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Mr. Laz
07-20-2006, 05:30 PM
July 20, 2006

Bush could be late for Saints camp

Agent says unsigned Heisman Trophy winner needs to be treated like No. 1 pick

By Michael Wallace

How soon New Orleans Saints top draft pick Reggie Bush reports to Jackson for training camp may depend on how quickly team officials follow through on a draft night pledge, a Bush representative said.

Mike Ornstein, Bush's marketing agent, said Wednesday that Saints owner Tom Benson and general manager Mickey Loomis told Bush that he would be treated during contract negotiations as if he were the first overall pick in the April NFL draft.

The Saints used the No. 2 pick on Bush, the Heisman Trophy winning running back out of Southern Cal, after Houston surprisingly chose defensive end Mario Williams with the top pick.

Ornstein told The Clarion-Ledger on Wednesday that it's likely Bush and the Saints won't reach a deal on a contract before training camp opens July 28 at Millsaps College.

"Do we feel like he'll be there at the start?" Ornstein said in a telephone interview from his California office. "I'm not sure where we are right now. I'd say probably not, at this stage. ... We're not trying to be the bad guys. We want the Saints to live up to what they told Reggie at the draft."

Apparently at issue is whether the Saints will offer Bush, who was widely rated the top player in the draft, a more lucrative deal than Houston gave Williams.

Williams a former North Carolina State pass rusher, has reportedly agreed to a six-year contract with Texas worth $54 million, with $26.5 million in guaranteed pay.

Saints general manager Mickey Loomis, through a team spokesman, declined an interview request Wednesday.

Bush said during the Saints' rookie mini-camp in May that he instructed his team of agents to do "whatever it takes" to make sure a deal was reached that would allow him to report to camp on time.

Ornstein is one of at least two representatives that handle Bush's professional matters. Ornstein said he primarily negotiates the player's endorsement deals. Joel Segal, who will negotiate Bush's NFL contract, said he will not comment on where discussions stood with the Saints.

"I don't want to get caught up in holdouts and things like that," Bush said in May after his first offseason workout with the team. "I think it's important to start off on a good foot and a good note ... not only with the team, but with the city."

The Saints have signed three of their eight 2006 draft picks in the past 10 days. But the team's top four picks remain unsigned a week before players report, which is not uncommon among NFL teams. Many deals, especially ones involving higher-round picks, get done weeks into training camp.

Ornstein's comments Wednesday came a day after the agent for quarterback Vince Young, chosen No. 3 overall by Tennessee, said he was heading to Nashville to get a deal done in time for Young to open camp with the Titans next week.

Ornstein said Bush is in Los Angeles, where he shot a commercial for Pepsi on Tuesday and has been working out at USC's campus.

Bush has already signed endorsement deals with Adidas, Subway restaurants and Hummer.

And he has already established deep ties to New Orleans, where he has purchased a downtown condo and has donated thousands of dollars to local charities through his endorsement companies.

Segal, who also represents Michael Vick, has made high-end deals since 1999, when he landed ex-Packers star Antonio Freeman what was then the biggest signing bonus ever paid to an NFL receiver.

"We're confident the Saints will live up to what they stated at the beginning, that Reggie would be treated like the top pick," Ornstein said. "He's been at every camp, at every workout, out in the community. The Saints sold 15,000 season tickets the week after he was drafted. His impact has been huge."

chefsos
07-20-2006, 05:49 PM
MEMO

From: Mr. Segal
To: Mr. Ornstein
Re: Impending Reggie Bush/New Orleans Saints contract negotiations


Shut up.

Rain Man
07-20-2006, 05:50 PM
Question: How are Rain Man and Reggie Bush similar?


Answer: We both want #1 money, but neither of us were #1 picks.

TinyEvel
07-20-2006, 06:15 PM
Agents and managers. Yeah. Awesome.

I think everybody should leverage themselves while they're hot, but....he'll get it.

I think the Saints are trying to keep some money for Ty Law.

