PDA

View Full Version : Commentary on the NBA finals.......


Mecca
06-23-2006, 12:03 AM
For the people here who couldn't grasp how bad the officiating was or that just thought Dallas fans were whining.

Here are 2 columns that I fully agree with on the state of the NBA and what was going on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060622

An email comment that must be posted because it basically sums up the series....

Clover in Syracuse: "I think I farted twice on the couch during this series -- and I was called for two fouls against Dwyane Wade."

Frazod
06-23-2006, 12:51 AM
I barely watched any of the games, so my question is: was the NBA championship as utterly f#cking rigged as the Super Bowl?

tk13
06-23-2006, 12:55 AM
I agree, as usual, Bill Simmons nails it. :)

But here's the thing: Dallas still didn't do enough to win the series.

They choked away a 13-point lead near the end of Game 3, capped off by a terrible pass (the Haslem steal) and Nowitzki's missed free throw. They didn't show up for Game 4 -- just an indefensible no-show on every level. I'm giving them somewhat of a pass for Game 5 because of the officiating, but Howard did miss two huge free throws in OT, and they had a number of brainfarts down the stretch (GP getting open for the lefty scoop shot, not double-teaming Wade every time, the ridiculous Haq-A-Shaq strategy that helped put them in the penalty), plus Nowitzki wasn't the best player on the floor for the third straight game. And in Game 6, Miami played its finest game -- dominated the boards, locked down on defense (Dallas shot only 37 percent) and Wade did everything else. Dallas' big mistake was letting a veteran team like Miami's get so close -- once the Heat were a game away, they could smell it. Guys like Walker and Mourning were practically possessed. You could see it.

Dallas seemed tight down the stretch; Miami seemed cool. Dallas complained for two straight weeks; Miami didn't complain about anything. By Game 6, Avery Johnson looked tighter than a married guy in Vegas who was afraid to get a lap dance at someone else's bachelor party; Pat Riley looked like he was headed to have a bottle of chardonnay on his boat right after the game. Even the body language of the two stars was different -- Wade was cooler than cool, Nowitzki was constantly frowning and yanking his mouthpiece out. I never felt like Miami was better until Game 6, but that's the thing -- the Heat were tougher and more resilient, they could rebound and play defense, and they had one guy who could score whenever he wanted. That's really all you need to win a championship, those three elements. And they didn't fully come together until Tuesday night. Miami wanted it more than Dallas. That's why the Heat won.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 12:57 AM
I agree, as usual, Bill Simmons nails it. :)

That part is true, but he does also point out how horrid the officiating was and the ridiculous treatment Wade was getting which alot of people posting on here were glossing over.

Miles
06-23-2006, 12:58 AM
I agree, as usual, Bill Simmons nails it. :)

Yep that is dead on.

Miles
06-23-2006, 01:00 AM
That part is true, but he does also point out how horrid the officiating was and the ridiculous treatment Wade was getting which alot of people posting on here were glossing over.

That is a hell of a lot to read into "I'm giving them somewhat of a pass for Game 5 because of the officiating."

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:00 AM
I think my favorite part is how he says Dwyane Wade punched Dirk in the stomach to get around him yet the foul was called on Dirk at the end of game 6.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:01 AM
That is a hell of a lot to read into "I'm giving them somewhat of a pass for Game 5 because of the officiating."

He frequently throws in comments like "Wade coddled by the officials". Pouring champagne on the officials for a thank you. In the first column I linked before the series was over, he was exploding about how horrible it was and how it meant bad things for the NBA's future.

tk13
06-23-2006, 01:02 AM
I barely watched any of the games, so my question is: was the NBA championship as utterly f#cking rigged as the Super Bowl?
Some people want to say it is, but people just like controversy. The officiating wasn't good, it is the NBA. But... the reality is the Mavs had a 2-0 series lead... PLUS a double digit lead in the 4th quarter of game 3. They should've been up 3 games to 0, totally owned the series. But instead they melted down, lost the next couple games.... then when there was a controversial call people screamed bloody murder.

Miles
06-23-2006, 01:03 AM
He frequently throws in comments like "Wade coddled by the officials". Pouring champagne on the officials for a thank you. In the first column I linked before the series was over, he was exploding about how horrible it was and how it meant bad things for the NBA's future.

Sorry I missed that TK just posted an excerpt.

tk13
06-23-2006, 01:09 AM
Sorry I missed that TK just posted an excerpt.
The first column he blasts the officiating. The 2nd column he recants a bit and admits he was a little over the line... then says what I posted. He mocks the officiating, but that's Bill Simmons for you.

