PDA

View Full Version : First time going to a casino next Wednesday


SNR
06-19-2006, 10:39 PM
First let me say, I have been totally against gambling my entire life. Until for some reason, my wife convinced me to go to the Indian casino an hour away and play some blackjack and hold'em. She said it's "easy money"

I'm fairly good at hold'em. Pretty inexperienced at blackjack, but how hard can it ****ing be, right?

I'm just asking you wiley old casino pros out there what you usually do when you go to one, and what I should do to have the most fun without losing my entire fortune

Moooo
06-19-2006, 10:40 PM
First let me say, I have been totally against gambling my entire life. Until for some reason, my wife convinced me to go to the Indian casino an hour away and play some blackjack and hold'em. She said it's "easy money"

I'm fairly good at hold'em. Pretty inexperienced at blackjack, but how hard can it ****ing be, right?

I'm just asking you wiley old casino pros out there what you usually do when you go to one, and what I should do to have the most fun without losing my entire fortune

If you're going to try and win money... you're going for the wrong reason... Go and have fun playing the cards, and if you win...yay!

Moooo

John_Locke
06-19-2006, 10:41 PM
First let me say, I have been totally against gambling my entire life. Until for some reason, my wife convinced me to go to the Indian casino an hour away and play some blackjack and hold'em. She said it's "easy money"

I'm fairly good at hold'em. Pretty inexperienced at blackjack, but how hard can it ****ing be, right?

I'm just asking you wiley old casino pros out there what you usually do when you go to one, and what I should do to have the most fun without losing my entire fortune


I like craps

the wife likes roulette

Halfcan
06-19-2006, 10:42 PM
Go into the casino, take half the money you were going to gamble with. Go into the bathroom, take a dump, wipe your azz with it. Buy a case of beer on the way home and get drunk. You will get a good buzz and still have money left.

JBucc
06-19-2006, 10:42 PM
I don't know how to crap. But I'm pretty good at blackjack. That's what I would do at a casino probably.

greg63
06-19-2006, 10:43 PM
Play with someone else's money. I know very few people who beat the house; but then again I am not an experienced casino gambler. :nosmilie:

KcMizzou
06-19-2006, 10:43 PM
If you're going to try and win money... you're going for the wrong reason...

MooooNo doubt. I always go expecting to lose $60 or so, and chalk it up to the cost of a decent night of entertainment. If I happen to win, it's just gravy.

I only go like once or twice a year, though.

John_Locke
06-19-2006, 10:46 PM
taking the wife to Harrah's in Topeka in July

Halfcan
06-19-2006, 10:50 PM
If you don't know how to play BJ, stick to the slots. You will end up costing other players money besides losing all yours.

Moooo
06-19-2006, 10:55 PM
If you don't know how to play BJ, stick to the slots. You will end up costing other players money besides losing all yours.

I'm not the best at this, and I won't play without someone else there to help me out, but I was always under the impression that if you were the first player, you won't really screw anyone up.

And I'm sorry, but if you aren't counting cards (even rudimentary methods of it), it's pure luck what you're going to get.

Moooo

Mecca
06-19-2006, 10:58 PM
If you don't know how to play BJ, stick to the slots. You will end up costing other players money besides losing all yours.

I don't think I wanna know about your BJ habits pal......what you do in your time is your business.

Miles
06-19-2006, 10:59 PM
Don't go in with the "its easy money" attitude. Set a limit on yourself and keep ordering drinks (helps offset what you more than likely lose). If you treat it as spending money on entertainment rather than trying to make money its a lot more fun and you reduce the chances of running to the ATM.

alnorth
06-19-2006, 11:02 PM
If you don't know how to play BJ, stick to the slots. You will end up costing other players money besides losing all yours.

As an avid BJ player, I dont buy this arguement. When a newbie at the table makes a bad play that leads to a dealer 21 or something, EVERYONE remembers it and curses his name. When a newbie makes a bad play that leads to a dealer bust, no one seems to remember at all.

As far as I'm concerned I couldnt care less what you do, your just as likely to help me as hurt me. I'm focused on keeping an accurate count without letting the casino know I'm doing it.

To SNR: you may want to visit www.wizardofodds.com (http://www.wizardofodds.com). The guy who runs the site is a retired Actuary who now devotes his life to mathematically analysing all casino games.

For the casino newbie, there's no such thing as easy money unless you are a freakin pro at the poker room.

