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View Full Version : 7 Arrested in Miami for plotting to Bomb the sears Tower.


MarcBulger
06-22-2006, 09:04 PM
THe FBI has arrested 7 men for plotting to bomb the Sears Tower. 5 are citizens 1 is an illegal alien and the other is a legal alien. Apparently there were not apart of Al-Quida but were sympathyzers to al-queda and believed in Jihad. Wake up America we are still at war. Thank You Lord that Janet Reno is still not in charge of Law Enforcment in the United States.

Phobia
06-22-2006, 09:07 PM
We should lop off their heads and put a video on the internet.

listopencil
06-22-2006, 09:08 PM
We should lop off their heads and put a video on the internet.


I've got a hacksaw, who has a video camera?

MarcBulger
06-22-2006, 09:08 PM
More Info: The citizens were apparently African-American Muslims. One of which had taken some sort of al-Queda oath. (Whatever thats worth) They had apparently conducted surveillance of the Sears Tower and the FBI Office in Miami.

Logical
06-22-2006, 09:09 PM
We should lop off their heads and put a video on the internet.Can we just lop of MarcBulger's head and have Al Jeezera play it instead.

MarcBulger
06-22-2006, 09:11 PM
Wow that was logical, Logical

Logical
06-22-2006, 09:16 PM
Wow that was logical, LogicalI am just trying to rid the Planet of you and recxjake.

KC Jones
06-22-2006, 09:22 PM
Dude, who are you kidding? Janet Reno would have lit those retards on fire and and used their still smoldering bodies for bayonet practice for the ATF troops.

Sully
06-22-2006, 09:35 PM
But...but...
I thought we were fighting them there so we wouldn't have to fight them here?


I'm confused.

Phobia
06-22-2006, 09:44 PM
But...but...
I thought we were fighting them there so we wouldn't have to fight them here?


I'm confused.

I'm confused too. What are you suggesting with this post?

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 10:33 PM
These guys were Americans, who took a pledge to alQaeda.
Not certain they were real alQaeda.

Adept Havelock
06-22-2006, 10:41 PM
These guys were Americans, who took a pledge to alQaeda.
Not certain they were real alQaeda.

Oh, I hate alQaeda poseurs almost as much as real alQaeda. Maybe more.

Only doing terrorism on the weekends, while holding down a corporate job for the man during the week. ;)

FAX
06-22-2006, 10:41 PM
These guys were Americans, who took a pledge to alQaeda.
Not certain they were real alQaeda.

What's the difference, Ms. BucEyedPea?

FAX

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 10:46 PM
What's the difference, Ms. BucEyedPea?

FAX


There is no difference in what damage they woulda done. It doesn't make them innocent. But it's not like we have some from the real alQaeda at large, based on current info. Based on what I heard it sounded like a copy-cat scheme so far.

FAX
06-22-2006, 10:51 PM
There is no difference in what damage they woulda done. It doesn't make them innocent. But it's not like we have some from the real alQaeda at large, based on current info. Based on what I heard it sounded like a copy-cat scheme so far.

Interesting. I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here, Ms. BucEyedPea. Really.

It's just that, if I were to pledge myself heart and soul to Hitler, would I not be a Nazi? Or were I to take the Catholic Profession of Faith, would I not be a Catholic?

I'm trying to figure out how one goes about differentiating between real and fake al-Qaeda terrorists.

FAX

Phobia
06-22-2006, 10:53 PM
If you swear you're not trying to be a smartass but the following retorts are very smartass in nature....

Phobia
06-22-2006, 10:53 PM
test

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 11:03 PM
Fax,
I see what your saying. I'm not tryin' to lessen what they were plotting by that statement. They just don't seem to be part of the real alQaeda network and operated on their own. You wouldn't separate them as far as what they did being an act of war for this war or as a crime...but it would NOT be like we caught some real alQaeda either.

And if that's the case that actual Americans living here, can up and do that, why are we safer being using nation-state conventional warfare in Iraq or having to change the world into democracies if it's as simple as saying "Hey I pledge myself to alQaeda!"

Seems to me to be a different kind enemy and a different kind of war.

BTW we do have Nazi's in this country. So long as they don't commit a crime they can be a Nazi here. I realize we're at war so this would be different on someone claiming to be alQaeda or some such. But someone can be a Nazi. We have Neo-Nazi's here.