Miles
06-23-2006, 01:11 AM
Some people want to say it is, but people just like controversy. The officiating wasn't good, it is the NBA. But... the reality is the Mavs had a 2-0 series lead... PLUS a double digit lead in the 4th quarter of game 3. They should've been up 3 games to 0, totally owned the series. But instead they melted down, lost the next couple games.... then when there was a controversial call people screamed bloody murder.

That is a pretty good summary. It was also as if the Mavs were focusing more on the officials rather than their real objective. The Rockets and Van Gundy have fell into the same trap last season in the first round series against the Mavs.

The only series in which I think a team may have gotten jobbed was in some of those Lakers, Kings matchups. The 04 series in particular comes to mind but I also remember the Kings horrible FT shooting not helping their cause.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:13 AM
I'll be the first one to say that the Mavs didn't play all that well. But in the same breath I'll also say the coddling of Wade got so ridiculous at one point I wanted to run him over with my car, it made me hate him with a passion.

58-4ever
06-23-2006, 01:19 AM
Yeah, there were some close calls, but the series didn't even go to 7 games. Give me a break and stop whining. :deevee: :deevee:

tk13
06-23-2006, 01:23 AM
I will say one thing I agree with him about, the style of play issue, how Miami winning keeps the status quo in place. The NBA is a center dominated game. Always has been. Other than Jordan's Bulls, every championship team over the last 3 decades or so has had a great center. Parish, Jabbar, Olajuwon, Ben Wallace, etc.

That's the one thing that makes Jordan great to me, he did it without a true star center. Nobody else could do that. Sure he had Pippen, but there were some teams that had good 1-2 punches, but you've always needed a good center to win. Jordan didn't. If Dallas had won this thing, the NBA really would've turned on its head, because Dampier and Diop were the centers, and Nowitzski's a perimeter type player. There's never been a team like that win. Definitely would've ushered in the era of euro-ball. But Shaq and Mourning were enough along with Wade to get it done. Mourning especially was huge in that 6th game.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:25 AM
The NBA needs to be turned on its head. Most of whats going on in their league right now is heavily boring, well except for the Suns.

tk13
06-23-2006, 01:30 AM
I'd like to see the league become more diverse. Not all maul ball or all euro ball but a combination of the two. But I'm one of the three people on earth who likes the idea of one league having a DH and another letting the pitcher bat though. So don't listen to me.

ChiefsCountry
06-23-2006, 01:32 AM
I'd like to see the league become more diverse. Not all maul ball or all euro ball but a combination of the two. But I'm one of the three people on earth who likes the idea of one league having a DH and another letting the pitcher bat though. So don't listen to me.

Add me as one of the other people on the baseball thing.

DaneMcCloud
06-23-2006, 01:32 AM
I'll be the first one to say that the Mavs didn't play all that well. But in the same breath I'll also say the coddling of Wade got so ridiculous at one point I wanted to run him over with my car, it made me hate him with a passion.

You hate Dwayne Wade because you think the Officials coddled him? WTF? Why would you "hate" him because of that?

FWIW, only LOSERS complain about the officials. Funny how you didn't mention that Nowitzki disappeared in the 4th quarter of those games. Funny how you didn't mention that Avery wasn't focused on the game in the 4th quarter. Funny how you didn't mentioned that the Heat just obviously, flat out wanted it more and their bench totally stepped it up.

Go to a Lakers game or Clippers game and then tell me how bad the NBA game has become. The NBA is a blast to watch. And Shaq-Daddy is still the Man.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:33 AM
I think the NBA is run by incompetent people. If they can't take 2 seconds to realize if they'd infornce their rules get away from ,maul ball and back to the showtime 80's and basically what the Suns are doing right now, they'd attract a ton more fans to their game. I have a friend who lives in Phoenix and she couldn't give a rip about basketball the entire time I knew her until the Suns started playing like they play now.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:35 AM
You hate Dwayne Wade because you think the Officials coddled him? WTF? Why would you "hate" him because of that?

FWIW, only LOSERS complain about the officials. Funny how you didn't mention that Nowitzki disappeared in the 4th quarter of those games. Funny how you didn't mention that Avery wasn't focused on the game in the 4th quarter. Funny how you didn't mentioned that the Heat just obviously, flat out wanted it more and their bench totally stepped it up.

Go to a Lakers game or Clippers game and then tell me how bad the NBA game has become. The NBA is a blast to watch. And Shaq-Daddy is still the Man.

