Giuliani considering 2008 presidential run

[Donger]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060713/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani;_ylt=Augy3PO0NszB.eBi8jM_S0Cs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-

BALTIMORE - Former New York City mayor Rudolph Giuliani said he is "seriously considering" a run for president in 2008. But he reiterated, as he has in many campaign-style appearances, that he was focused on the 2006 midterm elections. He said he would continue to travel the country to gauge the breadth of his support and his ability to raise the money needed for a presidential bid.

"Eventually, when you make the decision, you have to go through a kind of soul-searching about how much you think you can bring to it," Giuliani said.

Giuliani and Maryland Gov. Robert Ehrlich hailed each other as fellow moderates Wednesday, and Giuliani said Ehrlich has provided the kind of leadership that states around the country need.

Speaking to reporters at a fundraiser for Ehrlich's re-election bid, Giuliani said he has been a longtime supporter of Ehrlich and admires his commitment to fiscal discipline.

"This is the kind of governor we need throughout the country," Giuliani said. "There are a lot of states that need this kind of leadership."

Without specifically addressing Giuliani's presidential ambitions, Ehrlich said the former mayor would be a very strong candidate if he were ever on the ballot in Maryland.

"Philosophically, his views are in the mainstream of where Maryland is," Ehrlich said. "Clearly, there's a lot of compatibility with my views on a variety of issues."

With supporters paying $4,000 a ticket, Wednesday's reception at a downtown Baltimore hotel collected at least $500,000 for Ehrlich's campaign. Donors posed for pictures with Giuliani and the governor.

The event capped a three-day fundraising blitz that also brought Giuliani to Ohio, Arkansas, Illinois and Pennsylvania.

He's following a path typically trod by potential candidates, who often campaign for their party's nominees or make appearances in states critical to a presidential bid. Pennsylvania, Illinois and Ohio are considered key battleground states in 2008.

In Maryland, where Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1, Ehrlich is running what appears to be a tight race against Democrat Martin O'Malley, the popular mayor of Baltimore.

Ehrlich and Giuliani disputed a claim by O'Malley's campaign spokesman that they took different positions on Dubai's aborted bid to run six U.S. ports, including Baltimore's. Both said they thought the deal had the potential to make U.S. ports safer, but that it was handled the wrong way politically by the Bush administration.

Giuliani needled the mayor for bringing up the Dubai ports deal.

"I think that's been over for about six months now," Giuliani said, drawing laughter from the crowd. "I would think for the people of Maryland, what you can do about your schools, what you can do about the kind of crime that's in Baltimore, I would think that maybe a little more focus on that might help."

Giuliani is notable for breaking with GOP orthodoxy on many issues, including abortion rights and gay rights, both of which he supports. Ehrlich also has positioned himself as a moderate on such issues, bolstering his efforts to court Democrats much as Giuliani did in New York.

"You can't get elected in New York City nor in Maryland without doing that," said Bo Harmon, Ehrlich's campaign manager.

Giuliani acknowledged that in a presidential bid, he would have to rally supporters in states where voters have more conservative leanings. He believes, though, that he could have a broad appeal.

"Sure, there are divisions between red states and blue states, but Americans are more similar than they are different," Giuliani said.

[Brock]

That guy would annihilate all opposition.

[dirk digler]

That guy would annihilate all opposition.

I don't know wasn't he the one that quit the race because he knew Hillary was going to kick his ass in his own home state?

[Brock]

I don't know wasn't he the one that quit the race because he knew Hillary was going to kick his ass in his own home state?

When was that again? Did any major historical events take place after that with Giuliani at the center of it?

[Donger]

I don't know wasn't he the one that quit the race because he knew Hillary was going to kick his ass in his own home state?

He had prostate cancer, and was going through a marital infidelity issue.

[dirk digler]

When was that again? Did any major historical events take place after that with Giuliani at the center of it?

Hey I was just asking.. :)

[oldandslow]

That guy would annihilate all opposition.

He will not win a single primary below the mason dixon line.

[Brock]

He will not win a single primary below the mason dixon line.

You are nuts. But then, I already knew that.

[dirk digler]

He had prostate cancer, and was going through a marital infidelity issue.

Likely excuse.. ;)

So it will be the cheater vs the cheatee..

[recxjake]

Guilani/ Jeb Bush 2008.... The Northeast, the South.... another Republican victory

[oldandslow]

You are nuts. But then, I already knew that.

Right...I just keep remembering the Vince Young prediction...

A pro-choice candidate winning in the south...

and you call me nuts.

[Baby Lee]

He will not win a single primary below the mason dixon line.
That's it, root for your stereotyping to knock a quality candidate who isn't on your team.

Don't understand the mentality.

Though he dealt himself a setback with Hadji-gate last week, I'm not rooting for Biden to be too hawkish to survive the Dem primaries.

Yeah!! We get to go against Hillary!!

[oldandslow]

BL

I am not stereotyping anything...

Can you give me a legitimate reason to believe a pro-choice candidate would win in the south????

[dirk digler]

You are nuts. But then, I already knew that.

Isn't he pro-abortion and for gay-rights?

[Brock]

Right...I just keep remembering the Vince Young prediction...

A pro-choice candidate winning in the south...

and you call me nuts.

Yeah. Because Vince Young is relevant to this discussion.

