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vailpass
06-16-2006, 12:59 PM
ARe you tired of the 9 or 10 soccer fans who come out of the closet once every four years and tell you how great soccer is? A few more days and it will all be over for another blessed four years. In the mean time, here is an outstanding article by Bernie Lincome that nicely sums up the US view World Cup. (the line by the English journalist in the last sentence is magnificent).

Rocky Mountain News

Lincicome: World Cup doormat - U.S., eh? U.S., eh?
June 16, 2006

Try as we might, national agony over our stumblebum soccer in Germany is hard to inspire, and neither losing to the Czechs nor making up cockamamie excuses have done it. Nor will the coming embarrassment against Italy cause anyone to weep into his decaf latte.

Our lads shall be returning home completely humiliated, and we will not even bother to ask about the beer in Munich, which is, by the way, without peer or limit.

More likely, should we run across one of our poor countrymen who dared to stand up to world soccer - well, kneel is more like it - our first question would be,

"You've been where?"

Listen, if turning into international basketball foot-wipes won't cause us to shake our fists at morning television, nothing that happens on a soccer pitch is likely to do it.

In the games that matter to us, we save our suffering, sharing it with one another, over enduring fiascoes, like the Arizona Cardinals, the Chicago Cubs, CU hoops.

We've got enough trouble grasping the eroded romance of baseball, a game less of the sandlot these days and more of the pharmacy.

There is only so much misery to bear, and only fools would waste it on corner kicks and languid midfielders instead of worrying about Todd Helton's lack of power at the plate.

The inevitable elimination of the United States from the World Cup will come as somewhat of a surprise, not because more was expected, but since so few Americans have any idea we are in it.

Or even what the World Cup is, though not that long ago it was us who hosted the big party, and how long will it take us to live that down?

It is kind of like hearing about a friend's wedding after the divorce. So, what you're saying is, you are dating again.

In other places, losing coaches are fired, bungling players are shamed (even killed, as I recall), national honor is besmirched. The Ukrainian coach apologized to his nation for losing to Spain, while calling his team gutless.

For rather easily advancing to the next round with shutout victories, England has been complimented as being both woeful and below-par by the English press. Australia, for winning one game against Japan, was lauded as pulling off "the most amazing victory in the history of Australian sport."

And what do we wonder this morning? How's Tiger doing, and how far back is Lefty?

Losing a meaningless departure game to Ghana would do exactly for American soccer what making the quarterfinals in the last World Cup did. It will not cause one fresh fan to demand to know the difference between a sweeper and a striker.

And here's the more important thing: American players get to come back to America, even the naturalized ones, while Italians have to go back to Italy and the Czechs to Prague, which is not a miserable destination if you like living in an outdoor museum.

I mean, if we were serious about national sports failures, we would have made the U.S. hockey team stay in Turin.

We wouldn't have let the basketball team return from Athens. That would have served them both right. And, by the way, there were no apologies, either.

It would be regrettable that our national soccer coach, a fellow named Bruce Arena, finds so much fault with our players, whose names are on file somewhere, and that the players think the coach is full of sawdust, but when a good old-fashioned spitting match can't even push the Stanley Cup back one page or crack the cable sports news, well, at least hockey can feel better about itself.

Another American soccer coach once suggested that more suffering and greater intolerance might be just what the sport is missing in America. What we need, apparently, are more slums and fewer Duke lacrosse teams, and we would be right up there with Brazil and the Ivory Coast.

Our games are ours, and we don't much care whether the rest of the world plays them or not. We can call it the World Series without including the rest of the world, and the World Cup will get along, as it always has, just fine without us.

One imagines a showdown with those old rivals, England and Germany, and recalls a London journalist, after Germany had defeated England in a World Cup soccer match, finding the last word on sports and politics.

"The Germans may have beaten us at our national game," he wrote, "but let's not forget that we have twice beaten them at theirs."

Wars and corner kicks, I guess, can make you wacky.

www.rockymountainnews.com

|Zach|
06-16-2006, 01:08 PM
I personally like soccer in the fact that I enjoy it and it gets under people's skins who don't like it.

Oh well, some will always try too hard.

ct
06-16-2006, 01:15 PM
That is a great quote, and a very true article.

tk13
06-16-2006, 01:18 PM
To be honest... I don't really like soccer. But at this point I'm probably more annoyed by all the people making fun of soccer than the people enjoying the World Cup. It's not funny anymore, that horse has been beaten into the ground. It's DEAD. Haha... I mean every freaking talk show, TV show, internet and newspaper articles... "Yuk yuk, guess what! We don't care about soccer!" [random Lewis Black movements] Welllll, fantastic! Then shut up about it! :)

Saulbadguy
06-16-2006, 01:20 PM
To be honest... I don't really like soccer. But at this point I'm probably more annoyed by all the people making fun of soccer than the people enjoying the World Cup. It's not funny anymore, that horse has been beaten into the ground. It's DEAD. Haha... I mean every freaking talk show, TV show, internet and newspaper articles... "Yuk yuk, guess what! We don't care about soccer!" [random Lewis Black movements] Welllll, fantastic! Then shut up about it! :)
Yeah, same here.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 01:22 PM
I personally like soccer in the fact that I enjoy it and it gets under people's skins who don't like it.

Oh well, some will always try too hard.

Did you read the article? It isn't about soccer getting under anyone's skin but about the difference in views between the US and other countries.
At the end is also showed that England has the ultimate trump over Germany.

ct
06-16-2006, 01:22 PM
To be honest... I don't really like soccer. But at this point I'm probably more annoyed by all the people making fun of soccer than the people enjoying the World Cup. It's not funny anymore, that horse has been beaten into the ground. It's DEAD. Haha... I mean every freaking talk show, TV show, internet and newspaper articles... "Yuk yuk, guess what! We don't care about soccer!" [random Lewis Black movements] Welllll, fantastic! Then shut up about it! :)

Yeah, same here.

Really? So does that mean you're getting tired of ...

DAMNIT CARL!!! :cuss:

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 01:22 PM
So long as ESPN and ABC give me full access to this wonderful event, I could care less about people who aren't interested.
Folks who suffer over the fate of The Arizona Cards, Cubs, or CU hoops are infinitely more pathetic than US soccer fans. Heck they're more pathetic than those who mourn the loss of Arrested Development. F#ck me, they're more pathetic than those who mourn Everwood.

|Zach|
06-16-2006, 01:23 PM
Did you read the article? It isn't about soccer getting under anyone's skin but about the difference in views between the US and other countries.
At the end is also showed that England has the ultimate trump over Germany.
I was more so referring to your contribution.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 01:28 PM
To be honest... I don't really like soccer. But at this point I'm probably more annoyed by all the people making fun of soccer than the people enjoying the World Cup. It's not funny anymore, that horse has been beaten into the ground. It's DEAD. Haha... I mean every freaking talk show, TV show, internet and newspaper articles... "Yuk yuk, guess what! We don't care about soccer!" [random Lewis Black movements] Welllll, fantastic! Then shut up about it! :)

I am equally if not more tired of hearing from the handful of otherwise disenfranchised soccer fans who come out of the closet once every four years to tell us how superior the World Cup is to any other sporting event. How soccer is more difficult, more pure, and more adored world wide than any US sport.
How freaking soccer boys are superior athletes to NFL or NBA stars.

Really? Then explain to me why in a few days you and your soccer talk will dissapear for four more years?
Tired of being ridiculed? Then shut up and enjoy your game in peace without bothering the rest of us while we are watching curling and paintball and womens volleyball.

|Zach|
06-16-2006, 01:30 PM
I am equally if not more tired of hearing from the handful of otherwise disenfranchised soccer fans who come out of the closet once every four years to tell us how superior the World Cup is to any other sporting event. How soccer is more difficult, more pure, and more adored world wide than any US sport.
How freaking soccer boys are superior athletes to NFL or NBA stars.

Really? Then explain to me why in a few days you and your soccer talk will dissapear for four more years?
Tired of being ridiculed? Then shut up and enjoy your game in peace without bothering the rest of us while we are watching curling and paintball and womens volleyball.
Soccer is talked about on this board all the time...

vailpass
06-16-2006, 01:32 PM
Soccer is talked about on this board all the time...

1). Bullshit
2) If you decide to be willingly obtuse by acting like you don't understand my point then the dialogue dies here.

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 01:33 PM
Really? Then explain to me why in a few days you and your soccer talk will dissapear for four more years?
Because the US Soccer team isn't playing an NBA or NFL team?

:p

vailpass
06-16-2006, 01:34 PM
Because the US Soccer team isn't playing an NBA or NFL team?

:p

I got nothin'. :cuss:

Saulbadguy
06-16-2006, 01:35 PM
...on the other hand, I don't hear alot of negative stuff said about soccer in real life, just on message boards.

Seeing that this is a football message board, I doubt you will find that many Soccer fans.

|Zach|
06-16-2006, 01:36 PM
1). Bullshit
2) If you decide to be willingly obtuse by acting like you don't understand my point then the dialogue dies here.
Seriously...soccer is talked about allll the tiiimmmeee on this board. I couldn't make this up if i wanted to.

Dartgod
06-16-2006, 01:47 PM
Seriously...soccer is talked about allll the tiiimmmeee on this board. I couldn't make this up if i wanted to.

Give him a break. Afterall, he IS a Donkey fan.

Donger
06-16-2006, 01:57 PM
"The Germans may have beaten us at our national game," he wrote, "but let's not forget that we have twice beaten them at theirs."

That's absolutely classic! Germans really, REALLY don't like being reminded about those pesky wars.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 02:05 PM
Seriously...soccer is talked about allll the tiiimmmeee on this board. I couldn't make this up if i wanted to.

Okay, if you say so. I'm just a guest but have been around for a while.
I've seen the occasional random soccer comment by the 4-7 posters here who are soccer people but nothing near what I would define as "all the time" soccer conversations.

At any rate you are either deflecting or missing my point: soccer talk/media mention in America happens in the US for a couple of weeks once every four years.
After that it is returned to those Americans who enjoy the sport amongst themselves.

Why do you see this as argumentative or derogatory?

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 02:06 PM
For those of you who like and hate soccer, I recommend that you read Chuck Klosterman's "Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs". He has a chapter devoted to why the US sucks at soccer--basically soccer is the sport for people who don't want to be athletic in this country, and I totally agree with him. here it is structured as a game where kids run back and forth and don't have to suffer the humiliation of striking out or missing a free throw with the game on the line. They just kind of blend in and give the appearance that they are getting their required exercise without ever really having to be competitive.

penguinz
06-16-2006, 02:08 PM
For those of you who like and hate soccer, I recommend that you read Chuck Klosterman's "Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs". He has a chapter devoted to why the US sucks at soccer--basically soccer is the sport for people who don't want to be athletic in this country, and I totally agree with him. here it is structured as a game where kids run back and forth and don't have to suffer the humiliation of striking out or missing a free throw with the game on the line. They just kind of blend in and give the appearance that they are getting their required exercise without ever really having to be competitive.
That is more ignorant than the comments that valipass makes about soccer.