TinyEvel
07-20-2006, 06:16 PM
If I were a good illustrator, I'd cartoon a pic of Bush with his finger in a hole in the Levy. (you know, like the boy and the dike.)

Mr. Flopnuts
07-20-2006, 06:41 PM
He deserves #1 money too. At least as much as any of these guys "deserve" this kind of money for playing a game. It's not his fault the Texans are idiots. Can anyone say Tony Mandrich?

ChiefFan31
07-20-2006, 06:44 PM
Not surprising at all. He will probably get close to it.

Just what tightwad Tom Benson didnt want...

But if he passed on Bush, they would have strung him up in NO

Garcia Bronco
07-20-2006, 07:19 PM
LMAO...people are going to learn the hard way that Bush is not a top 5 pick....he just doesn't touch the ball enough on offense...I could understand if he had Vick speed and a Young arm...but he doesn't...he's a situational back and a receiver. He's not worht 60 mill over 5 years

CoMoChief
07-20-2006, 07:22 PM
LMAO...people are going to learn the hard way that Bush is not a top 5 pick....he just doesn't touch the ball enough on offense...I could understand if he had Vick speed and a Young arm...but he doesn't...he's a situational back and a receiver. He's not worht 60 mill over 5 years


Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

Sam Hall
07-20-2006, 07:26 PM
If Bush holds out, than Deuce McAllister would be an attractive fantasy pick. Just something to consider.

Mr. Laz
07-20-2006, 07:28 PM
He deserves #1 money too. At least as much as any of these guys "deserve" this kind of money for playing a game. It's not his fault the Texans are idiots. Can anyone say Tony Mandrich?
he wasn't the 1st pick so he doesn't deserve it.


the money isn't based on taletn because nobody really knows who is the best player ..... it's based on what pick you were and whether you are a QB or not.


the best player in the draft is rarely the 1st pick ...... talent has nothing to do with it.

SoCalBronco
07-20-2006, 07:43 PM
he wasn't the 1st pick so he doesn't deserve it.

.

That's absurd.

He deserves it if he can get it. What will determine if he deserves it is if he ends up having the leverage to force it out of them. And that is what he SHOULD DO, anyway.

Good for Reggie. That is a joke of a franchise. If he is going to have to put up with playing for that "team", he should be compensated as highly as possible.

He should force it out of them. Good for him.

Tribal Warfare
07-20-2006, 08:19 PM
LMAO...people are going to learn the hard way that Bush is not a top 5 pick....he just doesn't touch the ball enough on offense...I could understand if he had Vick speed and a Young arm...but he doesn't...he's a situational back and a receiver. He's not worht 60 mill over 5 years


I agree completely

Spicy McHaggis
07-20-2006, 08:23 PM
Didn't Winslow pull this shit a couple years back? Claimed he was promised by teams that he would have been gone before the Browns picked and thus should be paid as such?

Stuff like this makes me respect Brian Waters for going against the bullshit agent stuff and getting his contract done himself.

Spicy McHaggis
07-20-2006, 08:24 PM
Good for Reggie. That is a joke of a franchise. If he is going to have to put up with playing for that "team", he should be compensated as highly as possible.

He should force it out of them. Good for him.

Spoken like a true Elway fan.

Mr. Laz
07-20-2006, 08:26 PM
That's absurd.

He deserves it if he can get it. .
and spraying offensive lineman's jerseys with Pam is ok as long as you don't get
caught, donkboy.

hawkchief
07-20-2006, 08:37 PM
Didn't Bush make enough from USC to accept #2 money?

Garcia Bronco
07-20-2006, 09:49 PM
Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

You must have caught the 50 part series on Espin on why USC is the greatest team ever.

He's not going to be playing against PAC-10 freshman and juniors and such....plus he'll be playing for a team with the less than average coaching....bustola....him and Mike Williams

Mecca
07-20-2006, 10:00 PM
You must have caught the 50 part series on Espin on why USC is the greatest team ever.

