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kczoo
06-12-2006, 08:35 AM
Anyone else stoked about the possibilities? Surtain, Law, Wesley, Pollard/Knight....(Sapp Nickle). Damn thats some hard hittin mo-fo's

Rain Man
06-12-2006, 08:39 AM
I'm just hoping that we'll have a secondary this year. We've been going too long with a thirdary or even fourthary.

OnTheWarpath58
06-12-2006, 08:41 AM
You can't hit what you can't cover......

Sorry, had to take a shot.....

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 09:00 AM
Did Ty Law sign and I missed it?

Rain Man
06-12-2006, 09:06 AM
Ty is a low-key guy who doesn't like a lot of attention and fuss. I'll bet he's keeping it quiet.

ChiefsfaninPA
06-12-2006, 09:09 AM
Oh great, another "if Ty Law signs, what a great secondary we will have" thread. IF he signs, let us have this discussion then. Until then end all of the speculation, that way when he signs with someone else we don't have to hear your tired rants about us not signing him.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-12-2006, 09:10 AM
I have a better chance of hitting a Mariano Rivera cut fastball than Greg Wesley ever does of 'hitting' anything.

JBucc
06-12-2006, 09:13 AM
I have a better chance of hitting a Mariano Rivera cut fastball than Greg Wesley ever does of 'hitting' anything.I disagree

Otter
06-12-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm excited about the lottery ticket I might pick up today.

ChiefsfaninPA
06-12-2006, 09:17 AM
I'm excited about the lottery ticket I might pick up today.

AH, the good ole Pennsylvania Lottery. Pick one up for me Otter. I am good for the cash.:)

Otter
06-12-2006, 09:19 AM
AH, the good ole Pennsylvania Lottery. Pick one up for me Otter. I am good for the cash.:)

Consider yourself in for $2 of a $4 Cash 5 ticket. I'll let you know what 2 lines were yours and what two were mine after 7pm.

:D

CupidStunt
06-12-2006, 09:29 AM
As it is now (Surtain, Wesley, Knight, Walls), I absolutely despise the secondary.

I wouldn't [insert funny metaphors] on Wesley, Knight or Walls.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-12-2006, 09:39 AM
As it is now (Surtain, Wesley, Knight, Walls), I absolutely despise the secondary.

I wouldn't [insert funny metaphors] on Wesley, Knight or Walls.

Eat a mile of their shit to see where it came from?

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 09:53 AM
Walls will do just fine.

58-4ever
06-12-2006, 09:57 AM
I have a better chance of hitting a Mariano Rivera cut fastball than Greg Wesley ever does of 'hitting' anything.

A friend of mine met Wesley while he was buying a 12 pack of Corona last night. At least he can hit the bottle like Warfield. ROFL

CoMoChief
06-12-2006, 11:27 AM
Walls will do just fine.


Personally I dont think he'll be that good. But for what we were paying Eric Warfield compared to what were paying Walls, I think it was an okay move.

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 11:41 AM
Personally I dont think he'll be that good. But for what we were paying Eric Warfield compared to what were paying Walls, I think it was an okay move.

Will he be a pro-bowler? Doubt it.

But he'll be good enough that people eventually quit whining about the fact that we're not gonna fork over the $$$ to sign Ty Law.

rad
06-12-2006, 12:53 PM
Walls will do just fine.

If the line can get in the QB's face.

Rain Man
06-12-2006, 12:55 PM
I tend to agree about Walls. I think he's underrated, and I even said that when he was a Bronco.

That said, if an upgrade becomes available, it wouldn't bother me.

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 02:11 PM
I tend to agree about Walls. I think he's underrated, and I even said that when he was a Bronco.

That said, if an upgrade becomes available, it wouldn't bother me.

Same here. If we go into the season with Walls as the starter, fine. If we get someone else, that's fine too.

noa
06-12-2006, 02:15 PM
Same here. If we go into the season with Walls as the starter, fine. If we get someone else, that's fine too.


I think Walls is a great addition cause we need someone his size. I remember throwing crap at my TV last year when I would see Dexter McLeon covering Randy Moss. Walls might not be great in one on one coverage against Moss or anything, but at least in the red zone, the Faiders can't just toss it up knowing Randy will be the only one who has a shot at it.

greg63
06-12-2006, 02:15 PM
Oh great, another "if Ty Law signs, what a great secondary we will have" thread. IF he signs, let us have this discussion then. Until then end all of the speculation, that way when he signs with someone else we don't have to hear your tired rants about us not signing him.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:


n00b speaketh wisdom beyound his post count. :D

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 02:18 PM
I think Walls is a great addition cause we need someone his size. I remember throwing crap at my TV last year when I would see Dexter McLeon covering Randy Moss. Walls might not be great in one on one coverage against Moss or anything, but at least in the red zone, the Faiders can't just toss it up knowing Randy will be the only one who has a shot at it.

