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View Full Version : When political bickering and bulletin board rivalries go WAAY too far...


jAZ
07-06-2006, 09:15 AM
So I had heard name Andy Stephenson mentioned on DemocraticUnderground.com, and had heard something about needing surgery and eventually dying. I also knew that there was obviously a board and ideological rivialry between DU and FreeRepublic.com, which often spilled over into the "real world" as both boards are filled with political activists.

I take it that (much like what might happen to a favorite friend/poster on ChiefsPlanet) Andy was able to raise money for his surgery with the help of DU and their posters.

Anyway, that's about all that I knew until I read this thread/post. Needless to say, this is some fugged up shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1575432

So, what really happened with Andy Stephenson, PayPal, and Johns Hopkins?

I am posting this separately from the thread about remembering Andy Stephenson because I do not want to have the bad stuff that happened surrounding his fundraiser to get in the way of the memories, but I really think this story needs to be on the record. At the time all of this was going down, nobody who was posting or writing about this had all of the details, and in fact it took some time for me to ask enough people the right questions to put this together, but this is the story as I understand it;

On May 12th, 2005, Andy arrived at Johns Hopkins Hospital where his operation was scheduled for his his intake processing. At this time a snag developed.

Though Johns Hopkins had been sent and signed for the entire $50,000, the express envelope containing the final payment was lost on the very cluttered desk of the mail room supervisor.

Because his "conservative" critics had contacted the hospital alleging fraud, they refused to believe Andy that the remaining money had been sent. They WOULD have believed him had he been able to get into his PayPal account to prove that he had collected and recently withdrawn the funds, but allegations of fraud had also reached PayPal, prompting them to freeze the account, and Andy could not prove to Johns Hopkins that he had indeed raised the necessary funds. His surgery slot was allowed to slip, and by the time the express envelope was found in the mail room late on the 13th of May, the slot had gone to another patient.

Would having the surgery on time have saved Andy's life? Maybe. He had a type of pancreatic cancer that few people survive, but he also had the very best surgeon, and medical imaging prior to his first surgery date indicated that the tumor was encapsulated and had not spread throughout his lymphatic system. This was no longer the case by the time the surgery was finally performed, and biopsy indicated that metastasis had indeed occurred. The strokes that killed Andy were caused by cancer cells floating freely in his bloodstream blocking blood vessels in his brain. Had Andy received his surgery on time, he would almost certainly have lived longer, and he might have had a fighting chance at a cure.

There is a lot more to tell, and some day I shall tell it, but for now it is enough to clear up the one issue that seems to have caused the most confusion, and to lay it to rest before the anniversary of my friend's death.

jAZ
07-06-2006, 09:19 AM
To see how far this thing went, I searched "scamdy" (apparently a cute little nickname given to the guy who died) in Google.

It's kinda distrubing...

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=TSHA,TSHA:2005-19,TSHA:en&q=scamdy

SNR
07-06-2006, 09:20 AM
FreeRepublic.com lied, people died :shrug:

Amnorix
07-06-2006, 09:21 AM
That's crazy. Absolutely crazy.

jspchief
07-06-2006, 09:23 AM
FreeRepublic.com lied, people died :shrug: ROFLROFL

Damn, you're quick.

Donger
07-06-2006, 09:24 AM
So I had heard name Andy Stephenson mentioned on DemocraticUnderground.com, and had heard something about needing surgery and eventually dying. I also knew that there was obviously a board and ideological rivialry between DU and FreeRepublic.com, which often spilled over into the "real world" as both boards are filled with political activists.

I take it that (much like what might happen to a favorite friend/poster on ChiefsPlanet) Andy was able to raise money for his surgery with the help of DU and their posters.

Anyway, that's about all that I knew until I read this thread/post. Needless to say, this is some fugged up shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1575432

So, what really happened with Andy Stephenson, PayPal, and Johns Hopkins?

I am posting this separately from the thread about remembering Andy Stephenson because I do not want to have the bad stuff that happened surrounding his fundraiser to get in the way of the memories, but I really think this story needs to be on the record. At the time all of this was going down, nobody who was posting or writing about this had all of the details, and in fact it took some time for me to ask enough people the right questions to put this together, but this is the story as I understand it;

On May 12th, 2005, Andy arrived at Johns Hopkins Hospital where his operation was scheduled for his his intake processing. At this time a snag developed.

