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View Full Version : Princeton Prof: Bush in contention for Worst President Ever


Jenson71
06-01-2006, 03:57 PM
History Professor Sean Wilentz, author of The Rise of American Democracy, gives his ol' two cents:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/9961300

I looked to see if it was posted, didn't see it...sorry if it's a repost.


George W. Bush's presidency appears headed for colossal historical disgrace. Barring a cataclysmic event on the order of the terrorist attacks of September 11th, after which the public might rally around the White House once again, there seems to be little the administration can do to avoid being ranked on the lowest tier of U.S. presidents. And that may be the best-case scenario. Many historians are now wondering whether Bush, in fact, will be remembered as the very worst president in all of American history.

From time to time, after hours, I kick back with my colleagues at Princeton to argue idly about which president really was the worst of them all. For years, these perennial debates have largely focused on the same handful of chief executives whom national polls of historians, from across the ideological and political spectrum, routinely cite as the bottom of the presidential barrel. Was the lousiest James Buchanan, who, confronted with Southern secession in 1860, dithered to a degree that, as his most recent biographer has said, probably amounted to disloyalty -- and who handed to his successor, Abraham Lincoln, a nation already torn asunder? Was it Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, who actively sided with former Confederates and undermined Reconstruction? What about the amiably incompetent Warren G. Harding, whose administration was fabulously corrupt? Or, though he has his defenders, Herbert Hoover, who tried some reforms but remained imprisoned in his own outmoded individualist ethic and collapsed under the weight of the stock-market crash of 1929 and the Depression's onset? The younger historians always put in a word for Richard M. Nixon, the only American president forced to resign from office.

Now, though, George W. Bush is in serious contention for the title of worst ever. In early 2004, an informal survey of 415 historians conducted by the nonpartisan History News Network found that eighty-one percent considered the Bush administration a "failure." Among those who called Bush a success, many gave the president high marks only for his ability to mobilize public support and get Congress to go along with what one historian called the administration's "pursuit of disastrous policies." In fact, roughly one in ten of those who called Bush a success was being facetious, rating him only as the best president since Bill Clinton -- a category in which Bush is the only contestant.

Short Leash Hootie
06-01-2006, 04:05 PM
hes a ****ing great presidnet.... im so sick of hearing this shit from you pussy ass liberals.... much better then clinton
you seem like a real d-bag!

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:06 PM
hes a ****ing great presidnet.... im so sick of hearing this shit from you pussy ass liberals.... much better then clinton

I don't necessarily disagree with you.

However, I'd like to see, EMPIRICALLY, how he's better than Clinton.

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:08 PM
hes a ****ing great presidnet.... im so sick of hearing this shit from you pussy ass liberals.... much better then clinton

You've got to hand it to Clinton though, the man had style.

NJ Chief Fan
06-01-2006, 04:09 PM
clinton was the man atleast gas was under $5 a gallon

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:12 PM
clinton was the man atleast gas was under $5 a gallon

And he never invaded a country under false pretenses. So that's probably a bonus point or something.

Short Leash Hootie
06-01-2006, 04:13 PM
you guys are ALL OVER clinton's dick...even more that that one chubby girl!

Short Leash Hootie
06-01-2006, 04:13 PM
ahh gas is 2.66 a gallon here... thats well under 5... and that has nothing to do with who's president... maybe you forgot... hurricane Katrina
hahahahahahaha

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:14 PM
And he never invaded a country under false pretenses. So that's probably a bonus point or something.

We had a few guys die in the Balkans under Clinton...just to be fair.

Short Leash Hootie
06-01-2006, 04:18 PM
1. Bush doesnt **** around with terrorists... Clinton wanted to wipe their asses

2. Clinton got us into a recession because of his policies... do you remember the stock market crash... that was due to clinton

3. Clinton once said... "I never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky" on national T.V..... he's a ****ing liar... and whats so sad about it is people are ok with it because it had to with sex...... hes the ****ing president and he lied straight faced to everyone
he likes to ****...so what?

You're an obvious Republican, yet you're gay...how does that make ANY sense?

Jenson71
06-01-2006, 04:18 PM
I didn't intend for this to be in the main lounge, just so everyone knows. And I ain't no liberal.

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:18 PM
Yea, Saddam Hussein was such a good guy

We sure as shit liked him in the 80's.

jidar
06-01-2006, 04:21 PM
1. Bush doesnt **** around with terrorists... Clinton wanted to wipe their asses

2. Clinton got us into a recession because of his policies... do you remember the stock market crash... that was due to clinton

3. Clinton once said... "I never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky" on national T.V..... he's a ****ing liar... and whats so sad about it is people are ok with it because it had to with sex...... hes the ****ing president and he lied straight faced to everyone


Yeah Bush sure showed those bastards what's what after that 9/11 shit!
Oh.. wait.. they didn't catch the guy who did that did they. shit.

bogie
06-01-2006, 04:22 PM
Is this a joke, or is this really an example of what goes on in the DC forum?

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:22 PM
1. Bush doesnt **** around with terrorists... Clinton wanted to wipe their asses

2. Clinton got us into a recession because of his policies... do you remember the stock market crash... that was due to clinton

3. Clinton once said... "I never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky" on national T.V..... he's a ****ing liar... and whats so sad about it is people are ok with it because it had to with sex...... hes the ****ing president and he lied straight faced to everyone

I said empirically.

Can you prove Bush doesn't **** around with terrorists? Osama bin Laden is still out there, after all.

