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Bootlegged
06-15-2006, 08:15 AM
Text of al-Zarqawi Safe-House Document
Jun 15 8:58 AM US/Eastern
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By The Associated Press
Text of a document discovered in terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's


hideout. The document was provided in English by Iraqi National


Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie:

___

The situation and conditions of the resistance in Iraq have reached a point that requires a review of the events and of the work being done inside Iraq. Such a study is needed in order to show the best means to accomplish the required goals, especially that the forces of the National Guard have succeeded in forming an enormous shield protecting the American forces and have reduced substantially the losses that were solely suffered by the American forces. This is in addition to the role, played by the Shi'a (the leadership and masses) by supporting the occupation, working to defeat the resistance and by informing on its elements.

As an overall picture, time has been an element in affecting negatively the forces of the occupying countries, due to the losses they sustain economically in human lives, which are increasing with time. However, here in Iraq, time is now beginning to be of service to the American forces and harmful to the resistance for the following reasons:

1. By allowing the American forces to form the forces of the National Guard, to reinforce them and enable them to undertake military operations against the resistance.

2. By undertaking massive arrest operations, invading regions that have an impact on the resistance, and hence causing the resistance to lose many of its elements.

3. By undertaking a media campaign against the resistance resulting in weakening its influence inside the country and presenting its work as harmful to the population rather than being beneficial to the population.

4. By tightening the resistance's financial outlets, restricting its moral options and by confiscating its ammunition and weapons.

5. By creating a big division among the ranks of the resistance and jeopardizing its attack operations, it has weakened its influence and internal support of its elements, thus resulting in a decline of the resistance's assaults.

6. By allowing an increase in the number of countries and elements supporting the occupation or at least allowing to become neutral in their stand toward us in contrast to their previous stand or refusal of the occupation.

7. By taking advantage of the resistance's mistakes and magnifying them in order to misinform.

Based on the above points, it became necessary that these matters should be treated one by one:

1. To improve the image of the resistance in society, increase the number of supporters who are refusing occupation and show the clash of interest between society and the occupation and its collaborators. To use the media for spreading an effective and creative image of the resistance.

2. To assist some of the people of the resistance to infiltrate the ranks of the National Guard in order to spy on them for the purpose of weakening the ranks of the National Guard when necessary, and to be able to use their modern weapons.

3. To reorganize for recruiting new elements for the resistance.

4. To establish centers and factories to produce and manufacture and improve on weapons and to produce new ones.

5. To unify the ranks of the resistance, to prevent controversies and prejudice and to adhere to piety and follow the leadership.

6. To create division and strife between American and other countries and among the elements disagreeing with it.

7. To avoid mistakes that will blemish the image of the resistance and show it as the enemy of the nation.

In general and despite the current bleak situation, we think that the best suggestions in order to get out of this crisis is to entangle the American forces into another war against another country or with another of our enemy force, that is to try and inflame the situation between American and Iraq or between America and the Shi'a in general.

Specifically the Sistani Shi'a, since most of the support that the Americans are getting is from the Sistani Shi'a, then, there is a possibility to instill differences between them and to weaken the support line between them; in addition to the losses we can inflict on both parties. Consequently, to embroil America in another war against another enemy is the answer that we find to be the most appropriate, and to have a war through a delegate has the following benefits:

1. To occupy the Americans by another front will allow the resistance freedom of movement and alleviate the pressure imposed on it.

2. To dissolve the cohesion between the Americans and the Shi'a will weaken and close this front.

3. To have a loss of trust between the Americans and the Shi'a will cause the Americans to lose many of their spies.

4. To involve both parties, the Americans and the Shi'a, in a war that will result in both parties being losers.

5. Thus, the Americans will be forced to ask the Sunni for help.

6. To take advantage of some of the Shia elements that will allow the resistance to move among them.

7. To weaken the media's side which is presenting a tarnished image of the resistance, mainly conveyed by the Shi'a.

8. To enlarge the geographical area of the resistance movement.

9. To provide popular support and cooperation by the people.

The resistance fighters have learned from the result and the great benefits they reaped, when a struggle ensued between the Americans and the Army of Al-Mahdi. However, we have to notice that this trouble or this delegated war that must be ignited can be accomplished through:

