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Rain Man
07-27-2006, 02:57 PM
And my attic, too. Photos attached.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 02:59 PM
This was my kitchen as of yesterday.

BucEyedPea
07-27-2006, 03:00 PM
ewwwwww yukk!

I had you down for being more upscale than that. :hmmm:

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:02 PM
Here's a bigger view.

JimNasium
07-27-2006, 03:02 PM
I'll be interested to see what you did with the attic. That space had potential.

Bob Dole
07-27-2006, 03:03 PM
You need to set out some bowls of antifreeze before that pest population gets out of hand.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:04 PM
Wait. It won't show all the pictures. Let me do it one at a time.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:06 PM
Kitchen view 2.

Saulbadguy
07-27-2006, 03:07 PM
No, I don't. Please delete this thread.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:07 PM
ewwwwww yukk!

I had you down for being more upscale than that. :hmmm:


You were obviously mistaken.

StcChief
07-27-2006, 03:07 PM
You need to set out some bowls of antifreeze before that pest population gets out of hand.
Cat's smell but.....

ROFL

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:08 PM
And now from the other side.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:10 PM
And now for the attic.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:11 PM
You need to set out some bowls of antifreeze before that pest population gets out of hand.

Since we put them in our wills, we now refer to them as the Crown Princes.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:12 PM
The stairwell coming up to the attic.

Count Zarth
07-27-2006, 03:14 PM
Rain Man can't properly resize pictures. I'm disappointed.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:14 PM
A view from the big room of the attic into the hallway.

ChiefButthurt
07-27-2006, 03:15 PM
I know I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the other shoe to drop. I know there's a moral to the story.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:16 PM
No, I don't. Please delete this thread.


You'll be a guest in my house and you'll like it.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:17 PM
Rain Man can't properly resize pictures. I'm disappointed.

What's wrong with my pictures? They're perfect. They're exactly the size I want them to be.

Logical
07-27-2006, 03:18 PM
Here's a bigger view.Was your home built in the 50s Kevin?

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:18 PM
The big room, which was last updated in about 1942.

Donger
07-27-2006, 03:19 PM
How old is this house? 1950s?

JimNasium
07-27-2006, 03:21 PM
How old is this house? 1950s?
I'm guessing 1920's.

Count Zarth
07-27-2006, 03:22 PM
What's wrong with my pictures? They're perfect. They're exactly the size I want them to be.

What did you use, paint?

Logical
07-27-2006, 03:22 PM
The big room, which was last updated in about 1942.I would desribe your decorating style as early eccentric.ROFL

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:24 PM
Was your home built in the 50s Kevin?

Good guess. The house was built in 1906, but the kitchen was heavily remodeled in the early 1940s. You can see that the lower bank of cabinets is a different style that is original to the house, while the rest of the kitchen is from the 40s. The attic has 1940s wallpaper (or maybe 1950s), but where it has been torn, you can see the original 1906 wallpaper. Of course, most of that is below my National Geographic maps.

Logical
07-27-2006, 03:24 PM
What did you use, paint?

From the guy who messes up every thread so you have to scroll left to right with his pictures, I don't think I want you giving advise. Kevin's pictures are the perfect size.

Ari Chi3fs
07-27-2006, 03:25 PM
so is this a new house you recently bought? Or is it your current house?

stumppy
07-27-2006, 03:25 PM
Whats with all the maps?? in the attic ?



Edit:
Nevermind, just read your post.



On second thought. Whats with all the maps ?

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Now, in the kitchen, we've decided to make some changes and go with a minimalist look.

Donger
07-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Good guess. The house was built in 1906, but the kitchen was heavily remodeled in the early 1940s. You can see that the lower bank of cabinets is a different style that is original to the house, while the rest of the kitchen is from the 40s. The attic has 1940s wallpaper (or maybe 1950s), but where it has been torn, you can see the original 1906 wallpaper. Of course, most of that is below my National Geographic maps.

Is the brickwork original, from 1906?

Fish
07-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Something is not right here................

Donger
07-27-2006, 03:27 PM
From the guy who messes up every thread so you have to scroll left to right with his pictures, I don't think I want you giving advise. Kevin's pictures are the perfect size.

ROFL

I've noticed that, too.

Bugeater
07-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Whats with all the maps?? in the attic ?
Those are where he buried the bodies.

cdcox
07-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Didn't you say you're getting ready to re-model? Please post a photoshop of the remodeling job.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:27 PM
so is this a new house you recently bought? Or is it your current house?

I've lived here 10.5 years. The house turns 100 years old next month.

Count Zarth
07-27-2006, 03:28 PM
From the guy who messes up every thread so you have to scroll left to right with his pictures, I don't think I want you giving advise. Kevin's pictures are the perfect size.

Shut up, illogical.

Logical
07-27-2006, 03:28 PM
Now, in the kitchen, we've decided to make some changes and go with a minimalist look.

ROFL this will be the perfect room for your local crack whores to crash.

Donger
07-27-2006, 03:29 PM
Something is not right here................

Here's where I fed gruel to the 17 year old runaway.

JimNasium
07-27-2006, 03:29 PM
I've lived here 10.5 years. The house turns 100 years old next month.
It's a very cool house. He's showing you the two rooms that needed the most updating IMO.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:29 PM
My wife didn't want to leave the exposed pipe, but I thought it was avant-garde.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:30 PM
Whats with all the maps?? in the attic ?



Edit:
Nevermind, just read your post.



On second thought. Whats with all the maps ?


If you could cover an entire room with maps, wouldn't you do it? I had a different wall section for each continent.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:31 PM
This part we left as is, though we may make some changes later.

BucEyedPea
07-27-2006, 03:32 PM
The big room, which was last updated in about 1942.


This renovated would make a great little design studio for a work-at-home type. I could fix that up real nice.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:34 PM
We've been debating what to do with the attic, but then the meteor hit.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:35 PM
Is the brickwork original, from 1906?

Yeah. It's in spectacular shape, too. There's only one place on the house where we've had any degradation.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:37 PM
The meteor took out most of the back of the roof and attic, so we're going to replace it with a small balcony.

Donger
07-27-2006, 03:38 PM
Yeah. It's in spectacular shape, too. There's only one place on the house where we've had any degradation.

Wow. That's amazing. Cliche, I know, but they don't build them like they used to. My house will be a pile of rubble in 50 years, let alone one hundred.

I grew in a house that 125 years old. Loved it.

JimNasium
07-27-2006, 03:38 PM
The meteor took out most of the back of the roof and attic, so we're going to replace it with a small balcony.
Were there any historical provisions or considerations for modifying the exterior of the home?

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:39 PM
Here's the hole that the meteor made. Everything on the other side of the tarp is sky.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:42 PM
Were there any historical provisions or considerations for modifying the exterior of the home?

Yeah. We can't change the front of the house or put in any skylights. Also, we can't make the house any taller because we're in a "height restriction zone" from that Colonnade that I drove you by in the park. They want the park to have a mountain view, so everything in a big cone west of it can't be over a certain height. Interestingly, our house is only about a foot short of the height, so we couldn't build a traditional dormer on the back of the house or it would violate that code. Apparently the height restriction has precedence over the historic stuff (at least on the back of the house), so they are letting us build a third-floor (roofless) deck that's not historically fitting to the home.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:45 PM
Wow. That's amazing. Cliche, I know, but they don't build them like they used to. My house will be a pile of rubble in 50 years, let alone one hundred.

I grew in a house that 125 years old. Loved it.

I do love this house. When we bought it, it needed a lot of care, but at the same time all of the basic infrastructure was in great shape. It's even still got the old knob-and-tube wiring in many places, but we were told that it's in such good shape that it wasn't worthwhile to replace it.

Interestingly, it's got both electrical circuits and natural gas lines going to the light fixtures. Apparently they wanted a backup plan in case that whole "electric light" stuff turned out to be a fad.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:46 PM
This renovated would make a great little design studio for a work-at-home type. I could fix that up real nice.

You mean our new master bedroom suite?

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:47 PM
Here's another view.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:52 PM
Okay, okay, I admit it. It wasn't a meteor. We're remodeling. We're completely replacing the kitchen, and we're converting the attic to a master bedroom suite. We'll be redoing all of the walls with the map and we're adding a little balcony on the back of the house to hold our swamp cooler and have a little table and chairs.

The house turns 100 next month, and we're hoping to either get an article in the local paper, which has a weekly "check out this house" article on Saturdays, or get it on the local home tour.

KChiefsQT
07-27-2006, 03:53 PM
I'm signing you up for Extreme Home Makeover, cause you got yourself a mess there. Can you come up with a really devastating storyline we could use to get you on the show?

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 03:55 PM
I'm signing you up for Extreme Home Makeover, cause you got yourself a mess there. Can you come up with a really devastating storyline we could use to get you on the show?

I'm a refugee from the fighting in Iraq, and I came to this country with nothing more than the clothes on my back and a solid gold toilet from one of Saddam's palaces. From there on out, it was just hard work and plucky grit. Or maybe gritty pluck.

stevieray
07-27-2006, 03:57 PM
yup, that's your kitchen.

BucEyedPea
07-27-2006, 05:01 PM
You mean our new master bedroom suite?


Uh...oh! You were calling it an attic so I assumed you had a master bedroom already!

Now that we've seen your kitchen can we see your operation? :)

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:12 PM
Uh...oh! You were calling it an attic so I assumed you had a master bedroom already!

Now that we've seen your kitchen can we see your operation? :)

Well...I guess so. But the scar is pretty much all healed.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:14 PM
Uh...oh! You were calling it an attic so I assumed you had a master bedroom already!

Now that we've seen your kitchen can we see your operation? :)

The old office/den is becoming a library/office.

The old TV room is becoming a guest room/reading room.

The old master bedroom is becoming a TV room/den.

The old attic storage is becoming the master bedroom.

BucEyedPea
07-27-2006, 05:21 PM
The old office/den is becoming a library/office.

The old TV room is becoming a guest room/reading room.

The old master bedroom is becoming a TV room/den.

The old attic storage is becoming the master bedroom.
So you plan on having no guests?
What no other bedrooms besides the master bedroom?

PatPatriot
07-27-2006, 05:22 PM
On second thought. Whats with all the maps ?

What do you expect from a master Diplomacy Strategist.....?


(England you #@%@#$@#).... ;o)

OldTownChief
07-27-2006, 05:23 PM
So you plan on having no guests?
What no other bedrooms besides the master bedroom?

I took this part:
The old TV room is becoming a guest room/reading room.
to mean:
The old TV room is becoming a guest room/reading room.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:23 PM
So you plan on having no guests?
What no other bedrooms besides the master bedroom?

Nobody ever visits me. It's enigmatic.