They move on to the other sports, football, basketball, and baseball because that is where the $ is at.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 02:14 PM
That is more ignorant than the comments that valipass makes about soccer.

They move on to the other sports, football, basketball, and baseball because that is where the $ is at.

Show me one ignorant statement I've made regarding soccer? One.

ROFL Okay soccerologist, you don't like the sound of the author's statement so you are immediately qualified to dismiss it? On what research do you base your statement?

Soccer teams in America are LARGELY comprised of kids who can't play football, basketball, or baseball. Those three sports are where all their friends are playing, the most popular in school, the sports they grew up watching/playing etc.

Soccer is big elsewhere because it is in their national fabric. Soccer is inconsequential here becasue it is not part of the fabric. Kids grow up liking/playing/ being good at other sports. This isn't a knock on soccer; just a fact.

Frazod
06-16-2006, 02:16 PM
I remember Lincicome when he wrote for the Chicago Tribune. He was a dick then, and I'm sure he's still a dick.

But every now and then I'd enjoy one of his hateful articles. And I certainly enjoyed this one.

I can't tell you how glad I'll be when this third world shit is mercifully over. World cup hype is the sports equivalent of Rosie O'Donnell's wedding rating coverage on the evening news - both are annoying and only matter to a select group of people who aren't nearly as important as they think they are.

This isn't Europe, or Brazil, or Mexico, or outer-friggin-Mongolia. This is America, and most of us simply don't give a crap about soccer, nor will we, EVER.

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 02:18 PM
For those of you who like and hate soccer, I recommend that you read Chuck Klosterman's "Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs". He has a chapter devoted to why the US sucks at soccer--basically soccer is the sport for people who don't want to be athletic in this country, and I totally agree with him. here it is structured as a game where kids run back and forth and don't have to suffer the humiliation of striking out or missing a free throw with the game on the line. They just kind of blend in and give the appearance that they are getting their required exercise without ever really having to be competitive.
OMFG. Is this what happens when you live a life of the mind?

I guess that's why we ran 500 miles on our own as a team every summer, with the state champion cross country team.
I guess that's why the 4 guys I grew up playing soccer with who didn't play soccer in HS were instead the captains of the football team, two four-year starting safeties, a four-year starting LBer, and the starting RB who I watched run 4 punts for a TD in a game.
I guess that's why my friend from Truman went there on a soccer scholarship, effed up his knee, and ended up with a baseball scolarship and captain of the baseball team the next year.
I guess that's how I ended up squatting 550 and benching 255 by my HS years.

We just didn't want to be athletic.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 02:19 PM
OMFG. Is this what happens when you live a life of the mind?

I guess that's why we ran 500 miles on our own as a team every summer, with the state champion cross country team.
I guess that's why the 4 guys I grew up playing soccer with who didn't play soccer in HS were instead the captains of the football team, two four-year starting safeties, a four-year starting LBer, and the starting RB who I watched run 4 punts for a TD in a game.
I guess that's why my friend from Truman went there on a soccer scholarship, effed up his knee, and ended up with a baseball scolarship and captain of the baseball team the next year.
I guess that's how I ended up squatting 550 and benching 255 by my HS years.

We just didn't want to be athletic.

You are certainly the exception. For every one of you there are many, many more who fit the description in the aforementioned book.
Given a choice between being good at football or soccer 99% of American athletic youth would choose football due to the overbearing social factors. The exact opposite is true elsewhere for the same reasons.

keg in kc
06-16-2006, 02:25 PM
I enjoyed playing soccer when I was growing up, but I just can't watch it on TV.

I generally stay interested about as long as it takes the US to get knocked out.

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 02:31 PM
You are certainly the exception. For every one of you there are many, many more who fit the description in the aforementioned book.
Depends on your level.
The kids who play soccer, but not to be athletic, play in non-competitive 'fun' leagues.
The kids who play baseball, but not to be athletic, either sit on their glove in the outfield picking daisies, or quit and go home and play playstation.
Neither have anything to do with the relative athleticism of those serious about soccer, football, baseball or hockey.
And I'm not 'the exception.' A great majority of people I've run into while playing soccer are 'the exception.'

Spicy McHaggis
06-16-2006, 02:39 PM
For those of you who like and hate soccer, I recommend that you read Chuck Klosterman's "Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs". He has a chapter devoted to why the US sucks at soccer--basically soccer is the sport for people who don't want to be athletic in this country, and I totally agree with him. here it is structured as a game where kids run back and forth and don't have to suffer the humiliation of striking out or missing a free throw with the game on the line. They just kind of blend in and give the appearance that they are getting their required exercise without ever really having to be competitive.

Chuck Klosterman has obviously been partaking of the second word in the title of his book. And then probably then the Cocoa Puffs about an hour later.

keg in kc
06-16-2006, 02:44 PM
It could be worse.

We could be talking about golf.

JBucc
06-16-2006, 02:49 PM
I'm watching a game right now between Mexico and some ANG country. 88 minutes and still no score. It's jut a bunch of guys running around kicking a ball back and forth with an occasional shot and rarely anything exciting. Also there's too many players on the field. I think that may be one of the problems with it being so boring.

keg in kc
06-16-2006, 02:50 PM
Also there's too many players on the field. I think that may be one of the problems with it being so boring.About as boring as Chiefs football in that respect.

keg in kc
06-16-2006, 02:51 PM
You know you really don't want to leave for work when you're posting about soccer.

Lzen
06-16-2006, 03:07 PM
I enjoyed playing soccer when I was growing up, but I just can't watch it on TV.

I generally stay interested about as long as it takes the US to get knocked out.

I don't remember ever playing soccer when I was growing up. But I'm kinda like you. I'll watch it until the US team stinks it up again. Hell, if we could have a team that was really good, maybe we'd get a lot more fans in this country. That said, I rarely watch MLS.
However, given a choice between having to watch:

-baseball
-golf
-tennis
-NASCAR
-soccer

I would watch soccer.

|Zach|
06-16-2006, 03:12 PM
It's jut a bunch of guys running around kicking a ball back and forth
Arnt you the tennis fan?

noa
06-16-2006, 03:19 PM
I'm watching a game right now between Mexico and some ANG country. 88 minutes and still no score. It's jut a bunch of guys running around kicking a ball back and forth with an occasional shot and rarely anything exciting. Also there's too many players on the field. I think that may be one of the problems with it being so boring.


The nice thing, though, is that there are no commercials. In the NFL, you have a commercial every other play. In any given game, there is an average of only 15 minutes of football actually played. Most of the other time is taken with huddles, running the clock down, timeouts, and other various breaks. Obviously, they are completely different sports and it would be impossible to continuously play football for 90 minutes like soccer, but still, I appreciate not having to watch the stupid silver bullett train come through the football stadium for that Coors Light commercial every 5 freakin minutes.

CHIEF4EVER
06-16-2006, 03:35 PM
I am and have always been a Fussball fan. I played in the Army and after in Germany. The reason soccer in the US is so pathetic is due to a few reasons:

1) Marketing. If soccer was marketed properly, it would be huge in this country.

2) Quality of the Club level teams. The US has a helluva lot of talent and it is being wasted on substandard club level teams. This is because the training staff of the MLS teams don't shine a candle to club level trainers in the rest of the soccer world.

3) I hate to say it but....our national trainer doesn't have what it takes. Arena tries his best but he is no Trappatoni or Klinsmann or Van Basten or Scolari etc. The USSF refuses to hire another non-American trainer (this is just my impression) even if it would further our national team.

carlos3652
06-16-2006, 03:38 PM
Ok, I love to post during the chiefs season on this board, (not so much in the offseason - just lurk), but I started posting againg for the WC and probably will disapear (posting wise) until the start of the season... Does that make me a closet fan?

I usually dont post about soccer on this board unless it is a main event such as the world cup, kinda like when someone posts about College basketball through MM and NBA during the finals, or Baseball during the "World" Series... or during Golf Masters...Does that make them closet fans too...?

Or actually it would probably be better to compare it to the Olympics (Summer/Winter) because it only happens every 4 years.... I guess if a competition only happens every 4 years it must be stupid... I guess the 5 billion people watching it on TV have no idea of what sports really to watch... go back in the closet ...


Also, soccer players in the US might not be making a lot of money, but check out this forbes article:

http://www.forbes.com/2004/06/23/04athletesland.html

http://www.forbes.com/2004/03/24/soccerland.html

The Richest Soccer Teams
Forbes staff, 03.24.04, 12:01 PM ET

"Soccer is not the top-watched sport in the United States, but it is everywhere else, meaning it's worth big bucks. Consider this: In our rankings of the world's 20 most valuable teams, England's Manchester United is No. 1, worth $1.2 billion. Compare this with the Washington Redskins football team in the U.S., which we've valued at $952 million."

These articles are two years old... Right now MU is valued at 1.4 Billion. There are many other players that get paid bank to play soccer as well...They all reside in England, Spain, and Italy leagues....


Anyway, I understand the average american can care less about soccer, and I can understand why people have issues when Soccer players are compared to football players or basketball players because they cant fathom the idea of these pussies around the world being as athletic as the super heroes... but they are...

Eh... I'm sorry if I sound harsh or upset, Ill go back in my closet after the world cup (at least on this board) and I cant wait for the season and the era of Edwards to start...

JBucc
06-16-2006, 03:38 PM
Arnt you the tennis fan?Uh....no

Loki
06-16-2006, 03:48 PM
About as boring as Chiefs football in that respect.

heh...
touche.

Loki
06-16-2006, 03:49 PM
The nice thing, though, is that there are no commercials. In the NFL, you have a commercial every other play. In any given game, there is an average of only 15 minutes of football actually played. Most of the other time is taken with huddles, running the clock down, timeouts, and other various breaks. Obviously, they are completely different sports and it would be impossible to continuously play football for 90 minutes like soccer, but still, I appreciate not having to watch the stupid silver bullett train come through the football stadium for that Coors Light commercial every 5 freakin minutes.

no kidding. excellent points.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 03:51 PM
Anyway, I understand the average american can care less about soccer, and I can understand why people have issues when Soccer players are compared to football players or basketball players because they cant fathom the idea of these pussies around the world being as athletic as the super heroes... but they are...

...

Your first step toward propagating that line of thinking would be to remove the picture at the bottom of your posts.

