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View Full Version : Can the Whitehouse and their anti-NYTimes minons look more dishonest today?


jAZ
06-28-2006, 08:40 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/06/28/terrorist_funds_tracking_no_secret_some_say?mode=PF

Terrorist funds-tracking no secret, some say
Cite White House boasts of tighter monitoring system

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | June 28, 2006

(snip)

On Monday, President Bush said it was ``disgraceful" that The New York Times and other media outlets reported last week that the US government was quietly monitoring international financial transactions handled by an industry-owned cooperative in Belgium called the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Communication, or SWIFT, which is controlled by nearly 8,000 institutions in 20 countries. The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and The Wall Street Journal also reported about the program.

(snip)

But a search of public records -- government documents posted on the Internet, congressional testimony, guidelines for bank examiners, and even an executive order President Bush signed in September 2001 -- describe how US authorities have openly sought new tools to track terrorist financing since 2001. That includes getting access to information about terrorist-linked wire transfers and other transactions, including those that travel through SWIFT.

``There have been public references to SWIFT before," said Roger Cressey, a senior White House counterterrorism official until 2003. ``The White House is overreaching when they say a crime against the war on terror. It has been in the public domain before."

Victor D. Comras , a former US diplomat who oversaw efforts at the United Nations to improve international measures to combat terror financing, said it was common knowledge that worldwide financial transactions were being closely monitored for links to terrorists. ``A lot of people were aware that this was going on," said Comras, one of a half-dozen financial experts UN Secretary General Kofi Annan recruited for the task.

``Unless they were pretty dumb, they had to assume" their transactions were being monitored, Comras said of terrorist groups. ``We have spent the last four years bragging how effective we have been in tracking terrorist financing."

Donger
06-28-2006, 08:45 PM
I don't know jAZ. I don't know what the WH or it's 'minions' are being dishonest about.

For example, there was thread in the Lounge recently that listed Priest Holmes' home address. That's a public record. Is it appropriate to list it, even on an Internet BB?

I'd say no.

And, no one's at war with Priest last I checked.

|Zach|
06-28-2006, 08:59 PM
I don't know jAZ. I don't know what the WH or it's 'minions' are being dishonest about.

For example, there was thread in the Lounge recently that listed Priest Holmes' home address. That's a public record. Is it appropriate to list it, even on an Internet BB?

I'd say no.

And, no one's at war with Priest last I checked.
A mod declared that action not appropriate...wouldn't it be interesting if that same mod had that information public himself in the past?

jAZ
06-28-2006, 09:08 PM
A mod declared that action not appropriate...wouldn't it be interesting if that same mod had that information public himself in the past?
Then then orchestrated a campaign the lead to public harassment of the 2nd guy with threats of banishment.

jAZ
06-28-2006, 09:10 PM
Then then orchestrated a campaign the lead to public harassment of the 2nd guy with threats of banishment.
And keep in mind, for Donger's scenario to be accurate, the Mod would have to be the 1st one to post it (without eventually deleting it)... then the next time it was posted... it was actually posted 3 times, by 3 seperate posters, but the mod in question lead the campaign of harassment and threats against only 1 of the 3 posters. The one that the mod found most disagree able, and most influential.

Donger
06-28-2006, 09:24 PM
And keep in mind, for Donger's scenario to be accurate, the Mod would have to be the 1st one to post it (without eventually deleting it)... then the next time it was posted... it was actually posted 3 times, by 3 seperate posters, but the mod in question lead the campaign of harassment and threats against only 1 of the 3 posters. The one that the mod found most disagree able, and most influential.

If you've got no problemo with intentionally and globally pointing out public records that can and maybe will hurt our fight against people that want to kill us, so be it.

Sleep well tonight.

jAZ
06-28-2006, 09:29 PM
If you've got no problemo with intentionally and globally pointing out public records that can and maybe will hurt our fight against people that want to kill us, so be it.

Sleep well tonight.
Seems like you must have a lot of animus toward the WH and Congress for hyping this activity over the last 4 years at the expese of "national security".

WoodDraw
06-28-2006, 09:36 PM
If you've got no problemo with intentionally and globally pointing out public records that can and maybe will hurt our fight against people that want to kill us, so be it.

Sleep well tonight.

At what point did the people that merit a global war and intelligence effort to stop their activities become bumbling idiots? What logical progression arives at the belief that these people don't already know we are tracking their finances?

Donger
06-28-2006, 09:41 PM
Seems like you must have a lot of animus toward the WH and Congress for hyping this activity over the last 4 years at the expese of "national security".

No. I have a problem with newspapers intentionally pointing out and promoting specifics, in real-time, of our fight against our enemies (e.g., our tactics in this war).

Donger
06-28-2006, 09:43 PM
At what point did the people that merit a global war and intelligence effort to stop their activities become bumbling idiots? What logical progression arives at the belief that these people don't already know we are tracking their finances?