But actually, my wife is pushing hard to turn the old TV room into a guest room, complete with bed and everything. I don't want to waste an entire room with an empty bed that'll get used twice a decade, so I'm pushing hard for just putting a nice, high-quality sleeper sofa in there and making it a reading room that can be converted to a guest room.

Anyone have any comments/opinions about guest rooms? Do you have a dedicated guest room? A sleeper sofa? What's the best route?

BucEyedPea
07-27-2006, 05:24 PM
I took this part:
The old TV room is becoming a guest room/reading room.
to mean:
The old TV room is becoming a guest room/reading room.

Dens, TV rooms in an old house=former bedrooms, usually.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
What do you expect from a master Diplomacy Strategist.....?


(England you #@%@#$@#).... ;o)

Uh, if you were Germany, I apologize.

hypersensitiveZO6
07-27-2006, 05:28 PM
Nice house, Rain Man!

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:30 PM
Nice house, Rain Man!

Why, thanks. I think it'll be even better when we finish the remodeling.

OldTownChief
07-27-2006, 05:33 PM
Why, thanks. I think it'll be even better when we finish the remodeling.

When will you start on the kitchen?

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:36 PM
When will you start on the kitchen?

Probably about two days ago.

hypersensitiveZO6
07-27-2006, 05:37 PM
Why, thanks. I think it'll be even better when we finish the remodeling.
You'll never be finished remodeling, especially when you're married.

Trust me, I'm experienced. :p

Donger
07-27-2006, 05:39 PM
Nobody ever visits me. It's enigmatic.

But actually, my wife is pushing hard to turn the old TV room into a guest room, complete with bed and everything. I don't want to waste an entire room with an empty bed that'll get used twice a decade, so I'm pushing hard for just putting a nice, high-quality sleeper sofa in there and making it a reading room that can be converted to a guest room.

Anyone have any comments/opinions about guest rooms? Do you have a dedicated guest room? A sleeper sofa? What's the best route?

Do NOT put a bed in there.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Do NOT put a bed in there.

That's what I keep saying. It's a total waste of a room, especially given the poor visitor traffic we get. (And Rausch, if you're coming into town, I, uh, I have a remodeling project going on.) It's much better to put a sleeper sofa in there and get some use out of the room.

alanm
07-27-2006, 05:45 PM
Here's the hole that the meteor made. Everything on the other side of the tarp is sky.
Are you serious about the meteor? When did that happen? :eek:

Donger
07-27-2006, 05:46 PM
That's what I keep saying. It's a total waste of a room, especially given the poor visitor traffic we get. (And Rausch, if you're coming into town, I, uh, I have a remodeling project going on.) It's much better to put a sleeper sofa in there and get some use out of the room.

My wife was the same way, but it's one fight that I wouldn't give up. We have guests maybe once a year for a few days.

It's a waste of space if it's only a 'guest bedroom.'

stevieray
07-27-2006, 05:48 PM
Do NOT put a bed in there.


Because that's where daddy sleeps when momma is pissed off.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:48 PM
My wife was the same way, but it's one fight that I wouldn't give up. We have guests maybe once a year for a few days.

It's a waste of space if it's only a 'guest bedroom.'

Completely agree. I'm fighting that one hard.


Just got our first emergency. They're putting the joists in the attic, and are collapsing the plaster ceiling in our master bedroom. My wife is not happy about it, which means that I need to work really, really late tonight.

Rain Man
07-27-2006, 05:49 PM
Are you serious about the meteor? When did that happen? :eek:

Meteor...foreign day laborer with sledge hammer...I have trouble telling them apart.

BucEyedPea
07-27-2006, 05:58 PM
My wife was the same way, but it's one fight that I wouldn't give up. We have guests maybe once a year for a few days.

It's a waste of space if it's only a 'guest bedroom.'


Well, when you live in Florida with family in NE one has to have a guest bedroom...plus some sleep sofa's elswhere to boot.

Bugeater
07-27-2006, 06:29 PM
Nobody ever visits me. It's enigmatic.

But actually, my wife is pushing hard to turn the old TV room into a guest room, complete with bed and everything. I don't want to waste an entire room with an empty bed that'll get used twice a decade, so I'm pushing hard for just putting a nice, high-quality sleeper sofa in there and making it a reading room that can be converted to a guest room.

Anyone have any comments/opinions about guest rooms? Do you have a dedicated guest room? A sleeper sofa? What's the best route?
We have a guest room in our house, it's been used twice in the 7 years we've lived here. I wish I could add the space to my garage somehow.

Donger
07-27-2006, 06:34 PM
one has to have a guest bedroom

Silence the female! You DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A GUEST BEDROOM!

That's why God invented the Residence Inn by Marriott. That's where my in-laws stay when they visit 'me.'

Donger
07-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Because that's where daddy sleeps when momma is pissed off.

That's where when she's just a little pissed off. Sometimes it's the deck.

It pisses her off (and then makes her laugh) when I comment how nice it is to sleep outside in Denver in the summer. Sucks in the winter, though, although that's been done, too.

KcMizzou
07-27-2006, 06:50 PM
Anyone have any comments/opinions about guest rooms? Do you have a dedicated guest room? A sleeper sofa? What's the best route?Give 'em a pillow, blanket... and an empty spot on the carpet.

Demonpenz
07-27-2006, 06:52 PM
that house makes me want to pour soup on someone

Rain Man
08-01-2006, 09:17 AM
You want to hear something cool?

I had a meeting with the contractor, and we were standing in the kitchen talking. The kitchen is still down to the bare walls right now, since they're working on the attic right now.

While we were talking, I looked over at the wall, and there was a little tiny piece of paper stuck to it. I went over and looked more closely, and it was a stamp like this:

http://www.findyourstampsvalue.com/samples/images/388.jpg

It was behind our pantry shelf, and had apparently fallen through a crack almost a hundred years ago. It was just barely stuck to the wall, so I was able to get it off pretty easily. The bottom 20 percent was torn off, but it was still stuck to the wall, too, so I got the whole stamp.

I need to drag out my old stamp collecting book to see exactly what year it's from, because there were a bunch of similar stamps like this that were produced between 1890 and 1910. Given the age of the house, I would imagine that it's from the later part of that era.

I know it's not worth anything in its condition, but the cool part to me was finding an item that most likely belonged to the very first residents of the home.

Moooo
08-01-2006, 09:20 AM
You want to hear something cool?

I had a meeting with the contractor, and we were standing in the kitchen talking. The kitchen is still down to the bare walls right now, since they're working on the attic right now.

While we were talking, I looked over at the wall, and there was a little tiny piece of paper stuck to it. I went over and looked more closely, and it was a stamp like this:

http://www.findyourstampsvalue.com/samples/images/388.jpg

It was behind our pantry shelf, and had apparently fallen through a crack almost a hundred years ago. It was just barely stuck to the wall, so I was able to get it off pretty easily. The bottom 20 percent was torn off, but it was still stuck to the wall, too, so I got the whole stamp.

I need to drag out my old stamp collecting book to see exactly what year it's from, because there were a bunch of similar stamps like this that were produced between 1890 and 1910. Given the age of the house, I would imagine that it's from the later part of that era.

I know it's not worth anything in its condition, but the cool part to me was finding an item that most likely belonged to the very first residents of the home.

Cool find!

At my old house it had 160 acres and the person who owned it before us in the 50s was quite the alcoholic. So even after 50 years of having the house in our family you'd go along and find an old bourbon bottle outside that was 50-some years old... Not as cool as your story, but that's all I got :)

Moooo

Inspector
08-01-2006, 01:33 PM
Kevin - We restored a house built in 1902. Very similar to yours - an American Four square, I believe.

We found a stamp from 1920, old liquor bottles inside the walls, signatures of wall paper hangers from 1908 and 1926, and a handwritten note from a 12 year old girl talking about how Japan had just attacked the United States in Pearl Harbor.

It was a very interesting experience. Took about 6-7 years to complete, but was a real jewel when we were done. Lots and lots of stories about the whole project.

We had to eventually sell it as it was an hour commute to work, but we sold it for 7 times what we had in it. It was a great investment and good home for us to raise 5 kids as it was 3 stories and about 4000 sq ft.

Ah, the memories. Good luck with your project and post your "after" pictures when you get it done.

BucEyedPea
08-01-2006, 01:58 PM
Silence the female! You DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A GUEST BEDROOM!

Okay then...call it the hospitality suite if you prefer. :p

patteeu
08-01-2006, 02:00 PM
What do you expect from a master Diplomacy Strategist.....?


(England you #@%@#$@#).... ;o)

Czar Nicholas, is that you?

King Vittorio Emanuelle III

patteeu
08-01-2006, 02:04 PM
Good luck with the renovations, Rain Man. The attic master bedroom will be nice and roomy. :thumb:

Rain Man
08-04-2006, 12:03 PM
Kevin - We restored a house built in 1902. Very similar to yours - an American Four square, I believe.

We found a stamp from 1920, old liquor bottles inside the walls, signatures of wall paper hangers from 1908 and 1926, and a handwritten note from a 12 year old girl talking about how Japan had just attacked the United States in Pearl Harbor.



Ours is a Four Square too, but I think there may be some local design differences, because they're referred to here as "Denver Squares."

The Pearl Harbor note would've been way cool to find. The electrical guys just found a Collier's magazine from July 11, 1942, somewhere in our attic walls, so I was checking it out last night. A bunch of pictures are cut out, presumably for a school project, and in lettering that looks like a younger girl's writing, there are the initials "V.C." on one of the pages. It makes sense since the residents of our house in 1942 was a family named Christner. We didn't know if they had any kids, though.

Inspector
08-04-2006, 01:10 PM
Ours is a Four Square too, but I think there may be some local design differences, because they're referred to here as "Denver Squares."

The Pearl Harbor note would've been way cool to find. The electrical guys just found a Collier's magazine from July 11, 1942, somewhere in our attic walls, so I was checking it out last night. A bunch of pictures are cut out, presumably for a school project, and in lettering that looks like a younger girl's writing, there are the initials "V.C." on one of the pages. It makes sense since the residents of our house in 1942 was a family named Christner. We didn't know if they had any kids, though.
Stuff that comes out of those old houses are a lot of fun. Good luck with your project. It's very rewarding when you get done and they make a great place to live.

Hope you can post the after pictures.

Rain Man
08-14-2006, 02:55 PM
We are in our darkest hour now. The attic is full of construction equipment. The master bedroom ceiling has partially collapsed, forcing an evacuation of all furniture and clothing from that region. The other two bedrooms are full of these refugees. The living room is teeming with refugee furniture fleeing the devastation of the dining room and the kitchen. The basement is dark and abandoned with no power and structural enhancement underway. We ourselves have fled, and have only a bed and about 50 square feet of living space. Dirt and debris are everywhere. Strange men with nail guns walk the halls. There is no power, and only limited water. God help us all.

