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Deberg_1990
08-05-2006, 11:22 AM
So does anybody know hows this is supposed to make my life better?? How will it be better than XP? What are the differences? Wil it be worth the upgrade??

SLAG
08-05-2006, 11:29 AM
Short..
No.. Not better than XP... less stable... More Eye Candy....

No not worth the upgrade...

Im guessing its the new Windows ME

JBucc
08-05-2006, 11:31 AM
Isn't it like another year or something before the final version comes out anyway?

Deberg_1990
08-05-2006, 11:34 AM
Im guessing its the new Windows ME


hahah..lets hope not......but yea, most of the stuff ive seen looks cosmetic. XP works just fine for me. Its the best operating system Microsoft has ever built.

SLAG
08-05-2006, 11:36 AM
hahah..lets hope not......but yea, most of the stuff ive seen looks cosmetic. XP works just fine for me. Its the best operating system Microsoft has ever built.

:hmmm:

I thought 2000 was the best from M$ IMHO


but you know i will be quick to pimp linux any chance i get

:D

Fish
08-05-2006, 11:37 AM
Short..
No.. Not better than XP... less stable... More Eye Candy....

No not worth the upgrade...

Im guessing its the new Windows ME

I don't agree Mr. Slag.... I've been testing Vista for a few months, and it has some great features.

There's no way it would turn into the next ME..... they've put too much into it.

Here's a great article comparing them side by side. It's not too technical, but it gives you an idea.

ClickClickClickity (http://www.bentuser.com/article.aspx?ID=332&page=1)

Vista does have some rather high minimum specs for running it though... One being a video card with 128MB of video memory. Quite a few people's machines aren't going to meet the min requirements...

Fish
08-05-2006, 11:40 AM
:hmmm:

I thought 2000 was the best from M$ IMHO

If it were 1999, your statement would be correct..........

Today.... uhh uhh..... I could show you a ton of exploits in 2K that M$ has pretty much just given up on.

SLAG
08-05-2006, 11:48 AM
I don't agree Mr. Slag.... I've been testing Vista for a few months, and it has some great features.

There's no way it would turn into the next ME..... they've put too much into it.

Here's a great article comparing them side by side. It's not too technical, but it gives you an idea.

ClickClickClickity (http://www.bentuser.com/article.aspx?ID=332&page=1)

Vista does have some rather high minimum specs for running it though... One being a video card with 128MB of video memory. Quite a few people's machines aren't going to meet the min requirements...

]
THanks for the link


Ok maybe the next ME would not be quite correct..

it seems that most of Vistas new features have been avaible in other O.S' for years..


vistas Angle task switch is nice but the XGL cube on linux is better..


http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/thumb/c/cb/Movie-cube.jpg/350px-Movie-cube.jpg

here is a link for some videos on XGL

http://theendlessnow.com/ten/Articles/Articles

i know i know different strokes for differnt folks.. but still..

Vista is too little too late from M$ and the fact that they wont include the meat and potatos of the VISTA project ( the new "Faster" file system) is a disappointment... they plan to release it in the "VISTA PLUS" package.. just more ploy by Microsoft...

anyway..

i was not impressed with vista its just too bad that "Joe Home User" wont expand his computing to think outside the MS kool-Aid box

Fish
08-05-2006, 12:02 PM
i was not impressed with vista its just too bad that "Joe Home User" wont expand his computing to think outside the MS kool-Aid box

Ohh I agree... most people are going to blindly follow along and buy Vista just because it's the next M$ project.... and many of them will no doubt buy Vista before realizing they don't meet the min specs, which will result in a computer upgrade....

But you gotta remember, most people still find Linux incredibly intimidating when they really shouldn't. And often times when you tell "Joe Home User" that he can't run Roller Coaster Tycoon on Linux, he'll run right back under that big M$ tent.

And I agree that M$ is taking a lot of ideas from other OSs, but most of the sheeple have never used another OS, so they don't realize it's not a new feature. You'd be surprised how closely some of the features resemble OS X ideas as well.

morphius
08-05-2006, 12:53 PM
I doubt many people will upgrade, it will just be a case of people replacing their old computer with a new one with Vista on it. Having stronger DRM is not really a feature I'm looking for.

Moooo
08-05-2006, 05:35 PM
Ohh I agree... most people are going to blindly follow along and buy Vista just because it's the next M$ project.... and many of them will no doubt buy Vista before realizing they don't meet the min specs, which will result in a computer upgrade....

But you gotta remember, most people still find Linux incredibly intimidating when they really shouldn't. And often times when you tell "Joe Home User" that he can't run Roller Coaster Tycoon on Linux, he'll run right back under that big M$ tent.

And I agree that M$ is taking a lot of ideas from other OSs, but most of the sheeple have never used another OS, so they don't realize it's not a new feature. You'd be surprised how closely some of the features resemble OS X ideas as well.

Linux does have an intimidation factor. If people used it once, I think it would go away. But for school, I have to send files to teachers in that MS Office format. I don't think I can do that with any Linux programs.

Moooo

SLAG
08-05-2006, 06:17 PM
Linux does have an intimidation factor. If people used it once, I think it would go away. But for school, I have to send files to teachers in that MS Office format. I don't think I can do that with any Linux programs.

Moooo
umm...

yes.. you can


any of the office suites for linux let you save as MS office Documents

Moooo
08-05-2006, 08:53 PM
umm...

yes.. you can


any of the office suites for linux let you save as MS office Documents

I was not aware of that. Like I said I haven't dabbled in the Linux world very much, so I apologise.

Moooo

SLAG
08-05-2006, 10:27 PM
I was not aware of that. Like I said I haven't dabbled in the Linux world very much, so I apologise.

Moooo



No Prob ..

Id reccomend anyone a LIVE DVD/CD to try out..

a bootable CD that wont change your computer... but lets you look and feel what linux is like..

there are so many..

checkout

www.distowatch.org

or www.opensuse.com

Moooo
08-05-2006, 11:03 PM
No Prob ..

Id reccomend anyone a LIVE DVD/CD to try out..

a bootable CD that wont change your computer... but lets you look and feel what linux is like..

there are so many..

checkout

www.distowatch.com

or www.opensuse.com

I've recently changed my major to a Networking degree, so I'm looking forward to being taught the way.

Moooo

Fruit Ninja
08-05-2006, 11:24 PM
If you are a gamer, your going to have no choice but to upgrade to Vista if your want to continue gaming. Directx 10 will be vista only. And you guessed it, Games will soon be directx 10 only. Plus you will need to buy a new freaking video card. Gates again making the rest of us grab our ankles. lol

Braincase
08-05-2006, 11:36 PM
Antispam, antispybot, neat ways to configure the network filter/firewall that makes the thing run like ISA Server lite. Greater access to security mechanisms through Group Policy objects. Deploys as a customizable image that can be deployed through various lite touch and zero touch mechanisms.

I think it will do well on the upcoming generation on systems.

Guru
01-24-2007, 02:21 PM
Hmmm, Microsoft just sent me a free copy of Vista Business edition. Now to decide if I should give it a shot. No this is not an eval or a RC. This is the real thing.

JBucc
01-24-2007, 02:56 PM
Hmmm, Microsoft just sent me a free copy of Vista Business edition. Now to decide if I should give it a shot. No this is not an eval or a RC. This is the real thing.They just sent you a copy right out of the blue?


Anyway if I ever decide to build another gaming rig I'll get Vista obviously, but since I got my 360 now I doubt that will be anytime soon.

Guru
01-24-2007, 03:01 PM
They just sent you a copy right out of the blue?


Anyway if I ever decide to build another gaming rig I'll get Vista obviously, but since I got my 360 now I doubt that will be anytime soon.


Yes and no. I was part of powertogether site but I thought I got in too late to obtain any free gifts. I am assuming that is what this is. Everything is legit on it.

