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View Full Version : Ozzie Guillen is an Ass Clown


'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 11:35 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2485365

This is a joke. Demoting a guy to AAA because he didn't hit a batter. I understand the macho culture of baseball, but this is f*cking ridiculous.

BWillie
06-15-2006, 11:42 AM
I like Ozzie, he called Magglio Ordonez a "piece of shit" last year. I like people who have balls and don't say the politically correct stuff, even if it is wrong.

SPchief
06-15-2006, 11:45 AM
yet another reason to hate the whitesox

HemiEd
06-15-2006, 11:48 AM
I hate the White Sox, but I like this call. I bet his kids don't wear helmets and knee pads to ride a bike either.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 11:53 AM
I hate the White Sox, but I like this call. I bet his kids don't wear helmets and knee pads to ride a bike either.

This filters down to little league. Example, last weekend my player was picking up the signals on 2nd base and relaying it the batter. The opposing coach warned me to tell him to stop or he will tell his pitcher to hit the batter and hit him hard. I said...huh? What? this is little league. He warned me again and the umpire heard us talking and stopped the game and warned him of an ejection if anyone is hit. I just told my player to be quiet to diffuse the situation.

HemiEd
06-15-2006, 11:57 AM
This filters down to little league. Example, last weekend my player was picking up the signals on 2nd base and relaying it the batter. The opposing coach warned me to tell him to stop or he will tell his pitcher to hit the batter and hit him hard. I said...huh? What? this is little league. He warned me again and the umpire heard us talking and stopped the game and warned him of an ejection if anyone is hit. I just told my player to be quiet to diffuse the situation.

I had no idea, some parents need to get their head screwed on straight. It has no place in little league IMO.

HolmeZz
06-15-2006, 11:58 AM
We used to bean guys in high school. I always thought it was stupid and I'd feel guilty after it happened.

ChiTown
06-15-2006, 12:04 PM
We used to bean guys in high school. I always thought it was stupid and I'd feel guilty after it happened.

Pretty common when I played ball in HS.

It's a part of the game. Is it senseless? Sure, but that's just the way the game is played.

You either deal with it, or play something else....

NJ Chief Fan
06-15-2006, 12:08 PM
if i were a national league pitcher id throw at bonds' head every time i faced him and if i was in the american league id throw throw at gay-rods head

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 12:08 PM
Pretty common when I played ball in HS.

It's a part of the game. Is it senseless? Sure, but that's just the way the game is played.

You either deal with it, or play something else....

I don't have problem with people beaning guys, or pitchers buzzing people to get control of the inside part of the plate...but to send a guy down to AAA because he didn't do this is absolute bullshit in my opinion. You can tell the guy that a message has to be sent, but to rip his balls off in public and then Fed Ex his ass down to the minors is a bush league move.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:12 PM
This filters down to little league. Example, last weekend my player was picking up the signals on 2nd base and relaying it the batter. The opposing coach warned me to tell him to stop or he will tell his pitcher to hit the batter and hit him hard. I said...huh? What? this is little league. He warned me again and the umpire heard us talking and stopped the game and warned him of an ejection if anyone is hit. I just told my player to be quiet to diffuse the situation.

If I were a little league coach, I'd tell my pitcher to hit your player as well. Stealing signals has no place in little league...it's called CHEATING

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 12:13 PM
If I were a little league coach, I'd tell my pitcher to hit your player as well. Stealing signals has no place in little league...it's called CHEATING

Don't forget to whip the umpire's ass because he made the wrong call on a borderline strike against your son.