FAX
06-22-2006, 11:18 PM
Fax,
I see what your saying. I'm not tryin' to lessen what they were plotting by that statement. They just don't seem to be part of the real alQaeda network and operated on their own. You wouldn't separate them as far as what they did being an act of war for this war or as a crime...but it would NOT be like we caught some real alQaeda either.

And if that's the case that actual Americans living here, can up and do that, why are we safer being using nation-state conventional warfare in Iraq or having to change the world into democracies if it's as simple as saying "Hey I pledge myself to alQaeda!"

Seems to me to be a different kind enemy and a different kind of war.

BTW we do have Nazi's in this country. So long as they don't commit a crime they can be a Nazi here. I realize we're at war so this would be different on someone claiming to be alQaeda or some such. But someone can be a Nazi. We have Neo-Nazi's here.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you were diminishing the crime or the criminals in this case, Ms. BucEyedPea.

Actually, I think I see what you're saying. So, the basic premise is that there is an "organized" al-Qaeda with which these individuals were not aligned, correct? Making them copy cat al-Qaeda, right?

That's one of the things that makes this entire situation so strange and difficult. Any knucklehead can roll out of bed, call himself an al-Qaeda soldier and blow something or someone to hell. Then we're faced with an interesting problem; should we treat these individuals as criminals, terrorists, or combatants? It's a puzzler.

As for why we're in Iraq, with all respect I prefer not to engage in that conversation as it's somewhat moot at this moment in time. We're there. I would like to see the episode brought to a successful conclusion that leaves Iraq in charge of its own affairs and relatively peaceful and free of outside influence.

In respect to Mr. Phobia's comment, I can make neither heads nor tails of it. I think it's possible that the real Mr. Phobia has exchanged identities with someone else. Whoever it is, I think they're trying to start a big fight or something. Maybe it's really Mr. Rain Man.

FAX

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 11:23 PM
Then we're faced with an interesting problem; should we treat these individuals as criminals, terrorists, or combatants? It's a puzzler.

Yeah...good point. They're all three as I see it. I guess they could even be POW's? :hmmm:

I do think anyone pledging to alQaeda in such a way should be considered an enemy and captured...even if there was no actual plot. Because they are the the true enemy right now.

FringeNC
06-22-2006, 11:25 PM
These guys were Americans, who took a pledge to alQaeda.
Not certain they were real alQaeda.

Al-Q is more of an ideology than a functioning organization nowadays.

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 11:28 PM
Al-Q is more of an ideology than a functioning organization nowadays.

So anyone can just agree with them and that's it?

I read it was a more a franchise operation; that they kinda join up as in an established alliance but bring it to their own turf. Heard they're even in India and other places.

FAX
06-22-2006, 11:37 PM
So anyone can just agree with them and that's it?

I read it was a more a franchise operation; that they kinda join up as in an established alliance but bring it to their own turf. Heard they're even in India and other places.

I think of them as a virus. Spreading and infecting the entire body.

How does one eliminate a virus?

FAX

FringeNC
06-22-2006, 11:38 PM
So anyone can just agree with them and that's it?

I read it was a more a franchise operation; that they kinda join up as in an established alliance but bring it to their own turf. Heard they're even in India and other places.

I think they used to be a franchise....but now there really is no corporation that the franchisees answer to...they are on there own, which I think, effectively means that all these blame-America-first (well second, I guess) disgruntled Muslims call themselves Al-Q.

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 11:39 PM
I think of them as a virus. Spreading and infecting the entire body.

How does one eliminate a virus?

FAX
To the best of my medical knowledge, nothing actually cures a virus...you just have to let it run it's course. Sure you wanna use that word? :shrug:

BucEyedPea
06-22-2006, 11:42 PM
I think they used to be a franchise....but now there really is no corporation that the franchisees answer to...they are on there own, which I think, effectively means that all these blame-America-first (well second, I guess) disgruntled Muslims call themselves Al-Q.
Hmmm... :hmmm: Could be...unfortunately that doesn't make me feel more safe. Cripe...I hope we don't turn into an Israel.

FAX
06-22-2006, 11:52 PM
To the best of my medical knowledge, nothing actually cures a virus...you just have to let it run it's course. Sure you wanna use that word? :shrug:

It seems fitting, Ms. BucEyedPea. And you're right. The way to fight a virus is to inoculate against it. Removing its ability to live by eliminating a viable host.