Bootlegged
08-14-2006, 02:56 PM
We are in our darkest hour now. The attic is full of construction equipment. The master bedroom ceiling has partially collapsed, forcing an evacuation of all furniture and clothing from that region. The other two bedrooms are full of these refugees. The living room is teeming with refugee furniture fleeing the devastation of the dining room and the kitchen. The basement is dark and abondoned with no power and structural enhancement underway. We ourselves have fled, and have only a bed and about 50 square feet of living space. Dirt and debris are everywhere. Strange men with nail guns walk the halls. There is no power, and only limited water. God help us all.

Call Oprah. She'll be there to help with a crew of 100's. You are black, right?

BucEyedPea
08-14-2006, 03:42 PM
We are in our darkest hour now. The attic is full of construction equipment. The master bedroom ceiling has partially collapsed, forcing an evacuation of all furniture and clothing from that region. The other two bedrooms are full of these refugees. The living room is teeming with refugee furniture fleeing the devastation of the dining room and the kitchen. The basement is dark and abandoned with no power and structural enhancement underway. We ourselves have fled, and have only a bed and about 50 square feet of living space. Dirt and debris are everywhere. Strange men with nail guns walk the halls. There is no power, and only limited water. God help us all.
Many people move out during a major renovation like this.
I'm surprised they let you stay.

PS Don't ruin y'er shoes. K?

Chief Faithful
08-14-2006, 03:46 PM
Forget about guest bedroom make it a guest room for Chiefs fans. Put in a couple big screen TV's (watch multiple games at once), beer cooler, big couch, couple lazy boys, wet bar and put framed pictures of models in Chiefs swim wear (stay away from pictures of Chiefs cheerleaders keep the place exciting).

Hoover
08-14-2006, 03:53 PM
Very cool place. I love brick homes, I bought one last year, all brick for 1917, Red tile roof. The thing is solid, and a bitch to heat.

DaKCMan AP
08-14-2006, 04:27 PM
Nobody ever visits me. It's enigmatic.

But actually, my wife is pushing hard to turn the old TV room into a guest room, complete with bed and everything. I don't want to waste an entire room with an empty bed that'll get used twice a decade, so I'm pushing hard for just putting a nice, high-quality sleeper sofa in there and making it a reading room that can be converted to a guest room.

Anyone have any comments/opinions about guest rooms? Do you have a dedicated guest room? A sleeper sofa? What's the best route?


Get a futon. Much more comfortable when used as a bed than a sleeper-sofa.

StcChief
08-14-2006, 06:01 PM
This should spark a poll

how long until Rain Man (or the mrs.) forces a move out.

Calcountry
08-14-2006, 06:02 PM
This was my kitchen as of yesterday.At least Quicksssurfer knows where his kitty is now.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 08:51 AM
We have light!

We have ... (sinking to knees with fists clenched in air and tears running down my cheeks)...light (sobbing with joy).

For the first time in ten weeks, all of the lighting in our living area is back in place. The new third-floor bedroom is all done except for the carpeting and the curtain-thingies on the closet, and the new balcony up there is just awaiting paint and the move of the swamp cooler, which for some reason has been a major problem area. In the kitchen and dining room, all of the structural work is done, and the new kitchen floor is installed. The base cabinets are in, and we'll have to shut that down for a week while we're waiting for the countertops to be installed. The second floor structural repairs, lighting, and painting should be done today, which will be huge - all of a sudden we'll have room to at least put the packed boxes somewhere as opposed to the places where we're living.

And last but certainly not least, the basement structural stuff is done now, and we should get power back to the laundry room "soon". Additionally, our cat door has been installed in a basement window, along with a little tiny flight of cat-sized stairs so they can get to it. One of them has already learned how to use it, and the other one can figure out the stairs but hasn't quite got the hang of the door yet. (Push! Push with your nose!)

Fish
10-03-2006, 08:58 AM
Does this mean your ready to have us all over for a house-warming party? I'll bring the burro, cheap tequila, and the watermellon.....

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 09:02 AM
A burro would actually be nice to have in the backyard.

Skip Towne
10-03-2006, 09:08 AM
A burro would actually be nice to have in the backyard.
You seem like a floppy eared rabbit kind of guy moreso than a burro.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 09:10 AM
You seem like a floppy eared rabbit kind of guy moreso than a burro.

I...uh...

I've got no comeback for that.

Skip Towne
10-03-2006, 09:16 AM
I...uh...

I've got no comeback for that.
They are really fun little animals. Tame and docile. A customer had two of them in his back yard and I had to be careful not to step on them.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 09:21 AM
I never thought about having free-range rabbits in my back yard. I wonder if they could learn to use the little cat stairs in the basement.

Phobia
10-03-2006, 09:23 AM
I wanted to see your kitchen, not hear some lame text description of the progress. Jeesh. Stupid n00bs.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 09:26 AM
I wanted to see your kitchen, not hear some lame text description of the progress. Jeesh. Stupid n00bs.

Three weeks 'til the unveiling. We don't yet have all of the semi-precious jewels inlaid into the marble.

Phobia
10-03-2006, 10:11 AM
If they told you 3 weeks plan on 4, unless they really plan to be done in 2 weeks and they've already given themselves an extra week cushion - in which case they're very experienced and you should be very happy with their work - except for the damn architect.

buddha
10-03-2006, 12:13 PM
Please show us the pit in the basement where, "It puts the lotion in the basket!" :spock:

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 12:15 PM
If they told you 3 weeks plan on 4, unless they really plan to be done in 2 weeks and they've already given themselves an extra week cushion - in which case they're very experienced and you should be very happy with their work - except for the damn architect.

They told me September 13th, so I'm assuming November 1st. Unless the doors don't come in on time.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 12:20 PM
Please show us the pit in the basement where, "It puts the lotion in the basket!" :spock:

We actually have something that looks like that. There's a big filled-in concrete place where someone took out the old coal furnace, and it looks like a poorly covered up entrance to a pit. If the police ever search my house for bodies, I'm going to laugh as they dig up all that concrete, because that's the first place they'll look.

Unless of course there really are bodies in there from some past owner, in which case, boy, will my face be red.

patteeu
10-03-2006, 02:06 PM
We actually have something that looks like that. There's a big filled-in concrete place where someone took out the old coal furnace, and it looks like a poorly covered up entrance to a pit. If the police ever search my house for bodies, I'm going to laugh as they dig up all that concrete, because that's the first place they'll look.

Unless of course there really are bodies in there from some past owner, in which case, boy, will my face be red.

Will you still be laughing when they find the remains of the dead bodies that the previous owner really did bury there?

PS Congratulations on getting part of your house back.

Skip Towne
10-03-2006, 02:23 PM
I never thought about having free-range rabbits in my back yard. I wonder if they could learn to use the little cat stairs in the basement.
I'm sure they could use the cat stairs. He said he housebroke them.

Iowanian
10-03-2006, 03:23 PM
I've done and seen enough renovation to be able to visualize what you're doing.

I'm sure it will be much improved when completed. Alot of people can't picture an unpolished diamond will actually sparkle.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 04:06 PM
It better look improved when it's done....

I just got a call from the chandelier people in my dining room. I ordered a brand new design, and it's late in arriving. They said, "It turns out that it still has to pass one more test with Underwriters Laboratories before we can send it out." I think I may have bought the first one in the nation.

bogie
10-03-2006, 04:51 PM
It better look improved when it's done....

I just got a call from the chandelier people in my dining room. I ordered a brand new design, and it's late in arriving. They said, "It turns out that it still has to pass one more test with Underwriters Laboratories before we can send it out." I think I may have bought the first one in the nation.

Did they give you an eta on the chandelier?

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 04:56 PM
Did they give you an eta on the chandelier?

They said two weeks assuming it passes. I'm a little unnerved by this, though. I may have to check and make sure it's got the UL tag when I get it.

bogie
10-03-2006, 05:21 PM
They said two weeks assuming it passes. I'm a little unnerved by this, though. I may have to check and make sure it's got the UL tag when I get it.

I would come up with a plan B on the chandelier. By the way congrats on the renovation. I know it's stressful, but how exciting when it's finally done.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 05:29 PM
I would come up with a plan B on the chandelier. By the way congrats on the renovation. I know it's stressful, but how exciting when it's finally done.

But...but...it's the coolest chandelier ever. It's "The Wave".

http://www.schonbek.com/mate/art/RE3214JG.jpg

(Mine's white crystal, not this darker color.)

bogie
10-03-2006, 05:39 PM
But...but...it's the coolest chandelier ever. It's "The Wave".

http://www.schonbek.com/mate/art/RE3214JG.jpg

(Mine's white crystal, not this darker color.)

Wow, that is a work of art.
When delays start happening, I start worrying that months and months may go by and I may still not get the item. I'd have a plan B in case you get tired of waiting. But that's just me.

JBucc
10-03-2006, 05:40 PM
But...but...it's the coolest chandelier ever. It's "The Wave".

http://www.schonbek.com/mate/art/RE3214JG.jpg

(Mine's white crystal, not this darker color.)Wow. That's hideous. When I look at it I get the urge to grab a chair and beat the hell out of it.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 05:52 PM
Wow. That's hideous. When I look at it I get the urge to grab a chair and beat the hell out of it.

You just lost your invitation to my next dinner party.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 05:54 PM
Wow, that is a work of art.
When delays start happening, I start worrying that months and months may go by and I may still not get the item. I'd have a plan B in case you get tired of waiting. But that's just me.

Yeah, it is a little worrisome. We'll see how it progresses.

The challenge is that my dining room is very long and narrow, something like 11 feet by 22 feet. Conventional chandeliers won't really look good in it. We need something less round and more long, like "The Wave".

eChief
10-03-2006, 05:59 PM
I'm a refugee from the fighting in Iraq, and I came to this country with nothing more than the clothes on my back and a solid gold toilet from one of Saddam's palaces. From there on out, it was just hard work and plucky grit. Or maybe gritty pluck.

That's a little more plucked up than I thought it would be.

That is alot of work to do for a remodel, you must have money pouring out of your ***!

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 06:03 PM
That's a little more plucked up than I thought it would be.

That is alot of work to do for a remodel, you must have money pouring out of your ***!

I'm hemorrhaging money right now on this remodel. It's brutal. By the time it's all over with, it'll be almost as much as I paid for the house ten years ago.

bogie
10-03-2006, 06:26 PM
I'm hemorrhaging money right now on this remodel. It's brutal. By the time it's all over with, it'll be almost as much as I paid for the house ten years ago.

If you're going to live in it for a while and you're remodeling for your enjoyment, it's all good. On the other hand, if you're remodeling to sale right now, your timing ain't too good.

