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View Full Version : X-Men 4 Thread - How? Contains X-Men 3 Spoliers...


Vegas_Dave
05-28-2006, 08:24 AM
CAUTION, This thread contains spoilers of X-Men 3. So if you dont want to know what happens, dont read.



































OK, Yes, X-men 3 lacked compared to X1 & X2 in my mind. However, it wasnt bad and I still would like to see an X4 to try and redeem this one.

That being said, how the hell would they pull this off?

You kill off 3 characters in this movie.

-Professor X
-Cyclops
-Jean Grey - or is it just Phoenix?

I totally did NOT expect Cyclops' death, and at such an early point in the movie.

Yes, they leave it open for a 4th with the 2 last scenes for the movie. Magneto in the park playing chess by himself and has a hint of his powers returning... and then at the end of the credits with Prof X's mind in the body of the patient who had know brain function.

But how do you continue X-Men without Cyclops and Jean Grey?

This reminds me of Star Trek 2: TWOK. They kill off Spock at the end so that it can be the LAST movie (since the Star Trek movies were only designed originally to be just the 1 movie). But fans (and studios) wanted more so they made a HUGE Reach to give Star Trek 3 (which I never cared for).

Thoughts?

Tribal Warfare
05-28-2006, 08:36 AM
The possibilty of introducing Gambit, with Dr. Sinister plotline. Then they would get into the Apocalpse and X-Factor storyline too.

keg in kc
05-28-2006, 08:45 AM
I thought it better than the first one, and on repeat viewings maybe better than the second (especially if there's an extended cut DVD). I don't like some of the plot decisions they made (as an x-men comic fan) but the movie itself wasn't nearly as bad as the reviews I've read. I just wish they'd saved the whole pheonix storyline and done it the right way. You know, as the pheonix force instead of this stupid mental block/schizophrenic thing, and done it in space.

Obvious they were gearing up for more in the franchise, though. And I'm sure they will, what with the way they ended it. I'm sure it's done big numbers, too, because for all the people complaining about it, well...they've all seen it...



How do you do X-Factor without Cyclops and Jean Grey?

Tribal Warfare
05-28-2006, 08:51 AM
I

How do you do X-Factor without Cyclops and Jean Grey?

Dr. Sinister originally took the DNA from Cyclops and Jean to create Nate Grey the genetic duplicate of Cable of course to alter this Dr. Sinister would have make two clones one is Cable and the other is Nate

keg in kc
05-28-2006, 08:57 AM
None of which answers the fundamental question.

And they can't do every storyline ever done in the history of x-men comics in the next film. Although they seem to be trying their best so far.

Tribal Warfare
05-28-2006, 08:59 AM
None of which answers the fundamental question.

And they can't do every storyline ever done in the history of x-men comics in the next film. Although they seem to be trying their best so far.

I thought answered quite coherently

ChiefFripp
05-28-2006, 10:22 AM
When Professor X lost his temper snapped at Wolverine repeatedly(very unlike the cool headed professor), it made me think that perhaps he is harboring Cyclops soul .

I don't think that was the last we'll see of Cyclops.

FAX
05-28-2006, 10:30 AM
When Professor X lost his temper snapped at Wolverine repeatedly(very unlike the cool headed professor), it made me think that perhaps he is harboring Cyclops soul .

I don't think that was the last we'll see of Cyclops.

I hadn't even thought of that, Mr. ChiefFripp. Good catch.

I don't like sad endings where all the characters die. This makes me feel a little more hopeful.