CoMoChief
06-15-2006, 12:13 PM
This is all about the sport of the game. If you bean us we will bean you type of thing. If a rookie pitcher doesnt understand thats the way you play, then he needs to be on the bench. If a coach tells you to do something you do it. Hitting batters isnt necessarily a bad thing, yes it can be dangerous but if you cant handle te nature of the game then dont play. I've had really hard nose coaches in my life playing baseball and I think Ozzie did the right thing. It's called sticking up for your teammates. This could be the same thing said about the Kyle Turley throwing the helmet incident. If I was an Olineman and I saw someone take a cheap shot at my QB Im gonna do something to that player to let it be known that he wont ever do that again.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:19 PM
Don't forget to whip the umpire's ass because he made the wrong call on a borderline strike against your son.

I don't have a son, nor would I do that. But the fact that he seemed amazed that a coach would have a pitcher hit one of his batters strikes me as funny. His player was stealing signals for Christ's sake. Your player and the coach for allowing it is the one at fault here. Not the coach trying to protect his team.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 12:19 PM
If I were a little league coach, I'd tell my pitcher to hit your player as well. Stealing signals has no place in little league...it's called CHEATING

That's retarded. Stealing signs is part of the game. It goes on at every level. Even at the major league level it's only illegal to steal them by electronic means, such as using a TV camera.

I'd dare you to find it in your little league rulebook too.

If your catcher isn't hiding the signals well enough or if you as a coach aren't capable of switching signs during a game or creating a system that an 8-year old kid can't deciper, that says more about you than it does about the other team.

Baseball is turning from the gritty but chivalrous game of old, with respected unwritten rules into a pussified shadow of its former self.

If you aren't trying to give your team an edge you aren't trying. And getting an edge is not the same as cheating. It's no different than play recognition in football or throwing over and over at the corner that you know sucks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 12:21 PM
That's retarded. Stealing signs is part of the game. It goes on at every level. Even at the major league level it's only illegal to steal them by electronic means, such as using a TV camera.

I'd dare you to find it in your little league rulebook too.

If your catcher isn't hiding the signals well enough or if you as a coach aren't capable of switching signs during a game or creating a system that an 8-year old kid can't deciper, that says more about you than it does about the other team.

Baseball is turning from the gritty but chivalrous game of old, with respected unwritten rules into a pussified shadow of its former self.

If you aren't trying to give your team an edge you aren't trying. And getting an edge is not the same as cheating. It's no different than play recognition in football or throwing over and over at the corner that you know sucks.

:Bartee:

Cochise
06-15-2006, 12:21 PM
I don't have a son, nor would I do that. But the fact that he seemed amazed that a coach would have a pitcher hit one of his batters strikes me as funny. His player was stealing signals for Christ's sake. Your player and the coach for allowing it is the one at fault here. Not the coach trying to protect his team.

You think it's ok to throw at a batter, but you don't think it's ok to steal signs? :spock:

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:22 PM
That's retarded. Stealing signs is part of the game. It goes on at every level. Even at the major league level it's only illegal to steal them by electronic means, such as using a TV camera.

If your catcher isn't hiding the signals well enough or if you as a coach aren't capable of switching signs during a game or creating a system that an 8-year old kid can't deciper, that says more about you than it does about the other team.

Baseball is turning from the gritty but chivalrous game of old, with respected unwritten rules into a pussified shadow of its former self.

If you aren't trying to give your team an edge you aren't trying. And getting an edge is not the same as cheating. It's no different than play recognition in football or throwing over and over at the corner that you know sucks.

I understand your point. Just don't bitch about it when I tell my pitcher to smoke your batter with a fastball because I'm getting my teams "edge" back.

vailpass
06-15-2006, 12:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2485365

This is a joke. Demoting a guy to AAA because he didn't hit a batter. I understand the macho culture of baseball, but this is f*cking ridiculous.

Apparently you don't.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 12:24 PM
I understand your point. Just don't bitch about it when I tell my pitcher to smoke your batter with a fastball because I'm getting my teams "edge" back.

That's fine. But when you want to take it from part of the game into throwing at batters, your batters are going to get thrown at too.