Can you prove that Clinton got us into a recession? Can you prove that any president has the much control over it?

And let's not open the "he lied" envelope, lest a few of GW Bush's doozies fall out.

Jenson71
06-01-2006, 04:23 PM
Is this a joke, or is this really an example of what goes on in the DC forum?

Pretty intellectual stuff, huh?

JBucc
06-01-2006, 04:24 PM
Bush is a great president, but he's nothing compared to Jimmy Carter!

Bob Dole
06-01-2006, 04:24 PM
I didn't intend for this to be in the main lounge, just so everyone knows. And I ain't no liberal.

Where else would it be?

Jenson71
06-01-2006, 04:25 PM
Where else would it be?

I posted it in the D.C. Forum.

bogie
06-01-2006, 04:26 PM
Pretty intellectual stuff, huh?

You have got to be kidding me.

Herzig
06-01-2006, 04:26 PM
1. Bush doesnt **** around with terrorists... Clinton wanted to wipe their asses

2. Clinton got us into a recession because of his policies... do you remember the stock market crash... that was due to clinton

3. Clinton once said... "I never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky" on national T.V..... he's a ****ing liar... and whats so sad about it is people are ok with it because it had to with sex...... hes the ****ing president and he lied straight faced to everyone

1. Bush hasn't really "caught" many terrorists..Last time I checked, Osama, Al Zarquari, and most of the Taliban are still running aroung loose.

2. Which Clinton policies got us into the recession? From what I remember, the economy and stock market were booming when Clinton was in office, we had a surplus, we were getting out of the debt that Reagan got us into, and now Bush keeps spending our money on an illegitimate war that doesn't look to be over anytime soon.

3. Who gives a shit about Clinton's sex life? I could care less.

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:29 PM
10 years we will all say it was a good thing we took out those towlheads

Yeah!!! Spread the seeds of ignorance and hatred!!!

Bob Dole
06-01-2006, 04:30 PM
I posted it in the D.C. Forum.

D.C. Forum?? How did you manage to find such a thing? Bob Dole was just reading this morning that it was gone, or invisible, or hidden, or something.

Jenson71
06-01-2006, 04:31 PM
D.C. Forum?? How did you manage to find such a thing? Bob Dole was just reading this morning that it was gone, or invisible, or hidden, or something.

Not from me, Bob. I like your work.

recxjake
06-01-2006, 04:32 PM
USAMA BIN LADEN, Saudi, supreme leader: At large, on FBI Most Wanted Terrorists list.

AYMAN AL-ZAWAHRI, Egyptian, bin Laden's doctor, spiritual adviser: At large, on FBI Most Wanted Terrorist list.

MOHAMMED ATEF, Egyptian, military chief: Killed in U.S. airstrike.

KHALID SHAIKH MOHAMMED, Kuwaiti, suspected mastermind of Sept. 11 attacks: Captured.

ABU ZUBAYDAH, Palestinian-Saudi, terrorist coordinator: Captured.

SAIF AL-ADIL, Egyptian, bin Laden security chief: At large, on FBI Most Wanted Terrorist list.

SHAIKH SAIID AL-MASRI, Egyptian, bin Laden chief financier: At large.

ABD AL-RAHIM AL-NASHIRI, Saudi, Persian Gulf operations chief: Captured.

TAWFIQ ATTASH KHALLAD, Yemeni, operational leader, suspected mastermind of USS Cole bombing in October 2000: At large.

QAED SALIM SINAN AL-HARETHI, Yemeni, Yemen operations chief: Killed in U.S. airstrike.

OMAR AL-FAROUQ, Kuwaiti, Southeast Asia operations chief: Captured.

IBN AL-SHAYKH AL-LIBI, Libyan, training camp commander: Captured.

SAAD BIN LADEN, Saudi, bin Laden's son: At large.

ABU MOHAMMAD AL-MASRI, Egyptian, training camp commander: At large, on FBI Most Wanted Terrorist list as Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah.

TARIQ ANWAR AL-SAYYID AHMAD, Egyptian, operational planner: Killed in U.S. airstrike.

MOHAMMED SALAH, Egyptian, operational planner: Killed in U.S. airstrike.

ABD AL-HADI AL-IRAQI, training camp commander: Captured.

ABU MUSAB ZARQAWI, Jordanian, operational planner: At large.

ABU ZUBAIR AL-HAILI, Saudi, operational planner: Captured.

ABU HAFS THE MAURITANIAN, operational and spiritual leader: At large.

SULAIMAN ABU GHAITH, Kuwaiti, al-Qaida spokesman: At large.

MOHAMMED OMAR ABDEL-RAHMAN, Egyptian, operational planner and trainer: At large.

MIDHAT MURSI, Egyptian, chemical and bioweapons researcher: At large.

MOHAMMED JAMAL KHALIFA, Saudi, financier: At large.

SAAD AL-SHARIF, Saudi, financer: At large.

MUSTAFA AHMED AL-HISAWI: Sept. 11 financer: At large.

HAMZA AL-QATARI, financier: Killed.

AHMAD SAID AL-KADR, Egyptian-Canadian, financier: At large.

ZAID KHAYR, operational leader: At large.

ABU SALAH AL-YEMENI: logistics, Killed.

ABU JAFAR AL-JAZIRI, aide to Abu Zubyadah: Killed.

ABU BASIR AL-YEMENI, Yemeni, aide to Osama bin Laden: At large.