He's not going to be playing against PAC-10 freshman and juniors and such....plus he'll be playing for a team with the less than average coaching....bustola....him and Mike Williams

Mike Williams looks like shit because he's on a bad team and he isn't a prototypical WR he's big and slowish everyone knew that when he came out. It takes creative ways to make him productive he has skills but they aren't general WR skills.

Reggie Bush on the other hand is an all world talent, he has track speed and WR hands. This idea of he can't play everydown is really stupid too, the guy is no smaller than Marshall Faulk. He didn't take every carry at USC because see USC has other guys that are really good too so they can keep people fresh.

Cochise
07-20-2006, 10:07 PM
You must have caught the 50 part series on Espin on why USC is the greatest team ever.

He's not going to be playing against PAC-10 freshman and juniors and such....plus he'll be playing for a team with the less than average coaching....bustola....him and Mike Williams

Put me in the bust camp too. He's not a running back who is going to carry a full load in the NFL. He's not an NFL wide receiver. He's Dante Hall on steroids.

What will be really funny is in a couple years when Bush hasn't taken them to the next level, McAllister is gone because they couldn't tie up billions on their backfield alone, the team is still locked in the depths of the NFL, finger-pointing is rampant, but ESPN is still pimping him as the greatest player ever, except maybe Michael Vick, when everyone knows better.

Some players put up numbers in college, some do it on great teams and look great in the process, but the NFL has a pretty clearly defined role for a halfback and he doesn't fit it.

alanm
07-20-2006, 10:13 PM
Didn't Bush make enough from USC to accept #2 money?
ROFL :LOL: ROFL

Mecca
07-20-2006, 10:14 PM
Put me in the bust camp too. He's not a running back who is going to carry a full load in the NFL. He's not an NFL wide receiver. He's Dante Hall on steroids.

What will be really funny is in a couple years when Bush hasn't taken them to the next level, McAllister is gone because they couldn't tie up billions on their backfield alone, the team is still locked in the depths of the NFL, finger-pointing is rampant, but ESPN is still pimping him as the greatest player ever, except maybe Michael Vick, when everyone knows better.

Some players put up numbers in college, some do it on great teams and look great in the process, but the NFL has a pretty clearly defined role for a halfback and he doesn't fit it.

Explain Marshall Faulk to me real quick then because he isn't any bigger than Reggie Bush is and did all of the same things in college.......People just see Bush run like he does and think oh well he can't be a RB. Tomlinson isn't much bigger than Bush is either......Reggie Bush is 6'1 explain to me how he's Dante Hall on steroids? Unless steroids make you grow 5 inches.

Should you run Reggie Bush up the gut 30 times? No. But using Bush properly he can give you 25 touches rushing and recieving and put up some big plays he has a very unique skill set, alot of people aren't use to it so my god he must suck and be a bust.

alanm
07-20-2006, 10:20 PM
Explain Marshall Faulk to me real quick then because he isn't any bigger than Reggie Bush is and did all of the same things in college.......People just see Bush run like he does and think oh well he can't be a RB. Tomlinson isn't much bigger than Bush is either......Reggie Bush is 6'1 explain to me how he's Dante Hall on steroids? Unless steroids make you grow 5 inches.

Should you run Reggie Bush up the gut 30 times? No. But using Bush properly he can give you 25 touches rushing and recieving and put up some big plays he has a very unique skill set, alot of people aren't use to it so my god he must suck and be a bust.
He's decent enough I guess but he better learn how to block and tackle if he wants about $26 mil in gauranteed money like Williams.

Miles
07-20-2006, 10:23 PM
Didn't Winslow pull this shit a couple years back? Claimed he was promised by teams that he would have been gone before the Browns picked and thus should be paid as such?

Stuff like this makes me respect Brian Waters for going against the bullshit agent stuff and getting his contract done himself.

Yep, it was a classic Postons negotiation tactic.

Rain Man
07-20-2006, 10:25 PM
He deserves #1 money too. At least as much as any of these guys "deserve" this kind of money for playing a game. It's not his fault the Texans are idiots. Can anyone say Tony Mandrich?