The kid on second was stealing signs. Your team can steal signs too. You are the one who escalated it into batters getting hit instead. I hope that making sure everyone knew the other team wasn't showing you up is worth sending an 8 year old up to the plate when you know he's going to get a baseball thrown at his head because of your ego.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:24 PM
You think it's ok to throw at a batter, but you don't think it's ok to steal signs? :spock:

I dont' think stealing signs has a place in Little League ball, nor do I think hitting batters has a place in Little League ball. BUT, if you are going to steal signs then I am going to have my pitcher put a ball up your players brown eye

vailpass
06-15-2006, 12:28 PM
You think it's ok to throw at a batter, but you don't think it's ok to steal signs? :spock:

Sounds crazy but that is the code in MLB. If you get caught stealing signs you better be ready for one of your batters to take some chin music.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:29 PM
That's fine. But when you want to take it from part of the game into throwing at batters, your batters are going to get thrown at too.

The kid on second was stealing signs. Your team can steal signs too. You are the one who escalated it into batters getting hit instead. I hope that making sure everyone knew the other team wasn't showing you up is worth sending an 8 year old up to the plate when you know he's going to get a baseball thrown at his head because of your ego.

I'm not even part of this particular game, my whole point is that Big Red Chief seemed like he was totally shocked and just couldn't believe that a coach would do this. YOUR PLAYER WAS STEALING SIGNS. Some coaches may have their players steal signs. Some coaches may have their pitchers hit a batter. Everyone has their strategy.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:31 PM
All I can say is that if I were coaching, I wouldn't have said a word to the other coach. I would've asked my team how they wanted to retaliate. I would never actually ask a kid to hit another kid. I would also never ask my LITTLE LEAGUE TEAM to steal signs.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 12:35 PM
I'm not even part of this particular game, my whole point is that Big Red Chief seemed like he was totally shocked and just couldn't believe that a coach would do this. YOUR PLAYER WAS STEALING SIGNS. Some coaches may have their players steal signs. Some coaches may have their pitchers hit a batter. Everyone has their strategy.

The team getting their signs stolen was only being victimized because the catcher sucks at communicating with the pitcher discretely. You can't fault the other team for taking advantage of a weakness. If we knew that the second baseman couldn't catch a cold when I was little, we turned all those base hits into doubles.

All the other manager had to do was tell the catcher to visit the mound and come up with a pitch sequence when there was a runner on 2B, hide his fingers better, change the signs every inning, have the pitcher cross up the catcher on every second or third pitch. Whatever. There are a hundred ways he could have resolved it without being a crybaby.

If it's grown men playing the game then fine. But if you want to send little kids up to get baseballs bounced off their skulls, just to prove that the other manager can't show you up, there's something wrong with you.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:39 PM
LITTLE LEAGUE

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 12:41 PM
If I were a little league coach, I'd tell my pitcher to hit your player as well. Stealing signals has no place in little league...it's called CHEATING

The kid doesn't know how to steal signs. I've never talked to them about sign stealing. He was guessing 1 = fastball 2 = curve etc...

Little leaguers throwing at other little leaguers on purpose has no place in the game at that level.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:43 PM
My point has nothing to do with showing up another manager.

Hitting balls at a 2nd baseman because they are terrible is fine. Running on a catcher because he can't throw is great. But in LITTLE LEAGUE, stealing signs is too much. Stealing signs is done in high school, college, and the majors. And if you get caught doing it, you get hit. So I'm just saying, quit crying like a little bitch when I say I'm going to hit one of your batters.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 12:44 PM
My point has nothing to do with showing up another manager.

Hitting balls at a 2nd baseman because they are terrible is fine. Running on a catcher because he can't throw is great. But in LITTLE LEAGUE, stealing signs is too much. Stealing signs is done in high school, college, and the majors. And if you get caught doing it, you get hit. So I'm just saying, quit crying like a little bitch when I say I'm going to hit one of your batters.

If you're hitting batters because you can't effectively coach your team, who is being the little bitch?