ABD AL-AZIZ AL-JAMAL, aide to al-Zawahri: At large.

RAMZI BINALSHIBH, Yemeni, planner and organizer of Sept. 11 attacks: Captured.

ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI, charged as conspirator with Sept. 11 hijackers: Captured.

ZAKARIYA ESSABAR, member of cell with chief Sept. 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta: At large.

SAID BAHAJI, member of cell with chief Sept. 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta: At large.

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:33 PM
you must have a vagina

Because I don't use ignorant racist remarks? Your logic is amazing.

jAZ
06-01-2006, 04:34 PM
Bush is a far cry from a great president...
Yeah, "hes a ****ing great presidnet...."

That's way cooler than being a "great president".

JBucc
06-01-2006, 04:35 PM
Because I don't use ignorant racist remarks? Your logic is amazing.Go play with your vagina vaginaboy

Herzig
06-01-2006, 04:35 PM
the army killed a shit load of them...


Along with thousands of innocent people. Was Iraq or Saddam really that big of a threat? We took out their millitary in less than 3 weeks! And, we still have not found any weapons of "mass destruction"

Is Iraq or us really better off? Their country is in ruins, it's not safe there....would you want to go there or live there? Is it our business to be the world police? Iraq posed very little to no threat to us. Iran and N. Korea are much bigger threats to the US than Iraq ever was.

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:36 PM
and that list is from march 2003... many more have been captured/ killed since then

And what's the blowback here? How many more terrorists have our actions created and will continue to create because of our lack of foresight in foreign relations? I love America just as much as anyone but sometimes we're like a chronic masturbater, we just can't stop ****ing ourselves.

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:36 PM
1. Bush hasn't really "caught" many terrorists..Last time I checked, Osama, Al Zarquari, and most of the Taliban are still running aroung loose.

2. Which Clinton policies got us into the recession? From what I remember, the economy and stock market were booming when Clinton was in office, we had a surplus, we were getting out of the debt that Reagan got us into, and now Bush keeps spending our money on an illegitimate war that doesn't look to be over anytime soon.

3. Who gives a shit about Clinton's sex life? I could care less.

Regarding number 2, Bush tends to get the blame for the recession because of those things you mentioned.

As someone who works in telecom, I can assure you that the bubble burst BEFORE Bush took office.

However, I would also suggest that the President doesn't have nearly as much control over grossly inflated market caps in the stock market as some would have us believe...

nychief
06-01-2006, 04:36 PM
hes a ****ing great presidnet.... im so sick of hearing this shit from you pussy ass liberals.... much better then clinton

wow, you are stupid.

Bob Dole
06-01-2006, 04:36 PM
You know, after looking at that list, if Bob Dole's name was Abu, Abu Dole would probably look in to having it legally changed to something else.

Bush clearly hates Abu.

jAZ
06-01-2006, 04:37 PM
because your to stupid to realize that we at war with a culture
We are at war with a culture of ignorance Mr. "(Bush is) a ****ing great presidnet"

Bob Dole
06-01-2006, 04:39 PM
wow, your stupider

That one is bound to live forever...

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 04:40 PM
and if you look at that list. i dont seen any joes, jims, larrys, or dicks.... they are towlheads


I'm not debating their country of birth, I'm saying the phrase "towlhead" (as apparently you can only use one "E" per word) is ignorant and racist. But it seems you can't understand that.

Sully
06-01-2006, 04:41 PM
and if you look at that list. i dont seen any joes, jims, larrys, or dicks.... they are towlheads

What a ****ing moron.

Donger
06-01-2006, 04:42 PM
maybe your stupidist

OMG. Please stop.

JBucc
06-01-2006, 04:43 PM
Republicans go to Mars to get more Candy bars, Dems go to Jupiter to get more stupider.

Carlota69
06-01-2006, 04:44 PM
the army killed a shit load of them...

the last months of Clintons presidency was the beginning of the recession

i dont care about clintons sex life.... i care that he lied

Do you care that Bush lied as well, except thousands of Americans (not sperm) have died because of it?

Donger
06-01-2006, 04:45 PM
im in jacksonville, florida how far is that from where u live

In a GM vehicle? That depends on how many times I have to get towed.

JBucc
06-01-2006, 04:45 PM
Do you care that Bush lied as well, except thousands of Americans (not sperm) have died because of it?Are you saying our troops have no sperm?

Donger
06-01-2006, 04:45 PM
Do you care that Bush lied as well, except thousands of Americans (not sperm) have died because of it?

What did he lie about?

jAZ
06-01-2006, 04:46 PM
OMG. Please stop.
Mark the date and time. Donger and I agree.

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:46 PM
because your to stupid to realize that we at war with a culture

Holy shit, dat's some ignorance there...

Carlota69
06-01-2006, 04:47 PM
Are you saying our troops have no sperm?
ROFL Fair enough..My bad, excuse me. Thousands of American and countless sperm have died in Iraq.

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:47 PM
In a GM vehicle? That depends on how many times I have to get towed.

ROFL

Carlota69
06-01-2006, 04:51 PM
bush did not lie..... the british, french, russian, german and american intelligence agencies all said that iraq had wmd...
ROFL ROFL Is your finger tired from all that pointing?

Sully
06-01-2006, 04:51 PM
they have know ideas besides whatever bush says is wrong

I still don't buy that you are 20 or in college.

Donger
06-01-2006, 04:51 PM
we can argue all day about this... I think Bush is doing a good job, could have done better

are the dems going to win 06 yes... and i hope they do....they have know ideas besides whatever bush says is wrong

Are you the type that forgets/doesn't care about spelling and grammar when they get worked up?

