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The Poz
07-27-2006, 08:24 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5221122.stm

Landis gives positive drugs test

Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has given a positive drugs test.
The American, who claimed victory in the Tour de France on Sunday, has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone.


More to follow.


It isn't football, but it makes me laugh how stupid some people are.

cdcox
07-27-2006, 08:36 AM
The dopers are ruining cycling. Most of the favorites got thrown out before the race even started for doping.

hawkchief
07-27-2006, 08:40 AM
Who was 2nd in the Tour DF? Guess they will become the champ now, eh? After all of the tests Lance Armstrong unerwent for the past 8 years, if this is true, how in the world did Landis expect to get away with this? Just plain stupid.

Mr. Kotter
07-27-2006, 08:44 AM
Testosterone, eh?

I've always wondered, how do they "test" for doping for something your body produces naturally. I mean, my 'testosterone' levels are off the chart....and I certainly don't "dope."

Anyone know? :shrug:

Donger
07-27-2006, 08:46 AM
Steroid profiling has become an additional tool in dope control to detect changes in the normal pattern of excreted steroids. These changes may be the result of the misuse of testosterone, a precursor (androstenedione) or an active metabolite of testosterone (dihydrostestosterone) and/or long-term misuse of synthetic anabolic steroids.

Testing for testosterone administration has been routinely carried out by analysis of the ratio of testosterone glucuronide to epitestosterone glucuronide, usually known simply as the T/E ratio (Donike M. et al, 1985).

Considerations have varied slightly over the years and the present criterion for suspicion of testosterone administration is an abnormally elevated T/E ratio in urine. For some sport bodies the criterion is when the value exceeds the range normally found in humans and thought to be consistent with normal endogenous production. For other bodies, the rule is based on a ratio higher than the usual population (cut-off 6:1) but they accept the obligation to perform additional research in order to exclude the small percentage of people having high T/E ratios due to physiological or pathological conditions (Donike M. et al., 1993; Baezinger J. et al., 1994; Kicman A.T. et al., 1990).

Evidence has accumulated in recent years that T/E ratios are relatively stable in a given subject. Work carried out by different authors shows that deviations from a normal baseline value for a given individual should be the starting point for a suspicion of testosterone administration. It has also been shown that there exist, at least, two different classes of "normal" population, one with T/E values around 1-2 and another with T/E values of around 0.2-0.3, the latter mainly concentrated among the Mongoloid race group (Park J. et al., 1990; de la Torre X. et al., 1997).

Several authors have studied the effects of testosterone administration on many parameters and they have reached the conclusion that, if suitably chosen, some of these parameters may be highly indicative. Among the more interesting, there is the high increase in the testosterone/17 hydroxy-progesterone (T/17OHP) ratio and in the testosterone/luteinizing hormone (T/LH) ratio. The effects are based on the negative feedback of testosterone, both the release of LH by the hypophysis and the amount of some of its synthetic precursors present in the body, such as 17OHP.

Testosterone is usually administered as testosterone enanthate or as one of many other esters. These compounds were supposed to hydrolyse rapidly and completely in the body to release free testosterone. Modern methodology now allows us to determine that small amounts remain in the body for a long time. The finding of such compounds (exogenous: not existing in our body) in the blood would be indicative of testosterone administration (de la Torre X., et al., 199.).

It is possible to establish a list of generally accepted scientific facts that should be the basis for a rational approach to the problem of detection and confirmation of cases of testosterone doping. Those premises can be listed as follows:

1. T/E ratio in urine is fairly stable in a given individual

2. External testosterone administration disturbs some selected parameters such as T/17OHP in blood plasma and T/E in urine. The T/LH ratio both in blood plasma and urine is also affected. Many other markers have been studied in both plasma and urine but they have offered less definitive results.

3. The finding of esters of testosterone in blood plasma demonstrates testosterone administration.

cdcox
07-27-2006, 08:47 AM
Testosterone, eh?

I've always wondered, how do they "test" for doping for something your body produces naturally. I mean, my 'testosterone' levels are off the chart....and I certainly don't "dope."

Anyone know? :shrug:

The anti-doping people have ranges of normal levels based on thouands of samples. He exceeded the range.

Donger
07-27-2006, 08:49 AM
I'd imagine that Phonak will ask that his B sample be tested.

Either way, this sucks.

hawkchief
07-27-2006, 08:52 AM
Way to embarrass your country, Landass!