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:44 PM
The kid doesn't know how to steal signs. I've never talked to them about sign stealing. He was guessing 1 = fastball 2 = curve etc...

Little leaguers throwing at other little leaguers on purpose has no place in the game at that level.

Tell your player to cut that sh*t out then. Or be prepared to tell some kid's dad and mom that the reason their son got beaned was because you didn't object to one of your players stealing signs.

StcChief
06-15-2006, 12:45 PM
The kid doesn't know how to steal signs. I've never talked to them about sign stealing. He was guessing 1 = fastball 2 = curve etc...

Little leaguers throwing at other little leaguers on purpose has no place in the game at that level.

Little league - Should be tryin' to throw a Curve anyway.

That's how kids get hit... I was knocked out by a lefty trying to learn to throw a curve. Right under the helmet, when it didn't break

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:46 PM
If you're hitting batters because you can't effectively coach your team, who is being the little bitch?

Oh I actually would have to argue that hitting one of your batters would send a pretty clear message, thus being very effective.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 12:52 PM
Like I mentioned above though, I (meaning myself) would never ask a kid to hit another kid. But I would also never allow someone on my team to steal signs in a LITTLE LEAGUE game. I'm just trying to show the point of the other coach. It was his belief that the other team shouldn't be stealing signs in a LITTLE LEAGUE game, so he came up with an in-game solution to combat the stealing of the signs. A 10 year old catcher shouldn't have to be concerned with how well he covers up his signals...they have a hard enough time just catching the junk that kids attempt to throw these days, which is a whole other issue.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 12:55 PM
Little league - Should be tryin' to throw a Curve anyway.

That's how kids get hit... I was knocked out by a lefty trying to learn to throw a curve. Right under the helmet, when it didn't break

None of my pitchers throw curve balls but they have to face pitchers that do about 25% of the time.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 01:00 PM
None of my pitchers throw curve balls but they have to face pitchers that do about 25% of the time.

How old are we talking about here?

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 01:01 PM
How old are we talking about here?
14 and under AA competitive baseball

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 01:05 PM
I thought we were discussing little kids here. 14 isn't so little, but as someone who suffered from a few elbow problems, it is too young to have kids throwing curves unless they can do it without snapping their arms, which most kids don't. My brother taught me how to throw a slider w/out snapping my arm, but it was too late. Last time I pitched I was 16 and my arm still hurts today from throwing curves as a kid..I am 24

tk13
06-15-2006, 01:16 PM
I'll post the unpopular opinion and agree with this other guy. If you're aggressive enough to be stealing signs in little league baseball, you're old enough to take a fastball in the ribs. I'm not sure that's how I'd handle it but it'd have to be taken care of somehow. It's not like most of these kids are Greg Maddux out there with a huge selection of pitches.

wutamess
06-15-2006, 01:19 PM
If I were a little league coach, I'd tell my pitcher to hit your player as well. Stealing signals has no place in little league...it's called CHEATING

Damn right he should've been hit.
Just because it's little league doesn't mean it's a fuccing free-for-all.
What better way to get someones attention of cheating than to fright fire with fire?

Frazod
06-15-2006, 01:27 PM
Getting back to the original subject of the thread:

Ozzie = BOSS
Pitcher = EMPLOYEE

Sounds like the moral of the story here is to do what your boss tells you, especially if you're a borderline AAA call-up looking to break into the majors.

Duh.

phisherman
06-15-2006, 01:28 PM
Damn right he should've been hit.
Just because it's little league doesn't mean it's a fuccing free-for-all.
What better way to get someones attention of cheating than to fright fire with fire?


shut up noob

bobbything
06-15-2006, 01:35 PM
"To be honest with you," former Cy Young Award winner Steve Stone said, "sign-stealing used to be much more of an art than it is now. But as long as you are not stealing signs from the scoreboard, using a camera or something, then you are stealing legitimately."