If you want entertainment with the goal of losing as little money as possible, your best bet is blackjack playing basic strategy, or video poker with proper basic strategy. A standard BJ game with basic strategy will on average net you a loss of 0.5% to 1% per hand, which is about as good as it gets in the casino. However the variance is high. (ie the average may be slightly under breakeven, but the realistic low end is busting very fast, and the high end is doubling your stack very fast, which leads to players thinking they are smart, increasing their bets, and probably busting soon after.)

If you just want to have fun, print out a blackjack strategy card (the casinos will even let you have the card at the table since they know they still have an edge) or memorise whatever you can and just bet table minimum all night, while drinking whatever the casino will give you.

Halfcan
06-19-2006, 11:02 PM
I'm not the best at this, and I won't play without someone else there to help me out, but I was always under the impression that if you were the first player, you won't really screw anyone up.

And I'm sorry, but if you aren't counting cards (even rudimentary methods of it), it's pure luck what you're going to get.

Moooo

Card counting??? Yeah maybe if your Rain man. Seven decks, plus a cut card using a third that will never be dealt. And yes if you make a bad play at any position it can mess everyone up-trust me I have dealt hundreds of thousands of BJ hands. I mean Black Jack.

Halfcan
06-19-2006, 11:05 PM
Don't go in with the "its easy money" attitude. Set a limit on yourself and keep ordering drinks (helps offset what you more than likely lose). If you treat it as spending money on entertainment rather than trying to make money its a lot more fun and you reduce the chances of running to the ATM.

Drinking is the casinos best friend.

Big Dick Jones
06-19-2006, 11:08 PM
As an avid BJ player, I dont buy this arguement. When a newbie at the table makes a bad play that leads to a dealer 21 or something, EVERYONE remembers it and curses his name. When a newbie makes a bad play that leads to a dealer bust, no one seems to remember at all.

As far as I'm concerned I couldnt care less what you do, your just as likely to help me as hurt me. I'm focused on keeping an accurate count without letting the casino know I'm doing it.

To SNR: you may want to visit www.wizardofodds.com (http://www.wizardofodds.com). The guy who runs the site is a retired Actuary who now devotes his life to mathematically analysing all casino games.

For the casino newbie, there's no such thing as easy money unless you are a freakin pro at the poker room.

If you want entertainment with the goal of losing as little money as possible, your best bet is blackjack playing basic strategy, or video poker with proper basic strategy. A standard BJ game with basic strategy will on average net you a loss of 0.5% to 1% per hand, which is about as good as it gets in the casino. However the variance is high. (ie the average may be slightly under breakeven, but the realistic low end is busting very fast, and the high end is doubling your stack very fast, which leads to players thinking they are smart, increasing their bets, and probably busting soon after.)

If you just want to have fun, print out a blackjack strategy card (the casinos will even let you have the card at the table since they knoew they still have an edge) or memorise whatever you can and just bet table minimum all night, while drinking whatever the casino will give you.
That is absolutely the most astute assessment of the game of BJ I have ever read. The "players" that claim other players cause them to lose know absolutely nothing about the game.

Miles
06-19-2006, 11:09 PM
Drinking is the casinos best friend.

Defintly true. Though I go in with a set limit and if I lose $75 and drink $40 worth and have a good time it all works out. I may be an oddity but the only time I have done stupid shit when drunk is when I am up.

Cochise
06-19-2006, 11:16 PM
Just don't expect to win - those lavish casinos don't exist because people win.

RedDread
06-19-2006, 11:17 PM
I work at Ameristar and I've been going through courses on basic strategy for most of the games.

The rules we play are as follows

6 Deck
Dealer hits on Soft 17
Double down always allowed
Split up to 2x, Double after split allowed
No Surrender

If you want a general idea of how to play just put all that into the calc here and see what you come up with

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

Each casino has different rules and it's good to consult the dealer if it's your first time there. The biggest varience seems to be how many times you can Split, at least in the KC area casinos.

Mecca
06-19-2006, 11:18 PM
I live by Ameristar.....I just go to pick up chicks.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-19-2006, 11:23 PM
I live by Ameristar.....I just go to pick up chicks.



Are they pornstars? Sorry man, I'm fuggin with ya, I couldn't resist. ;)

alnorth
06-19-2006, 11:24 PM
I work at Ameristar and I've been going through courses on basic strategy for most of the games.

The rules we play are as follows

6 Deck
Dealer hits on Soft 17
Double down always allowed
Split up to 2x, Double after split allowed
No Surrender

If you want a general idea of how to play just put all that into the calc here and see what you come up with

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

Each casino has different rules and it's good to consult the dealer if it's your first time there. The biggest varience seems to be how many times you can Split, at least in the KC area casinos.