Though Johns Hopkins had been sent and signed for the entire $50,000, the express envelope containing the final payment was lost on the very cluttered desk of the mail room supervisor.

Because his "conservative" critics had contacted the hospital alleging fraud, they refused to believe Andy that the remaining money had been sent. They WOULD have believed him had he been able to get into his PayPal account to prove that he had collected and recently withdrawn the funds, but allegations of fraud had also reached PayPal, prompting them to freeze the account, and Andy could not prove to Johns Hopkins that he had indeed raised the necessary funds. His surgery slot was allowed to slip, and by the time the express envelope was found in the mail room late on the 13th of May, the slot had gone to another patient.

Would having the surgery on time have saved Andy's life? Maybe. He had a type of pancreatic cancer that few people survive, but he also had the very best surgeon, and medical imaging prior to his first surgery date indicated that the tumor was encapsulated and had not spread throughout his lymphatic system. This was no longer the case by the time the surgery was finally performed, and biopsy indicated that metastasis had indeed occurred. The strokes that killed Andy were caused by cancer cells floating freely in his bloodstream blocking blood vessels in his brain. Had Andy received his surgery on time, he would almost certainly have lived longer, and he might have had a fighting chance at a cure.

There is a lot more to tell, and some day I shall tell it, but for now it is enough to clear up the one issue that seems to have caused the most confusion, and to lay it to rest before the anniversary of my friend's death.



Interesting. From what I've read, that's not an accurate depiction of reality.

Not that that's surprising considering the source.

Brock
07-06-2006, 09:24 AM
(much like what might happen to a favorite friend/poster on ChiefsPlanet) Andy was able to raise money for his surgery with the help of DU and their posters.

What's that about?

Iowanian
07-06-2006, 09:24 AM
I've never heard of a hospital, refusing to perform an operation because you couldn't pay cash, upfront.

It smells of Alot of bullshit.

I fail to see the relevance here, other than you spending so much time, there.

no one with pancreatic cancer that spreads to the lymph system ever passes away....

htismaqe
07-06-2006, 09:25 AM
What's that about?

I think he's talking about Frankie...

Brock
07-06-2006, 09:30 AM
I think he's talking about Frankie...

I hadn't heard of any fundraising. :hmmm:

jAZ
07-06-2006, 09:31 AM
What's that about?
I didn't mean it to be a specific reference. Just that we have a very real community here where we often support causes and people both online and off. That's all.

Baby Lee
07-06-2006, 09:31 AM
I think he's talking about Frankie...
I think he was referring more to the general capability of a BB community to work together and help someone out who is in need.
That wasn't the case w/Frankie. I mean, he was in need of good wishes, but not funds.

jAZ
07-06-2006, 09:32 AM
I think he's talking about Frankie...
Frankie + 37Forever maybe. Again, it wasn't meant to be a specific reference.

Cochise
07-06-2006, 09:36 AM
I've never heard of a hospital, refusing to perform an operation because you couldn't pay cash, upfront.

It smells of Alot of bullshit.

I was thinking that too.

I find the claim that some hospital wouldn't perform potentially life saving surgery over some kind of a clerical error to be extremely suspect.

Iowanian
07-06-2006, 09:44 AM
I don't care for Frankie as a poster, but don't wish him anything other than well in his recovery.

If there were a fundraiser on his behalf, I would however raise a ruckus. I'd post a very specific reason.

alanm
07-06-2006, 09:49 AM
I don't get this story at all. My Dad died of Pancreatic cancer. What kind of surgery were they going to preform? A pancrea transplant? I may be out of the medical loop but I didn't think that was possible. :hmmm:
Once you get pancreatic cancer you're meat on a slab.

BIG_DADDY
07-06-2006, 09:52 AM
FreeRepublic.com lied, people died :shrug: Rep

memyselfI
07-06-2006, 09:55 AM
I don't care for Frankie as a poster, but don't wish him anything other than well in his recovery.

If there were a fundraiser on his behalf, I would however raise a ruckus. I'd post a very specific reason.

I am not crazy about you or your posting...

but if you were dying and needed my help, and that of this community, I would do what I can even if it were only $20.00 it would still be something to help you in your fight. I feel that for every person on this board. Even those I have on ignore...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say about a fundraiser and ruckus and reason but I'd sure love to hear it.

BIG_DADDY
07-06-2006, 09:57 AM
Truth be known the world would be a better place if most of the people at the DU experienced spontaneous human combustion.

I have not idea about the free republic I have never been there.

Donger
07-06-2006, 10:04 AM
Truth be known the world would be a better place if most of the people at the DU experienced spontaneous human combustion.

I have not idea about the free republic I have never been there.

FreeRepublic is, IMO, just as bad as DU. I posted there for many years, starting back in 1997, IIRC. I stopped posting (and visiting) there for the same reason I stopped listening to Rush: it was boring. There was no discussion of differing views, at least diametrically opposing views.

BIG_DADDY
07-06-2006, 10:17 AM
FreeRepublic is, IMO, just as bad as DU. I posted there for many years, starting back in 1997, IIRC. I stopped posting (and visiting) there for the same reason I stopped listening to Rush: it was boring. There was no discussion of differing views, at least diametrically opposing views.

Sounds like a good match. Lets set them both up with bats and see who wins.

Nightwish
07-06-2006, 10:18 AM
I find the claim that some hospital wouldn't perform potentially life saving surgery over some kind of a clerical error to be extremely suspect.
It does happen, though not in all hospitals. Depends on the hospital and its internal policies. Some will deny you surgery, life-saving or otherwise, if you don't have insurance and can't raise the cash. That happened to my cousin's husband at a hospital in Columbia (not sure if it was the university hospital or a different one). He didn't die, because they were able to get him to another hospital that would perform the surgery, but it was all pretty f'd up. I don't know how much of this DU story is true, but if there is an unbelievable element to the story, it isn't the part about the hospital refusing surgery without insurance or payment up front.

jspchief
07-06-2006, 10:18 AM
FreeRepublic is, IMO, just as bad as DU. I posted there for many years, starting back in 1997, IIRC. I stopped posting (and visiting) there for the same reason I stopped listening to Rush: it was boring. There was no discussion of differing views, at least diametrically opposing views.It's the same thing that's wrong with 99% of political discussion. It's not discussion at all.

memyselfI
07-06-2006, 10:39 AM
FreeRepublic is, IMO, just as bad as DU. I posted there for many years, starting back in 1997, IIRC. I stopped posting (and visiting) there for the same reason I stopped listening to Rush: it was boring. There was no discussion of differing views, at least diametrically opposing views.

Free Republic is really quite entertaining. I read it almost every day. Nothing reinforces and reaffirms my views like that forum does.

Donger
07-06-2006, 10:44 AM
Free Republic is really quite entertaining. I read it almost every day. Nothing reinforces and reaffirms my views like that forum does.

Of course you do. That doesn't surprise me at all.

Baby Lee
07-06-2006, 11:00 AM
Free Republic is really quite entertaining. I read it almost every day. Nothing reinforces and reaffirms my views like that forum does.
Diddling your frontal cortex, eh?

banyon
07-06-2006, 01:32 PM
I've never heard of a hospital, refusing to perform an operation because you couldn't pay cash, upfront.

It smells of Alot of bullshit.

I fail to see the relevance here, other than you spending so much time, there.

no one with pancreatic cancer that spreads to the lymph system ever passes away....

I don't know, but from what I read I didn't think that they were in an ER. Sounds like they were on a placement list with a highly certified expert in pancreatic cancer who probably only treats a small number of people per year.

Pitt Gorilla
07-06-2006, 01:35 PM
Diddling your frontal cortex, eh?That's hot.

WilliamTheIrish
07-06-2006, 02:58 PM
but this is the story as I understand it;


And that's where I stop believing the story.


Makes for good fiction, though.

Cochise
07-06-2006, 03:04 PM
And that's where I stop believing the story.


Makes for good fiction, though.

Freepers - not only are they peepee-licking doodiehead poopyfaces, but also - MURDERERS!!!!

(dramatic chord)

Baby Lee
07-06-2006, 03:21 PM
Freepers - not only are they peepee-licking doodiehead poopyfaces, but also - MURDERERS!!!!

(dramatic chord)
Is there a discernable difference between the doody on their head and the poopy on their face?

WilliamTheIrish
07-06-2006, 06:01 PM
Diddling your frontal cortex, eh?

ROFL

How in the hell did I miss this? That's....art.

