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Chiefs Pantalones
07-29-2006, 02:44 AM
JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY
COMMENTARY
OPTIMISM GRINDS TO HALT
Guess we can thank Willie Roaf for Ty Law, Kyle Turley and Tamba Haliís on-time-for-camp signing.

Things were going much too smoothly at Arrowhead Stadium this summer for something really terrible not to be driving Carl Petersonís actions. Now we know: Arguably the Chiefsí most valuable player had told Peterson and coach Herm Edwards that his playing career is over.

And now everything makes sense. The Chiefs dusted off Kyle Turley, sweet-talked Ty Law and paid Tamba Hali to mask the stink of Roaf retiring.

Problem is, weíre just not that stupid. Roafís exit puts a dark cloud on what previously had been the most anticipated Kansas City football season since the 1998 disaster.

My optimism has been replaced by fear ó fear of Trent Green getting steamrolled by defensive ends traveling the Jordan Black Expressway to quarterbacks. Green is an iron man. Heís played five years and 80 regular-season games without missing a start. Itís difficult to imagine that streak continuing with Roaf at home awaiting his invitation to Canton, Ohio.

Anyone holding out hope that Priest Holmes might decide to return needs to let that fantasy go. Holmes would be foolish to play this season without Roaf. Nope. Let Larry Johnson carry that burden. Heís young and desiring a megacontract. He can take the hits.

Oh, itís going to be MartyBall all the way this season. Edwards has no choice. The Chiefs will have pass-protection problems, receiver Eddie Kennison isnít happy with his contract, and Al Saundersí imagination is now in our nationís capital.

New offensive coordinator Mike Solari is going to pound the football. The Chiefs will try to control the clock and play solid defense.

I donít have a problem with that plan. I just question whether they have the depth to pull it off. Remember, thereís no depth behind Johnson. Tony Richardson plays in Minnesota. Will Shields is old. And the Chiefs are still banking on Ryan Sims improving their defensive front four.

This is an absolute disaster. Whatís worse is Roafís explanation for retiring. He said his body was worn out by four years of being locked in Dick Vermeilís boot camp in-season and offseason programs.

Vermeilís marathon practices shortened the career of one of the best offensive tackles in the history of the game. Roaf said his body didnít feel right in May, and he let Peterson and Edwards know he was going to retire. Roaf said he even filed his retirement paperwork.

Of course, Peterson failed to share this bit of information with us. Peterson thinks Big Willie is going to change his mind. Peterson thinks Big Willie hates training camp and might change his mind later.

Hmm. Peterson didnít want anything to interfere with season-ticket sales. He didnít want to spend the whole offseason listening to experts speculate about what the Chiefs would do to fix their offensive line.

You canít fix the hole Roaf created. A tackle combination of Jordan Black and Kyle Turley is a far cry from Roaf and Anybody.

Can the Chiefs still make the playoffs? Yes, they can sneak in as a wild card. But theyíre no longer a legitimate Super Bowl threat. Not unless Hali and Law turn Kansas Cityís defense into a real strength.

This news is a just a terrible kick in the gut. Iím more sad than mad.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-29-2006, 02:49 AM
This team has imploded. What will our record be next year?

pr_capone
07-29-2006, 02:56 AM
Same as last year 10-6, but we squeak into the playoffs this time..... then promptly loose the first game.

I'm a natural optimist, but being a fan of the KC Chiefs is more of a rollercoaster ride than the 80 year old wooden one at Joyland (Wichita).

That aside, I dont think that loosing Roaf will be as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

Dont forget that there is still AMPLE time for someone in camp to step their game up or for King Carl to make a trade for someone.

Rausch
07-29-2006, 02:56 AM
It's a valid (for the most part) argument.

Roaf's retirement does hamper the LJ2000 talk.

But then different sources tell different stories on Roaf and retirement paperwork.

Roaf's done. I hate to say it but he's made up his mind. His career is over.

I also think there's a huge difference between Peterson holding out hope Roaf would come back and formulating a conspiracy...

go bowe
07-29-2006, 02:58 AM
we haven't imploded yet...

with larry running rampant over everybody, the play action pass will work, even deep, even with our wr's, even with black or turley at lt...

hopefully they won't have to try 7 step drop back passing very often...

the season isn't over, but it just got a lot more interesting...

Mecca
07-29-2006, 02:59 AM
Between 7-9-9-7.......Not good enough to get in the playoffs....not bad enough to get a great college player. I hate that position the limbo position.

go bowe
07-29-2006, 03:01 AM
It's a valid (for the most part) argument.

