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rageeumr
06-15-2006, 10:19 AM
I can't believe this hasn't been talked about here... did I just miss it?

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14824615.htm

Lee's Summit considers ban on pit bulls
The Kansas City Star

Lee's Summit is joining the list of cities talking about pit bulls.

Councilman Ed Cockrell on Wednesday proposed in a committee meeting that the breed be banned before the city has an incident.

Two other councilmen had mixed reactions. Councilman Ron Williams said people who already own pit bulls that behave should be allowed to keep those dogs, but he'd accept a ban on more pit bulls coming into the city. Randy Rhoads said a ban might create a false sense of security because other breeds are capable of seriously injuring people.

City Administrator Steve Lewis said Lee's Summit has ordinances to handle individually vicious dogs.

"There's a lot of debate about what's the best way to go," he said.

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 10:36 AM
In my heart i still think bans are the best thing for the breed, but i also feel that the goverment should have no say in the confiscation of private property w/out real and solid probable cause.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 10:52 AM
As a citizen of the lovely suburban bedroom city of Lee's Summit I have a dog in this fight.

On one hand the city is a very politically correct city but it has traditionally has had a political base being Republican and very conservative.

Seat Belts, Helmuts and proventive bans are all the same kind of thing. Trying to regulate the behaviour of its citizens. If we go down that path why is cigarettes and liquor sales never a part of the discussion?

Cochise
06-15-2006, 10:56 AM
In my heart i still think bans are the best thing for the breed, but i also feel that the goverment should have no say in the confiscation of private property w/out real and solid probable cause.

Maybe they should grandfather in people who already have the dogs and are registered in the city.

How do they determine what is a Pit Bull anyways? Are they going to test the dog's DNA and see what %? Does the dog have to be 50% pit bull? Is 20% enough for the dog to be illegal?

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 10:56 AM
Randy Rhoads said a ban might create a false sense of security because other breeds are capable of seriously injuring people.
Well then, for God's sake, let's just ban all dogs. :rolleyes:

Cochise
06-15-2006, 10:57 AM
Well then, for God's sake, let's just ban all dogs. :rolleyes:

We should just ban retards like that from speaking.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:01 AM
It's hitting all over Kansas and Missouri now. They had a meeting last night in Overland Park and there is another in Independence on the 19th. THey are selling fear at unpresidented levels right now.

Chan93lx50
06-15-2006, 11:03 AM
Correct me if I am wrong Pit Bull owners. The dogs are only mean if they are trained to be, otherwise they make great pets.

I suppose the major fear of this bread is their heads are so big and their jaws are like that of a snapping turtle and when they latch on they dont let go.

IMHO, any Dog can be dangerous

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:03 AM
Well then, for God's sake, let's just ban all dogs. :rolleyes:

These are the breeds they are going to go after once they get some legislation passed. If you have any of these breeds you should be seriously concerned and fight against all BSL.

*American Pit Bull Terrier
*American Staffordshire Terrier
*Staffordshire Bull Terrier
*Rottweiler
*Bull Mastiff
*Doberman Pinscher
*St. Bernard
*Dogo Argentino
*German Shephard
*Akita
*Chow Chow
*Boxer
*Rhodesian Ridgeback
*Dogue de Bordeaux
*Husky
*Wolf Hybrid
*Great Pyrenees

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:05 AM
Here is some info on the Independence meeting. You should fight it in all areas because once they start is spreads like wild fire.

The next public city council meeting is June 19
There is "already a lady signed up to speak to the dog issue-it may or may not be on the agenda", according to the Clerk today. (I have a feeling this is Ms. Castillo with the BanPitBulls site.)
In order to speak you have to be signed up before Friday at 816-325-7010.

Form letters can be found at www.defendingdog.com or http://www.rott-n-chatter.com.

There are only a few Councilmembers with email...so any correspondance sent be sure to include the Council Aide ssaxton@indepmo.org and ask that the info be forwarded to ALL Councilmembers.

Office of the City Council
Sheila Saxton Council Aide
Phone: (816)325-7022
Fax: (816)325-7012
E-mail: ssaxton@indepmo.org

Mayor Don Reimal
Phone:(816)325-7022
Home Phone:(816) 461-6044
Fax:(816)325-7012
Councilmember Will Swoffer
Phone:(816)325-7022
Home Phone:(816) 257-1888
Fax:(816)325-7012
Councilmember Renee Paluka
Phone:(816)325-7022
Home Phone:(816) 478-8641
Fax:(816)325-7012
reneepaluka@comcast.net
Councilmember Jim Page
Phone:(816)325-7022
Home Phone:(816) 252-1198
Fax:(816)325-7012
Councilmember Jim Schultz
Council Phone:(816)325-7022
Fax:(816)325-7012
E-mail: onelaw3@swbell.net
**Also, please go to Ms. Castillos website (the woman who started the petition) so that you can counter some of the false information she is putting out there to get people to sign her petition. http://stoppitbullattacks.com/**
http://www.examiner.net/stories/061206/new_061206002.shtml

Chan93lx50
06-15-2006, 11:08 AM
These are the breeds they are going to go after once they get some legislation passed. If you have any of these breeds you should be seriously concerned and fight against all BSL.

*American Pit Bull Terrier
*American Staffordshire Terrier
*Staffordshire Bull Terrier
*Rottweiler
*Bull Mastiff
*Doberman Pinscher
*St. Bernard
*Dogo Argentino
*German Shephard
*Akita
*Chow Chow
*Boxer
*Rhodesian Ridgeback
*Dogue de Bordeaux
*Husky
*Wolf Hybrid
*Great Pyrenees

Hmmm, so much for living in a free country?

Pennywise
06-15-2006, 11:09 AM
Those are some sad phone numbers.

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 11:10 AM
BoxerWhat a frickin' joke. I'm not familiar with most of those breeds, but I have first hand knowledge of boxers (I just lost my 12 year old female this spring).

I don't know how anyone with a shred of intelligence could consider boxers as a dangerous breed. It is common knowledge in the dog world that boxers are one of the most gentle breeds to have around children.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 11:10 AM
They want to outlaw Boxers?

Half the people in Kansas City would have to move out.

Demonpenz
06-15-2006, 11:12 AM
there are a ton of boxers around the op area

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:14 AM
Those are some sad phone numbers.

ROFL I just cut and paste and it came out that way. I try to fight BSL nationally. Dog owners need to unite on this subject. I am convinced that attempting BSL out here cost Jackie in the last election. We are a powerful group united but they will take our dogs if we divide or don't make it an important issue. It doesn't take a lot of time to e-mail and fax all your local politicians and let them know they will never get your vote if they support BSL.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:16 AM
They want to outlaw Boxers?

Half the people in Kansas City would have to move out.

All it will take is one boxer biting someone. BSL is about all real dogs. If having one is of any importance to you get involved. It's not as time consuming as you may think.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:18 AM
there are a ton of boxers around the op area

If you follow BSL at all you know the pit bull is just the one being demonized. The goal is to go after many dogs. The one's I posted are the most popular to go after but there are even more outlawed in different areas of the country right now including the English Bully which is beyond ridiculous.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 11:26 AM
If you follow BSL at all you know the pit bull is just the one being demonized. The goal is to go after many dogs. The one's I posted are the most popular to go after but there are even more outlawed in different areas of the country right now including the English Bully which is beyond ridiculous.

My neighbors had a Chow when I was little that I was terrified of, but it was genuinely a psycho dog. But another in that neighborhood had an English Bulldog, and I think I could have walked and outrun that thing. I don't see how it could be dangerous. It was all the thing could do to breathe, let alone chase down and attack someone.

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 11:27 AM
If you follow BSL at all you know the pit bull is just the one being demonized. The goal is to go after many dogs. The one's I posted are the most popular to go after but there are even more outlawed in different areas of the country right now including the English Bully which is beyond ridiculous.

BD, i wonder if any of the AR groups are behind this fearmongering including the ASPCA and HSUS?

any evidence?

Lzen
06-15-2006, 11:34 AM
Those are some sad phone numbers.

ROFL

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:35 AM
BD, i wonder if any of the AR groups are behind this fearmongering including the ASPCA and HSUS?

any evidence?

It's been my experience that they back the legislators of proposed BSL when they try to pass it. Jacky Speier used them and their backing to try to try and get it through here. Every area may be different though. Our strength comes in numbers. Over half the households in the US have dogs to the tone of 61 million and will vote over party lines to keep them. That is VERY powerfull. It's just getting all dog owners on the same page and getting them to understand what is really going on.

Lzen
06-15-2006, 11:39 AM
What a frickin' joke. I'm not familiar with most of those breeds, but I have first hand knowledge of boxers (I just lost my 12 year old female this spring).

I don't know how anyone with a shred of intelligence could consider boxers as a dangerous breed. It is common knowledge in the dog world that boxers are one of the most gentle breeds to have around children.

My only experience with a boxer is with my brother-in-law's boxer. That dog is great with all the kids, my 3 and my SIL's 3. If anything, he's a little overwhelming with the playfulness, but not mean at all. He's a great dog. I may get a boxer when my dog dies.

Inspector
06-15-2006, 11:40 AM
Hmmm, so much for living in a free country?

I've always wondered what that would be like.....

I just wish they'd outlaw cats. Then I'd have a good excuse to get rid of the two my wife has.