Rain Man
10-03-2006, 06:37 PM
If you're going to live in it for a while and you're remodeling for your enjoyment, it's all good. On the other hand, if you're remodeling to sale right now, your timing ain't too good.

Nothing's ever predictable, but the plan right now is to have my heirs sell the place in 2073 after I die peacefully in my sleep.

bogie
10-03-2006, 07:04 PM
Nothing's ever predictable, but the plan right now is to have my heirs sell the place in 2073 after I die peacefully in my sleep.

You might want to show your heirs that chandelier before you install it. :)

Simply Red
10-03-2006, 07:35 PM
Okay, okay, I admit it. It wasn't a meteor. We're remodeling. We're completely replacing the kitchen, and we're converting the attic to a master bedroom suite. We'll be redoing all of the walls with the map and we're adding a little balcony on the back of the house to hold our swamp cooler and have a little table and chairs.

The house turns 100 next month, and we're hoping to either get an article in the local paper, which has a weekly "check out this house" article on Saturdays, or get it on the local home tour.


Good for you RM. It needed it. No offense.

Bugeater
10-03-2006, 07:54 PM
But...but...it's the coolest chandelier ever. It's "The Wave".

http://www.schonbek.com/mate/art/RE3214JG.jpg

(Mine's white crystal, not this darker color.)
A real man would just install one of these in his dining room:
http://www.lindequipment.net/lighting/8050103sm.jpg

Rain Man
10-16-2006, 04:18 PM
Today's a big day. At six o'clock, we'll pulley the bed and bedroom furniture up the outside of the house and in through the new balcony. The stairs have two 90 degree turns, so we can't just carry them up.

If all goes well, I'll be sleeping in my new bedroom tonight. If all goes poorly, I'll be sleeping on an air mattress with my furniture in splinters in my back yard.

Bugeater
10-16-2006, 04:28 PM
Pulley? Yikes.

Phobia
10-16-2006, 04:50 PM
That all seems very complicated. I'll bet your forefathers would be disappointed.

Rain Man
10-16-2006, 05:01 PM
I'm curious to see how this comes off. I have an odd feeling of foreboding.

StcChief
10-16-2006, 06:08 PM
Homeowners cover pull contreption furniture moves....
are movers covered...

Rain Man
10-16-2006, 10:46 PM
:banghead:

Rain Man
10-16-2006, 10:46 PM
:banghead: :banghead:

Rain Man
10-16-2006, 10:53 PM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


They put the refrigerator in today. It's more or less on the inside of an L-shaped section of the cabinets.

The architect didn't take into account the depth of the refrigerator. The cabinet door that's 90 degrees from the refrigerator won't open all the way, which means that we can't pull out the rolling shelves inside it. Plus, she designed the door opening too small and we had to cut three inches off of one of the cabinets on the inside of the L-shaped area. As a result, we learned that we can't open the refrigerator door all the way, which means we can't open the drawers in the refrigerator.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I think we can salvage it by pulling two big sections of cabinetry out and shuffling them around to move the refrigerator.

I hope.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Bugeater
10-16-2006, 11:14 PM
she
There's your problem right there.

Phobia
10-17-2006, 12:04 AM
You should have paid that architect more money. Heh heh.

Rausch
10-17-2006, 12:30 AM
And my attic, too. Photos attached.

I wanted to 5 years ago but you threw a fit just because you didn't want stomach acid on it...

SLAG
10-17-2006, 12:46 AM
so was it splinters and air matresses or NASA's best Sleep Number Craftmatic Adjustable Waterbed?

DenverChief
10-17-2006, 01:05 AM
nice ....can't wait to see it maybe I can bring a pizza on one of these sundays I don't work watch some Chiefs and get a look at the remodel :)

wilas101
10-17-2006, 08:18 AM
There's your problem right there.



The sexist part of my personality must agree.

I knew this chick once who was an industrial engineer. (I believe now industrial engineers are engineering students with learning disabilities... kind of like how the retarted kids who had class next to the boiler room got diploma's like everyone else)

Anyway, she rearranged the plant I worked at about 10 years ago.... new offices, departmental areas, ect. Work started and they realized they were a few feet short of the amount of space they needed. Turned out she failed to figure the thickness of her walls in her plans.

She got a new job not long after that. :/

bogie
10-17-2006, 10:25 AM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


They put the refrigerator in today. It's more or less on the inside of an L-shaped section of the cabinets.

The architect didn't take into account the depth of the refrigerator. The cabinet door that's 90 degrees from the refrigerator won't open all the way, which means that we can't pull out the rolling shelves inside it. Plus, she designed the door opening too small and we had to cut three inches off of one of the cabinets on the inside of the L-shaped area. As a result, we learned that we can't open the refrigerator door all the way, which means we can't open the drawers in the refrigerator.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I think we can salvage it by pulling two big sections of cabinetry out and shuffling them around to move the refrigerator.

I hope.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:



:banghead: Holy crap. Your architect might want to invest in a tape measure? Who will be re-working the cabinets to make the frig fit? Who will be paying for that?

Bugeater
10-17-2006, 10:35 AM
The sexist part of my personality must agree.

I knew this chick once who was an industrial engineer. (I believe now industrial engineers are engineering students with learning disabilities... kind of like how the retarted kids who had class next to the boiler room got diploma's like everyone else)

Anyway, she rearranged the plant I worked at about 10 years ago.... new offices, departmental areas, ect. Work started and they realized they were a few feet short of the amount of space they needed. Turned out she failed to figure the thickness of her walls in her plans.

She got a new job not long after that. :/
If there's anything I learned during the five years I worked in the construction field, it's that women shouldn't be involved in any part of the process.

StcChief
10-17-2006, 10:40 AM
:banghead: Holy crap. Your architect might want to invest in a tape measure? Who will be re-working the cabinets to make the frig fit? Who will be paying for that?

so your remodel was her first paying gig. OJT at it's best....
:rolleyes:

As long as they haven't been paid you have leverage.

Rain Man
10-17-2006, 02:23 PM
so was it splinters and air matresses or NASA's best Sleep Number Craftmatic Adjustable Waterbed?

Operation Bedroom Winch was a great success, other than my wife's disapproval of the code name Operation Bedroom Winch. It was particularly successful for me because the construction guys did it before I could get home to help. I was pleased that I didn't have to do anything, but at the same time I would've liked to have seen them do it.

The cabinet thing is quite frustrating. I honestly can't go back on my incompetent architect on all of it, because she got escorted to a seat by the window weeks ago. The decision to cut that critical three inches out of the cabinet was mine. (However, one of the cabinet doors still wouldn't have worked even with her original design, and I had to cut out the three inches because of another design weakness on our drawings.)

I'm optimistic that we can lose a day and shuffle the refrigerator and the pantry, which are right next to each other. If they can be reversed, we have no problem. Right now, I think that'll be possible and hopefully not even that hard, but I haven't heard back from the cabinet people to confirm. We're using pre-fab cabinet boxes that are being custom-installed, and it looks to me like we can remove about six feet of cabinetry and reverse it without having to replace materials. I sure hope so.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 10:35 AM
4 months ago

Granite saleswoman: May I help you?

Me: I want to buy granite countertops.

(Conversation ensues.)

Me: I want the backsplash to look like this. It's kind of unusual. Can you do that?

Granite saleswoman: Yes.

Me: Then we have a deal.



1 month ago

Granite cutter: Here's your granite. How do you want it cut?

Me: Like this.

(Conversation ensues.)

Me: And I want the backsplash cut like this. It's kind of unusual. I want to make sure you understand exactly what I want.

Granite cutter: You don't have a backsplash on your order.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite cutter: No you don't.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite cutter: No you don't.

(Calls ensue to granite saleswoman, messed-up stuff gets fixed.)

Me: I'm going to send you a drawing that details exactly what I want on this.



2 weeks ago

Granite measuring guy: I'm here to measure for your countertops.

Me: Cool.

(Measuring ensues.)

Me: Are you clear about how we want the backsplashes to be installed? They're kind of unusual.

Granite measuring guy: You don't have a backsplash on your order.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite cutter: No you don't.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite cutter: No you don't.

(Calls ensue to granite saleswoman and granite cutter, messed-up stuff gets fixed.)


Yesterday.

Wife: The granite got installed today.

Me: How does it look?

Wife: It looks great! But why is there no backsplash?

Me: There's no backsplash?

Wife: No.

(Ring, ring.)

Granite installer: Hello?

Me: Why is there no backsplash?

Granite installer: You don't have a backsplash on your order.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite installer: No you don't.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite installer: No you don't.

(Ring, ring.)

Granite cutter: Hello?

Me: Where are my freaking backsplashes?

Granite cutter: What backsplashes?

Me: The backsplashes on my order! The backsplashes that we talked about in detail and that I sent you the detailed drawing for! I want my freaking backsplashes!

Granite cutter: You don't have a backsplash on your order.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite cutter: No you don't.

Me: Yes I do.

Granite cutter: No you don't.

Me: Look at the fax that I sent you. The one with the drawings.

Granite cutter: What fax?

(Ring, ring)

Granite saleswoman: Hello?

Me: You stupid, ugly, piece of feces! I want my freaking backsplash! I want it now! NOW!

Granite saleswoman: Who is this?

Me: It's Rain Man! RAIN MAN! I WANT MY *******, ********, ********* BACKSPLASH! NOW! OR I'M GOING TO COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND STRANGLE YOU WITH A PAIR OF YOUR OWN PANTY HOSE! NOW!

Granite saleswoman: You don't have a backsplash on your order.

Me: ************** ********** ****** YOU AND YOUR UNBORN CHILDREN! ****** AND YOUR MOTHER AND ******* AND A BUCKET OF FRIED CHICKEN! ****** ****** *******! *****!

Granite saleswoman: I'll look into it.

(Ring, ring)

Me: Hello?

Granite installer: Hey...uh...your order didn't show that you were getting a backsplash, so we didn't load it. We found it in the warehouse where it had already been cut, and we'll install it today.

Me: ****** YOU! *******! ****** - oh, wait. That's fine.

Bugeater
10-19-2006, 10:55 AM
Granite saleswoman: May I help you?
:hmmm:

Dartgod
10-19-2006, 11:12 AM
You're like some kind of incompetent moron magnet, aren't you?

Phobia
10-19-2006, 11:18 AM
You're like some kind of incompetent moron magnet, aren't you?

This industry is full of them - including myself at times. There's a million details one needs to be aware of while remodeling. Some of them inevitably slip through the cracks. The mark of a professional is how well he or she can adapt to these challenges.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 11:19 AM
You're like some kind of incompetent moron magnet, aren't you?