Roaf's retirement does hamper the LJ2000 talk.

But then different sources tell different stories on Roaf and retirement paperwork.

Roaf's done. I hate to say it but he's made up his mind. His career is over.

I also think there's a huge difference between Peterson holding out hope Roaf would come back and formulating a conspiracy...roaf is done...

wished we could have won the big one for willie and t-rich...

but anything is possible in today's nfl, so there's still hope (i think)...

Rausch
07-29-2006, 03:02 AM
Between 7-9-9-7.......Not good enough to get in the playoffs....not bad enough to get a great college player. I hate that position the limbo position.

It's killed the Steelers and Pats for years now...

Thig Lyfe
07-29-2006, 03:03 AM
we haven't imploded yet...

with larry running rampant over everybody, the play action pass will work, even deep, even with our wr's, even with black or turley at lt...

hopefully they won't have to try 7 step drop back passing very often...

the season isn't over, but it just got a lot more interesting...

We'd have to look back carefully at how critical Roaf was in LJ's games to determine if LJ will still be able to run over everbody.

pr_capone
07-29-2006, 03:04 AM
We'd have to look back carefully at how critical Roaf was in LJ's games to determine if LJ will still be able to run over everbody.

LJ set the Chiefs single game rushing record with Roaf on the bench.

I think LJ will be fine.

Rausch
07-29-2006, 03:10 AM
We'd have to look back carefully at how critical Roaf was in LJ's games to determine if LJ will still be able to run over everbody.

Indeed.

The tape of LJ lowering a shoulder and emasculating defenders in open field is misleading...

Mecca
07-29-2006, 03:11 AM
It's killed the Steelers and Pats for years now...

Who cares about the Steelers and Pats, our team finishes with records like that every year and we never get good players in the draft, I see a trend.

Picking out 2 of 32 teams isn't exactly a good percentage either. They've both done well but generally to get the real top notch talent you need to be picking really high. If you pick 18,19,20 all the time there's going to come a time when you lack talent, especially when you draft as poorly as the Chiefs do.

Rausch
07-29-2006, 03:12 AM
Who cares about the Steelers and Pats, our team finishes with records like that every year and we never get good players in the draft, I see a trend.


I don't think you do.

Picking out 2 of 32 teams isn't exactly a good percentage either. They've both done well but generally to get the real top notch talent you need to be picking really high. If you pick 18,19,20 all the time there's going to come a time when you lack talent, especially when you draft as poorly as the Chiefs do.

It's not the pick, it's who you take with it.

Thig Lyfe
07-29-2006, 03:19 AM
Indeed.

The tape of LJ lowering a shoulder and emasculating defenders in open field is misleading...

Of course he's incredible in the open field. No shit. But you don't get into the open field if you can't get past the line of scrimage. And I'm not even taking one side or the other. I'm just saying that before we assume one way or the other about how Roaf leaving affects LJ, it's smart to go back and see how Roaf affected LJ on the field.

beer bacon
07-29-2006, 03:24 AM
Of course he's incredible in the open field. No shit. But you don't get into the open field if you can't get past the line of scrimage. And I'm not even taking one side or the other. I'm just saying that before we assume one way or the other about how Roaf leaving affects LJ, it's smart to go back and see how Roaf affected LJ on the field.

LJ started three games while Roaf was out. In those three games LJ had 445 yards rushing and four TDs. That includes the game against Buffalo where LJ had no TDs despite rushing for 130+ yards. This was mostly because Green was sacked a bijillion times and he also threw multiple interceptions.

Somebody also posted a stat earlier today that showed that the majority of the time last season LJ ran up the middle. Additionally, LJ ran more to the right then he did the left, and he also had a higher ypc (5+) running to the right then anywhere else. Here is a link to our rushing stats by left-middle-right for 2005. It is the one under "Season Team Offensive Line Stats"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/2586/

The big loss with Roaf is definately pass protection. I don't think there are too many LTs that can routinely shut down pass rushers like Dwight Freeney.

splatbass
07-29-2006, 05:22 AM
To hear people talk it would be impossible to win the Super Bowl without Roaf, yet 40 teams have done it and not a single one of them had Willie Roaf at LT.

