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oldandslow
06-28-2006, 02:42 PM
This type govt interference seems over the top...a sting to catch an Amish guy selling raw milk....c'mon...

BTW, I grew up on a dairy farm and drank only raw milk until I was 18.

Amish farmer fights milk law after sting

Manage Alerts | What Is This? MOUNT HOPE, Ohio (AP) -- Arlie Stutzman was busted in a rare sting when an undercover agent bought raw milk from the Amish dairy farmer in an unlabeled container.

Now, Stutzman is fighting the law that forbids the sale of raw milk, saying he believes it violates his religious beliefs because it prohibits him from sharing the milk he produces with others.

"While I can and I have food, I'll share it," said Stutzman, who is due in Holmes County Common Pleas Court on Friday to tell a judge his views. "Do unto others what you would have others do unto you."

Last September, a man came to Stutzman's weathered, two-story farmhouse, located in a pastoral region in northeast Ohio that has the world's largest Amish settlement. The man asked for milk.

Stutzman was leery, but agreed to fill up the man's plastic container from a 250-gallon stainless steel tank in the milkhouse.

After the creamy white, unpasteurized milk flowed into the container, the man, an undercover agent from the Ohio Department of Agriculture, gave Stutzman two dollars and left.

The department revoked Stutzman's license in February. In April, he got a new license, which allows him to sell to cheese houses and dairies, but received a warning not to sell raw milk to consumers again.

"You can't just give milk away to someone other then yourself. It's a violation of the law," said LeeAnne Mizer, spokeswoman for the department.

Organizations from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to the American Dairy Association have said that raw milk contains health risks because it has not been heated to kill bacteria, such as E. coli.

Regulators want Judge Thomas D. White to formally order Stutzman to comply with dairy laws. Stutzman said he is fighting the request on principle, saying he should be able to share his milk.

Stutzman's Amish faith places an emphasis on the community. To preserve their lifestyle, the Amish avoid the use of electricity and automobile ownership, which would allow the outside world to enter unabated into their culture.

The Amish typically do not get involved in politics, unless laws impede their ability to make a living or follow their religious beliefs. Stutzman said he is getting some community support.

"It shows he's not going to be intimidated and he's going to do what he thinks is the right thing," said his attorney, Gary Cox.

State officials said they sent the agent to his farm because they received a tip from an anonymous neighbor about raw milk sales.

Stutzman, however, said he believes he was targeted because his cows are partly owned by a group of 150 families in what is known as a herd share agreement. Members pay him a fee for the cows and are entitled to a portion of the milk.

Sales of raw milk are illegal in Ohio and 24 other states. But herd share agreements take advantage of a loophole because the group is buying the cows, not the milk.

Groups such as the Weston A. Price Foundation, which is dedicated to restoring nutrient-dense foods to people's diets, advocate the consumption of raw milk, saying pasteurization diminishes vitamin content and kills beneficial bacteria.

For Stutzman, the herd share agreement gives him an outlet for his extra milk. He also enjoys sharing his product with others who would otherwise not have access to it.

"We know people are deprived of this real food," he said.

DaKCMan AP
06-28-2006, 02:46 PM
Lock him up! This man is a danger to society!!!

BucEyedPea
06-28-2006, 02:46 PM
Interesting but I used to buy some from an Amish farm when I was pregnant. Only it was close to raw milk, being only very lightly pasteurized and not homogenized. It's actually very good for you...better than the fake crap today. Can't find anything close to it anymore. Maybe it was 'cause of the govt. :shrug:

Baby Lee
06-28-2006, 02:48 PM
Stutzman's Amish faith places an emphasis on the community. To preserve their lifestyle, the Amish avoid the use of electricity and automobile ownership, which would allow the outside world to enter unabated into their culture.
If the Amish owned an island, could they own cars and use electricity, but not own boats?

chagrin
06-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Just taking the letter of the law into account, what he did was illegal (he said it violated his religious beliefs because he likes to "share" but the undercover agent "bought") but whatever.
Take a look at this one, going on right now here in Orlando:

Pastor of a small church in Central Florida takes advantage of at least 2 of his "flock" by manipulating them to have sex with him in order to please God. This same Pastor allows homeless people to sleep inside his church, and he hands out food to the homeless in the name of all that is good with God, trick is, he charges them - the homeless people have to pay for a charity. The church does not have a license to house and feed people, for a price, anymore than this dude in the thread title post has.

chagrin
06-28-2006, 02:56 PM
If the Amish owned an island, could they own cars and use electricity, but not own boats?

The part that you quoted up there, is a typical and glaring example of how some groups of people, in this case a religious group, uses double standards and insists upon doing what they want, regardless of the law, because they are a "minority".

Small potatoes maybe, but hypocrisy is hypocrisy, regardless of who they are and how much money they make. You can't argue with the letter of the law, only if it's petty - but both sides better win out.

banyon
06-28-2006, 03:00 PM
If the FDA would just irradiate it like they do in Europe, then this milk wouldn't have been a problem.

BucEyedPea
06-28-2006, 03:02 PM
If the FDA would just irradiate it like they do in Europe, then this milk wouldn't have been a problem.
:eek: Let's make everyone in America unhealthy and use irradiation.