This is a whole train of incompetent morons. It's like I fell through a looking glass into a land where everyone is incompetent.

Oh, and I just got a call from the granite saleswoman. She says that it's going to cost an additional $445 for the backsplash because she never had it on our original order. I'm going to find out where she lives and slash her tires.

StcChief
10-19-2006, 11:21 AM
Granite installer: Hey...uh...your order didn't show that you were getting a backsplash, so we didn't load it. We found it in the warehouse where it had already been cut, and we'll install it today.

Somebody got the FAX....just happened to be the person that needed it.
You got lucky.

These folks sound like they could F'UP a One car parade.

Hoover
10-19-2006, 11:25 AM
I hate all contractors.

Dartgod
10-19-2006, 11:25 AM
The mark of a professional is how well he or she can adapt to these challenges.
This is where the incompetent part of the moniker comes from.

bogie
10-19-2006, 11:33 AM
I had a similar incident with custom windows. Unfortunately, this happens quite a bit when you custom order things. If you can use stock items, it will prevent quite a bit of hair pulling. Has your chandelier arrived?

patteeu
10-19-2006, 11:44 AM
Dang, Rainman. What did you do to deserve this kind of karma? I hope the rest of the project goes more smoothly. Are you sleeping in the new bedroom now?

InChiefsHell
10-19-2006, 11:51 AM
This part of the thread is worthless without pics...

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 12:12 PM
Here's the letter that I just faxed to GRANITE DEPOT:

Granite Depot

To Management:

I am enclosing an authorization for additional charges to my credit card to obtain the backsplashes that have been part of my order for months, despite the fact that I disagree strongly with the additional charges. Please know that, due to the extremely poor service that I have experienced with your company, this authorization will be valid ONLY if the backsplashes are cut and installed to the specifications that I have given to both the installer and to Victor Marble. I have been told that the backsplashes were cut according to those specifications, and I will need to see it with my own eyes before I believe it, since I have become accustomed to having my work done improperly by Granite Depot.

As background, we initially purchased granite from your company for our countertops several months ago. At the time, we discussed the backsplashes with your sales staff, and we received a price for installation that was represented as including our complete order.
We then met with Victor Marble to handle the templating, and they said that they did not receive notice that a backsplash was included. I had to correct it on the spot, and detailed both verbally and in writing what we were expecting.

The measurement person then came out to template the countertops, and when we confirmed the backsplash with him, he said that he had not received any notice that a backsplash was included. We had to explain it again.

The countertops were installed yesterday, and no backsplash was included. Victor Marble once again informed us that they had no paperwork documenting the backsplash. Presumably they needed something from Granite Depot, since I had already spoken with them and sent a notice in writing.

I am now being told that you wish to charge me an additional $445 to install the backsplash, or to use the words of your salesperson, ďslap it upĒ. I have spent quite a bit of time correcting your errors on this problem, and it will cost me even more money to have the contractor present to have the backsplashes installed. This is not merely Granite Depotís error; it is your repeated error that I have repeatedly attempted to fix, apparently with no success. I recognize that mistakes happen sometimes, but good companies fix the problems.

I will offer you a choice on this matter. If you feel that you really deserve the $445 in payment to fix your own repeated errors, then you can charge my account. If you do so, I will also inform my contractor and my architect of my bad experience with Granite Depot, and I will recommend against any other people I know making a purchase from Granite Depot. I should note that I am a consultant and one of my clients is a homebuilding association and another is a developer, so I know quite a few contractors. Or if you prefer, you can do the fair thing and fix your error and install the backsplash at no charge. If you do that, I still cannot speak positively of my experience with Granite Depot, but I will pledge to not speak negatively of your company. Itís your choice.

At any rate, please be advised that I will ONLY authorize this additional $445 if the backsplash was indeed cut to my specifications and is installed correctly.

Rain Man

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 12:14 PM
Has your chandelier arrived?

No. :sulk:

Hoover
10-19-2006, 12:19 PM
Here's the letter that I just faxed to GRANITE DEPOT:

I will offer you a choice on this matter. If you feel that you really deserve the $445 in payment to fix your own repeated errors, then you can charge my account. If you do so, I will also inform my contractor and my architect of my bad experience with Granite Depot, and I will recommend against any other people I know making a purchase from Granite Depot. I should note that I am a consultant and one of my clients is a homebuilding association and another is a developer, so I know quite a few contractors. Or if you prefer, you can do the fair thing and fix your error and install the backsplash at no charge. If you do that, I still cannot speak positively of my experience with Granite Depot, but I will pledge to not speak negatively of your company. Itís your choice.


Rain Man

Great letter till this part. You needed to tell them you were not paying for it, see if they give in. Trust me they are going to bill your ass. They don't give a shit.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 12:22 PM
Dang, Rainman. What did you do to deserve this kind of karma? I hope the rest of the project goes more smoothly. Are you sleeping in the new bedroom now?

We are indeed in the bedroom now, and it's fabulous. There are just a couple of little finish-up items that we're waiting on: a door that hasn't come in yet, and hooking up the swamp cooler to a water supply. I'll post photos when the whole thing is done.

Overall, the project has gone pretty well. We're in about the 15th week of an 8-week schedule, but I've been around long enough to know that construction schedules are always underestimated. I can live with that. My big worry is getting the final invoice and seeing where we stand on price. The contractor has been good to work with, but has been very laissez-faire on the change orders. We've had very few, but when we would talk about something he would say, "Oh, the cost is trivial. We'll get it to you" and then we never get a price. I don't think they're dishonest at all, but rather they're just too busy right now and their finance person is way behind. (They've never even sent us the final contract to sign, so this whole project has been done without a contract. I think that's to our advantage, so I've let it ride.) He's also had to work around at least two major design flaws by our incompetent architect, and I don't know who's expected to absorb any extra costs there. If nothing weird happens with the pricing, I'd certainly recommend the contractor to others.

I find it a little odd to be so ticked off about the backsplash on a kitchen counter, but you get that way on these projects, especially toward the end. "WHITE? WE HAVE WHITE OUTLET COVERS!?!?! I SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR BISCUIT!"

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 12:25 PM
Great letter till this part. You needed to tell them you were not paying for it, see if they give in. Trust me they are going to bill your ass. They don't give a shit.

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that you're right, but we'll see. However, my major concern right now is to get the backsplashes, because if trouble starts, there's no way we'll be able to match the granite, and they've got the possession arrow in their favor. Given the choice of getting the dang things or saving $445, I really need to get the dang things.

Phobia
10-19-2006, 12:27 PM
I hate all contractors.

I don't blame you. We hate homeowners, too. But it's not your fault. It's a human nature thing. People are incredibly protective with the largest investment of their life - as it should be. They also expect to get a lot of work for a little bit of money. This is where bad blood comes in. People have no problem spending $79 for $1.25 worth of leather, plastic, and rubber with a Nike swoosh on it but they don't want to spend too much markup to the guy working on their largest investment. It's a strange phenomona. Don't ask me to explain it. I used to be you when I was on the other side of the fence.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 12:29 PM
Woo. Just got a nasty call from granite saleswoman. They're charging the $445 and they don't think it's their fault at all, and they don't like my tone.

Phobia
10-19-2006, 12:33 PM
Woo. Just got a nasty call from granite saleswoman. They're charging the $445 and they don't think it's their fault at all, and they don't like my tone.

While I don't think they should eat the entire $445, they should make some other concession. Obviously, they're not handling it well.

NewChief
10-19-2006, 12:34 PM
Woo. Just got a nasty call from granite saleswoman. They're charging the $445 and they don't think it's their fault at all, and they don't like my tone.

That sucks. Too bad you don't have documentation of the phone calls you made. That's why I love handling this sort of stuff via email.

el borracho
10-19-2006, 12:46 PM
This is a whole train of incompetent morons. It's like I fell through a looking glass into a land where everyone is incompetent.

Oh, and I just got a call from the granite saleswoman. She says that it's going to cost an additional $445 for the backsplash because she never had it on our original order. I'm going to find out where she lives and slash her tires.
Well, go back and look at your original order. If the backsplash is not listed there then it is your fault. Sorry, Rainman, but you have to be very specific when having work done based on your custom ideas. I piss off a lot of contractors when I ask them to itemize their estimates but I won't hire them without having their responsibilities 100% clear in writing. It takes more time and effort at the beginning but it is well worth it.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 12:47 PM
While I don't think they should eat the entire $445, they should make some other concession. Obviously, they're not handling it well.

Yeah, she handled it very poorly. Her contention was that she had told us that the backsplashes would be extra yadda yadda yadda. I don't agree with that, but even if I did spot her that, they have repeatedly failed to get the order correct. I keep ending up being the one that tries to keep it from falling through the cracks, and they keep forgetting to add it to the order.

I can handle mistakes. What burns me is when people won't admit that it was a mistake.

Dartgod
10-19-2006, 12:48 PM
Woo. Just got a nasty call from granite saleswoman. They're charging the $445 and they don't think it's their fault at all, and they don't like my tone.This would be the point that I would tell her to stick her granite backsplash up her smelly twat.......sideways.

Hoover
10-19-2006, 12:49 PM
Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that you're right, but we'll see. However, my major concern right now is to get the backsplashes, because if trouble starts, there's no way we'll be able to match the granite, and they've got the possession arrow in their favor. Given the choice of getting the dang things or saving $445, I really need to get the dang things.
I don't mind paying, I just want a contractor to come when they say they will, and do what they are supposed to do.

I have found a couple great honest contractors that I use for my projects. I talk them up every chance I get.

bogie
10-19-2006, 01:09 PM
I don't blame you. We hate homeowners, too. But it's not your fault. It's a human nature thing. People are incredibly protective with the largest investment of their life - as it should be. They also expect to get a lot of work for a little bit of money. This is where bad blood comes in. People have no problem spending $79 for $1.25 worth of leather, plastic, and rubber with a Nike swoosh on it but they don't want to spend too much markup to the guy working on their largest investment. It's a strange phenomona. Don't ask me to explain it. I used to be you when I was on the other side of the fence.

People that are spending the money can say, I hate blah, blah, blah. It may not be right, but they're spending the money and they have a right to expect excellent service. If contactors hate home owners, that's a big problem with the industry as I assume, home owners are contractors bread and butter.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 02:26 PM
This would be the point that I would tell her to stick her granite backsplash up her smelly twat.......sideways.

I gotta have that backsplash, and it can't have any feces on it when it's installed.