I didn't really care who won but it got nauseating to watch one guy get the Jordan treatment. I don't think the NBA is a blast to watch, I find the Pistons, Spurs, Heat to an extent all very boring and those are alot of the better teams.

The Suns are a blast to watch and when Dallas was running with them that was a fun series. I'd like to see that be more of what the league is about.

DaneMcCloud
06-23-2006, 01:37 AM
I didn't really care who won but it got nauseating to watch one guy get the Jordan treatment. I don't think the NBA is a blast to watch, I find the Pistons, Spurs, Heat to an extent all very boring and those are alot of the better teams.

The Suns are a blast to watch and when Dallas was running with them that was a fun series. I'd like to see that be more of what the league is about.

Well, then the NBA isn't for you. If you don't think that the NBA Finals, with many of those games coming down to the final seconds after scoring in the high 90's or more isn't exciting, then you never will.

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:39 AM
I just don't enjoy the style that 98% of the teams in the league employ. I'll always make sure to watch the Suns if they're on but outside of that it's just like blah. I don't know many people who aren't hardcore fans that wanna see a finals like the Spurs Pistons one.

DaneMcCloud
06-23-2006, 01:45 AM
I just don't enjoy the style that 98% of the teams in the league employ. I'll always make sure to watch the Suns if they're on but outside of that it's just like blah. I don't know many people who aren't hardcore fans that wanna see a finals like the Spurs Pistons one.

Again, you and your friends are not fans of the NBA. There's nothing wrong with it and it's totally understandable since you're probably 500 miles in either direction from an NBA team (Minnesota, Denver, Dallas, San Antone). But I'll tell you from experience, once you see these guys run the court in person, it's awesome and easy to get hooked.

Hopefully, KC will be lucky enough to get a team at the new Sprint Center. Then we can talk. :)

Mecca
06-23-2006, 01:48 AM
It's not that I don't think the guys have talent or the players aren't good. Or that there isn't amazing talent all over the floor it's just that the style they promote as the winning style now is the boring one.

Reaper16
06-23-2006, 01:53 AM
I'll be the first one to say that the Mavs didn't play all that well. But in the same breath I'll also say the coddling of Wade got so ridiculous at one point I wanted to run him over with my car, it made me hate him with a passion.
Hey, senseless hate is my schtick - back up off.

tk13
06-23-2006, 02:01 AM
I actually like Stern. His league isn't the most popular, but he might be the most powerful guy in pro sports. It makes things entertaining. I mean his name even, Stern, perfect.

I actually prefer a lot of the NBA's policies over the NFL. Like the Larry Bird rule that allows you to keep your own guys.... plus the rookie slotting system, that'd save eons of problems in the NFL.

Stern wouldn't have caved like Tags and the owners did regarding the CBA either. He would've ripped Upshaw's intestine out through his left ear and told him "You'll get 55%, and like it." You don't mess with David Stern. :)

Mecca
06-23-2006, 02:08 AM
I actually like Stern. His league isn't the most popular, but he might be the most powerful guy in pro sports. It makes things entertaining. I mean his name even, Stern, perfect.

I actually prefer a lot of the NBA's policies over the NFL. Like the Larry Bird rule that allows you to keep your own guys.... plus the rookie slotting system, that'd save eons of problems in the NFL.

Stern wouldn't have caved like Tags and the owners did regarding the CBA either. He would've ripped Upshaw's intestine out through his left ear and told him "You'll get 55%, and like it." You don't mess with David Stern. :)

He also let the perception of his league get out of hand to the point where alot of middle class white people just think the NBA is a bunch of thugs and nothing else without even watching it.

jjjayb
06-23-2006, 07:28 AM
For the people here who couldn't grasp how bad the officiating was or that just thought Dallas fans were whining.




And I still think Dallas fans are whining. Get over it. Dallas blew it. Can you say ultimate choke job? They made Jake Plummer look like Cool-hand luke.

:deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee: :deevee:

There. Now here's a kleenex. Quit yer crying.

Moooo
06-23-2006, 07:33 AM
Dallas did blow it, and the officiating still sucked.

As a college basketball fan, I came into watching this series just looking to see some great basketball being played. Everytime there was even a shred of contact, there was a whistle. I was highly dissapointed, everytime i was about to see what could have been a fun play, it was blown dead...

I don't think the Heat got any more or less favorable calls than Dallas, but that their play was more apt to draw the foul with refs who were WAAAAY to whistle-happy.