No what I mean?

Donger
06-01-2006, 04:54 PM
Mark the date and time. Donger and I agree.

Mods: Can I change my position on this?

Bob Dole
06-01-2006, 04:54 PM
maybe your stupidist

Holy shit.

JBucc
06-01-2006, 04:54 PM
Holy shit.ROFL

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:57 PM
Mods: Can I change my position on this?

No.

I'm actually going to change your name to dONGER.

Sully
06-01-2006, 04:57 PM
well come see me next fall at the University of Iowa and i'll buy ya a drink... buy your profile says your 15... that might be hard

i turn 21 on june 20th


My profile says I'm 15?
You have problems with spelling, because you are "worked up and in a hurry." What's your excuse for not being able to read?

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 04:58 PM
i ****ing hate toyota... more then democrats and michael moore and bill clinton and john kerry and hillary clinton combined

Of course you do.

Ignorance is bliss.

Donger
06-01-2006, 04:59 PM
No.

I'm actually going to change your name to dONGER.

ROFL

JBucc
06-01-2006, 04:59 PM
i ****ing hate toyota... more then democrats and michael moore and bill clinton and john kerry and hillary clinton combinedI know. I changed my avatar to piss you off.

pak1983
06-01-2006, 05:02 PM
1. Bush doesnt **** around with terrorists... Clinton wanted to wipe their asses

2. Clinton got us into a recession because of his policies... do you remember the stock market crash... that was due to clinton

3. Clinton once said... "I never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky" on national T.V..... he's a ****ing liar... and whats so sad about it is people are ok with it because it had to with sex...... hes the ****ing president and he lied straight faced to everyone


clinton lied about his personal life, bush lied about wmd's and about the cia leak. he said he would remove anyone from his administration if they were responsible for the leak and he was the one responsible the whole time. wtg on that one buddy. pull head out of sand please. thank you.

htismaqe
06-01-2006, 05:03 PM
shut up noob

ROFL

You've got 30 days on him there, you're a real veteran.

jAZ
06-01-2006, 05:04 PM
im in jacksonville, florida how far is that from where u live
Is that where you live?

jAZ
06-01-2006, 05:05 PM
1. Bush doesnt **** around with terrorists... Clinton wanted to wipe their asses
Tell that to our troops at Tora Bora.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:07 PM
i ****ing hate toyota... more then democrats and michael moore and bill clinton and john kerry and hillary clinton combined


What are you kid...about 10 years old?

Regarding GWB: The only thing more pathetic than a mongoloid in the oval office is a country half-full of people who are too fu_king stupid to recognize a mongoloid when they see one.

RedDread
06-01-2006, 05:10 PM
my dad's been transfered from Des Moines to Detroit to Chicago to Jax in the last 4 years.... they moved to Jax (saint augustine) about 5 months ago... im here for the summer... but when i graduate from college im heading right back to wdm, ia


GM sure treats their employees well huh?


Do they have any plants in Mexico yet? I hear they're looking for skilled laborers down there since they all seem to be up here.





Aside: The more posts I read by you the less I believe that you're not an alter-ego. Most of it's just too stupid to be believable.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:12 PM
actually that would be more than half... 51%

cry baby cry


I'm not going to cry...you are the one who voted for a retard. You are clearly wasting your time in college.


Why not just go to work on a farm and assault gay folk in your spare time?

Simplex3
06-01-2006, 05:12 PM
This isn't even a question. It was Truman Roosevelt, damnit , hands down. The New Deal was singlehandedly the biggest mistake this country has ever made and will eventually lead to it's ruin.

Donger
06-01-2006, 05:13 PM
This isn't even a question. It was Truman, hands down. The New Deal was singlehandedly the biggest mistake this country has ever made and will eventually lead to it's ruin.

Errrrrr.

Sully
06-01-2006, 05:14 PM
This isn't even a question. It was Truman, hands down. The New Deal was singlehandedly the biggest mistake this country has ever made and will eventually lead to it's ruin.


Do I tell him, or are one of you guys gonna do it?

Simplex3
06-01-2006, 05:16 PM
Do I tell him, or are one of you guys gonna do it?
Damnit, I always do that. ROFL

It's Roosevelt.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:16 PM
This isn't even a question. It was Truman, hands down. The New Deal was singlehandedly the biggest mistake this country has ever made and will eventually lead to it's ruin.


Your mom and dad were wrong.

Truman? WTF is wrong with you?

Mecca
06-01-2006, 05:17 PM
actually that would be more than half... 51%

cry baby cry

Well if you ever get out and about......you'll see how many really stupid people live in this country.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:18 PM
Damnit, I always do that. ROFL

It's Roosevelt.


FDR was one of the top 5 Presidents of all time. It's nearly unanimous among historians.

Don't agree? You are incorrect.

Donger
06-01-2006, 05:18 PM
FDR was one of the top 5 Presidents of all time. It's nearly unanimous among historians.

Don't agree? You are incorrect.

I don't agree, and I'm an historian.

jAZ
06-01-2006, 05:19 PM
my dad's been transfered from Des Moines to Detroit to Chicago to Jax in the last 4 years.... they moved to Jax (saint augustine) about 5 months ago... im here for the summer... but when i graduate from college im heading right back to wdm, ia
I thought you were attending the UofI.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:20 PM
I don't agree, and I'm an historian.


Then sorry, but you aren't much of a historian.

Mecca
06-01-2006, 05:20 PM
i pay for my own college, i dont get handouts... i've worked since i was 14.... all democrats want to do is give out handouts, and let in their future voters (mexicans) into this country for free

What was Bush's stance on the illegal immigrants in this country again? Oh damn I just kinda blew a hole in that arguement.

Simplex3
06-01-2006, 05:22 PM
FDR was one of the top 5 Presidents of all time. It's nearly unanimous among historians.

Don't agree? You are incorrect.
"Historians" are idiots. Several economic impact studies have shown his plans actually deepend and extended the great depression. His socialist reforms are screwing up this country long after his death.

Donger
06-01-2006, 05:22 PM
Then sorry, but you aren't much of a historian.

I'd say a definite Top 10, but not Top 5. Probably #6.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:27 PM
"Historians" are idiots. Several economic impact studies have shown his plans actually deepend and extended the great depression. His socialist reforms are screwing up this country long after his death.


The fu_king guy hasn't been in the White House in over 60 years, and the USA experienced the most prosperous time in its history AFTER his "America-destroying" policies were enacted.

Don't be an idiot. Nothing internal will destroy this country. MAKING ENEMIES ON THE OUTSIDE WILL.

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:28 PM
I'd say a definite Top 10, but not Top 5. Probably #6.


Well, at least you're reasonable.

Hopefully Reagan doesn't get a sniff of your top 10.

Chiefaholic
06-01-2006, 05:29 PM
I agree that the Chiefs defense was one of the worst ever in 2003. Good thing we picked up a defensive minded coach.

BucEyedPea
06-01-2006, 05:29 PM
"Historians" are idiots. Several economic impact studies have shown his plans actually deepend and extended the great depression. His socialist reforms are screwing up this country long after his death.

I absolutely agree. We know more about economics today.
Since, the history books idolize him...of course the people think he's a hero.

Baby Lee
06-01-2006, 05:32 PM
And he never invaded a country under false pretenses. So that's probably a bonus point or something.
The aspirin factory wasn't just as badly interpeted intelligence?

Clint in Wichita
06-01-2006, 05:32 PM
I absolutely agree. We know more about economics today.

That's pure BS.


Since, the history books idolize him...of course the people think he's a hero.

And just because some stupid book says so, Jesus is a savior.

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:42 PM
i care that he lied


At least Bust never did that...

Dave

keg in kc
06-01-2006, 05:42 PM
The 8 year run of the Haliburton administration may well go down as one of the darkest moments in our history.

JBucc
06-01-2006, 05:42 PM
And just because some stupid book says so, Jesus is a savior.Great he had to bring Jesus into this. Bush and Jesus in the same thread. This will go on for years.

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:42 PM
And just because some stupid book says so, Jesus is a savior.


ROFL ROFL ROFL

Dave

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:45 PM
The 8 year run of the Haliburton administration may well go down as one of the darkest moments in our history.


Its close, I hope we don't run into Iran next and cement this posistion.

Dave

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:45 PM
who is bust

Guess...

Dave










replace one letter in the name

Donger
06-01-2006, 05:46 PM
Well, at least you're reasonable.

Hopefully Reagan doesn't get a sniff of your top 10.

Close, but he'd probably sneak in.

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:47 PM
"Historians" are idiots. Several economic impact studies have shown his plans actually deepend and extended the great depression. His socialist reforms are screwing up this country long after his death.


So his plans for some WPA projects caused the world economy to stay in the tank and get worse. I call :BS:

Dave

keg in kc
06-01-2006, 05:48 PM
replace one letter in the namelust?

BucEyedPea
06-01-2006, 05:48 PM
That's pure BS.

Some of his programs were challenged through the courts at the time and when removed the economy improved. It is verifiable data. Why do you think he tried to pack the Supreme Court? We got our Keynesian system implemented under him, which is based on false stimulation of the economy to create demand that creates the booms and busts. Keynes was a Fabian socialist. His system has led to where we are today with low savings and high debt, both private and public. He thought savings was unecessary.

Sorry but I disagree.

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:50 PM
lust?


I knew I could count on you for the right answer ROFL

Dave

keg in kc
06-01-2006, 05:51 PM
I'm nothing if not reliable.

Dave Lane
06-01-2006, 05:52 PM
Some of his programs were challenged through the courts at the time and when removed the economy improved. It is verifiable data. Why do you think he tried to pack the Supreme Court? We got our Keynesian system implemented under him, which is based on false stimulation of the economy to create demand that creates the booms and busts. Keynes was a Fabian socialist. His system has led to where we are today with low savings and high debt, both private and public. He thought savings was unecessary.

Sorry but I disagree.

And to think its all FDRs fault. I never knew...

Dave

JohnnyV13
06-01-2006, 05:57 PM
I can't believe none of the historians nominated Andrew Jackson was one of the worst presidents. He had a totally corrupt "kitchen" cabinet.

Jackson also screwed over the Navajo indian nation who was doing everything to conform to the white man's ways. Someone found gold on their land, and Jackson wanted them out. The leader of the indian nation was a harvard educated lawyer, and he beat Jackson's attempt to oust the navajo's in the supreme court.

Jackson then signed a treaty with the leader's opposition and recognized him as the "legitimate government" in total violation of international law and US law.

Jackson was a total POS.

JohnnyV13
06-01-2006, 06:14 PM
Now, if we're talking about BEST presidents.....