The GOP couldn't ask for more of an automatic win, and you know it. You just don't want to admit it.

[Baby Lee]

BL

I am not stereotyping anything...

Can you give me a legitimate reason to believe a pro-choice candidate would win in the south????
The person[s] he's up against, primary OR general?

[oldandslow]

Yeah. Because Vince Young is relevant to this discussion.

The GOP couldn't ask for more of an automatic win, and you know it. You just don't want to admit it.

That is total BS. The GOP might win a General with Rudy. Problem is - he will never be nominated.

Rudy will get the John McCain treatment the minute he hits SC.

[dirk digler]

You think the Christian Right is going to support someone who is for gay-rights and pro-choice?

ROFL

No really..

ROFL

[oldandslow]

The person[s] he's up against, primary OR general?

No I believe he would beat a dem in the south (unless it was Ben Nelson or someone like that). He just can't beat a conservative repub in the primaries in the south.

[Brock]

That is total BS. The GOP might win a General with Rudy. Problem is - he will never be nominated.

Rudy will get the John McCain treatment the minute he hits SC.

Rudy is un-****able. You squat and watch.

And let me know when that housing bubble bursts, would you?

[Baby Lee]

That is total BS. The GOP might win a General with Rudy. Problem is - he will never be nominated.

Rudy will get the John McCain treatment the minute he hits SC.
McCain didn't lose SC over dirty tactics.
McCain lost SC because he moaned about dirty tactics and W bitchslapped him with a dirty tactics flyer FROM MCCAIN'S SIDE picked up in the parking lot of the debate.

[Baby Lee]

No I believe he would beat a dem in the south (unless it was Ben Nelson or someone like that). He just can't beat a conservative repub in the primaries in the south.
Don't posit that he just won't get support. Tell us who will beat him and why.

[oldandslow]

Rudy is un-****able. You squat and watch.

And let me know when that housing bubble bursts, would you?

Dirk had it right. You know very little about politics if you think a pro-choice, pro gay marriage person is going to win a republican primary in South Carolina or Mississippi or Texas or Alabama....

BTW - the housing market is slowing down. Oil goes up, inflation rises, feds pump up interest rates, fewer houses sell...

[Brock]

Dirk had it right. You know very little about politics if you think a pro-choice, pro gay marriage person is going to win a republican primary in South Carolina or Mississippi or Texas or Alabama....

BTW - the housing market is slowing down. Oil goes up, inflation rises, feds pump up interest rates, fewer houses sell...

Riiiiight. Feel free to bookmark this thread. Move in from the sticks and stop watching cable news all night. You'll have a more rounded perspective.

[recxjake]

You dont have to win primarys in those states..... You need Iowa and New Hampshire... he will win those and will win the white house easily with Jeb Bush as V.P.

[oldandslow]

Don't posit that he just won't get support. Tell us who will beat him and why.

Allen, McCain, Frist, hell probably Brownback would beat him in the south.

I am surprised you don't see that...

Even tho I am on the other side of the fence on many issues, I know southern folks are not voting for a pro-choice candidate in a primary if they have a choice.

[dirk digler]

Riiiiight. Feel free to bookmark this thread.

Brock so honestly do you think that the Christian Right that OWNS the Republican party will support someone who is for gay marriage and pro-choice?

I like Rudy but I don't think his chances are very good in the primaries anyway.

[Brock]

You dont have to win primarys in those states..... You need Iowa and New Hampshire... he will win those and will win the white house easily with Jeb Bush as V.P.


Along with NY and California. An easy, easy win.

[Brock]

Christian Right that OWNS the Republican party

You have no perspective at all if you believe this, and are unworthy of further argument.

[dirk digler]

You dont have to win primarys in those states..... You need Iowa and New Hampshire... he will win those and will win the white house easily with Jeb Bush as V.P.

If Jeb Bush runs it will be an automatic loss. No one wants another bush anywhere near the WH anytime soon.

[Baby Lee]

Allen, McCain, Frist, hell probably Brownback would beat him in the south.

I am surprised you don't see that...

Even tho I am on the other side of the fence on many issues, I know southern folks are not voting for a pro-choice candidate in a primary if they have a choice.
Allen, maybe, if he has momentum already.
McCain can't beat W, but he can thump Guiliani? I get the feeling you don't know much about Guiliani outside of his pro-choice stance.
Frist ain't beating nuttin.

[htismaqe]

Riiiiight. Feel free to bookmark this thread. Move in from the sticks and stop watching cable news all night. You'll have a more rounded perspective.

Give him a break.

He's a liberal who lives in possibly the most uptight, conservative state in the US.

Seriously, South Dakota is ****ed up, so I can understand why he's so bitter.

[dirk digler]

You have no perspective at all if you believe this, and are unworthy of further argument.

Brock you know damn well that the Christian Right controls the party because that is where alot of the money comes from.

If i am wrong please tell me.

You still didn't answer my question.

[recxjake]

If Jeb Bush runs it will be an automatic loss. No one wants another bush anywhere near the WH anytime soon.

Jeb Bush has a great approval ratings in Florida....

[oldandslow]

Riiiiight. Feel free to bookmark this thread. Move in from the sticks and stop watching cable news all night. You'll have a more rounded perspective.


