Anyone REALLY into professional cooking knives?

[Fire Me Boy!]

My brother (Trench, lurcher here on CP) bought be a VERY nice Tojiro gyoto from http://www.japanesechefsknife.com -- consequently, the gift that keeps on giving. Not only do I have a very nice knife, now I've gotten to be quite snobbish about the knives I want. No longer will Wüstoff do -- I want better.

Anyway, he turned me onto this website from a Japanese maker... VERY cool: http://watanabeblade.com/english/

[Brock]

They come in handy if you ever need to cut a beer can in half.

[Baby Lee]

www.cutco.com

[Fire Me Boy!]

www.cutco.com
Uh... not exactly what I had in mind.

[Fire Me Boy!]

They come in handy if you ever need to cut a beer can in half.
Oh, I would have a friggin' cow!

[Baby Lee]

Uh... not exactly what I had in mind.
Soooo, . . you want good, but not quite THAT good?
You might want to look closer, Cutco ain't no Ginsu.

[Saulbadguy]

I've got the Ronco showtime knives. Set it, and forget it.

[MOhillbilly]

i dont fug w/ cheap knives anymore either.

http://www.coldsteel.com/
Gunsite II is what i carry now.

Recon I w/ tanto blade will be my next.

these are tools i use mine atleast 15 times a day. Ive had just about every major brand high and low end blades avail. and Cold Steel makes the best imo.

used and abused and never broken a blade.
never a malfunction w/ the locking mech.

[WARPARTY70]

Jason Simpson was into professional cooking knives

[Fire Me Boy!]

Soooo, . . you want good, but not quite THAT good?
You might want to look closer, Cutco ain't no Ginsu.
I'm not going to get into an argument about Cutco. Cutco is a fine knife, and their warranty is probably the best you can find. But they aren't quite the quality I'm talking about.

[jspchief]

So these Watanabe are supposed to be the bees knees, but you can get a 6 knife set for $200?
ROFL

[Calcountry]

I've got the Ronco showtime knives. Set it, and forget it.ROFL But wait, you simply cannot take set it, and forget it literally.

[Fire Me Boy!]

So these Watanabe are supposed to be the bees knees, but you can get a 6 knife set for $200?
ROFL
I didn't say they were the bee's knees. I said they were beyond Cutco. What you're looking at is part of their standard set... try these:

http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/damascusknife.htm $950-$1,400
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/damascuschefknife.htm $1,000-$1,100
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/damascuschinesecleaver.htm $1,400
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/engraving.htm $475
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/pro/cleaver.htm $320-$340

Go to the ultimate blades or the professional series. Smaller knives hit $100 in the pro series, larger ones up to $300 or so. Single knives. Ultimate series start around $500.

[svuba]

i dont fug w/ cheap knives anymore either.

http://www.coldsteel.com/
Gunsite II is what i carry now.

Recon I w/ tanto blade will be my next.

these are tools i use mine atleast 15 times a day. Ive had just about every major brand high and low end blades avail. and Cold Steel makes the best imo.

used and abused and never broken a blade.
never a malfunction w/ the locking mech.


That Gunsite II looks like a very nice tool.
What do you use it for?

[MOhillbilly]

That Gunsite II looks like a very nice tool.
What do you use it for?

since im still running the warehouse while they try and replace me, i use it daily to cut boxes and break down skids/boxes ect.
i also use it around the house and farm for sundries and such.

eat my grub w/ it when the women folk arent around.

FTR the tang on the gunsite is equal to a 4C custom.

[MOhillbilly]

I didn't say they were the bee's knees. I said they were beyond Cutco. What you're looking at is part of their standard set... try these:

http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/damascusknife.htm $950-$1,400
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/damascuschefknife.htm $1,000-$1,100
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/damascuschinesecleaver.htm $1,400
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/engraving.htm $475
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/pro/cleaver.htm $320-$340

Go to the ultimate blades or the professional series. Smaller knives hit $100 in the pro series, larger ones up to $300 or so. Single knives. Ultimate series start around $500.


damascus steel is 100 years outta date.