FAX

Loki
06-23-2006, 12:01 AM
I've got a hacksaw, who has a video camera?
a hacksaw would be too quick and far too humane...

i'm thinking dull, rusty butterknife.

Amnorix
06-23-2006, 06:43 AM
Thank You Lord that Janet Reno is still not in charge of Law Enforcment in the United States.

Like she was when 9/11 happened, you mean, or...? :spock:

Amnorix
06-23-2006, 06:46 AM
It's truly unfortunate that our criminal laws aren't well designed to deal with these kinds of people.

Moooo
06-23-2006, 06:51 AM
It's truly unfortunate that our criminal laws aren't well designed to deal with these kinds of people.

I believe Thomas Jefferson said he would rather see 10 people aquitted, yet guilty for a crime, than one person wrongfully convicted. This is how it works.

Yet we still have something like 1/3 of the world's prisoners, so...

Moooo

MOhillbilly
06-23-2006, 06:54 AM
this plot sounds like the turner diaries except its on the wrong side of the race line.

Iowanian
06-23-2006, 09:24 AM
They are probably just freedom fighters.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13497335/?GT1=8211

NBC News and news services

MIAMI - Calling them "homegrown terrorists," Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Friday that seven men had been charged with conspiring to work with al-Qaida to blow up Chicago's Sears Tower and five federal buildings.

“They were persons who for whatever reason came to view their home country as the enemy,” Gonzales said at a news conference at the Justice Department. The suspects include U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.

Gonzales cited court documents that said the ringleader boasted of wanting to "kill all the devils we can" in a mission "just as good or greater than 9/11."

The seven individuals indicted by a federal grand jury were taken into custody Thursday when authorities swarmed a Miami warehouse that had been used by a Black Muslim group.

According to the court documents, a man identified as Narseal Batiste was the recruiter who wanted to organize "soldiers" to build an Islamic army to wage holy war.

The others were identified as Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augustine.

Batiste allegedly met last December in a hotel room with someone posing as a representative of al-Qaida — someone law enforcement officials say was actually an agent of a country friendly to the United States.

The indictment said Batiste initially asked for "boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios, and vehicles," as well as $50,000 in cash, to help him build an "Islamic Army to wage jihad.”


'Good or greater than 9/11'
In February, the indictment stated, Batiste told the foreign agent that he wanted him and his men to attend an al-Qaida training camp so as to "kill all the devils we can" in a mission he said "would be just as good or greater than 9/11" — beginning with the destruction of the Sears Tower.

At a meeting on March 16 at a warehouse in the Miami area, the seven defendants allegedly discussed a plot to bomb FBI buildings in five cities, and each swore an oath of loyalty to al-Qaida before the purported al-Qaida representative.

The person they believed to be an al-Qaida representative gave Batiste a video camera, which Batiste said he would use to film the North Miami Beach FBI building, the indictment said. At a March 26 meeting, Batiste and Augustin provided the foreign agent with photographs of the FBI building, as well as video of other Miami government buildings, and discussed the plot to bomb the FBI building.

But on May 24, the indictment said, Batiste told the foreign agent that he was experiencing delays “because of various problems within his organization.” Batiste said he wanted to continue his mission and his relationship with al-Qaida nonetheless, the document said.

The informant's ability to track the group from its early stages had neutralized the threat.

“There is no imminent threat to Miami or any other area because of these operations,” said Richard Kolko, spokesman for FBI headquarters in Washington. He declined further comment.

One source said the suspects had been trying to buy weapons and other things needed to carry out attacks. Ammonium nitrate, a fertilizer compound that can also be used as an explosive, was reportedly among the items.

CONTINUED

Iowanian
06-23-2006, 09:26 AM
I am just trying to rid the Planet of you and recxjake.

Thats funny, when your voice is shaky from that vigorous and enthusiastic reacharound you're giving Dense.

Back to our program...


The wanna-be terrorist pukes should be Fed to the pigs on live TV.

BucEyedPea
06-23-2006, 09:55 AM
Batiste allegedly met last December in a hotel room with someone posing as a representative of al-Qaida — someone law enforcement officials say was actually an agent of a country friendly to the United States.


Wtf is that all about? Friendly to the US? :hmmm: That makes no sense to me.