"The 1984 (division-winning) Cubs were as good a team as I saw doing that," Stone said. "When I was with the 1971 Giants, we were the best team I'd ever seen at the time. We had a coach, Wes Westrum, he was sensational at it. Within three innings, he would have all the pitches down. The idea that sign-stealing was just invented, that it was just discovered by Matt Morris and that it outraged La Russa, is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

"I don't really have a problem with stealing signs," Buck Showalter said. "The important thing is that there are ways to keep it from happening to you.

"I don't understand how somebody gets upset about it. It's not shame on them for stealing, but shame on you for allowing it to happen. A lot of times, paranoia sets in. You see guys who aren't very good but are taking good swings at breaking balls for a whole series, and you start to wonder what he knows.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 01:43 PM
shut up noob

It's n00b you friggin n00b :harumph:

ChiTown
06-15-2006, 01:43 PM
Damn right he should've been hit.
Just because it's little league doesn't mean it's a fuccing free-for-all.
What better way to get someones attention of cheating than to fright fire with fire?

Give me a fn break. Stealing signs, especially at the little league level in no big deal. Hell, most major leaguers just expect it, and don't throw at batters who steal signs.

JBucc
06-15-2006, 01:46 PM
I can't understand him half the time but usually Ozzie is pretty entertaining. I wish he was the royals manager.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 01:47 PM
I can't understand him half the time but usually Ozzie is pretty entertaining. I wish he was the royals manager.

He'd reenact the final scene from "Scarface" the second week on the job.

Shootr
06-15-2006, 01:49 PM
Guillen is far from an @ss clown. I wish Buddy Bell/Tony Pena had the sack Guillen does. How many times has Sweeney (when he's actually playing) been hit or knocked down with ZERO retaliation in the past few years?! Guillen plays the game how it should be played.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-15-2006, 01:49 PM
Getting back to the original subject of the thread:

Ozzie = BOSS
Pitcher = EMPLOYEE

Sounds like the moral of the story here is to do what your boss tells you, especially if you're a borderline AAA call-up looking to break into the majors.

Duh.

If he keeps being this abrasive, he's on the fast track to losing his team. Just wait until they hit a protracted slide, him running his mouth all the time will piss the wrong guys in the clubhouse off, and he'll have the majority of them tuning him out.

tk13
06-15-2006, 01:49 PM
Those are professional baseball players. I think that's different than a bunch of kids. If you want to play win at all costs, then you have to live with the consequences.

I mean, these kids are what, 12-14 years old? They just want to have fun... not turn it into a math problem. "Now Jimmy, we're going off the third sign... now we're taking the 2nd sign after he makes a fist." You have to curb stealing signs somehow though. If I were a pitcher I'd definitely want to because I don't want some guy knocking my head off with a ball up the middle because he knows what is coming.

Calcountry
06-15-2006, 01:57 PM
I had no idea, some parents need to get their head screwed on straight. It has no place in little league IMO.This having to throw baseballs to settle stuff is crap. They should just let the guys duke it out like they do in Hockey.

Very Simple. If you fight, you are ejected from the game, regardless of who started it.

If you instigate a fight, then you are subject to an immediate 5 game suspension without pay, no appeals, sole discretion of the umpires calling the game and the commissioner. Pitchers miss their next 2 starts, so 2 weeks from the incident for the pitchers.

If you join in a fight, 3rd guy in, 10 game suspension IMMEDIATELY from the date of the game.

Now, if it is worth fighting over, lets get it on. I want to see it. But the umps should let the big guys get it on, not try to break it up. Let them tap out if they have had enough ass kicking.

Baseball has got to do something to connect with the younger fans. This might be the way to do it. ;)

HemiEd
06-15-2006, 02:09 PM
This having to throw baseballs to settle stuff is crap. They should just let the guys duke it out like they do in Hockey.

Very Simple. If you fight, you are ejected from the game, regardless of who started it.