However, the owner of the business is going to get a politely rude letter from me stating that his salesperson valued $445 more than the reputation of the business, and that I'm reluctantly going to begin my "public information" campaign tomorrow.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 02:30 PM
I don't blame you. We hate homeowners, too. But it's not your fault. It's a human nature thing. People are incredibly protective with the largest investment of their life - as it should be. They also expect to get a lot of work for a little bit of money. This is where bad blood comes in. People have no problem spending $79 for $1.25 worth of leather, plastic, and rubber with a Nike swoosh on it but they don't want to spend too much markup to the guy working on their largest investment. It's a strange phenomona. Don't ask me to explain it. I used to be you when I was on the other side of the fence.

I would never be a contractor for exactly this reason. People do tend to be hypersensitive about this stuff, even if they aren't paying a ton of money for it. We're talking about large expenditures, long-lasting effects, and lots of uncertainty and stress. That's a volatile combination.

bogie
10-19-2006, 03:05 PM
I would never be a contractor for exactly this reason. People do tend to be hypersensitive about this stuff, even if they aren't paying a ton of money for it. We're talking about large expenditures, long-lasting effects, and lots of uncertainty and stress. That's a volatile combination.


If the contractor can't deliver a quality product to the customers satisfaction, he/she shouldn't be a contractor.

DaFace
10-19-2006, 03:16 PM
This whole ordeal makes me think I should have a video camera present during any meetings involving large purchases. I can't believe that they still don't think it's their fault after all that. Good luck getting things figured out!

Phobia
10-19-2006, 03:31 PM
If the contractor can't deliver a quality product to the customers satisfaction, he/she shouldn't be a contractor.

That's very black and white. I wish I lived in that world.

bogie
10-19-2006, 03:56 PM
That's very black and white. I wish I lived in that world.


I'll change what I said...

If the contractor can't deliver a quality product to Rain Man's satisfaction, he/she shouldn't be a contractor.

I know you guys have to deal with buttcracks.

I'm a home owner that has done numerous projects requiring contractors. When there was a problem (shit happens) we came to a conclusion that I was satisfied with. Rain Man's getting screwed by bullshit management. I know it's been said a million times but, if I ran my business like that, I'd be out of business.

Ari Chi3fs
10-19-2006, 04:04 PM
so where are the pictures of this beautiful backsplash?

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 05:39 PM
so where are the pictures of this beautiful backsplash?

We're getting close to the great unveiling. I'm thinking second week in November. Unless of course the chandelier still hasn't arrived by then.

NewChief
10-19-2006, 05:45 PM
If the contractor can't deliver a quality product to the customers satisfaction, he/she shouldn't be a contractor.

Heh. What you're missing is that some customers are never satisfied. On top of that, there are customers out there that will change their mind 10 times on a project and want you to stick to the initial bid, nevermind the extra 50 hours of labor their revisions caused.

Two brothers currently in construction and my own time as a framer taught me that construction is quite a bit different than other service/product based businesses.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 05:52 PM
So...they called to confirm that they would be there between 3:00 and 4:00 today. My wife and our contractor foreman went there to meet them, and they never showed up and never called. I just called them, and they said, "The installers didn't show up? We haven't been able to get hold of them."

It would be hard for me to figure out a way to handle this situation worse than they're handling it. Amazing.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 06:03 PM
Heh. What you're missing is that some customers are never satisfied. On top of that, there are customers out there that will change their mind 10 times on a project and want you to stick to the initial bid, nevermind the extra 50 hours of labor their revisions caused.

Two brothers currently in construction and my own time as a framer taught me that construction is quite a bit different than other service/product based businesses.

I think the big difference is that people are spending their own money instead of company money, so they get more stressed about it. However, construction companies could cut a lot of the stress by simply providing pricing options. "Sure, we can move that light fixture. It's be an extra $150. Sign here and we'll do it." I would welcome that approach, because it's fair and no one's getting surprised or screwed.

The bigger issue is work quality. Too many people look solely at price, and the lowest price may also be the lowest quality. I think it's important to see the work of the contractor, and then ensure that you approve of the quality and that you're getting the same quality. We've been lucky with the contractors that we've hired for major projects, in that their work is good. I don't know what we would do if they were doing shoddy work, because quality is so subjective.

New Yorker
10-19-2006, 06:19 PM
I do not envy you in any way. I went through that about 10 years ago(kitchen, 2 bathrooms and a basemnt). I`m going to re-do my basement soon. Actually doing a little here and there because I hate doing that stuff. Good luck. Looking forward to more pics of the finished product.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 06:24 PM
I do not envy you in any way. I went through that about 10 years ago(kitchen, 2 bathrooms and a basemnt). I`m going to re-do my basement soon. Actually doing a little here and there because I hate doing that stuff. Good luck. Looking forward to more pics of the finished product.

Good luck to you. I would advise against using Granite Depot of Commerce City, Colorado, for your granite.

New Yorker
10-19-2006, 06:30 PM
no granite for me. Formica is cheap, easy to install and certainly easily replaceable once you get tired of it.

Bugeater
10-19-2006, 06:53 PM
Well, go back and look at your original order. If the backsplash is not listed there then it is your fault. Sorry, Rainman, but you have to be very specific when having work done based on your custom ideas. I piss off a lot of contractors when I ask them to itemize their estimates but I won't hire them without having their responsibilities 100% clear in writing. It takes more time and effort at the beginning but it is well worth it.
Very good, there are a lot of contractors who aren't thorough with their bids, or even worse just give verbal bids. I'd like to add that the customer also should NEVER "assume" something is included in the price. I try to be very clear when I present my proposals that if something is not specifically listed that they're expecting, they need to check with me about it.

bogie
10-19-2006, 06:54 PM
Heh. What you're missing is that some customers are never satisfied. On top of that, there are customers out there that will change their mind 10 times on a project and want you to stick to the initial bid, nevermind the extra 50 hours of labor their revisions caused.

Two brothers currently in construction and my own time as a framer taught me that construction is quite a bit different than other service/product based businesses.

I don't want to put down any contractors, I would like to be a contractor. Changes are part of consruction. It's difficult for home owners to make decisions from drawings. Homeowners need to be informed of the costs attached to changes. If a contractor is organized enough to get costs related to changes in writing, they should be covered. I know, I know, easier said than done.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:02 PM
Very good, there are a lot of contractors who aren't thorough with their bids, or even worse just give verbal bids. I'd like to add that the customer also should NEVER "assume" something is included in the price. I try to be very clear when I present my proposals that if something is not specifically listed that they're expecting, they need to check with me about it.

Yeah. I've obsessed over this all afternoon because I'm so ragingly angrily furiously annoyed, and there were four screwups. The first was not giving me complete pricing in the first place. The second was acting like they didn't screw up in the first place. The third was not correcting the order. The fourth was not acknowledging that they didn't correct the order. If they made a mistake and it costs me more, I can deal with that as long as I'm convinced that it was an honest mistake. The part that continues to chafe me is the fact that they still can't get the order right, and are still unapologetic about it.

Bugeater
10-19-2006, 07:03 PM
I don't want to put down any contractors, I would like to be a contractor. Changes are part of consruction. It's difficult for home owners to make decisions from drawings. Homeowners need to be informed of the costs attached to changes. If a contractor is organized enough to get costs related to changes in writing, they should be covered. I know, I know, easier said than done.
Yes, changes are part of construction, but they need to be kept at an absolute minimum. There's often more cost involved in the change than just the time & materials to do the work. If you get too many they will disrupt the flow of the job and nothing gets done efficiently, which generally ends up hurting the bottom lines of other sub-contractors who aren't even involved with the actual change.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:06 PM
I don't want to put down any contractors, I would like to be a contractor. Changes are part of consruction. It's difficult for home owners to make decisions from drawings. Homeowners need to be informed of the costs attached to changes. If a contractor is organized enough to get costs related to changes in writing, they should be covered. I know, I know, easier said than done.

Yeah, that's the thing. The base pricing should cover a typical level of minor changes. We all know that everything isn't going to be exactly as predicted, because these jobs are complicated. However, I shouldn't have to bear all of the risk for any changes, because I'm relying on the contractor to know enough to predict the risk of problems and account for it in his pricing. If there's something completely unexpected that gets uncovered, then we talk. But the contractor should know that XX percent of the job is going to have a glitch in it, and should price knowing that that will happen.

Bugeater
10-19-2006, 07:12 PM
Yeah. I've obsessed over this all afternoon because I'm so ragingly angrily furiously annoyed, and there were four screwups. The first was not giving me complete pricing in the first place. The second was acting like they didn't screw up in the first place. The third was not correcting the order. The fourth was not acknowledging that they didn't correct the order. If they made a mistake and it costs me more, I can deal with that as long as I'm convinced that it was an honest mistake. The part that continues to chafe me is the fact that they still can't get the order right, and are still unapologetic about it.
I hear you Rain Man. It really boggles my mind how some businesses stay in business. There's a contractor that I did work for over 10 years ago whose projects were always a disorganized nightmare. His customers all hated him by the time he was done, but yet he is still in business to this day.

Bob Dole
10-19-2006, 07:14 PM
I don't blame you. We hate homeowners, too.

Which is why no reputable contractors in Texarkana will even deal with private home remodels.

bogie
10-19-2006, 07:17 PM
Yes, changes are part of construction, but they need to be kept at an absolute minimum. There's often more cost involved in the change than just the time & materials to do the work. If you get too many they will disrupt the flow of the job and nothing gets done efficiently, which generally ends up hurting the bottom lines of other sub-contractors who aren't even involved with the actual change.

Yes, they need to be kept at an absolute minimum. That is easier said then done when a homeowner is generally making decisions from paper.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:19 PM
I hear you Rain Man. It really boggles my mind how some businesses stay in business. There's a contractor that I did work for over 10 years ago whose projects were always a disorganized nightmare. His customers all hated him by the time he was done, but yet he is still in business to this day.

I think this only happens because there aren't good forums for people to share their bad experiences. That guy can move on and always find someone who hasn't heard of him.

The funny thing is that I just spoke on a conference panel this week about customer service and what constitutes excellent customer service. We talked about how to handle customer complaints and how to prevent customer complaints, and what defines good customer service. In handling complaints, the common theme that I heard was that it's better to not do battle with a customer, even if they're not reasonable, because in the long run you're better off with a happy customer than a mad customer.

NewChief
10-19-2006, 07:23 PM
If a contractor is organized enough to get costs related to changes in writing, they should be covered. I know, I know, easier said than done.

I think you hit it on the head, there. Many, many contractors are excellent at doing the actual work, but they're atrocious at figuring actual costs and being organized enough to present that information accurately to the home owner beforehand. My brother built extremely high end log cabins (hand hewn logs). He even built a log cabin for Tom Cruise in Colorado. He's built multiple large cabins that have been featured in various magazines. Unfortunately, he was more of an artisan than a contractor. He inevitably underbid the home, then being the honest guy that he was, his profits would suck on the house because he'd try to stick to the initial bid. As a result, he rarely does turnkey cabins anymore despite the potential profit being much higher in turnkey because he can make a better profit with less headache just by going in as a timber framing subcontractor.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:24 PM
Yes, they need to be kept at an absolute minimum. That is easier said then done when a homeowner is generally making decisions from paper.