Outlawing dogs is as ridiculous as some of the other assinign things that get outlawed.

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 11:41 AM
I may get a boxer when my dog dies.
I highly recommend it. I'd get another, but i've already got two rescued dogs and there's no way I'm getting another.

Mr. Laz
06-15-2006, 11:44 AM
I can't believe this hasn't been talked about here... did I just miss it?
Big Daddy posts about it on a weekly basis

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:45 AM
My only experience with a boxer is with my brother-in-law's boxer. That dog is great with all the kids, my 3 and my SIL's 3. If anything, he's a little overwhelming with the playfulness, but not mean at all. He's a great dog. I may get a boxer when my dog dies.

I hear a lot about how many there are in op. They already have ridiculous permit laws on the books now. The only reason they would go for an outright ban is to eventually go after many breeds. See how that works. They make you get the permit then pass an outright ban and since you are a good law abiding citizen they now know where your dog is so they can come and kill it. Isn't that nice? This is what is on the books now in op:

http://www.opkansas.org/_Res/Pets/dangeranimals.cfm

Chan93lx50
06-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Why don't they just outlaw sex, that kills more people than Dog bites!

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 11:47 AM
Big Daddy posts about it on a weekly basis

That's a massive exaggeration look at the background of my posts if you think so. Then again Laz is cat man so you can see why his opinion may be a little bit skewed.

kcfan88
06-15-2006, 11:55 AM
"Helmuts " what kind of dog breed is this? similar to the "hounds of hell"??

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 11:59 AM
What is wrong with the Rhodesian Ridgeback?

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 12:00 PM
"Helmuts " what kind of dog breed is this? similar to the "hounds of hell"??
"Helmut" is the Chiefsplanet spelling for "helmet". Its not in the official lexicon, but it should be.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 12:03 PM
What is wrong with the Rhodesian Ridgeback?

Why don't you ask some of your liberal friends. There the ones behind almost all BSL.

Here is an update on what went down in Overland Park last night. Want to make a difference. Send a quick e-mail to the counsil members.


The meeting went o.k. this evening. Councilwoman Gilliland is pushing for a pit bull ban. City Attorney Mike Santos and the Police Chief presented extremely edited information about bites and incidents with misleading labels and categories that were completely deleted. Santos also made the comment that "all pit bulls in Overland Park are registered." Currently that is 20 dogs in a fairly affluent city of 170,000 (which still has A LOT of pit bulls going to shelters, but mostly privately because of the ordinance). By the way, they have had 1 pit bull bite this year. Also Santos has been at the root of all of the pit bull ordinances in the region; he has provided advice and documentation lobbying for bans and restrictions in Leawood, Shawnee, Olathe, Independence, and Kansas City, MO (among other cities) over the past decades.

We need help to repeal their current legislation, which requires owners to purchase liability insurance, pay a higher license fees, and muzzle their dogs at all times outside of the home. Overland Park spends more than $50,000 just in direct cost on the current ordinance. Based on other cities' experiences the annual estimated direct cost (just personnel) would more than double in order to enforce a ban.

Overland Park needs a progressive ordinance. We would like to suggest the Ryan Armstrong Law from Illinois or Olathe's ordinance. It also needs to spend its money on other animal and community projects instead of hunting down "pit bulls."

Here are the city council members (please recommend an effective breed neutral policy and that they repeal the current law, also be very polite/professional):

carl.gerlach@opkansas.org
terry.happerscheier@opkansas.org
george.kandt@opkansas.org
marcia.gilliland@opkansas.org
fred.spears@opkansas.org
donna.owens@opkansas.org
john.thompson@opkansas.org
dave.janson@opkansas.org
curt.skoog@opkansas.org
david.white@opkansas.org
terry.goodman@opkansas.org
jim.hix@opkansas.org
george.kandt@opkansas.org

Pennywise
06-15-2006, 12:06 PM
I bet the wild hogs where I'm from would love to see the Pits and Dogos go away.

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 12:06 PM
We would like to suggest the Ryan Armstrong Law from Illinois or Olathe's ordinance.
Can you elaborate on this, BD?

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 12:22 PM
Can you elaborate on this, BD?


http://www.geminiz.com/ArmstrongAct/ArmstrongAct.htm

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 12:25 PM
http://www.geminiz.com/ArmstrongAct/ArmstrongAct.htm
Sounds reasonable to me.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 12:28 PM
Sounds reasonable to me.

I am all for holding people accountible and putting down any dog that bites an innocent person.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 12:31 PM
"Helmut" is the Chiefsplanet spelling for "helmet". Its not in the official lexicon, but it should be.

Chit if n00b is in then helmut should be too. :cuss:

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 01:26 PM
Here is the information you need if you want to make a difference on the Lee's summit purposed legislation. I hope some of you are going to use this it only takes a few minutes.

Please write the council members in Lees Summit and ask that the consider strengthening their current breed neutral law, similar to Olathe or that they consider a very tough law like the Ryan Armstrong Law in Illinois.

Here are the addresses:
Mayor-Karen.Messerli@lees-summit.mo.us
Council
jhallam@mid-west.net
hofmann.kathy@gmail.com
rrhoads@mid-west.net (opposes)
rwilliam@mid-west.net (doesn't want ban, but might be o.k. with BSL)
jspallo@sbcglobal.net
cockrelled@yahoo.com (he has proposed the legislation)
jffreeman@att.net
Swearngin@gmail.com

Administrator
Steve.Lewis@lees-summit.mo.us

Abby York
Kansas City Dog Advocates

Here is the article

Lee's Summit considers ban on pit bulls
The Kansas City Star
Lee's Summit is joining the list of cities talking about pit bulls.
Councilman Ed Cockrell on Wednesday proposed in a committee meeting that the breed be banned before the city has an incident.
Two other councilmen had mixed reactions. Councilman Ron Williams said people who already own pit bulls that behave should be allowed to keep those dogs, but he'd accept a ban on more pit bulls coming into the city. Randy Rhoads said a ban might create a false sense of security because other breeds are capable of seriously injuring people.
City Administrator Steve Lewis said Lee's Summit has ordinances to handle individually vicious dogs.
"There's a lot of debate about what's the best way to go," he said.
| Russ Pulley, rpulley@kcstar.com.

CoMoChief
06-15-2006, 01:28 PM
As a citizen of the lovely suburban bedroom city of Lee's Summit I have a dog in this fight.

On one hand the city is a very politically correct city but it has traditionally has had a political base being Republican and very conservative.

Seat Belts, Helmuts and proventive bans are all the same kind of thing. Trying to regulate the behaviour of its citizens. If we go down that path why is cigarettes and liquor sales never a part of the discussion?


Because govt tried that already and it didnt work.

BWillie
06-15-2006, 01:32 PM
I bet DMX would be pissed.

CoMoChief
06-15-2006, 01:36 PM
If people dont like it they can get another dog. I dont really see what the benefit of having a Pit Bull in a neighborhood where theres children etc. Sure you can have them in junk yards etc. In Columbia theres a college girl that lives behind me and walked out to her car one morning and two pit bulls that got out from their fenced area attacked her while getting into her car. She didnt do anything to harm the dogs, they literally chased after her (both of them) and bit her 13 times, once in the neck and she had numerous amount of stiches. These dogs are highly highly aggressive, their bread like that, they've always have been, they have more of a chemical upmake in their systems that make them more aggressive than any other bread of dog. What is the benefit of having these animals? It's not about the owner, as of some will say on this board that makes them mean, its genetics, they've done studies on this. IIRC there was an article on the study that was posted here on the planet, and no Im not gonna dig through the archives to find it. Theres just no positive reasoning for having these dogs in a community.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 01:45 PM
If people dont like it they can get another dog. I dont really see what the benefit of having a Pit Bull in a neighborhood where theres children etc. Sure you can have them in junk yards etc. In Columbia theres a college girl that lives behind me and walked out to her car one morning and two pit bulls that got out from their fenced area attacked her while getting into her car. She didnt do anything to harm the dogs, they literally chased after her (both of them) and bit her 13 times, once in the neck and she had numerous amount of stiches. These dogs are highly highly aggressive, their bread like that, they've always have been, they have more of a chemical upmake in their systems that make them more aggressive than any other bread of dog. What is the benefit of having these animals? It's not about the owner, as of some will say on this board that makes them mean, its genetics, they've done studies on this. IIRC there was an article on the study that was posted here on the planet, and no Im not gonna dig through the archives to find it. Theres just no positive reasoning for having these dogs in a community.

First of all you don't know jack shit about the subject. Almost everything they call a pit bull is not even a pit bull. They call many breeds that now so they can get up the bite total because real pits rarely ever bite people unless they were abused. Secondly this isn't a pit bull thing it's a dog thing. Why don't you try reading through some of the thread or learning a little bit more about the subject before you enlighten us with your media fueled/zero experience opinion. As long as we are just going to start randomly slaughtering stuff why don't we start with you for being a complete dumbass.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:07 PM
Facts:

1.There are 61 million dogs in this country.

2.Since the 70's the bite totals in America have varied but always averaged out the same at 16 deaths per year. This meens that one in .0000002 dogs will kill someone. This includes the bad guys.

