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Loki
05-23-2006, 08:11 PM
Pentagon warns over China buildup (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/05/23/pentagon.china/index.html)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- China's rapid military buildup could throw off the balance of power in Asia and threaten other countries in the region, according to a Pentagon report on China's military power.

Pace and scope of modernization surprises analysts, report says

The Pentagon's annual report to Congress says the country's consistent defense spending on aircraft, missiles and ships means China is ever closer to a longer-range military reach.

"Several aspects of China's military development have surprised U.S. analysts, including the pace and scope of its strategic forces modernization," the report says. "China's military expansion is already such as to alter regional military balances."

While China has been expanding its reach with conventional weapons, the country has also improved its nuclear capability with more and improved ballistic missiles.

The report stresses that the country's intention to use them only for defensive purposes has not changed, but it is both "qualitatively and quantitatively" improving its long-range nuclear missile force.

The "Military Power of the People's Republic of China 2006," report also highlights China's immediate focus on planning for "Taiwan Strait contingencies," including the possibility of U.S. intervention.

Taiwan, backed by the United States as its main arms supplier, has a limited Chinese rule. China has long considered the island off its coast to be part of its territory.

The United States has said it would defend Taiwan if it were attacked by China, and China has said it would invade if the country officially declared its independence.

The 2006 report says that by late 2005, China had deployed some 710-790 mobile short-range ballistic missiles to garrisons opposite Taiwan, and deployment continues to expand at an average rate of about 100 missiles per year.

China has deployed 400,000 ground-force personnel to the three military regions opposite Taiwan, an increase of 25,000 from last year, according to the report.

It has been upgrading these units with tanks, armored personnel carriers, and a substantial increase in the amount of artillery pieces, the report states.

The country has also increased and upgraded its air forces with planes that can fly faster and farther, totaling about 700 aircraft in range of Taiwan, it says.

China's move to increase its influence over Taiwan and the region has been costly. It publicly says its defense budget for 2006 is up 15 percent from last year, spending about $35 billion.

The Pentagon report says the actual budget is between $70 billion and $105 billion.

This compares with the U.S. military budget which topped $400 billion for 2005.

Loki
05-23-2006, 08:34 PM
ok...

so who was it again that was telling me that i was out of my tree for thinking china posed any threat?!
:shake:

* * *

what is surprising to me is:
1. how woefully unprepared this makes our intelligence communities look.
2. that this 'revelation' is FINALLY making the mainstream news (which further makes our intelligence communities look woefully unprepared).

china has been extremely busy for the last 20yrs. beyond the consistent restructuring of the forces since the late 80's early 90's, it seems as though they took the wonderful (and classified) ballistic missile information, that former president clinton so kindly bestowed upon them, and expanded upon it.
it would also seem that all the high-tech work that our (super nationalistic and loyal) corporations have deemed fit to remove from our workers/economy has strengthened china's economy and bolstered their military budget a couple billion dollars.

sweet.

ok. so now we're in the middle of a war. we're distracted, economy is not doing so well (in comparison) and our military is pretty well stretched out...

anyone else beginning to think china is eyeballing taiwan right about now?

Pitt Gorilla
05-24-2006, 01:40 AM
Just think, every time that cash register at Wal-Mart beeps, we're helping to finance that military!!!

Loki
05-24-2006, 07:55 AM
Just think, every time that cash register at Wal-Mart beeps, we're helping to finance that military!!!

indeed.
friggin' ballsack mart... :shake:

jiveturkey
05-24-2006, 08:08 AM
Would you attack your best customer?

What do they gain from attacking us?

banyon
05-24-2006, 08:36 AM
Would you attack your best customer?

What do they gain from attacking us?

Nothing, until the eventual day that we can't repay our loans from them.

Loki
05-24-2006, 08:48 AM
Would you attack your best customer?

What do they gain from attacking us?

they aren't going to attack us directly. however, they can/could bait us into an attack if they were to invade taiwan.

china has stated that they will attack taiwan if taiwan claims it's independance from china. china considers the breakaway republic of taiwan to be part of their sovereign soil and want the territory back. currently china is beefing up their military in that particular region and are staging (practice) wargames with the invasion of taiwan as the main focus. they are also moving tactical nukes into the region saying they would use them as a contingency if the US were to defend taiwan. (i doubt once the nukes are in place that they are going to be removed.)

for years now, the US has given financial and military aid to taiwan. we have also sworn to protect taiwan if china attacks them.

jiveturkey
05-24-2006, 08:52 AM
I've never understood our stance on Taiwan. Are they really worth getting into a nuclear war over? Are they even worth a regular war with the most populous country in the world?

Walmart would shit their pants if a war like this breaks out.

keg in kc
05-24-2006, 09:06 AM
anyone else beginning to think china is eyeballing taiwan right about now?China's been eyeballing taiwan for years.

And I've long been of the opinion that China (and russia) are the ones bankrolling the "muslim fundamentalist" terrorists we're currently at "war" against.