EXACTLY.

Walls isn't gonna be asked to man up on Randy Moss or Antonio Gates. Having a 6'4" CB in the Cover 2 makes it really hard to complete the intermediate outside routes, like the wheel route for instance.

ChiefsfaninPA
06-12-2006, 02:24 PM
I like the addition of Walls also. As much as some of the guys on this board busting his chops think that they are scouts, Herm liked him enough to bring him on board. I respect his opinion on DB's enough to think that maybe he could work out.

Mecca
06-12-2006, 03:47 PM
Why do people keep bringing up Benny Sapp.....DB's with 0 coverage ability aren't exactly my idea of what we should have on the field.

noa
06-12-2006, 03:57 PM
Why do people keep bringing up Benny Sapp.....DB's with 0 coverage ability aren't exactly my idea of what we should have on the field.


Because he's really good at getting a finger on the QB when he blitzes. Even though he misses the sack almost every time, that finger has to have some sort of an impact...

Mecca
06-12-2006, 04:11 PM
Because he's really good at getting a finger on the QB when he blitzes. Even though he misses the sack almost every time, that finger has to have some sort of an impact...

Let's not mention that he's also so small half the QB's can shrug him off.

BWillie
06-12-2006, 04:18 PM
Look for Julian Battle to press Walls for starting CB spot. I like Benny Sapp, he seems to play hard, but he's really only effective at the nickel while blitzing the QB. And how many times is that?

Tribal Warfare
06-12-2006, 04:22 PM
Walls will do just fine.

"Watch the homerisitic everything is gonna be cool" attitude


This is definitely a wait and see issue. kind of like last year's defense could've been top 10- Gunther speak

Spicy McHaggis
06-12-2006, 04:26 PM
Because he's really good at getting a finger on the QB when he blitzes. Even though he misses the sack almost every time, that finger has to have some sort of an impact...

Gun might as well give the kid a sign that says "HEY!! HEY YOU, QB!! WE'RE BLITZING ON THIS PLAY!!!"

BWillie
06-12-2006, 04:29 PM
Gun might as well give the kid a sign that says "HEY!! HEY YOU, QB!! WE'RE BLITZING ON THIS PLAY!!!"

LOL we do that on offense why not defense. Whenver Larry is out you know what we are doin' every time.

Mecca
06-12-2006, 04:32 PM
I don't think Sapp is making the team this year so I don't think we'll have to worry about any of this.

CoMoChief
06-12-2006, 04:40 PM
LOL we do that on offense why not defense. Whenver Larry is out you know what we are doin' every time.


I remember hearing here that there was a time when Roaf smiled and said to the defender "we're running this way" and still managed to get a 15-20 yd run out of that.

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 04:51 PM
"Watch the homerisitic everything is gonna be cool" attitude


This is definitely a wait and see issue. kind of like last year's defense could've been top 10- Gunther speak

It wasn't me saying it. That's the difference. :D

Spicy McHaggis
06-12-2006, 04:52 PM
I don't think Sapp is making the team this year so I don't think we'll have to worry about any of this.

Really? I think the defensive staff likes him way too much as a dime/nickleback to let him go.

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 04:52 PM
Look for Julian Battle to press Walls for starting CB spot. I like Benny Sapp, he seems to play hard, but he's really only effective at the nickel while blitzing the QB. And how many times is that?

The idea that Sapp has zero coverage skills is pure bullshit. I watched him play all 4 years in college. I watched him shut down some pretty good WR's in the Big 10, including some guys that are ALOT taller than him.

No, he's not an every-down #1 CB like Surtain, but he's not worthless either. He's a far cry better than Alphonso Hodge.

Also, if you're counting on Battle for anything, prepare to be disappointed. He's got a ton of rehab left, he tore an achilles. Some people said it looked like he was still limping at mini-camp.

Mecca
06-12-2006, 04:53 PM
Really? I think the defensive staff likes him way too much as a dime/nickleback to let him go.

If he makes it he better not be anything more than a 5th corner because that's what he is.