3. They estimate 300k people in this country get bit annually. Keeping in mind these are not reported bites just estimates. Actual reported bites are way lower. THat means that less than one half of one percent of all dogs actually bite someone. This icludes the bad guys.

This is not a crisis it's a joke perpetrated by fear mongers and PETA types. I wonder what the national estimate would be for criminals who stopped what they were doing because of a dog considering there are an estimated 2.5 million successfull defensive gun uses in this country annually. I'll bet the number would be staggering.

Chiefnj
06-15-2006, 02:14 PM
If pit bull breeders sold their dogs to responsible owners this wouldn't be a big problem. Police yourself and you don't have to worry about others doing it for you.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 02:25 PM
What a frickin' joke. I'm not familiar with most of those breeds, but I have first hand knowledge of boxers (I just lost my 12 year old female this spring).

I don't know how anyone with a shred of intelligence could consider boxers as a dangerous breed. It is common knowledge in the dog world that boxers are one of the most gentle breeds to have around children.

:clap:

This post is 100% correct. MOF, I actually recommended a boxer to the poster looking for a puppy. I think people think boxers must have some kind of pit bull in them and that they look mean and therefore must be vicious. I have not seen one vicious boxer. I've seen more vicious poodles than boxers.

As far as the rest of the list. There are two dogs on the list that I would lose NO sleep over if they were banned and those are pit bulls and Rotts.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:25 PM
If pit bull breeders sold their dogs to responsible owners this wouldn't be a big problem. Police yourself and you don't have to worry about others doing it for you.

You know what the biggest biter is here locally? Labs

What the call Pit Bulls now includes American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, American Staffordshire Terrier and anything that remotely resembles any of these dogs. Once again there isn't a problem they just need a demon so they can go after many breeds. If you own any of these you better start trying to make sure BSL doesn't go down in your area.

*American Pit Bull Terrier
*American Staffordshire Terrier
*Staffordshire Bull Terrier
*Rottweiler
*Bull Mastiff
*Doberman Pinscher
*St. Bernard
*Dogo Argentino
*German Shephard
*Akita
*Chow Chow
*Boxer
*Rhodesian Ridgeback
*Dogue de Bordeaux
*Husky
*Wolf Hybrid
*Great Pyrenees

We need to punsih the deed not the breed and hold owners accountible. Breed specific genocide is not the answer. I don't mind being policed but do it the right way.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 02:26 PM
If pit bull breeders sold their dogs to responsible owners this wouldn't be a big problem. Police yourself and you don't have to worry about others doing it for you.

This would work if you could agree on what 'responsible' means and if you could guarantee the original owner will always have the dog. You can't do either.

tk13
06-15-2006, 02:28 PM
There was an attack in Indianapolis a couple weeks ago, just horrible stuff. This mother was with her 4 year old and 2 year old walking down the street, and I guess one of the neighbors left the door open and the pit bull came outside and attacked the 2 year old girl. Completely mauled her, about lost an eye, had to reattached, and try to rebuild her skull. Her recovery could take months or years. It's amazing she even lived.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wrtv/20060601/lo_wrtv/9303286

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:29 PM
:clap:

This post is 100% correct. MOF, I actually recommended a boxer to the poster looking for a puppy. I think people think boxers must have some kind of pit bull in them and that they look mean and therefore must be vicious. I have not seen one vicious boxer. I've seen more vicious poodles than boxers.

As far as the rest of the list. There are two dogs on the list that I would lose NO sleep over if they were banned and those are pit bulls and Rotts.


You are truly a POS on every level. Thanks for proving me right as to where you would weigh in on this. You never cross the party line. I swear you would eat your own young if it was the party line. If you work in a vets office you already know there is nothing wrong with those dogs and you know what is they are trying to accomplish in passing BSL. Every time I think I can't be more disgusted by your existence you take it to another level.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:30 PM
There was an attack in Indianapolis a couple weeks ago, just horrible stuff. This mother was with her 4 year old and 2 year old walking down the street, and I guess one of the neighbors left the door open and the pit bull came outside and attacked the 2 year old girl. Completely mauled her, had to reattach an eye, reattach an ear, and try to rebuild her skull. Her recovery could take months or years. It's amazing she even lived.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wrtv/20060601/lo_wrtv/9303286

When in doubt find a horror story. What a joke. Notice how they rarely show a picture of the dog. Also notice it's the only dog stories ever reported my the media.

tk13
06-15-2006, 02:37 PM
When in doubt find a horror story. What a joke. Notice how they rarely show a picture of the dog. Also notice it's the only dog stories ever reported my the media.
You expect the dog to be taken in for mug shots? Haha... I don't care what kind of dog it is, if it does that to a little girl the owner should be hit in the face with a tire iron about 50 times. Period.

penguinz
06-15-2006, 02:39 PM
When in doubt find a horror story. What a joke. Notice how they rarely show a picture of the dog. Also notice it's the only dog stories ever reported my the media.Totally untrue. I saw a dog story on the news the other day that was about a dog that water skis. :)

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:39 PM
You expect the dog to be taken in for mug shots? Haha... I don't care what kind of dog it is, if it does that to a little girl the owner should be hit in the face with a tire iron about 50 times. Period.

Yes, holding owner and dogs accountible is the answer. So is promoting the subject fairly instead of promoting fear based on the breed unfairly.

tk13
06-15-2006, 02:40 PM
Actually this good timing, I guess another man was attacked by two pit bulls in Indianapolis this morning. And they did take pictures of them. They're discussing inacting some kind of law in Indy because there's been about 4 attacks in recent weeks, especially after that little girl was hurt.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5036015

http://wthr.images.worldnow.com/images/5036015_BG1.jpg
http://wthr.images.worldnow.com/images/5036015_BG2.jpg

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 02:41 PM
I think people think boxers must have some kind of pit bull in them and that they look mean and therefore must be vicious.
Exactly. Where I lived before, we had a completely fenced in yard, with the mailbox on the front gate. The mailman would not drop off the mail on days the dogs were out (my roommate had a boxer too) because he thought they were pit bulls.

That's the problem with banning specific breeds. The morons making these laws wouldn't know a pit bull from a chihuahua. Pretty soon all dogs will be banned.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 02:48 PM
Exactly. Where I lived before, we had a completely fenced in yard, with the mailbox on the front gate. The mailman would not drop off the mail on days the dogs were out (my roommate had a boxer too) because he thought they were pit bulls.

That's the problem with banning specific breeds. The morons making these laws wouldn't know a pit bull from a chihuahua. Pretty soon all dogs will be banned.

That is going a bit overboard. There is no movement to ban Collies, or Labs, or Pointers, or Bichons or Dachshunds. The reason there is an interest in banning certain types of dogs is because certain types of dogs are primarily responsible for the most vicious and mortal attacks. Yes, it's true ANY dog can attack under the right circumstances but there are some that are more quick to respond with anger and force and they also will not stop when commanded to do so once they start to get out of hand.

The entire debate is really silly. There is no inherent/second amendment right in the constitution stating a citizen is entitled to own a certain type of dog. I think it's completely within the right of govenrments to control the population of certain types of animals in order to protect the greater good.

Chiefnj
06-15-2006, 02:50 PM
You know what the biggest biter is here locally? Labs

.

I'm sure Labs are the #1 biter since there are so many labs around chances are there would be higher bite #. However, fortunately for labs, they don't do the same amount of destruction that a pit bull does when it latches on.

The answer is responsible breeders and owners. Pit bulls often don't have either and the dogs will suffer because of it.

When you watch an episode of COPS and they respond to some meth head in a double wide, or some row house full of crack sellers/users you never see a weiner dog in the background barking - always a pit bull.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:54 PM
Actually this good timing, I guess another man was attacked by two pit bulls in Indianapolis this morning. And they did take pictures of them. They're discussing inacting some kind of law in Indy because there's been about 4 attacks in recent weeks, especially after that little girl was hurt.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5036015

http://wthr.images.worldnow.com/images/5036015_BG1.jpg
http://wthr.images.worldnow.com/images/5036015_BG2.jpg


Fear Monger away. If you look long enough you probably find some info on the breed being the dog of the debil. Don't bother with the numbers or the facts or the history of BSL though. Don't bother with temperment testing or the fact that they call many breeds including anything that remotely resembles a pit a pit. I have been posting the real numbers for a long time now on this subject as well as the history of BSL and you haven't responded to any of it. It's quite clear at this point that all you can bring to the table is cut and paste fear monger articles from the media feeding frenzy on the subject.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm sure Labs are the #1 biter since there are so many labs around chances are there would be higher bite #. However, fortunately for labs, they don't do the same amount of destruction that a pit bull does when it latches on.

The answer is responsible breeders and owners. Pit bulls often don't have either and the dogs will suffer because of it.

When you watch an episode of COPS and they respond to some meth head in a double wide, or some row house full of crack sellers/users you never see a weiner dog in the background barking - always a pit bull.

So what will banning and slaughtering them accomplish? Do you think the meth lab will go with wiener dogs once you have slaughtered all the pits?

Pennywise
06-15-2006, 02:57 PM
I bet if you walked up behind that lady in front of the cage and went "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!" really loud it would scare the shit out of her.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:00 PM
I bet if you walked up behind that lady in front of the cage and went "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!" really loud it would scare the shit out of her.