Resplit Aces allowed? I assume so. Double down anything is good, if I see a game that only doubles 9, 10, & 11, I leave.

Prairie Meadows in Des Moines has decent rules too, they split up to 3x. Sadly, I would have to drive all the way to the freakin Quad Cities to find a game with the Surrender option plus all of the above, probably because there's more competition there. The gas isnt worth the extra tiny edge I get.

TinyEvel
06-19-2006, 11:24 PM
Ah, the indian casino...the only time you hope the chiefs lose!!!

I have no idea how to play poker, but I'm a whiz at BJ (Black Jack not the other BJ, thank God....Receiving, maybe, but I digress..)

So, quick rule of thumb: assume every card coming off the deck is a ten (there are 4 of 13 cards in the deck which are "tens" - three face cards and the actual 10)
So, you want to hold back and not bust and let the dealer get that "buster"
So, the first thing you do is watch what the dealer has. If he has a 6 or less, you do not hit anything 12 or over, you don't want to bust before he does. (assuming every unseen card is a ten (odds, folks, odds) he has a ten in the hole and will draw another ten. Bust-o if he has a six or less

If he has a seven or above, you should hit until you get 17 or more.

DOUBLE DOWN: This is where you are assuming the dealer is going to bust, and the first card you're going to draw is gonna put you in the 17 to 21 territory.
(normally only if your first two cards total 10 or 11 and the dealer has less than a 10 showing, and especially if he has a 2 thru 6 showing)
you put out an amount equal to your existing bet, set it NEXT TO (not on top of) your existing bet.
THE CATCH: you only get one card. THen you cross your fingers, look to the Lord and wait for the outcome.

SPLITTING: THis is where, if you get two identical cards (i.e. two eights, or two aces) you can put out an amount equal to your bet (not on top of, but a couple inches to the side of your existing bet) and the dealer "splits" your hand, putting one of the cards next to your new stack, and these are the first cards in each of two new hands. He draws a second card for each and you are now playing two separate hands.

I don't split aces or eights against anything less than an 8, and maybe split 7's or 6's against a 4 or 5 (these are the two cards showing which are most likely to end in a bust by the dealer)

Heck, go on Google or buy a blackjack book. THey'll tel you all the details, you can even go on the web and download a nifty grid (cheat sheet) telling you what to do based on what your cards are and what the dealer has.

Oh yeah, one more thing: I've played BJ for years, and finally learned that this "rule of thumb" playing gets you nowhere unless coupled with a BETTING STRATEGY.

What I do is: If I win a hand, I put half the winnings on the stack and pull the other half back for myself.
If I lose, I put a new stack out that is half of what I had before.
That way, if I'm winning, I am increasing bets, and if I am losing, I am pulling back.
THIS WORKS (FOR ME)!
I spent all my 20's adding to my stack as I lost (to "recoup" my losses) and blew entire paychecks, going up to the room drunk and broke.

I do the "win: stack, lose: pull" thing and have won $700 each of my last four times in Vegas.

***Your individual results may vary, not actual statement of winning there are no guarantees of profit, Strippers may take all your winnings, and two drink minimum per lapdance......

Mecca
06-19-2006, 11:26 PM
Are they pornstars? Sorry man, I'm fuggin with ya, I couldn't resist. ;)

When I'm in that mood I just go the extra 5 minutes down to NKC and hang out at that porn studio they got there.......

alnorth
06-19-2006, 11:31 PM
I don't split aces or eights against anything less than an 8, and maybe split 7's or 6's against a 4 or 5 (these are the two cards showing which are most likely to end in a bust by the dealer)

If you "assume that all cards are tens", then by splitting aces you only need one of those tens to break even.

As far as not splitting 8's, you like your 16 that much?

Big Dick Jones
06-19-2006, 11:34 PM
Ah, the indian casino...the only time you hope the chiefs lose!!!

I have no idea how to play poker, but I'm a whiz at BJ (Black Jack not the other BJ, thank God....Receiving, maybe, but I digress..)

So, quick rule of thumb: assume every card coming off the deck is a ten (there are 4 of 13 cards in the deck which are "tens" - three face cards and the actual 10)
So, you want to hold back and not bust and let the dealer get that "buster"
So, the first thing you do is watch what the dealer has. If he has a 6 or less, you do not hit anything 12 or over, you don't want to bust before he does. (assuming every unseen card is a ten (odds, folks, odds) he has a ten in the hole and will draw another ten. Bust-o if he has a six or less

If he has a seven or above, you should hit until you get 17 or more.