Mecca
06-12-2006, 04:54 PM
The idea that Sapp has zero coverage skills is pure bullshit. I watched him play all 4 years in college. I watched him shut down some pretty good WR's in the Big 10, including some guys that are ALOT taller than him.

No, he's not an every-down #1 CB like Surtain, but he's not worthless either. He's a far cry better than Alphonso Hodge.

Also, if you're counting on Battle for anything, prepare to be disappointed. He's got a ton of rehab left, he tore an achilles. Some people said it looked like he was still limping at mini-camp.

At the NFL level he has ridiculously poor coverage ability, that's what he's shown to this point.

Spicy McHaggis
06-12-2006, 04:56 PM
Some people said it looked like he was still limping at mini-camp.

I saw him about a week ago and he definately still seemed to be favoring the ankle.

BWillie
06-12-2006, 04:59 PM
The idea that Sapp has zero coverage skills is pure bullshit. I watched him play all 4 years in college. I watched him shut down some pretty good WR's in the Big 10, including some guys that are ALOT taller than him.

That's not a valid argument. Alot of players are good in college and end up sucking ass in the NFL. See Ryan Leaf, Desmond Howard, Lawrence Phillips, Percy Snow, Ki-Jana Carter, Brian Joziak.. I could go on and on.

From what I've seen in college, Sapp cannot cover worth $hit, and gets knocked around by larger receivers.

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 05:05 PM
At the NFL level he has ridiculously poor coverage ability, that's what he's shown to this point.

You can't back that up, and you know it.

If you wanna pick nits on individual plays, I'll show you some breakdowns in Patrick Surtain's coverage too. Wanna tell me he's "ridiculously poor"?

htismaqe
06-12-2006, 05:06 PM
That's not a valid argument. Alot of players are good in college and end up sucking ass in the NFL. See Ryan Leaf, Desmond Howard, Lawrence Phillips, Percy Snow, Ki-Jana Carter, Brian Joziak.. I could go on and on.

From what I've seen in college, Sapp cannot cover worth $hit, and gets knocked around by larger receivers.

I wasn't the one that used an ABSOLUTE (he has ZERO coverage ability). Is Sapp ideal? No. Does he COMPLETELY lack coverage ability. That's so assinine, it's laughable.

Mecca
06-12-2006, 05:07 PM
You can't back that up, and you know it.

If you wanna pick nits on individual plays, I'll show you some breakdowns in Patrick Surtain's coverage too. Wanna tell me he's "ridiculously poor"?

LOL...ok let's defend the 5'9 corner who doesn't do anything well but blitz and half the time he screws that up.

KCBOSS1
06-12-2006, 06:47 PM
LOL we do that on offense why not defense. Whenver Larry is out you know what we are doin' every time.

If Priest comes back that will change.....

KCBOSS1
06-12-2006, 06:48 PM
I like Sapp. I thought he was pretty gritty last year.

StcChief
06-12-2006, 07:13 PM
The Law dream....still alive but I can't imagine Lamar
paying his huge$$ SB for a 1-2 deal. Plus a hefty salary

BWillie
06-12-2006, 07:48 PM
You can't back that up, and you know it.

If you wanna pick nits on individual plays, I'll show you some breakdowns in Patrick Surtain's coverage too. Wanna tell me he's "ridiculously poor"?

That's because Surtain is in every play almost. People think Surtain had a bad year last year because he didn't have a ton of picks. He didn't...the sign of a good corner is when the QB throws away from them. And that definitely happened alot last year compared to previous years. If you want to nitpick at Surtain's coverage, that's because 19/20 times he provides great coverage that you just take for granted. You can't possibly compare Surtains play to Sapps. I just don't see how.

ChiefsfaninPA
06-12-2006, 08:07 PM
I think what is getting lost in all of this is, while our secondary wasn't great, our front four need to get more pressure on the QB. I think this is being overlooked way too often. Without that, I don't care who is in the secondary, the QB will find someone open.

Halfcan
06-12-2006, 11:12 PM
I will wait to see what happens before I post some stupid prediction for a change.

greg63
06-12-2006, 11:15 PM
I will wait to see what happens before I post some stupid prediction for a change.

I have learned through bitter experience that the wait and see policy is best. :D

Rausch
06-12-2006, 11:22 PM
LOL...ok let's defend the 5'9 corner who doesn't do anything well but blitz and half the time he screws that up.

Yeah.

You show me any NFL player that gets a sack 1/2 the time he blitzes, good luck.