If you instigate a fight, then you are subject to an immediate 5 game suspension without pay, no appeals, sole discretion of the umpires calling the game and the commissioner. Pitchers miss their next 2 starts, so 2 weeks from the incident for the pitchers.

If you join in a fight, 3rd guy in, 10 game suspension IMMEDIATELY from the date of the game.

Now, if it is worth fighting over, lets get it on. I want to see it. But the umps should let the big guys get it on, not try to break it up. Let them tap out if they have had enough ass kicking.

Baseball has got to do something to connect with the younger fans. This might be the way to do it. ;)

You make a great case, as others have said this should be fun for them at little league age.
It has been a long time ago, but the pitchers just were not that good when I was in LL. They were naturaly wild, part of the lesson was to stand in there without bailing out.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 02:13 PM
You make a great case, as others have said this should be fun for them at little league age.

I'm not interested in making little johnny the next Pujols or Clemons. I'm interested in creating an enviorment that teamwork, sportsmanship and fun are allowed to flourish in addition to learning how to hit a baseball.

tk13
06-15-2006, 02:15 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not saying people should be allowed to hit each other in little league. Just that if you want to play like "the big boys", getting buzzed inside is no different than stealing signs to me, just part of the game. I think you have to protect the pitcher too. He's standing at a shorter distance and doesn't need teams taking tee shots up the box at him all afternoon.

Calcountry
06-15-2006, 02:16 PM
I understand your point. Just don't bitch about it when I tell my pitcher to smoke your batter with a fastball because I'm getting my teams "edge" back.Hey dumbass. You could let that work to your advantage.

For instance. They think they know your signals. one= fastball 2=curveball.

How bout flipping the signals for this game? Better yet. How about a "key". You know, give five or six signals real fast, then have a new key before each game. The real signal is the one that follows immediately following the "key".

Of course, our coach, back in the day got ridiculed for us "acting" all fancy and stuff. I mean, we did car washes and earned money so that we could by matching jackets and duffel bags with our numbers and names embossed on them. Set us apart from the rest of them. Got in their heads and took their minds off of the game.

Our coach had an erase signal as well. So if he went through all the crap, then gave an erase signal, then he could have put something on, then took it off at the last minute. Just in case the other team thought they had it all figured out.

Sometimes, he would purposely "play" the other coach. Call time out, call the batter to the coaching box, then send him back and give the sign, and it was the sign for a bunt. Then the bunt would happen, and the other coach would "know" our sign. But he didn't know the key and the erase signal. heeheheh.

Now, if you can't get your kids to sell out on the signal thing, then perhaps that says something about you as a coach. If we missed signals in practice, once it was a warning, twice meant we didn't start that next game, or benched. He would regularly go over the signals with us in practice, regularly change them or tweak them about once a week. And absolutely always would have a new and unique key and erase signal which was given to us immediately prior to each game.

BigRedChief
06-15-2006, 02:24 PM
Hey dumbass. You could let that work to your advantage.

For instance. They think they know your signals. one= fastball 2=curveball.

He would regularly go over the signals with us in practice, regularly change them or tweak them about once a week. And absolutely always would have a new and unique key and erase signal which was given to us immediately prior to each game.

It's just an indicator. Keep the same signals but they are not active unless the indicator (touch hat, touch thigh etc) is used. This way you don't have to confuse the little leaguers. They remember all the signs and then they just have to remember the change in the indicator.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 02:24 PM
Hey dumbass. You could let that work to your advantage.

For instance. They think they know your signals. one= fastball 2=curveball.

How bout flipping the signals for this game? Better yet. How about a "key". You know, give five or six signals real fast, then have a new key before each game. The real signal is the one that follows immediately following the "key".

Of course, our coach, back in the day got ridiculed for us "acting" all fancy and stuff. I mean, we did car washes and earned money so that we could by matching jackets and duffel bags with our numbers and names embossed on them. Set us apart from the rest of them. Got in their heads and took their minds off of the game.