FAX

Gravedigger
05-28-2006, 10:53 AM
They did kill alot of storylines by killing off cyclops and jean grey. I'm thinking that they will open up another storyline with the sentinels cause if you remember in the movie they had the two flashbacks the one 20 years ago with jean as a kid and the one 10 years ago with angel as a kid. BUT the third flashback didnt say present day it said in the not too distant future MEANING IMO that the danger room session they were having will become true in the not so distant future or some version of it. Cause lets face it if it isnt that then 10 years is not something to be specified as the not too distant future and they would've just said present day. I think they will bring in gambit, psylocke, havok, and some other characters to give the movie what it should have and thats depth. Rogue's powers will return, as will Magneto's and Mystique's, and they better make Rogue able to fly and have her strength is all I have to say. They should introduce Jubilee as well cause she had some relevance to the sentinel plotline. Jubilee has just been a cameo in the previous movies I'd like to see her have a bigger role. THen they will enter in the mutant prison story with cable and forge and the sentinels cause they introduced the guy who created the sentinels in the third movie. The first time I saw this movie I thought it was a letdown but then on the second time seeing it it was better than the first time.

Sully
05-28-2006, 11:15 AM
They did kill alot of storylines by killing off cyclops and jean grey. I'm thinking that they will open up another storyline with the sentinels cause if you remember in the movie they had the two flashbacks the one 20 years ago with jean as a kid and the one 10 years ago with angel as a kid. BUT the third flashback didnt say present day it said in the not too distant future MEANING IMO that the danger room session they were having will become true in the not so distant future or some version of it. Cause lets face it if it isnt that then 10 years is not something to be specified as the not too distant future and they would've just said present day. I think they will bring in gambit, psylocke, havok, and some other characters to give the movie what it should have and thats depth. Rogue's powers will return, as will Magneto's and Mystique's, and they better make Rogue able to fly and have her strength is all I have to say. They should introduce Jubilee as well cause she had some relevance to the sentinel plotline. Jubilee has just been a cameo in the previous movies I'd like to see her have a bigger role. THen they will enter in the mutant prison story with cable and forge and the sentinels cause they introduced the guy who created the sentinels in the third movie. The first time I saw this movie I thought it was a letdown but then on the second time seeing it it was better than the first time.

After the first two movies, I was content just to know the movie version of the story. After this 3rd one I am dying to know all the actual characters and who they are as well as the stories surrounding them. Bottom line... I wish I knew what the hell anything in your paragraph meant.

FAX
05-28-2006, 11:16 AM
After the first two movies, I was content just to know the movie version of the story. After this 3rd one I am dying to know all the actual characters and who they are as well as the stories surrounding them. Bottom line... I wish I knew what the hell anything in your paragraph meant.

ROFL

FAX

Demonpenz
05-28-2006, 11:24 AM
i didn't like it. The move felt like a beta version of what the finished product should be. Thanks alot assholes.

Sully
05-28-2006, 11:47 AM
i didn't like it. The move felt like a beta version of what the finished product should be. Thanks alot assholes.

They definitely could've done a lot more with what they had to work with.

Valiant
05-28-2006, 12:19 PM
They did kill alot of storylines by killing off cyclops and jean grey. I'm thinking that they will open up another storyline with the sentinels cause if you remember in the movie they had the two flashbacks the one 20 years ago with jean as a kid and the one 10 years ago with angel as a kid. BUT the third flashback didnt say present day it said in the not too distant future MEANING IMO that the danger room session they were having will become true in the not so distant future or some version of it. Cause lets face it if it isnt that then 10 years is not something to be specified as the not too distant future and they would've just said present day. I think they will bring in gambit, psylocke, havok, and some other characters to give the movie what it should have and thats depth. Rogue's powers will return, as will Magneto's and Mystique's, and they better make Rogue able to fly and have her strength is all I have to say. They should introduce Jubilee as well cause she had some relevance to the sentinel plotline. Jubilee has just been a cameo in the previous movies I'd like to see her have a bigger role. THen they will enter in the mutant prison story with cable and forge and the sentinels cause they introduced the guy who created the sentinels in the third movie. The first time I saw this movie I thought it was a letdown but then on the second time seeing it it was better than the first time.


Jubilee and psylocke were in this movie and so were a lot of other xmen from the comic books but as bad guys.. Hell omega Red was in the movie and I do not remember seeing him...

Rausch
05-28-2006, 12:38 PM
Dr. Sinister originally took the DNA from Cyclops and Jean to create Nate Grey the genetic duplicate of Cable of course to alter this Dr. Sinister would have make two clones one is Cable and the other is Nate

Which happened in an alternate reality, not the "main" Marvel Universe.