1. A war between the Shi'a and the Americans.

2. A war between the Shi'a and the secular population (such as Ayad 'Alawi and al-Jalabi.)

3. A war between the Shi'a and the Kurds.

4. A war between Ahmad al-Halabi and his people and Ayad 'Alawi and his people.

5. A war between the group of al-Hakim and the group of al-Sadr.

6. A war between the Shi'a of Iraq and the Sunni of the Arab countries in the gulf.

7. A war between the Americans and Iraq. We have noticed that the best of these wars to be ignited is the one between the Americans and Iran, because it will have many benefits in favor of the Sunni and the resistance, such as:

1. Freeing the Sunni people in Iraq, who are (30 percent) of the population and under the Shi'a Rule.

2. Drowning the Americans in another war that will engage many of their forces.

3. The possibility of acquiring new weapons from the Iranian side, either after the fall of Iran or during the battles.

4. To entice Iran towards helping the resistance because of its need for its help.

5. Weakening the Shi'a supply line.

The question remains, how to draw the Americans into fighting a war against Iran? It is not known whether American is serious in its animosity towards Iraq, because of the big support Iran is offering to America in its war in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Hence, it is necessary first to exaggerate the Iranian danger and to convince America and the west in general, of the real danger coming from Iran, and this would be done by the following:

1. By disseminating threatening messages against American interests and the American people and attribute them to a Shi'a Iranian side.

2. By executing operations of kidnapping hostages and implicating the Shi'a Iranian side.

3. By advertising that Iran has chemical and nuclear weapons and is threatening the west with these weapons.

4. By executing exploding operations in the west and accusing Iran by planting Iranian Shi'a fingerprints and evidence.

5. By declaring the existence of a relationship between Iran and terrorist groups (as termed by the Americans).

6. By disseminating bogus messages about confessions showing that Iran is in possession of weapons of mass destruction or that there are attempts by the Iranian intelligence to undertake terrorist operations in America and the west and against western interests.

Let us hope for success and for God's help.

mlyonsd
06-15-2006, 08:39 AM
Careful....if the Bush administration could pull off 911 they could easily forge a document where insurgents define their current situation as "bleak".

patteeu
06-15-2006, 08:39 AM
6. To create division and strife between American and other countries and among the elements disagreeing with it.

The fools who are tools.

Eye Patch
06-15-2006, 09:00 AM
Does this mean somebody is winning?

go bowe
06-15-2006, 01:37 PM
if true, this is very very good news...

our military's efforts are bearing fruit...

both in terms of directly attacking the enemy...

and in terms of standing up the iraqi forces to take the brunt of the losses and do the brunt of the damage to al quaeda...

good news indeed...

alpha_omega
06-15-2006, 01:42 PM
WOW!!...thanks for posting this...very interesting and informative.

Loki
06-18-2006, 09:58 PM
Careful....if the Bush administration could pull off 911 they could easily forge a document where insurgents define their current situation as "bleak".

yeah... cuz everyone knows that al-zarqawi was on the CIA payroll.

it's just another cheneyburtonbushronneocon ploy.

:rolleyes:

MarcBulger
06-18-2006, 10:05 PM
Thought we were losing the war..Quick somebody tell the Dems and NBC, CBS, CNN etc

Logical
06-18-2006, 10:12 PM
I give Snopes a week.

JBucc
06-18-2006, 10:13 PM
Man our bombs suck. Dude was still alive AND it didn't even destroy these papers

patteeu
06-18-2006, 10:18 PM
I give Snopes a week.

:LOL: Don't you ever get tired of being so optimistic. ;)

MarcBulger
06-18-2006, 10:20 PM
A week for what. Its pretty sad when this letter hurts Al-Queda and the Dem party. Dem party the enemy within....

Logical
06-18-2006, 10:24 PM
A week for what. Its pretty sad when this letter hurts Al-Queda and the Dem party. Dem party the enemy within....Are you really so stupid as to believe a terrorist is going to publish negative propaganda that would hurt his cause if released? Really, are you that stupid?

MarcBulger
06-18-2006, 10:27 PM
It was a letter to another terrorist for HELP dumbasss

MarcBulger
06-18-2006, 10:28 PM
It was a letter to another terrorist for HELP dumbasss.. SO you would be unhappy if this were true? Shows your color

Dr. Van Halen
06-18-2006, 11:07 PM
Regardless of whether this document is real or fake, it is great.

If it is real, hurrah, we are winning.