I think it is a big loss, but it isn't the end of our season.

mikey23545
07-29-2006, 05:49 AM
Whitlock is so depressed I think maybe he should just eat himself to death....

alanm
07-29-2006, 06:47 AM
To hear people talk it would be impossible to win the Super Bowl without Roaf, yet 40 teams have done it and not a single one of them had Willie Roaf at LT.

I think it is a big loss, but it isn't the end of our season.
Well gee Splat.. didn't you just get done reading Chicken little Whitlock? The season is over... IT'S OVAH!!!! Damnit start working on those mocks for the 07 draft. :deevee:


We're going to be fine. Whitlock is a maroon.

ChiefsFan4Life
07-29-2006, 07:01 AM
Somebody also posted a stat earlier today that showed that the majority of the time last season LJ ran up the middle.

680 yards of his total were up the middle last year

cdcox
07-29-2006, 07:56 AM
I also think there's a huge difference between Peterson holding out hope Roaf would come back and formulating a conspiracy...

That is absolutely the most reasonable thing I have ever heard.

Chiefs Minor Satellite
07-29-2006, 08:25 AM
Whitlock is so depressed I think maybe he should just eat himself to death....


I don't wish him death, but if he had an episode that totally blocked his writing ability it might be advantageous.









Oops,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Where is my head? He can't write now! Maybe if he just gained enough weight to make his fingers so fat that he couldn't type on his editing orifice.



Willie did say in the paper that the Chiefs were informed a while back that he wasn't feeling physically like he should at this point in his life and that he didn't feel that he could perform to the level that he expects of himself. Losing a great player is bad, but Willie knows best what he needs.

C-Mac
07-29-2006, 09:46 AM
LJ set the Chiefs single game rushing record with Roaf on the bench.

I think LJ will be fine.

Shhhhh....

redbrian
07-29-2006, 09:54 AM
Whitless really shows his ass once again (and that ainít a pretty sight folks).

Roaf has not submitted his retirement papers to the league, once that is done it is my understanding that he is out for at least a year.

He sent a letter to the Chiefs informing them of his intent to retire, until he has submitted his papers to the league, and has enrolled and started classes at the University of his choice the Chiefs have every reason to hope that Willie will reconsider.

I also donít think that Willie stands between the Chiefs and the Super Bowl, it may make it a little tougher but it can still be done, I also donít see the offense going to a five yard and a cloud of dust mentality.

Deberg_1990
07-29-2006, 10:12 AM
To hear people talk it would be impossible to win the Super Bowl without Roaf, yet 40 teams have done it and not a single one of them had Willie Roaf at LT.



Geez.....havent you heard????.....Big Willie can kick Chuck Norris's ass and cure cancer too!!

JBucc
07-29-2006, 10:24 AM
What was our record over those six games without Roaf last year? Anybody know? I'd like to know that before giving out my new predictions.

Messier
07-29-2006, 10:47 AM
What was our record over those six games without Roaf last year? Anybody know? I'd like to know that before giving out my new predictions.


4-2

Chiefnj
07-29-2006, 11:01 AM
Johnson's rushing statistics:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=4485


Left sideline: 69 attempts for 436 yards.
Left side: 57 attempts for 282 yards.

Total to the left: 126 for 718 yards. (@ 5.7 per rush)

Middle: 135 for 680 (@ 5.03 per rush)

Right Sideline: 36 attempts for 212
Right Side: 39 attempts for 140.

Total to the right: 75 for 352. (@4.69 per rush)

People can draw their own conclusions from the data if they want.

NJ Chief Fan
07-29-2006, 01:22 PM
i heard whitlock was supposed to be roaf's replacement, but whitlock declined because he said hed only play if jeff george became the starting QB

tk13
07-29-2006, 01:27 PM
What was our record over those six games without Roaf last year? Anybody know? I'd like to know that before giving out my new predictions.
3-3.

Both Oakland wins and the Texans win.

The Denver, Philly, and Buffalo losses.

oldandslow
07-29-2006, 01:37 PM
To me it's not just Roaf...

It's Roaf and Wellborne. And we are trying to replace that with an oft injured "too-light" Turley.

We went from a top 5 OL to a middle OL at best.

alanm
07-29-2006, 01:42 PM
3-3.

Both Oakland wins and the Texans win.

The Denver, Philly, and Buffalo losses.
Granted he was missed especially in the Buffalo game. Somewhat in the Denver game. Hell both the Denver and the collasph with Philly can be pinned squarely on the defense. :banghead:

jspchief
07-29-2006, 01:45 PM
It's killed the Steelers and Pats for years now...Sure, if you want to ignore the '00 Pats season that netted them Richard Seymour and Matt Light and the '03 Steelers season that got them Ben Roethlisberger.

tk13
07-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Sure, if you want to ignore the '00 Pats season that netted them Richard Seymour and Matt Light and the '03 Steelers season that got them Ben Roethlisberger.
Yeah, we had that chance... and we got Ryan Sims.

CosmicPal
07-29-2006, 01:54 PM
It's always a blow to lose a HOFer from your team. If there's any good news to this- they did at least go out and get Turley. But, more importantly- our OC knows the OL and will make the necessary adjustments to make the offense gell. For instance, we may now employ a zone blocking scheme and utilize the strenghts of each member on the line.

But, I can see a couple of things happening: 1. We will most likely be double-teaming on the outside rush. and 2. Green won't be dropping back as much. Instead, his drop-backs will be shorter and the passing plays will be quicker.

tk13
07-29-2006, 01:59 PM
Granted he was missed especially in the Buffalo game. Somewhat in the Denver game. Hell both the Denver and the collasph with Philly can be pinned squarely on the defense. :banghead:
I don't think he was the sole reason we lost the Philly game, the defense did a nice little number there, but that was the game where Tony G. complained because we kept him in to block the whole game and he only had like 5 yards receiving.

jspchief
07-29-2006, 02:04 PM
Yeah, we had that chance... and we got Ryan Sims.I'm certainly not trying to claim that a high draft pick is necessary to win a SB, or a guarantee of future success.

I was just responding to what I perceived as a claim NE and PIT had success in spite of never getting high picks.

I agree with Mecca's comment about the middle of the road W/L record (7-9 t 9-7). It sucks. Not good enough to get into the play-offs, and never bad enough to draft "elite" prospects. I'm not saying I want the team to do poorly, just agreeing that there's less to get excited about in that position.

jspchief
07-29-2006, 02:09 PM
What was our record over those six games without Roaf last year? Anybody know? I'd like to know that before giving out my new predictions.3-3

We lost to Denver, Philly, and Buffalo.

And our two worst offensive performances came with Roaf on the sideline.

Last year in a radio interview, Mitch Holthus gave the winning percentage of Roaf's teams with him on the field versus when he was injured. It was ugly. I'll try and get it from him again on Monday when our local station interviews him.

Count Alex's Losses
07-29-2006, 02:26 PM
Our defense sucked against Philly and Denver last year...I don't think they'll be anywhere near that bad this year.

We're going to be prepared this year without Roaf. Last year we weren't.

Messier
07-29-2006, 02:57 PM
The Buffalo game was soooo frustrating because it could have easily been a win. We out played the Bills. It came down to needing to run the ball more and those two long bombs that the great J.P. Losman threw for tds.

R&GHomer
07-29-2006, 05:17 PM
I don't think he was the sole reason we lost the Philly game, the defense did a nice little number there, but that was the game where Tony G. complained because we kept him in to block the whole game and he only had like 5 yards receiving.

The Defense and coaching cost us that game. The offense did it's job in the first half, but Al had to get cute in the second half and the Defense was just horrible.

Halfcan
07-29-2006, 08:46 PM
What a bullshit article, we will still kick ass this year. Hey Fatlock have you even seen our schedule? Everybody needs to quit the f#cking crying.

Mecca
07-29-2006, 08:58 PM
What a bullshit article, we will still kick ass this year. Hey Fatlock have you even seen our schedule? Everybody needs to quit the f#cking crying.

We're doomed now.......you jinxed it.

GoHuge
07-29-2006, 10:36 PM
I'm certainly not trying to claim that a high draft pick is necessary to win a SB, or a guarantee of future success.

I was just responding to what I perceived as a claim NE and PIT had success in spite of never getting high picks.

I agree with Mecca's comment about the middle of the road W/L record (7-9 t 9-7). It sucks. Not good enough to get into the play-offs, and never bad enough to draft "elite" prospects. I'm not saying I want the team to do poorly, just agreeing that there's less to get excited about in that position.Would you consider Larry Johnson who rushed for over 2000 yards his senior year not an "elite" prospect at #27? Everything about #27 looks pretty elite. I understand what your saying. Not disagreeing just making a point.

TrickyNicky
07-29-2006, 11:00 PM
3-3.

Both Oakland wins and the Texans win.

The Denver, Philly, and Buffalo losses.