Oh, I will. I will keep it right next to the Young prediction.

[htismaqe]

Brock so honestly do you think that the Christian Right that OWNS the Republican party will support someone who is for gay marriage and pro-choice?

I like Rudy but I don't think his chances are very good in the primaries anyway.

The Christian Right does NOT OWN the Republican Party. If anything the Republicans own them. Who else are they going to vote for? At WORST, they stay home on Super Tuesday and don't vote.

[Baby Lee]

Give him a break.

He's a liberal who lives in possibly the most uptight, conservative state in the US.

Seriously, South Dakota is ****ed up, so I can understand why he's so bitter.
The day I hear serious talk about Guiliani failing with 'the primary right' from someone other than the left will be the first.

[dirk digler]

Jeb Bush has a great approval ratings in Florida....

ROFL

What about the other 49 states?

Personally I would like to see some variety I mean we have had 16 years of Bush/Clinton.

[oldandslow]

'mage - so do you think Rudy wins in the south???

[dirk digler]

The Christian Right does NOT OWN the Republican Party. If anything the Republicans own them. Who else are they going to vote for? At WORST, they stay home on Super Tuesday and don't vote.

Ok who has the most influence in the Republican party?

[Baby Lee]

'mage - so do you think Rudy wins in the south???
If he mounts a serious and devoted campaign, I think he puts the discussion in the primaries on leadership and electability and wins enough to get the nom, then cleans up in the general.

[oldandslow]

The Christian Right does NOT OWN the Republican Party. If anything the Republicans own them. Who else are they going to vote for? At WORST, they stay home on Super Tuesday and don't vote.

But they WILL have a choice...

Allen, Frist, Brownback....

[Baby Lee]

Ok who has the most influence in the Republican party?
The Bushron CheneyBurton Power Quo, . . duh!

[htismaqe]

Brock you know damn well that the Christian Right controls the party because that is where alot of the money comes from.

If i am wrong please tell me.

You still didn't answer my question.

The Christian Right bears votes, not money. I've seen estimates that they make up as much as 40% of Republican voters.

However, the idea that alot of money comes from that segment is a fallacy. Almost all of those voters are suburban, upper-middle class church goers.

Republican money is coming from the wealthy elites, just like the Dems money.

[oldandslow]

If he mounts a serious and devoted campaign, I think he puts the discussion in the primaries on leadership and electability and wins enough to get the nom, then cleans up in the general.

I would bet you a hundred dollar bill that doesn't happen.

Make it go to the planet foundation...

[Baby Lee]

But they WILL have a choice...

Allen, if he stakes a strong lead out of the gate and achieves an early image of electability.

That's it.
FYP

[Brock]

Oh, I will. I will keep it right next to the Young prediction.

And I'll keep it right next to your housing bubble debacle.

[htismaqe]

'mage - so do you think Rudy wins in the south???

Yep. All he has to do is raise the most money.

[Brock]

I would bet you a hundred dollar bill that doesn't happen.

I will take that bet.

[htismaqe]

Ok who has the most influence in the Republican party?

Bureaucrats.

[Brock]

The Christian Right bears votes, not money. I've seen estimates that they make up as much as 40% of Republican voters.

However, the idea that alot of money comes from that segment is a fallacy. Almost all of those voters are suburban, upper-middle class church goers.

Republican money is coming from the wealthy elites, just like the Dems money.

dirk has the tail wagging the dog. He needs to take a serious look at the 04 elections.

[Baby Lee]

I would bet you a hundred dollar bill that doesn't happen.

Make it go to the planet foundation...
What doesn't happen

Serious campaign
Devoted campaign
Set tone in campaign about leadership and electability
Wins enough to secure nom
cleans up in general

All of the above?

[oldandslow]

What doesn't happen

Serious campaign
Devoted campaign
Set tone in campaign about leadership and electability
Wins enough to secure nom
cleans up in general

All of the above?

Wins nomination and general...

[oldandslow]

I will take that bet.

You are on....

[jiveturkey]

I'll take Rudy over G-Dub any day of the week.

[Nightwish]

Guilani/ Jeb Bush 2008.... The Northeast, the South.... another Republican victory
For his sake, I sure hope he doesn't run on that ticket. The name Bush is probably even more of a liability than the name Clinton right now. Guiliani is the only other Republican besided McCain, that I can think of, that I'd even consider voting for, and if he ran with any member of the Bush family, it would no doubt destroy any chance of winning. Guiliani isn't that dumb.

[dirk digler]

The Christian Right bears votes, not money. I've seen estimates that they make up as much as 40% of Republican voters.

However, the idea that alot of money comes from that segment is a fallacy. Almost all of those voters are suburban, upper-middle class church goers.

Republican money is coming from the wealthy elites, just like the Dems money.

Thanks.

I think people are a little confused here..I believe that in the primaries where the real hardcore Repubs vote he will have a very difficult time because of his stance on abortion and gay marriage because the Christian Right will not support him.

In the general election it is totally a different story.

[oldandslow]

oh, and by the way, Rudy doesn't even lead in a national poll of repub hopefuls now...

...let alone one in the south!!!

from the national journal...

Conducted 6/16-19/06; surveyed 1002 registered Republican voters; margin of error +/-4% (release, 6/22). A response of * indicates less than 0.5 percent.