MOhillbilly
06-16-2006, 03:52 PM
i like soccer. i think americans dont watch it because the MLS is a joke and the games suck.
soccer fans in the state watch E.L. or teams south of the border.

soccer is much more fun to play than watch though.

CHIEF4EVER
06-16-2006, 03:53 PM
i like soccer. i think americans dont watch it because the MLS is a joke and the games suck.
soccer fans in the state watch E.L. or teams south of the border.

soccer is much more fun to play than watch though.

True. I am a big ManU fan and a Werder Bremen fan.

carlos3652
06-16-2006, 03:58 PM
Your first step toward propagating that line of thinking would be to remove the picture at the bottom of your posts.

Sorry... As an Argentine Citizen I cant take that off until the end of the world cup...

vailpass
06-16-2006, 03:59 PM
Depends on your level.
The kids who play soccer, but not to be athletic, play in non-competitive 'fun' leagues.
The kids who play baseball, but not to be athletic, either sit on their glove in the outfield picking daisies, or quit and go home and play playstation.
Neither have anything to do with the relative athleticism of those serious about soccer, football, baseball or hockey.
And I'm not 'the exception.' A great majority of people I've run into while playing soccer are 'the exception.'

I'm not sure I've made my point clearly, and I can see you are emotionally invested in this issue. It is not my wish or intention to offend you.

Let me try again:

IMHO there are many reasons an athletic child chooses the sport/s he/she plays.

They include what sport(s) were emphasized/followed in your house as you were growing up, what sports you played with your siblings/friends/neighbors, what your school peers play/watch/talk about, what programs your school offers, to what sports your parents expose you, what sports your local/state/national media cover/follow/highlight/emphasize, what sport offers you the best chance at a scholarship and/or other financial reward, what you like and where you excel.

If you accept these reasons as valid then I posit that because of these factors, in the US the very large majority would end up playing football, basketball, baseball.

For the very same reasons athletic children in some (not all) other parts of the world would choose soccer.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 03:59 PM
Sorry... As an Argentine Citizen I cant take that off until the end of the world cup...

Why? Who is in the picture?

Calcountry
06-16-2006, 04:01 PM
I am equally if not more tired of hearing from the handful of otherwise disenfranchised soccer fans who come out of the closet once every four years to tell us how superior the World Cup is to any other sporting event. How soccer is more difficult, more pure, and more adored world wide than any US sport.
How freaking soccer boys are superior athletes to NFL or NBA stars.

Really? Then explain to me why in a few days you and your soccer talk will dissapear for four more years?
Tired of being ridiculed? Then shut up and enjoy your game in peace without bothering the rest of us while we are watching curling and paintball and womens volleyball.Yeah, it sure does suck when my curling gets pre-emted in favor of World Cup Soccer. :banghead:

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 04:12 PM
I'm not sure I've made my point clearly, and I can see you are emotionally invested in this issue. It is not my wish or intention to offend you.

Let me try again:

IMHO there are many reasons an athletic child chooses the sport/s he/she plays.

They include what sport(s) were emphasized/followed in your house as you were growing up, what sports you played with your siblings/friends/neighbors, what your school peers play/watch/talk about, what programs your school offers, to what sports your parents expose you, what sports your local/state/national media cover/follow/highlight/emphasize, what sport offers you the best chance at a scholarship and/or other financial reward, what you like and where you excel.

If you accept these reasons as valid then I posit that because of these factors, in the US the very large majority would end up playing football, basketball, baseball.

For the very same reasons athletic children in some (not all) other parts of the world would choose soccer.
And my point is that the initial premise [the synopsis of that inane book] was that soccer sucked because some kids play soccer in a non-competitive environment, and baseball/basketball is cool because the players are steeled to competitiveness by facing the prospect of striking out or missing free-throws.
But the fact that soccer can be played in a non-competitive manner and still be fun, so that lots more kids continue to play out of enjoyment, while baseball and basketball shames the sucky kids back to the couch, that has nothing to do with the kids who take any sport seriously, or their ability to achieve athletic excellence.

carlos3652
06-16-2006, 04:12 PM
Why? Who is in the picture?


Diego Maradona.... as he scores the first goal vs England in 1986...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GjmBtubEZSE&search=hand%20of%20god%20goal


But then he made up for it with this gem in the same game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zg3uS4ZBHtM&search=Maradona%20Goal

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:17 PM
Diego Maradona.... as he scores the first goal vs England in 1986...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GjmBtubEZSE&search=hand%20of%20god%20goal


But then he made up for it with this gem in the same game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zg3uS4ZBHtM&search=Maradona%20Goal

I assume that is a star soccer player. This is a good illiustration of the cultural difference: to you that picture is so good it is worth having as part of your sig. To me, and please don't take offense, those guys do NOT look like world class athletes and the pose they are striking looks less than masculine.
I thought you couldn't use your hands in soccer??

Good luck to your team (club? squad?) I hope they win the whole thing.

carlos3652
06-16-2006, 04:17 PM
Heh... another Maradona goal

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9NUqCJs9Jg&search=Maradona%20Goal

carlos3652
06-16-2006, 04:20 PM
I assume that is a star soccer player. This is a good illiustration of the cultural difference: to you that picture is so good it is worth having as part of your sig. To me, and please don't take offense, those guys do NOT look like world class athletes and the pose they are striking looks less than masculine.

Good luck to your team (club? squad?) I hope they win the whole thing.


What I was showing in my sig is that was a big part of the WC in 1986 and England is still pissed off at that goal...

Maradona is by far the best Soccer Player Ever, only Second or on the smae Level as Pele from Brazil (Huge Soccer Star from 1950-1974)

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:20 PM
Heh... another Maradona goal

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9NUqCJs9Jg&search=Maradona%20Goal

That's exciting? You see, this illustrates a big difference. You see that as worth posting and I see it as about on par with an extra point kick in terms of excitement level.
In the NFL kickers are slightly above waterboys and soccer is pretty much all kickers.
I don't think there is much hope for me.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:21 PM
What I was showing in my sig is that was a big part of the WC in 1986 and England is still pissed off at that goal...

Maradona is by far the best Soccer Player Ever, only Second or on the smae Level as Pele from Brazil (Huge Soccer Star from 1950-1974)

Thanks for educating me. I thought Pele was the greatest ever. Then again he is the only soccer player whose name I know other than the guy who married the Spice girl.

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 04:28 PM
That's exciting? You see, this illustrates a big difference. You see that as worth posting and I see it as about on par with an extra point kick in terms of excitement level.
In the NFL kickers are slightly above waterboys and soccer is pretty much all kickers.
I don't think there is much hope for me.
Yeah, and extra point as long as the longest FG, with a destination the same width but much more restricted height, with a defender on the line.
I see it on par with a full court basket scored with Shaq under the net and no rule against goaltending.
Did you see the second clip in carlos' first post with clips?
Was that unathletic?

carlos3652
06-16-2006, 04:36 PM
Here is a few Videos about soccer that might interest you with a few players you might not recognied, but are well known to the world (other than the US)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nc8Yp70yYQ8&search=Best%20Soccer%20Goals

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oNaPoqNiRLg&search=Best%20Soccer%20Players

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:37 PM
Yeah, and extra point as long as the longest FG, with a destination the same width but much more restricted height, with a defender on the line.
I see it on par with a full court basket scored with Shaq under the net and no rule against goaltending.
Did you see the second clip in carlos' first post with clips?
Was that unathletic?

No no no you miss my point. Because Carlos was showing me I knew that it was supposed to be a great athletic feat and I acknowledge that in his eyes and yours it is just that.

But try as I might I don't see that or any other soccer "highlight" as exciting or extraordinary. I see it and think "so what"? I played f-ball, basketball, baseball all through high school and in college for non-varsity teams. I love sports; I acknowledge that soccer is a sport. I just CAN'T get a feeling or an excitement for soccer.

Taco John
06-16-2006, 04:40 PM
Soccor bores me to death.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:40 PM
Did you see the second clip in carlos' first post with clips?
Was that unathletic?

I don't know if it was unathletic I just know it ranks WAY down there for a sports highlight where I would come out of my chair and say "DAMN"! Did you see that!!??

I literally get more enthused/impressed watching close women's softball games.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:41 PM
Soccor bores me to death.

That does not make you a bad person and your Succor emblem is f'ing hilarious.

Taco John
06-16-2006, 04:42 PM
That does not make you a bad person and your Succor emblem is f'ing hilarious.



heh. I know!

Thanks. I made it myself.

CHIEF4EVER
06-16-2006, 04:43 PM
I don't know if it was unathletic I just know it ranks WAY down there for a sports highlight where I would come out of my chair and say "DAMN"! Did you see that!!??

I literally get more enthused/impressed watching close women's softball games.
I suppose that since you have never played, the level of skill necessary to score at all eludes you. Leave out awesome goals like the one Matthaus made on a volley shot from a corner kick while playing for Bayern Muenchen.

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 04:49 PM
No no no you miss my point. Because Carlos was showing me I knew that it was supposed to be a great athletic feat and I acknowledge that in his eyes and yours it is just that.

But try as I might I don't see that or any other soccer "highlight" as exciting or extraordinary. I see it and think "so what"? I played f-ball, basketball, baseball all through high school and in college for non-varsity teams. I love sports; I acknowledge that soccer is a sport. I just CAN'T get a feeling or an excitement for soccer.
At it's base, it's all 'so what.'
So what if Larry Johnson can outrun a bunch of lardasses?
So what if Shaq can stuff a rubber sphere in some hoop against some shorter, smaller dudes?
So what if Barry Bonds can hit a ball with a stick?
So what if Gretzky can skate while smacking a piece of rubber with a stick?

Just because you can't see athleticism, doesn't mean it isn't there.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:50 PM
I suppose that since you have never played, the level of skill necessary to score at all eludes you. Leave out awesome goals like the one Matthaus made on a volley shot from a corner kick while playing for Bayern Muenchen.

That is definetely part of it. Corner kicks don't do it for everybody. To a lot of us there is a very large "BFD" factor.

The other part, as much as soccer-backers don't want to acknowledge it, is that for a lot of us the very nature of th game is boring.

In high school we were forced to play soccer for gym class. After 15 minutes of soccer our teacher (and coach) looked the other way while we played kick ball for the first time since grade school. This continued for the remainder of the soccer unit.

Soccer on it's own was so boring. Kickball integrated base running, scoring, and pitching.

Donger
06-16-2006, 04:52 PM
That is definetely part of it.

The other part, as much as soccer-backers don't want to acknowledge it, is that for a lot of us the very nature of th game is boring.