DOUBLE DOWN: This is where you are assuming the dealer is going to bust, and the first card you're going to draw is gonna put you in the 17 to 21 territory.
(normally only if your first two cards total 10 or 11 and the dealer has less than a 10 showing, and especially if he has a 2 thru 6 showing)
you put out an amount equal to your existing bet, set it NEXT TO (not on top of) your existing bet.
THE CATCH: you only get one card. THen you cross your fingers, look to the Lord and wait for the outcome.

SPLITTING: THis is where, if you get two identical cards (i.e. two eights, or two aces) you can put out an amount equal to your bet (not on top of, but a couple inches to the side of your existing bet) and the dealer "splits" your hand, putting one of the cards next to your new stack, and these are the first cards in each of two new hands. He draws a second card for each and you are now playing two separate hands.

I don't split aces or eights against anything less than an 8, and maybe split 7's or 6's against a 4 or 5 (these are the two cards showing which are most likely to end in a bust by the dealer)

Heck, go on Google or buy a blackjack book. THey'll tel you all the details, you can even go on the web and download a nifty grid (cheat sheet) telling you what to do based on what your cards are and what the dealer has.

Oh yeah, one more thing: I've played BJ for years, and finally learned that this "rule of thumb" playing gets you nowhere unless coupled with a BETTING STRATEGY.

What I do is: If I win a hand, I put half the winnings on the stack and pull the other half back for myself.
If I lose, I put a new stack out that is half of what I had before.
That way, if I'm winning, I am increasing bets, and if I am losing, I am pulling back.
THIS WORKS (FOR ME)!
I spent all my 20's adding to my stack as I lost (to "recoup" my losses) and blew entire paychecks, going up to the room drunk and broke.

I do the "win: stack, lose: pull" thing and have won $700 each of my last four times in Vegas.

***Your individual results may vary, not actual statement of winning there are no guarantees of profit, Strippers may take all your winnings, and two drink minimum per lapdance......
You're a "whiz" at Black Jack huh? Go to any casino and they will show you what a "whiz" you are. They give free lessons.

Miles
06-19-2006, 11:36 PM
If you "assume that all cards are tens", then by splitting aces you only need one of those tens to break even.

As far as not splitting 8's, you like your 16 that much?

Yeah I can think of no reason not to spit aces.

Bwana
06-19-2006, 11:38 PM
Good times. I was in Vegas all last week and came out of there with net $340 up.

alnorth
06-19-2006, 11:39 PM
More for SNR:

Hand signals, the dealer will instruct you if you dont do them right, but if youd like to at least make people think your not totally clueless, then be ready to do them. It doesnt matter if you scream "stand" at the top of your lungs, the security staff watching every move from you and the dealer cant hear you. The dealer has to have a hand signal or he'd get in trouble. Feel free to say what you want along with the signal if you want to reduce the chance of the dealer doing something you dont want.

Hit: tap the table. (NEVER touch your cards for any reason, thats a big no-no. exception: a few casinos deal face down, but thats rare)

Stand: wave your hand over the table, out where the camera can see it.

Double down: Place an amount of chips equal to your bet next to your stack and hold up 1 finger. (You can double down for less too, but that makes no sense. It is either correct to double for all or nothing, no in-between)

Split: Place two fingers on the table in an upside-down "V" shape. You may want to say "split them" to make sure the dealer doesnt screw up by hitting you instead.

Good luck

Halfcan
06-19-2006, 11:44 PM
Yeah I can think of no reason not to spit aces.

the only draw back is you get to hit once on aces.


You BJ whizes just crack me up. I used to kick cardcounters asses and take their rent money. I had grown men cry at my table. I took 23 grand off a guy in 30 minutes-he was playing three hands-table max of $500. The pit bosses called me the "Closer" my tray would be so full I couldn't get the lid on it.

Mecca
06-19-2006, 11:46 PM
the only draw back is you get to hit once on aces.


You BJ whizes just crack me up. I used to kick cardcounters asses and take their rent money. I had grown men cry at my table. I took 23 grand off a guy in 30 minutes-he was playing three hands-table max of $500. The pit bosses called me the "Closer" my tray would be so full I couldn't get the lid on it.

BJ whizes.....that sounds dirty yet disgusting at the same time.

Halfcan
06-19-2006, 11:48 PM
BJ whizes.....that sounds dirty yet disgusting at the same time.

How about BJcrapslots

Mecca
06-19-2006, 11:49 PM
I'm sure there's a porn out there somewhere named that.

Miles
06-19-2006, 11:49 PM
the only draw back is you get to hit once on aces.