Saulbadguy
01-24-2007, 03:27 PM
Antispam, antispybot, neat ways to configure the network filter/firewall that makes the thing run like ISA Server lite. Greater access to security mechanisms through Group Policy objects. Deploys as a customizable image that can be deployed through various lite touch and zero touch mechanisms.

I think it will do well on the upcoming generation on systems.
WDS is much nicer than RIS.

Guru
01-24-2007, 03:35 PM
They just sent you a copy right out of the blue?


Anyway if I ever decide to build another gaming rig I'll get Vista obviously, but since I got my 360 now I doubt that will be anytime soon.


My system won't run any games beyond the capabilities of Half Life 2 anyway so I won't be able to play any of the new graphics intensive games that will be released on Vista anyway. I am nowhere near the gamer I used to be though. I haven't even finished HL2 Ep2 and I downloaded it way back on its launch day. Just never have time for it.

KCFalcon59
01-24-2007, 05:27 PM
My system won't run any games beyond the capabilities of Half Life 2 anyway so I won't be able to play any of the new graphics intensive games that will be released on Vista anyway. I am nowhere near the gamer I used to be though. I haven't even finished HL2 Ep2 and I downloaded it way back on its launch day. Just never have time for it.

That's because you sleep too much.

Bob Dole
01-24-2007, 05:45 PM
Will Leisuresuit Larry II run okay on Vista?

That's the last PC game Bob Dole bought.

Guru
01-24-2007, 06:05 PM
That's because you sleep too much.

I knew I shouldn't have taken that last job.:)

Count Alex's Losses
01-24-2007, 06:29 PM
I haven't even finished HL2 Ep2 and I downloaded it way back on its launch day. Just never have time for it.

It's like five hours!

Although I haven't even started it. ROFL

Count Alex's Losses
01-24-2007, 06:30 PM
Oh, and I think you mean Episode One. EP2 hasn't been released.

Guru
01-24-2007, 06:43 PM
It's like five hours!

Although I haven't even started it. ROFL

Well, if KCFalcon59 would let me download steam at work, I could knock it out. Yeah, I did mean Ep 1.

Guru
01-24-2007, 06:44 PM
Running Vista now. So far, I like what I see. Things are running very smoothly. Much smoother than XP did. Even IE runs well on this judging by GIF performance.

Braincase
01-24-2007, 10:26 PM
And I agree that M$ is taking a lot of ideas from other OSs, but most of the sheeple have never used another OS, so they don't realize it's not a new feature. You'd be surprised how closely some of the features resemble OS X ideas as well.

Let's think here... my new box has Vista Ultimate on it, as well as Office 2007.

The other OS's I've run in this lifetime... hmmm.. I have certs on Linux and Novell... have worked with HPUX, SunOS, Tru64, XENIX, Mac OS's, Suse, RedHat, Debian, Slackware, OS/400, BSD, Tandem, VMS...

Can I include CPM?

I like Vista.

But then again, what do I know. I've only been working on computers since '77.

Fish
01-25-2007, 09:57 AM
Running Vista now. So far, I like what I see. Things are running very smoothly. Much smoother than XP did. Even IE runs well on this judging by GIF performance.

GIF performance??

Saulbadguy
01-25-2007, 10:01 AM
GIF performance??
Pr0n.

Fish
01-25-2007, 10:19 AM
I thought the true performance test was how fast the cards fell when you won a game of Solitaire.....

Guru
01-25-2007, 02:52 PM
GIF performance??
PUt it this way, my Jack Bauer GIF below didn't perform worth shit on IE using XP but was great under Firefox. Using VISTA and IE there is no difference in performce compared to Firefox.

In my eyes, that was a noticable difference in performance over XP.

All I am saying is that Vista seems to be a much better OS than anything M$ has put out before. And since it was free, the value is outstanding for me.

KC Jones
01-25-2007, 03:27 PM
PUt it this way, my Jack Bauer GIF below didn't perform worth shit on IE using XP but was great under Firefox. Using VISTA and IE there is no difference in performce compared to Firefox.