[chagrin]

Fire Me Boy!

How long have you been serious about cooking?

[Phobia]

If there's something better than cutco I don't need it.

[Demonpenz]

I steal the butter knives from mcdonalds

[Fire Me Boy!]

damascus steel is 100 years outta date.
Damascus is not necessarily a steel, it's a style. You know the style that has wavy lines in it -- that style.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Fire Me Boy!

How long have you been serious about cooking?
A very long time. I got in to it when I was pretty young -- 20 years ago, or so. It's at a point where once my wife is out of school I'll probably go back to culinary school.

[chagrin]

A very long time. I got in to it when I was pretty young -- 20 years ago, or so. It's at a point where once my wife is out of school I'll probably go back to culinary school.


I was just curious, I thought it was something that you had recently gotten into.

[MOhillbilly]

Damascus is not necessarily a steel, it's a style. You know the style that has wavy lines in it -- that style.

regardless that 'style' itsan alloy.




the point was that there are harder

more flexable modern alloys that cost 3/4 less.

[Fire Me Boy!]

I was just curious, I thought it was something that you had recently gotten into.
No, recently got into high-end knives because I'd never spent the money on a really good one.

As for Cutco... very little research will show the following: they're stamped not forged. Forged is better.

It's 440A stainless steel, while most professional grade are 440C, which has a higher carbon content and therefore will hold an edge better.

They're serrated -- not good for handling things like meat where it will tear.

More expensive than other knives of equal or better quality.

Norman Weinstein, a nationally recognized kitchen knife skills instructor, was quoted by the Baltimore Sun newspaper as saying, "Why, why, would you buy such a knife?"

Many reviewers consider Cutco knives to be at least acceptable, though difficult to maintain and expensive.

While I will recognize they are used by a TON of people in their homes, VERY FEW professional chefs use them. And, sorry if I believe that pro chefs might know a thing or two about knives. :shake:

[Fire Me Boy!]

regardless that 'style' itsan alloy.

the point was that there are harder, more flexable modern alloys that cost 3/4 less.
Harder isn't always better. If it's over about a 65RC it's a bitch to sharpen. But if it's under a 55RC or so it won't hold an edge very well.

[chagrin]

No, recently got into high-end knives because I'd never spent the money on a really good one.

As for Cutco... very little research will show the following: they're stamped not forged. Forged is better.

It's 440A stainless steel, while most professional grade are 440C, which has a higher carbon content and therefore will hold an edge better.

They're serrated -- not good for handling things like meat where it will tear.

More expensive than other knives of equal or better quality.

Norman Weinstein, a nationally recognized kitchen knife skills instructor, was quoted by the Baltimore Sun newspaper as saying, "Why, why, would you buy such a knife?"

Many reviewers consider Cutco knives to be at least acceptable, though difficult to maintain and expensive.

While I will recognize they are used by a TON of people in their homes, VERY FEW professional chefs use them. And, sorry if I believe that pro chefs might know a thing or two about knives. :shake:


Just so you know, I wasn't attempting to debate cutco, I don't doubt your skills, I was simply curious that's all.

[mlyonsd]

All knives are only as good as the person sharpening them.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Just so you know, I wasn't attempting to debate cutco, I don't doubt your skills, I was simply curious that's all.
Not at all! Sorry, that bit about Cutco just got tacked on (inadvertently) to the post I responded about your curiosity. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that!

[MOhillbilly]

why dont you just make your own?

I had mine handed down to me from my father.

Full tang made from a crosscut saw.

Hardw/ flex,sharpen easy get razor sharp and stay that way.

[Fire Me Boy!]

All knives are only as good as the person sharpening them.
While true to some extent, the craftsmanship of the blade does matter. Take an expert sharpener: he can sharpen a Wustoff sharper than a Chicago Cutlery every time.

[MOhillbilly]

FMB have you seen anything commercial w/ the cpm-s90 v?

[luv]

A man that can cook is sexy....as long a he's not coming after you with one of his knives.