I would think that Harry Truman is hands down the best president of the 20th century.

I don't think the issue is even debatable in any reasonable manner, even though most people will say FDR or Ronald Reagan, depending on their political affiliation.

Under Truman the United States:

-Dropped the A bomb which was an unqualified success, this decision saved millions of lives in both Japan and among Allied forces.

-Reconstructed Japan and Germany such that they are the 2nd and 3rd largest economies in the world and transformed our greatest enemies into our strongest allies.

-created the whole concept of a "cold war", a historically unique way to conduct a war which went against the prevailing "Clauswitzian" concept of military conflict. The cold war, btw was wildly successful for the west without inciting a nuclear conflict. Two prominent Generals AGAINST the cold war concept were Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton, who are generally recognized as the greatest military leaders the US has ever produced.

-stood up to Douglas MacArthur in Korea, which was very important since generally military officers had control over what ordinance they would use on the battlefield. But, in a nuclear world, Truman HAD to re-establish the primacy of the president as commander in chief.

-created the protocols for nuclear release.

-oversaw the transformation of the US military into a permanent standing superpower force, this was a drastic change from the former military culture b/f ww2.

-oversaw a strong economy, which rebounded from world-wide depression prior to ww2.

Donger
06-01-2006, 06:16 PM
Now, if we're talking about BEST presidents.....

I would think that Harry Truman is hands down the best president of the 20th century.

I don't think the issue is even debatable in any reasonable manner, even though most people will say FDR or Ronald Reagan, depending on their political affiliation.

Under Truman the United States:

-Dropped the A bomb which was an unqualified success, this decision saved millions of lives in both Japan and among Allied forces.

-Reconstructed Japan and Germany such that they are the 2nd and 3rd largest economies in the world and transformed our greatest enemies into our strongest allies.

-created the whole concept of a "cold war", a historically unique way to conduct a war which went against the prevailing "Clauswitzian" concept of military conflict. The cold war, btw was wildly successful for the west without inciting a nuclear conflict. Two prominent Generals AGAINST the cold war concept were Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton, who are generally recognized as the greatest military leaders the US has ever produced.

-stood up to Douglas MacArthur in Korea, which was very important since generally military officers had control over what ordinance they would use on the battlefield. But, in a nuclear world, Truman HAD to re-establish the primacy of the president as commander in chief.

-created the protocols for nuclear release.

-oversaw the transformation of the US military into a permanent standing superpower force, this was a drastic change from the former military culture b/f ww2.

-oversaw a strong economy, which rebounded from world-wide depression prior to ww2.


Ole Harry is certainly in the Top 5 in my book. He's one of the Democrats that I'd love to have had the chance to vote for.

Donger
06-01-2006, 06:18 PM
I can't believe none of the historians nominated Andrew Jackson was one of the worst presidents. He had a totally corrupt "kitchen" cabinet.

Jackson also screwed over the Navajo indian nation who was doing everything to conform to the white man's ways. Someone found gold on their land, and Jackson wanted them out. The leader of the indian nation was a harvard educated lawyer, and he beat Jackson's attempt to oust the navajo's in the supreme court.

Jackson then signed a treaty with the leader's opposition and recognized him as the "legitimate government" in total violation of international law and US law.

Jackson was a total POS.

What he did was definitely "bad" for the Native Americans, but "good" for America in general. Hence, that pesky Indian Removal Act is typically ignored.

banyon
06-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Recycled post

My own, personal top 10:

________________________
1) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/15_150a.gif Buchanan's failure to quell the rising militias in the Antebellum South.

2) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/04_150a.gif Madison's declaration of war on the British. (thier navy was about 10 times as large as ours). not to mention his poor war leadership.

3) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/35_150a.gif LBJ's maniupulation of the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam War.

4) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/07_150a.gif Andrew Jackson's forcible removal of the Cherokees on the Trail of Tears. (and his nullification of the U.S. Supreme Court).

5) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/42_150a.gif W's decison to go to war without the help of the U.N. on faulty intelligence.

6) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/03_150a.gif Jefferson's embargo on the French and British. (said he didn't know which side to trade with. So he decided to trade with neither. Problem is we needed stuff.)

7) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/36_150a.gif Nixon- Watergate

8) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/30_150a.gif Hoover's repeated promises of "prosperity right around the corner" and his concordant inaction.

9)http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/18_150a.gif Grant's involvement in the Railroad trusts/scandal.

10)http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/41_150a.gif Clinton Lewinsky-gate

JohnnyV13
06-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Btw,

Lyndon Johnson is a clearly worse president than Bush. THe only thing that clouds most people's thinking is his "Great Society" and his civil rights legislation.

However, Johnson was a HORRIBLE domestic president. All of his great society programs were a mess. THey were executed VERY poorly and created huge economic problems later on.

Johnson, more than any other president, was responsible for the terrible US economy in the 70's and early 80's. Medicare and Social Security are STILL problems 40 years later. The health care system has gotten to the point where it's crushing the profits of GM and other major US corporations.

It was johnson that created the "half-assed" socialized system we have today, which is the worst of both worlds.

All of that is not even mentioning Vietnam, his fake "Tonkin Gulf Incident" which let him commit huge numbers of troops into vietnam, or the way in which he ran the vietnam draft so that he created huge public unrest.

Johnson's policies demolished faith in America to the point where people were ashamed of this country by the late 70's.

banyon
06-01-2006, 06:23 PM
What he did was definitely "bad" for the Native Americans, but "good" for America in general. Hence, that pesky Indian Removal Act is typically ignored.