Some additional stats for this:

Sacks/yd lost

1-8 Oakland
2-10 Denver
3-12 Philly
3-28 Oakland
6-54 Buffalo
0-0 Houston

15-112 Total without Roaf

32 total sacks minus those W/O Roaf = 17 sacks in 10 games

1.7 Sacks per game with Roaf
2.5 Sacks per game without Roaf

Ouch

Mosbonian
07-29-2006, 11:10 PM
To hear people talk it would be impossible to win the Super Bowl without Roaf, yet 40 teams have done it and not a single one of them had Willie Roaf at LT.

I think it is a big loss, but it isn't the end of our season.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=144463&page=5&pp=15


Kind of the same sentiment I had in Post #75 on this thread...

mmaddog
*******

Nightwish
07-30-2006, 12:15 AM
JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY
COMMENTARY
OPTIMISM GRINDS TO HALT
Guess we can thank Willie Roaf for Ty Law, Kyle Turley and Tamba Haliís on-time-for-camp signing.

Things were going much too smoothly at Arrowhead Stadium this summer for something really terrible not to be driving Carl Petersonís actions. Now we know: Arguably the Chiefsí most valuable player had told Peterson and coach Herm Edwards that his playing career is over.

And now everything makes sense. The Chiefs dusted off Kyle Turley, sweet-talked Ty Law and paid Tamba Hali to mask the stink of Roaf retiring.

Problem is, weíre just not that stupid. Roafís exit puts a dark cloud on what previously had been the most anticipated Kansas City football season since the 1998 disaster.

My optimism has been replaced by fear ó fear of Trent Green getting steamrolled by defensive ends traveling the Jordan Black Expressway to quarterbacks. Green is an iron man. Heís played five years and 80 regular-season games without missing a start. Itís difficult to imagine that streak continuing with Roaf at home awaiting his invitation to Canton, Ohio.

Anyone holding out hope that Priest Holmes might decide to return needs to let that fantasy go. Holmes would be foolish to play this season without Roaf. Nope. Let Larry Johnson carry that burden. Heís young and desiring a megacontract. He can take the hits.

Oh, itís going to be MartyBall all the way this season. Edwards has no choice. The Chiefs will have pass-protection problems, receiver Eddie Kennison isnít happy with his contract, and Al Saundersí imagination is now in our nationís capital.

New offensive coordinator Mike Solari is going to pound the football. The Chiefs will try to control the clock and play solid defense.

I donít have a problem with that plan. I just question whether they have the depth to pull it off. Remember, thereís no depth behind Johnson. Tony Richardson plays in Minnesota. Will Shields is old. And the Chiefs are still banking on Ryan Sims improving their defensive front four.

This is an absolute disaster. Whatís worse is Roafís explanation for retiring. He said his body was worn out by four years of being locked in Dick Vermeilís boot camp in-season and offseason programs.

Vermeilís marathon practices shortened the career of one of the best offensive tackles in the history of the game. Roaf said his body didnít feel right in May, and he let Peterson and Edwards know he was going to retire. Roaf said he even filed his retirement paperwork.

Of course, Peterson failed to share this bit of information with us. Peterson thinks Big Willie is going to change his mind. Peterson thinks Big Willie hates training camp and might change his mind later.

Hmm. Peterson didnít want anything to interfere with season-ticket sales. He didnít want to spend the whole offseason listening to experts speculate about what the Chiefs would do to fix their offensive line.

You canít fix the hole Roaf created. A tackle combination of Jordan Black and Kyle Turley is a far cry from Roaf and Anybody.

Can the Chiefs still make the playoffs? Yes, they can sneak in as a wild card. But theyíre no longer a legitimate Super Bowl threat. Not unless Hali and Law turn Kansas Cityís defense into a real strength.

This news is a just a terrible kick in the gut. Iím more sad than mad. Fatlockis a dumbass.

jspchief
07-30-2006, 11:14 AM
Would you consider Larry Johnson who rushed for over 2000 yards his senior year not an "elite" prospect at #27? Everything about #27 looks pretty elite. I understand what your saying. Not disagreeing just making a point.Sure. I can use hindsight to call a lot of draft picks great over the course of many seasons.

But that wasn't really the point that was being made. I think Mecca was referring to the excitement of an individual season. Win a lot of games, and you have the play-offs to be excited about. Win only a few games, and you have a high draft pick to be excited about. Somewhere in the middle, and you basically get the Chiefs for the last 20 years.