You BJ whizes just crack me up. I used to kick cardcounters asses and take their rent money. I had grown men cry at my table. I took 23 grand off a guy in 30 minutes-he was playing three hands-table max of $500. The pit bosses called me the "Closer" my tray would be so full I couldn't get the lid on it.

True about the hit once thing. Guess I would rather take the chances at having a winning hand rather than a 16. Depends on what the dealer is showing and the amount of money on the hand.

Defintly agree that there is not a real solution to beating the game at all. Sure there are decent strategies to play the game but they are hadly a set way to make money. Someone may have nice gains over a small sample size but the mechanism of the casino will always win.

alnorth
06-19-2006, 11:50 PM
the only draw back is you get to hit once on aces.


You BJ whizes just crack me up. I used to kick cardcounters asses and take their rent money. I had grown men cry at my table. I took 23 grand off a guy in 30 minutes-he was playing three hands-table max of $500. The pit bosses called me the "Closer" my tray would be so full I couldn't get the lid on it.

My guess is that another believer in some variant of the Martingale flamed out at your table. It boggles my mind how many people think progressive betting works.

Oh sure it works for little money 9 weeks in a row, but on that 10th weekend... OUCH. You dont lose 9 hands in a row very often, but it does happen. Martingale players believe that losing 9 in a row is impossible.

Most card-counters realise that variance is our mortal enemy, and will bet well below the bankroll, even if the true count gets stupid like +4 with 2 decks left or something.

TinyEvel
06-19-2006, 11:59 PM
If you "assume that all cards are tens", then by splitting aces you only need one of those tens to break even.

As far as not splitting 8's, you like your 16 that much?

I only NOT split them against 9 or 10 showing. two 18's do no good against a 19 or 20 (you know, assuming the "every card's a ten" thing)

I wrote it backwards. I should have said I OLNY split 8's against dealer showing 8 or less.

Blame the Bud(weiser)

CoMoChief
06-20-2006, 12:00 AM
Go to the ATM and withdraw the amount of money you wanna gamble with and then when u get to the casino take half of that money and leave it in your car. I do that so if I lose I go back to my car and psych myself out thinking I didnt do so bad so that Im still fairly happy the rest of the week.

Frazod
06-20-2006, 12:01 AM
My advice:

1. STAY SOBER. A drunk and his money are parted quickly. There's a reason they give you free drinks.

2. Stick with black jack and/or craps; those are the games that give you the best odds of beating the house. I personally play black jack because I don't understand all the nuances of craps. Avoid slot machines. There's a reason there are 20 of them for every table game.

3. Play smart.

4. Bring a set amount of cash and pretend like you've already lost it when you start playing. That way if you lose your ass you won't be so pissed.

5. If you're ahead - remember, no matter how much you've won, if you play long enough, you will lose it all. If you're up a good amount of money, know when the quit. It's always nice to walk away a winner.

I've never played poker at a casino - I haven't been to a casino since this annoying Texas hold 'em fad hit.

TinyEvel
06-20-2006, 12:02 AM
You're a "whiz" at Black Jack huh? Go to any casino and they will show you what a "whiz" you are. They give free lessons.

Oh, sorry, I meant I take a lot of "Whizzes" while playing Black Jack.
Beer goes in, beer goes out.

But I have played about three times a year for fifteen years. Learned the hard way. Paid for a few of those gold tiles on the sidewalks.

TinyEvel
06-20-2006, 12:04 AM
More for SNR:



Split: Place two fingers on the table in an upside-down "V" shape.
Good luck

In England, this is "flipping off" the security camera. I approve of this move.

You can also place two fingers over your mouth in the "V" shape, lick your tongue through them while loking at female table partners, or even better, the cocktail waitress.

Now that's "Gambling"

maybe one in a hundred times you'll win.

Halfcan
06-20-2006, 12:09 AM
My guess is that another believer in some variant of the Martingale flamed out at your table. It boggles my mind how many people think progressive betting works.

Oh sure it works for little money 9 weeks in a row, but on that 10th weekend... OUCH. You dont lose 9 hands in a row very often, but it does happen. Martingale players believe that losing 9 in a row is impossible.

Most card-counters realise that variance is our mortal enemy, and will bet well below the bankroll, even if the true count gets stupid like +4 with 2 decks left or something.

Actually he was just a drunk on a good roll that thought the cash would never end. The guy started with $200 and was at $23,500 when he came over to my table. I even told him, I NEVER pay. It was sad. People triple their money and don't know when to quit. That is why I got out of the business-it does weigh on you after awhile, taking folks life savings. The worst were the Korean gangs that threatened to cut my throat after I took thousands from them.