If the 2008 Republican presidential primary were held today, whom would you support if the candidates were ________?
John McCain 25%
Chuck Hagel 1
Rudy Giuliani 23
Bill Frist 5
Newt Gingrich 7
George Allen 3
Tom Tancredo 1
Mitt Romney 4
George Pataki 2
All of the above (vol.) *
None of the above (vol.) 4
Wouldn't vote in primary (vol.) 1
Don't know/Refused 22

[Brock]

For his sake, I sure hope he doesn't run on that ticket. The name Bush is probably even more of a liability than the name Clinton right now. Guiliani is the only other Republican besided McCain, that I can think of, that I'd even consider voting for, and if he ran with any member of the Bush family, it would no doubt destroy any chance of winning. Guiliani isn't that dumb.

I agree with this. Bush is poison. He will have a southern republican running with him, however.


If he runs at all.

[dirk digler]

dirk has the tail wagging the dog. He needs to take a serious look at the 04 elections.

Wasn't the biggest story coming out of the 04 election was how Christians really influenced the election?

[Donger]

Personally, I do think that it will be Rudy vs. Hillary in 2008. The right will accept Rudy on that basis and he will win the nomination. Yes, Giuliani is pro-choice. Last I checked, abortion is still legal in this country. So, big whoop. Thay gay thing? Meh.

[Brock]

Wasn't the biggest story coming out of the 04 election was how Christians really influenced the election?

No. It was how the GOP influenced Christians to get out and vote. And it worked.

[oldandslow]

Personally, I do think that it will be Rudy vs. Hillary in 2008. The right will accept Rudy on that basis and he will win the nomination. Yes, Giuliani is pro-choice. Last I checked, abortion is still legal in this country. So, big whoop. Thay gay thing? Meh.


If so I will be voting Repub for the first time.

However, I don't think you realize how many single issue abortion votes are out there.

[Baby Lee]

oh, and by the way, Rudy doesn't even lead in a national poll of repub hopefuls now...

...let alone one in the south!!!

from the national journal...

Conducted 6/16-19/06; surveyed 1002 registered Republican voters; margin of error +/-4% (release, 6/22). A response of * indicates less than 0.5 percent.

If the 2008 Republican presidential primary were held today, whom would you support if the candidates were ________?
John McCain 25%
Chuck Hagel 1
Rudy Giuliani 23
Bill Frist 5
Newt Gingrich 7
George Allen 3
Tom Tancredo 1
Mitt Romney 4
George Pataki 2
All of the above (vol.) *
None of the above (vol.) 4
Wouldn't vote in primary (vol.) 1
Don't know/Refused 22
Giuliani and McCain "are closely matched in the Republican contest, with 29% of Republican registered voters supporting Giuliani and 24% supporting McCain."

[dirk digler]

No. It was how the GOP influenced Christians to get out and vote. And it worked.

ROFL

Nice spin

[htismaqe]

No. It was how the GOP influenced Christians to get out and vote. And it worked.

Yep. And the Christians are mad about now. GW made a bunch of promises and has yet to follow up on them...

[Donger]

If so I will be voting Repub for the first time.

However, I don't think you realize how many single issue abortion votes are out there.

Not enough to overturn Roe v. Wade. Let's say that some people only voted for Bush because he's pro-life. Did they only vote for him with the belief that he would try to get it over-turned?

I think you put too much stock in that issue.

[dirk digler]

According to surveys of voters leaving the polls, Bush won 79 percent of the 26.5 million evangelical votes and 52 percent of the 31 million Catholic votes.

[htismaqe]

ROFL

Nice spin

Spin?

Did you really buy into that bullshit?

The Christian right got suckered, hook line and sinker.

[DaKCMan AP]

Jeb Bush has a great approval ratings in Florida....

ROFL

[Baby Lee]

Not enough to overturn Roe v. Wade. Let's say that some people only voted for Bush because he's pro-life. Did they only vote for him with the belief that he would try to get it over-turned?

I think you put too much stock in that issue.
They did get pretty pissy about Harriet Miers.

[Donger]

They did get pretty pissy about Harriet Miers.

Pissy, yes. But do I think that they will (hopefully) look beyond the primaries and nominate a Republican that is capable of winning the GE. After all, it's just the playoffs. The GE is the Super Bowl.

Now, would a Bible-thumping right winger beat Hillary? I don't know.

[dirk digler]

Spin?

Did you really buy into that bullshit?

The Christian right got suckered, hook line and sinker.

My point from the beginning is that the Christian right is a major or the most important player in the Republican party. If they got suckered by Bush then that is their problem but they did have a HUGE impact on the election.

No one has yet to answer my question whether they think that the Christian Right will support Giuliani.

[Baby Lee]

No one has yet to answer my question whether they think that the Christian Right will support Giuliani.
So long as his most conservative primary opposition [Frist, Santorum, Brownback, etal] is framed as of the mold of Alan Keyes and Gary Bauer, which seems doable, and McCain maintains his own negatives, a burgeoning Allen or Romney would be his only credible challenge.

[Nightwish]

My point from the beginning is that the Christian right is a major or the most important player in the Republican party. If they got suckered by Bush then that is their problem but they did have a HUGE impact on the election.