The Cable storyline could still happen but it would require a lot of BS that probably wouldn't fit in a movie...

QuikSsurfer
05-28-2006, 01:23 PM
Jubilee and psylocke were in this movie and so were a lot of other xmen from the comic books but as bad guys.. Hell omega Red was in the movie and I do not remember seeing him...
kid omega - Quentin Quire.

Prince22
05-28-2006, 10:50 PM
First of all, I loved this movie. It's better than the first and almost as good as the second one.

I think Cyclops will return. After all we never saw him dead. We just asumed Phoenix killed him. And she didnt kill Wolverine when she first woke up in the mansion so why would she have killed Cyclops. And there is no way Xavier is dead already. He had to much of a roll in the comic books to be out by the third movie. And for the record even after Magneto lost some of his powers (in the comic books) he was still by far the most powerful mutant.

I was a little upset with the way they did a few things. For starters, Phoenix should have been introduced in later movies and she was suppose to be in outer space. The Beast wasn't nearly large enough but it was good to see him in this one. I was pissed Nightcrawler wasn't in this one. He kicked ass in X2.

I'm gonna go back and see it again this week because of all the ghetto ass teens that wouldnt shut the **** up made me miss some stuff.

Prince22
05-28-2006, 11:11 PM
Jubilee and psylocke were in this movie and so were a lot of other xmen from the comic books but as bad guys.. Hell omega Red was in the movie and I do not remember seeing him...


I dont think Omega Red was in this movie. I dont remember either.

ChiefaRoo
05-28-2006, 11:48 PM
First of all, I loved this movie. It's better than the first and almost as good as the second one.

I think Cyclops will return. After all we never saw him dead. We just asumed Phoenix killed him. And she didnt kill Wolverine when she first woke up in the mansion so why would she have killed Cyclops. And there is no way Xavier is dead already. He had to much of a roll in the comic books to be out by the third movie. And for the record even after Magneto lost some of his powers (in the comic books) he was still by far the most powerful mutant.

I was a little upset with the way they did a few things. For starters, Phoenix should have been introduced in later movies and she was suppose to be in outer space. The Beast wasn't nearly large enough but it was good to see him in this one. I was pissed Nightcrawler wasn't in this one. He kicked ass in X2.

I'm gonna go back and see it again this week because of all the ghetto ass teens that wouldnt shut the **** up made me miss some stuff.


Xavier isn't dead. If you stayed after the credits he wakes up in Moira McTaggart's hospital in the body of the guy who he used as an example in the ethics class he was teaching. Remember, the guy had no mind so now the prof's mojo is alive and well in his spankin' new bod.

Psyko Tek
05-28-2006, 11:54 PM
I liked it, but

I didn't like the way they burnt plot lines and characters that took years for marvel to build

was sort of slash and burn character wise now they have to do a search for spock movie to get them all back


and if they would have done the phoenix right, not the multi-personality BS, it would have been easy


my favorite peeve about this Kitty pride is with colussus (sp) no bobby drake shit

that is the greatest X-romance they are always together
no love triangle, they just are and always will be

Prince22
05-29-2006, 12:09 AM
Xavier isn't dead. If you stayed after the credits he wakes up in Moira McTaggart's hospital in the body of the guy who he used as an example in the ethics class he was teaching. Remember, the guy had no mind so now the prof's mojo is alive and well in his spankin' new bod.


Ahhh. I had to run after some teenagers and beat the shit out of them to get my money back. I missed that.

Valiant
05-29-2006, 01:08 AM
kid omega - Quentin Quire.

During the credits and on imdb a Omega Red is listed...

Vince Murdocco .... Omega Red (uncredited)---he was listed in the credits when i watched...

meStevo
05-29-2006, 01:22 AM
Good movie if you have not read the comic books, or can suspend hope of a faithful adaptation from said comics so that it is simple for the movies.