So you're saying that Mandarich deserves #1 money?

Bowser
07-20-2006, 10:43 PM
He hasn't done shit in the pros, yet wants to be paid like he's one of the top five backs in the league?

I would enjoy telling him and his agent to go eat a dick.

Mecca
07-20-2006, 10:55 PM
He hasn't done shit in the pros, yet wants to be paid like he's one of the top five backs in the league?

I would enjoy telling him and his agent to go eat a dick.

That tends to happen when you are a top 2 pick.........I'd hope you were never a GM for a team with a high draft pick.

Bowser
07-20-2006, 11:01 PM
That tends to happen when you are a top 2 pick.........I'd hope you were never a GM for a team with a high draft pick.

I don't get it.

Bush & Agent: Well, everybody thought we were supposed to be the top pick. You can't argue logic like that. 25 mil signing bonus, no less.

GM: YOU BETCHA!! UUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH............



Am I missing something? The guy was picked #2, therefore he gets a contract suitable to the second pick, NOT the top pick. Right?

Chiefnj
07-21-2006, 09:51 AM
I don't get it.

Bush & Agent: Well, everybody thought we were supposed to be the top pick. You can't argue logic like that. 25 mil signing bonus, no less.

GM: YOU BETCHA!! UUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH............



Am I missing something? The guy was picked #2, therefore he gets a contract suitable to the second pick, NOT the top pick. Right?


According to Bush's agent the team told him they would pay him like a #1 pick. It's a little different than the Postons who took the position that some teams had Kellen rated as the #1 pick, thus he deserved #1 money. The Browns never promised Kellen to compensate him like the #1 pick, but apparently the Saints may have made that promise to Bush.

Can you imagine Carl ever saying something like that? Carl wouldn't even say it to the real #1 pick.

StcChief
07-21-2006, 10:03 AM
According to Bush's agent the team told him they would pay him like a #1 pick. It's a little different than the Postons who took the position that some teams had Kellen rated as the #1 pick, thus he deserved #1 money. The Browns never promised Kellen to compensate him like the #1 pick, but apparently the Saints may have made that promise to Bush.

Can you imagine Carl ever saying something like that? Carl wouldn't even say it to the real #1 pick.
Can NO support outlays of $$$ like a #1 pick can get....

NO ---->>> LA Saints

DaKCMan AP
07-21-2006, 10:08 AM
He was not the #1 overall pick. He was the #2. Therefore, he should get a contract that is less than Mario Williams' deal.

He already has or soon will make more on endorsement deals than he will from this contract, anyway. He's just coming off as a crybaby.

I hope he gets in to camp so that they can haze the crap out of him.

ChiefsfaninPA
07-21-2006, 10:14 AM
If he can get #1 pick money, more power to him. It is at least worth a try. At least in his situation if Houston wouldn't have made the move they made, which I think surprised a lot of people he definetely would've been a lock at #1.

ChiefsfaninPA
07-21-2006, 10:15 AM
As far as arguing the merits of his pay based upon what he has yet to accomplish, I really can't do that either. The system is set up so that the players get there payday before they even play a down and prove their worth. Unfair, maybe. But that is the way it is.

DaFace
07-21-2006, 10:20 AM
Bush said during the Saints' rookie mini-camp in May that he instructed his team of agents to do "whatever it takes" to make sure a deal was reached that would allow him to report to camp on time.
...
"I don't want to get caught up in holdouts and things like that," Bush said in May after his first offseason workout with the team. "I think it's important to start off on a good foot and a good note ... not only with the team, but with the city."

I think it's important to note these statements. Bush appears to be in the right mindset. It's his agents that are causing all the fuss.

DaKCMan AP
07-21-2006, 10:23 AM
I think it's important to note these statements. Bush appears to be in the right mindset. It's his agents that are causing all the fuss.

Lets see him put his money where his mouth is, literally. He hired his agents to represent him and their actions are on his behalf. If his agents are causing a fuss, he's causing a fuss. They work for him, not the other way around.