Sapp is a very good blitzer and appeared to come free more than damned near anyone. He's a role player, but he's a good one...

noa
06-12-2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah.

You show me any NFL player that gets a sack 1/2 the time he blitzes, good luck.

Sapp is a very good blitzer and appeared to come free more than damned near anyone. He's a role player, but he's a good one...


Ummmm......Sapp had 2 1/2 sacks last year. Not bad, but that's not exactly getting a sack every other time you blitz.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493716

milkman
06-12-2006, 11:38 PM
I will wait to see what happens before I post some stupid prediction for a change.

I look forward reading your stupid prediction.

Mecca
06-12-2006, 11:42 PM
Yeah.

You show me any NFL player that gets a sack 1/2 the time he blitzes, good luck.

Sapp is a very good blitzer and appeared to come free more than damned near anyone. He's a role player, but he's a good one...

My comment is in reference to how many times he's come free and completely whiffed or had the QB get away from him.

Rausch
06-12-2006, 11:43 PM
Ummmm......Sapp had 2 1/2 sacks last year. Not bad, but that's not exactly getting a sack every other time you blitz.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493716

Kawika had 2 sacks, Bell had 1.5, and DJ had 2.

That's our starting LBs and he had MORE sacks than any of them. Who do you think blitzes more: our LB's or Sapp?

I'd argue Sapp was more effective blitzing...

Rausch
06-12-2006, 11:44 PM
My comment is in reference to how many times he's come free and completely whiffed or had the QB get away from him.

See post 55...

Mecca
06-12-2006, 11:47 PM
See post 55...

If you come free on a blitz and miss you flat out suck ass as a blitzer. I'll be the first one to point out Johnson whiffs far to often and so do alot of other guys on this team.

noa
06-12-2006, 11:51 PM
Kawika had 2 sacks, Bell had 1.5, and DJ had 2.

That's our starting LBs and he had MORE sacks than any of them. Who do you think blitzes more: our LB's or Sapp?

I'd argue Sapp was more effective blitzing...

Hey, I won't argue that...Sapp was our third leading sacker with 2 1/2 sacks (how pathetic), which means he did fine. Still, he's not getting a sack every other time he blitzes. I distincly remember him missing several great opportunities, just as many of our other defensive players did.

Rausch
06-12-2006, 11:51 PM
If you come free on a blitz and miss you flat out suck ass as a blitzer. I'll be the first one to point out Johnson whiffs far to often and so do alot of other guys on this team.

You'll notice on a ton of plays that Sapp comes free but the QB see's him and forces a hurried throw. That's a pressure. It's no sack, but it's a productive play that forces the QB to make a quick/poor decision.

And I swear DJ would have had about 7 or 8 sacks last year if he would have used solid tackling. He got away with a lot of jersey/leg/one arm sacks in college and NFL QB's are a whole different ballgame...

Rausch
06-12-2006, 11:54 PM
I distincly remember him missing several great opportunities, just as many of our other defensive players did.

Less than our other defensive players.

Looking at an opportunity/production ratio I'd argue our LB's suck blitzing and not Sapp.

I really can't comment on his coverage abilities because on passing downs I was always watching the guy opposite Surtain...

htismaqe
06-13-2006, 09:42 AM
LOL...ok let's defend the 5'9 corner who doesn't do anything well but blitz and half the time he screws that up.

Sure seems alot more productive than singling out the 5'9" nickel CB when there's 11 STARTERS on defense that played like shit.

Some people here are pathetic.

Rain Man
06-13-2006, 09:56 AM
Gun might as well give the kid a sign that says "HEY!! HEY YOU, QB!! WE'RE BLITZING ON THIS PLAY!!!"

No kidding. Sapp shouldn't even be called a CB. He should be called a "third-down pass rusher."

Not that I mind blitzing, mind you. I just wish we would mix it up a little more.

htismaqe
06-13-2006, 10:07 AM
Benny Sapp had 5 passes defensed last year.

Warfield had 8, McCleon had 5.

Count Alex's Losses
06-13-2006, 10:08 AM
Benny Sapp had 5 passes defensed last year.

Warfield had 8, McCleon had 5.

Indeed.

Sapp dropped a pick six in the Raiders game, too.

He's more than just a blitzer.

htismaqe
06-13-2006, 10:09 AM
Indeed.

Sapp dropped a pick six in the Raiders game, too.

He's more than just a blitzer.

He can't be, he's only 5'9".