In high school we were forced to play soccer for gym class. After 15 minutes of soccer our teacher (and coach) looked the other way while we played kick ball for the first time since grade school. This continued for the remainder of the soccer unit.

Soccer on it's own was so boring. Kickball integrated base running, scoring, and pitching.

Heh. A game that is constantly in motion is boring?

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:53 PM
At it's base, it's all 'so what.'
So what if Larry Johnson can outrun a bunch of lardasses?
So what if Shaq can stuff a rubber sphere in some hoop against some shorter, smaller dudes?
So what if Barry Bonds can hit a ball with a stick?
So what if Gretzky can skate while smacking a piece of rubber with a stick?

Just because you can't see athleticism, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Originally Posted by vailpass


"But try as I might I don't see that or any other soccer "highlight" as exciting or extraordinary. I see it and think "so what"? I played f-ball, basketball, baseball all through high school and in college for non-varsity teams. I love sports; I acknowledge that soccer is a sport. I just CAN'T get a feeling or an excitement for soccer."

It is not that I don't acknowledge it is a sport or that some can see great athleticism in it; its that I can't see it.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:54 PM
Heh. A game that is constantly in motion is boring?

Motion means nothing when it is doing nothing. Don't take offense, it's cool if soccer is your thing.

It's just that it looks that way to me (and about 300 million other Americans).

Like I said, once we integrated pitching, base running, scoring into the game it got good.

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 04:55 PM
It is not that I don't acknowledge it is a sport or that some can see great athleticism in it; its that I can't see it.
And you also acknowledge that those who see it might be right and you might be blind? ;)

vailpass
06-16-2006, 04:57 PM
And you also acknowledge that those who see it might be right and you might be blind? ;)

ROFL
Honestly, I'm not saying there is a right and wrong.
I'm saying if it feels good do it but for the life of me I can't see what feels good about it. Wish I could.

Donger
06-16-2006, 04:59 PM
Motion means nothing when it is doing nothing. Don't take offense, it's cool if soccer is your thing.

It's just that it looks that way to me (and about 300 million other Americans).

That's because you don't understand the game. The ball's almost always in motion, offense to defense in seconds. But, if you don't understand/know the fundamentals of the game, yes, I can see how it be considered boring.

It's interesting to me because since I was born and raised in England, player football (soccer) was like playing American sports here (duh). When we came here, I didn't have a f*cking clue how to play ANY of them. Not baseball, basketball, football, hockey, et al. I did learn that I could hit the snot out of a softball early on. The problem was that I kept running to third instead of first.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 05:00 PM
That's because you don't understand the game. The ball's almost always in motion, offense to defense in seconds. But, if you don't understand/know the fundamentals of the game, yes, I can see how it be considered boring.

It's interesting to me because since I was born and raised in England, player football (soccer) was like playing American sports here (duh). When we came here, I didn't have a f*cking clue how to play ANY of them. Not baseball, basketball, football, hockey, et al. I did learn that I could hit the snot out of a softball early on. The problem was that I kept running to third instead of first.

Agreed 100%
I wish I could get into it; I've tried to watch but if you never played it long enough to get into it watching is no way to learn the nuances of any game.

I fear it's too late for me. I'm in my 30s now.

Donger
06-16-2006, 05:02 PM
Agreed 100%
I wish I could get into it; I've tried to watch but if you never played it long enough to get into it watching is no way to learn the nuances of any game.

I fear it's too late for me. I'm in my 30s now.

As am I. I'd rather be left alone in a room with GoChiefs than watch a baseball game.

And, yes, that's a bad thing.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 05:07 PM
As am I. I'd rather be left alone in a room with GoChiefs than watch a baseball game.

And, yes, that's a bad thing.

:eek: ROFL
I know I speak for every hetero, employed male who does not live with his parents on this board when I say if there is ANYTHING I can ever do to help you avoid that fate please don't hesitate to ask.
Really.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 05:08 PM
It appears I may have been wrong about soccer's impact on the US:

Devastated By U.S. World Cup Team's First-Round Loss, Nation Grinds To Halt
June 15, 2006

NEW YORK, LOS ANGELES, and WASHINGTON, DC—With the Dow Jones average down over 600 points, factory productivity in a downward spiral, and workplace attendance down by nearly a third, experts say the U.S. World Cup team's heartbreaking 3-0 defeat at the hands of Czech Republic on Monday has brought life across the soccer-crazed nation to a virtual standstill.


"What happened in Gelsenkirchen has indeed dealt a grievous blow to the morale of the American people," said President Bush, who had promised his constituency a swift and speedy victory in the World Cup this year and whose popularity has taken a 9 percent hit since the U.S. team's loss. "I want the citizens of this great nation, the world's only remaining superpower, to know that I grieve alongside them and urge them to be strong in our hour of darkness, and urge them to return to their jobs and schools despite their heavy hearts."

Mere days ago, the feeling across the nation was one of great joy, eager anticipation, and optimism for the prospects of the most talented American team to ever take the field. It is estimated that over 85 percent of U.S. households were watching the USA–Czech Republic matchup. And going into the game that most Americans have been waiting for, analyzing, and all but living for during the past four years, schools, offices, shopping centers—everything, in fact, except vital services—closed their doors as the game began.

Now, days after the end of penalty time, many of those doors are still closed.

"I take full responsibility for losing the game," said Claudio Reyna, whose shot off the crossbar of the Czech goal as the U.S. trailed 1-0 in the opening half of play has been shown to coincide with a significant bump in the suicide rate, a momentary increase in reports of domestic violence, and a $0.45 increase in the per-gallon price of gasoline. "But we still have games to play in this opening round. I realize that the United States, more than any other country, loves this game. But that is no reason for so many people to cancel their weddings."

The general feeling of hopelessness may be felt across the United States, the nation the rest of the world thinks of as Pelé's adopted home, the land that popularized the term "soccer," and Americans are finding many different ways to voice their despair.

Hundreds of yards of black bunting hung over the head and arms of the Statue of Liberty has yet to be removed by the New York City Parks Department; similar shrouds have appeared on Mount Rushmore, the Golden Gate Bridge, and Hawaii's Pearl Harbor Memorial. Las Vegas casinos are running skeleton staffs at the tables and doubling the size of security shifts, at once worrying over their empty floors and fearing retribution at the hands of World Cup gamblers who bet on the U.S. out of loyalty. And the House of Representatives, which traditionally remains closed throughout the World Cup, called a special session for the specific purpose of introducing a bipartisan bill that would change America's national sport back to baseball.

"This cannot last," said Bruce Arena, coach of the U.S. World Cup team and by extension effectively the second-most powerful man in America, in an address televised simultaneously on every national channel Wednesday night. "We cannot have crops unharvested in the fields, the doors of our churches sealed shut, the Stars and Stripes fixed at half-mast, all because of our dishonorable standard of play. We cannot ask you to forgive our loss to the Czechs, as that must be left to the wisdom of the God of our fathers. We have always been a nation blessed with strength, not only in our love for our soccer teams, but in our love for one another, and we must call on both now if we are to endure these dark days."

At press time, the U.S. team is scheduled to play Italy on Saturday and Ghana the following Thursday, and the National Guard has reported moderate casualties while attempting to contain hooligan activity in the nine largest U.S. cities.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/49524

Donger
06-16-2006, 05:09 PM
:eek: ROFL
I know I speak for every hetero, employed male who does not live with his parents on this board when I say if there is ANYTHING I can ever do to help you avoid that fate please don't hesitate to ask.
Really.

It wouldn't be that bad. We could have Light Sabre duels, right GC?

EDIT - Or is it 'Light Saber'? Darn, I can never remember.

Donger
06-16-2006, 05:10 PM
It appears I may have been wrong about soccer's impact on the US:

Devastated By U.S. World Cup Team's First-Round Loss, Nation Grinds To Halt
June 15, 2006

NEW YORK, LOS ANGELES, and WASHINGTON, DC—With the Dow Jones average down over 600 points, factory productivity in a downward spiral, and workplace attendance down by nearly a third, experts say the U.S. World Cup team's heartbreaking 3-0 defeat at the hands of Czech Republic on Monday has brought life across the soccer-crazed nation to a virtual standstill.


"What happened in Gelsenkirchen has indeed dealt a grievous blow to the morale of the American people," said President Bush, who had promised his constituency a swift and speedy victory in the World Cup this year and whose popularity has taken a 9 percent hit since the U.S. team's loss. "I want the citizens of this great nation, the world's only remaining superpower, to know that I grieve alongside them and urge them to be strong in our hour of darkness, and urge them to return to their jobs and schools despite their heavy hearts."

Mere days ago, the feeling across the nation was one of great joy, eager anticipation, and optimism for the prospects of the most talented American team to ever take the field. It is estimated that over 85 percent of U.S. households were watching the USA–Czech Republic matchup. And going into the game that most Americans have been waiting for, analyzing, and all but living for during the past four years, schools, offices, shopping centers—everything, in fact, except vital services—closed their doors as the game began.

Now, days after the end of penalty time, many of those doors are still closed.

"I take full responsibility for losing the game," said Claudio Reyna, whose shot off the crossbar of the Czech goal as the U.S. trailed 1-0 in the opening half of play has been shown to coincide with a significant bump in the suicide rate, a momentary increase in reports of domestic violence, and a $0.45 increase in the per-gallon price of gasoline. "But we still have games to play in this opening round. I realize that the United States, more than any other country, loves this game. But that is no reason for so many people to cancel their weddings."

The general feeling of hopelessness may be felt across the United States, the nation the rest of the world thinks of as Pelé's adopted home, the land that popularized the term "soccer," and Americans are finding many different ways to voice their despair.

Hundreds of yards of black bunting hung over the head and arms of the Statue of Liberty has yet to be removed by the New York City Parks Department; similar shrouds have appeared on Mount Rushmore, the Golden Gate Bridge, and Hawaii's Pearl Harbor Memorial. Las Vegas casinos are running skeleton staffs at the tables and doubling the size of security shifts, at once worrying over their empty floors and fearing retribution at the hands of World Cup gamblers who bet on the U.S. out of loyalty. And the House of Representatives, which traditionally remains closed throughout the World Cup, called a special session for the specific purpose of introducing a bipartisan bill that would change America's national sport back to baseball.

"This cannot last," said Bruce Arena, coach of the U.S. World Cup team and by extension effectively the second-most powerful man in America, in an address televised simultaneously on every national channel Wednesday night. "We cannot have crops unharvested in the fields, the doors of our churches sealed shut, the Stars and Stripes fixed at half-mast, all because of our dishonorable standard of play. We cannot ask you to forgive our loss to the Czechs, as that must be left to the wisdom of the God of our fathers. We have always been a nation blessed with strength, not only in our love for our soccer teams, but in our love for one another, and we must call on both now if we are to endure these dark days."