If it is fake, it is a brilliant fake that will likely spread at least some doubt throughout the Middle East. This thing covers almost any logical move that the terrorists could make -- maybe that will be enough to trick some misguided young men into believing the contents are true and lead them away from the fight.

Donger
06-18-2006, 11:09 PM
Regardless of whether this document is real or fake, it is great.

If it is real, hurrah, we are winning.

If it is fake, it is a brilliant fake that will likely spread at least some doubt throughout the Middle East. This thing covers almost any logical move that the terrorists could make -- maybe that will be enough to trick some misguided young men into believing the contents are true and lead them away from the fight.

It's 'allegedly fake.' And, conversely, 'allegedly real.'

Logical
06-18-2006, 11:14 PM
It was a letter to another terrorist for HELP dumbasss.. SO you would be unhappy if this were true? Shows your colorI am just not dumb enough to believe it is true. A smart forgery by the CIA IMO. It probably cannot hurt our cause and in that sense it is good, but only a fool would believe it is real. Fortunately the world is full of fools, you are prima facie evidence of that.

Cochise
06-19-2006, 12:07 AM
Weren't some of these documents found on a flash drive in zarqawi's own pocket?

Braincase
06-19-2006, 06:29 AM
In the post script, I'm sure it outlines the location and quantities of nerve agents and fissionable material.

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 09:15 AM
Left; "We're so inept, we can't even find Zarqawi!"

Report; "US strike kills Zarqawi"


Left; "That's not him - it's a CIA fake! If it is him, who cares - it doesn't mean anything! Osama is still on the loose!"


Report; "Treasure trove of Intel recovered during multiple raids"


Left; "CIA manufactured it - Bushlied PeopleDied"


Report; "We landed on the moon"

Left; "We have evidence to the contrary"

Radar Chief
06-19-2006, 09:32 AM
I am just not dumb enough to believe it is true. A smart forgery by the CIA IMO. It probably cannot hurt our cause and in that sense it is good, but only a fool would believe it is real. Fortunately the world is full of fools, you are prima facie evidence of that.

I’m just surprised it took 3 whole days for someone to play the “it’s a fake” card when DU was issue’n this march’n order the day it happened. :shrug:

Cochise
06-19-2006, 10:01 AM
Left; "That's not him - it's a CIA fake! If it is him, who cares - it doesn't mean anything! Osama is still on the loose!"

Don't forget that previously, people were saying that it wouldn't matter if we killed Bin Laden, that this guy was the one we really needed to get. Of course now that it's happened, his death is unimportant as could be.

Cochise
06-19-2006, 10:04 AM
I’m just surprised it took 3 whole days for someone to play the “it’s a fake” card when DU was issue’n this march’n order the day it happened. :shrug:

It's pretty easy to put on your tinfoil hat and cue up the X-Files music and allege this is all a fraud. You can say so without any evidence at all, and decry each piece of support evidence as fake as it rolls in. You never need anything logical to be in your favor besides the F, A, K, and E keys. And you never have to admit you could be wrong.

mlyonsd
06-19-2006, 10:10 AM
It's pretty easy to put on your tinfoil hat and cue up the X-Files music and allege this is all a fraud. You can say so without any evidence at all, and decry each piece of support evidence as fake as it rolls in. You never need anything logical to be in your favor besides the F, A, K, and E keys. And you never have to admit you could be wrong.

Oh stop it. The proof it's a fake is staring you right in the face.

The reports of this letter came AFTER Bush dropped in for the 5 hour visit. It's very clear he hand delivered it. The only thing left to do is check Rove's PC for the saved document.

Duh.

stevieray
06-19-2006, 10:13 AM
Oh stop it. The proof it's a fake is staring you right in the face.

The reports of this letter came AFTER Bush dropped in for the 5 hour visit. It's very clear he hand delivered it. The only thing left to do is check Rove's PC for the saved document.

Duh.

No kidding. It's easier to give the benefit of the doubt to those who would do us harm.

Brock
06-19-2006, 10:20 AM
Logical is dead. Long live Logical.

Logical
06-19-2006, 10:22 AM
In the post script, I'm sure it outlines the location and quantities of nerve agents and fissionable material.

Undoubtedly

Logical
06-19-2006, 10:31 AM
...Report; "US strike kills Zarqawi"

Truth comes out Iraqi's killed Zarqawi over an hour after the bombing.

"That's not him - it's a CIA fake! If it is him, who cares - it doesn't mean anything! Osama is still on the loose!"

Never heard that said, do you have a link?


"Treasure trove of Intel recovered during multiple raids"

Some if was obviously truth, the raids are proof of that. However, something released days later that is as bogus as this reads, you have to desperately want to believe.

Report; "We landed on the moon"

Actually I have never heard only those on the left claim it was a fake, typically those that do are those who don't trust the US from both sides of the political spectrum.

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 10:39 AM
Um, ok. Does this really entertain you this much? The whole setting up strawmen just so you can argue thing?

Logical
06-19-2006, 10:42 AM
Um, ok. Does this really entertain you this much? The whole setting up strawmen just so you can argue thing?

You are the one laying strawman claims, I am merely attempting to point them out. You have links for proof?

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 10:42 AM
[http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1380472

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/04/is-zarqawi-video-hoax.html

Here is a couple from the Batcave.

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 10:49 AM
You are the one laying strawman claims, I am merely attempting to point them out. You have links for proof?


and your proof is what? Nothing more than the fact that you like to play this character on the Interweb.

Radar Chief
06-19-2006, 10:54 AM
Truth comes out Iraqi's killed Zarqawi over an hour after the bombing.

Got a link to that? I haven’t heard that particular angle yet.
I do know that he was alive when we found’im, but I was under the impression it was our guys that found’im and attempted to, unsuccessfully, resuscitate.

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 10:59 AM
Got a link to that? I haven’t heard that particular angle yet.
I do know that he was alive when we found’im, but I was under the impression it was our guys that found’im and attempted to, unsuccessfully, resuscitate.

It's just him wanting to argue about anything...

The story from the RIGHT leaning AP

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13275126/



Updated: 1:05 p.m. ET June 12, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi lived for 52 minutes after a U.S. warplane bombed his hideout northeast of Baghdad, and he died of extensive internal injuries consistent with those caused by a bomb blast, the U.S. military said Monday.

Col. Steve Jones, command surgeon for Multinational Forces, said an autopsy concluded that al-Zarqawi died from serious injuries to his lungs in Wednesday’s airstrike. An FBI test positively identified al-Zarqawi’s remains.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Baghdad, said U.S. forces arrived about 28 minutes after a fighter jet bombed al-Zarqawi’s hideout outside Baqouba. Medics secured al-Zarqawi’s airway but his breathing was shallow and labored, and he expelled blood from his mouth.

“It was very evident he had extremely massive internal injuries,” Caldwell said.

Al-Zarqawi died 24 minutes after coalition forces arrived, he said.

Jones said the autopsy conducted Saturday showed that al-Zarqawi died from injuries to his lungs.

“Blast waves from the two bombs caused tearing, bruising of the lungs and bleeding,” he said. “There was no evidence of firearm injuries.”

The al-Qaida in Iraq leader also suffered head and facial wounds, bleeding in his ears and a fracture of his lower right leg.

Dozens detained or killed
Caldwell also said 140 military operations were carried out since al-Zarqawi’s death and 32 insurgents were killed and 178 detained. He said 11 raids were directly connected to a “treasure trove” of intelligence gleaned from raids since al-Zarqawi’s death.

“As far as the al-Qaida network, we are cautiously optimistic that we have been very successful thus far in the ongoing operations in last five days. We know this is not going to end the insurgency. it will take the people of Iraq to make that decision with their Iraqi security forces,” Caldwell said.

He said an F-16 dropped a 500-pound bomb on al-Zarqawi’s hideout at 6:12 p.m. Wednesday. A second bomb followed immediately after.

U.S. troops arrived at 6:40 p.m. and found Iraqi police at the site. He said a coalition medic treated al-Zarqawi, who lapsed in and out of consciousness.

“At 7:04 p.m. on 7 June, Zarqawi was dead,” Caldwell said.

He said al-Zarqawi’s spiritual adviser, Sheik Abdul-Rahman, was killed instantly in the airstrike.

Jones and a medical examiner who was not identified said al-Zarqawi had “no evidence of beating or any firearm injuries.”

“These autopsies were performed to make a definitive determination as to the cause of both Zarqawi’s and Rahman’s deaths,” Caldwell said. “The scientific facts provide irrefutable evidence regarding the deaths of terrorists will serve to counter speculation, misinformation and propaganda.”

An Iraqi man raised questions about al-Zarqawi’s death, telling AP Television News he saw U.S. soldiers after the airstrike beating an injured man resembling the dead terrorist until blood flowed from his nose.

Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, has dismissed that claim as “baloney.”

No decision about remains
Caldwell added that no decision had been made on what to do with the remains of al-Zarqawi and Rahman.

“Right now we’re still in discussions with the government of Iraq. They’re still currently under coalition control,” Caldwell said.

Caldwell said that two women and a young girl killed at the scene were turned over to Iraqi authorities as had the body of another man. None had been identified.

According to Caldwell, al-Zarqawi was not wearing an explosives vest. The Jordanian-born al-Qaida leader often claimed he wore one to prevent capture.

“He was wearing some black outfit. There is nothing that said he was wearing a suicide belt on,” Caldwell said.

He added that a timeline of events he had promised would be ready in the next few days. Because of the confusion over the sequence of events following the bombing, the military has promised to release a chronology.

At least one U.S. officer said American troops responded quickly, while a senior Iraqi official said Sunday that they may have arrived as much as an hour after the attack.

“After the national Iraqi police arrived to the scene and got the injured, got the dead sorted out. In an hour or so, I think, coalition forces have arrived to the scene also to help in the logistics of the operation afterward,” Iraqi national security adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie told CNN.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Cochise
06-19-2006, 11:14 AM
It's just him wanting to argue about anything...

The story from the RIGHT leaning AP

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13275126/


Undoubtedly another plant by BushCo/DeDebbilCorp.

ChiTown
06-19-2006, 12:53 PM
Undoubtedly another plant by BushCo/DeDebbilCorp.

ROFL

DeDebbilCorp? lmfao

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 12:55 PM
and your proof is what? Nothing more than the fact that you like to play this character on the Interweb.
Do you actually know what a strawman is, Lattimer? It's when you attribute arguments or words to an opponent, when in fact those arguments or words were never made, except when they first appeared in your attribution. The only post in this thread that I've seen that occur was in post #21, posted by you. Unless you can demonstrate where "the Left" (meaning a respectable number of them, not just a few isolated nutjobs) have claimed that it wasn't Zarqawi, that it was a CIA fake who was killed in the bombing, or that those claiming the moon landing was faked are predominately left-wingers (as someone mentioned earlier, this claim comes from both sides, though I personally have heard it a lot more from right-wingers than left), then your post #21 remains a strawman.

Logical
06-19-2006, 01:00 PM
and your proof is what? Nothing more than the fact that you like to play this character on the Interweb.

Not sure the point you are making here, however, I am sure you are entertaining yourself.

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 01:01 PM
Do you actually know what a strawman is, Lattimer? It's when you attribute arguments or words to an opponent, when in fact those arguments or words were never made, except when they first appeared in your attribution. The only post in this thread that I've seen that occur was in post #21, posted by you. Unless you can demonstrate where "the Left" (meaning a respectable number of them, not just a few isolated nutjobs) have claimed that it wasn't Zarqawi, that it was a CIA fake who was killed in the bombing, or that those claiming the moon landing was faked are predominately left-wingers (as someone mentioned earlier, this claim comes from both sides, though I personally have heard it a lot more from right-wingers than left), then your post #21 remains a strawman.


Please enlighten me - what is a respectable # of "left"? 10 - 10,000? You even had a member (D) of congress stating his death was staged. Go find a dictionary and come back to me when you learn big boy words.

Logical
06-19-2006, 01:04 PM
Got a link to that? I haven’t heard that particular angle yet.
I do know that he was alive when we found’im, but I was under the impression it was our guys that found’im and attempted to, unsuccessfully, resuscitate.

It is just one of a number of versions of the story. About the only consistency is that the US soldiers were not first on the scene, that when they arrived Z was on a stretcher, and that the US military doctors tried to prolong his life. Beyond that all the stories are inconsistent at best.

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 01:14 PM
It is just one of a number of versions of the story. About the only consistency is that the US soldiers were not first on the scene, that when they arrived Z was on a stretcher, and that the US military doctors tried to prolong his life. Beyond that all the stories are inconsistent at best.

Of course he doesn't have a link - much easier to just say - eh, some other version of the story. And if a link is produced, you can bet it will be from a truthout.hack quality site. Blah ****ing Blah.

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 01:19 PM
Please enlighten me - what is a respectable # of "left"? 10 - 10,000? You even had a member (D) of congress stating his death was staged. Go find a dictionary and come back to me when you learn big boy words.So you've got one member of Congress so far. Any others? Use common sense. "The Left" is not one person, or 10 people, or one or two talking heads. Neither is "the Right." Just because a handful of nutballs may happen to be members of the Left, or the Right, and just because one or two of them may even occupy positions of prominence doesn't mean that their every word speaks for their half of the political spectrum or that their words are going to be latched onto as talking points. It doesn't help your argument that one member of Congress made a comment. It might help your case if you can show that large numbers of Democrats, Liberals or other Left-wingers seized upon his comment and started spreading it around like a wildfire gospel. Then you might be a little closer to being able to claim that "the Left" is saying that. Come back when you've got more than just one example.

By the way, your "big boy words" jab was pretty juvenile. Just a bit of advice, if I were you, I wouldn't go on that particular tack after just having been challenged on your own apparently fallible understanding of such a fairly common debate term as "strawman."

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 01:42 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2327738

Baby Lee
06-19-2006, 01:51 PM
"The Left" is not one person, or 10 people, or one or two talking heads. Neither is "the Right." Just because a handful of nutballs may happen to be members of the Left, or the Right, and just because one or two of them may even occupy positions of prominence doesn't mean that their every word speaks for their half of the political spectrum or that their words are going to be latched onto as talking points.
Shaddup willya!!!
People are either XWNJs or sheeple!!!

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 02:04 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2327738Two things:

1. I don't have the time or inclination to read through that entire thread, but I did read through about half of it, and found not one person claiming that it was faked by the CIA. Plenty of disbelief about whether or not it was really Zarqawi (a common enough refrain, generally aimed at those media, like Fox News, that tend to jump the gun on these things fairly often), but not anything about a conspiracy by the CIA to fake his death.

2. DU? ROFL!!! Most liberals I know (who have actually heard of DU) consider them to be one of the great jokes of the liberal universe. The best you can come up with is DU? Puhleeeze!

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 02:05 PM
Shaddup willya!!!
People are either XWNJs or sheeple!!!
X-Wing Nut Jobs - aren't those rabid Star Wars fans?

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 02:12 PM
Two things:

1. I don't have the time or inclination to read through that entire thread, but I did read through about half of it, and found not one person claiming that it was faked by the CIA. Plenty of disbelief about whether or not it was really Zarqawi (a common enough refrain, generally aimed at those media, like Fox News, that tend to jump the gun on these things fairly often), but not anything about a conspiracy by the CIA to fake his death.

2. DU? ROFL!!! Most liberals I know (who have actually heard of DU) consider them to be one of the great jokes of the liberal universe. The best you can come up with is DU? Puhleeeze!


Try to follow - never did I say the entire "Left" was in lock step. You decided to go off on this subject and asked for examples. When presented with examples you asked for more. I provided more. You can keep going in circles with this all you want...

BTW - Your statement #2 is going to piss off about 1/2 the "left" on this board..as jIZ, meme and friends hang out there and recruit others from there to come here.

Have fun!

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 02:19 PM
Try to follow - never did I say the entire "Left" was in lock step. You decided to go off on this subject and asked for examples. When presented with examples you asked for more. I provided more. You can keep going in circles with this all you want...
I didn't say you said the "entire" Left. But you did say "the Left," which generally means that the sentiment can be generalized to the left-wing community at large, beit a majority or at least a considerable number of them, not just a few isolated nutballs here and there. And you've still not provided any examples (save for the unsourced allegation that one person in Congress said it) of left-wingers claiming it was faked as part of some conspiracy on the part of the government or the CIA. The DU thread only seems to show a lot of people questioning the accuracy of the media reports, pointing out that his death has been faultily report before, which is true.

BTW - Your statement #2 is going to piss off about 1/2 the "left" on this board..as jIZ, meme and friends hang out there and recruit others from there to come here.

I'll try not to lose sleep over that.