Our coach had an erase signal as well. So if he went through all the crap, then gave an erase signal, then he could have put something on, then took it off at the last minute. Just in case the other team thought they had it all figured out.

Sometimes, he would purposely "play" the other coach. Call time out, call the batter to the coaching box, then send him back and give the sign, and it was the sign for a bunt. Then the bunt would happen, and the other coach would "know" our sign. But he didn't know the key and the erase signal. heeheheh.

Now, if you can't get your kids to sell out on the signal thing, then perhaps that says something about you as a coach. If we missed signals in practice, once it was a warning, twice meant we didn't start that next game, or benched. He would regularly go over the signals with us in practice, regularly change them or tweak them about once a week. And absolutely always would have a new and unique key and erase signal which was given to us immediately prior to each game.

First off, I thought this was involving little league kids, which I was thinking 9-10 years old. IMO, at that age, you don't need to be stealing signals. Just let the kids play ball. But my defense was that if you consider your team advanced enough to steal signs, then in turn, you should consider them to be tough enough to be pitched inside or pitched at in retaliation. I consider 14 year olds to be near the HS level, so they are grown up enough to play advanced baseball, in which case, your advice would be perfect. Still not sure how it made me a dumbass though?

Cochise
06-15-2006, 02:26 PM
Hey dumbass. You could let that work to your advantage.

For instance. They think they know your signals. one= fastball 2=curveball.

How bout flipping the signals for this game? Better yet. How about a "key". You know, give five or six signals real fast, then have a new key before each game. The real signal is the one that follows immediately following the "key".

Of course, our coach, back in the day got ridiculed for us "acting" all fancy and stuff. I mean, we did car washes and earned money so that we could by matching jackets and duffel bags with our numbers and names embossed on them. Set us apart from the rest of them. Got in their heads and took their minds off of the game.

Our coach had an erase signal as well. So if he went through all the crap, then gave an erase signal, then he could have put something on, then took it off at the last minute. Just in case the other team thought they had it all figured out.

Sometimes, he would purposely "play" the other coach. Call time out, call the batter to the coaching box, then send him back and give the sign, and it was the sign for a bunt. Then the bunt would happen, and the other coach would "know" our sign. But he didn't know the key and the erase signal. heeheheh.

Now, if you can't get your kids to sell out on the signal thing, then perhaps that says something about you as a coach. If we missed signals in practice, once it was a warning, twice meant we didn't start that next game, or benched. He would regularly go over the signals with us in practice, regularly change them or tweak them about once a week. And absolutely always would have a new and unique key and erase signal which was given to us immediately prior to each game.

You're missing something.

It's a lot easier to whine and cry and throw at batters than teach kids how to play the game right.

tk13
06-15-2006, 02:32 PM
You're missing something.

It's a lot easier to whine and cry and throw at batters than teach kids how to play the game right.
Yeah, but that's a subjective opinion. Many would argue that your opinion would be the one "whining" about getting thrown inside, when they're just playing along reacting to what you're doing and playing the game "right".

Frazod
06-15-2006, 02:35 PM
If he keeps being this abrasive, he's on the fast track to losing his team. Just wait until they hit a protracted slide, him running his mouth all the time will piss the wrong guys in the clubhouse off, and he'll have the majority of them tuning him out.

You've gotta be kidding me. They're the DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPIONS. Ozzie ain't losing shit, at least not for a while. And it's not like he sent down Konerko or Thome; just some snot-nosed kid who didn't follow instructions.

Guillen's a passionate guy. With the current bunch of players he has, that works, and the rings attest to the fact that it's working on every level.

Cochise
06-15-2006, 02:36 PM
Yeah, but that's a subjective opinion. Many would argue that your opinion would be the one "whining" about getting thrown inside, when they're just playing along reacting to what you're doing and playing the game "right".