At press time, the U.S. team is scheduled to play Italy on Saturday and Ghana the following Thursday, and the National Guard has reported moderate casualties while attempting to contain hooligan activity in the nine largest U.S. cities.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/49524

ROFL

vailpass
06-16-2006, 05:10 PM
It wouldn't be that bad. We could have Light Sabre duels, right GC?
ROFL ROFL You are one sick mofo.

Donger
06-16-2006, 05:11 PM
ROFL ROFL You are one sick mofo.

What? He likes Light Sabres.

JBucc
06-16-2006, 05:15 PM
What? He likes Light Sabres.I bet he does...

http://www.dvd.net.au/movies/s/05627-4.jpg

Loki
06-16-2006, 05:37 PM
Agreed 100%
I wish I could get into it; I've tried to watch but if you never played it long enough to get into it watching is no way to learn the nuances of any game.

I fear it's too late for me. I'm in my 30s now.

i'm glad to see you've come to a decent conclusion. you don't understand it, just like someone from brazil might find American football "stupid as f*ck" because an hour long game takes 4 hours to play with all the f*cking commercial breaks?

the ignorance on nuances of sports goes in both directions.

what still bothers me about your position though is that you still seem to think that only "non-American" or "non-athletic" kids get into soccer. this really irks me to no end. i am American, and i played so many different sports and was VERY good at most of them my poor parents were always having to buy some new piece of equipment or some new uniform or having to take me to practice or games. (god love 'em. thanks mom and dad!!) for the record, i played soccer, baseball, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, skiing, track, golf and karate. all of those sports i played on town, or state level and got so many dang trophies, plaques and ribbons we ran out of room to put them all. but when all was said and done, the only thing i kept going back to play season after season was soccer. i love the game. if my back hadn't been f*cked up for life from my jump injury sustained in the army, i would STILL be playing. alas i can not.

playing soccer does not denote someone with no athletic talent. i would happen to throw out a few hypothetical thoughts for you. if we didn't have sports that we could automatically claim ourselves as "world champions" would we still play them? (did you see the USA get their a$$es kicked in the world baseball classic?) if we had a world (american) football classic and we go hammered in that would we still think we were world champs?
my other hypothetical thought is this. if we didn't have our "American" sports such as baseball or football or basketball and we participated on the world stage in soccer, would not all those atheletes that play those sports be absorbed into soccer? would we not have a better talent pool to pick from for soccer on the world stage?

i would tend to think so.

unfortunately, this is just a hypothetical, and realistically all the money is tied up in our "American" sports. MLS (IMO) is a friggin joke. no cash and mostly ridicule. i admire those players who wish to stay behind and try and promote the sport here at home, but they are fighting a losing battle. if they were smart (again, IMO) they would sign on to some european club and enjoy their careers in a place where their talents are recognized and appreciated.

untill America as a whole decides to release their prejudice to soccer as a "boring game" (due only through ignorance), we will continue to "suck" on the world stage.

JohnnyV13
06-16-2006, 05:45 PM
Then shut up and enjoy your game in peace without bothering the rest of us while we are watching curling and paintball and womens volleyball.


Are you utterly insane???

Who is watching curling and paintball when scantily clad women jumping up and down on the beach is on?

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 05:56 PM
It's like this....

Soccer is like the long, intense, deep, and never ending orgasms that come with the focus and patience of hours and hours of sex.

American football is like the fast action rip your clothes off quickie.

Both are great for different reasons. Simply put, one requires more patience and endurance than the other...

which, if you like that sort of thing, can be fantastic.

noa
06-16-2006, 06:02 PM
I don't really buy any arguments about the merits of one sport vs. another. I really think it has more to do with your culture. If Vailpass grew up in Argentina, he would be a huge soccer fan. If he grew up in India, he would be a huge cricket fan. Since he's from here, he's a huge Chiefs fan. In my experience, those who love watching soccer have either been players in the past or spent time abroad with a culture that adored soccer. If you've never been abroad to understand what being a soccer fan is about, and if you've never played the game yourself, I'm not suprised you that you don't like it. It just doesn't have any significance whatsoever on the nature of the game or soccer's inherent worth. Its simply a matter of perspective.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 06:04 PM
what still bothers me about your position though is that you still seem to think that only "non-American" or "non-athletic" kids get into soccer.

I think nothing of the sort. I think that in America the majority of athletically gifted kids go in to football, basketball, and baseball for reasons previously stated. You make the exact same point below.
playing soccer does not denote someone with no athletic talent.

if we didn't have our "American" sports such as baseball or football or basketball and we participated on the world stage in soccer, would not all those atheletes that play those sports be absorbed into soccer? would we not have a better talent pool to pick from for soccer on the world stage? See what I mean?


untill America as a whole decides to release their prejudice to soccer as a "boring game" (due only through ignorance), we will continue to "suck" on the world stage.
Finding soccer boring and disagreeing with your opinion does not make anyone ignorant. Some who find soccer boring do so becasue they know it through and through and it does not appeal to them. The same is true with football, basketball, baseball, golf, baseball, tennis, NASCAR. It is possible to know a thing and dislike it. Some would say that you can never truly dislike a thing until you know it.

Sorry to hear of your back injury.

Rain Man
06-16-2006, 06:06 PM
I kind of agree with what noa says, but at the same time I'll recognize that I find sumo pretty interesting, and Australian Rules Football, and even cricket. But not soccer. The difference is that those other sports bring a little more action to the table, in my opinion, and they all have the potential of capturing me as a fan. Soccer just doesn't have it. It's too slow.

vailpass
06-16-2006, 06:07 PM
I don't really buy any arguments about the merits of one sport vs. another. I really think it has more to do with your culture. If Vailpass grew up in Argentina, he would be a huge soccer fan. If he grew up in India, he would be a huge cricket fan. Since he's from here, he's a huge Chiefs fan. In my experience, those who love watching soccer have either been players in the past or spent time abroad with a culture that adored soccer. If you've never been abroad to understand what being a soccer fan is about, and if you've never played the game yourself, I'm not suprised you that you don't like it. It just doesn't have any significance whatsoever on the nature of the game or soccer's inherent worth. Its simply a matter of perspective.

:cuss: :mad:
I'm a visitor here NOA. A dyed-in-the wool, stinky when wet Bronco.
Other than that I agree with what you say here.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 06:07 PM
I don't really buy any arguments about the merits of one sport vs. another. I really think it has more to do with your culture. If Vailpass grew up in Argentina, he would be a huge soccer fan. If he grew up in India, he would be a huge cricket fan. Since he's from here, he's a huge Chiefs fan. In my experience, those who love watching soccer have either been players in the past or spent time abroad with a culture that adored soccer. If you've never been abroad to understand what being a soccer fan is about, and if you've never played the game yourself, I'm not suprised you that you don't like it. It just doesn't have any significance whatsoever on the nature of the game or soccer's inherent worth. Its simply a matter of perspective.

I grew up in the US and I adore both sports. I agree that it does have to do with your exposure to other cultures besides American.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 06:08 PM
I kind of agree with what noa says, but at the same time I'll recognize that I find sumo pretty interesting, and Australian Rules Football, and even cricket. But not soccer. The difference is that those other sports bring a little more action to the table, in my opinion, and they all have the potential of capturing me as a fan. Soccer just doesn't have it. It's too slow.

Quickie vs. marathon...

I'm telling you.

There is PLENTY of action in a soccer match. Is it EVERY minute sensory stimulation? Nope. It ebbs and flows and that is the beauty of it.

Rain Man
06-16-2006, 06:09 PM
untill America as a whole decides to release their prejudice to soccer as a "boring game" (due only through ignorance), we will continue to "suck" on the world stage.

See my comment about sumo and ARF and cricket. I realize that everyone has different tastes, but I've given soccer a chance and it just doesn't cut it for me.

noa
06-16-2006, 06:09 PM
:cuss: :mad:
I'm a visitor here NOA. A dyed-in-the wool, stinky when wet Bronco.
Other than that I agree with what you say here.


Sorry vailpass, my bad. Mistook you for one of us.

Rain Man
06-16-2006, 06:10 PM
Quickie vs. marathon...

I'm telling you.

There is PLENTY of action in a soccer match. Is it EVERY minute sensory stimulation? Nope. It ebbs and flows and that is the beauty of it.


The problem with your analogy is that soccer actually exists. :)

vailpass
06-16-2006, 06:11 PM
Sorry vailpass, my bad. Mistook you for one of us.

I appreciate being allowed to post on your board as a guest.

Ultra Peanut
06-16-2006, 06:12 PM
To be honest... I don't really like soccer. But at this point I'm probably more annoyed by all the people making fun of soccer than the people enjoying the World Cup.GEEZE, DUDE! THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT PANSYBALL! DON'T YOU GET IT?!?!?!?!?!

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 06:13 PM
The problem with your analogy is that soccer actually exists. :)

As a fan of both, soccer and football, that is... :D


they each have their level of excitement and intensity and thrill.

Frazod
06-16-2006, 06:15 PM
:cuss: :mad:
I'm a visitor here NOA. A dyed-in-the wool, stinky when wet Bronco.
Other than that I agree with what you say here.

This is actually worse than liking soccer. Soccer isn't evil - it's just boring. :)

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:18 PM
OMFG. Is this what happens when you live a life of the mind?

I guess that's why we ran 500 miles on our own as a team every summer, with the state champion cross country team.
I guess that's why the 4 guys I grew up playing soccer with who didn't play soccer in HS were instead the captains of the football team, two four-year starting safeties, a four-year starting LBer, and the starting RB who I watched run 4 punts for a TD in a game.
I guess that's why my friend from Truman went there on a soccer scholarship, effed up his knee, and ended up with a baseball scolarship and captain of the baseball team the next year.
I guess that's how I ended up squatting 550 and benching 255 by my HS years.

We just didn't want to be athletic.

You also grew up in St. Louis, which is one of the few cities in America where soccer actually has a following. Furthermore, the Truman baseball team is a joke, the Kirksville High School team would have kicked its ass, and thirdly, the assertions of vailpass are spot on.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:23 PM
What I was showing in my sig is that was a big part of the WC in 1986 and England is still pissed off at that goal...

Maradona is by far the best Soccer Player Ever, only Second or on the smae Level as Pele from Brazil (Huge Soccer Star from 1950-1974)

And I just thought he was the biggest cokehead ever. How big did that fat **** get before his gastric bypass?

morphius
06-16-2006, 06:25 PM
I just wonder how many people that consider soccer boring and slow actually watch golf, 'cause if you actually watch golf you have no right to bitch about ANY game/sport...