They may well have known. The point is not to f*cking broadcast it. I'm sure the Germans knew we were trying to break ULTRA, but I don't recall a US newspaper broadcasting the details of that effort.

jAZ
06-28-2006, 09:43 PM
No. I have a problem with newspapers intentionally pointing out and promoting specifics, in real-time, of our fight against our enemies (e.g., our tactics in this war).
Got it...

(Your favored) Politicians scoring political points at the expense of national security = GOOD

Newspapers reporting what the politicians exposed repeatedly for 4 years = BAD

Donger
06-28-2006, 09:45 PM
Got it...

Politicians scoring political points at the expense of national security = GOOD

Newspapers reporting what the politicians exposed repeatedly for 4 years = BAD

Specifics, jAZ. If our goverment pointed out specifics that these articles did, I'd change my tune.

Did they?

Cochise
06-28-2006, 09:48 PM
FWIW many have thought the times sucked long before this.

jAZ
06-28-2006, 10:53 PM
Keith Olbermann goes Daily Show by exposing the stupidity of the attacks on the NYTimes.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/msnbc_ko_nyt_swift_leak_060628a_320x240.wmv

jAZ
06-28-2006, 10:55 PM
In the video above, Norah O'Donnell points out that this whole this is a coordinated polititical stunt to excite the base by attacking the media and in particular the NYTimes.

Donger
06-28-2006, 11:07 PM
In the video above, Norah O'Donnell points out that this whole this is basically a polititical stunt to excite the base by attacking the media and in particular the NYTimes.

I guess I missed the part where Bush mentioned SWIFT specifically, which is my point.

It's amazing to me that this is even an issue.

We are at war. Any specific help that a newspaper or anyone else provides them is grotesque. Did the NY Times KNOW that al Qaeda was NOT aware of SWIFT? If so, they aided the enemy.

Ultra Peanut
06-29-2006, 04:32 AM
the new york times are so goddamn terrorists

patteeu
06-29-2006, 07:25 AM
The New York Times story included details that have never been disclosed.

Chief Henry
06-29-2006, 08:16 AM
No. I have a problem with newspapers intentionally pointing out and promoting specifics, in real-time, of our fight against our enemies (e.g., our tactics in this war).




REP

Baby Lee
06-29-2006, 08:45 AM
Got it...

(Your favored) Politicians scoring political points at the expense of national security = GOOD

Newspapers reporting what the politicians exposed repeatedly for 4 years = BAD
It has to be soooo edifying to take EVERY THING the admin does and sit down, concentrate REAL HARD, and ask . . . "OK, how do I present this to my little corner of the world as OUTRAGEOUS and DEPLORABLE??"

Jesus, the difference between the WH remarks and the Times' is the difference between Geraldo saying "I'm here in Iraq" [duh!!], and drawing a map in the sand where the troop were and where they were soon heading.

the Talking Can
06-29-2006, 08:46 AM
Here's the SWIFT website: SWIFT - the great secret (http://www.swift.com/)

Here's where SWIFT discusses their involvement in fighting crime:

"2. Cooperation - SWIFT has a history of cooperating in good faith with authorities such as central banks, treasury departments, law enforcement agencies and appropriate international organisations, such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF*), in their efforts to combat abuse of the financial system for illegal activities."


SWIFT - the big secret (http://www.swift.com/index.cfm?item_id=6149)

The Financial Action Task Force (FATF) also has a website:

"The FATF is an inter-governmental body whose purpose is the development and promotion of national and international policies to combat money laundering and terrorist financing."

FATF - the big secret (http://www.fatf-gafi.org/pages/0,2966,en_32250379_32235720_1_1_1_1_1,00.html)

On their website you can find a pdf tited "FATF will explore the symbiotic relationship among corruption, money laundering and terrorist financing"
another big secret (http://www.fatf-gafi.org/dataoecd/13/36/35497629.pdf)

They also have a page where they discuss "Nine Special Recommendations on Terrorist Financing"
the great big secret (http://www.fatf-gafi.org/document/9/0,2340,en_32250379_32236920_34032073_1_1_1_1,00.html)

Recognising the vital importance of taking action to combat the financing of terrorism, the FATF has agreed these Recommendations, which, when combined with the FATF Forty Recommendations on money laundering, set out the basic framework to detect, prevent and suppress the financing of terrorism and terrorist acts. For further information on the Special Recommendations as related to the self-assessment process, see the Guidance Notes.

I. Ratification and implementation of UN instruments

Each country should take immediate steps to ratify and to implement fully the 1999 United Nations International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.

Countries should also immediately implement the United Nations resolutions relating to the prevention and suppression of the financing of terrorist acts, particularly United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373.

II. Criminalising the financing of terrorism and associated money laundering

Each country should criminalise the financing of terrorism, terrorist acts and terrorist organisations. Countries should ensure that such offences are designated as money laundering predicate offences.(See Interpretative Note)

III. Freezing and confiscating terrorist assets

Each country should implement measures to freeze without delay funds or other assets of terrorists, those who finance terrorism and terrorist organisations in accordance with the United Nations resolutions relating to the prevention and suppression of the financing of terrorist acts.

