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go bowe
06-04-2006, 08:23 PM
found an interesting article (http://snipurl.com/rcgh) about global warming and how the bush administration is alleged to have censored government scientists opinions and findings about global warming that don't fit the administration's policies...

i could be wrong about that, of course...

anyway, i thought it was interesting to see how official government "scientific" pronouncments seems to be subject to political censorship these days...

penchief
06-04-2006, 10:30 PM
And I think that a new ruling from the Scalia Court just said that whistleblowers can be subject to prosecution. So, in instances like this we may never again be able to find out about governmental misconduct.

I'm afraid they really are going to succeed at snuffing out our ability to seek the truth or fight back to save our democracy.

go bowe
06-05-2006, 01:50 AM
And I think that a new ruling from the Scalia Court just said that whistleblowers can be subject to prosecution. So, in instances like this we may never again be able to find out about governmental misconduct.

I'm afraid they really are going to succeed at snuffing out our ability to seek the truth or fight back to save our democracy.if you're referring to the ceballos case, the court said:"We hold that when public employees make statements pursuant to their official duties," Justice Kennedy said, "the employees are not speaking as citizens for First Amendment purposes, and the Constitution does not insulate their communications from employer discipline." this is not a "whistleblower" case, although it may have implications for whistleblowers down the road...

and there was no prosecution involved nor did the court say anything about prosecuting whistleblowers...

the plaintiff was transferred and passed over for promotion as a result of an internal dispute, within the government office (a prosecutor's office), concerning a pending case...

so, unless there was another case recently, i think you may have mischaracterized the court's decision...

incidentally, the majority opinion in the case was not written by scalia, roberts or alito (thomas can't write, so i don't mention him), it was written by justice kennedy...

patteeu
06-05-2006, 07:34 AM
and there was no prosecution involved nor did the court say anything about prosecuting whistleblowers...

the plaintiff was transferred and passed over for promotion as a result of an internal dispute, within the government office (a prosecutor's office), concerning a pending case...

so, unless there was another case recently, i think you may have mischaracterized the court's decision...

incidentally, the majority opinion in the case was not written by scalia, roberts or alito (thomas can't write, so i don't mention him), it was written by justice kennedy...

You're getting too caught up in the details to appreciate penchief's poetry. ROFL

BucEyedPea
06-05-2006, 08:15 AM
I find this hard to believe because Bush subscribes to the theory that gw is man-made....he just doesn't support the solution: Kyoto treaty. He's right,imo, it would destroy our economy. I also believe it would harm the planet in other ways as well. But I'm not surprised that this report is coming from the BBC.

go bowe
06-05-2006, 12:16 PM
You're getting too caught up in the details to appreciate penchief's poetry. ROFLpoetry?

while that is a good quip, i have to say that his "poetry" sounds as if it were written by the author of the vagina monologues...

penchief
06-05-2006, 01:57 PM
if you're referring to the ceballos case, the court said:this is not a "whistleblower" case, although it may have implications for whistleblowers down the road...

and there was no prosecution involved nor did the court say anything about prosecuting whistleblowers...

the plaintiff was transferred and passed over for promotion as a result of an internal dispute, within the government office (a prosecutor's office), concerning a pending case...

so, unless there was another case recently, i think you may have mischaracterized the court's decision...

incidentally, the majority opinion in the case was not written by scalia, roberts or alito (thomas can't write, so i don't mention him), it was written by justice kennedy...

It clearly opens the door for a government like the one we currently have to go after whistleblowers. What I got out of the ruling was that unless they use the internal mechanisms designed to remedy the problem within the system itself, they could be subject to discipline for going outside the system. Which, IMO, is something that plays right into the hands of Cheneyburton and their overzealous attempts to silence critics and whistleblowers while at the same time providing this administration with another tool with which to safeguard their ultra-secrecy.

As far as the "Scalia Court" comment goes.......that was rhetoric.

patteeu
06-05-2006, 02:08 PM
... his "poetry" sounds as if it were written by the author of the vagina monologues...

:LOL:

penchief
06-05-2006, 07:26 PM
poetry?

while that is a good quip, i have to say that his "poetry" sounds as if it were written by the author of the vagina monologues...

I can't argue with you since I havn't seen the "Vagina Monologues."

Since you seem to be an expert on the subject I can only assume that you did.

go bowe
06-06-2006, 03:07 AM
It clearly opens the door for a government like the one we currently have to go after whistleblowers. What I got out of the ruling was that unless they use the internal mechanisms designed to remedy the problem within the system itself, they could be subject to discipline for going outside the system. Which, IMO, is something that plays right into the hands of Cheneyburton and their overzealous attempts to silence critics and whistleblowers while at the same time providing this administration with another tool with which to safeguard their ultra-secrecy.

As far as the "Scalia Court" comment goes.......that was rhetoric.no, the case involved communication which was part of the guy's job, and it was held that such communication, in the performance of official duties can result in discipline (such as transfer or pass over for promotion)...

the case also held that there is a different standard, a constitutional standard for speech as a "citizen" outside of the peformance of official duties...

in effect, it likely will mean greater protection for whistleblowers and it certainly does not provide for any punishment for whistleblowing...

if you haven't read the case, you should...

there's nothing about using internal mechanisms or following any particular procedure, it's about communications in the ordinary course of doing the job, not whistleblowing...

not only does it not open the door for the government to go after whistle blowers, it actually appears to give greater protection to "citizen" speech in public discourse (which would include whistelblowers who go straight to the public as well as those that use the official whistleblower procedures within their department)...

go bowe
06-06-2006, 03:12 AM
I can't argue with you since I havn't seen the "Vagina Monologues."

Since you seem to be an expert on the subject I can only assume that you did.don't be so serious, you'll get old before your time...

it was better (more original at least) than calling you a sandy mangina...

sometimes your rhetoric gets a little sandy and it's hard not to poke a little fun at it...

and yes, i have seen the vagina monologues and it is an interesting show, but a bit overmuch for me, i'm not quite that much of a strident feminist...

anyway, it just seemed like an appropos rejoinder to patteeu's poetry remark...

no offense intended (well, not a lot of offense intended)...

penchief
06-08-2006, 06:39 PM
don't be so serious, you'll get old before your time...

it was better (more original at least) than calling you a sandy mangina...

sometimes your rhetoric gets a little sandy and it's hard not to poke a little fun at it...

and yes, i have seen the vagina monologues and it is an interesting show, but a bit overmuch for me, i'm not quite that much of a strident feminist...

anyway, it just seemed like an appropos rejoinder to patteeu's poetry remark...

no offense intended (well, not a lot of offense intended)...

Actually, I was joking, too. I'm guilty of not using smilies at the appropriate time. I didn't take your comments as serious. I was only responding in my own dry way.