Hydrae
06-16-2006, 06:31 PM
I think it really comes down to understanding the game, whatever event you are talking about. I enjoy Nascar and baseball just fine but I know them very well and understand the strategies behind things when they happen. With soccer though, I don't know the workings behind the scenes as it were and thus I get bored with it easily.

Frazod
06-16-2006, 06:32 PM
You also grew up in St. Louis, which is one of the few cities in America where soccer actually has a following. Furthermore, the Truman baseball team is a joke, the Kirksville High School team would have kicked its ass, and thirdly, the assertions of vailpass are spot on.

Are you from Kirksville?

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:33 PM
Depends on your level.
The kids who play soccer, but not to be athletic, play in non-competitive 'fun' leagues.
The kids who play baseball, but not to be athletic, either sit on their glove in the outfield picking daisies, or quit and go home and play playstation.
Neither have anything to do with the relative athleticism of those serious about soccer, football, baseball or hockey.
And I'm not 'the exception.' A great majority of people I've run into while playing soccer are 'the exception.'

I'm sure you saw that clip of the Czech guy hitting a header in for a goal early against the US this week. If you watch that, you'll see the US defender, supposedly one of the best soccer players in this motherf*cking country, get about 8 inches off the ground. You'll also see the third czech goal occur when a guy runs past the entire American defense when it looks like he has concrete overshoes on. Compare that to a 6'2 guy who is 250 pounds and runs a 4.4. 40 and has a 38" vertical and then tell me who is the better athlete. The day that I see Americans with even half the athleticism of a Larry Johnson or a TO on the national soccer team is the day we win the world cup.

There's a reason why I don't watch the WNBA, they may be the best athletes in their field, but they aren't very athletic in comparison to players in the NBA. Those who espouse soccer because of its inherent athleticism are blind to the realities of the sport in this country.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:33 PM
Are you from Kirksville?

No, but I went to Truman. Why??

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:34 PM
I just wonder how many people that consider soccer boring and slow actually watch golf, 'cause if you actually watch golf you have no right to bitch about ANY game/sport...

Golf actually requires hand eye coordination.

Frazod
06-16-2006, 06:36 PM
No, but I went to Truman. Why??

I lived there for a couple of years - graduated from KHS in '83. Briefly went to Truman back when it was still NMSU.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:38 PM
I lived there for a couple of years - graduated from KHS in '83. Briefly went to Truman back when it was still NMSU.

Ahh. I have great respect for the cricker race ;)...and I stand firmly behind the statement of KHS baseball raking the Truman baseball team, saying your friend became capt. of the Truman baseball team (as BL did) is like saying your friend won the 100 meters at the special olympics.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 06:38 PM
I'm sure you saw that clip of the Czech guy hitting a header in for a goal early against the US this week. If you watch that, you'll see the US defender, supposedly one of the best soccer players in this motherf*cking country, get about 8 inches off the ground. You'll also see the third czech goal occur when a guy runs past the entire American defense when it looks like he has concrete overshoes on. Compare that to a 6'2 guy who is 250 pounds and runs a 4.4. 40 and has a 38" vertical and then tell me who is the better athlete. The day that I see Americans with even half the athleticism of a Larry Johnson or a TO on the national soccer team is the day we win the world cup.

There's a reason why I don't watch the WNBA, they may be the best athletes in their field, but they aren't very athletic in comparison to players in the NBA. Those who espouse soccer because of its inherent athleticism are blind to the realities of the sport in this country.

The day that Larry Johnson or TO can stay on the field and maintain at least 75% effectiveness an entire game without a sub is the day I'll think they are as great athletes as WC soccer players.

Frazod
06-16-2006, 06:40 PM
Ahh. I have great respect for the cricker race ;)...and I stand firmly behind the statement of KHS baseball raking the Truman baseball team, saying your friend became capt. of the Truman baseball team (as BL did) is like saying your friend won the 100 meters at the special olympics.

Hey, I only lived there for two years - not long enough to get crickerized. ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 06:42 PM
The day that Larry Johnson or TO can stay on the field and maintain at least 75% effectiveness an entire game without a sub is the day I'll think they are as great athletes as WC soccer players.

The day a world cup soccer player takes a hit 1/100 as hard as LJ or TO is the day I have respect for their "athleticism". And give me a break, LJ or TO could easily jog around the field not getting hit for 45 minutes at a time without getting winded.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 06:53 PM
The day a world cup soccer player takes a hit 1/100 as hard as LJ or TO is the day I have respect for their "athleticism". And give me a break, LJ or TO could easily jog around the field not getting hit for 45 minutes at a time without getting winded.

Uh, a soccer match is 90 minutes so LJ would have jogged for only HALF of what a soccer player does in an entire game...

noa
06-16-2006, 07:02 PM
The day a world cup soccer player takes a hit 1/100 as hard as LJ or TO is the day I have respect for their "athleticism". And give me a break, LJ or TO could easily jog around the field not getting hit for 45 minutes at a time without getting winded.

Your comparison is ridiculous. I don't even feel the need to explain why...

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:07 PM
Uh, a soccer match is 90 minutes so LJ would have jogged for only HALF of what a soccer player does in an entire game...

Exactly, and then he gets a 20 minute break. It's not 90 minutes of continuous running, it's staggered. I'm tired of how soccer proponents claim that they are supreme athletes. They aren't. Not even close.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:11 PM
Your comparison is ridiculous. I don't even feel the need to explain why...

You can't say that toughness is not a component of athleticism. Playing through pain is what separates great athletes from the merely good. Watching some candyass flop like he was gutshot by a 12 gauge from a sliding tackle is an insult to competitive athletics.

Chieficus
06-16-2006, 07:19 PM
Exactly, and then he gets a 20 minute break. It's not 90 minutes of continuous running, it's staggered. I'm tired of how soccer proponents claim that they are supreme athletes. They aren't. Not even close.

As a soccer proponent (I play soccer, though just recreationally anymore; I like watching soccer, and would watch more of the world cup if not for school), I wouldn't say that soccer players are "supreme athletes" I'd call them more "pepperoni and green pepper"... (I also think I've been having a craving for pizza lately).

For your comparison sake--american football and soccer are like apples and oranges in trying to compare athletic nature. Soccer players don't need the same strenght and bulk as football players; but they do need more stanima and agility (dribbling a ball with your feet through a crowd is a bit more complex than lowering your shoulder and plowing through). Neither is the superior athlete.

(oh, BTW--go and play soccer sometime... it might give you a better perspective...)

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:21 PM
As a soccer proponent (I play soccer, though just recreationally anymore; I like watching soccer, and would watch more of the world cup if not for school), I wouldn't say that soccer players are "supreme athletes" I'd call them more "pepperoni and green pepper"... (I also think I've been having a craving for pizza lately).

For your comparison sake--american football and soccer are like apples and oranges in trying to compare athletic nature. Soccer players don't need the same strenght and bulk as football players; but they do need more stanima and agility (dribbling a ball with your feet through a crowd is a bit more complex than lowering your shoulder and plowing through). Neither is the superior athlete.

(oh, BTW--go and play soccer sometime... it might give you a better perspective...)

Agility:

The next time Ronaldbunghole does this, I'll convert.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:21 PM
Exactly, and then he gets a 20 minute break. It's not 90 minutes of continuous running, it's staggered. I'm tired of how soccer proponents claim that they are supreme athletes. They aren't. Not even close.

They are supreme athletes. I think any athlete who plays at a professional team level must be a supreme athletes. However, with soccer the player must condition himself to play an entire game without a subsitution or break. Only basketball would have a similiar scenario and they tend to be extremely well conditioned athletes as well. They are two sports where bulk actually impedes performance whereas in football that is not the case. You will never see a 6'5'' 300+ lb soccer or basketball player.

Chieficus
06-16-2006, 07:24 PM
Agility:

The next time Ronaldbunghole does this, I'll convert.

Oh please... that is the "human joystick" and those were the "denver broncos"...

What Dante did was like the little speedy kid punkin' tubby-bubba on the playground...

:jester:

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:24 PM
They are supreme athletes. I think any athlete who plays at a professional team level must be a supreme athletes. However, with soccer the player must condition himself to play an entire game without a subsitution or break. Only basketball would have a similiar scenario and they tend to be extremely well conditioned athletes as well. They are two sports where bulk actually impede performance whereas in football that is not the case. You will never see a 6'5'' 300+ lb soccer or basketball player.

And no matter how good their conditioning, hockey players never play more than 30 of a 60 minute game. That doesn't mean that hockey is the supreme test of athletic ability.

Soccer tests endurance, footwork, and speed to a smaller extent

Football tests strength, endurance, speed, agility, hand eye coordination, footwork, and toughness.

There is no comparison between the two.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:25 PM
Oh please... that is the "human joystick" and those were the "denver broncos"...

What Dante did was like the little speedy kid punkin' tubby-bubba on the playground...

:jester:

And yet, despite the fact that soccer is the preferred game of almost 6 billion people, I've yet to see a human joystick in the WC.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:27 PM
And no matter how good their conditioning, hockey players never play more than 30 of a 60 minute game. That doesn't mean that hockey is the supreme test of athletic ability.

Soccer tests endurance, footwork, and speed to a smaller extent

Football tests strength, endurance, speed, agility, hand eye coordination, footwork, and toughness.

There is no comparison between the two.

Speed to a smaller extent? Everything you said about football is applicable to soccer. The only difference is that soccer players do it with a lower BMI. :harumph:

CHIEF4EVER
06-16-2006, 07:28 PM
And yet, despite the fact that soccer is the preferred game of almost 6 billion people, I've yet to see a human joystick in the WC.

You need to watch some clips of the Brazilians. Ronaldo (before his fat ass stage), ronaldinho, etc...

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:29 PM
Speed to a smaller extent? Everything you said about football is applicable to soccer. The only difference is that soccer players do it with a lower BMI. :harumph:


The hand ball kind of negates that point, doesn't it?? Toughness?? Excuse me while I head to the shitter, I don't want to laugh so hard as to soil myself.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:30 PM
The hand ball kind of negates that point, doesn't it?? Toughness?? Excuse me while I head to the shitter, I don't want to laugh so hard as to soil myself.

Yeah, those 30 lbs of pads and helmet really adds up to tough... :rolleyes:

Chieficus
06-16-2006, 07:31 PM
Yeah, those 30 lbs of pads and helmet really adds up to tough... :rolleyes:

Doggoneit, that settles it!