ROFL

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 03:01 PM
The entire debate is really silly. There is no inherent/second amendment right in the constitution stating a citizen is entitled to own a certain type of dog. I think it's completely within the right of govenrments to control the population of certain types of animals in order to protect the greater good.Right. Because enforcing personal responsibility upon the dog owners or breeders is never the answer.

BD is right in that once pit bulls have been banned across the country, which breed will be next? God knows there will always be irresponsible owners, so of course we have to ban the "breed du jour".

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 03:06 PM
These are the breeds they are going to go after once they get some legislation passed. If you have any of these breeds you should be seriously concerned and fight against all BSL.

*American Pit Bull Terrier
*American Staffordshire Terrier
*Staffordshire Bull Terrier
*Rottweiler
*Bull Mastiff
*Doberman Pinscher
*St. Bernard
*Dogo Argentino
*German Shephard
*Akita
*Chow Chow
*Boxer
*Rhodesian Ridgeback
*Dogue de Bordeaux
*Husky
*Wolf Hybrid
*Great Pyrenees

What about Alaskan Malamutes?

FAX
06-15-2006, 03:08 PM
Actually, I am leading a movement to do away with the Dachshund.

Our Manifesto:

The Anti-Dachshund Party hereby states its deep commitment to the utter, complete, and absolute destruction of the wiener dog. The assumption that wiener dogs exist for any purpose whatsoever is completely unacceptable and we consider that the disgusting nature of the wiener dog undermines human dignity.

The ADP intends to raise public awareness of the need to eliminate wiener dogs from the face of the earth and would pass appropriate legislation to inform the electorate and to enact policies aimed at dealing with this overly-lengthy and disgustingly long-eared breed through the use of extreme violence whenever and wherever they are found.

Be advised; If you are part wiener dog, you are wiener dog. If you harbor a wiener dog, you are wiener dog.

FAX

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:08 PM
Right. Because enforcing personal responsibility upon the dog owners or breeders is never the answer.

BD is right in that once pit bulls have been banned across the country, which breed will be next? God knows there will always be irresposibble owners, so of course we have to ban the "breed du jour".

All the dogs I posted earlier are banned in different parts of the country. There were 22 last I checked about a year ago. This has never been a pit bull thing it has been a dog thing and Denise knows that. She just won't ever cross the party line no matter how much she knows they are wrong. At this point I am having a hard time believing she ever worked for a vet based on what she has said. I think it is just another default to I'm an expert on the subject line she has used numerous times over the years. She hits two birds with one stone on this one being that she looks employed as well.

tk13
06-15-2006, 03:09 PM
Fear Monger away. If you look long enough you probably find some info on the breed being the dog of the debil. Don't bother with the numbers or the facts or the history of BSL though. Don't bother with temperment testing or the fact that they call many breeds including anything that remotely resembles a pit a pit. I have been posting the real numbers for a long time now on this subject as well as the history of BSL and you haven't responded to any of it. It's quite clear at this point that all you can bring to the table is cut and paste fear monger articles from the media feeding frenzy on the subject.
Relax there buddy. I wasn't even trying to argue with you. I never once said I was in favor of even banning these animals. I was just posting that story about that little girl, which I thought was pretty bad. If I was really all up in arms about killing pit bulls I believe I would've posted that article two weeks ago when it actually happened... like you do any time you get a piece of information you want to talk about.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:10 PM
What about Alaskan Malamutes?

Malamutes should be on there too. Great posts BTW. People who are for BSL don't want to know the facts though.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 03:11 PM
Right. Because enforcing personal responsibility upon the dog owners or breeders is never the answer.

BD is right in that once pit bulls have been banned across the country, which breed will be next? God knows there will always be irresponsible owners, so of course we have to ban the "breed du jour".

Oh, I agree with the whole personal responsibility thing and agree that owners need to be held responsible for their dogs. Therefore, if your dog murders someone the owner should be jailed for involuntary manslaughter due to their inability to control their dog.

But trying to hold breeders accountable for the actions of the buyer's dog is similiar to holding gun merchants responsible for their gun being used by an irresponsible owner in a murder. It doesn't make any sense. The gun owner is the one who should be paying the price, not the merchant who sold it. Same goes for dogs.

A breeder can be very selective in their choice of owners but there is no guarantee that the owner's situation won't change thus making it nearly impossible for them to guarantee they've sold to a responsibile owner. You can screen and you can interview and check references but in the end it's still a prayer that all goes well.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:15 PM
Relax there buddy. I wasn't even trying to argue with you. I never once said I was in favor of even banning these animals. I was just posting that story about that little girl, which I thought was pretty bad. If I was really all up in arms about killing pit bulls I believe I would've posted that article two weeks ago when it actually happened... like you do any time you get a piece of information you want to talk about.

I probably get 20 e-mails a day from different organizations fighting BSL. I don't even post 1/1000th of what I receive and could post. I have all the contacts to fight the INDY proposal if somebody posting here lived there as an example. It's been my frusteration that every time this type of legislation is proposed when the anti-BSL people bring all the facts to the table all the other side wants to do is try and incite fear instead of looking for a real answer. I hate that more than anything. If I came across harsh it's because you were starting down that path.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 03:17 PM
At this point I am having a hard time believing she ever worked for a vet based on what she has said. I think it is just another default to I'm an expert on the subject line she has used numerous times over the years. She hits two birds with one stone on this one being that she looks employed as well.

Like I said before... answering the phone at a hospital doesn't make me a doctor.

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 03:17 PM
Breeder responsibility is a little bit of a gray area, IMO. "Real breeders" (ie, professioanls) are probably inherently more responsible (not all of them though), but the trailer trash meth head who breeds his aggressively trained pit and then sells the pups to other irresponsible owners is a problem.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:18 PM
Oh, I agree with the whole personal responsibility thing and agree that owners need to be held responsible for their dogs. Therefore, if your dog murders someone the owner should be jailed for involuntary manslaughter due to their inability to control their dog.

But trying to hold breeders accountable for the actions of the buyer's dog is similiar to holding gun merchants responsible for their gun being used by an irresponsible owner in a murder. It doesn't make any sense. The gun owner is the one who should be paying the price, not the merchant who sold it. Same goes for dogs.

A breeder can be very selective in their choice of owners but there is no guarantee that the owner's situation won't change thus making it nearly impossible for them to guarantee they've sold to a responsibile owner. You can screen and you can interview and check references but in the end it's still a prayer that all goes well.

You should have said that to begin with instead of agreeing to the slaughter of millions of families innocent pets. I actually agree with everything you posted there.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 03:19 PM
Like I said before... answering the phone at a hospital doesn't make me a doctor.

Nope, it doesn't. Neither does being a tech or assistant. But it sure does mean you see and hear and learn alot more things than average Joe.

KC Dan
06-15-2006, 03:20 PM
Nope, it doesn't. Neither does being a tech or assistant. But it sure does mean you see and hear and learn alot more things than average Joe.
Butm I did stay at a Holiday Express once!

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 03:20 PM
Breeder responsibility is a little bit of a gray area, IMO. "Real breeders" (ie, professioanls) are probably inherently more responsible (not all of them though), but the trailer trash meth head who breeds his aggressively trained pit and then sells the pups to other irresponsible owners is a problem.

Well trailer trash meth breeders are less a problem than puppy mill ones...

Anyone with two horny dogs can breed without papers. I would venture to guess that most people who own the pit bull variety are not real concerned with the papers. I'm not certain the same can be said about Rots.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 03:21 PM
Butm I did stay at a Holiday Express once!

Good for you. I've never been a big fan of Holiday Inn...

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 03:22 PM
Butm I did stay at a Holiday Express once!
He's not lying. It was the one at 71 and 58 in Belton. I saw him there once.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 03:24 PM
He's not lying. It was the one at 71 and 58 in Belton. I saw him there once.

I've never been to Belton either. ;)

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 03:24 PM
:clap:

This post is 100% correct. MOF, I actually recommended a boxer to the poster looking for a puppy. I think people think boxers must have some kind of pit bull in them and that they look mean and therefore must be vicious. I have not seen one vicious boxer. I've seen more vicious poodles than boxers.

As far as the rest of the list. There are two dogs on the list that I would lose NO sleep over if they were banned and those are pit bulls and Rotts.

A RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Dartgod
06-15-2006, 03:24 PM
Well trailer trash meth breeders are less a problem than puppy mill ones...

Anyone with two horny dogs can breed without papers.
Absolutely, and they should be punished for engaging in those practices. FTR, thats what I meant earlier by breeder responsibilty. In no way should the breeder be held responsible for an attack after they have sold the dog.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 03:29 PM
Malamutes should be on there too. Great posts BTW. People who are for BSL don't want to know the facts though.


Unbelieveable.

I had a Malamute awhile back he was kind of wild until I got him neutroed and trained and he was the nicest dog even before that He just loved being around people.

Inspector
06-15-2006, 03:31 PM
:clap:

This post is 100% correct. MOF, I actually recommended a boxer to the poster looking for a puppy. I think people think boxers must have some kind of pit bull in them and that they look mean and therefore must be vicious. I have not seen one vicious boxer. I've seen more vicious poodles than boxers.

As far as the rest of the list. There are two dogs on the list that I would lose NO sleep over if they were banned and those are pit bulls and Rotts.

As a matter of fact, my wife and I were attacked by one of those large poodles a few years ago while walking down the street.