I enjoyed dealing to educated players like you Al-you realize the odds and use all resources to maximize every advantage when the count is in your favor. Nice job-a true Pro!!

alnorth
06-20-2006, 12:12 AM
I only NOT split them against 9 or 10 showing. two 18's do no good against a 19 or 20 (you know, assuming the "every card's a ten" thing)

I wrote it backwards. I should have said I OLNY split 8's against dealer showing 8 or less.

Blame the Bud(weiser)

OK, I gotcha now. Actually, I dont hate this move, 88 vs 9 or 10 is marginal either way.

The mathematics say split them, because if he doesnt have that 10 your in decent shape. However, playing the "correct" way in this situation increases the variance which everyone hates.

The average expected win with your strategy in these 2 situations is a little smaller than splitting, but your strategy also has less variance. (ie, my method of splitting 8's against everything if theres no surrender available means I may have a better average, but I win big and lose big more often than if I play the 16 and hope for the best.)

TinyEvel
06-20-2006, 12:18 AM
I hear ya. I mostly go with my gut pending the current situation. If a dealer has been smoking me, I'l hold back (in fact, I shouldn't even still be at that table). if I've been doing well, he's been busting, I might go for it.
hindsight's always 20/20.
Golden rule: never play with more than you can afford to lose.
My wife and I used to go to Vegas about 3x per year before we had kids. We'd spend most of our time in the casinos, gambling and drinking, we'd always come back tired s hell and having dropped enough coin to pay for a trip to Hawaii. Finally, we started going and spending most of our time at the pool, spa, and shopping/shows/restaurants and stuff. It's much more fun.

alnorth
06-20-2006, 12:24 AM
Actually he was just a drunk on a good roll that thought the cash would never end. The guy started with $200 and was at $23,500 when he came over to my table. I even told him, I NEVER pay. It was sad. People triple their money and don't know when to quit. That is why I got out of the business-it does weigh on you after awhile, taking folks life savings. The worst were the Korean gangs that threatened to cut my throat after I took thousands from them.

I enjoyed dealing to educated players like you Al-you realize the odds and use all resources to maximize every advantage when the count is in your favor. Nice job-a true Pro!!

Hah, good stories.

One thing I want to mention on card-counting, it is not some mystical voodoo that will cause you to win a bunch. At best, if you are one of the best counters in the world at a table with good rules, you might swing the odds from -0.5% to ... oh, maybe +1.5%. Big whoop, the variance is still huge in this game. All it means is that I walk away having lost every single penny I came in with a little bit less often and I double my stack a little bit more often. The academic thought that your slowly coming ahead in the long run doesnt help if the rent you threw away yesterday is due.

So, card counting is only a small edge that you may only realise over a lifetime, with bad nights where you bust out still happening here and there, and... its hard. If card counting was easy everyone would do it, I had to practice, and those dealers pitch cards pretty damned fast. Screwing the count up is worse than not doing it, because it may cause you to bet more when you shouldnt. It is mentally tiring after a while, because you also need to appear to be a normal friendly gambler who can carry on a conversation while constantly keeping up with the arithmetic. If you are dead silent staring at the cards, your eyes tracking them steadily as they are dealt, and your bet occasionally going up without warning 6x near the end of a shoe a couple times an hour, you better be losing or youll irritate the pit bosses after a few weeks.

I do it as a hobby and a challenge to myself that I can do it, I wont get rich off of it. If it makes me lose less money and causes the entertainment to be mostly free more often, I'm satisfied with that.

TinyEvel
06-20-2006, 12:29 AM
I could never card count. I don't want the game to be a job. I like talking to people at the table and having a good time.
I make my money the easy way (yeah right!), writing TV ads for TGI Fridays. I gamble with peoples' arteries.

alnorth
06-20-2006, 12:41 AM
I could never card count. I don't want the game to be a job. I like talking to people at the table and having a good time.
I make my money the easy way (yeah right!), writing TV ads for TGI Fridays. I gamble with peoples' arteries.

I dont think you can make a living playing BJ unless you work for a team in Vegas. The variance will make a lone player starve sooner or later, unless you have a gigantic bankroll, in which case you dont need to play for a living anyway.

If I have a night where I'm ahead, I'll pack it in and relax, letting the house take some of it back and start tipping the dealer and waitresses. (btw if someone wants to "make money" playing BJ they pretty much cant tip, ever. Giving up a few dollars per hour destroys the edge. My goal is just free entertainment in the long run, whatever my counting earns me I probably end up throwing it all away and then some to the dealer and waitresses.)