It's only natural that some things will change. I think that's no problem if they're neutral and addressed before the "point of no return". And if I change something after the fact, then I'll pay for it.

The gray area is the stuff like my refrigerator not being able to open all the way. It's clearly a design problem, and the cabinet subcontractor was following the design. However, I was a little disappointed that they didn't notice it when they were putting it in, or didn't know from experience that you shouldn't have a refrigerator within 12 inches of a 90 degree cabinet turn.

So who pays for pulling the cabinet back out and fixing the problem? The architect, whose design was stupid in the first place? The homeowner, who made the problem worse by trying to fix another architect problem? The cabinet subcontractor, for not knowing that you shouldn't have a fridge that close to the corner? Or the general contractor, who is supposed to be on site managing the project?

plbrdude
10-19-2006, 07:24 PM
Heh. What you're missing is that some customers are never satisfied. On top of that, there are customers out there that will change their mind 10 times on a project and want you to stick to the initial bid, nevermind the extra 50 hours of labor their revisions caused.

Two brothers currently in construction and my own time as a framer taught me that construction is quite a bit different than other service/product based businesses.


surely not

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:28 PM
I think you hit it on the head, there. Many, many contractors are excellent at doing the actual work, but they're atrocious at figuring actual costs and being organized enough to present that information accurately to the home owner beforehand.


Yeah. I like my contractor, but they haven't been able to provide me any pricing on change orders other than "that's a trivial cost." We have meetings every week and every week we say, "you need to let us know where we're at on the budget" and they haven't submitted some of them weeks after they did the work - and without us formally approving it. The only price they submitted was $884 for one change order, so I presume that all of the others are below that amount. It scares me, though, and it's not necessary.

plbrdude
10-19-2006, 07:30 PM
I hate all contractors.
thank you

bogie
10-19-2006, 07:33 PM
Look, I work in video editing. There are subjective changes that happen ALL THE TIME. My customers know that with these changes come additional costs. When the customer is given the options, they will make their decision being fully informed. It's as simple as that. 98% of the time I have no problems. Unfortunately, with construction, as we have all read, problems with communication happen way too much.

plbrdude
10-19-2006, 07:36 PM
Yeah. I like my contractor, but they haven't been able to provide me any pricing on change orders other than "that's a trivial cost." We have meetings every week and every week we say, "you need to let us know where we're at on the budget" and they haven't submitted some of them weeks after they did the work - and without us formally approving it. The only price they submitted was $884 for one change order, so I presume that all of the others are below that amount. It scares me, though, and it's not necessary.



your story reminds me of one i heard earlier this year. one of my customers was having a surgery and his daughter came back for a while. she lives outside indianapolis. she told me last year that they had done an add-on and some remodeling. thought all was good happy with job, knew there were some xtras.then the final bill came, xtras totalled purty near 50g. guess thy're spending some time in court now with their friendly contractor.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:37 PM
My business is the same way, bogie. I always have people changing what they need, and it's a natural process. My pricing reflects that I'm going to have do some re-routing, and I typically absorb it unless it's truly a client-requested change in the scope of the work. Then I tell them what it'll cost and let them decide.

Change your mind 8 times about survey content? I'll sigh and deal with it. Tell me you want a 20-minute survey instead of a 10-minute survey, and I'll tell you how much extra it costs. Simple.

My work is also expense-heavy. I do a fair number of $35,000 projects that have $20,000 in subcontractor expenses. I'm not unlike a contractor in that way.

cdcox
10-19-2006, 07:38 PM
It's difficult for home owners to make decisions from drawings.

Then they are not qualified to own the home in the first place, or at least not qualified to have it remodeled.

Bugeater
10-19-2006, 07:39 PM
Yes, they need to be kept at an absolute minimum. That is easier said then done when a homeowner is generally making decisions from paper.
Eh, that's true to a point. But often it's because the homeowner doesn't think through exactly what they want, and go into it with the idea that changing things later isn't a big deal.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:40 PM
your story reminds me of one i heard earlier this year. one of my customers was having a surgery and his daughter came back for a while. she lives outside indianapolis. she told me last year that they had done an add-on and some remodeling. thought all was good happy with job, knew there were some xtras.then the final bill came, xtras totalled purty near 50g. guess thy're spending some time in court now with their friendly contractor.

That's exactly my fear. I'm getting no information. All of our changes have been relatively small, but I'd like to know if they're averaging $100 each or if he's charging me $1,000 each. He's just telling me "cheap" and then doing the work.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 07:41 PM
I think I'm starting to feel sick.

trndobrd
10-19-2006, 07:44 PM
Here you go....

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Dialing 1.800.222.4444 connects a Colorado caller to a menu of choices provided in English and Spanish. Options include the Colorado Attorney General's Office of Consumer Protection, AARP ElderWatch, or one of the four BBBs serving the state.

With this program, callers do not have to pay long-distance charges to receive consumer advice, report a problem, or receive a reliability report from the BBB.

trndobrd
10-19-2006, 07:46 PM
That's exactly my fear. I'm getting no information. All of our changes have been relatively small, but I'd like to know if they're averaging $100 each or if he's charging me $1,000 each. He's just telling me "cheap" and then doing the work.


If you are already 15 weeks into an 8 week project, just call and tell him all work and payment stops TODAY until he has a complete cost sheet worked up for you.

Bugeater
10-19-2006, 07:48 PM
It's only natural that some things will change. I think that's no problem if they're neutral and addressed before the "point of no return". And if I change something after the fact, then I'll pay for it.

The gray area is the stuff like my refrigerator not being able to open all the way. It's clearly a design problem, and the cabinet subcontractor was following the design. However, I was a little disappointed that they didn't notice it when they were putting it in, or didn't know from experience that you shouldn't have a refrigerator within 12 inches of a 90 degree cabinet turn.

So who pays for pulling the cabinet back out and fixing the problem? The architect, whose design was stupid in the first place? The homeowner, who made the problem worse by trying to fix another architect problem? The cabinet subcontractor, for not knowing that you shouldn't have a fridge that close to the corner? Or the general contractor, who is supposed to be on site managing the project?
Heh, that's the best part of construction. There's so many people involved, everyone always has someone to point the finger at. IMO it all comes down to the architect. The cabinet installer probably had no idea what type of refrigerator you had coming or what direction the doors opened. The architect should have.

plbrdude
10-19-2006, 07:53 PM
That's exactly my fear. I'm getting no information. All of our changes have been relatively small, but I'd like to know if they're averaging $100 each or if he's charging me $1,000 each. He's just telling me "cheap" and then doing the work.

hopefully you're nowhere near that. i do know how frustrating remodeling can be. i got remarried 4.5 yr ago and we immediately tore into the house. main part put up in 1890's. then added onto couple of times. it was right at a year before we had someting other than lawn chairs or the kitchen table to set at. even w/all we did, we could concievably sink another 30 or 40 into it.

plbrdude
10-19-2006, 08:07 PM
here's some after pics of our house.we were in the holiday homes tour.

plbrdude
10-19-2006, 08:09 PM
and our kitchen

stevieray
10-19-2006, 08:18 PM
That's exactly my fear. I'm getting no information. All of our changes have been relatively small, but I'd like to know if they're averaging $100 each or if he's charging me $1,000 each. He's just telling me "cheap" and then doing the work.

oooh... find out how much. I'm never afraid to talk money with a client, in fact, i think they appreciate it...I used to be afraid to charge for sample boards, never again.

Best thing to do is get it on paper.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 09:19 PM
oooh... find out how much. I'm never afraid to talk money with a client, in fact, i think they appreciate it...I used to be afraid to charge for sample boards, never again.

Best thing to do is get it on paper.


We keep trying, but our only option is to stop the project until they provide numbers, and I don't want to do that. Plus, it's rather combative to do that, I think.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 09:20 PM
Nice work, plbrdude, but don't you think it's about time that you updated that telephone?

A lot of your door trim is very similar to ours.

bogie
10-20-2006, 06:34 PM
Then they are not qualified to own the home in the first place, or at least not qualified to have it remodeled.


:rolleyes:

bogie
10-20-2006, 06:36 PM
Eh, that's true to a point. But often it's because the homeowner doesn't think through exactly what they want, and go into it with the idea that changing things later isn't a big deal.

Every contractor I've worked with makes it very clear that changes cost time and money. I'm sure there are virgin home owners out there that don't have a clue. It's the contractors job to clue them in.

patteeu
10-20-2006, 07:23 PM
We are indeed in the bedroom now, and it's fabulous. There are just a couple of little finish-up items that we're waiting on: a door that hasn't come in yet, and hooking up the swamp cooler to a water supply. I'll post photos when the whole thing is done.

Overall, the project has gone pretty well. We're in about the 15th week of an 8-week schedule, but I've been around long enough to know that construction schedules are always underestimated. I can live with that. My big worry is getting the final invoice and seeing where we stand on price. The contractor has been good to work with, but has been very laissez-faire on the change orders. We've had very few, but when we would talk about something he would say, "Oh, the cost is trivial. We'll get it to you" and then we never get a price. I don't think they're dishonest at all, but rather they're just too busy right now and their finance person is way behind. (They've never even sent us the final contract to sign, so this whole project has been done without a contract. I think that's to our advantage, so I've let it ride.) He's also had to work around at least two major design flaws by our incompetent architect, and I don't know who's expected to absorb any extra costs there. If nothing weird happens with the pricing, I'd certainly recommend the contractor to others.

I find it a little odd to be so ticked off about the backsplash on a kitchen counter, but you get that way on these projects, especially toward the end. "WHITE? WE HAVE WHITE OUTLET COVERS!?!?! I SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR BISCUIT!"

I don't think it's odd at all, given the scenario you've described. I'd be pretty darned pissed if I were in the same boat. You can't do much more than you did to get things to work out right from your end.

It's good to hear that the big picture is going better than the backsplash picture.

New Yorker
10-20-2006, 08:13 PM
Excellent job. Did you do all of the work(excluding any plumbing, electric, stuff you can`t really see)? I do all the cosmetic work stuff like installing cabinets, tiles, sheetroc, spackling, painting, etc..). I leave all the technical stuff to the plumber and electricians.

Nice job again. Cheers! You`re probably exhausted and aren`t looking to do it again. Have a beer! :GUINNESS:

Donger
10-20-2006, 08:17 PM
Excellent job. Did you do all of the work(excluding any plumbing, electric, stuff you can`t really see)? I do all the cosmetic work stuff like installing cabinets, tiles, sheetroc, spackling, painting, etc..). I leave all the technical stuff to the plumber and electricians.