It had pink ribbons on it's head.

We've never been attacked by any other dog.

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 03:32 PM
i let my dogs run loose, drives me crazy the nieghborhood kids are always calling them from up and down the street for them to come play.

i bitch and moan that they have a job to do and cant do it if theyre playing,though niether dogs nor children seem to give a shit.

meh.whatcha gonna do?

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 03:33 PM
As a matter of fact, my wife and I were attacked by one of those large poodles a few years ago while walking down the street.

It had pink ribbons on it's head.

We've never been attacked by any other dog.





How traumatic. The bitches!

http://www.wcrosby.com/poodles.jpg

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 03:33 PM
As a matter of fact, my wife and I were attacked by one of those large poodles a few years ago while walking down the street.

It had pink ribbons on it's head.

We've never been attacked by any other dog.

i always wanted a standerd poodle just for the reasons above.

your not so tough when you get mauled by FIFI the poodle.:)

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 03:37 PM
Absolutely, and they should be punished for engaging in those practices. FTR, thats what I meant earlier by breeder responsibilty. In no way should the breeder be held responsible for an attack after they have sold the dog.

no they should be punished for breeding in poor traits and knowing shit about the respective breed other than what misinformation has taught them, most of which is perpectuated by the media.

and IMO if a breeder of APBT sells dogs that and knowingly sells them because they are manbiters they should absolutely be held accountable.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:39 PM
Unbelieveable.

I had a Malamute awhile back he was kind of wild until I got him neutroed and trained and he was the nicest dog even before that He just loved being around people.


You have some enthusiasm on this subject. If you want I will hook you up with people who are involved in the anti BSL movement globally. It's a little overwhelming but I just do what I can. The key is voting out the polititians. I don't think we will see any new proposals any time soon here considering what's happened to Speier since she proposed SB-861. That's the kind of response we need nationally.

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 03:41 PM
You have some enthusiasm on this subject. If you want I will hook you up with people who are involved in the anti BSL movement globally. It's a little overwhelming but I just do what I can. The key is voting out the polititians. I don't think we will see any new proposals any time soon here considering what's happened to Speier since she proposed SB-861. That's the kind of response we need nationally.

have you thought of joining any animal husbandry PACS? Its not just about voting out pro BSL politicians.

Lzen
06-15-2006, 03:43 PM
I was attacked by a dog one time about 10 years ago while walking to work, but it wasn't any that are on that list(as far as I know - probably something like an Australian Shepherd). Another time when I was a teenager, I was going up to my girlfriend's house. The neighbors across the street had a Rottweiler. It ran up to the porch and I thought it was gonna attack me. For whatever reason, it didn't. But that scared the crap outta me.

Big Daddy,
some people have brought up some valid points on the problem with these meth heads wanting to have pits. Or they don't necessarily have to be meth heads. I've noticed around here that a lot of young males have pitbulls these days. It's like they think they're tough because they have a pit. WTH?

A question I have for you is what would you propose for these fools who are irresponsible owners? How to prevent or at least cut down on dog bites? Your earlier post mentioned labs but, I don't think that was a fair stat. I would assume there are more labs and therefore more bites by labs. A true number would be the percentage of dog bites that are by these breeds. That would be of interest to me.

Taco John
06-15-2006, 03:43 PM
I hear Pitbulls make great soup.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 03:44 PM
You have some enthusiasm on this subject. If you want I will hook you up with people who are involved in the anti BSL movement globally. It's a little overwhelming but I just do what I can. The key is voting out the polititians. I don't think we will see any new proposals any time soon here considering what's happened to Speier since she proposed SB-861. That's the kind of response we need nationally.


Yeah I was posting facts I believe that people need to be educated on something before they talk. At least go and do some research on the subject or issue at hand. I know more now before today.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:45 PM
have you thought of joining any animal husbandry PACS? Its not just about voting out pro BSL politicians.

Send me the info.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 03:47 PM
You have some enthusiasm on this subject. If you want I will hook you up with people who are involved in the anti BSL movement globally. It's a little overwhelming but I just do what I can. The key is voting out the polititians. I don't think we will see any new proposals any time soon here considering what's happened to Speier since she proposed SB-861. That's the kind of response we need nationally.


I need to have somemore knowledge on this I admit.

There are several factors in thsi

One big factor is the Owners and not being the right kind of owners they should be

Two There is no PIT BULL breed

Three. The people that want this ban need to be better educated

I don't know this for fact but maybe these "pit bulls" are more aggressive when they attack. That does mean that they attack more but when they do attack it is more visious.

Lzen
06-15-2006, 03:49 PM
http://wthr.images.worldnow.com/images/5036015_BG1.jpg
http://wthr.images.worldnow.com/images/5036015_BG2.jpg

Also, I admit that I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say all these different breeds of pits. Well, I think I know what an American Bulldog is. But other than that, eh. What are these that are pictured? And what do you have to say about these dogs that attacked that man? What should be done to prevent this kind of attack?

On another note, I remember several years ago a boy near Manhattan, KS was attacked by 3 rotts while trying to get on his school bus. They killed the boy. The owners were obviously worthless human beings, but how could something like this have been prevented?

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 03:49 PM
I was attacked by a dog one time about 10 years ago while walking to work, but it wasn't any that are on that list(as far as I know - probably something like an Australian Shepherd). Another time when I was a teenager, I was going up to my girlfriend's house. The neighbors across the street had a Rottweiler. It ran up to the porch and I thought it was gonna attack me. For whatever reason, it didn't. But that scared the crap outta me.

Big Daddy,
some people have brought up some valid points on the problem with these meth heads wanting to have pits. Or they don't necessarily have to be meth heads. I've noticed around here that a lot of young males have pitbulls these days. It's like they think they're tough because they have a pit. WTH?

A question I have for you is what would you propose for these fools who are irresponsible owners? How to prevent or at least cut down on dog bites? Your earlier post mentioned labs but, I don't think that was a fair stat. I would assume there are more labs and therefore more bites by labs. A true number would be the percentage of dog bites that are by these breeds. That would be of interest to me.

They call so many breeds and mutts pits now they are considered to be the 2nd most popular dog in the bay area now and they condemn them with the same skewed numbers. Yes I agree it isn't fair. As far as meth labs go when I see them on cops the dogs they have are usually quite a bit bigger than real pits which usually are no bigger than 60 pounds. Most of the ones I have seen on TV have been much larger. As far as bites go the total has been pretty consistant with the amount of dogs we have in this country. I posted the stats earlier.

Lzen
06-15-2006, 04:02 PM
According to the article tk13 posted, they think those dogs attacked that man because the male was trying to protect his female that was in heat. In any case, I think it is pretty obvious that certain breeds can inflict more damage than others. Can we not? So, once again, how do we prevent this? For every responsible owner like Big Daddy or MOhillbilly, there are irresponsible owners that let their dogs or make their dogs(more often than not it is one of those pit breeds) become mean.

Inspector
06-15-2006, 04:03 PM
How traumatic. The bitches!

http://www.wcrosby.com/poodles.jpg


Heheh...

He kinda looked like that, but stood about 3' tall. It was a cute dog, but not in a good mood that day.

The owner said his son had accidentally turned off the electric fence. It was no big deal, ripped an old pair of sweats and lost a bit of meat out of the back of my leg.

I'd sure feel a lot tougher if it had been some kind of badass looking dog.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 04:12 PM
According to the article tk13 posted, they think those dogs attacked that man because the male was trying to protect his female that was in heat. In any case, I think it is pretty obvious that certain breeds can inflict more damage than others. Can we not? So, once again, how do we prevent this? For every responsible owner like Big Daddy or MOhillbilly, there are irresponsible owners that let their dogs or make their dogs(more often than not it is one of those pit breeds) become mean.

People will always breed real dogs therefore the answer is in holding the owners accountible not in randomly going after the dogs.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 04:16 PM
http://www.pets.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31

Big Daddy go here .

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 04:16 PM
I need to have somemore knowledge on this I admit.

There are several factors in thsi

One big factor is the Owners and not being the right kind of owners they should be

Two There is no PIT BULL breed

Three. The people that want this ban need to be better educated

I don't know this for fact but maybe these "pit bulls" are more aggressive when they attack. That does mean that they attack more but when they do attack it is more visious.
1)the breeders are not following the laws layed down by countless generations of breeders before them.

2) The American Pitbull Terrier is absolutely a set strain.

3)bulldog phenotypes arent like other canine phenotypes. other canine phenotypes bite and release. so you end up w/ puncture wounds.imagine your cells are grapes and when pressure is placed on your grapes they explode,painfull yes.
Now bulldog types were bred to have a diffrent biting trait,one that bites holds and shakes. causing massive laserations as well as punctures.

the latent man biting gene is a trait that would and should never be tolerated in and bulldog type. barking and acting tuff is ok but biters get the bullet.

in my personal experince ive culled dogs that you could spend 2weeks pay on just for a nip.
Cull hard and ruthless and abide by the laws of bulldog breeding and if you set a strain you wont have manbiters.

learn and understand the trait of your breed and cull accordingly.

tuffshit if you hit a puppy in the head w/ a hammer, its better than having them eat a child and perpectuating poor traits for years to come(its easy to **** a breed up and very very hard to breed them straight and true again)

Dick stranton writes very good no bullshit factual books about all aspect of the APBT and its cousins and is an excellent place to start.

jettio
06-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Perhaps the solution is to limit the population.