No one has yet to answer my question whether they think that the Christian Right will support Giuliani.Much of the credit for the 04 election was given to the evangelicals, a particularly conservative and zealous subset of the Christian Right. I don't see many of them supporting Guiliani, due to his stance on sensitive dogmatic issues like abortion and gay marriage, but I think many of the more moderate/liberal members of the Christian Right, aside from the evangelicals, may support him. I'm not sure what percentage of the Christian Right is made up of evangelical Christians, though.

[Donger]

No one has yet to answer my question whether they think that the Christian Right will support Giuliani.

During the primaries? Depends on the other candidates and whether they are thinking "Who can win the general election."

If Hillary is the Democratic nominee, absolutely.

[Chiefnj]

Giuliani did a great job handling/managing 9/11, but prior to that his tenure at mayor was pretty controversial. His biggest platform was cracking down on crime - all crime, even crimes that most people would consider petty like jaywalking. There is some dispute as to whether his policy really worked or whether it was based on a national trend in decreased crime/better economy/ fudging of numbers.

There was a lot of controversy when he shut down funding to a museum because he felt one of the art exhibits was offensive. A court ruled against him. He improved the Time Square area and made it a nice corporate area as opposed to a porn center. On one hand that can be seen as a good thing, on the other hand it ended up displacing poorer people living in the area so Disney and MTV could come in. This might have future ramifications based on the Supreme Court's idiotic (IMO) ruling regarding eminent domain and public use.

Most of the pre 9/11 stuff won't matter, all people will remember and want to remember is that he was the brave mayor of NY after 9/11.

[dirk digler]

So long as his most conservative primary opposition [Frist, Santorum, Brownback, etal] is framed as of the mold of Alan Keyes and Gary Bauer, which seems doable, and McCain maintains his own negatives, a burgeoning Allen or Romney would be his only credible challenge.

Thank you..

If Frist or Santorum gets framed as Keyes or Bauer then they deserve to lose.

When Keyes first started running I really liked him but now he is just crazy.

[Baby Lee]

Thank you..

If Frist or Santorum gets framed as Keyes or Bauer then they deserve to lose.

When Keyes first started running I really liked him but now he is just crazy.
I've pretty much viewed them as fungible for some time now. Only Keyes seems to smart to make a medical diagnosis on the floor of the senate based on VHS footage.

[dirk digler]

I've pretty much viewed them as fungible for some time now. Only Keyes seems to smart to make a medical diagnosis on the floor of the senate based on VHS footage.

ROFL

Now Maya Keyes -- liberal, lesbian and a little lost -- finds herself out on her own. She says her parents -- conservative commentator and perennial candidate Alan Keyes and his wife, Jocelyn -- threw her out of their house, refused to pay her college tuition and stopped speaking to her.

Maya, 19, says her parents cut her off because of who she is -- "a liberal queer."

[Baby Lee]

ROFL
I didn't say he wasn't crazy, I said he wasn't stupid.

[Brock]

ROFL

Nice spin

Is that your idea of a cogent argument? Perhaps I truly am wasting my time.

[Brock]

No one has yet to answer my question whether they think that the Christian Right will support Giuliani.

Against WHO?

[dirk digler]

I didn't say he wasn't crazy, I said he wasn't stupid.

He is very crazy but you are probably right he isn't stupid

[dirk digler]

Against WHO?

In the Republican Primary against all of the other Republican candidates.

[Nightwish]

Against WHO?
[Grammar nazi moment] Against whom? [/Grammar nazi moment]

[oldandslow]

Oh, and I almost forgot...

He is a big gun control guy.

That'll play well in Texas.

[Brock]

Oh, and I almost forgot...

He is a big gun control guy.

That'll play well in Texas.

And McCain isn't?

[dirk digler]

Oh, and I almost forgot...

He is a big gun control guy.

That'll play well in Texas.

Don't forget Alabama and Mississippi

Honestly I don't see how he gets out of the primaries without selling his soul to the devil

Maybe he should run as an independent. :hmmm:

[oldandslow]

McCain voted AGAINST the Brady bill. Rudy championed it.

Here is his statement on gun control...

My position for many years has been that just as a motorist must have a license, a gun owner should be required to have one as well. Anyone wanting to own a gun should have to pass a written exam that shows that they know how to use a gun, that they’re intelligent enough and responsible enough to handle a gun. Both handgun and rifle owners be licensed...we’re talking about all dangerous weapons.

I'm sorry Brock - This is NOT going to play in the south - or even in places like South Dakota.

[Brock]

McCain voted AGAINST the Brady bill. Rudy championed it.

Here is his statement on gun control...

My position for many years has been that just as a motorist must have a license, a gun owner should be required to have one as well. Anyone wanting to own a gun should have to pass a written exam that shows that they know how to use a gun, that they’re intelligent enough and responsible enough to handle a gun. Both handgun and rifle owners be licensed...we’re talking about all dangerous weapons.

I'm sorry Brock - This is NOT going to play in the south - or even in places like South Dakota.

There is more to gun control that the Brady bill.

Sen. John McCain says he will force Senate consideration of a controversial gun control measure early next year bolstered by a newly powerful argument: Foreign terrorists have exploited a loophole to buy weapons at gun shows while bypassing federal background checks.