Maybe they were acting as a spy? :shrug:

Who was the informant?

Sounds like we're using more of what we really need: good human intel. Good job!

Sully
06-23-2006, 10:00 AM
I'm confused too. What are you suggesting with this post?

I was just pointing out the silliness of the phrase,"We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here." as if it would be all that hard for 10 guys to leave wherever the "there" of the week would be, to come here and cause some major damage.

Cochise
06-23-2006, 10:09 AM
“They were persons who for whatever reason came to view their home country as the enemy,”

Ooops, sounds familiar.

Phobia
06-23-2006, 10:19 AM
Wtf is that all about? Friendly to the US? :hmmm: That makes no sense to me.

Maybe they were acting as a spy? :shrug:

Who was the informant?

Sounds like we're using more of what we really need: good human intel. Good job!

That couldn't possibly be the reason we're friendly with the Saudis. Could it?

HC_Chief
06-23-2006, 10:44 AM
We need a giant blender... toss those seven and the ~300 from gitmo into it.... make some bitchin' terrorist cat-food. Bet it would sell well :D

vailpass
06-23-2006, 12:06 PM
Thats funny, when your voice is shaky from that vigorous and enthusiastic reacharound you're giving Dense. ROFL

Back to our program...


The wanna-be terrorist pukes should be Fed to the pigs on live TV.

If that isn't the truth then I don't know what is.

Vlad, your blind backing of the single most despised poster on this board leaves your call for the departure of others with less authority than a poster of your status should command.

Logical
06-23-2006, 05:34 PM
Thats funny, when your voice is shaky from that vigorous and enthusiastic reacharound you're giving Dense.

Back to our program...


The wanna-be terrorist pukes should be Fed to the pigs on live TV.

The difference is I was being sarcastic, I really don't want to see them leave. Their stupidity is amusing, much like watching you and Troy over react to DEnise is funnier than hell most of the time.

Logical
06-23-2006, 05:36 PM
If that isn't the truth then I don't know what is.

Vlad, your blind backing of the single most despised poster on this board leaves your call for the departure of others with less authority than a poster of your status should command.It was me poking at them, I was not serious. If I really wanted them gone I would work to goad them into doing something to be banned for, I have done it in the past and I could probably do it again.

Logical
06-23-2006, 05:40 PM
I sure did not see any big follow-up stories on this today. I hope that means this is a minor aberration, which would be good for the US long term.

Iowanian
06-23-2006, 07:42 PM
Sure you were being sarcastic Logical. Sure you were.

SBK
06-23-2006, 08:22 PM
Ooops, sounds familiar.

Yeah, I wasn't aware that the FBI had raided the DNC headquarters. ROFL

Logical
06-23-2006, 09:39 PM
Sure you were being sarcastic Logical. Sure you were.

You have got to be kidding, you know I enjoy nothing more than picking on people on this BB if these two uber victims were not around who would I pick on?

patteeu
06-24-2006, 09:23 AM
Fax,
I see what your saying. I'm not tryin' to lessen what they were plotting by that statement. They just don't seem to be part of the real alQaeda network and operated on their own. You wouldn't separate them as far as what they did being an act of war for this war or as a crime...but it would NOT be like we caught some real alQaeda either.

And if that's the case that actual Americans living here, can up and do that, why are we safer being using nation-state conventional warfare in Iraq or having to change the world into democracies if it's as simple as saying "Hey I pledge myself to alQaeda!"

Seems to me to be a different kind enemy and a different kind of war.

BTW we do have Nazi's in this country. So long as they don't commit a crime they can be a Nazi here. I realize we're at war so this would be different on someone claiming to be alQaeda or some such. But someone can be a Nazi. We have Neo-Nazi's here.

When you are building a house, the fact that you need a screwdriver to drive some screws doesn't mean that you won't be needing a hammer from time to time.

Our war against islamic jihad (aka islamofascists, militant jihadists, radical islamists, etc.) involves a wide variety of tools. Obviously, conventional warfare isn't the right tool for weeding out freelance islamists who developed their ideology over the internet or in prison and who are running a completely isolated op from their garage, but that doesn't mean it won't be the right tool for a different GWoT job.

patteeu
06-24-2006, 09:25 AM
I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you were diminishing the crime or the criminals in this case, Ms. BucEyedPea.