I'm admittedly a bit of a conspiracy nut.

Loki
05-24-2006, 09:09 AM
I've never understood our stance on Taiwan. Are they really worth getting into a nuclear war over? Are they even worth a regular war with the most populous country in the world?

Walmart would shit their pants if a war like this breaks out.

make that two of us not understanding our alliegance to taiwan. :shrug:
the only thing i can think of is that they are a very strong democratic presence in the region considering it's position in regards to communist china (?)

the only thing i do know for sure is that china has kept their hands off taiwan for 40+ years because of the relationship they have with the United States. they have stated many times that they want to re-absorb taiwan into the "unified china" and are willing to fight for it.

the island itself doesn't really have many natural resources that are high on "wanted" or export lists. it's mostly mountainous and it's agricultural base just barely supports itself (a lot of crops/foodstuffs are imported).
it has a decent economy through it's industrial sectors and is (i would suppose) in a decent strategic position (in a military sense).

beyond all that, your guess is as good as mine as to why china wants it back and why we're willing to protect them from attack.

Loki
05-24-2006, 09:12 AM
China's been eyeballing taiwan for years.

And I've long been of the opinion that China (and russia) are the ones bankrolling the "muslim fundamentalist" terrorists we're currently at "war" against.

I'm admittedly a bit of a conspiracy nut.

i don't necessarily disagree that commies are supporting terrorism with arms deals and logistics, but i'm not so sure about bankrolling it. some paper trails are difficult to cover up. :shrug:

as long as we're discussing armaments, don't forget about our buddies the french (and germans for that matter) with some of their more shady arms deals...

Pitt Gorilla
05-24-2006, 10:26 AM
I've never understood our stance on Taiwan. Are they really worth getting into a nuclear war over? Are they even worth a regular war with the most populous country in the world?

Walmart would shit their pants if a war like this breaks out.Or Israel.

Radar Chief
05-24-2006, 10:57 AM
China's been eyeballing taiwan for years.

And I've long been of the opinion that China (and russia) are the ones bankrolling the "muslim fundamentalist" terrorists we're currently at "war" against.

I'm admittedly a bit of a conspiracy nut.

Not to discount this, but doesn’t China have their own set of troubles with Muslim terrorists?

jiveturkey
05-24-2006, 11:46 AM
Or Israel.
Touche'

Cochise
05-24-2006, 02:00 PM
Nothing, until the eventual day that we can't repay our loans from them.

:rolleyes:

We already can't pay it today. What are they going to do? Call the loan? What if we don't pay? Do they write it off as bad debt?

ROFL

jiveturkey
05-24-2006, 02:12 PM
:rolleyes:

We already can't pay it today. What are they going to do? Call the loan? What if we don't pay? Do they write it off as bad debt?

ROFLIt sounds like they're building up for an international knee cap breaking.

Adept Havelock
05-24-2006, 06:17 PM
ok...

anyone else beginning to think china is eyeballing taiwan right about now?
Nope. Not for at least a decade or more. They don't have anywhere near the sealift capability needed. Even if they conscripted civilian freighters as troop transports as we did during WW2, they still don't have sufficent capability to maintain the logistical trail an army large enough to take and occupy Taiwan would need. Especially in the face of support from the Seventh Fleet. I think an invasion of Taiwain is about as likely to succeed as Sealion would have been anytime after the Fall of 1940. The odds just are not in China's favor.

I'd be much more concerned about them making a move on Vietnam and it's neigboring countries or on the Korean Penn. In a couple of decades time or less, I fully expect China will make a push to recapture the territory it lost to Russia in the 1700's or 1800's. Siberia is the last great untapped reserve of oil and precious minerals, and the Russians military strength is declining each year. Power, much like nature, abhors a vacuum.

|Zach|
05-24-2006, 07:25 PM
It sounds like they're building up for an international knee cap breaking.
ROFL ROFL

Loki
05-24-2006, 08:45 PM
Nope. Not for at least a decade or more. They don't have anywhere near the sealift capability needed. Even if they conscripted civilian freighters as troop transports as we did during WW2, they still don't have sufficent capability to maintain the logistical trail an army large enough to take and occupy Taiwan would need. Especially in the face of support from the Seventh Fleet. I think an invasion of Taiwain is about as likely to succeed as Sealion would have been anytime after the Fall of 1940. The odds just are not in China's favor.

I'd be much more concerned about them making a move on Vietnam and it's neigboring countries or on the Korean Penn. In a couple of decades time or less, I fully expect China will make a push to recapture the territory it lost to Russia in the 1700's or 1800's. Siberia is the last great untapped reserve of oil and precious minerals, and the Russians military strength is declining each year. Power, much like nature, abhors a vacuum.lol... as i've said before, what the hell does china need boats for? they have enough of a population that they can stand on each other's shoulders across the oceans and create a human bridge between here and there and STILL send wave after wave of expendable infantry... ;)

http://www.dandelion.org/ant/image/burhcelli%20bridge%20%5B215%5D.jpg