Baby Lee
06-19-2006, 02:24 PM
X-Wing Nut Jobs - aren't those rabid Star Wars fans?
If it's Star Wars, no need for the NJ. Nut job is implied.

patteeu
06-19-2006, 02:27 PM
I don't have the time or inclination to read through that entire thread, but I did read through about half of it, and found not one person claiming that it was faked by the CIA. Plenty of disbelief about whether or not it was really Zarqawi (a common enough refrain, generally aimed at those media, like Fox News, that tend to jump the gun on these things fairly often), but not anything about a conspiracy by the CIA to fake his death.

I don't really want to get in between you two love birds, but I just have to point out that if people are alleging that the body didn't really belong to Zarqawi despite the fact that our military/CIA is still postively confirming it as him, that seems to qualify as faking even if no one is specifically alleging it.

Just trying to help the two of you see eye to eye.

go bowe
06-19-2006, 02:46 PM
love birds... teehee hee hee hee

Bootlegged
06-19-2006, 02:50 PM
I didn't say you said the "entire" Left. But you did say "the Left," which generally means that the sentiment can be generalized to the left-wing community at large, beit a majority or at least a considerable number of them, not just a few isolated nutballs here and there. And you've still not provided any examples (save for the unsourced allegation that one person in Congress said it) of left-wingers claiming it was faked as part of some conspiracy on the part of the government or the CIA. The DU thread only seems to show a lot of people questioning the accuracy of the media reports, pointing out that his death has been faultily report before, which is true.


I'll try not to lose sleep over that.

ROFL

Here - his name is Pete Stark ....go look it up. Good GOD.

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 02:56 PM
I don't really want to get in between you two love birds, but I just have to point out that if people are alleging that the body didn't really belong to Zarqawi despite the fact that our military/CIA is still postively confirming it as him, that seems to qualify as faking even if no one is specifically alleging it.

Just trying to help the two of you see eye to eye.
From the part of the DU thread that I actually read through, it didn't appear that anyone was alleging that it positively wasn't him, which is what Lattimer is trying to imply by broadbrushing the Left as sharing in this sentiment that the government conspired to fake his death. They are being skeptical and sarcastic (as one would expect radical partisans to be) about the accuracy of the information. The difference between expressing skepticism (even caustic skepticism) and accusing of a conspiracy is wider than the Grand Canyon. I just hope Lattimer opens his eyes in time to see the chasm before he falls into it -- that's a long drop!

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 02:58 PM
ROFL

Here - his name is Pete Stark ....go look it up. Good GOD.
You need to find it and link us to it. That's your job, not mine. And if you manage to do so, congratulations, you've provided a sourced example of ONE person alleging a conspiracy. Now you've only got a few thousand more to go. Happy hunting!

Chiefnj
06-19-2006, 03:38 PM
The document does not read like what I would expect a terrorist recruiting memo to read like - there's no praise to Allah or calling the US a bunch of mongrel dogs, etc.


"To avoid mistakes that will blemish the image of the resistance..." A terrorist using the phrase "blemish the image of the resistance"? Seems kind of soft.

Logical
06-19-2006, 03:43 PM
The document does not read like what I would expect a terrorist recruiting memo to read like - there's no praise to Allah or calling the US a bunch of mongrel dogs, etc.


"To avoid mistakes that will blemish the image of the resistance..." A terrorist using the phrase "blemish the image of the resistance"? Seems kind of soft.

I see someone else is reading this with a critical eye. :clap:

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 08:40 PM
The document does not read like what I would expect a terrorist recruiting memo to read like - there's no praise to Allah or calling the US a bunch of mongrel dogs, etc.


"To avoid mistakes that will blemish the image of the resistance..." A terrorist using the phrase "blemish the image of the resistance"? Seems kind of soft.
I kind of thought the same thing, that this letter was remarkably lacking in most of the requisite islamist buzzwords. On the other hand, a letter asking for aid is likely to be a bit more formal affair than an audiotape or a grandstanding speech, so I'm going to withhold judgment for the nonce.

Logical
06-19-2006, 08:56 PM
Here is another amusing one, evidently Z was a man for mundane details. ROFL

1. Freeing the Sunni people in Iraq, who are (30 percent) of the population and under the Shi'a Rule.

WilliamTheIrish
06-19-2006, 10:32 PM
X-Wing Nut Jobs - aren't those rabid Star Wars fans?

I think X-Wing refers to rabid Star Wars fans who are currently having monthly menses.

Nightwish
06-19-2006, 11:28 PM
I think X-Wing refers to rabid Star Wars fans who are currently having monthly menses.
ROFL