Rugby is the sport of supreme champions... one day, toothless aussies will rule the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:fire:

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:33 PM
Yeah, those 30 lbs of pads and helmet really adds up to tough... :rolleyes:

You cannot be serious. That hit that Leslie O'Neal put on Jeff George in the first game of the 98 season would have killed half the players in the World Cup, and George is a pussy by football standards. Those 30 pounds are there so they don't kill each other, not the other way around. Bang heads with someone running at full speed sometime and get back to me on how wearing a helmet makes you a pussy.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:33 PM
Doggoneit, that settles it!

Rugby is the sport of supreme champions... one day, toothless aussies will rule the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:fire:

Rugby is a nice happy medium... :p

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:34 PM
You cannot be serious. That hit that Leslie O'Neal put on Jeff George in the first game of the 98 season would have killed half the players in the World Cup, and George is a pussy by football standards. Those 30 pounds are there so they don't kill each other, not the other way around. Bang heads with someone running at full speed sometime and get back to me on how wearing a helmet makes you a pussy.

No, they bang harder BECAUSE the pads are there. Without the pads they wouldn't dare...

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:34 PM
Doggoneit, that settles it!

Rugby is the sport of supreme champions... one day, toothless aussies will rule the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:fire:

My vote has always been for Middleweight and under boxing. Supremely conditioned athletes who must maintain their energy while getting punched hundreds of times in the face and stomach.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-16-2006, 07:35 PM
No, they bang harder BECAUSE the pads are there. Without the pads they wouldn't dare...

Because there was never a movement to ban football in the early 20th century due to deaths in the course of play before the advent of helmets....give me a f*cking break, and get your story straight.

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:39 PM
Because there was never a movement to ban football in the early 20th century due to deaths in the course of play before the advent of helmets....give me a f*cking break, and get your story straight.

And how many football players have croaked on the field vs. soccer players? More football players. Why, is that? Not because they are tougher or better conditioned athletes.

Valiant
06-16-2006, 07:49 PM
Okay, if you say so. I'm just a guest but have been around for a while.
I've seen the occasional random soccer comment by the 4-7 posters here who are soccer people but nothing near what I would define as "all the time" soccer conversations.

At any rate you are either deflecting or missing my point: soccer talk/media mention in America happens in the US for a couple of weeks once every four years.
After that it is returned to those Americans who enjoy the sport amongst themselves.

Why do you see this as argumentative or derogatory?


I would say maybe a good year, there has been lots of US soccer talk at the end of last year till now and it will go until a month or two after the US gets knocked out...

The World Cup is just like the Olympics in the US, you want to root for your team because of Nationalistic pride over other countries.. Most people could give a rats ass about 90% of the Olympics they just want their team to do well...



As for anyone saying that soccer has better athletes then other US sports no ****ing way... They have some really great athletes, but they do not compare to some athletic studs in football and basketball..

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:50 PM
I would say maybe a good year, there has been lots of US soccer talk at the end of last year till now and it will go until a month or two after the US gets knocked out...

The World Cup is just like the Olympics in the US, you want to root for your team because of Nationalistic pride over other countries.. Most people could give a rats ass about 90% of the Olympics they just want their team to do well...



As for anyone saying that soccer has better athletes then other US sports no ****ing way... They have some really great athletes, but they do not compare to some athletic studs in football and basketball..

A month. Boy are you really positive or clueless. The US could get knocked out TOMORROW.

And there is very little nationalistic pride when it come to our nation's team and the WC inspite of the fact we went in as the 5th ranked for the entire tourney.

Cochise
06-16-2006, 07:51 PM
In terms of conditioning, I have no doubt that soccer has that kind of 'best athlete'. But in terms of all-around, I think football has to get the nod.

Valiant
06-16-2006, 07:53 PM
No, they bang harder BECAUSE the pads are there. Without the pads they wouldn't dare...


Have you ever played football????

If the answer is no, stfu...

There is a bonecrusher league here in KC, tackle football only requirement is you wear a mouth piece... YOu want to see some vicious tackles then go watch.. If you play football you try to kill the ****er pads or no pads...

Hell go watch a backyard football game agianst HS kids... The pads are there for protection of broken bones and lacerations not so you can hit harder...

Hard hitters could care less about pads...

Valiant
06-16-2006, 07:55 PM
In terms of conditioning, I have no doubt that soccer has that kind of 'best athlete'. But in terms of all-around, I think football has to get the nod.


That would go to marathon and triathlon athletes, not soccer players... A soccer game might last 90 minutes but they do not even sprint half of that.. You have to be a great athlete to play at that level but you are not one of the best athletes..

Valiant
06-16-2006, 07:57 PM
A month. Boy are you really positive or clueless. The US could get knocked out TOMORROW.

And there is very little nationalistic pride when it come to our nation's team and the WC inspite of the fact we went in as the 5th ranked for the entire tourney.


Do you know how to read you dumb twat??? There will be talk on tv stations and espn a good month after the US gets knocked out, not that the US will still be playing...

As for the pride statement it might be the fact that you hate the US... Get back in the DC forum and talk about terrorism...

memyselfI
06-16-2006, 07:58 PM
Have you ever played football????

If the answer is no, stfu...

There is a bonecrusher league here in KC, tackle football only requirement is you wear a mouth piece... YOu want to see some vicious tackles then go watch.. If you play football you try to kill the ****er pads or no pads...

Hell go watch a backyard football game agianst HS kids... The pads are there for protection of broken bones and lacerations not so you can hit harder...

Hard hitters could care less about pads...

Ok, you win. Football athletes are the greatest because they must have some kind of violent barbarian machismo to play football... :rolleyes:

Valiant
06-16-2006, 08:00 PM
Ok, you win. Football athletes are the greatest because they must have some kind of violent barbarian machismo to play football... :rolleyes:


What is with the deflections you dumb bitch... You were talking about football players hitting harder because of pads.. I refute your agrument, you then make up some other argument about violent machismo and athletes...
Stay with the ****ing discussion...

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 08:14 PM
Agility:

The next time Ronaldbunghole does this, I'll convert.
1. You obviously didn't watch the clips. There were numerous plays on par with that, and they were guiding an object with their feet at the same time.
2. Dante didn't have to worry about someone from the other team picking up the ball and running the other way for a score, and having to chase them 120 yards the other direction. He got a commercial break and a blow afterwards.

Oh, and I grew up in KC, not St. Louis.

Also, serious question. Have you ever had anything but contempt for anyone who disagreed with you about anything?

Baby Lee
06-16-2006, 08:21 PM
All I can give is my own experience, and that was that baseball players played baseball, football players played football, and basketball players played basketball. And they didn't look much good when they changed games, or tried to play soccer. But the soccer players I grew up with, if they went out for football, they were starters. If they played basketball, they were standouts. Same for hockey.
Baseball was a different story, because it's a game of precisely practiced skills [pitching, hitting]. Crossover athletes had to devote a good bit of time to excell there.

Loki
06-16-2006, 08:32 PM
...


i'm not necessarily say YOU are "ignorant" meaning "stupid" or anything derogatory. i am saying ignorant in the context that you do not understand the nuances of the game of soccer, hence you find it boring... just like someone right off the boat from brazil wouldn't understand the nuances of baseball or American football and may find those particular sports stupid or boring to them.

that is the context that i am using the word ignorant.

* * *

thanks for the thoughts. i count myself lucky that i can walk. when they scraped me off the DZ they told me i'd never walk normally again because my back was broken and my knees were f*cked up. i told them to **** off and got myself walking again.
years later, i have to understand what they were telling me. my back still pops out if i do anything strenuous (like running/sports) and my knees are constantly giving me trouble. really sucks when simple things like running are a painful challenge/reminder.
oh well... given the chance, i'd do the same things again. ;)
once it's in your blood... it's there to stay.

Loki
06-16-2006, 08:37 PM
See my comment about sumo and ARF and cricket. I realize that everyone has different tastes, but I've given soccer a chance and it just doesn't cut it for me.

that's it in a nutshell. there is no need for the "but". can't please all the people all the time.

the only thing that irritates me is the misconception that soccer is a "pussy" sport. it is not. that's all.

Loki
06-16-2006, 08:47 PM
And no matter how good their conditioning, hockey players never play more than 30 of a 60 minute game. That doesn't mean that hockey is the supreme test of athletic ability.

Soccer tests endurance, footwork, and speed to a smaller extent

Football tests strength, endurance, speed, agility, hand eye coordination, footwork, and toughness.

There is no comparison between the two.

a tiger could kick a lion's ass...
or
and elephant would f*ck a grizzly bear up...
or
a camel spider could waste a scorpion...

dude, you passion for football is duly noted.
comparisons of two completely unrelated sports and their subsequent atheletes/athetic skillsets is retarded.

Donger
06-16-2006, 08:51 PM
I'm tired of how soccer proponents claim that they are supreme athletes. They aren't. Not even close.

No, they are not. Professional cyclists are.

Loki
06-16-2006, 09:17 PM
No, they are not. Professional cyclists are.

(meathead) a professional cyclist could never take a full on hit from a 300lb safety (/meathead)

you're stirring the pot donger...

besides, everyone knows the greatest atheletes are double-dutch masters... :p

Donger
06-16-2006, 09:27 PM
(meathead) a professional cyclist could never take a full on hit from a 300lb safety (/meathead)

Of couse not. He's too smart and too quick to do that!

you're stirring the pot donger...

Never. Not me.

besides, everyone knows the greatest atheletes are double-dutch masters... :p

I'll admit, I have no idea what that means. But, if I truly had to answer who the greatest atheletes are? Those guys that do that 10 different track and field thingy. Decathletes?

Loki
06-16-2006, 09:48 PM
I'll admit, I have no idea what that means. But, if I truly had to answer who the greatest atheletes are? Those guys that do that 10 different track and field thingy. Decathletes?
double dutch is jumprope with 2 jumpropes going simultaneously.
http://www.nycitysnaps.com/Images/StyleDoublDutch1.jpg


decatheletes eh? and i would have said muay thai kickboxers
(waiting for someone to tell me UFC fighters... *groan* :rolleyes: )

Donger
06-16-2006, 09:51 PM
double dutch is jumprope with 2 jumpropes going simultaneously.

Two simultaneously? Shoot, I can't handle one with a ten second interval.

BTW, that gal has nice tits. Nothing to do with anything, other than that.

Loki
06-16-2006, 09:52 PM
Two simultaneously? Shoot, I can't handle one with a ten second interval.