Actually, I think I see what you're saying. So, the basic premise is that there is an "organized" al-Qaeda with which these individuals were not aligned, correct? Making them copy cat al-Qaeda, right?

That's one of the things that makes this entire situation so strange and difficult. Any knucklehead can roll out of bed, call himself an al-Qaeda soldier and blow something or someone to hell. Then we're faced with an interesting problem; should we treat these individuals as criminals, terrorists, or combatants? It's a puzzler.

As for why we're in Iraq, with all respect I prefer not to engage in that conversation as it's somewhat moot at this moment in time. We're there. I would like to see the episode brought to a successful conclusion that leaves Iraq in charge of its own affairs and relatively peaceful and free of outside influence.

In respect to Mr. Phobia's comment, I can make neither heads nor tails of it. I think it's possible that the real Mr. Phobia has exchanged identities with someone else. Whoever it is, I think they're trying to start a big fight or something. Maybe it's really Mr. Rain Man.

FAX


The bitter feud between you and Rain Man has got to stop. I feel somewhat responsible since I proposed replacing Rain Man with you when you were just a nOOb, thus getting Rain Man's hackles up something fierce, but this has gotten way out of hand!

patteeu
06-24-2006, 09:37 AM
I was just pointing out the silliness of the phrase,"We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here." as if it would be all that hard for 10 guys to leave wherever the "there" of the week would be, to come here and cause some major damage.

The only thing you succeeded in pointing out was your overly black and white [willful?] lack of understanding of the situation. Can you not recognize that losing the ability of operate terrorist training camps freely in Afghanistan hampers al Qaeda's abilities to plan, train, and execute operations against the US? It's also pretty obvious that any given jihadist who chooses to fight us in Iraq cannot at the same time pull off an attack in the US.

No one has EVER claimed that fighting al Qaeda overseas allows us to avoid fighting them here ALTOGETHER. You've heard of the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, terror alerts, and other domestic (or partially so) measures, no doubt?

It's time to look past the catchwords and slogans and engage the actual ideas behind those shorthand labels instead of merely criticizing the labels themselves.

BucEyedPea
06-24-2006, 10:13 AM
When you are building a house, the fact that you need a screwdriver to drive some screws doesn't mean that you won't be needing a hammer from time to time.

Our war against islamic jihad (aka islamofascists, militant jihadists, radical islamists, etc.) involves a wide variety of tools. Obviously, conventional warfare isn't the right tool for weeding out freelance islamists who developed their ideology over the internet or in prison and who are running a completely isolated op from their garage, but that doesn't mean it won't be the right tool for a different GWoT job.


I agree, when it's on the right targets....Afghanistan was a right target.
I think you know I don't feel Iraq was. Aside from that, we need far more human intel than conventional warfare.And I wish Bush would call it a war agasint pan-islamic jihad than just "terror." What also needs to go is his "making over the world" and replacing all rogues regimes with democracies rhetoric.

Loki
06-25-2006, 12:43 AM
It was me poking at them, I was not serious. If I really wanted them gone I would work to goad them into doing something to be banned for, I have done it in the past and I could probably do it again.
lol...
it must have something to do with that "strong moral fiber".

Logical
06-25-2006, 12:54 AM
lol...
it must have something to do with that "strong moral fiber".Not really the issue, I just on occasion enjoy seeing if I can get someone liberal or conservative to go over the edge to where they do something to get themselves banned. It is sort of a psychological contol challenge. I would have really enjoyed psyops had I been in the military.

Sully
06-25-2006, 08:35 AM
The only thing you succeeded in pointing out was your overly black and white [willful?] lack of understanding of the situation. Can you not recognize that losing the ability of operate terrorist training camps freely in Afghanistan hampers al Qaeda's abilities to plan, train, and execute operations against the US? It's also pretty obvious that any given jihadist who chooses to fight us in Iraq cannot at the same time pull off an attack in the US.

No one has EVER claimed that fighting al Qaeda overseas allows us to avoid fighting them here ALTOGETHER. You've heard of the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, terror alerts, and other domestic (or partially so) measures, no doubt?

It's time to look past the catchwords and slogans and engage the actual ideas behind those shorthand labels instead of merely criticizing the labels themselves.


The argument is and has always been, "We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here."

I've never heard your version..."We are fighting them there, so that we fight them less over here."

or

"We are fighting them there, so that we may pass laws over here that make it easier to fight them over here."