Don't forget he pretty much singlehandedly stopped the chartering of the U.S. National Bank. :thumb:

Donger
06-01-2006, 06:24 PM
Btw,

Lyndon Johnson is a clearly worse president than Bush. THe only thing that clouds most people's thinking is his "Great Society" and his civil rights legislation.

However, Johnson was a HORRIBLE domestic president. All of his great society programs were a mess. THey were executed VERY poorly and created huge economic problems later on.

Johnson, more than any other president, was responsible for the terrible US economy in the 70's and early 80's. Medicare and Social Security are STILL problems 40 years later. The health care system has gotten to the point where it's crushing the profits of GM and other major US corporations.

It was johnson that created the "half-assed" socialized system we have today, which is the worst of both worlds.

All of that is not even mentioning Vietnam, his fake "Tonkin Gulf Incident" which let him commit huge numbers of troops into vietnam, or the way in which he ran the vietnam draft so that he created huge public unrest.

Johnson's policies demolished faith in America to the point where people were ashamed of this country by the late 70's.


Yes, LBJ ranks in the bottom five for me.

Spicy McHaggis
06-01-2006, 06:35 PM
i ****ing hate toyota... more then democrats and michael moore and bill clinton and john kerry and hillary clinton combined

Sorry I was gone for a bit. I was having sex with my Asian girlfriend in the back of my Tacoma.

Chief Faithful
06-01-2006, 07:14 PM
FDR is the worst President on the gridiron. He was in a wheel chair for heavens sake!

Taco John
06-01-2006, 07:17 PM
I understand FDR had a bad hook shot...

Jenson71
06-01-2006, 10:07 PM
Yes, LBJ ranks in the bottom five for me.

Please tell me you're Top 10 Donger. Also, I would like to know what makes you a historian. And what you do now that you're a historian?

keg in kc
06-01-2006, 10:12 PM
Sorry I was gone for a bit. I was having sex with my Asian girlfriend in the back of my Tacoma.I have the Tacoma part. Too bad that's all I have. God what I'd do for a good Asian piece of ass.

Bowser
06-01-2006, 10:54 PM
We had a few guys die in the Balkans under Clinton...just to be fair.

Wasn't that a strip club?

Logical
06-01-2006, 10:58 PM
hes a ****ing great presidnet.... im so sick of hearing this shit from you pussy ass liberals.... much better then clinton

Ah, now I remember why we had to move DC, way to go recxjake.

Pitt Gorilla
06-01-2006, 11:06 PM
because your to stupid to realize that we at war with a cultureOh, the irony. Try "you're."

Logical
06-01-2006, 11:16 PM
Oh, the irony. Try "you're."He also needs "too stupid" not "to stupid"

Halfcan
06-01-2006, 11:17 PM
hes a ****ing great presidnet.... im so sick of hearing this shit from you pussy ass liberals.... much better then clinton

Oh so your a liberal, if you don't like a President that is putting the coutry in such debt it will take a 100 years to get out. Oh and starting a war with absolutely no plan or exit stategy.

Have you ever heard the man make a speach-total idiot!

I agree he is the worst ever!!

Chan93lx50
06-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Wow, this thread rocks!

alanm
06-01-2006, 11:28 PM
Is this a joke, or is this really an example of what goes on in the DC forum?
No, this is what really goes on in the DC forum and for the life of me I can't understand why they had to go and move this shit over to the main fourm.

For the record Bush would have to go the extra mile to unseat Carter as the worst President in my lifetime. :)

DaneMcCloud
06-02-2006, 04:12 AM
I'm 40 years old. I've lived through eight presidents. Our country has experienced several up and downs during my lifetime, which spans living in Missouri, Kansas and California. And at no time have I ever experienced a such a division in America.

It seems that our current politicians revel in separating Americans, whether it be race, class or creed. As someone who has had the luxury of traveling the world over, I love this country more than I can explain. But I find the current situation very troubling.

I'm not about to announce blame, but i find this division and "partisonship" to be extremely troubling throughout America. It's especially troubling when driven by an admitted 20 year old kid who "waves the flag" of his parents without thinking about the consequences of his "flagwaving", or without using his BRAIN in a constructive manner. I don't think I could ever endorse the position of a 20 year old, especially a 20 year old that's been "brainwashed" by his enviroment.

The GM thing is one thing (besides being extemely centrist and isolationist). But it's another thing altogether to start proclaiming the current president as "Great". Admittedly, I voted for our current president in 2000, but voted differently in 2004. I don't "hate" or have any ill feelings for our current president. I just disagree with the current direction that this administration has chosen to follow.

It's obvious, given the poll data that we've been given, that most of America is unhappy with his performance. Any casual reader of American history can see the writing on the wall, and it's definitely not pretty for our current administration. I think that use of the word "great" should be handled with care and used sparingly. At this time, I think it would be extremely foolish described our current president as "great".

Guru
06-02-2006, 04:18 AM
Oh, the irony. Try "you're."
ROFL :shake:

Donger
06-02-2006, 07:58 AM
Please tell me you're Top 10 Donger. Also, I would like to know what makes you a historian. And what you do now that you're a historian?

My degrees, I suppose. I chose not to pursue my doctorate, basically because I didn't want to teach and was extremely burnt out. So, I chose another path.