Mr. Kotter
07-27-2006, 08:53 AM
Thanks, cdcox
I'd imagine that Phonak will ask that his B sample be tested.

Either way, this sucks.
Yup.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531225

Phonak: Landis had positive test after Stage 17
<HR width="100%" noShade SIZE=1>ESPN.com news services

LONDON -- Tour de France champion Floyd Landis tested positive for high levels of testosterone during the race, his Phonak team said Thursday on its Web site. Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."
The statement came a day after the UCI, cycling's world governing body, said an unidentified rider had failed a drug test during the Tour. The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the UCI on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 of the race last Thursday. Landis made a remarkable comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. He regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later. "The team management and the rider were both totally surprised of this physiological result," the Phonak statement said. Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake." Landis has been suspended by his team pending the results. If the second sample confirms the initial finding, he will be fired from the team, Phonak said. Landis failed to show up for a one-day race in Denmark on Thursday, a day after missing a scheduled event in the Netherlands. Dutch news agency ANP quoted his teammate Koos Moerenhout as saying that Landis had pain from his hip problem and had gone to see his doctor in Germany. He plans to have hip replacement surgery this fall to ease pain in the arthritic joint still aching from a 2003 crash during a training ride. "We were told by the other two riders that he couldn't join because he was traveling with team manager [John] Lelangue to his doctor in Germany," event organizer Theo van der Westerlaken said. "That's all we know." Landis did take part in a criterium race Tuesday in Stiphout, Netherlands, winning the event. Landis won the Tour de France on Sunday, keeping the title in U.S. hands for the eighth straight year after Lance Armstrong's record seven victories. On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders -- including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso -- were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation. The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

Donger
07-27-2006, 08:55 AM
Way to embarrass your country, Landass!

Easy. False positives aren't that rare.

I hope that's the case here.

Saulbadguy
07-27-2006, 08:55 AM
Big deal. Lance did it. This guy did it. Noone really cares about cycling.

DiaperBoy27
07-27-2006, 08:56 AM
is the source french?

Donger
07-27-2006, 08:57 AM
Thanks, cdcox

Yup.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531225

Phonak: Landis had positive test after Stage 17
<HR width="100%" noShade SIZE=1>ESPN.com news services

LONDON -- Tour de France champion Floyd Landis tested positive for high levels of testosterone during the race, his Phonak team said Thursday on its Web site. Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."
The statement came a day after the UCI, cycling's world governing body, said an unidentified rider had failed a drug test during the Tour. The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the UCI on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 of the race last Thursday. Landis made a remarkable comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. He regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later. "The team management and the rider were both totally surprised of this physiological result," the Phonak statement said. Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake." Landis has been suspended by his team pending the results. If the second sample confirms the initial finding, he will be fired from the team, Phonak said. Landis failed to show up for a one-day race in Denmark on Thursday, a day after missing a scheduled event in the Netherlands. Dutch news agency ANP quoted his teammate Koos Moerenhout as saying that Landis had pain from his hip problem and had gone to see his doctor in Germany. He plans to have hip replacement surgery this fall to ease pain in the arthritic joint still aching from a 2003 crash during a training ride. "We were told by the other two riders that he couldn't join because he was traveling with team manager [John] Lelangue to his doctor in Germany," event organizer Theo van der Westerlaken said. "That's all we know." Landis did take part in a criterium race Tuesday in Stiphout, Netherlands, winning the event. Landis won the Tour de France on Sunday, keeping the title in U.S. hands for the eighth straight year after Lance Armstrong's record seven victories. On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders -- including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso -- were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation. The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

Oh shit. After Stage 17?

That's, well, disturbing.

Donger
07-27-2006, 08:58 AM
Lance did it.

ROFL

cdcox
07-27-2006, 09:02 AM
Oh shit. After Stage 17?

That's, well, disturbing.

Yep. Especially since Landis never had a day where he was super dominant like that in his past.

cdcox
07-27-2006, 09:04 AM
Thanks, cdcox




Donger actually provided much more accurate info. Its not only the level, but ratios of specific hormones and other signitures of testosterone doping.

StcChief
07-27-2006, 09:28 AM
Meninate....what would mamma say.

Baby Lee
07-27-2006, 09:31 AM
Meninate....what would mamma say.
Were you trying to type Mennonite, or Marinate, . . . or Serenade?

Donger
07-27-2006, 09:32 AM
Meninate....what would mamma say.

Arlene Landis, his mother, said Thursday that she wouldn't blame her son if he was taking medication to treat the pain in his injured hip, but "if it's something worse than that, then he doesn't deserve to win."

"I didn't talk to him since that hit the fan, but I'm keeping things even keel until I know what the facts are," she said in a phone interview from her home in Farmersville, Pa. "I know that this is a temptation to every rider but I'm not going to jump to conclusions ... It disappoints me."

Mr. Laz
07-27-2006, 10:15 AM
damnit :(

Braincase
07-27-2006, 10:22 AM
Oh shit. After Stage 17?

That's, well, disturbing.

Early reports state two Italian racing teams conspired to hire 4 hookers to distract the young American the night before stage seventeen. In the a.m. , Landis was heard saying, "Please babies, there's only so much schnitzelgruben a man can handle".

It is now suspected that his strange testosterone levels were due to his body anticipating another rompfest at the conclusion of the race.

ChiefsfaninPA
07-27-2006, 10:23 AM
The city I work in (Lancaster) is where he is from. All around the city they have congratulations Landis signage. I wonder if/when those are coming down.

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:25 AM
Steroid profiling has become an additional tool in dope control to detect changes in the normal pattern of excreted steroids. These changes may be the result of the misuse of testosterone, a precursor (androstenedione) or an active metabolite of testosterone (dihydrostestosterone) and/or long-term misuse of synthetic anabolic steroids.

Testing for testosterone administration has been routinely carried out by analysis of the ratio of testosterone glucuronide to epitestosterone glucuronide, usually known simply as the T/E ratio (Donike M. et al, 1985).

Considerations have varied slightly over the years and the present criterion for suspicion of testosterone administration is an abnormally elevated T/E ratio in urine. For some sport bodies the criterion is when the value exceeds the range normally found in humans and thought to be consistent with normal endogenous production. For other bodies, the rule is based on a ratio higher than the usual population (cut-off 6:1) but they accept the obligation to perform additional research in order to exclude the small percentage of people having high T/E ratios due to physiological or pathological conditions (Donike M. et al., 1993; Baezinger J. et al., 1994; Kicman A.T. et al., 1990).

Evidence has accumulated in recent years that T/E ratios are relatively stable in a given subject. Work carried out by different authors shows that deviations from a normal baseline value for a given individual should be the starting point for a suspicion of testosterone administration. It has also been shown that there exist, at least, two different classes of "normal" population, one with T/E values around 1-2 and another with T/E values of around 0.2-0.3, the latter mainly concentrated among the Mongoloid race group (Park J. et al., 1990; de la Torre X. et al., 1997).

Several authors have studied the effects of testosterone administration on many parameters and they have reached the conclusion that, if suitably chosen, some of these parameters may be highly indicative. Among the more interesting, there is the high increase in the testosterone/17 hydroxy-progesterone (T/17OHP) ratio and in the testosterone/luteinizing hormone (T/LH) ratio. The effects are based on the negative feedback of testosterone, both the release of LH by the hypophysis and the amount of some of its synthetic precursors present in the body, such as 17OHP.

Testosterone is usually administered as testosterone enanthate or as one of many other esters. These compounds were supposed to hydrolyse rapidly and completely in the body to release free testosterone. Modern methodology now allows us to determine that small amounts remain in the body for a long time. The finding of such compounds (exogenous: not existing in our body) in the blood would be indicative of testosterone administration (de la Torre X., et al., 199.).

It is possible to establish a list of generally accepted scientific facts that should be the basis for a rational approach to the problem of detection and confirmation of cases of testosterone doping. Those premises can be listed as follows:

1. T/E ratio in urine is fairly stable in a given individual

2. External testosterone administration disturbs some selected parameters such as T/17OHP in blood plasma and T/E in urine. The T/LH ratio both in blood plasma and urine is also affected. Many other markers have been studied in both plasma and urine but they have offered less definitive results.

3. The finding of esters of testosterone in blood plasma demonstrates testosterone administration.

How would a cyclist benefit from testosterone?

Mr. Laz
07-27-2006, 10:32 AM
How would a cyclist benefit from testosterone?

testosterone = energy
testosterone = recuperative power

Valiant
07-27-2006, 10:48 AM
Is the test just for Americans or will we hear about this from EU racers...

BIG_DADDY
07-27-2006, 11:00 AM
testosterone = energy
testosterone = recuperative power

I am curious to know if they test during different sections or if they only test once. Anybody know?

I gotta tell you I have absolutely no trust of the French at this point.

Somehow I think this is all Barry Bonds fault.

ct
07-27-2006, 11:01 AM
Wow, cycling is just in a really really sad state.

cdcox
07-27-2006, 11:03 AM
I know they test stage winners and the yellow jersey holder each day. They may do addiitonal tests further down the ranks or random testing too.

Ultra Peanut
07-27-2006, 11:03 AM
Arlene Landis, his mother, said Thursday that she wouldn't blame her son if he was taking medication to treat the pain in his injured hip, but "if it's something worse than that, then he doesn't deserve to win."

"I didn't talk to him since that hit the fan, but I'm keeping things even keel until I know what the facts are," she said in a phone interview from her home in Farmersville, Pa. "I know that this is a temptation to every rider but I'm not going to jump to conclusions ... It disappoints me."How awful would it be to go from overyjoyed by your child's achievements to seeing them tainted and taken away?

Ouch.

Mr. Laz
07-27-2006, 11:06 AM
I am curious to know if they test during different sections or if they only test once. Anybody know?

I gotta tell you I have absolutely no trust of the French at this point.

Somehow I think this is all Barry Bonds fault.

they have multiple tests


a base test performed pretty regularly throughout the season then spot tests during the races etc.

a spike in any of the test is compared to the last tests... it's the only way to catch Epo/Hgh/IGF-1 hormone type drugs.

heck IGF-1 Long R3 is a new really potent slin that only stays active for like 20 minutes in your system. It's only detectable by a comparison test because it's a bio-identical insulin release drug.

Donger
07-27-2006, 11:07 AM
I am curious to know if they test during different sections or if they only test once. Anybody know?

I gotta tell you I have absolutely no trust of the French at this point.

Somehow I think this is all Barry Bonds fault.

IIRC, the stage winner is always tested. Random tests take place frequently. Hell, the even test during the off-season. Armstrong wrote that they showed up at his house in Austin on more than one occasion.

BIG_DADDY
07-27-2006, 11:10 AM
I know they test stage winners and the yellow jersey holder each day. They may do addiitonal tests further down the ranks or random testing too.

Interesting.

BIG_DADDY
07-27-2006, 11:11 AM
they have multiple tests


a base test performed pretty regularly throughout the season then spot tests during the races etc.

a spike in any of the test is compared to the last tests... it's the only way to catch Epo/Hgh/IGF-1 hormone type drugs.

heck IGF-1 Long R3 is a new really potent slin that only stays active for like 20 minutes in your system. It's only detectable by a comparison test because it's a bio-identical insulin release drug.

I thought they had no ability to test for HGH

DiaperBoy27
07-27-2006, 11:11 AM
Somehow I think this is all Barry Bonds fault.

everything is Barry's fault. damn you Barry!

cdcox
07-27-2006, 11:14 AM
I was correct in my memory. Here is the official UCI rules, under which The Tour is conducted:

IV. Stage races (all disciplines, including prologues)
• General rule
1. The stage winner,
2. The leader on general classification after the stage,
3. Two riders selected at random by the inspector.

Thig Lyfe
07-27-2006, 11:14 AM
BS. The French are just bitter.

Bootlegged
07-27-2006, 11:15 AM
Who?

RedandGold
07-27-2006, 11:23 AM
The American, who claimed victory in the Tour de France on Sunday, has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone.


...as opposed to the French who have no testosterone?

Halfcan
07-27-2006, 12:19 PM
The French are dancing in the streets now.

Consistent1
07-27-2006, 12:21 PM
Oh, come on guys, Mr. bible beater didn't beat any innocent victims. Cycling has been a drug game for a long time, just the NFL, MLB, etc. The playing field IS EVEN....

BIG_DADDY
07-27-2006, 12:24 PM
Oh, come on guys, Mr. bible beater didn't beat any innocent victims. Cycling has been a drug game for a long time, just the NFL, MLB, etc. The playing field IS EVEN....

No way dude this is all Barry Bonds fault. :cuss: :mad:

Donger
07-27-2006, 02:30 PM
Looks like Landis is denying it:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:13 PM
Looks like this is a bongus charge

Read this below, something stinks BIG time here! He would have had to take the testosteroen for WEEKS to have any impact on his endurance and strength and yet he tests clean on every test before and during the tour until after he humiliates the Europeans in the stage 17 ride!

And yet the European Doping guy below doesn't even want to wait for a B sample the A sample is good enough for him! If Landis gets cleared we should retask one of those Cruise missles for the European Doping Union :-)

Landis was taking cortesone ( a steroid) shots with an exemption for his blow out hip and drank some Whiskey with his team mates drowning their sorrow after he cracked the day before, and a goodly amount of alcohol can throw these ratios off.

The test did NOT show an elevated Testoserone to begin with so it could possiobley have helped him it jsut showed an abnormally low epitestoserone leveel which skewed his ratio.

Also, consider this, Landis refused to EVER take a narcotic pain killing drug inspite of a necrotic hip socket which his docs said hurts like Holy Hell ,so this guy isnt going off to take testosterone for ONE day which would do him no good jsut to blow his enitre reputation!!

Something blows here for sure!

"USA Cycling spokesman Andy Lee said that organization could not comment until the process is complete. Carla O’Connell, publications and communications director for the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, also had no comment.

UCI spokesman Enrico Carpani said Landis requested the “B” sample, which is not required by cycling’s governing body.

“We are confident in the first (test),” Carpani said. “For us, the first one is already good.”

Tour director Christian Prudhomme stressed that the backup test still must be done, and it would be up to the UCI to determine penalties. It is obviously distressing,” he said at a Paris news conference.

Under World Anti-Doping Agency regulations, a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone greater than 4:1 is considered a positive result and subject to investigation. The threshold was recently lowered from 6:1. The most likely natural ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in humans is 1:1.

Testosterone is included as an anabolic steroid on WADA’s list of banned substances, and its use can be punished by a two-year ban.

Testosterone can build muscle and improve recovery time when used over a period of several weeks, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. But if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the tour would have been affected, he said.

“So something’s missing here,” Wadler said. “It just doesn’t add up.”

Landis’ inspiring Tour ride reminded many of fellow American Tyler Hamilton’s gutsy 2003 ride. Hamilton, riding for team CSC, broke his collarbone on the first day of the Tour but rode on, despite the pain, and finished fourth overall.

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:15 PM
So let the people know our guy didn't cheat.

Moooo
07-27-2006, 10:18 PM
I could give a flying f*ck less if he was American, French or Martian, what I saw said the red flag wasn't testosterone, but another chemical that was too low.

Moooo

OnTheWarpath58
07-27-2006, 10:21 PM
The French are just pissed that Americans keep winning their race.....

First Lance, now Landis.

I read somewhere that at one point, it had been determined that Armstrong had been tested 200+ times in one 365 day period.

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:24 PM
The French are just pissed that Americans keep winning their race.....

First Lance, now Landis.

I read somewhere that at one point, it had been determined that Armstrong had been tested 200+ times in one 365 day period.

That's why O laugh at Shitlock and farttard for saying that now they don't believe Lance was clean...he was the most tested man on the planet.

Consistent1
07-27-2006, 10:25 PM
Looks like this is a bongus charge

Read this below, something stinks BIG time here! He would have had to take the testosteroen for WEEKS to have any impact on his endurance and strength and yet he tests clean on every test before and during the tour until after he humiliates the Europeans in the stage 17 ride!

And yet the European Doping guy below doesn't even want to wait for a B sample the A sample is good enough for him! If Landis gets cleared we should retask one of those Cruise missles for the European Doping Union :-)

Landis was taking cortesone ( a steroid) shots with an exemption for his blow out hip and drank some Whiskey with his team mates drowning their sorrow after he cracked the day before, and a goodly amount of alcohol can throw these ratios off.

The test did NOT show an elevated Testoserone to begin with so it could possiobley have helped him it jsut showed an abnormally low epitestoserone leveel which skewed his ratio.

Also, consider this, Landis refused to EVER take a narcotic pain killing drug inspite of a necrotic hip socket which his docs said hurts like Holy Hell ,so this guy isnt going off to take testosterone for ONE day which would do him no good jsut to blow his enitre reputation!!

Something blows here for sure!

"USA Cycling spokesman Andy Lee said that organization could not comment until the process is complete. Carla O’Connell, publications and communications director for the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, also had no comment.

UCI spokesman Enrico Carpani said Landis requested the “B” sample, which is not required by cycling’s governing body.

“We are confident in the first (test),” Carpani said. “For us, the first one is already good.”

Tour director Christian Prudhomme stressed that the backup test still must be done, and it would be up to the UCI to determine penalties. It is obviously distressing,” he said at a Paris news conference.