Stealing signs isn't an adult ordering one kid to intentionally injure another little kid though. Both teams can steal signs and both teams can prevent theirs from being stolen.

I mean... to me this is like telling a player to hit a QB's knees because his team just intercepted a pass.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 02:39 PM
Stealing signs isn't an adult ordering one kid to intentionally injure another little kid though. Both teams can steal signs and both teams can prevent theirs from being stolen.

I mean... to me this is like telling a player to hit a QB's knees because his team just intercepted a pass.

You're comparing apples to oranges there bud.

HemiEd
06-15-2006, 02:45 PM
I'm not interested in making little johnny the next Pujols or Clemons. I'm interested in creating an enviorment that teamwork, sportsmanship and fun are allowed to flourish in addition to learning how to hit a baseball.

Exactly, and I think Baseball is the best venue for youngsters to learn those values. **** soccer!

tk13
06-15-2006, 02:45 PM
Stealing signs isn't an adult ordering one kid to intentionally injure another little kid though. Both teams can steal signs and both teams can prevent theirs from being stolen.

I mean... to me this is like telling a player to hit a QB's knees because his team just intercepted a pass.
You don't tell him to intentionally injure the other kid. That's silly. You put the ball in the midsection. Tony LaRussa's philosophy on this is perfect, throw a pitch or two, a curve outside maybe, look like you've lost control, and then put a ball in his ribs. You never, ever, ever aim at a guy's head or above his shoulders.

In fact what I'd do is tell the catcher to put down a different sign. Like if 1 is fastball and 2 is curveball, put down a 4. Then hit the guy. Then I'd have the first pitch to the next batter be a 4, make the kid at 2nd flip out, then throw a fastball right down the middle. That'll teach 'em...haha.

RockChalk
06-15-2006, 02:46 PM
I think all of this depends on your opinion of stealing signs. I sit on the side of the fence that believes it is a "type" of cheating, which most of MLB agrees, as evidenced by hitting a batter if you catch the team doing it. So I would say that I have no issues with a team reacting that way; however, I would NEVER instruct a player to hit a batter...that is up for them to decide, not the coach. Of course, most little league coaches are just trying to make up for their pathetic attempts to play baseball during their childhood anyways. There are still some coaches that actually care whether their team has fun and learns the game the way it was meant to be played.

chiefqueen
06-15-2006, 03:25 PM
In other "hitting the batter news" Randy Johnson has been suspended 5 games by MLB. No word of if he'll appeal it & serve it when the Yankees have an off day conveniently scheduled. The Yankees next off day is a week from today.

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!

Calcountry
06-15-2006, 03:51 PM
You've gotta be kidding me. They're the DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPIONS. Ozzie ain't losing shit, at least not for a while. And it's not like he sent down Konerko or Thome; just some snot-nosed kid who didn't follow instructions.

Guillen's a passionate guy. With the current bunch of players he has, that works, and the rings attest to the fact that it's working on every level.It seems to be working for Jim Leyland of the Tigers as well.

There should be a little bit of Billy Martin in any manager worth a dang.

Valiant
06-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Stealing signs isn't an adult ordering one kid to intentionally injure another little kid though. Both teams can steal signs and both teams can prevent theirs from being stolen.

I mean... to me this is like telling a player to hit a QB's knees because his team just intercepted a pass.


Bad comparison, Hitting batters is part of the game.. 99.9% if you bean a player he will be back up the next at bat.. There are rare instances that a batter does get seriously hurt, and you should never throw at a batters head...

But beaning batters to send a message is a normal strategy in baseball at most lvls... As for stealing signals, everyteam does it, but if you get caught there is hell to pay it is an unwritten rule in baseball... You can complain about it all you want, but any baseball player should know the consequences of it...

As for the Ozzie decision, there is a reason the team responds so well to him, he knows what he is doing... You cannot have some rookie come in and question you or not follow orders... You follow the chain of command, if you do not like it keep your mouth shut or ask for a release...