IMO, it just helped me realize why I only watch the finals. Though it did make me question why I even bother with that.

Moooo

KCFalcon59
06-23-2006, 07:40 AM
The officiating wasn't great. It was typical of any NBA game. Dirk shoved off many times without a call being made. He also benefitted from being so tall that they never called him for over the back. I thought the officiating, though poor as usual, didn't favor either team.

I think Dallas played horrible defense at times. Plus Cubans whining maybe got into their heads. They looked like they lost some intensity in the second half of game 6.

NJ Chief Fan
06-23-2006, 08:38 AM
Clover in Syracuse: "I think I farted twice on the couch during this series -- and I was called for two fouls against Dwyane Wade."

damn the refs were kind to him i was at home and i yawned near flop and recieved two flagrants

pak1983
06-23-2006, 08:58 AM
nothing worse than a whiner posting something that another whiner wrote when its all about whining. I need Arnold on here to tell you to "STOP WHINING!"

would you like your cheese now?

jidar
06-23-2006, 09:30 AM
I don't give a shit about either team, **** them both, but I've watched the NBA playoffs (off and on, not every game) since MJ was getting started, and game 5 of this series was the worst officiating I think I've ever seen in any game. Wade had more trips to the free throw line than the entire Dallas team, that's pathetic and should never happen.

kepp
06-23-2006, 09:50 AM
I don't give a shit about either team, **** them both, but I've watched the NBA playoffs (off and on, not every game) since MJ was getting started, and game 5 of this series was the worst officiating I think I've ever seen in any game. Wade had more trips to the free throw line than the entire Dallas team, that's pathetic and should never happen.I've heard this time and time again since the Heat won and, IMO, it makes no sense. Why should it never happen? If a guy is playing very aggressive and driving to the basket every chance he gets while the other team gets deflated and loses a good portion of their aggression, lop-sided foul calling is bound to happen. Now, about the overall state of the officiating, I agree with a previous poster who basically said "what's new?" NBA officiating has sucked for years now...but, IMO, it sucks all the way around, not selectively to give one team an advantage over another. That's how I see it as a former Lakers fan who watched time-and-time-again as Vlade flopped around like a fish.

Moooo
06-23-2006, 09:56 AM
I've heard this time and time again since the Heat won and, IMO, it makes no sense. Why should it never happen? If a guy is playing very aggressive and driving to the basket every chance he gets while the other team gets deflated and loses a good portion of their aggression, lop-sided foul calling is bound to happen. Now, about the overall state of the officiating, I agree with a previous poster who basically said "what's new?" NBA officiating has sucked for years now...but, IMO, it sucks all the way around, not selectively to give one team an advantage over another. That's how I see it as a former Lakers fan who watched time-and-time-again as Vlade flopped around like a fish.

What I think they're trying to say is that the refs were calling the game in a way that was advantageous to Miami. If they were hardly calling any fouls at all, the Heat would have still probably won the series, but it would have favored the Mavs a lot more, and I would say guaranteed them one more win.

Moooo

HMc
06-23-2006, 10:03 AM
The NBA was very popular here in the early to mid 90s. in the late 90s it (along with the already minimal interest in our own national league) died a fairly comprehensive death. No coverage on network tv, kids disinterested in the cards, etc.

The last couple games of the finals this week were pretty much the first games id sat down to watch in ten years. I sat there and thought that A LOT of the fouls called were very soft, but i assumed it was just me. Clearly it isn't, and i don't think i'll be watching much of it again.

It's fundamentally boring watching guys shoot free throws. IMO it has its place as part of the theatre when the pressure is on, but seeing it all day is totally crap.

BIG_DADDY
06-23-2006, 10:17 AM
Dallas was all over the back of the Heat in game 5 trying to get O boards without calls which is why that changed in game 6. That being said nobody wants to see the outcome of a game come down to bad foul calls right at the end of any game much less the world championship. I would be pissed if I was a Mavericks fan too. I wanted the Heat to win but not that way. I still think the Heat is a better team but then again I am probably bias in the sense that I don't like seeing a team win just because they shoot a high free throw percentage.

Count Alex's Wins
06-23-2006, 10:29 AM
The good thing about all this is it has me interested in basketball again. I will probably watch regular season basketball next year.

Moooo
06-23-2006, 10:31 AM
The good thing about all this is it has me interested in basketball again. I will probably watch regular season basketball next year.

If you're anything like me, it will go away once you see the kickoff for the first football game of the year...

Moooo

the Talking Can
06-23-2006, 10:35 AM
Dallas fans = bitches