I recommend that each municipality set some arbitrarily low figure, round up all the dogs and have them battle it out in the octagon texas death match style for the right to keep on keepin' on.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 04:24 PM
1)the breeders are not following the laws layed down by countless generations of breeders before them.

2) The American Pitbull Terrier is absolutely a set strain.

3)bulldog phenotypes arent like other canine phenotypes. other canine phenotypes bite and release. so you end up w/ puncture wounds.imagine your cells are grapes and when pressure is placed on your grapes they explode,painfull yes.
Now bulldog types were bred to have a diffrent biting trait,one that bites holds and shakes. causing massive laserations as well as punctures.

the latent man biting gene is a trait that would and should never be tolerated in and bulldog type. barking and acting tuff is ok but biters get the bullet.

in my personal experince ive culled dogs that you could spend 2weeks pay on just for a nip.
Cull hard and ruthless and abide by the laws of bulldog breeding and if you set a strain you wont have manbiters.

learn and understand the trait of your breed and cull accordingly.

tuffshit if you hit a puppy in the head w/ a hammer, its better than having them eat a child and perpectuating poor traits for years to come(its easy to **** a breed up and very very hard to breed them straight and true again)

Dick stranton writes very good no bullshit factual books about all aspect of the APBT and its cousins and is an excellent place to start.


Translator please

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Send me the info.

your box is full, ya ho.

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Perhaps the solution is to limit the population.

I recommend that each municipality set some arbitrarily low figure, round up all the dogs and have them battle it out in the octagon texas death match style for the right to keep on keepin' on.

it would be a short fight as most dogs will quit long before they take there death or kill another dog.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 04:30 PM
"FATAL DOG ATTACKS"
The Stories Behind the Statistics
by Karen Delise

THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

Number of Dogs
68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog
32% was the result of a multiple dog attack

Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).

The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).
Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.

Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Reproductive Status of Dogs
Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.

Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).

States with the Most Fatalities - 1965-2001
California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.

While at times informative, statistics on fatal dog attacks can also be misleading. For example, a number of cases were a Pit Bull, Rottweiler or GSD were counted as causing a human fatality were in reality the direct result of gross human negligence or criminal intent (i.e. discarding a newborn in the yard where the dogs were kept, or cases of extremely emaciated animals, or cases were the dog was ordered or encouraged to attack the victim).
This study was conducted not to determine which breeds of dogs caused fatalities, but rather to examine the circumstances and events that precipitated an attack. Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.
The preceding information and statistics are excerpts from the book:

* "FATAL DOG ATTACKS: The Stories Behind the Statistics", by Karen Delise

John_Wayne
06-15-2006, 04:33 PM
....... i still think bans are the best thing for the breed....... Don't let Big Duddy hear you say that! :eek:

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 04:33 PM
he knows how i feel.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 04:33 PM
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#homicide

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 04:34 PM
http://www.dogbitelegalcenter.com/resources/dogbite-statistics.html

John_Wayne
06-15-2006, 04:35 PM
*Wolf Hybrid

Now that's a great idea for the kids!!!! :shake:

MOhillbilly
06-15-2006, 04:36 PM
you can post stats till the day is long and it doesnt mean a thing.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 04:36 PM
Don't let Bid Duddy hear you say that! :eek:
.

BIG_DADDY
06-15-2006, 04:39 PM
your box is full, ya ho.

I got 2 seconds to post. I will clear it out tomorrow I gotta run.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 04:56 PM
Responsible ownership the alternative to breed banning, other restrictions
DEAN J. MONTI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A man is out for a stroll in his community with his Bull Terrier. He is stopped by the local animal control officer and told that "pit bulls" are restricted from his community. The man cannot prove that his dog is not a pit bull-type dog and that it is a well-trained, household pet. The dog is confiscated and euthanatized.

Think it could never happen in your community? Although only one state currently has a statewide breed restriction (Ohio), hundreds of communities within the United States are actively pursuing breed bans and breed-restrictive legislation.

When Robert Duffy, executive director of the American Dog Owners Association, learned that breed banning attempts in Germany during the past year included approximately 16 breeds, he worried that the spectrum of breed banning in the United States could increase as incidents characterize certain breeds as dangerous.

"We get involved in many of these issues," he said, "writing to legislators, asking how animal control officers can be charged with enforcing breed bans and restrictions when they have little or no training to identify specific breeds. Even if they could, there is really no way of defining what a 'pit bull' is and isn't."

In an ADOA letter he sends to legislators across the country, Duffy cites approximately 15 breeds that are similar in appearance to breeds that have been targeted as dangerous. "Owners of these dogs would not take kindly to their dogs being misidentified and something bad happening to them as a result," he said. "In a lot of cases the animal control officer is the final judge."

Duffy has identified cities all over the country that are attempting to ban or restrict pit bull-type dogs, and, increasingly, Rottweilers. In October, the village of Broadview, Ill, passed a breed-restrictive ordinance adding Doberman Pinscher to those two categories. According to Duffy, Broadview is not a home rule state, and is therefore bound by Illinois law that doesn't allow for breed-restrictive ordinances. He said that Broadview's passing the ordinance, therefore, may be in violation of Illinois law. Broadview is not unique, however. Duffy added that many communities disregard state laws when pursuing these ordinances, which could open the door for lawsuits if an owner's pet is treated unjustly. Duffy has been keeping a close watch on the kinds of breed that are being singled out.

"Pit bull-type dogs, Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Terrier are among other breeds being targeted of late," he said. "Rare and mixed breeds are also victims."

According to Dr. Randall Lockwood, vice president of research and educational outreach for the Humane Society of the United States, "Constitutional and practical issues are raised in the enforcement of breed-specific ordinances because of difficulty inherent in determining breed with certainty."

Data in a report published in the Sept 15, 2000 issue of the JAVMA indicate that breed-specific legislation is not the solution to dog bite prevention. The report revealed that, during the past 20 years, at least 25 breeds of dog have been involved in 238 human fatalities. Pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers were identified as being involved in 66 and 39 fatalities, respectively, over that 20-year period; however, other purebreds and crossbreds caused the remainder of fatalities.

Twenty-four percent of deaths involved dogs that were not restrained and were not on their owners' property, 58 percent of deaths involved dogs that were not restrained but were on their owners' property, 17 percent involved restrained dogs on their owners' property, and one percent involved a restrained dog off its owners' property.

Dr. Gail C. Golab, co-author of the study and assistant director of the AVMA Education and Research Division, confirmed, "Breeds responsible for human fatalities have varied over time. Since 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds—including Dachshunds, Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers, and a Yorkshire Terrier—have been responsible for fatal attacks on people."

The authors of the study say that, although fatal human attacks may appear to be a breed-related problem, dogs of other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates.

"A dog of any breed can become dangerous when bred or trained to be aggressive," Dr. Jeffrey Sacks, epidemiologist for the CDC, said. "Fatal attacks represent only a very small proportion of dog bite injuries and shouldn't be the primary factor driving public policy regarding dangerous dogs."
Duffy said that when a breed is restricted in a community, or if certain breeds are put on the "bad dog" list, insurance rates for owners of those dogs become exorbitant.

"It's really a kind of banning," he said, "because the liability rates imposed are so great that most people can't afford the insurance. In some places, you can't even get liability insurance because you own a [dog of a] certain breed."

Inevitably, he says, owners who have trained, well-behaved dogs become affected by the small percentage of owners whose dogs have been involved in aggressive incidents.

"All the responsible owners of the breed are put to financial hardship," Duffy said. "Their insurance is likely to go right out the window."

Duffy would prefer to see communities adopt a law that takes all breeds of dog into consideration and is focused on penalizing the owner of the dog with the objectionable behavior.

Dr. Golab agrees. She favors consistent enforcement of generic, non-breed-specific, dangerous-dog laws with an emphasis on chronically irresponsible owners. She recommends increased enforcement of animal control ordinances such as leash laws and fencing requirements, prohibition of dog fighting, and neutering. Dr. Golab also emphasizes the value of educational programs for adults and children that teach pet selection strategies, pet care and responsibility, and bite prevention.Pediatrician and medical epidemiologist Dr. Julie Gilchrist from the CDC also promotes the idea of responsible pet ownership. "Dog bite reduction strategies are more likely to be effective if they focus on reducing inappropriate dog and dog owner behaviors, regardless of the dog's breed, instead of on banning specific breeds."
The AVMA's dog bite prevention campaign continues to inform the public about techniques for avoiding dog bites, and to promote responsible pet ownership. Breeds don't need to be banned, but dog owners' irresponsible behavior should be.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon Granskog, AVMA public information assistant, contributed to this report.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 05:03 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060206fa_fact

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 05:10 PM
Responsible ownership the alternative to breed banning, other restrictions
DEAN J. MONTI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A man is out for a stroll in his community with his Bull Terrier. He is stopped by the local animal control officer and told that "pit bulls" are restricted from his community. The man cannot prove that his dog is not a pit bull-type dog and that it is a well-trained, household pet. The dog is confiscated and euthanatized.



Something sounds fishy about this... :hmmm:

The man need only have taken his dog to a Vet(s) who would try to determine the breed and then provide a letter certifying that in his opinion the dog is NOT a bull terrier and therefore should not be in violation of the law. He could have also provided a letter certifying that the dog had been in obedience classes/school with a signature from the trainer testifying to the temperment of the dog.

If he couldn't find a Vet to write the letter it's not because they can't but because they won't say it's not what it probably was.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 05:13 PM
you can post stats till the day is long and it doesnt mean a thing.

You are right.

I think a greater determination is asking the question would you rather be confronted by a stranger Lab or Pit Bull? Most sane people would say Lab and that is NOT by accident.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 05:15 PM
You are right.

I think a greater determination is asking the question would you rather be confronted by a stranger Lab or Pit Bull? Most sane people would say Lab and that is NOT by accident.


Education.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 05:16 PM
Education.

Experience.

I thought nothing of leaving my old lab alone with my 3 year old while I went to the little girl's room. There would be no way in hell I would have done the same with a pit or rott.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 05:26 PM
Experience.

I thought nothing of leaving my old lab alone with my 3 year old while I went to the little girl's room. There would be no way in hell I would have done the same with a pit or rott.


No you don't understand. Every dog owner needs education on about their dog. ALso people need to be educated when it comes to loose dogs.

75% of these ARE MALE DOGS UNALTERED.

If they are altered and go thru obdient classes then it would cut down on these attacks.

Bannning is not the answer Education is.

KingPriest2
06-15-2006, 05:26 PM
Experience.

I thought nothing of leaving my old lab alone with my 3 year old while I went to the little girl's room. There would be no way in hell I would have done the same with a pit or rott.


You still made a mistake. Read the articles.

memyselfI
06-15-2006, 05:40 PM
You still made a mistake. Read the articles.

Yeah, I know I made a mistake...but it was a mistake I COULD make.

As far as the altering the dog being the answer...

good luck with that. The country is FILLED with unwanted pets because owners fail to get their pets altered. Do you really think the type of people who obtain pitbulls or rotts will give a hoot if there are regulations requiring the dogs be altered? Especially if the altering of the dog is going to somehow diminish their worth when it comes to the protection or fighting element.

Again, good luck with that.

KingPriest2
06-16-2006, 12:21 AM
Yeah, I know I made a mistake...but it was a mistake I COULD make.

As far as the altering the dog being the answer...

good luck with that. The country is FILLED with unwanted pets because owners fail to get their pets altered. Do you really think the type of people who obtain pitbulls or rotts will give a hoot if there are regulations requiring the dogs be altered? Especially if the altering of the dog is going to somehow diminish their worth when it comes to the protection or fighting element.

Again, good luck with that.


THat is the best way. Not banning.

Bob Dole
06-16-2006, 12:31 AM
Experience.

I thought nothing of leaving my old lab alone with my 3 year old while I went to the little girl's room. There would be no way in hell I would have done the same with a pit or rott.

Bob Dole had a female Rottie that was the world's largest lapdog.

One of Bob Dole's best friends currently has a female pit that's about a year old now, and she is one of the most docile, friendly dogs you would ever hope to meet. She's afraid of Bob Dole's male chihuahua for cryin' out loud.

Inspector
06-16-2006, 06:28 AM
Bob Dole had a female Rottie that was the world's largest lapdog.

One of Bob Dole's best friends currently has a female pit that's about a year old now, and she is one of the most docile, friendly dogs you would ever hope to meet. She's afraid of Bob Dole's male chihuahua for cryin' out loud.

I think we should ban chiuahua's.

I almost tripped on my son's once.

Lzen
06-16-2006, 10:09 AM
Thanks, KingPriest2. That is some interesting info.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 10:23 AM
Here is the tally for BSL nationally this year.

Arizona
Show Low: BSL PASSED and UPHELD
Luke Airforce Base: Passed
Arkansas
Bald Knob-decides against BSL
Shannon Hills-decides against BSL
Searcy-decides against BSL
Mulberry-decides against BSL
Russellville-passes BSL 5-2006
Pine Bluff-passed
California
Berkeley-current
Sonoma County-mandatory s/n
LA County-mandatory s/n
Lompoc-current
Colorado
Arvada-(and all of Jefferson County including Wheat Ridge, Arvada and Golden) current
SB054-doesnt pass
Parker-Current
Golden-decides against BSL
Estes Park-decides against BSL
Northglenn-decides against BSL
LaJunta-decides against BSL
Lakewood-Current
Layfayette-decides against BSL
Longmont-decides against BSL
Rocky Ford-decides against BSL
Lone Tree-passed BSL
Castle Rock-BSL
Commerce City-BSL
Ft. Lupton-BSL
Louisville-BSL
Federal Heights-decides against BSL
Westminster-decides against BSL
Aurora-passed BSL
Delaware
New Castle County-decides against BSL
Georgia
Rockmart--decides against BSL
Idaho
Fruitland-passes BSL
Illinois
Kewanee-decides against BSL
Waukegan-decides against BSL
Northlake -Current
Rockford-Current
McHenry County-decides against BSL
Normal-decides against BSL
Paxton-decides against BSL
Forest-decides against BSL
Bloomington-decides against BSL
Will County-decides against BSL
Chicago-decides against BSL
North Chicago-decides against BSL
Elgin-current
Lincolnshire-decides against BSL
Lincolnwood-Current
Hodgkins-decides against BSL
Indiana
Anderson-decides against BSL
Indianapolis-Current
Iowa
Humbolt-decides against BSL
Humboldt Iowa-Current
Mason City, Iowa-Current
Waterloo, Iowa-Current
Kansas
Leavenworth-decides against BSL
Witchita-decides against BSL
Overland Park-Current
Kentucky
Dayton-passes BSL
Frankfort -decides against BSL
Louisville-current
Lietchfield-decides against BSL
Milton-decides against BSL
Lincoln County-decides against BSL
Spencer County-decides against BSL
Middlesboro-decides against BSL
Mayfield-passed
Paintsville-Current
Louisianna
Lake Charles-decides against BSL
Sulpher-decides against BSL
Maryland
Thurmont-Current
North Beach-5-2006-discovered ban
Town of Port Deposit-5-2006-discovered ban
Brockton, Maryland-Current
Massachusetts
Fall River-current
Salem-decides against BSL
Michigan
Detroit-repealed
Ecourse-Passed
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Missouri
Belton-repealed
Oak Grove-decides against BSL
Springfield-passed
Bellfontaine Neighbors-decides against BSL
Unionville-decides against BSL
Jennings-decides against BSL
Trenton-Current
Kansas City Missouri-Current
Independence Missouri-Current
Ridgeway, Missouri-Current
Mississippi
Kosciusko-Current
Hinds County-Current
Boliver County-passes BSL
Richland-passes BSL
Jackson-current
Florence-Current
New Jersey
state-TABLED
New Mexico
Santa Fe County-current
Ohio
Lancaster-decides against BSL
East Palestine-decides against BSL
HB533
Pennsylvania
Wilkes Barre-decides against BSL
Hazelton, Pennsylvania-decides against BSL
South Carolina
Rock Hill-current
Tennessee
Bedford County-decides against BSL
Woodbury- decides against BSL
Texas
Killeen-decides againt BSL
San Antonio-Current
West Virginia
Wheeling-passed
Wisconsin
Eau Claire-Current
Yorkshire-passed in 1996

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 10:25 AM
Thanks, KingPriest2. That is some interesting info.

I like his enthusiam here but I will not cut the balls off my dog. MOF I may breed him soon.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 10:29 AM
Check out the new application form the HSUS wants everyone to fill out before even holding an animal.

http://www.rense.com/general71/datamined.htm

KingPriest2
06-16-2006, 10:40 AM
I like his enthusiam here but I will not cut the balls off my dog. MOF I may breed him soon.



If people are legit breeders then that would be ok otherwise I think they need to be altered

What do you think?

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 10:44 AM
You are right.

I think a greater determination is asking the question would you rather be confronted by a stranger Lab or Pit Bull? Most sane people would say Lab and that is NOT by accident.

i dont want to confront any strange dog.
but if you know the language you can get a good gauge on how the dog is.

the breed isnt really as important as what the individual is trying to tell you.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 10:58 AM
If people are legit breeders then that would be ok otherwise I think they need to be altered

What do you think?

You end up with all the wrong people legislating it for all the wrong reasons, that's the proble. Furthermore it is unenforceable legislation. I am not for unenforceable legislation. I think the answer lies entirely on on ownership accountibility and punishing the deed. To me there are no chances. A dog the bites and innocent person should be put down 1st offense. The owner should be held liable and charges should be filed accordingly.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 11:18 AM
If people are legit breeders then that would be ok otherwise I think they need to be altered

What do you think?

You end up with all the wrong people legislating it for all the wrong reasons, that's the proble. Furthermore it is unenforceable legislation. I am not for unenforceable legislation. I think the answer lies entirely on on ownership accountibility and punishing the deed. To me there are no chances. A dog the bites and innocent person should be put down 1st offense. The owner should be held liable and charges should be filed accordingly.

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 11:20 AM
You end up with all the wrong people legislating it for all the wrong reasons, that's the proble. Furthermore it is unenforceable legislation. I am not for unenforceable legislation. I think the answer lies entirely on on ownership accountibility and punishing the deed. To me there are no chances. A dog the bites and innocent person should be put down 1st offense. The owner should be held liable and charges should be filed accordingly.