KCTitus
07-21-2006, 10:26 AM
I think it's important to note these statements. Bush appears to be in the right mindset. It's his agents that are causing all the fuss.

Uh, no...all first round picks state that they tell their agents to 'get a deal done' and 'get me into camp' so it means nothing about his mindset.

His mindset is to get paid.

DaFace
07-21-2006, 10:31 AM
Eh, you could be right. I've really got no experience in that area, so I'll just concede. :shrug:

Fish
07-21-2006, 12:50 PM
Sports agents are ruining the league...........

htismaqe
07-21-2006, 01:20 PM
LMAO...people are going to learn the hard way that Bush is not a top 5 pick....he just doesn't touch the ball enough on offense...I could understand if he had Vick speed and a Young arm...but he doesn't...he's a situational back and a receiver. He's not worht 60 mill over 5 years

Yep.

Cochise
07-21-2006, 03:32 PM
Reggie Bush is 6'1 explain to me how he's Dante Hall on steroids? Unless steroids make you grow 5 inches.


Are you familiar with the colloquial term "on steroids"? It just means a more capable or higher powered version of the same. It does not literally mean that I think Reggie Bush is on steroids. Sheesh :rolleyes:

Mecca
07-21-2006, 04:11 PM
Are you familiar with the colloquial term "on steroids"? It just means a more capable or higher powered version of the same. It does not literally mean that I think Reggie Bush is on steroids. Sheesh :rolleyes:

I just think it's funny how people act like a guy who was a dominant college player and made people look silly is being talked about like he's just a ho hum can't do anything player in the NFL.

This whole "he doesn't touch the ball enough" arguement is complete bullshit. USC used another RB because they had 2 top 5 RB's on the same team. It had nothing to do with Bush not being able to handle it, it had to do with using all their pieces.

Smed1065
07-21-2006, 04:29 PM
I think all draft picks should be slotted and paid in that order. They have yet to prove anything in the NFL.

listopencil
07-21-2006, 06:57 PM
They should trade him to DC for Portis and a draft pick.

jspchief
07-21-2006, 07:44 PM
Here's a good place for this little blast from the past...

Saints' top pick Bush wants to avoid holdout (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2445011)

BWillie
07-22-2006, 12:05 AM
Bush would be the #1 pick in 9 of the last 10 drafts. Give him #1 money, not as much as Mario Williams, but pretty damn close. Him and Vince Young still won't live up to the hype though.

Halfcan
07-22-2006, 12:08 AM
It had nothing to do with Bush not being able to handle it, it had to do with using all their pieces.


And how did that work out for them-lol

Halfcan
07-22-2006, 12:09 AM
Bush will be the next Kajana Carter.

Halfcan
07-22-2006, 12:10 AM
or Harvey Williams-minus the speed and long neck.

Mecca
07-22-2006, 01:11 AM
I take it you have 0 knowledge of what Reggie Bush is with comments like that.......

OnTheWarpath58
12-13-2007, 08:58 PM
With Mario Williams at 12.5 sack for the year, I thought I'd bump this beauty.

Garcia Bronco and a few others hit the nail right on the head.

And to think, Charlie Casserly lost his job over picking Williams over bush and Young......

Buck
12-13-2007, 09:00 PM
I never thought I'd say it, but that might turn out to be a great move...

BigRock
12-13-2007, 09:06 PM
With Mario Williams at 12.5 sack for the year, I thought I'd bump this beauty.

Garcia Bronco and a few others hit the nail right on the head.

And to think, Charlie Casserly lost his job over picking Williams over bush and Young......
Bush isn't even in the discussion anymore, but I'd say they still should have taken Vince Young over Mario. Just my opinion.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2007, 09:08 PM
Charlie Casserly lost his job because he's a ****ing idiot.

How'd that David Carr pick turn out?

How many times did they try and build their line through the draft?

Travis Johnson's most famous for kneeing Green in the skull, David Carr is one of the worst draft picks of the last 30 years, and Jason Babin is absof*ckinglutely worthless.