No bird of fire at any point is kinda disappointing, although still very powerful, its kinda lame what they reduced the Phoenix to a split personality. Granted they cant have her go destroy a solar system like in the comics, that'd be way over the top for the scope that has been established in this and the previous movies.

it would be awesome if they made a Shi'ar movie, like on Sci-Fi or something.... and were able to merge the universes in a movie that exposes the true potential of the Phoenix towards the end.

Like most movies trying to do too much, there are so many characters introduced that they all get just one scene and then they're done. Could have done so much with Jamie Madrox.

Juggernaut isnt a mutant, he's magical. I'd almost rather they had a crossover and had that end up being an incoherant bruce banner, subdued by random_marauder/brotherhood/morlock_telepath to follow them. Would have been much much cooler. Juggernaut reduced to just a buff dude with a metal helmet is kinda lame, though he was still cool at the same time. Just an injustice to the character. Amazing that they included him, and then made him just a generic brute here.

Marrow is one of the coolest mutants in the movie, and is not in any of the trailers i saw. Wish I could have had some more Colossus, but that is just personal preference. Cyclops I actually almost cared about in this movie, in the previous 2 he's a selfish prick, though on purpose to help make Wolverine look more over the edge I suppose. Its probably Jean's fault he's that way anyway, damn redheads. Hank is great, though cause of the rushed production I think they did more wirework than they wanted. Iceman is good, I wanted more out of his frosting up scene. Would have liked to seen something more like what the White Queen did to him when she showed him that he can do so much more with his gifts. Pyro and Magneto..... the flaming cars were great.... but wtf was up with that sudden switch from daylight to pitch black night for the Alcatraz Island fight??

Would be really cool to see some more movies in this universe, with some minor cross plots, like a Hellfire Club or an Alpha Flight movie with appearances by Wolverine or Beast. One can only dream. I really don't want to see an X4 until they establish more in it. They could pull it off, but they'll have to 'search for spock' like it's been pointed out in a previous post, and spend some time undoing some things. Maybe they could do a stint with GenX, New Mutants of Excalibur.

Overall tho, like I said, suspending preestablished beliefs, it is an interesting end to this arc, hopefully they'll come up with another, and not just some spinoffs.

meStevo
05-29-2006, 01:23 AM
Where was Omega Red in the movie? Was he just in a crowd somewhere, or did I completely miss him in one of the big fights?

Valiant
05-29-2006, 07:13 AM
Where was Omega Red in the movie? Was he just in a crowd somewhere, or did I completely miss him in one of the big fights?


If you go to IMDB, you will find they added tons of mutants and did not do shit with them...

SCChief
05-29-2006, 08:42 AM
Good movie if you have not read the comic books, or can suspend hope of a faithful adaptation from said comics so that it is simple for the movies.

No bird of fire at any point is kinda disappointing, although still very powerful, its kinda lame what they reduced the Phoenix to a split personality. Granted they cant have her go destroy a solar system like in the comics, that'd be way over the top for the scope that has been established in this and the previous movies.

it would be awesome if they made a Shi'ar movie, like on Sci-Fi or something.... and were able to merge the universes in a movie that exposes the true potential of the Phoenix towards the end.

Like most movies trying to do too much, there are so many characters introduced that they all get just one scene and then they're done. Could have done so much with Jamie Madrox.

Juggernaut isnt a mutant, he's magical. I'd almost rather they had a crossover and had that end up being an incoherant bruce banner, subdued by random_marauder/brotherhood/morlock_telepath to follow them. Would have been much much cooler. Juggernaut reduced to just a buff dude with a metal helmet is kinda lame, though he was still cool at the same time. Just an injustice to the character. Amazing that they included him, and then made him just a generic brute here.