I agree,but only if its a latent attack.

KingPriest2
06-16-2006, 11:23 AM
You end up with all the wrong people legislating it for all the wrong reasons, that's the proble. Furthermore it is unenforceable legislation. I am not for unenforceable legislation. I think the answer lies entirely on on ownership accountibility and punishing the deed. To me there are no chances. A dog the bites and innocent person should be put down 1st offense. The owner should be held liable and charges should be filed accordingly.


Then how can you correct that?

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 11:24 AM
clear some smokes troy.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 11:27 AM
clear some smokes troy.

You got it.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 11:29 AM
Then how can you correct that?

I just did. You can't do it on the front end.

KingPriest2
06-16-2006, 11:29 AM
The thing that makes me mad is everyone hears something and jumps and the bandwagon and they don't even bother to learn about it.

This happens on everything just not this.



I never have had a pitt or Rott but I have had a Malamute.

I know alot more about this subject now.

It is NOT THE BREED.

Experts from all sides have stated this and people don't realize it. They are so gung ho that they don't get the facts.

Dartgod
06-16-2006, 11:31 AM
A man is out for a stroll in his community with his Bull Terrier. He is stopped by the local animal control officer and told that "pit bulls" are restricted from his community. The man cannot prove that his dog is not a pit bull-type dog and that it is a well-trained, household pet. The dog is confiscated and euthanatized.
Something sounds fishy about this... :hmmm:

The man need only have taken his dog to a Vet(s) who would try to determine the breed and then provide a letter certifying that in his opinion the dog is NOT a bull terrier and therefore should not be in violation of the law. He could have also provided a letter certifying that the dog had been in obedience classes/school with a signature from the trainer testifying to the temperment of the dog.Why is it fishy? You don't think that some Barney Fife in some small town couldn't pull this off without giving the owner the chance to prove his innocence? I find this story to be VERY believable.

BTW, the dog WAS a Bull Terrier. The animal control officer confused it to be a pit bull.
If he couldn't find a Vet to write the letter it's not because they can't but because they won't say it's not what it probably was.WTF are you babbling about in this sentence?

KingPriest2
06-16-2006, 11:32 AM
I just did. You can't do it on the front end.




Hey you should bring up that website again that asked if you could ID a Pitt Bull or a Rott. Not the thread but make a new thread with it.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 11:40 AM
Hey you should bring up that website again that asked if you could ID a Pitt Bull or a Rott. Not the thread but make a new thread with it.

You got a dog?

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 11:41 AM
clear some smokes troy.

You move your pups?

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 11:45 AM
You move your pups?

all but the shy one and the one i wanted. ive been working on the shy one hes coming around(hes a smiler).

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 11:51 AM
all but the shy one and the one i wanted. ive been working on the shy one hes coming around(hes a smiler).

The guy with the Mayday stock we talked about before had a guy return two pups because of his landlord. He has the Humane Society all over him and now he has too many dogs. I could probably get them to you for the price of shipping as he already got his money for them. Two 4 month old females that will end up in the 50 pound range and are papered. GREAT dogs.

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 11:52 AM
The guy with the Mayday stock we talked about before had a guy return two pups because of his landlord. He has the Humane Society all over him and now he has too many dogs. I could probably get them to you for the price of shipping as he already got his money for them. Two 4 month old females that will end up in the 50 pound range and are papered. GREAT dogs.

hit my smokes w/ a price and ped.

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 12:08 PM
hit my smokes w/ a price and ped.

I won't be able to reach the guy until Monday. I sent you the ped of the female awhile back when I was considering getting her sister. The Father was Damian son of Mayday but I forget who the female was. It was heavy Mayday blood. I cold probably get it to you for the price of shipping as he is looking to move it quick because of the HS. We don't have Damian for a stud here anymore. The guy who had him sold him for 10k. This is a picture of him.

KingPriest2
06-16-2006, 12:14 PM
You got a dog?

I had a terrier and cockapoo when I was a kid. THen I had a Malamute wonderful dog he was, and now I have a golden retriever (hyper dog going thru obedient training) My sister in law has 2 german shepards great dogs, My wifes family use to have a golden and a lab 2 of the best dogs ever.

Years ago they use (in Laws) use to have a 2 labs. ON lab was so smart he was to open the garage door. My FIL always wondered on how he got out. The dog also got pizza out of a box and CLOSED IT. He also got caught by the dog pound and then when he was in dog jail escaped and not letting himself out lefted the gates open for all the other dogs.

Monkeylook4food
06-16-2006, 12:18 PM
Translator please

His post made perfect sense to me.

BigRedChief
06-16-2006, 12:24 PM
Hey Big Daddy since I live in Lee's summit they might listen to me more than others. How do I find my representive and let them know I'm against the law?

Lzen
06-16-2006, 12:24 PM
You end up with all the wrong people legislating it for all the wrong reasons, that's the proble. Furthermore it is unenforceable legislation. I am not for unenforceable legislation. I think the answer lies entirely on on ownership accountibility and punishing the deed. To me there are no chances. A dog the bites and innocent person should be put down 1st offense. The owner should be held liable and charges should be filed accordingly.

After reading a lot of the info posted here, I think I tend to agree with this. Of course, if the dog bites some kids that are messing with it through the fence, that's their own fault.

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 12:36 PM
After reading a lot of the info posted here, I think I tend to agree with this. Of course, if the dog bites some kids that are messing with it through the fence, that's their own fault.


the thought occurs to me about the relation between the high prey drive of some animals and small children that scream yell squel and run in a yard/street next to a family (atleast two) high preydrive animals.

children left w/out adult supervision and animals not properly restrained.

whos really at fault if an attack occurs?


the parent or the dog owners? I mean can you say w/ 100% certainty?

BIG_DADDY
06-16-2006, 12:39 PM
Hey Big Daddy since I live in Lee's summit they might listen to me more than others. How do I find my representive and let them know I'm against the law?

Here are the addresses:
Mayor-Karen.Messerli@lees-summit.mo.us
Council
jhallam@mid-west.net
hofmann.kathy@gmail.com
rrhoads@mid-west.net (opposes)
rwilliam@mid-west.net (doesn't want ban, but might be o.k. with BSL)
jspallo@sbcglobal.net
cockrelled@yahoo.com (he has proposed the legislation)
jffreeman@att.net
Swearngin@gmail.com

elvomito
06-16-2006, 12:43 PM
i've owned pits many times throughout life...
on one occasion, i had a papered pit, 1983 i think, that attacked a child. this was the same child that teased/taunted her several times while she was chained... dogs do not forget. who's fault was it?
point is, people, especially children, need to be tought how to respect and interact with dogs, ie let the dog sniff your hand... if you want to pet the dog, go for under the chin and not on the head which is a dominating move and could provoke. things like this should be tought, maybe in those 20 second commercials during cartoons. ignorance of the general public will not be cured by removing things that could allow them to hurt themselves, it will only make it worse, just like the war on drugs.
imagine the war on pits... they will be bred/sold underground, but with less focus on quality breeding. and the problem will grow. prohibition always results in a worse situation than what it is trying to prevent.
for instance, outlawing the fighting of dogs techinically had a negative impact on pits right? manbiters who bit a human in the ring were instantly diagnosed as such and put down, correct? now there is no such test for 99% of the dogs created today. (i may be wrong, thats just what i've read)
btw, chows are manbiters by nature... ****ers, i hatem

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 12:49 PM
imagine the war on pits... they will be bred/sold underground, but with less focus on quality breeding. and the problem will grow. prohibition always results in a worse situation than what it is trying to prevent.
for instance, outlawing the fighting of dogs techinically had a negative impact on pits right? manbiters who bit a human in the ring were instantly diagnosed as such and put down, correct? now there is no such test for 99% of the dogs created today. (i may be wrong, thats just what i've read)
btw, chows are manbiters by nature... ****ers, i hatem

the animal welfare act of 76' did more to **** up the breed imo than anything else.
it lifted the breed to an outlaw mindset.

and yeah your correct to a point on the rest of it.
phenominal combat dogs were not putdown. Adams Zebo was a known manbiter biting one owners child and taking his ear off. This line as far as im concerned is still manbiters.(its hard to set them straight once theyre wrong)

Lzen
06-16-2006, 12:54 PM
the thought occurs to me about the relation between the high prey drive of some animals and small children that scream yell squel and run in a yard/street next to a family (atleast two) high preydrive animals.

children left w/out adult supervision and animals not properly restrained.

whos really at fault if an attack occurs?


the parent or the dog owners? I mean can you say w/ 100% certainty?

If the dog is not restrained, the owner is at fault.

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 01:00 PM
If the dog is not restrained, the owner is at fault.


thats where you get into a gray area. what is proper restraint?

Lzen
06-16-2006, 02:00 PM
thats where you get into a gray area. what is proper restraint?

If your dog can climb a fence or figure out how to get out another way, then a chain is a proper restraint. Otherwise, a fence will do. A dog's owner should know what his animal is capable of.

go bowe
06-16-2006, 02:28 PM
If your dog can climb a fence or figure out how to get out another way, then a chain is a proper restraint. Otherwise, a fence will do. A dog's owner should know what his animal is capable of. i dunno...

i think my lab-chow pound puppy is smarter than me...