3 of their 7 first round picks have done NOTHING, including a #1 overall pick.

Jabar Gaffney, Fred Weary, Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek (the next two picks were Lance Briggs and Jason Witten, BTW), Vernand Morency.

All of those were 1st-3rd round picks, and one goddamned selection was used on an offensive lineman, a 3rd rounder on a guard.

The guy is probably one of the worst GMs in any sport, ever, and he's a smug f*ck to boot.

OnTheWarpath58
12-13-2007, 09:09 PM
Make that 13 sacks.

The Pro Bowl race for AFC DE's just got a little more crowded.....

Buehler445
12-13-2007, 09:09 PM
If the Saints could have continued on last years momentum, maybe. But Bush is broken now, correct?

OnTheWarpath58
12-13-2007, 09:10 PM
Charlie Casserly lost his job because he's a ****ing idiot.

How'd that David Carr pick turn out?

How many times did they try and build their line through the draft?

Travis Johnson's most famous for kneeing Green in the skull, David Carr is one of the worst draft picks of the last 30 years, and Jason Babin is absof*ckinglutely worthless.

3 of their 7 first round picks have done NOTHING, including a #1 overall pick.

Jabar Gaffney, Fred Weary, Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek (the next two picks were Lance Briggs and Jason Witten, BTW), Vernand Morency.

All of those were 1st-3rd round picks, and one goddamned selection was used on an offensive lineman, a 3rd rounder on a guard.

The guy is probably one of the worst GMs in any sport, ever, and he's a smug f*ck to boot.

So, in a nutshell, a Carl Peterson clone?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2007, 09:18 PM
So, in a nutshell, a Carl Peterson clone?

Whiffing on a #1 overall pick is much, much worse than even whiffing on a #6.

And despite having a QB who got sacked 76 times, he spends not 1 pick on the line in the '03 draft?

Someone needs to crush that guy's head with a vise.

Otter
12-13-2007, 09:36 PM
Dear Mr. Bush,

Thank you for your interest in contract re-negotiation. I would like to remind you that as a running back you've barely reached 500 yards the last two seasons and that you may also be done for this season with a torn ligament.

On top of the previous situation you are currently under contract and weren't a 1st round pick, you were a 2nd. Feel free to Google "2006 NFL Draft" for clarification.

PS - I'm deducting $7543.23 from your direct deposit this week. This amount is proportional to your pay vs my secretaries pay who had to take the time to write the above letter in order to address this frivolous challenge.

Sincerely,

Your Boss

Cochise
12-13-2007, 09:53 PM
I think like many of us expected, Bush is a nice accessory but isn't a guy who is going to be your primary running back on most teams.

SBK
12-13-2007, 10:06 PM
I think like many of us expected, Bush is a nice accessory but isn't a guy who is going to be your primary running back on most teams.

Reggie Bush can walk on water and is the best football player God ever created / Mecca

Mecca
12-13-2007, 10:10 PM
LOL.....I still think Bush is a great player to have, but no you shouldn't pepper him into your line 25 times. But I also believe in 2 back systems.....If you want a 1 back horse then no Bush isn't your guy.

Also it wasn't like they had crap to pick from Mario Williams was and still is the best DE prospect since Peppers.

Sure-Oz
12-14-2007, 01:00 AM
LOL.....I still think Bush is a great player to have, but no you shouldn't pepper him into your line 25 times. But I also believe in 2 back systems.....If you want a 1 back horse then no Bush isn't your guy.

Also it wasn't like they had crap to pick from Mario Williams was and still is the best DE prospect since Peppers.
He is a beast and Peppers, wtf has happend to him?

Short Leash Hootie
12-14-2007, 03:58 AM
LOL.....I still think Bush is a great player to have, but no you shouldn't pepper him into your line 25 times. But I also believe in 2 back systems.....If you want a 1 back horse then no Bush isn't your guy.

Also it wasn't like they had crap to pick from Mario Williams was and still is the best DE prospect since Peppers.
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL