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nychief
06-08-2006, 04:22 PM
http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/so-weve-got-some-affidavit-names-179400.php

2006
So ... We've Got Some Affidavit Names

pujolsblue.jpgEveryone’s guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we’ve been digging around … and some sources have given us some names.

How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can’t go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We’ll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we’re at an 8.

So. Let’s do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.

First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That’s former Royals general manager Allard Baird.

As many people have guessed, one of the “former players” who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn’t confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.

Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We’ve heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can’t confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.

Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source.. Later, this source provided him with “amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.” This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based “strength and conditioning guru.” (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)

Does Mihlfeld’s name sound familiar? If it doesn’t, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols’ personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols’ name is in the affidavit … but Mihlfeld’s is. If you read the document, it doesn’t say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.

Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we’re told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times.

(UPDATE: OK, we’ve taken our head out of the microwave long enough to update you a bit. First, here’s a blog entry from Mihlfeld’s sister about his friendship with Pujols. And, on a more amusing (and somewhat damning) note, here’s a “diary” Grimsley wrote about his quick recovery from Tommy John surgery. (At MLB.com!) He thanks Mihlfeld for helping him with his recovery.

We repeat: We are not claiming that Pujols has taken HGH. We are simply pointing out that Milhfeld is reportedly mentioned in the affidavit, and that he has connections to be Grimsley and Pujols. Now, if you’ll excuse us, we’re going to go back to our silent screams of pain.)

chief2000
06-08-2006, 04:25 PM
wow.

How do they test for HGH ?

Mecca
06-08-2006, 04:26 PM
wow.

How do they test for HGH ?

It's basically impossible....since HGH is in your bloodstream to begin with.

Reaper16
06-08-2006, 04:29 PM
I just read that by way of Royalboard and was just about to post the same link.

I was never one to think Pujols was juicing, but this has to be looked into. These things usually aren't coincidences. Scary.

Short Leash Hootie
06-08-2006, 04:34 PM
I think if any player hits more than 10 HR's in a month, they should automatically be considered a 'cheater' until proven otherwise!

BigRedChief
06-08-2006, 04:37 PM
Sweeney, Pujols and Jason all have the same off season trainer. Thats the only connection.

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 04:38 PM
My guess is he is juicing. He was on pace to break Bonds' HR record. Guys just don't hit 70 HRs unless they are juiced.

I thought Bonds was being unfairly singled out as an abuser. Bonds has been essentially the best player in the league since he entered the league a long time ago, and the chemicals turned him into Superman...Off the roids, Sammy Sosa isn't even the league any more.

By the way, what do you guys think about steroids for a pitcher coming off of arm surgery. There is no doubt he'll heal faster. I think injured players should be able to use it under controlled conditions.

nychief
06-08-2006, 04:44 PM
Sweeney, Pujols and Jason all have the same off season trainer. Thats the only connection.


great. so, never mind. no need to be concerned.

Mecca
06-08-2006, 04:44 PM
I think baseball has alot more and bigger problems than guys doing roids and HGH. There are always going to be guys who do this in every sport it's personally not a huge deal to me.

Reaper16
06-08-2006, 04:45 PM
great. so, never mind. no need to be concerned.
ROFL

JBucc
06-08-2006, 04:47 PM
If this HGH stuff is so rampant in baseball I wonder how many NFL guys are using it? My guess would be quite a bit of them.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 04:48 PM
I can't imagine this comes as a big surprise to many people. Pujols came to mind immediately for me yesterday after Grimsley's outing, as I (like many I'm sure) have continued to wonder how the hell he was cranking out all the HR's over the past few years. It's really sad how the MLB record books are now essentially worthless for the past 10 years' stats. It will be interesting to see this unforld, and how MLB tries to spin things back in control (whenever the last time that was). The amount of integrity and good faith that MLB has lost over the past several years is astronomical.

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 04:53 PM
I don't see how baseball is ever going to stop this. It's obvious that there is tremendous value in getting juiced up. No sooner will baseball develop a test for one substance, when a chemist will bake up a new substance.

The question that no one addresses is if it makes baseball players so much better....improves coordination, improves vision...perhaps we all should be on it? (Probably not the dosage that Bonds is on though...my head is big enough already.)

Mecca
06-08-2006, 04:56 PM
I don't see how baseball is ever going to stop this. It's obvious that there is tremendous value in getting juiced up. No sooner will baseball develop a test for one substance, when a chemist will bake up a new substance.

The question that no one addresses is if it makes baseball players so much better....improves coordination, improves vision...perhaps we all should be on it? (Probably not the dosage that Bonds is on though...my head is big enough already.)

Tell me there aren't numerous guys in the NFL using this too......I see alot more things that are frankly unnatural go on with football players than baseball players. Let's talk about 250lb men running 40's in the 4.4 range while putting up ridiculous bench reps.

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 04:58 PM
Tell me there aren't numerous guys in the NFL using this too......I see alot more things that are frankly unnatural go on with football players than baseball players. Let's talk about 250lb men running 40's in the 4.4 range while putting up ridiculous bench reps.

Oh yeah, I don't know why the feds are singling out Bonds and baseball. I don't there is a test for HGH at all.

JBucc
06-08-2006, 05:00 PM
Oh yeah, I don't know why the feds are singling out Bonds and baseball. I don't there is a test for HGH at all.
I don't think there is. They were talking about taking blood samples and saving them until there is a test that detects it.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 05:06 PM
The recent HGH revelation makes me feel as if the whole steroids issue has been just another example of MLB and its players' union playing a sick game with its fanbase. Clearly, Seling and Fehr have known aboutt the HGH issue, but have focused their bright lights on steroids (and conveniently forgotton to focus efforts on HGH becasue it was not on everyone's radar) to make it look like they were making an effort to clean up the game. If Grimsley hadn't have been busted, who knows how long they would have turned their heads to the HGH problem. The entire bunch of greedy people involved in MLB jsut sickens me. I hope Congress gets involved and shuts down these liars, until they can really come clean and put legitimate testing in place and restore the GAME (it still is after all a game isn't it?) to a reasonable facsimile of what it used to be. Just a bunch of greedy, pathetic people.

nychief
06-08-2006, 05:08 PM
I say take blood samples from every player, keep them and test them when there is a test for HGH... which is only a matter of time.

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 05:10 PM
The recent HGH revelation makes me feel as if the whole steroids issue has been just another example of MLB and its players' union playing a sick game with its fanbase. Clearly, Seling and Fehr have known aboutt the HGH issue, but have focused their bright lights on steroids (and conveniently forgotton to focus efforts on HGH becasue it was not on everyone's radar) to make it look like they were making an effort to clean up the game. If Grimsley hadn't have been busted, who knows how long they would have turned their heads to the HGH problem. The entire bunch of greedy people involved in MLB jsut sickens me. I hope Congress gets involved and shuts down these liars, until they can really come clean and put legitimate testing in place and restore the GAME (it still is after all a game isn't it?) to a reasonable facsimile of what it used to be. Just a bunch of greedy, pathetic people.

Why is baseball be singled out? If MLB players are using it, so are players from all sports. In fact, if there truly is no test for it (which is what I understand to be the case), my guess is that a higher percentage of NFL players would be on it, opposed to baseball players. I guess we could measure the cranial circumferences of all MLB players vs. NFL players vs. overall average to get a good first guess.

Mecca
06-08-2006, 05:13 PM
Being on non-detectable roids and HGH would help a NFL player alot more than a baseball player. Being just that much more physically dominating is going to do alot more for a football players career than a baseball players who still has to hit the ball first......

So once again tell me which sport likely has more guys using these things?

JBucc
06-08-2006, 05:14 PM
Being on non-detectable roids and HGH would help a NFL player alot more than a baseball player. Being just that much more physically dominating is going to do alot more for a football players career than a baseball players who still has to hit the ball first......

So once again tell me which sport likely has more guys using these things?I bet every lineman linebacker and running back is on the stuff. David Boston too.

ChiefsFire
06-08-2006, 05:15 PM
I say take blood samples from every player, keep them and test them when there is a test for HGH... which is only a matter of time.
there is a test for human growth hormone..the problem is everyone of us would fail the test because its in all of us..naturally

nychief
06-08-2006, 05:15 PM
Being on non-detectable roids and HGH would help a NFL player alot more than a baseball player. Being just that much more physically dominating is going to do alot more for a football players career than a baseball players who still has to hit the ball first......

So once again tell me which sport likely has more guys using these things?


Injury recovery is almost as important.

JBucc
06-08-2006, 05:17 PM
there is a test for human growth hormone..the problem is everyone of us would fail the test because its in all of us..naturallyso we need a way to test levels of it

Mecca
06-08-2006, 05:19 PM
so we need a way to test levels of it

Levels change depending on your age but that's still really shaky because some of us will have more of it than others just because of our genetics.

ChiefsFire
06-08-2006, 05:20 PM
so we need a way to test levels of it
even then its gonna be tough....

anybody can go to a drug store and get a script for HGH with a doctors ok...

my fear is the next wave of HGH users will be players who get some shady MD to knockem out a prescription for this stuff and use the excuse..well the doc says my natural HGH level is low to start and i need these to regulate it...

tk13
06-08-2006, 05:37 PM
Being on non-detectable roids and HGH would help a NFL player alot more than a baseball player. Being just that much more physically dominating is going to do alot more for a football players career than a baseball players who still has to hit the ball first......

So once again tell me which sport likely has more guys using these things?
I've been saying this for years, and years, on this board. I'd almost bet some of these things like HGH are more prevelant in football than baseball. But I always get laughed at because the NFL has "tests". Big deal. HGH has always gone unnoticed though. I think the cover is about to be blown off the whole thing. It'll be interesting to see if they focus on the NFL, I'm amazed no one has even tried to touch that.

That's what Woody Paige said was Tagliabue's greatest accomplishment as commissioner, sweeping the league's performance enhancing drug problem under the rug and making everyone think baseball is the real problem. He has claimed before that he's talked to numerous players who know how to cheat the system with HGH, masking agents, etc. And who knows how many athletes in other sports are doing it too. Athletes in almost every sport are bigger, faster, stronger. Look at how freakish some of these NFL players are. In baseball you at least still have to be able to hit a 90 mph fastball. In football the most important thing is to be faster and stronger than your opponent, unless you're a QB.

jidar
06-08-2006, 05:39 PM
Even though I'm a Royals fan I'd rather not see this. Pujols in addition to being a really likable guy is good for baseball, someone who might not be on the juice having a shot at records is exactly what the sport needs.

jidar
06-08-2006, 05:41 PM
I've been saying this for years, and years, on this board. I'd almost bet some of these things like HGH are more prevelant in football than baseball. But I always get laughed at because the NFL has "tests". Big deal. HGH has always gone unnoticed though. I think the cover is about to be blown off the whole thing. It'll be interesting to see if they focus on the NFL, I'm amazed no one has even tried to touch that.



You know what, I just don't care. I can't explain why but I've never given a shit that steroids are all over the NFL. Most people I know are the same way. I guess maybe I just assume all those NFL guys are giant freaks anyway so what difference does it make if they're juicing? I'm not surprised that they are.

The guys juicing to break homerun records though, it's just such blatant cheating. I don't know why it pisses me off and the other doesn't, but that's how it is.

Mr. Laz
06-08-2006, 05:42 PM
It's basically impossible....since HGH is in your bloodstream to begin with.
i believe in olympic events and the bicycle tour they test regularly and athletes actually test positive if the HGH level spikes above their normal level.

that why that magazine was saying that Lance armstrong was positive from a test way back 3 or 4 years ago ... they were trying to test it for HGH without a base sample or something.


to get rid of HGH, baseball would have to regularly test EVERY player EVERY year.

Mecca
06-08-2006, 05:44 PM
You know what, I just don't care. I can't explain why but I've never given a shit that steroids are all over the NFL. Most people I know are the same way. I guess maybe I just assume all those NFL guys are giant freaks anyway so what difference does it make if they're juicing? I'm not surprised that they are.

The guys juicing to break homerun records though, it's just such blatant cheating. I don't know why it pisses me off and the other doesn't, but that's how it is.

That's great logic so it's ok in football but not in baseball.......Personally I really don't care either way to be honest.

tk13
06-08-2006, 05:46 PM
You know what, I just don't care. I can't explain why but I've never given a shit that steroids are all over the NFL. Most people I know are the same way. I guess maybe I just assume all those NFL guys are giant freaks anyway so what difference does it make if they're juicing? I'm not surprised that they are.

The guys juicing to break homerun records though, it's just such blatant cheating. I don't know why it pisses me off and the other doesn't, but that's how it is.
There's no difference really. That's just being hypocritical. If a RB broke the rushing record and it turned out he was on something, it'd be the same thing. Heck, there are people who will swear up and down the 70's Steelers dynasty was hopped up on steroids. That's maybe the greatest team in football history.

ChiefsFire
06-08-2006, 05:46 PM
i believe in olympic events and the bicycle tour they test regularly and athletes actually test positive if the HGH level spikes above their normal level.

that why that magazine was saying that Lance armstrong was positive from a test way back 3 or 4 years ago ... they were trying to test it for HGH without a base sample or something.


to get rid of HGH, baseball would have to regularly test EVERY player EVERY year.
dead on with the last part Laz...the next problem i see though is,the tests will haveta be done on some sort of regular interval..that means these guys will have an idea when these tests will be...hard to be random

Mecca
06-08-2006, 05:48 PM
There's no difference really. It's just being hypocritical.

He basically cements a perception and truth that is out there with alot of people. Baseball at it's heart is a stats game and alot of people get really mad when they think about someone cheating to get better stats and break precious records.

Football on the other hand isn't viewed as a stats game like baseball is so the idea of guys using performance enhancing drugs doesn't make them near as upset because they can say something like "what record is an offensive lineman going to break?".

Ari Chi3fs
06-08-2006, 05:49 PM
i have been injecting HGH into my dick, and so far the results have been minimal. I will post pictures, though.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 05:50 PM
Even though I'm a Royals fan I'd rather not see this. Pujols in addition to being a really likable guy is good for baseball, someone who might not be on the juice having a shot at records is exactly what the sport needs.

That's exactly how the big wigs at MLB feel, and IMO they have done a good job at trying to sell that fairy tale to their fans. Unfortunatley for them, and us, Pujols has most likely "achieved" his stats by cheating.

As for football, I agree that they are probably just as guilty, and they are no better. I think the issue is magnified for baseball because the owners/players union have found so many other ways to screw up and damage the sport, thaat people have tired of their act, and look at steroids etc. as a way to vent at them.

Mecca
06-08-2006, 05:51 PM
i have been injecting HGH into my dick, and so far the results have been minimal. I will post pictures, though.

Trying to get that career in porn going huh.

WilliamTheIrish
06-08-2006, 06:08 PM
Hmm. Well I like AP.

On the other hand, I generally dislike Cardinal fans. Not all of them. But a handful of them on this board do make it difficult for the rest.

Cards fans have been [crickets] since Grimmace threatened to "Name names."

Could be that they are all speechless. Or stunned. OR they are still holding their collective breaths and stamping their feet as Dan Patrick and ESPN radio portray Prince Albert in a poor light.

penchief
06-08-2006, 06:37 PM
I can't imagine this comes as a big surprise to many people. Pujols came to mind immediately for me yesterday after Grimsley's outing, as I (like many I'm sure) have continued to wonder how the hell he was cranking out all the HR's over the past few years. It's really sad how the MLB record books are now essentially worthless for the past 10 years' stats. It will be interesting to see this unforld, and how MLB tries to spin things back in control (whenever the last time that was). The amount of integrity and good faith that MLB has lost over the past several years is astronomical.


Good post. I agree that steroids and HGH are an important issue. Baseball is a game of tradition. It is the game's tradition that is being threatened. Those records have been as big a part of the game's lore as anything else. I blame the league as much as I blame the players. I think the league turned a blind eye to steroid use when all those homers were economically convenient.

Miles
06-08-2006, 07:51 PM
I have seen some fake looking copys of the affidavit floating around today which list Thome, Pujols, Derrick Lee, and Lidge. Its completly pure specuation at this point since as far as I know the names from the document that were redacted have been announced by any news source.

nychief
06-08-2006, 07:54 PM
I have seen some fake looking copys of the affidavit floating around today which list Thome, Pujols, Derrick Lee, and Lidge. Its completly pure specuation at this point since as far as I know the names from the document that were redacted have been announced by any news source.

This article does not mention Pujols, but his trainer for many, many years.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 08:11 PM
Thank you Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire. Now the onus of blame is always placed upon the best players of the game. What no one seems to want to mention is that Pujols is a line-drive hitter, and has always been so. He's also playing in a hitters park, which is something that could not be said for Bonds at Pac-Bell nor McGwire at old Busch (which is right at the median as far as ballparks are concerned according to baseball reference). He's also always been a naturally large man, unlike Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa, who all looked like Twiggy in comparision to their musclebound frame when they broke into the league. Of course everyone is also overlooking the fact that Pujols played in a lineup with a great deal of protection which allowed him to see a lot more pitches to hit. I can see why people would want to lump Pujols as a cheater simply because baseball is viewed as dirty and he's unquestionably the best player in the game, but I think to do so is more indicative of the mindset of 24 hour sports news and the desire to always get the scoop or have something to talk about than it is a question of the character of the person in question, which has been impeccable throughout his career.

Saulbadguy
06-08-2006, 08:13 PM
*

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 08:18 PM
One more thing, who do you think is more likely to have cheated, someone who broke into the league hitting well over .300 with 40 homerun power, or guys like David Ortiz and Derrek Lee. Ortiz's homerun totals in the Metrodome (which is a hitter's park) were 1, 9, 0, 10, 18, 20. He gets to Boston and then goes 31, 41, 47. His OPS in Boston also jumped over 150 points in comparison to his past. Lee suddenly has a 60 point jump in his BA, a 200 point jump in his OPS and hits 50% more homeruns than he ever has before??

nychief
06-08-2006, 08:20 PM
I can see why people would want to lump Pujols as a cheater simply because baseball is viewed as dirty and he's unquestionably the best player in the game, but I think to do so is more indicative of the mindset of 24 hour sports news and the desire to always get the scoop or have something to talk about than it is a question of the character of the person in question, which has been impeccable throughout his career.


Pujols is the best HITTER, but I think you can make some arguments for best all round player. And, the character of the person has nothing to do with it. It is his He-Man body that draws attention, hits home runs, drives in runs and gets people to the ballpark - not his personality. It is not like there hasn't been a culture of performance inhanced players for the cards before, you mentioned Mac - I don't think this is an A-to-Z jump here.

mcan
06-08-2006, 08:21 PM
I liken this whole situation to walking around the grocery store and pointing at something and yelling "FOOD' at the top of your lungs.

Drugs and sports, love and marriage, burgers and fries...

nychief
06-08-2006, 08:21 PM
One more thing, who do you think is more likely to have cheated, someone who broke into the league hitting well over .300 with 40 homerun power, or guys like David Ortiz and Derrek Lee. Ortiz's homerun totals in the Metrodome (which is a hitter's park) were 1, 9, 0, 10, 18, 20. He gets to Boston and then goes 31, 41, 47. His OPS in Boston also jumped over 150 points in comparison to his past. Lee suddenly has a 60 point jump in his BA, a 200 point jump in his OPS and hits 50% more homeruns than he ever has before??


Jesus you are transparent. You are a Pu-daddy fan, which is great - and easy, but this should be something you are concerned about as a baseball fan.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 08:29 PM
Pujols is the best HITTER, but I think you can make some arguments for best all round player. And, the character of the person has nothing to do with it. It is his He-Man body that draws attention, hits home runs, drives in runs and gets people to the ballpark - not his personality. It is not like there hasn't been a culture of performance inhanced players for the cards before, you mentioned Mac - I don't think this is an A-to-Z jump here.

McGwire's Rookie Card.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/mcgwire87tp.jpg

McGwire towards the end of his careeer

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2004/03/12/1079096939_2595.jpg

Pujols' Rookie Card

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/pujolsud.jpg

Pujols Last Night is attached.

I see a massive difference between the two subjects.

nychief
06-08-2006, 08:31 PM
Hamas - did you read the article? It says he has been with this trainer since he was at Maple Woods - pre-draft - pre cardinals.

tk13
06-08-2006, 08:32 PM
McGwire still holds the rookie record for home runs. He buffed up, as did the rest of the league, but he was already a big time home run hitter.

nychief
06-08-2006, 08:32 PM
Does Mihlfeld’s name sound familiar? If it doesn’t, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols’ personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft.


for what it is worth.