In my eyes, that was a noticable difference in performance over XP.

All I am saying is that Vista seems to be a much better OS than anything M$ has put out before. And since it was free, the value is outstanding for me.

There's a performance benchmark we can all take seriously.

Saulbadguy
01-25-2007, 03:28 PM
There's a performance benchmark we can all take seriously.
ROFL

Guru
01-25-2007, 04:05 PM
There's a performance benchmark we can all take seriously.

And I really care what you take seriously. I mean seriously.:shake:

Simplex3
01-26-2007, 07:03 PM
I just saw Vista live for the first time today. My very first impression was "who f**ked up their OSX desktop?" Then the guy told me it was Vista. Then I was noticing it drag every now and then, have gaps in performance, etc., so I said "Need a better PC, huh?". To which he responded "This is the most expensive business laptop Dell sells."

F**k Vista.

|Zach|
01-26-2007, 07:07 PM
Ya, I am getting a Mac Book Pro.

Simplex3
01-26-2007, 07:10 PM
Ya, I am getting a Mac Book Pro.
Wise choice.

|Zach|
01-26-2007, 07:19 PM
Wise choice.
I know there is an update of their OS (Leopard) coming up...do you have any idea how long that is going to be?

And after the computer will be more expensive? Or the same thing with an updated OS.

NewChief
01-26-2007, 07:38 PM
I know there is an update of their OS (Leopard) coming up...do you have any idea how long that is going to be?

And after the computer will be more expensive? Or the same thing with an updated OS.

You're not asking me, but anyway:

All I've heard is Spring 2007 for the release. I don't remember prices ever going up on new machines with the release of a new OS, though. Leopard is going to be sweet, btw.

Simplex3
01-26-2007, 07:40 PM
You're not asking me, but anyway:

All I've heard is Spring 2007 for the release. I don't remember prices ever going up on new machines with the release of a new OS, though. Leopard is going to be sweet, btw.
What he said. :)

Guru
01-26-2007, 07:46 PM
Why doesn't Apple just release the proper updates to their OS rather than make you purchase a new OS practically every year?

I am not a big apple fan but I do see it as the more stable OS.

|Zach|
01-26-2007, 07:54 PM
You're not asking me, but anyway:

All I've heard is Spring 2007 for the release. I don't remember prices ever going up on new machines with the release of a new OS, though. Leopard is going to be sweet, btw.
Thanks, I guess I should just hang on a little longer.

NewChief
01-26-2007, 10:15 PM
Why doesn't Apple just release the proper updates to their OS rather than make you purchase a new OS practically every year?

I am not a big apple fan but I do see it as the more stable OS.

That's probably my number one gripe with Apple. At least they've actually slowed down their OS releases, though. For a while they were coming out ridiculously fast without truly significant upgrades that made the purchase worthwhile. As a customer, I obviously wish they'd make them available as upgrades or at least sell the new releases as upgrades, at a reduced price, rather than at full installation price for those customers who have an existing version of the OS.

|Zach|
01-26-2007, 10:27 PM
That's probably my number one gripe with Apple. At least they've actually slowed down their OS releases, though. For a while they were coming out ridiculously fast without truly significant upgrades that made the purchase worthwhile. As a customer, I obviously wish they'd make them available as upgrades or at least sell the new releases as upgrades, at a reduced price, rather than at full installation price for those customers who have an existing version of the OS.
How much for a full install\upgrade?

Guru
01-26-2007, 10:41 PM
That's probably my number one gripe with Apple. At least they've actually slowed down their OS releases, though. For a while they were coming out ridiculously fast without truly significant upgrades that made the purchase worthwhile. As a customer, I obviously wish they'd make them available as upgrades or at least sell the new releases as upgrades, at a reduced price, rather than at full installation price for those customers who have an existing version of the OS.
I haven't upgraded since 10.1. Jaguar I think. I only had one of the old Imac slot loaders so it can't handle anything beyond that. What version are they up to now?