My list would be:

1. Washington
2. Lincoln
3. Jefferson
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Truman
6. FDR
7. John Adams
8. Eisenhower
9. Reagan
10. Jackson

Carlota69
06-02-2006, 12:35 PM
Recycled post

My own, personal top 10:

This list has a lot of valid points. Nine of the Presidents are being pointed out becasue of things they did that may have hurt this country and its standing in World relations and or Domestic relations. But I find it funny that all you could think of regarding Clinton was that he lied about a blow job. Granted, he did it federal court, but why was he in federal court? Becasue he got a blow job in the oval office. Come on, have you ever done a little-something-something at work that maybe you shouldn't have? Seriously, how was that bad for our World and domestic relations? How was that bad for our ecomony? Why does that, Lewinsky-Gate, make him such a bad President?



________________________
1) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/15_150a.gif Buchanan's failure to quell the rising militias in the Antebellum South.

2) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/04_150a.gif Madison's declaration of war on the British. (thier navy was about 10 times as large as ours). not to mention his poor war leadership.

3) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/35_150a.gif LBJ's maniupulation of the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam War.

4) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/07_150a.gif Andrew Jackson's forcible removal of the Cherokees on the Trail of Tears. (and his nullification of the U.S. Supreme Court).

5) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/42_150a.gif W's decison to go to war without the help of the U.N. on faulty intelligence.

6) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/03_150a.gif Jefferson's embargo on the French and British. (said he didn't know which side to trade with. So he decided to trade with neither. Problem is we needed stuff.)

7) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/36_150a.gif Nixon- Watergate

8) http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/30_150a.gif Hoover's repeated promises of "prosperity right around the corner" and his concordant inaction.

9)http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/18_150a.gif Grant's involvement in the Railroad trusts/scandal.

10)http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/41_150a.gif Clinton Lewinsky-gate

banyon
06-02-2006, 01:22 PM
This list has a lot of valid points. Nine of the Presidents are being pointed out becasue of things they did that may have hurt this country and its standing in World relations and or Domestic relations. But I find it funny that all you could think of regarding Clinton was that he lied about a blow job. Granted, he did it federal court, but why was he in federal court? Becasue he got a blow job in the oval office. Come on, have you ever done a little-something-something at work that maybe you shouldn't have? Seriously, how was that bad for our World and domestic relations? How was that bad for our ecomony? Why does that, Lewinsky-Gate, make him such a bad President?


I probably should've explained that that was a list for "Worst Presidential Blunders" and not "Worst Presidents". On My Worst Presidents list, Clinton would rank higher and Andy Jackson, Nixon, and Madison would not be in the bottom 10. They would probably be replaced with Carter, Pierce, and Tyler.

I do rank it as a bad blunder (although only the 10th worst), mostly because it paralyzed his presidency and prevented him from accomplishing what he might otherwise have done.

Carlota69
06-02-2006, 03:00 PM
I probably should've explained that that was a list for "Worst Presidential Blunders" and not "Worst Presidents". On My Worst Presidents list, Clinton would rank higher and Andy Jackson, Nixon, and Madison would not be in the bottom 10. They would probably be replaced with Carter, Pierce, and Tyler.

I do rank it as a bad blunder (although only the 10th worst), mostly because it paralyzed his presidency and prevented him from accomplishing what he might otherwise have done.


Ah, totally understand. Yes it was a HUGE blunder, and you are right, it did paralyze him. Now it makes alot more sense :)

BucEyedPea
06-02-2006, 03:23 PM
I do rank it as a bad blunder (although only the 10th worst), mostly because it paralyzed his presidency and prevented him from accomplishing what he might otherwise have done.


That's what I liked about it. :)

As a matter of fact, I credit Monica with the economy. :hmmm:

Laissez-faire works. :p

banyon
06-02-2006, 03:42 PM
That's what I liked about it. :)

As a matter of fact, I credit Monica with the economy. :hmmm:

Laissez-faire works. :p

Given what he had done up to that point (NAFTA mainly) I agree.

Stop him before he did more harm. (of course you probably dig the hell out of NAFTA).
http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/memphis/phpbb/images/smiles/05-stirthepot.gif

BucEyedPea
06-02-2006, 03:54 PM
Not at all...I despise NAFTA.

It's phoney free-trade: command economy, subsidies, socialism for corporate losses, protectionist, special-interest treaty that is sovereignty destroying.
If it's free trade...you don't need a treaty.

But I'm not foolish enough to say that it was one party or one president that screwed us here. Both parties did it. I saw all four presidents standing there that day with Rockefeller in the background.

htismaqe
06-02-2006, 08:25 PM
Not at all...I despise NAFTA.

It's phoney free-trade: command economy, subsidies, socialism for corporate losses, protectionist, special-interest treaty that is sovereignty destroying.
If it's free trade...you don't need a treaty.

But I'm not foolish enough to say that it was one party or one president that screwed us here. Both parties did it. I saw all four presidents standing there that day with Rockefeller in the background.

"NAFTA was just another step in the creation of a Pan-American Union...visit PrisonPlanet.com!"

BucEyedPea
06-02-2006, 08:38 PM
"NAFTA was just another step in the creation of a Pan-American Union...visit PrisonPlanet.com!"
I also agree with you as well.
Never heard of prisonplanet....but to me this is why immigration is not being stopped...they want that legislation in by what? 2010 or 2014 where US, Canada, Mexico are like a European Union. Nasty stuff!

htismaqe
06-02-2006, 09:06 PM
The whole Prison Planet thing is a Mancow inside joke. I think the guy that runs it is Alex Jones?