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 08:38 PM
McGwire's Rookie Card.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/mcgwire87tp.jpg

McGwire towards the end of his careeer

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2004/03/12/1079096939_2595.jpg

Pujols' Rookie Card

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/pujolsud.jpg

Pujols Last Night is attached.

I see a massive difference between the two subjects.

McGwire and Bonds came up pre-juice. They took juice, they got bigger. Pujols came up post-juice, was already big, and has been training with this chemical specialist for a long time. Hmmmmm....

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 08:46 PM
McGwire and Bonds came up pre-juice. They took juice, they got bigger. Pujols came up post-juice, was already big, and has been training with this chemical specialist for a long time. Hmmmmm....

Because god knows, it's easy for a 13th rounder from a dirt poor family to afford to get ahold of this shit as well as get the connections to use it since no one even knew his name until his amazing rookie year in 2001. Bonds and McGwire didn't come up pre-juice. Athletes have been juicing for over 30 years. Their bodies are proof of what it does. I have first hand knowledge of what Pujols was built like in high school (my college roommate of 3 years played for Olathe South when Pujols was at Fort Osage). There is no difference between his build then and now.

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 08:46 PM
WOW.....www.deadspin.com says AP's trainer was associated with Grimsley, making AP guilty of taking HGH.

I say again: www.deadspin.com. A beacon of journalistic integrity. I turn to them for my news needs...always more reliable than ESPN, SI, hell the Associated Press.

:banghead:

I know Royals fans hate the Cardinals, but c'mon.

Thanks to Bonds, McGwire and Palmiero, innocent until proven guilty no longer exists. You people have deemed him guilty based solely on his ability, and an article from some internet hack.

When there's grand jury testimony implicating him, he puts on 30 pounds in 3 months, and there's a mountain of evidence against him....doping schedules, receipts and the like......

Then we can compare him to Bonds.

Until then, dude's innocent. And still the best player in the game.

Haters.

tk13
06-08-2006, 08:50 PM
WOW.....www.deadspin.com says AP's trainer was associated with Grimsley, making AP guilty of taking HGH.

I say again: www.deadspin.com. A beacon of journalistic integrity. I turn to them for my news needs...always more reliable than ESPN, SI, hell the Associated Press.

:banghead:

I know Royals fans hate the Cardinals, but c'mon.

Thanks to Bonds, McGwire and Palmiero, innocent until proven guilty no longer exists. You people have deemed him guilty based solely on his ability, and an article from some internet hack.

When there's grand jury testimony implicating him, he puts on 30 pounds in 3 months, and there's a mountain of evidence against him....doping schedules, receipts and the like......

Then we can compare him to Bonds.

Until then, dude's innocent. And still the best player in the game.

Haters.
Actually, I hope he's not on it. That would be a disaster. I've read a few Royals fans who hope he's not on anything. Since he's a KC guy I think you'll get more support from the KC area than the rest of the league really.

Reporters are going to be breathing down his neck either way. I think Buster Olney had already done a column acting suspicious before this news even broke. Royals fans are the least of your problems. There are probably a lot of other fans (Cubs, Astros, yadda yadda) rooting for him to fail way more than the Royals fans. Not to mention ESPN and all the other news outlets who are going to be dogging him hard now.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 08:51 PM
Hamas - did you read the article? It says he has been with this trainer since he was at Maple Woods - pre-draft - pre cardinals.

Check out my above post. That should clarify.

Miles
06-08-2006, 08:52 PM
Because god knows, it's easy for a 13th rounder from a dirt poor family to afford to get ahold of this shit as well as get the connections to use it since no one even knew his name until his amazing rookie year in 2001. Bonds and McGwire didn't come up pre-juice. Athletes have been juicing for over 30 years. Their bodies are proof of what it does. I have first hand knowledge of what Pujols was built like in high school (my college roommate of 3 years played for Olathe South when Pujols was at Fort Osage). There is no difference between his build then and now.

I bet he got it from George Brett when he was growing up since he couldn't afford it. I heard Brett was a good guy that way. I have nothing to prove this, but you know it could have happened.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 08:53 PM
Actually, I hope he's not on it. That would be a disaster. I've read a few Royals fans who hope he's not on anything. Since he's a KC guy I think you'll get more support from the KC area than the rest of the league really.

Reporters are going to be breathing down his neck either way. I think Buster Olney had already done a column acting suspicious before this news even broke. Royals fans are the least of your problems. There are probably a lot of other fans (Cubs, Astros, yadda yadda) rooting for him to fail way more than the Royals fans.

Cubs fans and Astros fans should know to shut the f*ck up before they accuse anyone. For every Pujols and McGwire, they have Derrek Lee and Sosa, Clemens and Bagwell, or even the sudden transformation of a piece of shit like Lance Berkman into a legitimate HR threat. Of course a lot of that has to due with the bullshit park he plays in that a paunching Judy bitch of a hitter could go yard in.

Olney's also a Yankee lover, so perhaps those who live in flaxseed oil houses (Sheffield, Giambi), shouldn't throw stones.

nychief
06-08-2006, 08:58 PM
I don't want AP to be on steroids, you big baby. I think sticking your head in the sand is ****ing stupid though. I hope to hell that AP is clean he is awesome to watch.

Switched at birth?http://gittler.net/images/uploads/pujols.jpg
http://castlearchives.tripod.com/Pictures/he-man_l.jpg

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 09:01 PM
Actually, I hope he's not on it. That would be a disaster. I've read a few Royals fans who hope he's not on anything. Since he's a KC guy I think you'll get more support from the KC area than the rest of the league really.

Reporters are going to be breathing down his neck either way. I think Buster Olney had already done a column acting suspicious before this news even broke. Royals fans are the least of your problems. There are probably a lot of other fans (Cubs, Astros, yadda yadda) rooting for him to fail way more than the Royals fans. Not to mention ESPN and all the other news outlets who are going to be dogging him hard now.

I guess I singled out Royals fans because they hate the Cards, and that's who's here for the most part.

The shame is, this goes for the whole league. All it takes is some hack to even suggest that Pujols (or any other player) is on the juice, and because of the past couple of years (both his success, and the Bonds fiasco) he's automatically guilty. AP's career has been marred because some idiot thought he could sell more papers, internet subscriptions or get more airtime reporting this crap. All without ANY proof.

Of course their going to go after the best player in the game. It wouldn't be sensational media to say it's some schmuck from Tampa Bay.

Miles
06-08-2006, 09:03 PM
I don't want AP to be on steroids, you big baby. I think sticking your head in the sand is ****ing stupid though. I hope to hell that AP is clean he is awesome to watch.

Switched at birth?http://gittler.net/images/uploads/pujols.jpg
http://castlearchives.tripod.com/Pictures/he-man_l.jpg

If you look at it the evidence is quite damning. He was on a great HR pace until he got hurt. Injuries clearly point to steriod use. On top of that he is named in a photoshopped affidavit.

WilliamTheIrish
06-08-2006, 09:04 PM
McGwire still holds the rookie record for home runs. He buffed up, as did the rest of the league, but he was already a big time home run hitter.

Yes he was. Bill James described McGwire and Canseco as two "huge" rookies in his Baseball Abstract of '85 or '86?

And those f'ers were huge. To me. At the time.

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:04 PM
I have first hand knowledge of what Pujols was built like in high school (my college roommate of 3 years played for Olathe South when Pujols was at Fort Osage). There is no difference between his build then and now.


What are you talking about? I watched him play at Maple Woods where he was drafted, he was playing SHORTSTOP, and he did not have the body he has now. But why would he? He was 18 years old. As for the money, you can get steroids in almost any gym in America - it is not an past time of the wealthy. You are coming off desperate, and there is no need to. This is just a connection between a trainer and a athlete, that is all. It is just interesting. Remember that is how they started in on Bonds too. I hope this is just a coincidence.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 09:10 PM
Cubs fans and Astros fans should know to shut the f*ck up before they accuse anyone. For every Pujols and McGwire, they have Derrek Lee and Sosa, Clemens and Bagwell, or even the sudden transformation of a piece of shit like Lance Berkman into a legitimate HR threat. Of course a lot of that has to due with the bullshit park he plays in that a paunching Judy bitch of a hitter could go yard in.

Olney's also a Yankee lover, so perhaps those who live in flaxseed oil houses (Sheffield, Giambi), shouldn't throw stones.

Hamas,

Connect the dots with the trainer. I have, and will continue to do so as have many others. In fact, at this point, I consider all of the big HR hitters in MLB as "dirty" until proven otherwise. These people )MLB players and owners have played their fans as fools for too long and I am done giving them the benefit of the doubt - they don't deserve it any longer. I haven't bought a ticket to Major League Fraudball for several years, and will continue as such until they eliminate the WWF aspect that pervades the game. What a pathetic example for the youth of our society these guys have become.

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 09:15 PM
This is just a connection between a trainer and a athlete, that is all. It is just interesting. Remember that is how they started in on Bonds too. I hope this is just a coincidence.

Actually, they started in on Bonds because Anderson was a KNOWN steroid dealer. And they found doping schedules. And he put on 30 pounds of pure muscle in the offseason. And his hat size increased by an astronomical amount.

Some hack writing in his mother's basement writes an article for some low-rent website, and people take it as gospel.

The shame of it is, Pujols, and every other player that is SPECULATED to be part of this have no way to clear their name. There is no test for HGH.

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:17 PM
Actually, they started in on Bonds because Anderson was a KNOWN steroid dealer. And they found doping schedules. And he put on 30 pounds of pure muscle in the offseason. And his hat size increased by an astronomical amount.

Some hack writing in his mother's basement writes an article for some low-rent website, and people take it as gospel.

The shame of it is, Pujols, and every other player that is SPECULATED to be part of this have no way to clear their name. There is no test for HGH.

Lets just see how how this shakes out. I am sure Pujols won't have to return is Nobel prize.

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 09:22 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that if this report had ANY validity to it, the major networks would be reporting this so-called connection?

I should start a website and claim that Miss Cleo told me that A-Rod, Ortiz, Manny, D-Lee, Adam Dunn, Ryan Howard and Ken Griffey Jr. were all named on the affidavit.

I guess that's all we need to convict someone around here.......

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:23 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that if this report had ANY validity to it, the major networks would be reporting this so-called connection?

I should start a website and claim that Miss Cleo told me that A-Rod, Ortiz, Manny, D-Lee, Adam Dunn, Ryan Howard and Ken Griffey Jr. were all named on the affidavit.