Marrow is one of the coolest mutants in the movie, and is not in any of the trailers i saw. Wish I could have had some more Colossus, but that is just personal preference. Cyclops I actually almost cared about in this movie, in the previous 2 he's a selfish prick, though on purpose to help make Wolverine look more over the edge I suppose. Its probably Jean's fault he's that way anyway, damn redheads. Hank is great, though cause of the rushed production I think they did more wirework than they wanted. Iceman is good, I wanted more out of his frosting up scene. Would have liked to seen something more like what the White Queen did to him when she showed him that he can do so much more with his gifts. Pyro and Magneto..... the flaming cars were great.... but wtf was up with that sudden switch from daylight to pitch black night for the Alcatraz Island fight??

Would be really cool to see some more movies in this universe, with some minor cross plots, like a Hellfire Club or an Alpha Flight movie with appearances by Wolverine or Beast. One can only dream. I really don't want to see an X4 until they establish more in it. They could pull it off, but they'll have to 'search for spock' like it's been pointed out in a previous post, and spend some time undoing some things. Maybe they could do a stint with GenX, New Mutants of Excalibur.

Overall tho, like I said, suspending preestablished beliefs, it is an interesting end to this arc, hopefully they'll come up with another, and not just some spinoffs.

I will have to dig around, but I have heard somewhere that there are plans for a Wolverine movie, as well as potentially an Angel/Archangel movie as well. I got the impression from some of the things that were set up that they were opening up for more movies about some of the individual characters.

Smoke
05-29-2006, 08:04 PM
Just caught the movie today. The beast was really bad ass, Wolverine should come off like him in the fight scenes. My X-men reading is of the earlier comics so I hate to see the movies moving forward so fast. There are YEARS of great story lines that could be adapted into movie scripts. I'm afraid that the newer comic characters will be pushed into the movies far too quickly.

The Professor "dieing" was just a way of getting a new actor to replace Stewart who doesn't want to do another X-men.

Wallcrawler
05-29-2006, 10:04 PM
When I first saw X-3, I thought the story sucked. The fights were cool to watch and everything, but reducing Scott Summers to a bit part and then killed, Killing off Charles Xavier soon after, and then having Logan kill Phoenix at the end of the movie was just a disaster for me.


When you take those three characters, Jean, Scott, and Professor X and you kill off all 3 in one story when they are such a HUGE part of the X-Men lore, its really a ridiculous direction to go.

Sure there are storylines where those characters die in the comics, but you can always find an X-Men comic with all the characters in there alive and well.

It really was the one edge that the X-Men films had over films like Spider-Man, in the fact that they never killed off any significant characters from the books.

Now, under a new director, they go and off three of the original core members of the X-men in one movie.


But, when I watched it again, and just took it as an action movie starring some of my favorite comic book characters and treated it as if it was one of the spinoff stories where they can get away with killing whoever they want, and telling any type of story, its much better.

It would be better to know from the outset however, that this film should be taken in that fashion. That way when you see Cyclops and Xavier killed so quickly, it doesnt come out of left field and leave you sitting in the theater wondering what the F is going on with this movie.

the Talking Can
05-30-2006, 05:47 AM
watched X2 on tv yesterday...better than X3 in every way....still hope they try it again...

Vegas_Dave
05-30-2006, 09:27 AM
OK, so some good points in here. This is what I see of relevance:

1. We never see Cyclops actually "Die" We assume that he was "blown away" in the same manor that the professor was...

2. The professor is still "alive" inside another body. However, I dont think that they will use this as a way of replacing Patrick Stewart because remember, it was still Patrick Stewarts voice in the new body.

3. Good observation by someone (sorry, didnt want to go hunting for whom) that it is hinted that Cyclop's spirit was trapped into the professor. Reasoning was the way that the Prof snapped at Wolverine after she Jean escaped from the mansion. The Prof would NOT have snapped like that but the snap was VERY much something that Cyclops would say.

4. The movie has made a TON of money. They left open some way to continue on. There will be an X-Men 4.

Sure-Oz
06-01-2006, 09:03 PM
I enjoyed the movie tonight....it was def. a more extreme version of the previous 2. Jean Gray was a badass for sure, and i loved Vinnie Jones as Juggarnaut, perfect there...

I am excited about #4, now i am excited to see the next spiderman and Superman Returns.