"Clearly, alleged members of terrorist organizations have been able to secure guns and weapons using the gun show loophole," McCain, R-Ariz., said in a telephone interview with USA TODAY. "I think that lends some urgency" to tightening the law.

McCain and Sen. Mike DeWine, R-Ohio, notified GOP colleagues this week that they would attach the legislation to the first appropriate bill, probably a homeland security measure, after the Senate convenes in January.

[oldandslow]

True. However, Rudy is to the left of McCain on the issue.

But that is beside the point. I don't believe that either McCain or Rudy will get the nomination.

Funny thing is - I would consider voting for either, but no other repub currently running.

[htismaqe]

My point from the beginning is that the Christian right is a major or the most important player in the Republican party. If they got suckered by Bush then that is their problem but they did have a HUGE impact on the election.

No one has yet to answer my question whether they think that the Christian Right will support Giuliani.

The Christian Right is a large voting block, one of the single largest. They absolutely had a big impact on the election. They are FAR from the most important player in the Republican Party. FAR.

[dirk digler]

The Christian Right is a large voting block, one of the single largest. They absolutely had a big impact on the election. They are FAR from the most important player in the Republican Party. FAR.

Thanks.

If you had to rank the top 5 what would they be?

[CRONUS]

Giuliani is by far and away my favorite as a possible candidate. No way I could be so fortunate as to be able to vote for him.

[htismaqe]

Thanks.

If you had to rank the top 5 what would they be?

Top 5? There's only one group with REAL power in the Republican party. For that matter, they're the only ones with the REAL power in the Democratic party.

--> $$$ <--

[oldandslow]

Top 5? There's only one group with REAL power in the Republican party. For that matter, they're the only ones with the REAL power in the Democratic party.

--> $$$ <--

htismage is absolutely correct.

Top 5 Republican

Phillip Morris
Microsoft
UPS
At&t
MBNA

Top 5 democrat

Emilys List
Goldman Sachs
Trial Lawyers PAC
National Assoication of Realtors
Teamsters

from www.opensecrets.org

[Baby Lee]

htismage is absolutely correct.

Top 5 Republican

Phillip Morris
Microsoft
UPS
At&t
MBNA

Top 5 democrat

Emilys List
Goldman Sachs
Trial Lawyers PAC
National Assoication of Realtors
Teamsters

from www.opensecrets.org
Did opensecrets really type Assoication?

[oldandslow]

Did opensecrets really type Assoication?

No, that is my bad. They had the list in a table and rather than copy and paste I just typed the top five.

[Rausch]

Giuliani is by far and away my favorite as a possible candidate. No way I could be so fortunate as to be able to vote for him.

He'd be about the only Rep. that'd get my vote...

[Miles]

htismage is absolutely correct.

Top 5 Republican

Phillip Morris
Microsoft
UPS
At&t
MBNA

Top 5 democrat

Emilys List
Goldman Sachs
Trial Lawyers PAC
National Assoication of Realtors
Teamsters

from www.opensecrets.org

Goldman Sachs? Thats pretty suprising.

[Cochise]

Right now, I'd probably choose Rudy over McCain. Mostly because of the sense of leadership qualities in him. I wouldn't have a problem casting a vote for either and could switch sides too. Who knows.

The thing about abortion and those other issues is that they will never finally be decided by a veto, or by legislative action. They'll be decided in the courts.

Sure, if you want vote for someone that you think is going to appoint your kind of justices then sure, go for it. I personally think it's foolish to reject a candidate who would simply annihilate the Democratic candidate, come whomever may, because of one or two policies in this era of the monolithic judiciary.

What is there to say that Rudy/McCain would even have any appointments to the court, or that they wouldn't pick someone who was pro-life?

The office of president to me is selecting a person who's going to run foreign policy and make some executive decisions domestically. I don't know who votes on the budget plans or all those other crap campaign promises. I'm not fooling myself into thinking that the President sits there in his office drawing up the budget himself. The president's party and the members of Congress are going to run all that, not the President.

To me you want competent foreign policy, someone who will know how to provide security for us and our interests, and general leadership qualities. The rest of that stuff I doubt the President has a lot of influence in. But you pretty much have to pander to issue groups, because if you don't, someone else will.

[Always a Chief fan]

Newt Gingrich has my vote, if he will run. He is the only possible candidate who is an advocate for conservative views.

[Nightwish]

Newt Gingrich has my vote, if he will run. He is the only possible candidate who is an advocate for conservative views.
There are a few conservatives, even a couple Republicans that I'd vote for. But it'd be a cold day in hell before I'd vote for that slimeball.

[Always a Chief fan]

You don't know what your talking about.

[Nightwish]

You don't know what your talking about.
What, you think Gingrich is a saint? Far, faaaaar from it.

[Baby Lee]

What, you think Gingrich is a saint? Far, faaaaar from it.
I don't think he's a saint, but I DO think he is a reasoned, reasonable, political mind who'll stick to his stated aims.

[Always a Chief fan]

I don't think any politician is a saint. I do believe he puts America's security, and fiscal restraint first.
He is also against amnesty for illegal aliens, and for securing our borders. I trust him more than I do anyone in office in Washinton now.

[BIG_DADDY]

I should be President.