SithCeNtZ
01-26-2007, 11:10 PM
I just saw Vista live for the first time today. My very first impression was "who f**ked up their OSX desktop?" Then the guy told me it was Vista. Then I was noticing it drag every now and then, have gaps in performance, etc., so I said "Need a better PC, huh?". To which he responded "This is the most expensive business laptop Dell sells."

F**k Vista.

Don't think so. Benchmarks say that Vista isn't that much more of a system hog than XP. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/software/vista-benchmarks-say-its-not-really-slower-than-xp-231866.php

Guru
01-26-2007, 11:34 PM
Don't think so. Benchmarks say that Vista isn't that much more of a system hog than XP. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/software/vista-benchmarks-say-its-not-really-slower-than-xp-231866.php
Hell, my PC has been faster since I installed it.

the Talking Can
01-27-2007, 08:14 AM
Don't think so. Benchmarks say that Vista isn't that much more of a system hog than XP. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/software/vista-benchmarks-say-its-not-really-slower-than-xp-231866.php

look at the rig they used to test it:

* Testing System

Intel E6300 Dual Core @ 1.866GHz
* ASUS P5N-E SLI 0307 BIOS
* Corsair 2GB PC2-9136 @ DDR2-1066 4-4-4-12
* ASUS EN7900GT 256MB
* Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB
* Corsair HX620W Power Supply
* Corsair Nautilus 500 Water Cooling
* LG 18x DVD-Burner
* D-Link WiFi Card
* NZXT Apollo Case


So, I need a dual core processor and 2GB memory in order to "only" experience 5% performance drops on most tasks?

And this is considered an upgrade?

some more from the article:

"I have been using Vista Ultimate RTM full time on my Windows rig for over two months and haven't run into any serious problems, except for a few of my favorite applications that still do not function."


"In the two months that I've been using it full time on my Windows machine, I've run into too many weird bugs that I would have liked to have avoided. This ranges from applications not working, quirky UI glitches or hardware drivers not working as well as they should."



I've been waiting on Vista to buy a new computer. But I'm not thrilled with the idea of having to max out my specs just to run a slower OS.

I'm starting to wonder - besides stealing the "look" from Apple, what is the advantage of this new OS?

the Talking Can
01-27-2007, 08:26 AM
here's another article from that same writer here (http://techgage.com/article/top_8_vista_annoyances)

This DRM shit drives me crazy:


" #5 - DRM...

DRM has been a touchy issue with Vista since 2005. For those unaware, DRM is the technology schemes used to protect copyright files. It's the same thing used in the music you purchase online and similar to the protections put on computer games and DVD movies. Fact: DRM is a pain in the ass. I don't believe for a second that Microsoft is putting DRM at the forefront to anger customers, but rather to avoid confrontations with media producers. Just take a look at how Universal is riding them over the Zune.

One feature included in Vista is called OCP Management which takes advantage of various DRM schemes. Most notable is the popular HDCP, a standard that has been getting a lot of attention as of late. Machines using Vista will be unable to play high-definition content such as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD without a capable monitor that supports HDCP. If you are in the situation where you are planning to buy a new monitor for the sake of watching such content on your PC, you will want to make sure that it is fully HDCP-compliant.

There are many other instances where DRM could come into play. Imagine being a fan of a new blockbuster release and wanting to take a small audio snippet from it to use as your Windows startup sound or for use in your IM programs, but not being able to. All ethics aside, there's no doubt DRM has become a burden, but it plans to only get worse."

NewChief
01-27-2007, 08:28 AM
How much for a full install\upgrade?

Tiger Single User is $129.00. Family pack (5 license) is 199.00. They may have some student discounts on that as well. Not sure.


Oh, the person with the other question. They're at 10.4.6. Leopard will be 10.5

KC Jones
01-27-2007, 02:02 PM
I like games enough that I'll probably break down and buy Vista at some point. However my current hardware probably can't handle it very well and certainly can't handle the most recent crop of games. Other than DirectX 10, there is absolutely nothing about Vista that holds my interest, especially not given the performance, bugs, requirements, DRM, etc. that come with it.