[Moooo]

I'm not following this. Why would you pay hundreds of dollars for a knife when you can get one that is 90% as good for half the price?

This strikes me as kind of like snap-on tools. Unless that's all you do for a living a Stanley set or Craftsman will do just as well, and still give you that lifetime warranty.

I'm not saying its dumb by any means, but unless all you do is cut day in and day out, what good does that extra 10% do?

Moooo, who wouldn't know a good knife if he saw it

[mlyonsd]

While true to some extent, the craftsmanship of the blade does matter. Take an expert sharpener: he can sharpen a Wustoff sharper than a Chicago Cutlery every time.

And not every knife should have the same edge put on it. Depending on what it's used for, it can be oversharpened.

[MOhillbilly]

And not every knife should have the same edge put on it. Depending on what it's used for, it can be oversharpened.


interesting- give a run down if youre in the know.

[cdcox]

As a favor to someone, I recently listened to a Cutco pitch at work. This woman was really into Cutco, having sold them for many years and actuall trains new Cutco reps. As part of the demo, you are supposed to bring some knives from home to compare against the Cutco in some every day tasks. For the most part I brought some cheap old knives becasue I didn't want to bring my good ones to work. But for the steak knife, I brought a Henckels knife. When she saw it, she was like, "You have Henckels! Oh, I'd kill to have a set of those!"

I'm not claiming that Henckels are the best or best value, becuase they aren't. But Cutco, while a decent knife, are not quite up to snuff when it comes to high end kitchen knives.

[Fire Me Boy!]

And not every knife should have the same edge put on it. Depending on what it's used for, it can be oversharpened.
Absolutely right... the point I was making was that the sharpener is not the only consideration. Better material will yield a better blade.

[Fire Me Boy!]

FMB have you seen anything commercial w/ the cpm-s90 v?
No -- only seen a handful of custom knife makers that do it.

[Fire Me Boy!]

As a favor to someone, I recently listened to a Cutco pitch at work. This woman was really into Cutco, having sold them for many years and actuall trains new Cutco reps. As part of the demo, you are supposed to bring some knives from home to compare against the Cutco in some every day tasks. For the most part I brought some cheap old knives becasue I didn't want to bring my good ones to work. But for the steak knife, I brought a Henckels knife. When she saw it, she was like, "You have Henckels! Oh, I'd kill to have a set of those!"

I'm not claiming that Henckels are the best or best value, becuase they aren't. But Cutco, while a decent knife, are not quite up to snuff when it comes to high end kitchen knives.
THANK YOU!

[mlyonsd]

interesting- give a run down if youre in the know.

I am by no means an expert. Just used to cut meat for a living in an earlier life.

Take for example a pocket knife. What do you usually cut with one? Absolutley everything. Strip wire, cut plastic, etc.

If you put the same edge on a pocket knife as you would say a filet knife, sure it will be sharp for a while but will dull quicker because the edge is so thin for it can't take the abuse. And because a filet knife edge has such a thin angle more of the blade will curl once you abuse it, thus making it actually more dull sooner if you had put the correct edge on it in the first place. Unless of course you're into steeling your pocket knife, but even that will become ineffective with time.

See what I mean?

So the key is to match the edge with the tool, not necessarily try and make it the absolute sharpest it can be.

I bought a sharpening kit from Cabelas that I really like. It uses different angled guides depending on what kind of knife/scissors you are sharpening. If you're interested I can find a link and send it to you.

Either that or you're going to just laugh at me and call me a dumb chit.

[Baby Lee]

Cutco is a fine knife, and their warranty is probably the best you can find.
That second part is probably the most important, for me.
Every year or so, I send every knife I have back. And they just give me brand new ones on 75%, and the rest are as good as brand new. No questions, no hassle.

[Fire Me Boy!]

If you're interested: Shun on sale at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BQ83BCE/?kinja_price=59&tag=kinjadeals-20&ascsubtag=0ad757e6d4e669385c3273925f501669ab6c941f&rawdata=%5Br%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Ffeedly.com%2Fi%2Fsubscription%2Ffeed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fdeals.kinja.com%2Frs s%5Bt%7Clink%5Bp%7C1785733125%5Ba%7CB00BQ83BCE%5Bau%7C5727177402741770316%5Bb%7Cdeals

[Fire Me Boy!]

