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Bootlegged
05-23-2006, 12:44 PM
Why waste the time/energy and ruin these guys lives? It's obvious what's going on here...



Defense Sources: Duke Accuser Gave Conflicting Stories About Alleged Rape
Tuesday, May 23, 2006


DURHAM, N.C. — The woman who has accused three members of the Duke University lacrosse team of raping her at an off-campus party told investigators several different stories about the night of the alleged incident, sources close to the defense team representing the players have told FOX News.

The differing accounts are included in the 1,300 pages of evidence delivered to defense lawyers last week by Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong, the sources said.

Nifong had no immediate comment on the information said to be included in the documents. The information also has not been verified by police sources.

Meanwhile, the Durham Herald Sun reported Tuesday that medical records of the 27-year-old accuser suggest she might not have been tested for drugs or alcohol, according to a defense filing Monday. Defense lawyers for suspect Reade Seligmann say they were not given any toxicology reports by Nifong.

Nifong told a local Durham radio station that he turned over all the evidence he has and that he will hand over any new information to the defense when he gets it.

Seligmann, of Essex Falls, N.J., is one of three Duke lacrosse players who have been indicted in connection with the case. Sophomore Collin Finnerty of Garden City, N.Y., and senior David Evans of Bethesda, Md., also have been charged with first-degree charges of forcible rape, sexual offense and kidnapping. All players are proclaiming their innocence.

Regarding the 1,300 pages of evidence, sources told FOX News that the accuser allegedly did not tell the officer who met her at a supermarket after responding to a 911 call that she had been raped. Later, the woman told a doctor at a mental health facility that she had been sexually assaulted. She later denied that claim to a police officer when she arrived at the Duke hospital for care.

At least two sources also said there may be a discrepancy in the number of men the accuser says were involved.

The woman also originally claimed that a second dancer who accompanied her to the party, Kim Roberts, was inside the bathroom during the alleged rape, the sources said. The accuser claims she was assaulted and sodomized in that bathroom for about a half an hour and that she tried to fend off her attackers.

When police asked Roberts whether she was in the room at the time, Roberts reportedly told police, "that's a crock."

Defense sources also say the accuser admitted to having had sexual intercourse with at least three men around the time of the alleged attack. According to those sources, when investigators questioned her after DNA tests on the semen found inside her body did not match any of the Duke players, the accuser gave police the name of her boyfriend and two men who drove her to her dancing engagements.

The drivers say in police statements that they brought the accuser to at least five separate gigs the weekend before the alleged attack, defense sources said.

According to the sources, the papers handed over by Nifong also reveal that the forensic nurse who did a gynecological exam on the accuser did not find abrasions, tears or bleeding in the vaginal area, which is often present in forcible rapes. They say she did find swelling in the vaginal area along with tenderness in the accuser's breasts and lower right quadrant.

Several people described the accuser as being severely impaired on the night of the incident, with one of the first police officers to see her describing her as "passed out drunk." But some have suggested she may have been given a date-rape drug. Nifong apparently hinted at this possibility in a story published in Newsweek earlier this month.

The Durham Herald Sun reported Tuesday that the nurse who filled out a report on the physical exam given to the accuser indicated no toxicology tests were performed, according to the defense motion filed Monday by Seligmann's lawyers.

The lawyers said no toxicology information was contained in the 1,278 pages of data Nifong gave them last week. But if such a report exists, the lawyers said they have a right to see it and asked a judge to force Nifong to turn it over.

Nifong declined to comment to The Herald-Sun on this information.

But he told WRAL radio in Durham: "If there was a toxicology report available, it would've been included in the discovery I handed over to the defense."

Click here to read the WRAL story.

Seligmann's attorneys want a judge to order prosecutors in the case to provide any reports "generated from blood, urine or other biological samples" collected from the accuser.

FOX News' Megyn Kendall contributed to this report

go bowe
05-23-2006, 12:54 PM
if those guys actually forcibly raped and sodomized her for a half hour (just assume this for the sake of argument)...

then i don't care if she ****ed all of north carolina before going to the party, that doesn't give people a license to forcibly rape and sodomize anyone...

and i don't find her differing stories to be that big a deal, rape victims are often reluctant to admit to being raped and are often too traumatized to think straight...

but even if she lied about it a hundred times, that still wouldn't justify forcible rape...

i don't see anything in this article that would excuse such behavior, if it actually occured...

and, personally, i don't see anything here that makes it less likely that the victim is telling the truth about the rape...

but then i'm not going to be on the jury...

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 12:54 PM
The DA in this case should be shot for wasting tax payers money in order to promote himself.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 12:56 PM
if those guys actually forcibly raped and sodomized her for a half hour (just assume this for the sake of argument)...

then i don't care if she ****ed all of north carolina before going to the party, that doesn't give people a license to forcibly rape and sodomize anyone...

and i don't find her differing stories to be that big a deal, rape victims are often reluctant to admit to being raped and are often too traumatized to think straight...

but even if she lied about it a hundred times, that still wouldn't justify forcible rape...

i don't see anything in this article that would excuse such behavior, if it actually occured...

and, personally, i don't see anything here that makes it less likely that the victim is telling the truth about the rape...

but then i'm not going to be on the jury...

WOW, just WOW I don't know really what else to say.

Bootlegged
05-23-2006, 12:58 PM
if those guys actually forcibly raped and sodomized her for a half hour (just assume this for the sake of argument)...

then i don't care if she ****ed all of north carolina before going to the party, that doesn't give people a license to forcibly rape and sodomize anyone...

and i don't find her differing stories to be that big a deal, rape victims are often reluctant to admit to being raped and are often too traumatized to think straight...

but even if she lied about it a hundred times, that still wouldn't justify forcible rape...

i don't see anything in this article that would excuse such behavior, if it actually occured...

and, personally, i don't see anything here that makes it less likely that the victim is telling the truth about the rape...

but then i'm not going to be on the jury...

You don't see anything? Like the other hooker/stripper that even says her story isn't correct? Guess you can't see what you don't want to see...

Mile High Mania
05-23-2006, 12:59 PM
Someone can still be the sluttiest hooker known to mankind and be raped.

sedated
05-23-2006, 12:59 PM
I don't know which is the biggest load of sloppy horse-shit:

this case -OR- the media coverage of this case

Mile High Mania
05-23-2006, 01:00 PM
I'm not saying her story is legit, but none of us are equipped with enough facts on the case to say what did or did not happen.

Cochise
05-23-2006, 01:01 PM
Man, I have been to tons of bachelor parties, and we never get strippers like this.




(too tasteless? :p )

Stinger
05-23-2006, 01:04 PM
I'm not saying her story is legit, but none of us are equipped with enough facts on the case to say what did or did not happen.

:clap: Well said ..... I will let the facts of the case be brought out first.

Phobia
05-23-2006, 01:10 PM
Can you imagine getting some other guys junk on your junk? Yuck.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:11 PM
Someone can still be the sluttiest hooker known to mankind and be raped.

This sounds like the posts from the Kobe case.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:12 PM
:clap: Well said ..... I will let the facts of the case be brought out first.


I agree but it's not looking good for her right now. The prosecution looks like their really reaching on this case.

go bowe
05-23-2006, 01:13 PM
You don't see anything? Like the other hooker/stripper that even says her story isn't correct? Guess you can't see what you don't want to see...stories often get confused, usually because the victim is not thinking straight as a result of the emotional trauma...

and witness statements are often conflicting...

trials are messy things, usually...

not tidy well-organized things like you see on t.v.

life is a lot more complicated than "law and order"...

now, i haven't seen the evidence and i'm not saying the lacrosse players are guilty, but if they are, then these inconsistencies by themselves would not make me vote to acquit if i were on the jury...

i said, by themselves...

like i said, i haven't seen the evidence or heard testimony, so i don't know what actually happened...

Phobia
05-23-2006, 01:13 PM
According to the sources, the papers handed over by Nifong also reveal that the forensic nurse who did a gynecological exam on the accuser did not find abrasions, tears or bleeding in the vaginal area, which is often present in forcible rapes. They say she did find swelling in the vaginal area along with tenderness in the accuser's breasts and lower right quadrant.

This woman could deliver telephone poles on foot - of course there were no tears or abrasions.

Donger
05-23-2006, 01:15 PM
Can you imagine getting some other guys junk on your junk? Yuck.

No. In fact, I try to avoid genetic cocktails wherever possible.

4th and Long
05-23-2006, 01:21 PM
if those guys actually forcibly raped and sodomized her for a half hour (just assume this for the sake of argument)...

then i don't care if she ****ed all of north carolina before going to the party, that doesn't give people a license to forcibly rape and sodomize anyone...

and i don't find her differing stories to be that big a deal, rape victims are often reluctant to admit to being raped and are often too traumatized to think straight...

but even if she lied about it a hundred times, that still wouldn't justify forcible rape...

i don't see anything in this article that would excuse such behavior, if it actually occured...

and, personally, i don't see anything here that makes it less likely that the victim is telling the truth about the rape...

but then i'm not going to be on the jury...
Excuse me big guy but errrummm, .... innocent until proven guilty, and all that legal rot. Kapish?

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:26 PM
One of the problems now are these rape victim funds that were designed to help real victims are now being used by woman on the down and out to get free lodging, food and bunch of cash handed to them. This provides all the incentive many women need to accuse somebody. Kate Faber received 12k dollars from such funds in that case as an example.

dtebbe
05-23-2006, 01:27 PM
Can you imagine getting some other guys junk on your junk? Yuck.