[Nightwish]

I don't think he's a saint, but I DO think he is a reasoned, reasonable, political mind who'll stick to his stated aims.
He's not nearly as bad as some of them, but among the pool of potential conservatives and Republicans, there are better. I say he's a slimeball, not by waying of saying he's the worst one out there, but simply because about 99% of both parties' elite are slimeballs, and Gingrich is definitely no exception.

[Always a Chief fan]

I wouldn't want your finger on the "button" Big Daddy. You are too angry, and I don't feel like glowing in the dark.

[Always a Chief fan]

Nightwish, you made the statement that Gingrich was a slimeball. Provide evidence that supports your statement.

[Nightwish]

Nightwish, you made the statement that Gingrich was a slimeball. Provide evidence that supports your statement.
He's a corrupt long-time political elite. Do you need more evidence than that? Of course, that's not the only reason I think he's a slimeball, and I'm just getting ready to lay down to rest (recovering from an illness), so I don't feel like looking up his history just at the moment. But I do know his history is as checkered as any out there, and he has been involved in some past scandals and investigations, though I don't presently recall exactly what for.

[Always a Chief fan]

There you have it. You toss out allegations, yet are unwilling to support those allegations with evidence. Thats very reasonable of you. Methinks you cannot provide any evidence to support you statements.

[patteeu]

Goldman Sachs? Thats pretty suprising.

Both Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and former dem Senator / current dem Governor of New Jersey Jon Corizine were former top dogs (I'm not sure of the specific titles) at Goldman Sachs.

[patteeu]

He's a corrupt long-time political elite. Do you need more evidence than that?

That's not really what people mean when they say "evidence."

[Nightwish]

That's not really what people mean when they say "evidence."
Those are people who don't understand American politics. That's their problem. I'll look it up later.

[BIG_DADDY]

He's a corrupt long-time political elite. Do you need more evidence than that? Of course, that's not the only reason I think he's a slimeball, and I'm just getting ready to lay down to rest (recovering from an illness), so I don't feel like looking up his history just at the moment. But I do know his history is as checkered as any out there, and he has been involved in some past scandals and investigations, though I don't presently recall exactly what for.

Words words words words words words words corrupt long-time political elite. Words words words words words words words slimeball. Words words words words words words words words words I do not know. Words words words words words words words words words been involved in some past scandals and investigations. Words words words words words words words words words don't presently recall exactly what for. ROFL

Hope you feel better.

[Always a Chief fan]

Another unfounded allegation. I understand politics quite well. I read, and seek other forms of information than the "mainstream media" (leftist), or leftist political blogs in the blogosphere. I try to stay informed about politics all the time. You really should check your information sources more closely. Oh, get well soon.

[Brock]

Did I miss how Gingrich became relevant again?

[patteeu]

Those are people who don't understand American politics. That's their problem. I'll look it up later.

So what you seem to be saying is that you have a vague recollection that Gingrich has done something that IYO qualifies him as a slimeball. Fantastic. Let us know if you ever figure it out.

[Baby Lee]

To help NW out, I seem to recall that Gingrich got in hot soup for developing a television program and a university course that both used govt resources and tied into GOP recruitment efforts.

[go bowe]

ROFL

What about the other 49 states?

Personally I would like to see some variety I mean we have had 16 years of Bush/Clinton.actually, that would be 20 years, not 16...

[Always a Chief fan]

Was he ever indited or convicted of that BabyLee?
Not picking a fight or anything, I just had not heard anything about that.

[Baby Lee]

Was he ever indited or convicted of that BabyLee?
Not picking a fight or anything, I just had not heard anything about that.
Fined, maybe censured, might have required him to step down for Denny. All this was in Congress, nothing in the courts.

Guys, feel free to confirm. This is off the top of my head.

[go bowe]

ROFLmaya, 19?

i wonder what she looks like...

does she do threesomes?

[Always a Chief fan]

WTF?

[Cochise]

That's not really what people mean when they say "evidence."

ROFL

"Because I said so!"

[go bowe]

Fined, maybe censured, might have required him to step down for Denny. All this was in Congress, nothing in the courts.

Guys, feel free to confirm. This is off the top of my head.i don't remember any of the details (i'm supporting nw's approach here), but newt did something wrong to lose the speaker's job...

therefore, he is a slimeball... :p :p :p

of course, as nw says, most politicians probably are slimeballs in some regard or other... :D :D :D

[BIG_DADDY]

I wouldn't want your finger on the "button" Big Daddy. You are too angry, and I don't feel like glowing in the dark.
Actually I would like to be King. King Troy of America. Sounds good.

[go bowe]

ROFL

"Because I said so!"well, if you say so, that's good enough for me... :) :) :)

[go bowe]

Actually I would like to be King. King Troy of America. Sounds good.how 'bout sultan instead...

that way you could have a harem to keep you and lil' momma busy/happy...

[htismaqe]

Both Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and former dem Senator / current dem Governor of New Jersey Jon Corizine were former top dogs (I'm not sure of the specific titles) at Goldman Sachs.

Given my ethnic background, I think I can mention the obvious without being labeled an anti-Semite...

[BIG_DADDY]

King Troy’s Agenda

1. You must work full time for your welfare check.
2. All prisons must be self-sufficient.
3. Women 16-40 get paid not to have kids instead of for having kids.
4. Get rid of all the PC shit happening in our schools and stick to teaching the basics.
5. Shut down our borders.
6. Repeal most gun laws except for the most basic.
7. End the war on drugs.
8. Tax all illegal aliens.
9. All Legislation must be approved by King Troy. This means you’re going to see an end to victimless crimes.
10. End all types of free handouts.