A man that can cook is sexy....as long a he's not coming after you with one of his knives.

Reading back through, this made me laugh. Enjoying your chef baby daddy? :)

[Fire Me Boy!]

Also, that Tojiro in the OP is still probably my favorite chef's knife that I own.

[luv]

Reading back through, this made me laugh. Enjoying your chef baby daddy? :)

Oh wow. Who knew back then that I'd end up with a chef? And, any chef worth his salt is serious about his knives. Obsessive. Like, no one else can use them.

And yes, I love the chef baby daddy. :) Although, since he spends all of his time cooking at work, he often likes for me to cook for him....or to order pizza or grab Wendy's. When he gets in the mood to get creative though... Mmmmm....

[Fire Me Boy!]

Oh wow. Who knew back then that I'd end up with a chef? And, any chef worth his salt is serious about his knives. Obsessive. Like, no one else can use them.

And yes, I love the chef baby daddy. :) Although, since he spends all of his time cooking at work, he often likes for me to cook for him....or to order pizza or grab Wendy's. When he gets in the mood to get creative though... Mmmmm....

Well, you've at least been consistent for 10 years. :)

[Baby Lee]

That second part is probably the most important, for me.
Every year or so, I send every knife I have back. And they just give me brand new ones on 75%, and the rest are as good as brand new. No questions, no hassle.

Sent in all my Cutco again last X-mas, including a bunch of stuff mom found at flea markets. Everything as good as the first day I got in back in 91-92.

That said, you can tell the difference between brand new, and 2-3 years of daily use with the serrated knives. So I just send them in with the rest [same $7 S&H regardless of size of package] whenever I decide I need a rejuvenation. I now have 2 of my most important knives [parer, French chef, trimmer] so I can get by with the 'skeleton crew' of knives while they're in transit.

[Great Expectations]

How much better are Shun knives than the forged Henckles I have?

[Fire Me Boy!]

How much better are Shun knives than the forged Henckles I have?

I've never used a Shun, but their reputation is good. If I had any need whatsoever for another chef's knife (I have the Tojiro, I have a handmade santoku, I have two Kickstarter Misens coming soon, I have a Victorinox; it's a borderline fetish, I know it's a problem, don't judge me), I'd pick one of those Shuns up for $60 in a second.

[Dave Lane]

My brother (Trench, lurcher here on CP) bought be a VERY nice Tojiro gyoto from http://www.japanesechefsknife.com -- consequently, the gift that keeps on giving. Not only do I have a very nice knife, now I've gotten to be quite snobbish about the knives I want. No longer will Wüstoff do -- I want better.

Anyway, he turned me onto this website from a Japanese maker... VERY cool: http://watanabeblade.com/english/

I have some Japanese knives that are over 600 years old and still extremely sharp. It is a Koto Tanto.

[Halfcan]

www.cutco.com

I sold these in college for a semester. I still use my set all the time.

[HemiEd]

Still loving the large Global Chef knife I got for Christmas. It is as good as I will ever need. I catch myself using it for everything.

[Halfcan]

Sent in all my Cutco again last X-mas, including a bunch of stuff mom found at flea markets. Everything as good as the first day I got in back in 91-92.

That said, you can tell the difference between brand new, and 2-3 years of daily use with the serrated knives. So I just send them in with the rest [same $7 S&H regardless of size of package] whenever I decide I need a rejuvenation. I now have 2 of my most important knives [parer, French chef, trimmer] so I can get by with the 'skeleton crew' of knives while they're in transit.

I have had my main butchers knife over 20 years. In the last year, it got a bad chip in the blade. I forgot that it is a lifetime deal. Going to send it in this week.

[Baby Lee]

I sold these in college for a semester. I still use my set all the time.