BTW...I am surprised at this ...in Europe? They usually eat fresher more natual food overall.

banyon
06-28-2006, 03:10 PM
:eek: Let's make everyone in America unhealthy and use irradiation.

BTW...I am surprised at this ...in Europe? They usually eat fresher more natual food overall.

It's not radioactive. It sort of stunned me at first when I walked into a supermarket and looked for the milk. I couldn't find it in the cooler and I asked a clerk and he said "It's over there on the shelf" And I asked "you people just leave warm milk on a shelf?". It was then that i was told about the wonders of irradiated produce and dairy.

There are apparently a lot of medical studies that conclude that the process presents no danger to humans, as the radiocativity is almost completely dissipated when they are through. Still, I am usually distrustful of new products/processes that haven't seen long term medical data. It's the reason to this date that I will not get Lasik eye surgery.

I have heard that the reason we don't do it is that the poultry and dairy inspectors apparently would lose out on a lot of their $$$ and have lobbied against it.

StcChief
06-28-2006, 03:14 PM
Amish closed society will remain that way as long as JA
like this are involved....

This just drives them further away makes them distrust
outsiders even more. Just stupid.

BucEyedPea
06-28-2006, 03:18 PM
It's not radioactive. It sort of stunned me at first when I walked into a supermarket and looked for the milk. I couldn't find it in the cooler and I asked a clerk and he said "It's over there on the shelf" And I asked "you people just leave warm milk on a shelf?". It was then that i was told about the wonders of irradiated produce and dairy.

There are apparently a lot of medical studies that conclude that the process presents no danger to humans, as the radiocativity is almost completely dissipated when they are through. Still, I am usually distrustful of new products/processes that haven't seen long term medical data. It's the reason to this date that I will not get Lasik eye surgery.

I have heard that the reason we don't do it is that the poultry and dairy inspectors apparently would lose out on a lot of their $$$ and have lobbied against it.
Well, I guess it all depends on who you read. I do know it's controversial.
I'm somewhat a health nut. Half of what I eat is organic. No, I'm not a nuts and berry type either. I eat mostly everything regular Americans eat...including red meat, even pork or ribs. I just use fresher, more natural, grown on better soil, hormone free ingredients that have been through the least amount of destruction. Things that increase shelf life just can't be in their most natural and healthiest states. Hence all the chemicals you see listed on packaged food if you can read 'em. Any real living food in there? If you shop at an organic supermarket the literature there is quite disparaging about irradiation.

I only buy organic milk anyway because milk today is not really milk anymore as far as I am concerned. The enzymes in it are what help people digest it...and those get killed just with pasteurization. Too many people today are sensitive and or allergic to milk today it seems. One has to wonder.

Basically, if something can be eaten after 5 days...it can't be real food anymore is my way of looking at it.

I'd also have to agree on new treatments...always better to wait. I try to avoid surgery as much as possible.

Radar Chief
06-28-2006, 03:32 PM
:eek: Let's make everyone in America unhealthy and use irradiation.

BTW...I am surprised at this ...in Europe? They usually eat fresher more natual food overall.

Ever use a microwave? Guess what itís doín.

BucEyedPea
06-28-2006, 03:33 PM
Ever use a microwave? Guess what itís doín.

Nope...is one reason why I refuse to use one.
Destroys nutrients.

Radar Chief
06-28-2006, 03:36 PM
Nope...is one reason why I refuse to use one.
Destroys nutrients.

:thumb:

Iowanian
06-28-2006, 03:37 PM
Many Amish are the biggest hypocrites on earth.

Don't believe in phones....well, ok, we'll use them, well now we'll put them in the barn, well, now we'll use cell phones.

Don't believe in cars....eh English, give me a ride, turn up dat AC der Eh


I typically think you should be able to sell most of your products like is done at alot of local farmer's markets...eggs, vegetables etc.

I also think that the Amish, if selling goods to the general public, should have to follow the same rules, as anyone else.

Many run Cafes from their homes, but don't follow local food safety regulations that others would be required.

sedated
06-28-2006, 03:59 PM
because we all know the FDA has every citizens' best interests at heart :rolleyes:

htismaqe
06-28-2006, 04:21 PM
They don't want this guy to be able to sell his milk because they haven't had a chance to process it yet.

They want everybody to drink the government-approved milk, with added Vitamin D and mind-control hormones.

Hydrae
06-29-2006, 08:56 PM
I could be wrong here but from the way the article is written it sounds like the agent asked for some milk, the guy shared and then the agent gave him money. That is not a sale, that is a tip IMO.

WilliamTheIrish
06-29-2006, 09:11 PM
:eek: Let's make everyone in America unhealthy and use irradiation.

BTW...I am surprised at this ...in Europe? They usually eat fresher more natual food overall.

Radiation is more natural than anything you find in a 'health food' store.

WilliamTheIrish
06-29-2006, 09:20 PM
This whole case reeks of entrapment.

Where are we living? Amishghanistan for F's sake?

Loki
06-29-2006, 09:39 PM
entrapment much?

go bowe
06-29-2006, 09:46 PM
eh, entrapment is a tough defense to win on...

but from a common sense pov, why couldn't they leave him alone and let him share his milk with whoever wants to buy it?

make him put stickers on it that say warning, not pasteurized or whatever will make the fda/state people happy...

but he ought to be able to sell it if people want it...