Each country should also adopt and implement measures, including legislative ones, which would enable the competent authorities to seize and confiscate property that is the proceeds of, or used in, or intended or allocated for use in, the financing of terrorism, terrorist acts or terrorist organisations. (See Interpretative Note and Best Practices Paper)

IV. Reporting suspicious transactions related to terrorism

If financial institutions, or other businesses or entities subject to anti-money laundering obligations, suspect or have reasonable grounds to suspect that funds are linked or related to, or are to be used for terrorism, terrorist acts or by terrorist organisations, they should be required to report promptly their suspicions to the competent authorities.

V. International co-operation

Each country should afford another country, on the basis of a treaty, arrangement or other mechanism for mutual legal assistance or information exchange, the greatest possible measure of assistance in connection with criminal, civil enforcement, and administrative investigations, inquiries and proceedings relating to the financing of terrorism, terrorist acts and terrorist organisations.

Countries should also take all possible measures to ensure that they do not provide safe havens for individuals charged with the financing of terrorism, terrorist acts or terrorist organisations, and should have procedures in place to extradite, where possible, such individuals.

VI. Alternative remittance

Each country should take measures to ensure that persons or legal entities, including agents, that provide a service for the transmission of money or value, including transmission through an informal money or value transfer system or network, should be licensed or registered and subject to all the FATF Recommendations that apply to banks and non-bank financial institutions. Each country should ensure that persons or legal entities that carry out this service illegally are subject to administrative, civil or criminal sanctions.
(See Interpretative Note and Best Practices Paper)

VII. Wire transfers

Countries should take measures to require financial institutions, including money remitters, to include accurate and meaningful originator information (name, address and account number) on funds transfers and related messages that are sent, and the information should remain with the transfer or related message through the payment chain.

Countries should take measures to ensure that financial institutions, including money remitters, conduct enhanced scrutiny of and monitor for suspicious activity funds transfers which do not contain complete originator information (name, address and account number).
(See Interpretative Note)

VIII. Non-profit organisations

Countries should review the adequacy of laws and regulations that relate to entities that can be abused for the financing of terrorism. Non-profit organisations are particularly vulnerable, and countries should ensure that they cannot be misused:

by terrorist organisations posing as legitimate entities;

to exploit legitimate entities as conduits for terrorist financing, including for the purpose of escaping asset freezing measures; and

to conceal or obscure the clandestine diversion of funds intended for legitimate purposes to terrorist organisations.
(See Best Practices Paper)

IX. Cash couriers

Countries should have measures in place to detect the physical cross-border transportation
of currency and bearer negotiable instruments, including a declaration system or other
disclosure obligation.

Countries should ensure that their competent authorities have the legal authority to stop or
restrain currency or bearer negotiable instruments that are suspected to be related to
terrorist financing or money laundering, or that are falsely declared or disclosed.

Countries should ensure that effective, proportionate and dissuasive sanctions are available
to deal with persons who make false declaration(s) or disclosure(s). In cases where the
currency or bearer negotiable instruments are related to terrorist financing or money
laundering, countries should also adopt measures, including legislative ones consistent with
Recommendation 3 and Special Recommendation III, which would enable the confiscation of
such currency or instruments.
(See Interpretative Note and Best Practices Paper)

Note:
With the adoption of Special Recommendation IX, the FATF now deletes paragraph 19(a) of
Recommendation 19 and the Interpretative Note to Recommendation 19 in order to ensure internal consistency amongst the FATF Recommendations. The modified text of recommendation 19 reads as follows:
Recommendation 19
Countries should consider the feasibility and utility of a system where banks and other
financial institutions and intermediaries would report all domestic and international currency
transactions above a fixed amount, to a national central agency with a computerised data
base, available to competent authorities for use in money laundering or terrorist financing
cases, subject to strict safeguards to ensure proper use of the information.

the Talking Can
06-29-2006, 08:50 AM
credit here (http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/)


this whole episode is hilarious...newspapers, movie directors, bananas, condoms...all are held to a standard of fake outrage and faux-principles that have yet to be aimed at the Commander in Chief...

you people are something else, really...Schiavo part Duh...

jiveturkey
06-29-2006, 09:01 AM
BURN THE CAN!!! :fire:

the Talking Can
06-30-2006, 09:51 AM
so, I guess the 48 hour rule on fake outrage is in effect....

Cochise
06-30-2006, 09:52 AM
It has to be soooo edifying to take EVERY THING the admin does and sit down, concentrate REAL HARD, and ask . . . "OK, how do I present this to my little corner of the world as OUTRAGEOUS and DEPLORABLE??"

Exactly! The mentality could not be summarized any better.

FringeNC
06-30-2006, 12:41 PM
Look, you lefties can't have it both ways. Either it was news or it wasn't. Why was the article even written if it wasn't NEWS?

One of your lefty heroes, the CIA guy who wrote Imperial Hubris, said leaks like this devastate our ability to work with our allies.

The NY Times did this purposefully to embarras Bush in front of our allies, and make it harder for allies to work with us, and put heat on helpful governments who have anti-American populations.