Under World Anti-Doping Agency regulations, a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone greater than 4:1 is considered a positive result and subject to investigation. The threshold was recently lowered from 6:1. The most likely natural ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in humans is 1:1.

Testosterone is included as an anabolic steroid on WADA’s list of banned substances, and its use can be punished by a two-year ban.

Testosterone can build muscle and improve recovery time when used over a period of several weeks, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. But if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the tour would have been affected, he said.

“So something’s missing here,” Wadler said. “It just doesn’t add up.”

Landis’ inspiring Tour ride reminded many of fellow American Tyler Hamilton’s gutsy 2003 ride. Hamilton, riding for team CSC, broke his collarbone on the first day of the Tour but rode on, despite the pain, and finished fourth overall.


I think Landis was using, just like most of the other guys. How he got caught on something he should have been able to avoid, I do not know.

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:26 PM
I could give a flying f*ck less if he was American, French or Martian, what I saw said the red flag wasn't testosterone, but another chemical that was too low.

Moooo

That would be epitestosterone....alcohol can lower that level from the normal 1:1 ratio.

OnTheWarpath58
07-27-2006, 10:27 PM
That's why O laugh at Shitlock and farttard for saying that now they don't believe Lance was clean...he was the most tested man on the planet.

Lance would actually give the Agency a schedule of where he'd be, and when.

They'd show up unannounced at his home in Austin, at Cheryl's place in LA, at the gym........

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:27 PM
I think Landis was using, just like most of the other guys. How he got caught on something he should have been able to avoid, I do not know.

Using what you crazy uninformed guy? read the post....he wasn't using anything that was illegal...

Consistent1
07-27-2006, 10:34 PM
That's why O laugh at Shitlock and farttard for saying that now they don't believe Lance was clean...he was the most tested man on the planet.

Honestly, we have no idea how many times the guy was actually tested for real. My belief is that he just had a real good team to advise him. Armstrong was simply the best rider, there is nobody getting screwed. Maybe the kid on the BMX bike at the 7-11 might have beaten them all, but he just did not do drugs? Shit, the $30,000 bike would be cheating compared to what the old guys had. People need to realize that just like Hollywood stars get boob jobs, do HGH, etc....athletes do what they need to do. it is an entertainment job, with a lot on the line. Lance was the best, period..., just like Landis was the true winner...

Garcia Bronco
07-27-2006, 10:38 PM
Honestly, we have no idea how many times the guy was actually tested for real. My belief is that he just had a real good team to advise him. Armstrong was simply the best rider, there is nobody getting screwed. Maybe the kid on the BMX bike at the 7-11 might have beaten them all, but he just did not do drugs? Shit, the $30,000 bike would be cheating compared to what the old guys had. People need to realize that just like Hollywood stars get boob jobs, do HGH, etc....athletes do what they need to do. it is an entertainment job, with a lot on the line. Lance was the best, period..., just like Landis was the true winner...


That's niether here nor there...this guy is getting slandered left and right. Right now...in quakerville there are people camped outside his mother's home ready to pumple her with questions about her son being a cheater...wtf....all because of outright lies and distortions of the facts. That's the problem.

Consistent1
07-27-2006, 10:55 PM
That's niether here nor there...this guy is getting slandered left and right. Right now...in quakerville there are people camped outside his mother's home ready to pumple her with questions about her son being a cheater...wtf....all because of outright lies and distortions of the facts. That's the problem.

His mom has nothing to do with it. She seemingly opened her mouth when she should not have anyway. If you are in the situation, someone will always take down your qoutes. They should have just went and asked Jose Canseco if he thought landis was using. He would have opened his hypocritical mouth just like Landis' mom did. You know what the problem is here to me? She is just such a religious freak that she could not help herself from wanting attention for her agenda. "No comment" would have worked....

Garcia Bronco
07-28-2006, 11:46 AM
dang and the media is still reporting it wrong.

Braincase
07-28-2006, 11:50 AM
I'm still standing by my original explanation of excessive schnitzelgruben.

chief2000
07-28-2006, 12:01 PM
ESPN showed his testosterone at 10X normal.

His testes must be ripped.

Garcia Bronco
07-28-2006, 12:20 PM
ESPN showed his testosterone at 10X normal.

His testes must be ripped.

His testosterone level was normal...his epitestorone level was low. Espin is lying if that's whjat they have reported.