You wussy.

go bowe
05-23-2006, 01:29 PM
Excuse me big guy but errrummm, .... innocent until proven guilty, and all that legal rot. Kapish?eh, that's just a fable that lawyers tell people...

how many accused [enter crime of choice] are ever found not guilty?

nearly all cases get plead out and very very few people are acquited at trial...

besides, i'm jealous if those guys got to do her and i didn't... :p :p :p

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:30 PM
Interesting Fox article :

False Rape Accusations May Be More Common Than Thought
Tuesday, May 02, 2006
By Wendy McElroy

August 17, 2005
Is it the new 1-in-4 statistic?

I don't mean the widely-circulated '1-in-4 women will be raped in their lifetime' but a statistic that suggests '1-in-4 accusations of rape are false.'

For a long time, I have been bothered by the elusiveness of figures on the prevalence of false accusations of sexual assault. The crime of 'bearing false witness' is rarely tracked or punished, and the context in which it is usually raised is highly politicized.

Politically correct feminists claim false rape accusations are rare and account for only 2 percent of all reports. Men's rights sites point to research that places the rate as high as 41 percent. These are wildly disparate figures that cannot be reconciled.

This week I stumbled over a passage in a 1996 study published by the U.S. Department of Justice: Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science: Case Studies in the Use of DNA Evidence to Establish Innocence After Trial.

The study documents 28 cases which, "with the exception of one young man of limited mental capacity who pleaded guilty," consist of individuals who were convicted by juries and, then, later exonerated by DNA tests.

At the time of release, they had each served an average of 7 years in prison.

The passage that riveted my attention was a quote from Peter Neufeld and Barry C. Scheck, prominent criminal attorneys and co-founders of the Innocence Project that seeks to release those falsely imprisoned.

They stated, "Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

The authors continued, "these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice's informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate."

If the foregoing results can be extrapolated, then the rate of false reports is roughly between 20 (if DNA excludes an accused) to 40 percent (if inconclusive DNA is added). The relatively low estimate of 25 to 26 percent is probably accurate, especially since it is supported by other sources.

Before analyzing the competing figures, however, caveats about the one just mentioned are necessary.

First, the category of 'false accusations' does not distinguish between accusers who lie and those who are honestly mistaken. Nor does it indicate that a rape did not occur, merely that the specific accused is innocent.

Thus, there is a drive by voices for reform, like the Innocence Institute, to improve eyewitness identification techniques within police departments.

For example, the Innocence Institute suggests "Police should use a 'double-blind' photo identification procedure where someone other than the investigator -- who does not know who the suspect is -- constructs photo arrays with non-suspects as fillers to reduce suggestiveness."

Second, even if false accusations are as common as 1-in-4, that means 75 percent of reports are probably accurate and, so, all accusations deserve a thorough and professional investigation.

Third, the 1-in-4 figure has 'fuzzy' aspects that could influence the results. For example, Neufeld and Scheck mention only sexual assault cases that were "referred to the FBI where results could be obtained."

It is not clear what percentage of all reported assaults are represented by those cases. As well, the terms 'rape' and 'sexual assault' are often used interchangeably, especially when comparing studies, and it is not clear that they are always synonyms for each other.

Nevertheless, the FBI data on excluded DNA is as close to hard statistics that I've found on the rate of false accusations of sexual assault.

Where do the other figures come from and why is there reason to doubt them? Let me consider the two statistics that I have encountered most often.

"Two percent of all reports are false."

Several years ago, I tried to track down the origin of this much-cited stat. The first instance I found of the figure was in Susan Brownmiller's book on sexual assault entitled "Against Our Will" (1975). Brownmiller claimed that false accusations in New York City had dropped to 2 percent after police departments began using policewomen to interview alleged victims.

Elsewhere, the two percent figure appears without citation or with only a vague attribution to "FBI" sources. Although the figure shows up in legislation such as the Violence Against Women Act, legal scholar Michelle Anderson of Villanova University Law School reported in 2004, "no study has ever been published which sets forth an evidentiary basis for the two percent false rape complaint thesis."

In short, there is no reason to credit that figure.

"Forty-one percent of all reports are false."

This claim comes from a study conducted by Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University. Kanin examined 109 rape complaints registered in a Midwestern city from 1978 to 1987.

Of these, 45 were ultimately classified by the police as "false." Also based on police records, Kanin determined that 50 percent of the rapes reported at two major universities were "false."

Although Kanin offers solid research, I would need to see more studies with different populations before accepting the figure of 50 percent as prevalent; to me, the figure seems high.

But even a skeptic like me must credit a DNA exclusion rate of 20 percent that remained constant over several years when conducted by FBI labs. This is especially true when 20 percent more were found to be questionable.

False accusations are not rare. They are common.

tk13
05-23-2006, 01:36 PM
I would bet there are a fair share of false accusations.

On the flip side to that, there are a lot of rape cases that go completely unreported. And I mean a lot. Which is just terrible.

BucEyedPea
05-23-2006, 01:40 PM
I would bet there are a fair share of false accusations.

On the flip side to that, there are a lot of rape cases that go completely unreported. And I mean a lot.


I think some of it may have to do with what rape means to men versus women. They think "no" means "yes." Some are so full of themselves they really think that.

bsp4444
05-23-2006, 01:44 PM
[QUOTE=go bo]
now, i haven't seen the evidence and i'm not saying the lacrosse players are guilty, but if they are, then these inconsistencies by themselves would not make me vote to acquit if i were on the jury...

QUOTE]

So guilty until proven innocent ?

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:49 PM
I would bet there are a fair share of false accusations.

On the flip side to that, there are a lot of rape cases that go completely unreported. And I mean a lot. Which is just terrible.

I agree.

I'm betting right now that this case never makes it to criminal court. The University doesn't like seeing their name in the headlines and either does the accused. They will offer her some cash and she will take off. It's unfortunate that things go down like that.

go bowe
05-23-2006, 01:49 PM
[QUOTE=go bo]
now, i haven't seen the evidence and i'm not saying the lacrosse players are guilty, but if they are, then these inconsistencies by themselves would not make me vote to acquit if i were on the jury...

QUOTE]

So guilty until proven innocent ?i said IF they are guilty...

as in other evidence establishes that they did in fact rape the stripper (like one of them rolling over on the other two, or other people at the party coming forward (either voluntarily or by subpoena) and corroborating the girl's story about the actual rape...

in the face of solid evidence like that, the inconsistencies in the girl's story would not be enough to make me vote to acquit...

of course, there may not be any solid evidence in this case, but something is making the prosecutor take on an unpopular case...

i don't see this as helping the prosecutor's career, in fact the exact opposite is more likely...

go bowe
05-23-2006, 01:52 PM
I agree.

I'm betting right now that this case never makes it to criminal court. The University doesn't like seeing their name in the headlines and either does the accused. They will offer her some cash and she will take off. It's unfortunate that things go down like that.isn't jesse jackson providing the girl's tuition or something?

but i agree that if the university does offer a substantial sum the girl would probably let it go, even if the rape did occur...

Baconeater
05-23-2006, 01:52 PM
I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and let it happen.[/Knight]

caoecod
05-23-2006, 01:53 PM
Was this her afterwards?
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__0000364021.jpg

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:54 PM
i don't see this as helping the prosecutor's career, in fact the exact opposite is more likely...

National headlines constantly can't hurt his career and it just got him re-elected. Please show me where this is hurting him.

4th and Long
05-23-2006, 01:56 PM
eh, that's just a fable that lawyers tell people...

how many accused [enter crime of choice] are ever found not guilty?
Hmmm .... :hmmm:

Well, just one, comes to mind, at the moment ...

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/other/2002/0226/photo/a_simpson_i.jpg
http://www.cnn.com/US/OJ/evidence/glove/ojglove2.jpg
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/OJGLOVE5.jpg
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/oj_gloves.jpg
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/provost/apit/ids/Media_Power/screenings/gr/oj-gloves.jpg

:p

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:57 PM
isn't jesse jackson providing the girl's tuition or something?

but i agree that if the university does offer a substantial sum the girl would probably let it go, even if the rape did occur...

50G's and she's gone even if it didn't occur. I am sure she is already receiving all kinds of stuff. Kind of makes a poor girl want to scream rape doesn't it?

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 01:57 PM
Was this her afterwards?
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__0000364021.jpg


I would pay her to leave.

go bowe
05-23-2006, 02:03 PM
National headlines constantly can't hurt his career and it just got him re-elected. Please show me where this is hurting him.you think a pending case got a prosecutor elected?

more likely it was his record as a whole prosecuting criminals...

and national headlines don't help him unless he is planning to write a book or run for national office, neither of which is likely imo...

and how would national headlines portraying him as an idiot for proceeding with this very unpopluar case be helpful to his career as a local prosecutor?

i think it hurts him with the large number of people who don't believe the girl's story...

judging by this thread, there seems to be a lot of people who don't believe her...

overall, i think proceeding with this case does not help the prosecutor at all unless he has a secret wish to be notorious and get his 15 minutes of fame...

my personal opinion is that he is simply doing his job based on the evidence he has and his legal analysis of the situation...

my guess is that all the national attention is unwanted by anybody in the case (with the possible exception of the girl if she really is lying)...

JohnnyV13
05-23-2006, 02:05 PM
This sounds like the posts from the Kobe case.

There's a difference, if you read the actual police transcript from their interview with Kobe its pretty damn clear that he did rape her.

What's pretty obvious is that the girl was quite willing to have sex with him, but that he wanted to cum in her face, she refused and then he forced her. And all of this is from his own admissions in his interview with police. He didn't admit he forced her, but its pretty damn obvious from the inteview that he did because at first he denies she ever said no...but after the police talk to him about cuming in her face Kobe says, "that's when she said no!".

In this case, its pure bs. GoBo..btw is on drugs. Of course all that evidence matters.

She had sex with 3 guys before---ummmm..that's where the semen came from, especially since they don't have DNA match with any of the duke players.

Changing the story goes to her credibility as a witness.

obvious compromised condition when contacting police. If she was hammered, she's more likely to lie b/c she's pissed off about being sexually assualted (getting her tit pinched or the like) and she elevates it to rape.

Prosecution explains the condition away as possible date rape drug, but then neglect the toxicology. At best, this is not good police proceedure. At worst, it the prosecution knowing she's screwed up and preventing any toxicology, b/c they fear it will damage their case.

Mile High Mania
05-23-2006, 02:05 PM
Was this her afterwards?
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__0000364021.jpg


Related??

http://imagesource2.art.com/images/-/Buckwheat-Note-Card-I12043339.jpeg

go bowe
05-23-2006, 02:08 PM
50G's and she's gone even if it didn't occur. I am sure she is already receiving all kinds of stuff. Kind of makes a poor girl want to scream rape doesn't it?hell, for 50g, I would go away...

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 02:08 PM
There's a difference, if you read the actual police transcript from their interview with Kobe its pretty damn clear that he did rape her.

What's pretty obvious is that the girl was quite willing to have sex with him, but that he wanted to cum in her face, she refused and then he forced her. And all of this is from his own admissions in his interview with police. He didn't admit he forced her, but its pretty damn obvious from the inteview that he did because at first he denies she ever said no...but after the police talk to him about cuming in her face Kobe says, "that's when she said no!".

In this case, its pure bs. GoBo..btw is on drugs. Of course all that evidence matters.

She had sex with 3 guys before---ummmm..that's where the semen came from, especially since they don't have DNA match with any of the duke players.

Changing the story goes to her credibility as a witness.

obvious compromised condition when contacting police. If she was hammered, she's more likely to lie b/c she's pissed off about being sexually assualted (getting her tit pinched or the like) and she elevates it to rape.

Prosecution explains the condition away as possible date rape drug, but then neglect the toxicology. At best, this is not good police proceedure. At worst, it the prosecution knowing she's screwed up and preventing any toxicology, b/c they fear it will damage their case.

Pulling out and having her say no as he gives her the money shot is now rape? :hmmm:

Having sex with another guy later that night and then bragging at a party about the size of his cock doesn't exactly sound like the act of rape victim to me.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 02:10 PM
hell, for 50g, I would go away...

Their attorneys will run more than that for each alleged victim and that doesn't even include civil court.

go bowe
05-23-2006, 02:12 PM
. . .GoBo..btw is on drugs. . .why yes, yes i am...

thank you for pointing that out to me... :D :D :D

go bowe
05-23-2006, 02:15 PM
Their attorneys will run more than that for each alleged victim and that doesn't even include civil court.no doubt...

duke has probably already spent that much investigating the alleged rape and i'm quite confident that the defense lawyers will make out very well...

it sucks, but that's the nature of our criminal justice system, which is remarkably ****ed up for having lasted this long...

Skip Towne
05-23-2006, 02:34 PM
hell, for 50g, I would go away...
For 100 G's you can be rid of both of us.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-23-2006, 04:09 PM
I've heard officers from other precincts say that if a hooker/stripper came in declaring rape the report wouldn't find anything but the trashcan. It's ok tho Nifong needs to get reelected so we should trash as many men as possible.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2006, 04:14 PM
I've heard officers from other precincts say that if a hooker/stripper came in declaring rape the report wouldn't find anything but the trashcan. It's ok tho Nifong needs to get reelected so we should trash as many men as possible.

Black vote. He got it and was re-elected. This case has already served it's purpose for him.

JohnnyV13
05-24-2006, 12:33 AM
Pulling out and having her say no as he gives her the money shot is now rape? :hmmm:

Having sex with another guy later that night and then bragging at a party about the size of his cock doesn't exactly sound like the act of rape victim to me.

Uhhhh...

Actually, yeah. Think of it this way. Lets suppose you go home with a girl and you have sex. Then she says, "I'd like to do you in the ass with a strap on". You refuse. She then pulls a gun and you bend over. She has an accomplice that then holds a gun to your head while she gets busy. That's rape.

Now, i highly doubt many men would report it, but legally that is rape. The reverse is also true.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 02:29 AM
I figure I'll wait until the trail to make any determinations on guilt or innocence. I'm not suprised to see knee jerk juries out here in lala land who have already tried the case without so much as hearing what the prosecution has to say. He's obviously got something because he's arrested three people, and you don't get arrests without probable cause.

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 03:57 AM
I figure I'll wait until the trail to make any determinations on guilt or innocence. I'm not suprised to see knee jerk juries out here in lala land who have already tried the case without so much as hearing what the prosecution has to say. He's obviously got something because he's arrested three people, and you don't get arrests without probable cause.


And gee what a shocker that this is your position......"I'll wait to see, but believe they're guilty because it suits my political position"

jspchief
05-24-2006, 06:45 AM
Uhhhh...

Actually, yeah. Think of it this way. Lets suppose you go home with a girl and you have sex. Then she says, "I'd like to do you in the ass with a strap on". You refuse. She then pulls a gun and you bend over. She has an accomplice that then holds a gun to your head while she gets busy. That's rape.

Now, i highly doubt many men would report it, but legally that is rape. The reverse is also true.Are you serious? You're trying to equate cumming in a girl's face with getting ass-f*cked at gunpoint? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 06:50 AM
I figure I'll wait until the trail to make any determinations on guilt or innocence. I'm not suprised to see knee jerk juries out here in lala land who have already tried the case without so much as hearing what the prosecution has to say. He's obviously got something because he's arrested three people, and you don't get arrests without probable cause.I agree that the opinions of the public are premature. But that's what the public does when they're fed bits and pieces of a criminal case. They form an opinion. It's not like being found guilty in the court of public opinion has any bearing on being found guilty in a court of law. It's just humans being human.

As for the "no arrests without probable cause", I think the woman's testimony could easily be considered probable cause. However, all the reports regarding concrete evidence favor the boys at this point, and every week her credibility becomes more and more questionable. I don't know if the boys are guilty or not, but based on what I've heard so far, I'd give 10:1 that they don't get convicted.

Count Zarth
05-24-2006, 07:10 AM
Can you imagine getting some other guys junk on your junk? Yuck.

That's hot! Just one big mass of genitals. YEAH! DVDA!

patteeu
05-24-2006, 08:13 AM
Uhhhh...

Actually, yeah. Think of it this way. Lets suppose you go home with a girl and you have sex. Then she says, "I'd like to do you in the ass with a strap on". You refuse. She then pulls a gun and you bend over. She has an accomplice that then holds a gun to your head while she gets busy. That's rape.

Now, i highly doubt many men would report it, but legally that is rape. The reverse is also true.

I don't know what Kobe was charged with, but what people normally think of as rape usually requires some type of penetration. In a very cursory review of Colorado criminal statutes, they distinguish between Sexual Assault (with penetration) and Sexual Contact (without). Both are illegal, but I'd imagine that when most people use the term "rape" they are thinking of the equivalent of Sexual Assault.

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 08:17 AM
Let's not forget that hooker #2 Kim Roberts confessed to making the 911 call - where she lied and said she was walking down the street and the Lacrosse team came out and yelled "******" at her.

Hmmm....why would someone make that up?


My guess as to what happened. Lacrosse guys want to party and someone calls a "dancer" service. These two show up and the guys are pissed......they don't want to pay to see this. They give the girls some shit, they start to leave, then they talk them into coming back in and say they'll be nice. Some drunks at the party probably call them names, tell them their ugly, whatever. Hookers demand their money and want to leave - Now their feelings are hurt and they want to get back at rich Whitey.....so lets call 911 and make up the N story. Lets also say I was raped - that will teach them. Story then explodes into national debate and hooker #1 is in over her head, but politically motivated DA sees a chance to cash in. He goes after players based on her testimony and little else, trying to seize the black vote to keep him employed for the next 4 years. And that about brings us up to speed....

KILLER_CLOWN
05-24-2006, 08:39 AM
Let's not forget that hooker #2 Kim Roberts confessed to making the 911 call - where she lied and said she was walking down the street and the Lacrosse team came out and yelled "******" at her.

Hmmm....why would someone make that up?


My guess as to what happened. Lacrosse guys want to party and someone calls a "dancer" service. These two show up and the guys are pissed......they don't want to pay to see this. They give the girls some shit, they start to leave, then they talk them into coming back in and say they'll be nice. Some drunks at the party probably call them names, tell them their ugly, whatever. Hookers demand their money and want to leave - Now their feelings are hurt and they want to get back at rich Whitey.....so lets call 911 and make up the N story. Lets also say I was raped - that will teach them. Story then explodes into national debate and hooker #1 is in over her head, but politically motivated DA sees a chance to cash in. He goes after players based on her testimony and little else, trying to seize the black vote to keep him employed for the next 4 years. And that about brings us up to speed....

Couldn't have said it better myself, what sucks is women who are actually raped will have a tougher time getting a conviction because of BS like this. They should extend the rape shield law to cover the charged until guilt or innocence is proven.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 08:57 AM
Given the limited amount of information Ive received, one of the most troubling things is the fact that all of the players were tested and none of their DNA was found on the victim. I dont know much about the forensics of rape, but I would assume that some kind of DNA would be found on the victim.

As I understand criminal cases, 'reasonable doubt' is all that's required for an acquittal and that alone could be enough, for me, to have reasonable doubt.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 09:33 AM
And gee what a shocker that this is your position......"I'll wait to see, but believe they're guilty because it suits my political position"



Political position? ROFL

Heh. Nobody here ever accused Lattimer of being altogether bright... Now did they?

How in the world does my political position come into play in this case?

I'm not assuming guilt or innocence. The only thing I'm assuming is that it takes probable cause to obtain an arrest warrant. Is this an incorrect assumption?

Duck Dog
05-24-2006, 09:41 AM
Given the limited amount of information Ive received, one of the most troubling things is the fact that all of the players were tested and none of their DNA was found on the victim. I dont know much about the forensics of rape, but I would assume that some kind of DNA would be found on the victim.

As I understand criminal cases, 'reasonable doubt' is all that's required for an acquittal and that alone could be enough, for me, to have reasonable doubt.


Somebody will be along soon to remind you that in something like 80% of rape cases there isn't any DNA evidence. Which tells me two things; either the woman washed it all away before reporting the rape or she's lying her ass off.

bkkcoh
05-24-2006, 09:48 AM
I figure I'll wait until the trail to make any determinations on guilt or innocence. I'm not suprised to see knee jerk juries out here in lala land who have already tried the case without so much as hearing what the prosecution has to say. He's obviously got something because he's arrested three people, and you don't get arrests without probable cause.


That really isn't the case TJ, I am sure there are cases that a grand jury says there is enough evidence to go forward with the charges, but when the entire story was told, the evidence wasn't totally correct.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 09:49 AM
Somebody will be along soon to remind you that in something like 80% of rape cases there isn't any DNA evidence. Which tells me two things; either the woman washed it all away before reporting the rape or she's lying her ass off.


What kind of dumb**** rapes a girl, and then blows his load in her? I mean, really?

You have to be pretty slow and stupid to leave that kind of evidence behind.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 09:50 AM
Uhhhh...

Actually, yeah. Think of it this way. Lets suppose you go home with a girl and you have sex. Then she says, "I'd like to do you in the ass with a strap on". You refuse. She then pulls a gun and you bend over. She has an accomplice that then holds a gun to your head while she gets busy. That's rape.

Now, i highly doubt many men would report it, but legally that is rape. The reverse is also true.

Stop, you're killing me. ROFL

Brock
05-24-2006, 09:54 AM
What kind of dumb**** rapes a girl, and then blows his load in her? I mean, really?

You have to be pretty slow and stupid to leave that kind of evidence behind.

Yeah, because it's not like you leave DNA behind whether you "blow your load" in her or not. :rolleyes:

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 10:00 AM
Yeah, because it's not like you leave DNA behind whether you "blow your load" in her or not. :rolleyes:

Nobody ever accused that fat phuk Taco of being bright.

bkkcoh
05-24-2006, 10:03 AM
What kind of dumb**** rapes a girl, and then blows his load in her? I mean, really?

You have to be pretty slow and stupid to leave that kind of evidence behind.



Nope, I would think that you would have to be 'too quick' to leave some of that type of evidence....... :shake:

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 10:13 AM
What kind of dumb**** rapes a girl, and then blows his load in her? I mean, really?

You have to be pretty slow and stupid to leave that kind of evidence behind.

Maybe they just had a hard time finding it amoungst the other 3 guys cum she has dripping out of her snatch.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 10:13 AM
Nobody ever accused that fat phuk Taco of being bright.



awwww.... Did widdle Wattimer get his feewings huwt?

A good strategy might be to call me names, rather than making a point. That'll make you look really smart! :drool:

ChiefButthurt
05-24-2006, 10:14 AM
Someone can still be the sluttiest hooker known to mankind and be raped.


Especially if she raised her price in the middle of the rape.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 10:14 AM
Let's not forget that hooker #2 Kim Roberts confessed to making the 911 call - where she lied and said she was walking down the street and the Lacrosse team came out and yelled "******" at her.

Hmmm....why would someone make that up?


My guess as to what happened. Lacrosse guys want to party and someone calls a "dancer" service. These two show up and the guys are pissed......they don't want to pay to see this. They give the girls some shit, they start to leave, then they talk them into coming back in and say they'll be nice. Some drunks at the party probably call them names, tell them their ugly, whatever. Hookers demand their money and want to leave - Now their feelings are hurt and they want to get back at rich Whitey.....so lets call 911 and make up the N story. Lets also say I was raped - that will teach them. Story then explodes into national debate and hooker #1 is in over her head, but politically motivated DA sees a chance to cash in. He goes after players based on her testimony and little else, trying to seize the black vote to keep him employed for the next 4 years. And that about brings us up to speed....

Probably a very good call.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 10:19 AM
Maybe they just had a hard time finding it amoungst the other 3 guys cum she has dripping out of her snatch.



Maybe. Like I said. I'm not making any judgement on guilt or innocence. I'm just guessing that the DA isn't making things up as he goes along and figure he'll present that case when it goes to trial. I understand that the impatient public is dying to try the case themselves in their heads. I also understand that the DA has no obligation to talk to the media about his case before he goes to court with it.

If we want to play the guessing game, I'd guess that there is a Duke player who is cooperating with the prosecution and the prosecution is protecting his witness. But that's a shot in the dark. And since everybody else is doing it...

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:22 AM
Maybe. Like I said. I'm not making any judgement on guilt or innocence. I'm just guessing that the DA isn't making things up as he goes along and figure he'll present that case when it goes to trial. I understand that the impatient public is dying to try the case themselves in their heads. I also understand that the DA has no obligation to talk to the media about his case before he goes to court with it.

If we want to play the guessing game, I'd guess that there is a Duke player who is cooperating with the prosecution and the prosecution is protecting his witness. But that's a shot in the dark. But since everybody else is doing it...Difference being that some guesses are based off things said in press conferences from the prosecutor and defense, and you guess is based off of something you just pulled from your ass.

But yea, they are both guesses.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 10:27 AM
If we want to play the guessing game, I'd guess that there is a Duke player who is cooperating with the prosecution and the prosecution is protecting his witness. But that's a shot in the dark. And since everybody else is doing it...

Not being a lawyer, but I think that violates Discovery. Doesnt the prosecution have to identify their witnesses to the defense?

Taco John
05-24-2006, 10:27 AM
Difference being that some guesses are based off things said in press conferences from the prosecutor and defense, and you guess is based off of something you just pulled from your ass.

But yea, they are both guesses.


Actually, my guess is based off of something Greta said... So I guess I pulled it out of her ass... :rolleyes:

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:28 AM
Not being a lawyer, but I think that violates Discovery. Doesnt the prosecution have to identify their witnesses to the defense?Yes, but that doesn't mean he has to annouce it to the public.

And there's no reason for the defense to make it public, because it only hurts their case.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 10:30 AM
Yes, but that doesn't mean he has to annouce it to the public.

And there's no reason for the defense to make it public, because it only hurts their case.

No, I guess that's true...but given the amount of media attention, I highly doubt that would stay secret for long.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:33 AM
Actually, my guess is based off of something Greta said... So I guess I pulled it out of her ass... :rolleyes:Greta who?

And is there any reason she has inside knowledge of the prosecutor's evidence?

Taco John
05-24-2006, 10:35 AM
Greta who?

And is there any reason she has inside knowledge of the prosecutor's evidence?


ROFL Jesus, dude...

Out of touch much?

Brock
05-24-2006, 10:36 AM
Greta who?

And is there any reason she has inside knowledge of the prosecutor's evidence?

I'm waiting for Nancy Grace's "expert" opinion.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:37 AM
ROFL Jesus, dude...

Out of touch much?Apparently I am. The only Greta I know of is Greta Van Susteren.

So who is Greta and what's her connection?

Taco John
05-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Apparently I am. The only Greta I know of is Greta Van Susteren.

So who is Greta and what's her connection?


:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


Yeah. She's a legal analyst with Fox. Her connection is that she's a legal analyst with Fox.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:46 AM
:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


Yeah. She's a legal analyst with Fox. Her connection is that she's a legal analyst with Fox.So she pulled it out of her ass.

Seriously, is there any particular reason that should be seen as anything other than someone taking a guess? Do you think her job dictates that her guesses are more credible?

To the point, all us armchair jurors are speculating based on the evidence that has been made public. What is Greta and your speculation based on?

Brock
05-24-2006, 10:48 AM
Apparently I am. The only Greta I know of is Greta Van Susteren.

You too can sit on your ass and watch TV all evening. Only then can you truly be informed about who boned the stripper.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:52 AM
You too can sit on your ass and watch TV all evening. Only then can you truly be informed about who boned the stripper.Yea, I'm not sure what was so funny about me not realizing he was referencing a TV show. I guess he assumes we all watch that show or something.

Those people sit around and make guesses on directions the case can go. I'm just curious if Greta has anything to back up this notion of a witness from the party.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 10:55 AM
So she pulled it out of her ass.

Seriously, is there any particular reason that should be seen as anything other than someone taking a guess? Do you think her job dictates that her guesses are more credible?

To the point, all us armchair jurors are speculating based on the evidence that has been made public. What is Greta and your speculation based on?



Certainly she doesn't have the clout of jsp, Brock and Lattimer at Chiefs Planet. But I'm going to go ahead and take her guesses as a smidge more credible anyways... mmmkay?

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 10:57 AM
awwww.... Did widdle Wattimer get his feewings huwt?

A good strategy might be to call me names, rather than making a point. That'll make you look really smart! :drool:

--------------------------------
Originally posted by Tons of Fun
"Political position?

Heh. Nobody here ever accused Lattimer of being altogether bright... Now did they?

How in the world does my political position come into play in this case?

I'm not assuming guilt or innocence. The only thing I'm assuming is that it takes probable cause to obtain an arrest warrant. Is this an incorrect assumption?"
--------------------------------


Ha. A strategy taken by the greatest Internet consipracy theorist of all-time.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 10:58 AM
Certainly she doesn't have the clout of jsp, Brock and Lattimer at Chiefs Planet. But I'm going to go ahead and take her guesses as a smidge more credible anyways... mmmkay?So you're saying that she has nothing to back up her guess? Did she provide any reasoning behind her speculation?

I love the path of this thread. I can almost feel you squirming.

Brock
05-24-2006, 11:04 AM
Certainly she doesn't have the clout of jsp, Brock and Lattimer at Chiefs Planet. But I'm going to go ahead and take her guesses as a smidge more credible anyways... mmmkay?

I don't claim to have any more cred on this topic than anyone else.

You do, by virtue of watching one of the 50 cable news shows that beat this stuff to death.

Ridiculous, as usual. Of course, you could simply back up what you say with a link. I won't hold my breath.....mmmkay?

Brock
05-24-2006, 11:13 AM
What could the DA possibly have in his file that we don't know about? I keep trying to imagine what he could have that we don't know about. If he has DNA, he is required to surrender that info. If he has witnesses, I bet the discovery rules requires that he disclose that to the defense in discovery.

What else could he have that could be relevant? During a commercial break my crew and I tried guessing. My stage manager suggested that maybe a fellow lacrosse player is helping the DA? A cell phone video or pic corroborates? Both are possible and could help the DA, but thus far we have not heard of the existence of a witness or cell phone pic. These are just guesses.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196785,00.html

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Dartgod
05-24-2006, 11:14 AM
Certainly she doesn't have the clout of jsp, Brock and Lattimer at Chiefs Planet. But I'm going to go ahead and take her guesses as a smidge more credible anyways... mmmkay?
It's no different than any number of NFL analysts (Prisco, Pastabelli, Clayton, Kiper, etc.) speculating on the draft or any other matter related to the NFL.

We all know how often they're right, no? :rolleyes:

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 11:15 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196785,00.html

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Nice.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 11:15 AM
So you're saying that she has nothing to back up her guess? Did she provide any reasoning behind her speculation?

I love the path of this thread. I can almost feel you squirming.



Squirming!? Are you serious? Squirming? You honestly think I care enough about this to squirm over this? ROFL ROFL ROFL

I'm content to let this go to prosecution and let the jury figure it out. But as Greta alluded to, the prosecution has no obligation to talk to the press, and given the state of the evidence that is out in the press, you'd have to think that the DA has something in his favor that he's not yet sharing with the public at large. Given the high profile of this case, I can't say I blame the prosecution for playing it close to the vest.

Dartgod
05-24-2006, 11:17 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196785,00.html

ROFL ROFL ROFL
Wow. One could easily write that same exact article using the posts on this thread as source material. Nice find, Brock.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 11:23 AM
But I'm going to go ahead and take her guesses as a smidge more credible anyways... mmmkay?

jspchief
05-24-2006, 11:23 AM
Squirming!? Are you serious? Squirming? You honestly think I care enough about this to squirm over this? ROFL ROFL ROFL

I'm content to let this go to prosecution and let the jury figure it out. But as Greta alluded to, the prosecution has no obligation to talk to the press, and given the state of the evidence that is out in the press, you'd have to think that the DA has something in his favor that he's not yet sharing with the public at large. Given the high profile of this case, I can't say I blame the prosecution for playing it close to the vest.All I know is you seemed to ridicule the idea that I question the credibility of Greta Van Susteren, yet I've asked you numerous times if she had anything to back up her opinion and you refuse to answer the question, trying to deflect by trying make an issue out of me not knowing who "Greta" is.

You could have just said "no, she was guessing" 10 posts ago and saved yourself all the squirming and deflection.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 11:31 AM
All I know is you seemed to ridicule the idea that I question the credibility of Greta Van Susteren, yet I've asked you numerous times if she had anything to back up her opinion and you refuse to answer the question, trying to deflect by trying make an issue out of me not knowing who "Greta" is.

You could have just said "no, she was guessing" 10 posts ago and saved yourself all the squirming and deflection.



Wow. You're usually not this dull... You just posted number 91... Why don't you go back... oh about 10 posts ago (Post #81)... And tell me what it says there?

ROFL ROFL :drool: :drool:

Taco John
05-24-2006, 11:35 AM
I love this pooh-poohing of analysis from a television show. I'm certain that Greta from Fox doesn't have nearly the clout and expertise of Lattimer from some Internet Message Board... But I'm going to go ahead and consider it more qualified anyways...

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 11:42 AM
I love this pooh-poohing of analysis from a television show. I'm certain that Greta from Fox doesn't have nearly the clout and expertise of Lattimer from some Internet Message Board... But I'm going to go ahead and consider it more qualified anyways...


Wow - you really seem to be smitten with me. What's wrong, Zach not around to tickle your O-ring?

jspchief
05-24-2006, 11:42 AM
Wow. You're usually not this dull... You just posted number 91... Why don't you go back... oh about 10 posts ago (Post #81)... And tell me what it says there?

ROFL ROFL :drool: :drool:So that takes us back to my original point. Those of us guessing here on CP are making those guesses based on the evidence provided. What is Greta's guess based on?


You're basically saying because she gets paid to guess, you think she's more credible than an opinion based on the facts at hand.

Hell, based on the link Brock provided, it sounded like Greta agrees with us. They have to sit around and brainstorm to try and come up with what else the prosecutor might have, because what he has right now can be described as "pathetic".

jesus Taco, your own special TV expert agrees with all of us. How much more stupid can you make yourself look today?

{insert multiple smiles here, in place of intelligent response}

jspchief
05-24-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm certain that Greta from Fox doesn't have nearly the clout and expertise of Lattimer from some Internet Message Board... But I'm going to go ahead and consider it more qualified anyways...

Ordinarily I am willing to "wait and see" since a DA can have evidence we don't know about — but in this case, the DA — per the North Carolina rules — has turned over all his evidence to the defense (called discovery) and it seems, at best, pathetic.

Your "more qualified" expert just agreed with all us dopes that the DA doesn't have shit.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 11:49 AM
So that takes us back to my original point. Those of us guessing here on CP are making those guesses based on the evidence provided. What is Greta's guess based on?


You're basically saying because she gets paid to guess, you think she's more credible than an opinion based on the facts at hand.

Hell, based on the link Brock provided, it sounded like Greta agrees with us. They have to sit around and brainstorm to try and come up with what else the prosecutor might have, because what he has right now can be described as "pathetic".

jesus Taco, your own special TV expert agrees with all of us. How much more stupid can you make yourself look today?

{insert multiple smiles here, in place of intelligent response}


Like I've said all along... I'm content to let the prosecution go forward and present their case and let the jury decide. I make no judgements on innocent and guilty. If these guys are guilty, I hope they get the book thrown at them. If they're innocent, I hope the girl gets taken for everything she's worth and then some.

I'm unimpressed with people making guesses based on the facts at hand, given the fact that nobody here knows if they even HAVE the facts at hand. I realize that arguing against a bunch of self important people who think they know it all is a losing proposition. But at the very least, it's good for some laughs.

Brock
05-24-2006, 11:50 AM
Ordinarily I am willing to "wait and see" since a DA can have evidence we don't know about — but in this case, the DA — per the North Carolina rules — has turned over all his evidence to the defense (called discovery) and it seems, at best, pathetic.

Your "more qualified" expert just agreed with all us dopes that the DA doesn't have shit.


ROFL

Taco John
05-24-2006, 11:59 AM
[i]
Your "more qualified" expert just agreed with all us dopes that the DA doesn't have shit.


Actually, that's not what she said at all... She *did* say that the information that is currently available in the public is dubious at best. She also said that the prosecution isn't obligated to talk with the media about what he does and doesn't have. In her sense of fairness, she thinks that the prosecution should act quickly to clear these boys names if there isn't more evidence than what is currently out there... All of which are points that I agree with her on.

Given the prosecutor hasn't moved in that direction, and given that the prosecutor has instead moved in the opposite direction and implicated a third person in the case and promised to move this trail forward, we're left with nothing but guesses at this point... That's all fine and good, we can guess until the cows come home. It won't matter until the evidence is presented to a jury. I'm content to let the prosecution try the case in court and let the jury decide. Obviously, the prosecution thinks he's got something, or he wouldn't be pressing charges. Surely we can find some common ground on this point.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:03 PM
Actually, that's not what she said at all... She *did* say that the information that is currently available in the public is dubious at best. She also said that the prosecution isn't obligated to talk with the media about what he does and doesn't have. In her sense of fairness, she thinks that the prosecution should act quickly to clear these boys names if there isn't more evidence than what is currently out there... All of which are points that I agree with her on.

Given the prosecutor hasn't moved in that direction, and given that the prosecutor has instead moved in the opposite direction and implicated a third person in the case and promised to move this trail forward, we're left with nothing but guesses at this point... That's all fine and good, we can guess until the cows come home. It won't matter until the evidence is presented to a jury. I'm content to let the prosecution try the case in court and let the jury decide. Obviously, the prosecution thinks he's got something, or he wouldn't be pressing charges. Surely we can find some common ground on this point.

It's good to know this prosecutor is not politically motivated

jspchief
05-24-2006, 12:07 PM
Actually, that's not what she said at all... She *did* say that the information that is currently available in the public is dubious at best. She also said that the prosecution isn't obligated to talk with the media about what he does and doesn't have. In her sense of fairness, she thinks that the prosecution should act quickly to clear these boys names if there isn't more evidence than what is currently out there... All of which are points that I agree with her on.

Given the prosecutor hasn't moved in that direction, and given that the prosecutor has instead moved in the opposite direction and implicated a third person in the case and promised to move this trail forward, we're left with nothing but guesses at this point... That's all fine and good, we can guess until the cows come home. It won't matter until the evidence is presented to a jury. I'm content to let the prosecution try the case in court and let the jury decide. Obviously, the prosecution thinks he's got something, or he wouldn't be pressing charges. Surely we can find some common ground on this point.I'm content to let the jury decide as well. That doesn't mean I won't form my own opinion in the meantime. Like I said in my first post, that's just human nature. It's not like it has any bearing on the real trial.

But I think there are a lot of questionable things going on. The most prominent being the prosecutor's scheduling the trial for almost a year from now. That seems like an incredible lack of justice. If the DA truly believes these guys are rapists, why let them run the streets for another year? It just seems like he's grasping at straws, and may be using his power to get at these kids even if he knows he can't convict them.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 12:18 PM
I'm content to let the jury decide as well. That doesn't mean I won't form my own opinion in the meantime. Like I said in my first post, that's just human nature. It's not like it has any bearing on the real trial.

But I think there are a lot of questionable things going on. The most prominent being the prosecutor's scheduling the trial for almost a year from now. That seems like an incredible lack of justice. If the DA truly believes these guys are rapists, why let them run the streets for another year? It just seems like he's grasping at straws, and may be using his power to get at these kids even if he knows he can't convict them.

Seems to me the DA just likes seeing his name in lights. Time will tell. Being a betting man though I say this never reaches trial.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:19 PM
It's good to know this prosecutor is not politically motivated


Who said he was or wasn't? I'm not sure what you think the prosecutor is getting out of this by way of politics. Seems like he's committing political suicide if you ask me... But I'm not too concerned about the politics around this case. Politics have a funny way of working themselves out.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:21 PM
I'm content to let the jury decide as well. That doesn't mean I won't form my own opinion in the meantime. Like I said in my first post, that's just human nature. It's not like it has any bearing on the real trial.

But I think there are a lot of questionable things going on. The most prominent being the prosecutor's scheduling the trial for almost a year from now. That seems like an incredible lack of justice. If the DA truly believes these guys are rapists, why let them run the streets for another year? It just seems like he's grasping at straws, and may be using his power to get at these kids even if he knows he can't convict them.



Well, I'm going off the assumption that the prosecutor isn't just trying to screw over innocent people just because he can. Maybe that's a reach.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:23 PM
Who said he was or wasn't? I'm not sure what you think the prosecutor is getting out of this by way of politics. Seems like he's committing political suicide if you ask me... But I'm not too concerned about the politics around this case. Politics have a funny way of working themselves out.

You put a lot of faith in the prosecutor, so it's no suprise you dismiss any other motivation than the purest of intentions. The students at the school are not constituents, so no, it's not political suicide.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:28 PM
I'm content to let the jury decide as well. That doesn't mean I won't form my own opinion in the meantime. Like I said in my first post, that's just human nature. It's not like it has any bearing on the real trial.



Also, you're more than welcome to form your own opinion. I'm not here to stop you from doing that. My opinion is on the face of things, the fellas look innocent. That said, I fully acknowledge that I don't have all the facts at hand, despite what things look like prima facie. And since I don't have the facts, and since the prosecution insists on moving forward with the case despite how things look on the surface, I'm content to let my opinion take a back seat to the process.

As far as the trail being over a year from now, I think that lends credibility to the claim that there is someone on the inside working for the prosecution, and the DA is using that time to use his insider to gather more evidene. Who knows? I guess the prosecution knows, and they're playing it close to the vest. I can either believe that he's trying to viciously screw over some good upstanding innocent kids, or that he's working to protect the innocent.

Brock
05-24-2006, 12:31 PM
As far as the trail being over a year from now, I think that lends credibility to the claim that there is someone on the inside working for the prosecution, and the DA is using that time to use his insider to gather more evidene.

Either that or more time to figure out a way to back down gracefully.

jspchief
05-24-2006, 12:33 PM
Well, I'm going off the assumption that the prosecutor isn't just trying to screw over innocent people just because he can. Maybe that's a reach.
Why has the trial been put off for a year? If you can find anyone that has given legit reasoning for this, I'll entertain that the DA might have a better case than it appears.

I think he got stuck with a case that put a ton of public pressure on him to resolve. Now he's unwilling to accept that he may have been duped by the girl. His hardline approach probably gained him votes, but he's going to be crucified by the black voters if he backs down post election.

Besides, this wouldn't be the first time that a DA's bias blinded him from facts that pointed elsewhere. I'm not saying he's screwing these kids out of spite, just that he may not have his head screwed on straight in this case.

Regardless of how he proceeds, I think he's ruined. If it goes to trial, he's going to get his ass kicked, and if he drops it, he'll get slaughtered by his constituency.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:34 PM
You put a lot of faith in the prosecutor, so it's no suprise you dismiss any other motivation than the purest of intentions. The students at the school are not constituents, so no, it's not political suicide.


Is there any reason I should not put faith in the prosecutor? I haven't heard of a valid reason to doubt the prosecutors motivations yet. Do you have a reason that might be valid for calling into question the integrity of this person? Or are you just guessing like everybody else?

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:34 PM
Either that or more time to figure out a way to back down gracefully.

or the short term memory of the general public...

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:38 PM
Is there any reason I should not put faith in the prosecutor? I haven't heard of a valid reason to doubt the prosecutors motivations yet. Do you have a reason that might be valid for calling into question the integrity of this person? Or are you just guessing like everybody else?

I think it unwise not to question all things with regard to this or any situation. Clearly, there are political motivation involved--the majority of the DA's consituents are black and the accused are white and he was up for re-election. This does not even get into the whole 'class' thing--constituents poor, students rich.

Again, these are not guesses, they are public facts, like the DNA thing. Guesses and faith have been what you've been entertaining.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:39 PM
Obviously, the prosecution thinks he's got something, or he wouldn't be pressing charges. Surely we can find some common ground on this point.



You never answered my question. Do you think it's safe to assume that the prosecutor thinks he's got something or wouldn't be pressing charges?

Or do you believe the prosecutor isn't interested in justice so much as he's interested in politics?

Given that we're making snap judgements based on the seat of our pants, I was hoping I could get a response from you on this.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:46 PM
I think it unwise not to question all things with regard to this or any situation. Clearly, there are political motivation involved--the majority of the DA's consituents are black and the accused are white and he was up for re-election. This does not even get into the whole 'class' thing--constituents poor, students rich.

Again, these are not guesses, they are public facts, like the DNA thing. Guesses and faith have been what you've been entertaining.



Guesses is all any of us have, regardless. You're guessing that it's politically motivated. I'm guessing that the prosecutor would be smarter than that.

I take rape very seriously, knowing women who have suffered from it. I'm content to let the prosecutor take this case to trial and let the evidence speak for itself. If the woman is lying, she'll have her own day to meet with justice. I'm making no judgements on the guilt or innocence of these fellas, except to say that I don't believe the prosecutor believes them to be innocent. If he did, I don't believe he'd be going to trial with the case. Given that he's moving to trial, I'm content to let it be sorted out there. So when you say that guesses is all I've been entertaining, you're wrong. The only thing I'm entertaining is that we don't have all of the information at hand, and that it will all be sorted out in trial.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:51 PM
Guesses is all any of us have, regardless. You're guessing that it's politically motivated. I'm guessing that the prosecutor would be smarter than that.

I take rape very seriously, knowing women who have suffered from it. I'm content to let the prosecutor take this case to trial and let the evidence speak for itself. If the woman is lying, she'll have her own day to meet with justice. I'm making no judgements on the guilt or innocence of these fellas, except to say that I don't believe the prosecutor believes them to be innocent. If he did, I don't believe he'd be going to trial with the case. Given that he's moving to trial, I'm content to let it be sorted out there. So when you say that guesses is all I've been entertaining, you're wrong. The only thing I'm entertaining is that we don't have all of the information at hand, and that it will all be sorted out in trial.

Nonsense...there WAS political pressure on the DA to move fast.

Your mea culpa and semantics play aside, no one has said once that it's a travesty that they've been charged, just that the case appears to be a bit henke thus far.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:51 PM
I think it unwise not to question all things with regard to this or any situation.


If that were true, then I'd think you'd be making the case for balance and letting the process of the American Legal System take it's due course. As it is, you seem to think it's only wise to question things that make the prosecution look like anything but vindictive scum out to smear the name of innocent, upstanding white boys.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:53 PM
If that were true, then I'd think you'd be making the case for balance and letting the process of the American Legal System take it's due course. As it is, you seem to think it's only wise to question things that make the prosecution look like anything but vindictive scum out to smear the name of innocent, upstanding white boys.

ROFL

Oh, go ahead...call me a racist...I know you want to.

bkkcoh
05-24-2006, 12:54 PM
Is there any reason I should not put faith in the prosecutor? ..

Yeah, he is an elected official up for re-election. That is enough for me not to believe him......

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:54 PM
Your mea culpa and semantics play aside, no one has said once that it's a travesty that they've been charged, just that the case appears to be a bit henke thus far.


ROFL ROFL Right... I don't know what to say to that except you seem to be good at seeing what you want to see, and ignoring what you want to ignore. This whole thread is based on exactly what you just said nobody is doing...

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 12:56 PM
ROFL ROFL Right... I don't know what to say to that except you seem to be good at seeing what you want to see, and ignoring what you want to ignore. This whole thread is based on exactly what you just said nobody is doing...

Find any of my posts where I stated as much...I'll wait Ive got time.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:57 PM
ROFL

Oh, go ahead...call me a racist...I know you want to.


*spitting Coke on my keyboard* ROFL

Jesus! How did you all of a sudden become the victim here! :rolleyes:

Ok, Tits. You're a racist. I'm not sure why you wanted me to call you that, but clearly you want to be cast as a sympathetic soul who is being unfairly branded, and read into my statements things that aren't there... I'm more than happy to oblige you.

Anything else you care for me to call you? Dopey? Fat? You name it. I aim to please.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 12:59 PM
Find any of my posts where I stated as much...I'll wait Ive got time.



How in the hell did you turn this into something that is all about you. ROFL

Thanks for dying for our sins and all Titus. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who appreciates that.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 01:02 PM
How in the hell did you turn this into something that is all about you. ROFL

Thanks for dying for our sins and all Titus. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who appreciates that.

Im having a hard time following you now...I guess when your arguments and semantics games break down, you go into absurdity and nonsense.

Fair enough. It was fun reading and refuting your 'I know better than you' MO once again.

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 01:03 PM
No political aspect to this....none at all.


Duke players not yet cleared


By Los Angeles Times
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:06 AM EDT



DURHAM, N.C. - A day after initial tests found no DNA evidence linking any of 46 Duke University lacrosse players to an alleged gang rape at a team party, the district attorney investigating the case told an emotional and sometimes angry gathering of residents that he remained confident about bringing charges.

The prosecutor said further tests are being conducted and confirmed that he is focusing on three players he believes assaulted an exotic dancer hired to perform at the party.

“A lot has been said in the press, particularly by some attorneys yesterday, that this case should go away,” District Attorney Mike Nifong said during a public forum at nearby North Carolina Central University. “My presence here means this case is not going away.”
On Tuesday morning, less than 24 hours after the test results were announced, several hundred residents and students - most of them black - gathered in a basketball gymnasium to ask questions of a panel headed by Nifong and Mayor Bill Bell.

The accuser is a 27-year-old student at the traditionally black school


The crowd applauded as Nifong played down the test results, saying: “You know, I've been doing this a long time, and for most of the years I've been doing this we didn't have DNA.”

But the mood turned more hostile when a community leader asked why almost a month had passed since the March 13 incident with no arrests.

“I know people who have gone to jail for being accused of rape,” said Bishop John Bennett, pastor of a Durham church. “In minutes, they're in handcuffs.”

According to court documents, the accuser told police that when she and another exotic dancer began their routine at an off-campus house shared by the lacrosse team's co-captains, players became “excited and aggressive.” The dancers left, but one of the men persuaded them to go back inside.



Shortly afterward, the accuser said she was pulled into a bathroom, held by her arms and legs and raped by three men for about 30 minutes.

Partygoers could be heard uttering racial slurs during the evening, according to additional information released by authorities and interviews with neighbors. It also was revealed that a player later e-mailed teammates suggesting they hire strippers for another party and that he would kill them and skin them.

Last week, the university suspended the player, canceled the remainder of the season and accepted the resignation of Coach Mike Pressler.

In the meantime, authorities had asked 46 members of the team to provide DNA samples. A 47th player was not asked to participate because he is black and the accuser told police her attackers were white.

Several people who attended Tuesday's meeting suggested that if North Carolina Central's black basketball players were suspected of gang raping a white Duke student, they would be - as one speaker put it - “waiting on DNA (results) in jail.”

Nifong responded that he could not arrest all 46 Duke players and had not narrowed the focus to three suspects until last week. He declined to identify the three, saying further investigation was required.

Kerry Sutton, one of several attorneys representing the players, said she met with Nifong on Tuesday morning but declined to comment further.

“I think the district attorney is proceeding cautiously in this case,” deputy police chief Ron Hodge said. “He probably has no choice. ... I's high-profile.”

Residents expressed their anger at the media for publishing the accuser's criminal record - she reportedly pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts related to stealing a taxi in 2002 - and for the way in which Durham has been portrayed as blue collar, if not poor.

In fact, the city is a curious mix of low-income neighborhoods surrounded by thriving suburbs. Research Triangle Park, much of which lies within city limits, features large corporate offices set amid pinelands.

But the crux of Tuesday's meeting centered on a tug-of-war between Nifong asking for patience and residents expressing doubts about his handling of the investigation

Bootlegged
05-24-2006, 01:05 PM
"The reason that I took this case is because this case says something about Durham that I’m not going to let be said," said Nifong. "I'm not going to allow Durham's view in the minds of the world to be a bunch of lacrosse players at Duke raping a black girl from Durham."

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 01:05 PM
*spitting Coke on my keyboard* ROFL

Jesus! How did you all of a sudden become the victim here! :rolleyes:

Ok, Tits. You're a racist. I'm not sure why you wanted me to call you that, but clearly you want to be cast as a sympathetic soul who is being unfairly branded, and read into my statements things that aren't there... I'm more than happy to oblige you.

Sorry to hear about your KB...Im not playing the victim, quite the contrary, I found your little diatribe about me just wanting to protect 'the good white boys' or however you put it really funny. I know what you meant, and you know what you meant...all smilies aside.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 01:09 PM
Is there any reason I should not put faith in the prosecutor? I haven't heard of a valid reason to doubt the prosecutors motivations yet. Do you have a reason that might be valid for calling into question the integrity of this person? Or are you just guessing like everybody else?

He was up for re-election and needed the black vote and got it. This case has served him well.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 01:15 PM
Im having a hard time following you now...I guess when your arguments and semantics games break down, you go into absurdity and nonsense.


What's broken down? Other than your argument? You said "no one has said once that it's a travesty that they've been charged, just that the case appears to be a bit henke thus far." I noted that you're living in lala land, and that this entire thread is based on exactly what you said no one is doing. You then move to turn this into something about yourself, like I charged that you were doing what you said no one was doing, and asked me to call you a racist. I'm not suprised you're having a hard time following me... You barely seem to know what's going on.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 01:17 PM
Sorry to hear about your KB...Im not playing the victim, quite the contrary, I found your little diatribe about me just wanting to protect 'the good white boys' or however you put it really funny. I know what you meant, and you know what you meant...all smilies aside.



Yeah Titus... I meant that you're a raging racist, hate black people, worship David Duke, believe in white supremacy, and enjoy burning crosses in your free time, when you're not dragging black people down gravel roads in your Chevy. That's completely what I was getting at. I guess you're just brilliant at reading between the lines.

Nice job!

chagrin
05-24-2006, 01:25 PM
Yeah Titus... I meant that you're a raging racist, hate black people, worship David Duke, believe in white supremacy, and enjoy burning crosses in your free time, when you're not dragging black people down gravel roads in your Chevy. That's completely what I was getting at. I guess you're just brilliant at reading between the lines.

Nice job!

David Duke is so 80's

Taco John
05-24-2006, 01:27 PM
Good point.

It's hard to come up with modern racists... Though I've been told that George Bush doesn't care about black people...

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 01:30 PM
What's broken down? Other than your argument? You said "no one has said once that it's a travesty that they've been charged, just that the case appears to be a bit henke thus far." I noted that you're living in lala land, and that this entire thread is based on exactly what you said no one is doing....

Actually it's not...of course there are a few that are adamant about this being a injustice, Big Daddy for one, but other than that many just are expressing their doubt which is what I did.

Then in TRUE Teej mode, you come out accusing everyone of being idiot jurors ready to acquit the kids.

No one has said anything of the sort and the thread is far from being based on that despite your incessant tangents and semantic games.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 01:31 PM
Yeah Titus... I meant that you're a raging racist, hate black people, worship David Duke, believe in white supremacy, and enjoy burning crosses in your free time, when you're not dragging black people down gravel roads in your Chevy. That's completely what I was getting at. I guess you're just brilliant at reading between the lines.

Nice job!

ROFL

While I appreciate the tangent, I doesnt distract me. It might work on a few around here, though. Good luck.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 01:34 PM
Yeah Titus... I meant that you're a raging racist, hate black people, worship David Duke, believe in white supremacy, and enjoy burning crosses in your free time, when you're not dragging black people down gravel roads in your Chevy. That's completely what I was getting at.

Nice job!

You seem to think that about a lot of people. I guess you just hate whitey for keeping a taco down.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Actually it's not...



Uh, actually it is... Hence the first sentence on every page of this thread...

Why waste the time/energy and ruin these guys lives? It's obvious what's going on here...


You're slipping Titus... Go ahead and spin this about how unreasonable I am with my "wait and see" position. I don't care. Watching you scramble to make this about you is amusing. I didn't realize you had so much invested in this case.

Taco John
05-24-2006, 01:44 PM
You seem to think that about a lot of people. I guess you just hate whitey for keeping a taco down.



Your race baiting aside, I think that there are few true racists, but an abundance of true ignorant people. Being a half breed, I've had the privledge of observing this ignorance on both sides. The funny thing about ignorance is that people who are ignorant don't know that they're ignorant.

KCTitus
05-24-2006, 01:45 PM
Uh, actually it is... Hence the first sentence on every page of this thread...

You're slipping Titus... Go ahead and spin this about how unreasonable I am with my "wait and see" position. I don't care. Watching you scramble to make this about you is amusing. I didn't realize you had so much invested in this case.

OK, Class...this is what we call Irony.

This is too easy.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 01:49 PM
All I know is the legal experts they have interviewed on TV say that without DNA evidence or eye witnesses they basically don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting a prosecution. The only reason NiFong went after them most likely was to get re-elected. I'll bet the background on this girl is as sketchy as Katelyn Faber's

Taco John
05-24-2006, 01:53 PM
OK, Class...this is what we call Irony.

This is too easy.


When all else fails, Titus... Just declare victory and ignore the fact that you didn't really get anywhere. Forget the fact that the first sentence of every page in this thread negates your entire premise.

Lzen
05-24-2006, 02:01 PM
Pulling out and having her say no as he gives her the money shot is now rape? :hmmm:

Having sex with another guy later that night and then bragging at a party about the size of his cock doesn't exactly sound like the act of rape victim to me.

I guess a willing female can say no in the middle of it (or afterwards) and it's now considered rape. :rolleyes: :shake:

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 02:06 PM
I guess a willing female can say no in the middle of it (or afterwards) and it's now considered rape. :rolleyes: :shake:

How ridiculous is that? Lets try the different sex test. "Officer, I was going down on this girl and she came in my mouth and I didn't want her to do that. Arrest her for rape." :rolleyes:

Gives a whole new meaning to this smilie though. :drool:

Lzen
05-24-2006, 02:23 PM
I realize that arguing against a bunch of self important people who think they know it all is a losing proposition. But at the very least, it's good for some laughs.



ROFL ROFL

Pot meet kettle.

Lzen
05-24-2006, 02:37 PM
Good point.

It's hard to come up with modern racists... Though I've been told that George Bush doesn't care about black people...

Oh, so I guess then the World Trade Center was full of mostly black people, eh Taco?

Duck Dog
05-24-2006, 02:38 PM
What kind of dumb**** rapes a girl, and then blows his load in her? I mean, really?

You have to be pretty slow and stupid to leave that kind of evidence behind.

Yeah, because DNA can only be found in semen.

Lzen
05-24-2006, 02:41 PM
The trial is being put off for almost a year? WTH? What ever happened to the right to a speedy trial?

Taco John
05-24-2006, 04:32 PM
The trial is being put off for almost a year? WTH? What ever happened to the right to a speedy trial?



Yeah, that definitely sucks.

Doesn't a judge have to agree that there's enough evidence for a trail to go forward? I'm wondering what the internal justification for such a lengthy waiting period is.

chief2000
05-24-2006, 05:24 PM
Anyone know of a photo of her anywhere ?

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 05:26 PM
Anyone know of a photo of her anywhere ?

No, it will come out eventually though and her career will be toast.

Kclee
05-24-2006, 05:31 PM
No, it will come out eventually though and her career will be toast.

You mean her career as a hooker/dancer? Heh. Didn't some org. give her a free ride for college? I think some pro black org.

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 05:33 PM
Anyone know of a photo of her anywhere ?

Here is a picture of Kim Roberts the other stripper

BIG_DADDY
05-24-2006, 05:35 PM
You mean her career as a hooker/dancer? Heh. Didn't some org. give her a free ride for college? I think some pro black org.

I'm sure she is going to make out like a bandit. That's the problem these days there is too many benefits for making a false claim.

Kclee
05-24-2006, 05:41 PM
I'm sure she is going to make out like a bandit. That's the problem these days there is too many benefits for making a false claim.


Yep. Even if she made the whole thing up, she still gets a full ride.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/04/jesse-jackson-gives-duke-party.html

Ugly Duck
05-24-2006, 07:23 PM
the accuser admitted to having had sexual intercourse with at least three men around the time of the alleged attack. Dang.... thats a busy girl. Boning three different guys before work, then gettin nekid in front of a gang drunk college kids. She works hard for the money - so hard for it, honey.

Bootlegged
06-09-2006, 06:33 AM
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/448437.html


More Duke Lacrosse Controversy Filing disputes lacrosse probe
Tale 'crock,' 2nd dancer told police
Motion protests DA's bid for data
Cost of DNA testing in Duke case reported
Duke's Cassese up for challenge
Lacrosse will return to Duke


By Joseph Neff, Staff Writer
The second dancer in the Duke lacrosse case told police early on that allegations of rape were a "crock" and that she was with the accuser the entire evening except for a period of less than five minutes.
The second dancer, Kim Roberts, made that statement when she was first contacted by Durham police one week after the party where the first escort service dancer said she was gang raped by three men.

Roberts' statements and notes of the detectives in the case were made public today in a court filing by lawyers for one of the defendants, Reade Seligmann, 20, of Essex Falls, N.J.

Seligmann's lawyers said police omitted important facts contradicting the accuser's story when they obtained an order to photograph and take DNA samples from the players, including Roberts' statements to police.

Investigator Benjamin Himan first contacted Roberts on March 20, one week after the lacrosse party that ended in the early hours of March 14.

"She heard that (the accuser) was sexually assaulted, which she stated is a 'crock' and she stated that she was with her the whole time until she left," according to Himan's notes. "The only time she was alone was when she would not leave and that time period was less than five minutes."

Seligmann's lawyers said there were major discrepancies in the reports of the doctors and nurses who examined the accuser at Duke Medical Center.

Prosecutors and police have said that the accuser was hit, kicked and strangled while she was sexually assaulted anally, vaginally and orally.

The accuser told the nurse "that she was not choked; that no condoms, fingers or foreign objects were used during the sexual assault," the lawyers wrote in a sworn statement. The nurse noted that the accuser's arms, legs, head, neck, nose, throat, mouth, chest, breasts and abdomen were all normal, the court filing said. The lawyers filed the accuser's medical records under seal with the court.

Two other players have been charged with first degree rape, sexual offense and kidnapping in the case: David Evans, 23, of Bethesda, Md., and Collin Finnerty, 19, of Garden City, N.Y.

chagrin
06-09-2006, 06:41 AM
I don't know man - how come in cases like this; I mean where rich, white kids are accused of something terrible, at least one of them has to be named "collin" or something stuffy like that

Bootlegged
06-09-2006, 07:53 AM
I don't know man - how come in cases like this; I mean where rich, white kids are accused of something terrible, at least one of them has to be named "collin" or something stuffy like that


Just to piss of The New Black Panther party.

Bootlegged
07-02-2008, 05:18 PM
I figure I'll wait until the trail to make any determinations on guilt or innocence. I'm not suprised to see knee jerk juries out here in lala land who have already tried the case without so much as hearing what the prosecution has to say. He's obviously got something because he's arrested three people, and you don't get arrests without probable cause.

:LOL:

Bootlegged
07-02-2008, 05:18 PM
Is there any reason I should not put faith in the prosecutor? I haven't heard of a valid reason to doubt the prosecutors motivations yet. Do you have a reason that might be valid for calling into question the integrity of this person? Or are you just guessing like everybody else?

:LOL:

CoMoChief
07-02-2008, 06:09 PM
and i don't find her differing stories to be that big a deal, rape victims are often reluctant to admit to being raped and are often too traumatized to think straight...

It's bullshit and the accuser needs to held accountable as well. Rape is a very serious thing. I don't think telling different stories or not telling the right story just because someone is traumatized should be an excuse. Just tell people what the **** happened. It's not that hard.

KCChiefsMan
07-02-2008, 06:10 PM
so is she going to be prosecuted? She could have ruined those guys' lives and she should go to prison and get the same exact sentance that they would have got

FAX
07-02-2008, 07:03 PM
What I want to know is where Mr. midnight_douchebag was when she was boning all these guys.

FAX

Pasta Giant Meatball
07-02-2008, 08:50 PM
What I want to know is where Mr. midnight_douchebag was when she was boning all these guys.

FAX

Out in San Diego stealing a laptop :shrug:

***SPRAYER
10-25-2008, 11:22 AM
bump

***SPRAYER
10-25-2008, 11:23 AM
Can you move this to the political forum? Thanks (sorry)

Ari Chi3fs
10-25-2008, 11:24 AM
bump

Why the fuck would you bump this you fucking Jet idiot.

Go Obama!!

***SPRAYER
10-25-2008, 11:25 AM
Why the **** would you bump this you ****ing Jet idiot.

Go Obama!!

To show all the sanctimonious O-bots on the DC Forum jerking themselves silly over that ditz who carved a backward B in her face.

Ari Chi3fs
10-25-2008, 11:33 AM
FTR, you need to find another hobby. Trying to convince Chiefs fans on a message board of your political ideas seems like such a waste of fucking time.

You joined in fucking July, and you already have over 3100 posts???

Seriously, go read a book, get offline and enjoy life, you retard.

Please pull a Simply Red.

Bowser
10-25-2008, 01:00 PM
To show all the sanctimonious O-bots on the DC Forum jerking themselves silly over that ditz who carved a backward B in her face.

Go get laid, for chrissakes.

JuicesFlowing
10-25-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm sure she's a sweet girl.

irishjayhawk
10-25-2008, 05:06 PM
To show all the sanctimonious O-bots on the DC Forum jerking themselves silly over that ditz who carved a backward B in her face.

I don't get you point.

***SPRAYER
07-25-2009, 08:12 PM
bump

Reaper16
07-25-2009, 08:13 PM
bump
Serious question: What?

Baconeater
07-25-2009, 08:17 PM
Mmmkayyy....

Bowser
07-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Worthless bump from a worthless poster. Who would have thought?

***SPRAYER
07-25-2009, 08:19 PM
Worthless bump from a worthless poster. Who would have thought?

Is this your dad?

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/090626_frank_lombard_420x294.jpg

Bowser
07-25-2009, 08:27 PM
Your act is old and tired, dude. Just get lost.

Coach
07-25-2009, 09:53 PM
Your act is old and tired, dude. Just get lost.

Agreed.

Thig Lyfe
07-26-2009, 12:21 AM
Worthless bump from a worthless poster. Who would have thought?

Worthless? He's simply highlighting one of the many thousands of examples throughout history of white people being victimized and oppressed because of the color of their skin.

He's doing God's work.

Pioli Zombie
07-26-2009, 06:42 AM
I'm gunna get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see........
Posted via Mobile Device

beach tribe
07-26-2009, 08:20 AM
The only witness, her friend, says it's BS. How is that not the smoking gun in this case. Open and shut.