BTW, that gal has nice tits. Nothing to do with anything, other than that.

hey, i tried to tell you about double dutch masters... :shrug:


;)

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:00 AM
NSFW: http://youtube.com/watch?v=EWfkmCWqhvs&search=Greatest%20goals

Women Streaker Scoring a goal

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:06 AM
This video has a lot of comparable Human Joystick abilities...

http://youtube.com/watch?search=Greatest+goals&v=1LWrfFH4ofM

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:22 AM
Oh... you can see Ronaldino in this one...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QNO9svJdKJQ&search=Greatest%20soccer%20tricks

This would be like an NBA star doing AND1 shite

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-17-2006, 12:23 AM
1. You obviously didn't watch the clips. There were numerous plays on par with that, and they were guiding an object with their feet at the same time.
2. Dante didn't have to worry about someone from the other team picking up the ball and running the other way for a score, and having to chase them 120 yards the other direction. He got a commercial break and a blow afterwards.

Oh, and I grew up in KC, not St. Louis.

Also, serious question. Have you ever had anything but contempt for anyone who disagreed with you about anything?

1. I just watched the Maradona clip. I just watched the "greatest of all time" score a goal by essentially running in a straight line with a couple of slight jukes along the way. I've seen far more acrobatic moves and jukes in a hockey game.

2. Your comparison here is ridiculous. What if he fumbles?? Then his ass is running full speed in the other direction, and he has to worry about some 300 pounder laying a Warren Sapp type cheapshot on his ass. He would then have to get up from said hit and return a kickoff while running up to 100 yards avoiding even more hits while 11 people (instead of about 7 in soccer) try to get him down.

because as we all know strikers are running balls out the whole game, they never just sit there on their laurels while the action is going on farther down the field :rolleyes:

Regarding your "serious" question. The pot wonders the color of the kettle, since without having read the book (as your initial post shows) you claim to know the 'entire' synopsis, when I told you it was just a singular chapter, call it inane (without having read it, obviously), and yet you question the dismissiveness of my retort?? ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-17-2006, 12:28 AM
Oh... you can see Ronaldino in this one...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QNO9svJdKJQ&search=Greatest%20soccer%20tricks

This would be like an NBA star doing AND1 shite

Nice footwork, but so is a good hackysack move.

There's also a great clip of two teenage kids hitting various basketball trick shots on collegehumor, and no one is advocating their induction into Springfield, Mass just yet.

Watch the clip of Jordan's move into the lane against the Lakers in the 1991 Finals again some time and get back to me.

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:29 AM
Soccer Bloopers

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vaFm47lsL2g&feature=Favorites&page=1&t=t&f=b

Ok im done...

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:37 AM
Nice footwork, but so is a good hackysack move.

There's also a great clip of two teenage kids hitting various basketball trick shots on collegehumor, and no one is advocating their induction into Springfield, Mass just yet.

Watch the clip of Jordan's move into the lane against the Lakers in the 1991 Finals again some time and get back to me.

I am not denying Jordan wasnt amazing, im just saying, the guys that are defending and goalkeeping these goals get paid millions of dollars to do so...

And just because their is 11 guys on the field in football doesnt mean that one player must run 100 yards and miss all 11, If I remeber correctly I remember LJ running through everyone but only really having to elude 2-4 players for his long ass runs for TDs...

You cant compare apples to oranges man... If you think Amrican Football is the greates sport of all time than thats your opinion and you are entilted to it...

I just cant beliee that you can say that these soccer athletes are not athletic because they dont take on 300 lb linemen, why isnt Rugby then considered super athletic... they dont even where pads...

Thats like saying basketball players arent good athletes because they dont get hit hard... oh yea theres fouls if you get touched... kinda like soccer...

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-17-2006, 12:43 AM
I am not denying Jordan wasnt amazing, im just saying, the guys that are defending and goalkeeping these goals get paid millions of dollars to do so...

And just because their is 11 guys on the field in football doesnt mean that one player must run 100 yards and miss all 11, If I remeber correctly I remember LJ running through everyone but only really having to elude 2-4 players for his long ass runs for TDs...

You cant compare apples to oranges man... If you think Amrican Football is the greates sport of all time than thats your opinion and you are entilted to it...

I just cant beliee that you can say that these soccer athletes are not athletic because they dont take on 300 lb linemen, why isnt Rugby then considered super athletic... they dont even where pads...

Thats like saying basketball players arent good athletes because they dont get hit hard... oh yea theres fouls if you get touched... kinda like soccer...

Basketball is a physical game, it's a game of contact. I don't deny the athleticism of great soccer players, but they are not as athletic, and the game is not as true a test of athleticism as is Football, or basketball for that matter. Tiger woods makes millions, no one here claims he is the greatest athlete in teh world.

I would also like to make one other point: perhaps the reason why soccer is so important on a world stage is because people in dirt poor countries can play it if one person has a ball. It's great that it *can* be played so cheaply, but I have a stinking suspicion that this reason is also highly indicative of its popularity on a world stage. Would people have fuller access to other sports (as has happened in Europe with basketball, for one), you might see a great shift away from the popularity of the 'beautiful game'

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:52 AM
Basketball is a physical game, it's a game of contact. I don't deny the athleticism of great soccer players, but they are not as athletic, and the game is not as true a test of athleticism as is Football, or basketball for that matter. Tiger woods makes millions, no one here claims he is the greatest athlete in teh world.

I would also like to make one other point: perhaps the reason why soccer is so important on a world stage is because people in dirt poor countries can play it if one person has a ball. It's great that it *can* be played so cheaply, but I have a stinking suspicion that this reason is also highly indicative of its popularity on a world stage. Would people have fuller access to other sports (as has happened in Europe with basketball, for one), you might see a great shift away from the popularity of the 'beautiful game'

Argentina has various sports in which are youth can play in... for one (went I went to HS in Argentina (back in 1996) I played soccer, basketball, handball, volleyball.

When I came to the US to finish HS I played Baseball, Basketball and Soccer...

Basketball in Argentina is a serious sport man... We hae a lot of players in the NBA and Europe for that matter as well...

When you say poor... I understand you might think that eeryone in the US is Rich, and everyone else in the world is poor... but you got to be kidding me... Europe's economy is stronger than the US economy... and yes, they have their poverty, but so does the US... I guess in the ghetto's they dont play soccer here... so we dont have any good talent... but we hae good rappers... lol

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 12:57 AM
Hamas, I am going to bed, but I just wanted to end with:

There is no right and wrong... you make valid points and you have a good argument, I just hope you see my opinion the same way...

I believe Soccer, Basketball, and Football players are very athletic, and cannot be compared 1 on 1 in regards to specific agilities because each game is different and require different strengths...

Kinda like saying Cornerbacks have a certain agility, that Linemen dont have... thats in the same sport... I just dont think you can compare apple to oranges when you go outside the sport...

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-17-2006, 01:43 AM
Argentina has various sports in which are youth can play in... for one (went I went to HS in Argentina (back in 1996) I played soccer, basketball, handball, volleyball.

When I came to the US to finish HS I played Baseball, Basketball and Soccer...

Basketball in Argentina is a serious sport man... We hae a lot of players in the NBA and Europe for that matter as well...

When you say poor... I understand you might think that eeryone in the US is Rich, and everyone else in the world is poor... but you got to be kidding me... Europe's economy is stronger than the US economy... and yes, they have their poverty, but so does the US... I guess in the ghetto's they dont play soccer here... so we dont have any good talent... but we hae good rappers... lol

I think you missed my point here. Basketball is popular in Europe (as witnessed by their players) b/c they have more money...soccer is more popular in developing countries b/c it is cheap and accessible, and since most of the world lives in conditions of poverty, it would hold that a game that is cheap and easy to play would be more popular..

CHIEF4EVER
06-17-2006, 03:23 AM
I think you missed my point here. Basketball is popular in Europe (as witnessed by their players) b/c they have more money...soccer is more popular in developing countries b/c it is cheap and accessible, and since most of the world lives in conditions of poverty, it would hold that a game that is cheap and easy to play would be more popular..

Dude, basketball is an afterthought in Europe. Even Hockey is more popular. Fussball (soccer) is king and Europeans are certainly not third world countries living in poverty. No offense but you are wrong on each and every point in the above quoted post, sorry.

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-17-2006, 07:13 AM
Dude, basketball is an afterthought in Europe. Even Hockey is more popular. Fussball (soccer) is king and Europeans are certainly not third world countries living in poverty. No offense but you are wrong on each and every point in the above quoted post, sorry.

My god....I never said that European nations were poor. For the third time...reread the post for chrissakes.

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 08:12 AM
I think you missed my point here. Basketball is popular in Europe (as witnessed by their players) b/c they have more money...soccer is more popular in developing countries b/c it is cheap and accessible, and since most of the world lives in conditions of poverty, it would hold that a game that is cheap and easy to play would be more popular..

I see your point, and I understand that... I just think that you generalize the poverty point... Where I can see your point in Africa about Poverty Stricken nations, I dont see your point with a lot of the European nations, some South American Nations and Some of the Asian Nations...

The Most Powerful Nations in Soccer: England, Portugal, Spain, Germany, France, Holland, Argentina, Brazil have maybe more slums than the US, (then maybe not) but I dont think they are 3rd world countries that the only sport they can afford is Soccer...

The US can be a power in soccer some day, they just need to train better and get the youth movement going...

It doesnt help if there dad tells them its a pussy sport...

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-17-2006, 08:20 AM
I never said it was a pussy sport. Did I question the toughness of its players?? Yes, but not that does not connotate that all of the players are empirically pussies.

carlos3652
06-17-2006, 08:45 AM
I never said it was a pussy sport. Did I question the toughness of its players?? Yes, but not that does not connotate that all of the players are empirically pussies.

I didnt say you said it, but thats the generalization I made... :)

penguinz
06-17-2006, 09:05 AM
What I was showing in my sig is that was a big part of the WC in 1986 and England is still pissed off at that goal...

Maradona is by far the best Soccer Player Ever, only Second or on the smae Level as Pele from Brazil (Huge Soccer Star from 1950-1974)Too bad he could not stay away from the drugs.

CHIEF4EVER
06-17-2006, 09:11 AM
Wow, just had my awesome nacho dip with Tostitos. Here is the recipe if y'all wanna try it:

Robert's World Cup Dip

1 lb Hamburger
1 can mild Rotella
16 ounces Velveeta
1 bag Tostitos

Brown hamburger and drain. cut cheese into 1" cubes. Add cubes of cheese to hamburger and microwave on high until cheese is melted. Add Rotella and mix well with the meat and cheese. Heat up chips and enjoy.

penguinz
06-17-2006, 09:27 AM
Agility:

The next time Ronaldbunghole does this, I'll convert.
The only reason Dante does not get tackled their is because he is a midget and the defenders could not find him. :)

penguinz
06-17-2006, 09:29 AM
"human joystick" Who came up with this stupid nickname?

Ultra Peanut
06-17-2006, 09:37 AM
Too bad he could not stay away from the drugs.And the Hot Pockets.