Nice job again. Cheers! You`re probably exhausted and aren`t looking to do it again. Have a beer! :GUINNESS:

Are you joking? This is Rain Man.

New Yorker
10-20-2006, 08:31 PM
Are you joking? This is Rain Man.no. I`m pretty new to this forum and don`t know anyone here at all. Kitchen looks nice to me. Don`t know if he/she did it all themselves or had a contractor do it(didn`t read all the posts either). sorry for my ignorance. :BLVD:

plbrdude
10-20-2006, 08:43 PM
no. I`m pretty new to this forum and don`t know anyone here at all. Kitchen looks nice to me. Don`t know if he/she did it all themselves or had a contractor do it(didn`t read all the posts either). sorry for my ignorance. :BLVD:




if your talkin bout the pics a few posts back, thats mine. we did that a couple yr ago. i helped set the cabinets and hang rock. had the trim done. my expertise, is in what you can't see, such as the plumbing, elect.and sort. though i could go snap a pic of my furnace and duct.that you can see if you go to the basement. actually i'm kinda anxious to see rainmans reults on his house.

Rain Man
10-23-2006, 05:45 PM
no. I`m pretty new to this forum and don`t know anyone here at all. Kitchen looks nice to me. Don`t know if he/she did it all themselves or had a contractor do it(didn`t read all the posts either). sorry for my ignorance. :BLVD:

If I tried to redo a kitchen myself, I'd be posting update pictures like this.

http://www.anselm.edu/academic/history/hdubrulle/WarandRevolution/graphics/Paintings%202004/Air%20War%20Dresden%20Clean%20Up.jpg

Rain Man
10-23-2006, 05:49 PM
The backsplash is in, and it looks good despite the fact that GRANITE DEPOT ON DAHLIA STREET IN DENVER screwed up the cutting. I'm trying to decide now whether I'm going to continue battling with them to lower the bill or just move on.

In other news, we had the initial punch list meeting today, which was very convenient because last night the breaker to the new master bedroom blew and we lost power all night. That doesn't make me feel good.

And in perhaps the most inspiring news of all, my new computerized doorbell is up and working. I haven't had time to find a really good doorbell noise, so right now whenever anyone rings the doorbell, it's my voice saying, "Hey! There's somebody at the door!" I love this new doorbell.

Phobia
10-23-2006, 06:00 PM
And in perhaps the most inspiring news of all, my new computerized doorbell is up and working. I haven't had time to find a really good doorbell noise, so right now whenever anyone rings the doorbell, it's my voice saying, "Hey! There's somebody at the door!" I love this new doorbell.

Cool. The Historical Committee knows all about this, I presume?

Bugeater
10-23-2006, 06:49 PM
If I tried to redo a kitchen myself, I'd be posting update pictures like this.

http://www.anselm.edu/academic/history/hdubrulle/WarandRevolution/graphics/Paintings%202004/Air%20War%20Dresden%20Clean%20Up.jpg
ROFL

I'm also surprised I don't see anything about GRANITE DEPOT ON DAHLIA STREET IN DENVER in your top 10 list.

Rain Man
10-24-2006, 10:13 AM
Cool. The Historical Committee knows all about this, I presume?

For about two hours during the inspection, I'll be playing "Westminster Chimes." Then perhaps I'll go with the music from Psycho.

Iowanian
10-24-2006, 10:35 AM
You're like some kind of incompetent moron magnet, aren't you?

Keep in mind what city my bRainman resides within.

I worked for a contractor outside of Denver, and delt with several businesses like granite, door manufacturers etc.

Oh...and the people.
"You've just blasted 80 ton of rock, poured a foundation, framed and sheeted the house and drywalled the 4000 sq' interior.....Could we just put a small rooooooooom under the foundation for my son to play in"

I"m not BSing...that quote happend.

Same house...lady buys these custom, solid oak double wide front doors....probably 3-4K....then decides they should be "distressed". The custom door company was going to charge the contractor a bazillion dollars to "distress" the wood.....We put bolts/nots on the end of a couple of chains, beat the piss out of it....paid vandalism....and she loved it.

CaliRado......

Iowanian
10-24-2006, 10:59 AM
It sounds like its time for the planet to go to work on the googledom of granite depot of Denver Colorado, and how they treat their customers nearly as poorly and unethically as Eschelon Communications.

I think the Planet should have at least a thread, with the soul intention for customer review of companies, and use our power as a group to punish poor business practices.

The planet could bring the world of a shitty company to its knees.


I gotta have that backsplash, and it can't have any feces on it when it's installed.

However, the owner of the business is going to get a politely rude letter from me stating that his salesperson valued $445 more than the reputation of the business, and that I'm reluctantly going to begin my "public information" campaign tomorrow.

Phobia
10-24-2006, 11:02 AM
We're Chiefs fans. If one were searching for advice on Camaro buying or mullet care, our consumer advice might be valued. Otherwise we have no credibility.

Iowanian
10-24-2006, 11:04 AM
I think I saw an ad on TV for www.angieslist dot com

This site was specifically targeted as a location to give good or bad feedback, and search what others have had to say about carpeters, plumbers, companies in your area.

Fillet them there for starters. You've already got the post typed...copy, past, send.


I think this only happens because there aren't good forums for people to share their bad experiences. That guy can move on and always find someone who hasn't heard of him.

The funny thing is that I just spoke on a conference panel this week about customer service and what constitutes excellent customer service. We talked about how to handle customer complaints and how to prevent customer complaints, and what defines good customer service. In handling complaints, the common theme that I heard was that it's better to not do battle with a customer, even if they're not reasonable, because in the long run you're better off with a happy customer than a mad customer.

Bugeater
10-24-2006, 11:33 AM
http://ripoffreport.com/

Rain Man
10-24-2006, 12:27 PM
Eggzellent. I already found merchantcircle.com. I'll check out these other sites, too.

patteeu
10-24-2006, 12:31 PM
no. I`m pretty new to this forum and don`t know anyone here at all. Kitchen looks nice to me. Don`t know if he/she did it all themselves or had a contractor do it(didn`t read all the posts either). sorry for my ignorance. :BLVD:

This forum? Rain Man is internet wide. Are you new to the internet? :p

Rain Man
10-24-2006, 01:46 PM
http://ripoffreport.com/


Ahhhhh, I'm feeling much better now.

Now it's time to check out angieslist.com.

Rain Man
10-24-2006, 01:48 PM
This forum? Rain Man is internet wide. Are you new to the internet? :p

Did someone pick up my microwave tattoo warning? Or maybe my ways to improve America essay?

Rain Man
11-08-2006, 09:14 AM
Okay, we're almost there. All we have left is:

1. Adding the knobs and pulls to the kitchen cabinets.

2. Replacing three doors.

3. Putting in the dining room chandelier.

4. Installing the TV in the kitchen.

5. Installing a big closet thingie in its opening in the kitchen.

The dining room also has a weird pattern showing up in the ceiling, which is the outline of a 4'x8' piece of drywall. The odd thing is that it wasn't there before and they didn't really do much in the dining room. We're not sure if we should do something about it or not, because it's invisible from some angles and very prominent from one angle. Odd.


Oh, and Granite Depot has retained their place in the hellish blackness of my hatred.

StcChief
11-08-2006, 09:52 AM
Okay, we're almost there. All we have left is:

1. Adding the knobs and pulls to the kitchen cabinets.

2. Replacing three doors.

3. Putting in the dining room chandelier.

4. Installing the TV in the kitchen.

5. Installing a big closet thingie in its opening in the kitchen.

The dining room also has a weird pattern showing up in the ceiling, which is the outline of a 4'x8' piece of drywall. The odd thing is that it wasn't there before and they didn't really do much in the dining room. We're not sure if we should do something about it or not, because it's invisible from some angles and very prominent from one angle. Odd.


Oh, and Granite Depot has retained their place in the hellish blackness of my hatred.

Ceiling Drywall with all the construction has likely moved. Nailed or screwed? Textured ceiling?
Have contractor look into it. May need to be renailed and taped/painted....

Rain Man
11-08-2006, 09:55 AM
Ceiling Drywall with all the construction has likely moved. Nailed or screwed? Textured ceiling?
Have contractor look into it. May need to be renailed and taped/painted....

It should've been screwed, but we don't see any nails or screws popping out - just an outline of a 4x8 piece.

It's killing us, because we've already moved all of the furniture back in, and we don't want to cover everything with drywall dust again. If we were sure it wasn't about to fall, we'd probably just live with it. Or maybe if we're lucky they can just pound a few nails and do a little patching.

TinyEvel
11-08-2006, 10:00 AM
How far is the outline? Is it like when light hits across the surface, you see it? It could be a bad taping job. If they didn;t taper the mud out far enough, a hump around the rim will show (stop snickering). Is this a newly installed ceiling? or was the drywall always there and the outline just appeared?

Rain Man
11-08-2006, 10:18 AM
How far is the outline? Is it like when light hits across the surface, you see it? It could be a bad taping job. If they didn;t taper the mud out far enough, a hump around the rim will show (stop snickering). Is this a newly installed ceiling? or was the drywall always there and the outline just appeared?

It's weird. We first saw it in the evening, and we were all like "Holy cow! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" because it looked like a whole sheet had dropped a quarter-inch, and there was no work being done in that area. (It's in the middle of the room, and surrounds the old light fixture that has been taken out. That's the only work in that general area, but it is in that sheet.)

Then, the next morning, we came in, and we were in different lighting at a different angle and it was all but invisible unless we really looked for it. You would never have noticed it in that lighting. That tells me it's shallow, but it's quite noticeable in the evenings when you're walking in from the kitchen.

The ceiling was installed about seven years ago, and has always looked perfect, so we know that something has changed, but it's weird that we aren't seeing any popped screws or nails. We're half-wondering if the drywaller back then (who was not the most stable of individuals) merely taped it up, but I can't imagine that it would've lasted seven years if that had happened.

Dartgod
11-08-2006, 10:20 AM
It's in the middle of the room, and surrounds the old light fixture that has been taken out.
Sounds to me like the old like fixture was holding it up.

Rain Man
11-08-2006, 10:26 AM
Sounds to me like the old like fixture was holding it up.

I was about to laugh and make fun of you like usual, but actually, you may have something. The light fixture is right in the middle of that sheet, and perhaps the little frame thingie on it was providing support.

Iowanian
11-08-2006, 11:16 AM
Its also possible that the NEW fixture is heavier or mounted different that is adding a load to the piece of drywall...OR....I know this is outragious, but maybe it was there the entire time, but the way the previous light lit your room, "hid" this the entire time, or this new light maginfies a pre-existing condition.