Adept Havelock
06-25-2006, 09:47 AM
The argument is and has always been, "We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here."

I've never heard your version..."We are fighting them there, so that we fight them less over here."

or

"We are fighting them there, so that we may pass laws over here that make it easier to fight them over here."


ROFL Nice.....

Loki
06-25-2006, 11:05 AM
Not really the issue, I just on occasion enjoy seeing if I can get someone liberal or conservative to go over the edge to where they do something to get themselves banned. It is sort of a psychological contol challenge. I would have really enjoyed psyops had I been in the military.
why poke the stick into it if they're going to step on their dicks anyways?

instigation?

HC_Chief
06-25-2006, 11:11 AM
why poke the stick into it if they're going to step on their dicks anyways?

instigation?

Ego. He fancies himself intellectually superior. The need to <i>prove</i> it however, leads me to think he doesn't believe it himself. ;)

JMO

Logical
06-25-2006, 05:23 PM
why poke the stick into it if they're going to step on their dicks anyways?

instigation?Amusement factor

|Zach|
06-25-2006, 05:45 PM
The argument is and has always been, "We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here."

I've never heard your version..."We are fighting them there, so that we fight them less over here."

or

"We are fighting them there, so that we may pass laws over here that make it easier to fight them over here."
ROFL

Dave Lane
06-26-2006, 08:22 AM
I am just trying to rid the Planet of you and recxjake.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Me too!!!

rep

Dave

patteeu
06-26-2006, 10:18 AM
The argument is and has always been, "We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here."

I've never heard your version..."We are fighting them there, so that we fight them less over here."

or

"We are fighting them there, so that we may pass laws over here that make it easier to fight them over here."

I guess I can't force you to stop being overly simplistic if you are determined.

mlyonsd
06-26-2006, 10:20 AM
I guess I can't force you to stop being overly simplistic if you are determined.

I noticed that was your 11,000th post.

Could have been a bit more dramatic. :rolleyes:

go bowe
06-26-2006, 10:40 AM
no shit...

patteeu
06-26-2006, 11:40 AM
I noticed that was your 11,000th post.

Could have been a bit more dramatic. :rolleyes:

ROFL I'll try to think of something special for my 12,000th, just for you.

Sully
06-26-2006, 12:15 PM
I guess I can't force you to stop being overly simplistic if you are determined.

My criticism is that the term is overly simplistic (and wrong to top it off). You don't seem to have a problem when simplicity is used by those you agree with.

Phobia
06-26-2006, 12:22 PM
Sully, I'm still very confused by the point you've attempted to make. We haven't had an actual attack on US soil since 9/11. That seems to support those who say the above.

patteeu
06-26-2006, 12:33 PM
My criticism is that the term is overly simplistic (and wrong to top it off). You don't seem to have a problem when simplicity is used by those you agree with.

I don't have a problem with simplistic labels because I understand that complex concepts can't always be completely encapsulated by bumper-sticker length labels or slogans. That doesn't mean that labels and slogans aren't useful communication tools.

I do have a problem with people who take those slogans at face value as though they don't understand the above.

I have to read between the lines since you don't appear to be willing to come right out and say what you mean, but I take it that you think we should bring our troops home and fight a defensive war against [fill in the thousand word essay describing the precise enemy we face here].

Sully
06-26-2006, 12:37 PM
That doesn't mean that labels and slogans aren't useful communication tools.


It does when they say something completely different fromt he point you are trying to make.

edit:
And if you believe that many of those who tout that slogan, don't believe it to the T, in just the way I'm characterizing it, then I can understand your desire to paint it as not-harmful.

Sully
06-26-2006, 12:38 PM
Sully, I'm still very confused by the point you've attempted to make. We haven't had an actual attack on US soil since 9/11. That seems to support those who say the above.

True.
But you could also say that. during all those years we weren't attacked while we weren't "fighting them over there," whatever we were doing was working, as well.

patteeu
06-26-2006, 12:39 PM
It does when they say something completely different fromt he point you are trying to make.

Well that might be true, but that's not what's happening here.

Phobia
06-26-2006, 12:43 PM
True.
But you could also say that. during all those years we weren't attacked while we weren't "fighting them over there," whatever we were doing was working, as well.

You could say that but I'm not sure anybody would be convinced.