Nightwish
07-06-2006, 06:57 PM
I will say this much: I don't know if the story is real, or if it happened the way it was described in the DU post. But if it did, I firmly believe that those who fraudulently cried "fraud," and contributed in that way to his being denied medical care, should face serious criminal charges.

I just figured that needed to be said, since all the right-wingers on here are bending over backwards to avoid saying it.

WilliamTheIrish
07-06-2006, 07:25 PM
I will say this much: I don't know if the story is real, .

Again, I stopped right there...

Mosbonian
07-08-2006, 04:52 PM
That happened to my cousin's husband at a hospital in Columbia (not sure if it was the university hospital or a different one). He didn't die, because they were able to get him to another hospital that would perform the surgery, but it was all pretty f'd up.

I haven't lived here as long or have the connections that someone like Pitt Gorilla probably has here in Tiger Town, but I'd be surprised at someone being turned away from either University or Boone. Now, when it comes to the Ellis Fischel Cancer Center here in town, I have no idea as to how their admission policies work.

mmaddog
*******

Nightwish
07-08-2006, 05:51 PM
I haven't lived here as long or have the connections that someone like Pitt Gorilla probably has here in Tiger Town, but I'd be surprised at someone being turned away from either University or Boone. Now, when it comes to the Ellis Fischel Cancer Center here in town, I have no idea as to how their admission policies work.

mmaddog
*******
It depends on the type of treatment needed. Contrary to popular belief, hospitals are not required to provide life-saving treatment to patients regardless of their insurance or ability to pay. They are required, I believe, to provide basic emergency services, but more complicated procedures are another matter. If a person comes into a hospital and requires a heart transplant, for instance, in order to survive, but is indigent and has no insurance, the hospital is not required to provide that.

Mosbonian
07-08-2006, 09:11 PM
It depends on the type of treatment needed. Contrary to popular belief, hospitals are not required to provide life-saving treatment to patients regardless of their insurance or ability to pay. They are required, I believe, to provide basic emergency services, but more complicated procedures are another matter. If a person comes into a hospital and requires a heart transplant, for instance, in order to survive, but is indigent and has no insurance, the hospital is not required to provide that.

Once again, I am not by any means an authority...

It has been my experience that the hospitals are required to, at the very minimum, stabilize the patient in any life-threatening situation, and then assess the ability to transfer to a hospital that is required to accept patients regardless of ability to pay.

Considering the fact that University Hospital is tied to MU, (a state supported University) I would find it hard to believe that they turned away anyone.


mmaddog
*******

Nightwish
07-09-2006, 01:00 AM
Considering the fact that University Hospital is tied to MU, (a state supported University) I would find it hard to believe that they turned away anyone.

Like I said, I don't know if it was University Hospital or another one, I just know it was in the Columbia area.

Rausch
07-09-2006, 03:19 AM
Considering the fact that University Hospital is tied to MU, (a state supported University) I would find it hard to believe that they turned away anyone.


mmaddog
*******

I wouldn't. My mother use to work there.

When an employee decided to run for a local office they threatened him. Run against Guy X and we'll have to let you go.

Guy X donates a $#itpot of money there.

Considering how much money hospitals lose to fraud/illegals/scams and even ligitimate malpractice I wouldn't be shocked at all to hear them go the extra mile to prevent a suspected scam.

It sucks, and the fuqtard responsible for this whole mess deserves no less than ass cancer...

Baby Lee
07-09-2006, 08:21 AM
When political bickering and bulletin board rivalries go WAAY too far...
Anything on the Deborah Frisch matter?

patteeu
07-09-2006, 08:57 AM
It depends on the type of treatment needed. Contrary to popular belief, hospitals are not required to provide life-saving treatment to patients regardless of their insurance or ability to pay. They are required, I believe, to provide basic emergency services, but more complicated procedures are another matter. If a person comes into a hospital and requires a heart transplant, for instance, in order to survive, but is indigent and has no insurance, the hospital is not required to provide that.

I agree with you on this one. I think you'd have a real hard time finding a hospital/surgeon who'd agree to do a low-probability-of-success surgery for an advanced cancer patient who didn't have a means to pay. Hell, you might even have a hard time finding anyone to do it if you had the cash in hand in many cases. It wouldn't surprise me if this guy needed to raise cash because his insurance wouldn't cover a surgery like this, but I didn't read the links so maybe all of that is explained.

Baby Lee
07-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Anything on the Deborah Frisch matter?
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/07/10/frisch