Me too, and unfortunately I grew up with one of the best salesmen of my era. He started 6 months ahead of me and sold literally [proper usage] 100s of thousands of dollars worth to my similar circle of acquaintances a few months ahead of me.

Dude made over $65K over a single summer back in 91-92ish.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Still loving the large Global Chef knife I got for Christmas. It is as good as I will ever need. I catch myself using it for everything.

Global has some great stuff.

[eDave]

I sold these in college for a semester. I still use my set all the time.

Ditto. Lost my scissors though. Loved those scissors. How am I supposed to make a corkscrew now?

[Halfcan]

Ditto. Lost my scissors though. Loved those scissors. How am I supposed to make a corkscrew now?

Exactly-how are you suppose to cut a penny in half?

[Halfcan]

Me too, and unfortunately I grew up with one of the best salesmen of my era. He started 6 months ahead of me and sold literally [proper usage] 100s of thousands of dollars worth to my similar circle of acquaintances a few months ahead of me.

Dude made over $65K over a single summer back in 91-92ish.

I made just enough to have some beer money on Wednesday nights down on Pine Street.

Some of guys in the office were raking it in. I think they were selling more blow than knives.

[kccrow]

regardless that 'style' itsan alloy.




the point was that there are harder

more flexable modern alloys that cost 3/4 less.

Kind of correct. Modern day "Demascus" steel is made from a forge welded billet of various alloy steels and iron or carbon steal. Most actually just use a nickel alloy steel and a carbon steel for high contrast and two variations of carbon steel (one high, one low) for low contrast. It's drawn out and folded hundreds of times, then forged into a blade stock. Its then ground to shape and hardened, then finish ground and sharpened.

I love a low contrast with a hamon line, they look so sweet. Here's a pic of a started katana with what I'm talking, couldn't find a knife though quickly... http://bladesmithsforum.com/uploads/post-1451-1181363157.jpg

[kccrow]

By the way if you can get a Damascus knife that's a carbon/carbon low contrast (like 1050/1095), its going to hold a superb edge and you can have it belt sharpened to be a razor.

But, like MOhillbilly was talking, some other stels can hold a really amazing edge. S30V just may be the best steel out there but you normally don't see it in the kitchen knives because of flexibility/thinness. It's high carbon and vanadium. There are others, D2, S90V, etc. Best kitchen knives are usually high carbon steel, 1095, or the like. That or some Japanese variant, like Hitachi Aogami.



EDIT: If you want to look for Aogami knives, look at Yoshihiro. I think Shun makes some too.

[Fire Me Boy!]

If anyone's interested in picking up one of those Victorinox chef's knives, Amazon has 'em on sale right now for $28.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/ref=twister_B01MYMPVKO?_encoding=UTF8&tag=kinjadeals-20&ascsubtag=59fbf28424633c8a41db741530307b69b6e4f854&rawdata=%5Br%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fdeals.kinja.com%2Fone-of-your-favorite-multitools-is-down-to-its-lowest-p-1789729222%5Bks%7Cyoumayalsolike%5Bt%7Clink%5Bp%7C1789703360%5Ba%7CB000638D32%5Bau%7C572717740274177 0316%5Bb%7Cdeals&th=1

[Spokane Chief Fan]

Thanks for the heads up. I just bought two.

[suzzer99]

Is one of these is that knife that's only made by 1 guy to order and he's backed up for years? Tony Bourdain was all excited when he got his.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Is one of these is that knife that's only made by 1 guy to order and he's backed up for years? Tony Bourdain was all excited when he got his.



Yes. And it's $28, but you won't get it till 2020.

[Great Expectations]

I like knives, what's so special about this stamped knife? How does it compare to a forged Henkel?

[Saccopoo]

I like knives, what's so special about this stamped knife?

Nothing.

How does it compare to a forged Henkel?

It's cheaper.

[tx4chiefs]

www.cutco.com

These knives are so sharp, they'll cut your finger off in not careful.

[Saccopoo]

These knives are so sharp, they'll cut your finger off in not careful.

That's kind of a thing with any knife.

Are they really still selling these pieces of shit?