Question for players and dealers: if you decide to tip a dollar or two for the dealer (or your the dealer getting the tip) do you prefer to tip directly, or place a dealer bet?

Moooo
06-20-2006, 12:48 AM
I know every time I go and lose my money, the dealer ALWAYS says, "Welcome to blackjack, kid." I've been to that casino like 5 times, too! I guess its cause I look like I'm 14, they always just assume its my first time playing.

So after you lose your money, if the dealer says that to you, do Moooo a favor and punch him. If its a her, call her a derrogatory name for me... please? LOL JK! :)

Moooo

Halfcan
06-20-2006, 01:18 AM
Tip directly to the dealer so they can drop it. the house always wins the other way.,

jspchief
06-20-2006, 07:55 AM
You BJ whizes just crack me up. I used to kick cardcounters asses and take their rent money. I had grown men cry at my table. I took 23 grand off a guy in 30 minutes-he was playing three hands-table max of $500. The pit bosses called me the "Closer" my tray would be so full I couldn't get the lid on it.

Wow, you must have been really skilled at dealing people cards. :rolleyes:

The only thing worse than someone who thinks they are a blackjack wizard is a dealer who thinks they have the slightest control over the hands they deal.

Saulbadguy
06-20-2006, 07:59 AM
The key to winning at Blackjack is the betting system, IMO. The only reason to use the "strategy" is to not piss people off at your table.

alnorth
06-20-2006, 08:16 AM
The key to winning at Blackjack is the betting system, IMO. The only reason to use the "strategy" is to not piss people off at your table.

Let me guess. If you lose, double your bet, and keep doubling because youll eventually win. After you win, go back to your small bet, etc and your guaranteed to leave the casino every night with a small profit.

I wish you luck, do that every weekend and let me know where your at in 2 years.

alnorth
06-20-2006, 08:25 AM
To the OP or another casino newbie: lets say you dont like video poker or Blackjack, and want to play something else, but would still like to avoid the sucker games. There's a couple more games worthy of your attention with only a slightly worse edge than Blackjack.

Craps: Place a very small bet on the Don't Pass line, lay the odds as high as you can go (usually double your dont pass bet), and put maybe a couple bets on the points. I usually bet on 6 and 8.

Most people bet on the Pass line for some weird reason, even though the casino edge is a little smaller on Don't pass.

Ignore all other bets, everything else on the table is a sucker wager. Keep your bets small and enjoy the atmosphere because there is no way to beat craps, just a strategy to minimise your losses.

Pai Gow poker:

Most casinos have started to offer this game, and I like it. The house edge is worse than craps, BJ, or video poker (about -3%) but the pace of the game is very slow and the variance is small. So, even though your steadily losing money, your doing it very slowly. If you want a game that gives you the best chance of not leaving broke (but also not leaving a winner), this is it. Go to the web site I linked previously to learn the basic Pai Gow strategy.

Do not place a fortune bet, you will hate yourself if the table hits a jackpot, but if you start placing fortune bets than you are basically playing a slot machine and will lose money very fast.

sd4chiefs
06-20-2006, 09:46 AM
The first time I played BJ in Kansas City the casinos had just opened. I knew how to play but everyone else at the table did not have a clue. Everyone was splitting tens. You never split tens. Why would you split tens when you have 20. I wanted to tell everyone to stop it but they were winning. I kept looking at the dealer and shaking my head and he just smiled and gave me a wink.

Iowanian
06-20-2006, 10:11 AM
They don't build fancy casinos because anyone wins "easy money".

I have some simple rules, that I manage to follow MOST of the time.

1. I never drink when I gamble(more than a little)
2. Don't take in what you're not prepared to lose
3. Play for entertainment, its a bonus if you win(if you're a new or non-regular gambler)

It takes a long time to win on the pokertable, at least for me...It seems like I'm usually holding even until it gets late, and then I hammer the drunks and old guys that get tired and foolish.

I like to play blackjack, always bet Min on first hand out of chute, I stack half of a winning hand. Its a very tough strategy at a full table....I prefer to play with 2-3 other Good players.(not splitting 10s, hitting soft hands et al)

My goal is to win $300 from my 50-100 buyin at Blackjack.

My strategy that seems to be the best in the long run.....If and when I win, I take $40-$50 to the $5 slot room and hit the button 8-10 times. I either lose someone else's money swinging for the fence, or hit something good.

I'm up about 4k this year, on a handful of trips.

Final tip....Anyone that tells you they are an expert, is full of shit.

58-4ever
06-20-2006, 10:18 AM
I play hold 'em at a local indian casino. It's pretty easy to take old men's money because most of them get pretty drunk and easy to read. Some nights you'll have some really good players, and some nights the cards just don't come. Overall, I'm probably up about 500 bucks in the 3 months I've gone.

I like hold 'em b/c the only money the casino gets is the rake, which is usually a dollar in a 1-2 No Limit game. That's reasonable at a table with 10 players.

58-4ever
06-20-2006, 10:20 AM
BTW, playing BJ in Oklahoma is the BIGGEST ripoff in the history of gambling. They take 50 cents just to play the hand???? WTF? So, if you play 100 hands, (which isn't that hard to do) you've paid the casino 50 bucks, regardless of how much you've won or lost.

Dartgod
06-20-2006, 10:25 AM
Anyone that tells you they are an expert, is full of shit.
Listen to this man. If anyone knows about being full of shit, its Iowanian.

sd4chiefs
06-20-2006, 11:46 AM
I play hold 'em at a local indian casino. It's pretty easy to take old men's money because most of them get pretty drunk and easy to read. Some nights you'll have some really good players, and some nights the cards just don't come. Overall, I'm probably up about 500 bucks in the 3 months I've gone.

I like hold 'em b/c the only money the casino gets is the rake, which is usually a dollar in a 1-2 No Limit game. That's reasonable at a table with 10 players.

My son has been going to the indian casino's and doing the same thing. He is up about $1500. If you know what you are doing hold 'em is the way to go. I need to learn how to play.

Iowanian
06-20-2006, 12:06 PM
Please come and learn Holdem at a table I'm sitting....bring 4-5 of your friends who also like to learn...and drink heavily.

sd4chiefs
06-20-2006, 12:21 PM
Please come and learn Holdem at a table I'm sitting....bring 4-5 of your friends who also like to learn...and drink heavily.

Can we play no limit?

Saulbadguy
06-20-2006, 12:38 PM
Let me guess. If you lose, double your bet, and keep doubling because youll eventually win. After you win, go back to your small bet, etc and your guaranteed to leave the casino every night with a small profit.

I wish you luck, do that every weekend and let me know where your at in 2 years.
I don't have a betting system. I lose money most of the time.

But I treat gambling as a source of entertainment, not a way to make money.

The Red Sea
06-20-2006, 01:30 PM
My thoughts are as basic as it gets..

Just set a limit dont plan on actually winning if you Do, Great if you dont then enjoy the rest of your trip to the casino..surely theres a couple of other things to do there..the fine woman..glance at the prositutes just for fun/laughs at each entrance & Exit.
Eat some Decent food par take in a few drinks more than your normal.
Youll have a good old time.

I Should mention one other thing Never Gamble in D.C. its dangerous.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9527/bushabramoffcasino1ah.jpg

SNR
06-20-2006, 11:31 PM
First off, thanks to everyone who gave me advice.

I'm not putting much money on blackjack until I do go out and get a book to read up on the game. But I will have fun with poker while I'm there. I've played in one or two tournaments and done fairly well, and the people I'll be facing will likely not be nearly as good as those others. I've come to realize that conservative play gets you pretty far, and since it's not in tournament style, there's no pressure to play hands you normally wouldn't to try and knock out a guy.

jspchief
06-21-2006, 08:11 AM
First off, thanks to everyone who gave me advice.

I'm not putting much money on blackjack until I do go out and get a book to read up on the game. But I will have fun with poker while I'm there. I've played in one or two tournaments and done fairly well, and the people I'll be facing will likely not be nearly as good as those others. I've come to realize that conservative play gets you pretty far, and since it's not in tournament style, there's no pressure to play hands you normally wouldn't to try and knock out a guy.If you're playing hold em, it will be a little different from no limit games you've played in the past. Since the betting limits are restricted, it's a lot tougher to buy pots. Be prepared for people to hang around chasing straights and flushes.

SNR
06-29-2006, 03:20 AM
I ended up making $20 for the night. Not bad. At one point I was up $100 at the poker tables, then lost a lot of it gradually. I broke even at blackjack.

Wow, I saw a lot of people lose money FAST. I learned something today, and that's if you have 4 or 5 million bucks lying around and want a safe and efficient way to invest it, just build a ****ing casino. I saw first-hand what makes them so successful when I saw tons and tons of peope losing money and depositing more so they could lose it again.

Will I ever go back? Possibly, but not for awhile

DaKCMan AP
06-29-2006, 07:21 AM
If you break even or come out a little ahead than you're a winner. Good job.

Saulbadguy
06-29-2006, 07:24 AM
I only go for the free soda.