Yes there will be monthly public floggings for amusement. We will start with Michael Moore.

[Nightwish]

Another unfounded allegation. I understand politics quite well. I read, and seek other forms of information than the "mainstream media" (leftist), or leftist political blogs in the blogosphere.
So I should stear clear of the "leftist" mainstream media, and the "leftist" political blogs in the blogosphere. Should I also stear clear of the right-wing mainstream media, and the right-wing political blogs in the blogosphere?

I try to stay informed about politics all the time.
So you already knew about Gingrich's hypocrisy in demanding the expulsion of two fellow Congressmen for having extramarital affairs with their pages, after having two similar adulterous affairs himself (not to mention having used the very same "Clintonian" double-speak to rationalize a 1977 oral sex affair with Anne Manning - Clinton must have learned that tactic from Newt)? You already knew that the man who propped himself up as a representative of "family values" was twice divorced after extramarital affairs, and that he had to be taken to court before he would pay alimony to his first wife? You already knew that he, in perhaps his most dispicable act, funneled hundreds of thousands of dollars from a charitable fund (Abraham Lincoln Opportunity Foundation), ostensibly to benefit inner city kids, to fund a GOP ad campaign - the kids who were supposed to receive the money, didn't. And I'm sure it comes as no surprise to you that Newt was charged with several congressional ethics violations after forcing the resignation of a fellow congressman for illegally accepting a lucrative advance on a book deal while in office, a violation of campaign finance laws, after himself doing it twice, once in 1984, and again in 1995. The one in 1995 was the most egregious of the two, with the Murdoch-owned (also owns Fox network) Harper Collins offering first $2.5 million, then $4.5 million in advance of a book deal for Gingrich during meetings with Murdoch and a GOP lobbyist - Gingrich got himself out of that one, though, after pressure from within his own party convinced him to return the advance. And I'm sure you already know that he was fined $300,000 for providing false information to the ethics committee during its investigation of his illegal activities? Of course, the Gingrich-appointed ethics committee stopped short of prosecuting him for criminal activity, calling the 300K a "cost assessment," rather than a "fine," after Gingrich insisted the misrepresentation was unintentional. Interestingly, his conspiracy to misrepresent information to the ethics committee was not only intentional, but was proven intentional when taped conversations between Gingrich and fellow Republicans surfaced, but those tapes were ruled inadmissible because they were recorded without either of the parties' knowledge. But what they showed was that Gingrich and some of his GOP fellows conspired before the proceedings to provide false information to the committee. Basically, if you want to know where Clinton learned his art of double-speak and perjury, you have only to look at Gingrich as his teacher. Oh, there was also his involvement with the House banking scandal (apparentely he bounced 22 of them himself).

You might even be aware that his own former advisor had this to say about him:

"The important thing you have to understand about Newt Gingrich is that he is amoral... There isn't any right or wrong, there isn't any conservative or liberal. There's only what will work best for Newt Gingrich. He's probably one of the most dangerous people for the future of this country that you can possibly imagine. He's Richard Nixon, glib. It doesn't matter how much good I do the rest of my life, I can't ever outweigh the evil that I've caused by helping him be elected to Congress." ~ former Gingrich political advisor L.H. Carter

As I said, he's not the worst of the bunch, but if you really think he's the best the Republicans have, then the GOP is in serious trouble!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich
http://www.answers.com/topic/newt-gingrich
http://www.realchange.org/gingrich.htm#deadbeat
http://www.***********/library/bio/usa/newt-gingrich/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/govt/leadership/stories/010797.htm

[go bowe]

Given my ethnic background, I think I can mention the obvious without being labeled an anti-Semite...i didn't know zod had an ethnic background...

[Nightwish]

i didn't know zod had an ethnic background...
He's of Kryptonian ethnicity.

[Adept Havelock]

Actually I would like to be King. King Troy of America. Sounds good.

How about "Emperor Troy of United States". You could be <a href="http://www.zpub.com/sf/history/nort.html">Emperor Norton I's</a> successor.

[Adept Havelock]

He's of Kryptonian ethnicity.

A Kryptonian Jew? That's just super-meshuggah....

[htismaqe]

A Kryptonian Jew? That's just super-meshuggah....

ROFL

[Always a Chief fan]

Uh...Thought you were too sick to look shit up.

[Nightwish]

Uh...Thought you were too sick to look shit up.
I said I didn't feel like looking it up right at that moment, because I needed to rest as I am still recovering from an illness. When I looked it up, it was several hours later.

[Brock]

oh, and by the way, Rudy doesn't even lead in a national poll of repub hopefuls now...

http://poll.gallup.com/content/?ci=23764

[jiveturkey]

Hillary Clinton is the clear front-runner among Democrats when voters are asked to choose which one candidate they would prefer for the Democratic nomination for president, but the current poll finds Democrats are about equally likely to rate Clinton, John Edwards, and Al Gore as acceptable nominees.After you shoot yourself in the foot several times you stop feeling it. :banghead:

[recxjake]

last night on leno chris matthews said that Rudi would be the next president