Psyko Tek
01-31-2007, 09:54 AM
So did anybody buy this?
I'm not planning to upgrade 'till I have to
just wondering what the difference was from somebody actually using it

SithCeNtZ
01-31-2007, 10:39 AM
So did anybody buy this?
I'm not planning to upgrade 'till I have to
just wondering what the difference was from somebody actually using it

I bought it yesterday. Couldn't get everything to work right on day 1 because Sony/Nvidia hadn't released their updated drivers. So today I installed them and everything works great(Core Duo, 7600 GO 256 MB, 1 GB RAM). I would say the biggest difference is in the little things. Things like being able to preview a picture just by looking at the icon is nice. It is fairly smart about helping install things. For instance I was downloading a gadget and I had it on my desktop with no idea where to find the gadget folder in which to put it in. So I clicked on the gadget and windows alerts me that a gadget file probably goes in such and such a folder and asks me if I want to move it there. Subtle things like that make it feel more fine tuned than XP.The new graphics look nice and the gadgets are fun to mess around with. Office '07 is very nice with many new changes. I'll be happy to answer any other questions abot specific things if you want.

Psyko Tek
01-31-2007, 10:51 AM
nah nothing specific just wondering if it was good, better, or crap, just wanting a feel for it

Fish
01-31-2007, 03:21 PM
Highest current OSX build is 10.4.8

Halfcan
01-31-2007, 11:33 PM
I have a 4 gig laptop-best on the market when I bought it. Sucks now. Vista takes more gigs than I have.

Guru
01-31-2007, 11:44 PM
I have a 4 gig laptop-best on the market when I bought it. Sucks now. Vista takes more gigs than I have.
I am running Vista on a 2.4 gig desktop and it is running like a champ.

Halfcan
01-31-2007, 11:55 PM
I am running Vista on a 2.4 gig desktop and it is running like a champ.

wow I tried to put Windows xp on mine but couldn't, I am running 98 right now. :)

Guru
02-01-2007, 12:03 AM
wow I tried to put Windows xp on mine but couldn't, I am running 98 right now. :)
When you say 4 gig, you are referring to processing power correct?

Halfcan
02-01-2007, 12:21 AM
hard drive

Guru
02-01-2007, 12:28 AM
hard drive
aha. Well that is a whole different thing altogether. XP can run on a hard drive of that size but it would be a waste of your time. I also have to assume that a computer with an HD that size is probably 333Mhz processor too. If so, XP will just kill it.

Halfcan
02-01-2007, 03:13 AM
Your right 333 and your also right, it would eat it for breakfast.

htismaqe
02-01-2007, 09:20 AM
here's another article from that same writer here (http://techgage.com/article/top_8_vista_annoyances)

This DRM shit drives me crazy:


" #5 - DRM...

DRM has been a touchy issue with Vista since 2005. For those unaware, DRM is the technology schemes used to protect copyright files. It's the same thing used in the music you purchase online and similar to the protections put on computer games and DVD movies. Fact: DRM is a pain in the ass. I don't believe for a second that Microsoft is putting DRM at the forefront to anger customers, but rather to avoid confrontations with media producers. Just take a look at how Universal is riding them over the Zune.

One feature included in Vista is called OCP Management which takes advantage of various DRM schemes. Most notable is the popular HDCP, a standard that has been getting a lot of attention as of late. Machines using Vista will be unable to play high-definition content such as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD without a capable monitor that supports HDCP. If you are in the situation where you are planning to buy a new monitor for the sake of watching such content on your PC, you will want to make sure that it is fully HDCP-compliant.

There are many other instances where DRM could come into play. Imagine being a fan of a new blockbuster release and wanting to take a small audio snippet from it to use as your Windows startup sound or for use in your IM programs, but not being able to. All ethics aside, there's no doubt DRM has become a burden, but it plans to only get worse."

That's not Microsoft's fault. The entertainment industry and their army of lawyers are behind DRM...