I guess that's all we need to convict someone around here.......


you are right. he is clean.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 09:23 PM
Actually, they started in on Bonds because Anderson was a KNOWN steroid dealer. And they found doping schedules. And he put on 30 pounds of pure muscle in the offseason. And his hat size increased by an astronomical amount.

Some hack writing in his mother's basement writes an article for some low-rent website, and people take it as gospel.

The shame of it is, Pujols, and every other player that is SPECULATED to be part of this have no way to clear their name. There is no test for HGH.

It's somewhat poetic that they can't clear their names. They found a loophole substance, and it is cutting the other way, isn't it? I wish I felt more sorry for them, but I don't.

By the way, has anyone seen Selig or Fehr in the last 48 hours. I haven't. I suspect they are conjuring up some kind of BS response to placate their lemming fan base, what's left of it.

Miles
06-08-2006, 09:23 PM
There is no test for HGH.

I am not really sure if there is not. At least the were talking about it on ESPN radio, a blood test is what would be needed.

WilliamTheIrish
06-08-2006, 09:24 PM
I like watching Cards fans stamp their feet and hold their breath.

Funny stuff.

DomerNKC
06-08-2006, 09:24 PM
What are you talking about? I watched him play at Maple Woods where he was drafted, he was playing SHORTSTOP, and he did not have the body he has now. But why would he? He was 18 years old. As for the money, you can get steroids in almost any gym in America - it is not an past time of the wealthy. You are coming off desperate, and there is no need to. This is just a connection between a trainer and a athlete, that is all. It is just interesting. Remember that is how they started in on Bonds too. I hope this is just a coincidence.Wasn't Mihlfeld his coach at Maple Woods?

Brock
06-08-2006, 09:27 PM
Why would anyone be surprised by this?

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:29 PM
Wasn't Mihlfeld his coach at Maple Woods?

I know they met there. This is from sporting news article:

"Last October 20, one day after the Cardinals were eliminated from the NLCS, Pujols was on the phone with Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City trainer who works with Pujols in the offseason. "Chris," he said, "we need to work on my situational hitting." Situational hitting? Pujols had just finished a season in which he hit .329 with runners in scoring position."

"That certainty is deep-rooted, says Marty Kilgore, who recruited Pujols to Maple Woods Community College in Kansas City. (Mihlfeld left to work in the minor leagues before Pujols' only college season.) A chunk of the Pujols legend was crafted at Maple Woods in 1999. He had met his future wife, Deidre, while still at Fort Osage High in Independence and was looking for the fastest path to the big leagues without leaving the area."

DomerNKC
06-08-2006, 09:32 PM
I know Chris personally. I have known him since he was in the eighth grade. I just have not kept touch with him. If this is true, it would be a shame. He was always a stud.

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 09:33 PM
you are right. he is clean.

Dumbass.

I never said, for fact, he's clean. No one knows that but Albert. However, it's people who have the same shitty attitude you have who want to convict someone without all the facts.

You're no better than the guy who "wrote" that article.

You posted an article, from a low rent website, making a complete GUESS as to who might be part of the affidavit....knowing it would start a shitstorm and draw attention to yourself, and negative attention to Pujols. All the while knowing that it hadn't been reported ANYWHERE else, because the major news services usually like to verify facts as opposed to throwing darts.

When a legitimate news organization comes out and says they have sources/facts that AP was involved, not pure speculation, I'll "pull my head out of the sand".

You should pull yours out of your ass.

4th and Long
06-08-2006, 09:34 PM
Now kids, ... play nice.

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 09:40 PM
Now kids, ... play nice.

The funny thing is, and of course no one will believe it, but I'd be doing this for any other player.

I've been slandered, and had my name and reputation drug through the mud without cause. It's not fun. There's nothing worse than having to defend yourself when you've done nothing wrong, all because someone wants to make some money, or a name for him/herself, etc.

If it ever happened to any of these guys, they'd probably be singing a different tune also.......

Valiant
06-08-2006, 09:41 PM
I can't imagine this comes as a big surprise to many people. Pujols came to mind immediately for me yesterday after Grimsley's outing, as I (like many I'm sure) have continued to wonder how the hell he was cranking out all the HR's over the past few years. It's really sad how the MLB record books are now essentially worthless for the past 10 years' stats. It will be interesting to see this unforld, and how MLB tries to spin things back in control (whenever the last time that was). The amount of integrity and good faith that MLB has lost over the past several years is astronomical.


To Pujols credit he has always been crushing the ball, but thats more because he was 5+ years older then everybody at HS and CC...

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:48 PM
Dumbass.

I never said, for fact, he's clean. No one knows that but Albert. However, it's people who have the same shitty attitude you have who want to convict someone without all the facts.

You're no better than the guy who "wrote" that article.

You posted an article, from a low rent website, making a complete GUESS as to who might be part of the affidavit....knowing it would start a shitstorm and draw attention to yourself, and negative attention to Pujols. All the while knowing that it hadn't been reported ANYWHERE else, because the major news services usually like to verify facts as opposed to throwing darts.

When a legitimate news organization comes out and says they have sources/facts that AP was involved, not pure speculation, I'll "pull my head out of the sand".

You should pull yours out of your ass.


First of learn to "use" quotation marks,"moron." Deadspin is read nationally, how do I know this? I have left Missouri. Do you know where I was told about the Deadspin article? In the News Room of one of the countries biggest newspapers. So, as "crazy" as it sounds. This story might have some legs. Now, I understand that you don't want to entertain the idea of "your" hero being dirty - "but" the story simply says that they have been told that Pujols long time trainer name has been mentioned in this story.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0607061grimsley14.html

Take if "for" what you will.


But, don't act like a child whose toy has been taken away from him.

Valiant
06-08-2006, 09:50 PM
What are you talking about? I watched him play at Maple Woods where he was drafted, he was playing SHORTSTOP, and he did not have the body he has now. But why would he? He was 18 years old. As for the money, you can get steroids in almost any gym in America - it is not an past time of the wealthy. You are coming off desperate, and there is no need to. This is just a connection between a trainer and a athlete, that is all. It is just interesting. Remember that is how they started in on Bonds too. I hope this is just a coincidence.


NYChief, As much as I hate agreeing with hamas... He is correct, Pujols was huge in college... How do I know, I had classes with him there and at Maple Woods...

Also extra FYI, former wnba mvp betty lennox went to Fort Osage also.. ok ok, its girl basketball and it sucks, but it is like Kansas and MIssouri fans bragging about winning another table tennis championship...

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:51 PM
[QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58]I've been slandered, and had my name and reputation drug through the mud without cause. It's not fun. There's nothing worse than having to defend yourself when you've done nothing wrong, all because someone wants to make some money, or a name for him/herself, etc./QUOTE]

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nychief
06-08-2006, 09:53 PM
NYChief, As much as I hate agreeing with hamas... He is correct, Pujols was huge in college... How do I know, I had classes with him there and at Maple Woods...

Also extra FYI, former wnba mvp betty lennox went to Fort Osage also.. ok ok, its girl basketball and it sucks, but it is like Kansas and MIssouri fans bragging about winning another table tennis championship...


I took classes at Weeds also, a couple years earlier. He was big, but not like he is now - but, i'll say it again - he was 18. I am a fan of Albert, because he is from KC and he is a bad ass. But, I can't take the ****ing whining over a news story. Lets just see what happens.

Valiant
06-08-2006, 09:53 PM
McGwire and Bonds came up pre-juice. They took juice, they got bigger. Pujols came up post-juice, was already big, and has been training with this chemical specialist for a long time. Hmmmmm....


I am not going to say one way or another if he is juicing now, but in HS creatine was made freely available for us in the weight room for all athletes... Hell our Oline averaged over 300+lbs and had guys benching 400lbs in highschool as linebackers our defense sucked something fierce though...

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 09:54 PM
Yeah, Ted Williams must have been on the juice too......

First 5 seasons:

Batting Avg: .327, .344, .406, .356, .342
HR 44, 43, 33, 34, 37
RBI 145 113 120 137 123

Pujols first 5 seasons:

Batting Avg: .329, .314, .359, .331, .330
HR 37 34 43 46 41
RBI 130 127 124 123 117

Yep, Pujols has really been crankin' those HR's, he must be on something.......

TALENT.

Innocent until proven guilty.

nychief
06-08-2006, 09:55 PM
I am not going to say one way or another if he is juicing now, but in HS creatine was made freely available for us in the weight room for all athletes... Hell our Oline averaged over 300+lbs and had guys benching 400lbs in highschool as linebackers our defense sucked something fierce though...

But wait, I thought only rich people used steroids. You know the tradional way to injest steroids is on top of pan seared Foie Gras.

WilliamTheIrish
06-08-2006, 09:56 PM
But wait, I thought only rich people used steroids. You know the tradional way to injest steroids is on top of pan seared Foie Gras.

ROFL

Valiant
06-08-2006, 09:58 PM
I took classes at Weeds also, a couple years earlier. He was big, but not like he is now - but, i'll say it again - he was 18. I am a fan of Albert, because he is from KC and he is a bad ass. But, I can't take the ****ing whining over a news story. Lets just see what happens.


Ok, he has never been 18 and playing baseball in this state... The big shocker is Pujols is over 30...


As for him being big before and being bigger now... I hit the gym regularly 2-4 times a week.. I am over 230lbs now, I am considered huge from my weight of 180 lbs when i graduated HS at Fort O... It is possible to get that big, I am not saying he hasn't used steroids but his jump from Maple Woods to now is that noticable as you lead on...

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 09:58 PM
To Pujols credit he has always been crushing the ball, but thats more because he was 5+ years older then everybody at HS and CC...

Good point. Because of the incessant questions regarding his real age, the possibility of him using HGH seems even more plausible.

This is so MLB - put someone up on a pedestal (see McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero and now Pujols), and annoint them as the leagues poster child for all that is good, only to have it blow up in their faces. I guess I am expecting history to repeat itself, and I expect Albert will mysteriously "never fully recover" from his current injury, and probably lose 30 pounds or so along the way back to being a late round draft pick caliber player. WIll be interesting to watch.

Valiant
06-08-2006, 09:59 PM
But wait, I thought only rich people used steroids. You know the tradional way to injest steroids is on top of pan seared Foie Gras.


What are you babbling about... Creatine was not illegal back in the late 90's... And almost all HS kids use the stuff now, you are reaching on that...

nychief
06-08-2006, 10:01 PM
Good point. Because of the incessant questions regarding his real age, the possibility of him using HGH seems even more plausible.

This is so MLB - put someone up on a pedestal (see McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero and now Pujols), and annoint them as the leagues poster child for all that is good, only to have it blow up in their faces. I guess I am expecting history to repeat itself, and I expect Albert will mysteriously "never fully recover" from his current injury, and probably lose 30 pounds or so along the way back to being a late round draft pick caliber player. WIll be interesting to watch.
:clap: :clap:

Stinger
06-08-2006, 10:02 PM
I like watching Cards fans stamp their feet and hold their breath.

Funny stuff.

You have us confused with Royals fans watching their closer in the 9th inning. :p


By the way nice game for the Royals tonight

nychief
06-08-2006, 10:02 PM
You have us confused with Royals fans watching their closer in the 9th inning. :p

da truth.

Valiant
06-08-2006, 10:04 PM
Good point. Because of the incessant questions regarding his real age, the possibility of him using HGH seems even more plausible.

This is so MLB - put someone up on a pedestal (see McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero and now Pujols), and annoint them as the leagues poster child for all that is good, only to have it blow up in their faces. I guess I am expecting history to repeat itself, and I expect Albert will mysteriously "never fully recover" from his current injury, and probably lose 30 pounds or so along the way back to being a late round draft pick caliber player. WIll be interesting to watch.


The age thing will never really come up with him because he does the smart thing and plays for the media.. He is the good guy, people love him and his desire for the game.. That ****er was in the batting cage year round at Fort, he bleeds baseball.. This is why no one will ever run with it, that and it is impossible to prove since his family is the one that brought the documents over...

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 10:06 PM
First of learn to "use" quotation marks,"moron." Deadspin is read nationally, how do I know this? I have left Missouri. Do you know where I was told about the Deadspin article? In the News Room of one of the countries biggest newspapers. So, as "crazy" as it sounds. This story might have some legs. Now, I understand that you don't want to entertain the idea of "your" hero being dirty - "but" the story simply says that they have been told that Pujols long time trainer name has been mentioned in this story.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0607061grimsley14.html

Take if "for" what you will.


But, don't act like a child whose toy has been taken away from him.


The National Enquirer is read nationally, doesn't make the shit they print fact.

What everyone keeps missing is the use of the words "might", "we've been told" (by who, by the way?) etc....

And as for the story maybe having legs, you obviously spend time in a newsroom, you know damn good and well every media outlet in North America would be on it, including the one you work in.

However, it's nowhere to be found.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 10:10 PM
Hamas,

Connect the dots with the trainer. I have, and will continue to do so as have many others. In fact, at this point, I consider all of the big HR hitters in MLB as "dirty" until proven otherwise. These people )MLB players and owners have played their fans as fools for too long and I am done giving them the benefit of the doubt - they don't deserve it any longer. I haven't bought a ticket to Major League Fraudball for several years, and will continue as such until they eliminate the WWF aspect that pervades the game. What a pathetic example for the youth of our society these guys have become.

And yet you frequent an NFL board when the members of said league are routinely 6"2" 260 pounds and can run a 4.4 40 yard dash, not to mention the astronomical increase in the size of linemen over the last 20 years. If you honestly think that football is not dirtier than baseball, then you are one dumb sonofabitch.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-08-2006, 10:11 PM
You have us confused with Royals fans watching their closer in the 9th inning. :p


By the way nice game for the Royals tonight

The Royals have a closer?

Miles
06-08-2006, 10:12 PM
The age thing will never really come up with him because he does the smart thing and plays for the media.. He is the good guy, people love him and his desire for the game.. That ****er was in the batting cage year round at Fort, he bleeds baseball.. This is why no one will ever run with it, that and it is impossible to prove since his family is the one that brought the documents over...

Everything I have heard about his work ethic is just what you were saying. Another thing about the half assed roid speculation around him is he is kind of big but not huge. Basically a pure hitter that hits HRs when he catches one clean.

If he was considered to be on roids because of his size, every NFL LB would be under question.

T-post Tom
06-08-2006, 10:13 PM
It's basically impossible....since HGH is in your bloodstream to begin with.

Actually, they do have an expensive blood test that can detect synthetic HGH.

nychief
06-08-2006, 10:17 PM
The National Enquirer is read nationally, doesn't make the shit they print fact.

What everyone keeps missing is the use of the words "might", "we've been told" (by who, by the way?) etc....

And as for the story maybe having legs, you obviously spend time in a newsroom, you know damn good and well every media outlet in North America would be on it, including the one you work in.

However, it's nowhere to be found.


You might be right, but I still find it interesting. I don't think that there is anything wrong with entertaining the possibility, what with all the Chiefs news.

Frazod
06-08-2006, 10:17 PM
Yeah, Ted Williams must have been on the juice too......

First 5 seasons:

Batting Avg: .327, .344, .406, .356, .342
HR 44, 43, 33, 34, 37
RBI 145 113 120 137 123

Pujols first 5 seasons:

Batting Avg: .329, .314, .359, .331, .330
HR 37 34 43 46 41
RBI 130 127 124 123 117

Yep, Pujols has really been crankin' those HR's, he must be on something.......

TALENT.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Don't waste your time. There is far too much blind hatred for anything Cardinals-related and general envy of anything or anyone that experiences baseball-related success here for Pujols to ever get the benefit of any doubt.

Glass, it seems, has ruined the Royals fans as surely as he has ruined the Royals. :shake:

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 10:24 PM
And yet you frequent an NFL board when the members of said league are routinely 6"2" 260 pounds and can run a 4.4 40 yard dash, not to mention the astronomical increase in the size of linemen over the last 20 years. If you honestly think that football is not dirtier than baseball, then you are one dumb sonofabitch.

I agree, and what I don't understand is why everyone wants to make Barry Bonds the one fall guy for something that is pervasive in all sports.

And who can blame these guys really...Grimsley, for instance, was toiling around in the minor leagues in the late 1990s...starts taking this stuff, and makes 8 million this decade. Who wouldn't take HGH for 8 million dollar payoff? I really don't blame the guys doing it....it's MLB's responsibility to have effective testing.

FringeNC
06-08-2006, 10:28 PM
You might be right, but I still find it interesting. I don't think that there is anything wrong with entertaining the possibility, what with all the Chiefs news.

Two points: the author of the Deadspin piece is a huge Cardinals fan...and read this article in Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2142937/

OnTheWarpath58
06-08-2006, 10:31 PM
I agree, and what I don't understand is why everyone wants to make Barry Bonds the one fall guy for something that is pervasive in all sports.

He's the fall guy because he lied. There's amountain of evidence against him, yet he's playing the victim. Doesn't help his cause he's an asshole.

Let's face it: Anyone with eyes and common sense knows Bonds is guilty.

We would have never known Palmiero was using until he tested positive. There was no massive weight gain or any real red flags.

Other than Bonds, there's not a guy out there that you could say with 100% accuracy was using. They either come clean (Giambi) or test positive.

Oh yeah, Bonds is also about to break baseball's most hallowed record.

Ari Chi3fs
06-08-2006, 10:31 PM
On another note, if Ted Williams hadnt went to World War II and the Korean War... he would have had 5-6 additional seasons in his PRIME, making him the all time homerun king. See, war sucks.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 10:34 PM
And yet you frequent an NFL board when the members of said league are routinely 6"2" 260 pounds and can run a 4.4 40 yard dash, not to mention the astronomical increase in the size of linemen over the last 20 years. If you honestly think that football is not dirtier than baseball, then you are one dumb sonofabitch.

If you read all of my posts, you will see that I concur that football is likely dirty as well, and you wouldn't have made a fool out of yourself by calling me names. Football's problems don't minimize the debacle that is MLB one iota, as much as you might like it to.
.

StcChief
06-08-2006, 10:47 PM
I guess they need to prove it.

hawkchief
06-08-2006, 10:48 PM
The age thing will never really come up with him because he does the smart thing and plays for the media.. He is the good guy, people love him and his desire for the game.. That ****er was in the batting cage year round at Fort, he bleeds baseball.. This is why no one will ever run with it, that and it is impossible to prove since his family is the one that brought the documents over...

The age issue may never be proven, but here's to wagering that if Pujol's name is part of Grimsley's list, the age issue will get much more airtime than it has previously. IMO, the emporer's clothes (MLB's) are just about around his knees at this point and I think many are going to start demanding straight answers and solutions from Fehr and Selig, or there will be tremendous ramifications to attendance, TV viewership etc.

I get the feeling that the media is tired of being played by these jokers as well, and the likelihood of them giving guys like Pujols free passes because they happen to be nicer than Bonds, and grant interviews, is going to go away as well. If Pujols is implicated in HGH, how dumb do you think he has made hundreds of journalists look along the way?

StcChief
06-08-2006, 10:55 PM
The age issue may never be proven, but here's to wagering that if Pujol's name is part of Grimsley's list, the age issue will get much more airtime than it has previously. IMO, the emporer's clothes (MLB's) are just about around his knees at this point and I think many are going to start demanding straight answers and solutions from Fehr and Selig, or there will be tremendous ramifications to attendance, TV viewership etc.

I get the feeling that the media is tired of being played by these jokers as well, and the likelihood of them giving guys like Pujols free passes because they happen to be nicer than Bonds, and grant interviews, is going to go away as well. If Pujols is implicated in HGH, how dumb do you think he has made hundreds of journalists look along the way?

It doesn't take much. They are pretty stupid bunch anyway.

They Don't check sources in a deadline driven business. To sell anything.

I question everything I read based on the business they are in.

Pasta Giant Meatball
06-08-2006, 11:01 PM
the media wants pujols to be on something and they will run with any breadcrumbs they can to make a story about it.

Demonpenz
06-09-2006, 01:08 AM
[QUOTE=tk13]I've been saying this for years, and years, on this board. I'd almost bet some of these things like HGH are more prevelant in football than baseball. But I always get laughed at because the NFL has "tests". Big deal. HGH has always gone unnoticed though. I think the cover is about to be blown off the whole thing. It'll be interesting to see if they focus on the NFL, I'm amazed no one has even tried to touch that.

I wonder if it is because the stats are way out of porportion and we haven't seen someone do something f-ing that crazy yet in football. Where as in baseball we had guys going upper tank opposite field hitting 40 more hr than the used too. With football I don't see it has such a huge deal because the stats aren't out of wack.

Demonpenz
06-09-2006, 01:15 AM
Somehow i don't care about the steriods in football as much because it has always been dirtier. Broken bones, paralized players on the field and massive amounts of violence. Bigger faster stronger has always been the moto. Baseball gets away with visions of going to the ball park on a nice day with your dad (like i did today). In baseball you are also supposed to win with your mind .... Knowing the situations... not just relying on how hard you can throw, or how far you can hit the ball, but how can you PITCH.... and are you a good hitter. Steriods takes the game and turns it into slow pitch softball where no one steals no one bunts. In football big deal they can do roids all day and they still do the same thing. Knock the shit out of each other.

tk13
06-09-2006, 02:00 AM
[QUOTE=tk13]I've been saying this for years, and years, on this board. I'd almost bet some of these things like HGH are more prevelant in football than baseball. But I always get laughed at because the NFL has "tests". Big deal. HGH has always gone unnoticed though. I think the cover is about to be blown off the whole thing. It'll be interesting to see if they focus on the NFL, I'm amazed no one has even tried to touch that.

I wonder if it is because the stats are way out of porportion and we haven't seen someone do something f-ing that crazy yet in football. Where as in baseball we had guys going upper tank opposite field hitting 40 more hr than the used too. With football I don't see it has such a huge deal because the stats aren't out of wack.
Well, I'm not condoning it because it's illegal, but I've always kinda thought the results of using this stuff is blown out of proportion. Like Bonds, he is far, far from the only person using this stuff, but he's the only one hitting 700 homers. It's not like there are 30 guys knocking down these barriers. There's just one.... and that's because he was the best player in baseball. Now maybe he did get some help here or there but sometimes he gets treated like he's on a different level where he took some kinda super drug or something that made him better than everybody else. To me some guy who hit 200 home runs should be just as guilty as someone who hit 700.

Demonpenz
06-09-2006, 02:01 AM
looking your way brady anderson.............

Demonpenz
06-09-2006, 02:03 AM
Bonds gets treated differently because he is a detached prick to most everyone. If he just would have said please and thank you more people would have loved him because sports fans are forgiving. Me personally I don't care that he is a dick. don't talk to him then

Moooo
06-09-2006, 02:14 AM
Let me tell you something, in this arena, where the shakedown has been so recent in time, most ALL of your good players will have used substances. It's the way it's gonna be. Past Royals have, Past Cardinals have, all of them. Its their job. To us, this is a total loss of integrity. To them, when they're in the lockerrooms and see what's going on, its the way. Some of them wouldn't do it, but I bet you it wasn't due to integrity as much as it was due to fear of being caught.

I could be wrong, but I think when you're a player who is around it every day, it loses all its wrongness and then becomes a simple choice.

Moooo

tk13
06-09-2006, 02:23 AM
Let me tell you something, in this arena, where the shakedown has been so recent in time, most ALL of your good players will have used substances. It's the way it's gonna be. Past Royals have, Past Cardinals have, all of them. Its their job. To us, this is a total loss of integrity. To them, when they're in the lockerrooms and see what's going on, its the way. Some of them wouldn't do it, but I bet you it wasn't due to integrity as much as it was due to fear of being caught.

I could be wrong, but I think when you're a player who is around it every day, it loses all its wrongness and then becomes a simple choice.

Moooo
Well heck, it's just money. We're talking millions of dollars, in all the major sports... football, basketball, baseball. How are you gonna let your big paycheck go down the tubes because some roided up guy jacked a homer off you, or a lineman dominated you all game, causing you to lose your job and potentially lose millions of dollars because he has an advantage.

You can't let that happen. It's like cashing a winning lottery ticket. Most people aren't going to keep their integrity over doing something stupid to cash in.

Moooo
06-09-2006, 02:33 AM
Well heck, it's just money. We're talking millions of dollars, in all the major sports... football, basketball, baseball. How are you gonna let your big paycheck go down the tubes because some roided up guy jacked a homer off you, or a lineman dominated you all game, causing you to lose your job and potentially lose millions of dollars because he has an advantage.

You can't let that happen. It's like cashing a winning lottery ticket. Most people aren't going to keep their integrity over doing something stupid to cash in.

Yeah, exactly! I mean if someone went up to me at work and told me I could make an extra MILLION a year (which is what the jump from AAA to majors is a lot of times), if I injected a substance which couldn't be detected with the available measures the governing body had, I'd be all over that! It's not integrity, its a simple choice.

What they SHOULD do is allow all of them to use it, and let all these performance companies come out with better designer steroids. Then, when they come to bat, they can list what stack they're on underneath their batting average or ERA.

"Jones is batting about .330 right now, and since recycling back on to his deca stack has seen a sharp increase in his numbers. Smith on the mound has seen a sharp decrease in his numbers ever since getting some huge bitchtits due to his new experimental stack... here's the pitch..."

Moooo

Guru
06-09-2006, 03:00 AM
Yeah, exactly! I mean if someone went up to me at work and told me I could make an extra MILLION a year (which is what the jump from AAA to majors is a lot of times), if I injected a substance which couldn't be detected with the available measures the governing body had, I'd be all over that! It's not integrity, its a simple choice.

What they SHOULD do is allow all of them to use it, and let all these performance companies come out with better designer steroids. Then, when they come to bat, they can list what stack they're on underneath their batting average or ERA.

"Jones is batting about .330 right now, and since recycling back on to his deca stack has seen a sharp increase in his numbers. Smith on the mound has seen a sharp decrease in his numbers ever since getting some huge bitchtits due to his new experimental stack... here's the pitch..."

Moooo


ROFL ROFL
Sad thing is... this wouldn't surprise me if it happened. :shake:

htismaqe
06-09-2006, 08:21 AM
What's really funny is watching pathetic Royals fans bring it up.

What are they gonna say if Mike Sweeney is on the list? After all he "loves the man".

Rausch
06-09-2006, 08:27 AM
Yeah, exactly! I mean if someone went up to me at work and told me I could make an extra MILLION a year (which is what the jump from AAA to majors is a lot of times), if I injected a substance which couldn't be detected with the available measures the governing body had, I'd be all over that! It's not integrity, its a simple choice.

Sure it is, YOU'RE CHEATING.

That said, would I sell my integrity for a Million a year?

You bet!

What they SHOULD do is allow all of them to use it, and let all these performance companies come out with better designer steroids. Then, when they come to bat, they can list what stack they're on underneath their batting average or ERA.

"Jones is batting about .330 right now, and since recycling back on to his deca stack has seen a sharp increase in his numbers. Smith on the mound has seen a sharp decrease in his numbers ever since getting some huge bitchtits due to his new experimental stack... here's the pitch..."

Moooo

Exactly.

"You wanna' use? Go ahead.

But don't blame us if you have 4 or 5 great years before suffering from acne, multiple injuries, anger issues, and early retirement."

Does that NOT sound like every major MLB player right now?

htismaqe
06-09-2006, 08:34 AM
Glass, it seems, has ruined the Royals fans as surely as he has ruined the Royals. :shake:

Profound, wise, and TRUE. :(

shakesthecat
06-09-2006, 08:45 AM
What's really funny is watching pathetic Royals fans bring it up.

What are they gonna say if Mike Sweeney is on the list? After all he "loves the man".


We'll say, "Well, that certainly explains a few things"
Most Royals fans wanted Sweeney traded a couple years ago.

William was right, watching Cards fan meltdown over this has been hilarious.

SPchief
06-09-2006, 08:53 AM
What's really funny is watching pathetic Royals fans bring it up.

What are they gonna say if Mike Sweeney is on the list? After all he "loves the man".


Last time I checked, most Royals fans, myself included, could care less if Sweeney is even on the team.

FringeNC
06-09-2006, 09:12 AM
Profound, wise, and TRUE. :(

What I think is funny is that the people who are damning Bonds (who has never failed a drug test) are outraged that someone would float a rumor about their beloved player.

The double-standard is an absolute joke.

SPchief
06-09-2006, 09:17 AM
What I think is funny is that the people who are damning Bonds (who has never failed a drug test) are outraged that someone would float a rumor about their beloved player.

The double-standard is an absolute joke.


They're Cardinals fans.



St. Louis, The capital of Homerville

nychief
06-09-2006, 09:22 AM
It doesn't take much. They are pretty stupid bunch anyway.

They Don't check sources in a deadline driven business. To sell anything.

I question everything I read based on the business they are in.


wow. just, wow. you know nothing about journalism.

nychief
06-09-2006, 09:27 AM
Colin Cowherd is bring this up on national radio, saying the exact same thing I was. Too bad there is a national conspiracy to damn cardinals players, The Pujols Code. I really hope Pujols has nothing to do with this report. But, that being said, if he does - what effect does it have on LaRussa's legacy? He would have fostered this crap everywhere he goes.

luv
06-09-2006, 09:29 AM
I'm confused. Does the article say or not say in the last paragraph that they are not claiming Pujols took it? Are you saying he's automatically guilty by association? Seriously, is there something I'm not understanding here?

SPchief
06-09-2006, 09:34 AM
I'm confused. Does the article say or not say in the last paragraph that they are not claiming Pujols took it? Are you saying he's automatically guilty by association? Seriously, is there something I'm not understanding here?


The article doesn't directly state that Pujols used the stuff. It just says that his trainer for the last 10 years is involved with it. His trainer that has been with him since before he was drafted, while playing college ball. Most people can add to two.

hawkchief
06-09-2006, 09:49 AM
The article doesn't directly state that Pujols used the stuff. It just says that his trainer for the last 10 years is involved with it. His trainer that has been with him since before he was drafted, while playing college ball. Most people can add to two.

Amen.

Baseball has used up all of its opportunities to receive any additional "benefit of the doubt". I am finished with the excuses, parsing, obfuscation and feigned surprise by players and MLB officials on this topic. We deserve real answers, as fans. There is so much smoke around this sport now, its ridiculous. Any claim of cleanliness by a player without a 3rd party-administered blood test attached to it, I henceforth will take for what it is worth - likely BS. Yes, Mike Sweeney, sadly, I include you as well.

OnTheWarpath58
06-09-2006, 09:51 AM
What I think is funny is that the people who are damning Bonds (who has never failed a drug test) are outraged that someone would float a rumor about their beloved player.

The double-standard is an absolute joke.

Double standard? You're kidding, right?

There's a mountain of evidence against Bonds. He put on 15lbs of muscle in 100 days, another 10 after that. His head has gone from normal, to the size of sputnik. Look at a picture of BB his first year with the Giants. Lean and muscular. Not the WWE sideshow he became later. (still today)

There is grand jury testimony verifying he took it. He admitted he took it, but claims he didn't know what it was. The BALCO doping schedules, the list goes on and on.

If you're waiting for a failed drug test, then I guess there's not a drug problem in MLB. The players will always be one step ahead of the league.

If you have eyes, and some common sense, you know BB is guilty. The paper trail and physical evidence speaks for itself......

If you haven't read Game of Shadows, it's a great read. It's amaazing that as hard as the Olympic committes tests, that most of Balco's clients never got caught.....until Balco was raided.

FringeNC
06-09-2006, 10:11 AM
Double standard? You're kidding, right?

There's a mountain of evidence against Bonds. He put on 15lbs of muscle in 100 days, another 10 after that. His head has gone from normal, to the size of sputnik. Look at a picture of BB his first year with the Giants. Lean and muscular. Not the WWE sideshow he became later. (still today)

There is grand jury testimony verifying he took it. He admitted he took it, but claims he didn't know what it was. The BALCO doping schedules, the list goes on and on.

If you're waiting for a failed drug test, then I guess there's not a drug problem in MLB. The players will always be one step ahead of the league.

If you have eyes, and some common sense, you know BB is guilty. The paper trail and physical evidence speaks for itself......

If you haven't read Game of Shadows, it's a great read. It's amaazing that as hard as the Olympic committes tests, that most of Balco's clients never got caught.....until Balco was raided.

Funny. You don't have a problem speculating about Bonds...someone starts speculating about Pujols, and you go apeshit. I find the evidence against Bonds highly convincing. I also find the fact that that Pujols was on record to break Bonds juiced-up record highly convincing. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa...all the guys who hit 65+ homers. Were the all juiced? I think so. Pujols was on pace to hit more than any of them. Now, through in this latest information, and I think the odds of Pujols juicing go even higher.

You honestly think the odds of Pujols juicing are less than even money?

OnTheWarpath58
06-09-2006, 10:29 AM
Funny. You don't have a problem speculating about Bonds...someone starts speculating about Pujols, and you go apeshit. I find the evidence against Bonds highly convincing. I also find the fact that that Pujols was on record to break Bonds juiced-up record highly convincing. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa...all the guys who hit 65+ homers. Were the all juiced? I think so. Pujols was on pace to hit more than any of them. Now, through in this latest information, and I think the odds of Pujols juicing go even higher.

You honestly think the odds of Pujols juicing are less than even money?

No one is speculating about Bonds. He did it. He admitted he did it. The "I don't know what I took" defense means nothing. He's guilty.

I don't have any more time to waste on this......hate away......

KingPriest2
06-09-2006, 10:36 AM
On another note, if Ted Williams hadnt went to World War II and the Korean War... he would have had 5-6 additional seasons in his PRIME, making him the all time homerun king. See, war sucks.


Batting Glossary

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1939 20 BOS AL 149 565 131 185 44 11 31 145 2 1 107 64 .327 .436 .609 344 3 2 10
1940 21 BOS AL 144 561 134 193 43 14 23 113 4 4 96 54 .344 .442 .594 333 1 3 13
1941 22 BOS AL 143 456 135 185 33 3 37 120 2 4 147 27 .406 .553 .735 335 0 3 10
1942 23 BOS AL 150 522 141 186 34 5 36 137 3 2 145 51 .356 .499 .648 338 0 4 12
1946 27 BOS AL 150 514 142 176 37 8 38 123 0 0 156 44 .342 .497 .667 343 0 2 12
1947 28 BOS AL 156 528 125 181 40 9 32 114 0 1 162 47 .343 .499 .634 335 1 2 10
1948 29 BOS AL 137 509 124 188 44 3 25 127 4 0 126 41 .369 .497 .615 313 0 3 10
1949 30 BOS AL 155 566 150 194 39 3 43 159 1 1 162 48 .343 .490 .650 368 0 2 22
1950 31 BOS AL 89 334 82 106 24 1 28 97 3 0 82 21 .317 .452 .647 216 0 0 12
1951 32 BOS AL 148 531 109 169 28 4 30 126 1 1 144 45 .318 .464 .556 295 0 0 10
1952 33 BOS AL 6 10 2 4 0 1 1 3 0 0 2 2 .400 .500 .900 9 0 0 0
1953 34 BOS AL 37 91 17 37 6 0 13 34 0 1 19 10 .407 .509 .901 82 0 0 1
1954 35 BOS AL 117 386 93 133 23 1 29 89 0 0 136 32 .345 .513 .635 245 0 3 1 10
1955 36 BOS AL 98 320 77 114 21 3 28 83 2 0 91 24 .356 .496 .703 225 0 4 17 2 8
1956 37 BOS AL 136 400 71 138 28 2 24 82 0 0 102 39 .345 .479 .605 242 0 0 11 1 13
1957 38 BOS AL 132 420 96 163 28 1 38 87 0 1 119 43 .388 .526 .731 307 0 2 33 5 11
1958 39 BOS AL 129 411 81 135 23 2 26 85 1 0 98 49 .328 .458 .584 240 0 4 12 4 19
1959 40 BOS AL 103 272 32 69 15 0 10 43 0 0 52 27 .254 .372 .419 114 0 5 6 2 7
1960 41 BOS AL 113 310 56 98 15 0 29 72 1 1 75 41 .316 .451 .645 200 0 2 7 3 7
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
19 Seasons 7706 2654 71 1839 17 709 .344 .482 .634 5 20 86 39 197
2292 1798 525 521 24 2021 4884
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
162 Game Avg 545 127 188 37 5 37 130 2 1 143 50 .344 .482 .634 345 0 1 6 3 14
Career High 156 566 150 194 44 14 43 159 4 4 162 64 .406 .553 .735 368 3 5 33 5 22

BigMeatballDave
06-09-2006, 10:55 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3153161&postcount=11

Moooo
06-09-2006, 11:14 AM
Batting Glossary

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1939 20 BOS AL 149 565 131 185 44 11 31 145 2 1 107 64 .327 .436 .609 344 3 2 10
1940 21 BOS AL 144 561 134 193 43 14 23 113 4 4 96 54 .344 .442 .594 333 1 3 13
1941 22 BOS AL 143 456 135 185 33 3 37 120 2 4 147 27 .406 .553 .735 335 0 3 10
1942 23 BOS AL 150 522 141 186 34 5 36 137 3 2 145 51 .356 .499 .648 338 0 4 12
1946 27 BOS AL 150 514 142 176 37 8 38 123 0 0 156 44 .342 .497 .667 343 0 2 12
1947 28 BOS AL 156 528 125 181 40 9 32 114 0 1 162 47 .343 .499 .634 335 1 2 10
1948 29 BOS AL 137 509 124 188 44 3 25 127 4 0 126 41 .369 .497 .615 313 0 3 10
1949 30 BOS AL 155 566 150 194 39 3 43 159 1 1 162 48 .343 .490 .650 368 0 2 22
1950 31 BOS AL 89 334 82 106 24 1 28 97 3 0 82 21 .317 .452 .647 216 0 0 12
1951 32 BOS AL 148 531 109 169 28 4 30 126 1 1 144 45 .318 .464 .556 295 0 0 10
1952 33 BOS AL 6 10 2 4 0 1 1 3 0 0 2 2 .400 .500 .900 9 0 0 0
1953 34 BOS AL 37 91 17 37 6 0 13 34 0 1 19 10 .407 .509 .901 82 0 0 1
1954 35 BOS AL 117 386 93 133 23 1 29 89 0 0 136 32 .345 .513 .635 245 0 3 1 10
1955 36 BOS AL 98 320 77 114 21 3 28 83 2 0 91 24 .356 .496 .703 225 0 4 17 2 8
1956 37 BOS AL 136 400 71 138 28 2 24 82 0 0 102 39 .345 .479 .605 242 0 0 11 1 13
1957 38 BOS AL 132 420 96 163 28 1 38 87 0 1 119 43 .388 .526 .731 307 0 2 33 5 11
1958 39 BOS AL 129 411 81 135 23 2 26 85 1 0 98 49 .328 .458 .584 240 0 4 12 4 19
1959 40 BOS AL 103 272 32 69 15 0 10 43 0 0 52 27 .254 .372 .419 114 0 5 6 2 7
1960 41 BOS AL 113 310 56 98 15 0 29 72 1 1 75 41 .316 .451 .645 200 0 2 7 3 7
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
19 Seasons 7706 2654 71 1839 17 709 .344 .482 .634 5 20 86 39 197
2292 1798 525 521 24 2021 4884
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
162 Game Avg 545 127 188 37 5 37 130 2 1 143 50 .344 .482 .634 345 0 1 6 3 14
Career High 156 566 150 194 44 14 43 159 4 4 162 64 .406 .553 .735 368 3 5 33 5 22

http://www.kitestailstoys.com/metal-signs/images/bd60.jpg

Moooo

StcChief
06-09-2006, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=nychief]wow. just, wow. you know nothing about journalism.[/QUOTE
]
Wow just wow, I know what I see, Starts with your top Dan Rather.
How that story without good sources went right out on the air.

But this crap has been going on for years. Only retractions are on the last page or buried.

Ask some reporters that have to file stories. I don't see much integrity in the media for truth. It's all about selling ad space.

I doubt everything I read from the media, I'm not alone either.

The trust has been fading with the 24/7 news for years.

CoMoChief
06-09-2006, 01:02 PM
wow.

How do they test for HGH ?


Through blood tests, though the MLB does not give out blood tests so its a stalemate really.

hawkchief
06-09-2006, 01:28 PM
Through blood tests, though the MLB does not give out blood tests so its a stalemate really.

It's a stalemate because MLB and the MLBPA want it to be. By continually turning their heads in an effort to keep $$$$$$ pouring itno the sport, these parties are ruining the credibility of the game (whats left of it). It's time to recognize the elephant in the middle of the room and take action.

FringeNC
06-09-2006, 02:02 PM
The lastest from Deadspin, and it's not looking real good for Mike Sweeney either:

OK, probably time for a Jason Grimsley update.

First off, in the biggest news of the day, trainer Chris Mihlfeld has denied our source’s report that his name is in the document. (In multiple places.)

“I just don’t want my name to be part of this,” Mihlfeld said. “It’s not fair to me. It’s not fair to my family. It’s not fair to the other players I work with. It’s not fair to the kids I work with … They’ve got the wrong name on that deal.

“I know Jason Grimsley very well. And I have only two statements to make. One, Jason Grimsley is still my good friend. And two, I’ve never been involved in any illegal steroids, amphetamines or HGH activity. Period.”
Mihlfeld also said Jason Grimsley’s lawyer told him he wasn’t in the affidavit either. Our source stands behind his/her story, so we have no choice but to do so ourselves. After our report yesterday, there’s all kinds of business blowing up out there. The Boston Herald has dragged the tortured soul of Chuck Knoblauch into this. Meanwhile, someone dug up an invite Mihlfeld sent out about the opening of his training faciity. (Thanks to The Sports Frog on this one.) To quote:

We also have more important dates to announce Mike Sweeney from the K.C. Royals will be there on Jan 14th 06 to do a camp with Chris Mihlfeld. Also Albert Pujols will be back in early Feb for a hitting clinic, and Jason Grimsley will be there at the end of January for pitching clinics.
By the way, we feel obliged to — once again — clarify our initial report. A few facts:

• There is no claim that Albert Pujols has taken HGH.
• There is no claim that Mihlfeld was in any way a distributor of HGH, or steroids.
• There is a source — whose confidence has always been rated at “80 percent” — who says Mihlfeld’s name is in the report. Mihlfeld has denied this, and we, as always, hope he’s right. As anyone who has ever read this site knows, Albert Pujols is our favorite player. We own four different pieces of merchandise with his name on it. We are out to get no one, least of all him.

Regardless of Mihlfeld’s name in the report, the connection of Grimsley to Mihlfeld and Mihlfeld to Pujols is now officially established. When you read the full report, and read the full breadth of Grimsley’s steroid/HGH/amphetamine abuse, the man who trained him back from a brutal Tommy John surgery is sure to remain under suspicion, fairly or otherwise.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/kc-trainer-responds-denies-affidavit-cameo-179686.php

StcChief
06-09-2006, 02:14 PM
There is no claim that Albert Pujols has taken HGH.

So let's see where the truth takes us on this issue.

Media stop trying to get/makeup a 'scoop' story that may not be there.

FringeNC
06-09-2006, 02:32 PM
Finally, let's use common sense


By Jason Whitlock
Special to Page 2

Maybe now we can discuss steroids and performance-enhancing drugs intelligently, rationally and without demonizing the users in the sports world. Maybe Jason Grimsley, a mediocre, journeyman major league pitcher, can do what Jose Canseco and Ken Caminiti, two former All-Stars and MVPs, couldn't do.

Maybe Grimsley can force American sportswriters and broadcasters to open their eyes and realize that performance-enhancing drugs are far, far bigger than Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth's legacy and Hank Aaron's record.

For decades, the American press has taken great delight in vilifying "steroids" because we didn't respect the accomplishments of East German sprinters, Chinese swimmers, Canadian sprinters or defiant home-run hitters from the Bay Area.

(When I use "steroids" in this column I mean any banned performance-enhancing drug.)

While professional football, America's favorite pastime, was allowed to put together its smoke-screen drug-testing policy without much hysteria, and Lance Armstrong is celebrated as a cancer survivor and true American hero despite rampant overseas allegations of doping, the American press has been dogged in its demonizing of foreigners and Bonds.

Maybe that will all change now. Maybe we can move beyond restricting the conversation to bludgeoning Bonds under the guise of protecting Aaron and the integrity of the game.

The Grim(sley) Report -- the IRS investigation into Grimsley that has produced more allegations of "steroid" use in baseball -- might just blow this thing wide open and make the Bonds haters reluctantly acknowledge that their pursuit of Bonds is an injustice to the real issue.

In a society that pops a pill for every conceivable malady, in a society that rewards athletes with hundreds of millions of dollars, in a society that values money over all else, we must recognize that performance-enhancing drugs are rampant and widespread in all professional sports, and we're not going to get rid of them by vilifying the users.

We've tried that in sports and in our other high-profile, punish-the-poor-and-slap-the-wealthy-on-the-wrist war on drugs.

Ben Johnson lost his gold medal. We ridiculed East German sprinters and Chinese swimmers. Nancy Reagan said "just say no" while politicians locked up black folk and won voting support.


Just because the feds still insist on waging a drug war against disposable and villainized users doesn't mean we have to cooperate. We might have painted Bonds as the most notorious American criminal since John Gotti, but doesn't pressuring Grimsley to wear a wire seem a bit much to catch a user? We're not talking about a dealer, a Nino Brown. We're talking about using a wire to bring down a high-profile Pookie. Come on, even Bonds' critics must admit this witch hunt has nothing to do with cleaning up baseball. It's about creating headlines, securing promotions and advancing political careers one Willie Horton at a time.

It will not stop athletes from using performance enhancers. The feds know it and so do you. Putting a black face on an American epidemic is the oldest trick in the book. It might help the simpleminded sleep at night, but it's not going to stop that directionless teenager in suburbia or the inner city from doing whatever he thinks is necessary to compete at the highest level.


Our athletes, in pursuit of money, glory and peace of mind, inject, swallow and rub whatever they can to improve their performance, overcome pain and recover from injuries. Can we really blame them?

I don't have the answer to that question primarily because we've never had a serious, intelligent debate about "steroids" in this country. We sportswriters take great pleasure in rattling off clichés:

"You're shaving 20 years off your life."

"Your balls will shrink."

Many people still think athletes use performance-enhancing drugs only to build muscle or hit more home runs. We've allowed the Bonds hysteria about "the most hallowed record in sports" -- and might I add that 714 was the most hollow, segregated statistic in sports -- to define "steroid" use as strictly a hitter's issue.

It's funny how all of these marginal pitchers are the ones who keep getting caught ridin' dirty. And you thought it was only Chamillionaire and Krayzie Bone.

Yes, I know, all you've heard about is Bonds, McGwire, Giambi, Palmeiro, Sheffield and Sosa. But baseball's testing policy -- which has nothing to do with leaked testimony from the BALCO investigation -- has been just as likely to bust a pitcher as a position player.

Athletes use these drugs for a variety of reasons, and we must understand as many of these motivations as possible if we ever hope to make sense of this mess.

HGH, which Grimsley allegedly cops to using on a regular basis, helps the body recover from injury. According to Dr. Ronald Klatz, the author of the popular book "Grow Young with HGH," human growth hormone is the key to reversing aging, lowering blood pressure and cholesterol, improving sexual performance, etc. It's the wonder drug, and it is preferred by the super wealthy and by athletes. If used properly, according to Klatz and other doctors, HGH can benefit athletes (and others) rather than harm.

Yes, some athletes use performance-enhancing drugs to build muscle in hopes of improving their performance. Some use them to repair damaged muscles. Remember when a torn knee ligament meant a year of rehab? Now athletes recover in two or three months. Why? And, more important, why shouldn't they? They have a limited amount of time to earn money and increase their value in professional sports.

Some athletes use "steroids" to ease pain so they can play daily or weekly. Some use amphetamines -- a performance-enhancer we've failed to demonize because angry black guys from the Bay Area don't use them to hit home runs -- to get an extra jolt of energy.

It's a ridiculous, stupid, naive myth that "steroids" are not a big part of the NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB and any other league that pays men and women to play games. You think a middle-aged golfer with back problems wouldn't grow young with HGH in order to keep his tour card?

Pro athletes used to routinely retire with very little money, lots of pain and a boatload of medical problems. We loved it when they played for the love of the game. Never mind that their love often ruined the second half of their lives. It was honorable.

Well, I'm not sure I'm ready to blast these guys now for using their wealth to try to ease the pain and maximize their earning power. If a doctor or trainer told you he had a "steroid" that could help you now and maybe prevent some additional pain later in life, would you take the drug? Would you worry about being vilified by the American media? Or worry about playing with your child in your 40s and 50s?

Before we go around demanding that pro sports leagues ban everything in order to protect some meaningless statistics, we had better make sure we know what we're banning, and we had better apply some common sense and perspective to this debate.

It's 2006. Protecting the "sanctity" of numbers established in 1906 or 1966 might be important to rotisserie geeks and sportswriters Bonds declined to give interviews to, but in the grand scheme that "sanctity" might be standing in the way of progress and/or a more effective way of limiting the damage caused by performance-enhancing drugs.

htismaqe
06-09-2006, 02:39 PM
It's still amazing to me how we still go through this every time.

Cardinal fans up in arms? HARDLY.

Not one Cardinal fan said ONE GODDAMN word. Look at who started this thread.

And look at the title.

Royal fans are truly pathetic. The only thing they have is cheap back-handed jabs at a team that could really care less about you. You're not even in the Cardinals division, let alone the same league.

htismaqe
06-09-2006, 02:42 PM
What I think is funny is that the people who are damning Bonds (who has never failed a drug test) are outraged that someone would float a rumor about their beloved player.

The double-standard is an absolute joke.

ROFL

Outraged? Hardly.

I thought of Pujols IMMEDIATELY when the story broke, among several players.

The only reason I'm involved in this thread is because, ONCE AGAIN, Royals fans have nothing better to do but rag on the Cardinals.

I guess that's what happens when the team you root for is the WORST IN HISTORY.

StcChief
06-09-2006, 03:01 PM
It's still amazing to me how we still go through this every time.

Cardinal fans up in arms? HARDLY.

Not one Cardinal fan said ONE GODDAMN word. Look at who started this thread.

And look at the title.

Royal fans are truly pathetic. The only thing they have is cheap back-handed jabs at a team that could really care less about you. You're not even in the Cardinals division, let alone the same league.

And when asked to join the NLC at the least expansion relignment Royals refused to join NL. (They have pitchers that can't pitch or hit)

So we got Milw. Brewers instead

DomerNKC
06-09-2006, 06:22 PM
ROFL

Outraged? Hardly.

I thought of Pujols IMMEDIATELY when the story broke, among several players.

The only reason I'm involved in this thread is because, ONCE AGAIN, Royals fans have nothing better to do but rag on the Cardinals.

I guess that's what happens when the team you root for is the WORST IN HISTORY.and the worst team in history has a 1-0 edge on the cardinals in series that matter. BTW, the Royals suck.