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View Full Version : My theory on why we are bad against the bootlege: hint it is the DTs


Logical
08-13-2006, 12:14 AM
That is right because we get no push up the middle from the DTs the DEs have to crash. Proper technique is to rush straight for about 2 yards then crash. If we do that the QB will get all the time in the world and the bootleg won't even be an issue because we will have no pressure at all.


JMHO

Deberg_1990
08-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Granted we have been bad against the bootleg, but lets give Denver, Kubiak and Shanahan some credit here too. Ive seen them make many a team look stupid trying to defend it. Its not just us that has problems with it. How do you think they have been so successful for so many years??

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 12:20 AM
New rule: Logical is banned in future preseasons.

Rausch
08-13-2006, 12:21 AM
We're bad against the bootleg due to a lack of discipline and ability to recognize the play...

Logical
08-13-2006, 12:23 AM
New rule: Logical is banned in future preseasons.WTF, this is just a thread about an obvious flaw in our defense. You have some real football insight to add. Then add it. If not why don't you just avoid the thread or at least quit acting like such a pussy.

Rausch
08-13-2006, 12:26 AM
Granted we have been bad against the bootleg, but lets give Denver, Kubiak and Shanahan some credit here too.

Let's not, and trip their children as they walk to the bus...

Logical
08-13-2006, 12:32 AM
We're bad against the bootleg due to a lack of discipline and ability to recognize the play...

If it mattered who we had playing DE then I would agree. But you watch those bootlegs and the DEs crash immediately. I personally believe they are being coached to crash immediately to make up for our DT shortfall in push.


In other words even I don't believe Gunther is that bad as a DC.

DaWolf
08-13-2006, 12:47 AM
In other words even I don't believe Gunther is that bad as a DC.

Well that makes one of us.

The guy should have never been rehired. We'll get to enjoy watching Denver shred us apart with this again in week 2...

Logical
08-13-2006, 12:53 AM
Well that makes one of us.

The guy should have never been rehired. We'll get to enjoy watching Denver shred us apart with this again in week 2...ON both points we agree. Worse yet Herm kept him. :Lin:

As far as I can see it was Herm's only bad coaching decision but I wonder if it was somewhat pushed on him by Carl.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 12:55 AM
I think Herm just wanted to maintain continuity within the defense. The players DO like Gunther. That's more than can be said for the last defensive coordinator.

Rausch
08-13-2006, 01:05 AM
Well that makes one of us.

The guy should have never been rehired. We'll get to enjoy watching Denver shred us apart with this again in week 2...


And they will.

Of course, game 2 we'll shut them down and trounce their azzes.

Why that seems to happen every year is beyond me...

Halfcan
08-13-2006, 01:18 AM
I think the occasional saftey blitz by Bonecrusher would help stop it.

We did not blitz once that I saw.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 01:18 AM
I think the occasional saftey blitz by Bonecrusher would help stop it.

We did not blitz once that I saw.

Vanilla defense.

Logical
08-13-2006, 01:41 AM
I think the occasional saftey blitz by Bonecrusher would help stop it.

We did not blitz once that I saw.I don't know how you missed them, they were so transparent Dawson was calling them every time before the snap even occurred. Pretty pathetic and yet amusing.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 01:47 AM
That's interesting. I wonder why Gunther wasn't screaming BOOTLEG! BOOTLEG! BOOTLEG! into his headset up in the booth? Perhaps he is dumber than we give him credit for.

Smed1065
08-13-2006, 01:51 AM
Or at least flip them off.......Damn it!

kcjayhawks5
08-13-2006, 01:51 AM
New rule: Logical is banned in future preseasons.


ROFL uve been givin him shit all night

Logical
08-13-2006, 03:14 AM
ROFL uve been givin him shit all nightYou have?

Mojo Rising
08-13-2006, 06:15 AM
It is not the DT's fault. It is the perimter defender's.

Gunther's "Mad Scientist" schemes often call for players to cheat and cover 2 zones so he can zone blitz another.

This causes the perimeter player on the backside of the play to have to cover 2 zones. When he had more athletic defenders he could get away with it.

Gun should have been brought back as a LB coach. He has done a fine job with Kawika. The D under Gun will continue to lack discipline and technique and will ultimately fail.

Gun's lack of poise and his tendency to lose his temper filters down to the play on the field. Not in a good way. The melt down against the Giants last year and the inability to tackle is very similiar to when Gun loses his cool and melts down.

The only way to defend the bootleg is to have the DE rush straight up the field and not get sucked in to the momemtum of the play. End of story. Be responsible for yourself and don't cover for the player next to you.

redsurfer11
08-13-2006, 10:04 AM
That is right because we get no push up the middle from the DTs the DEs have to crash. Proper technique is to rush straight for about 2 yards then crash. If we do that the QB will get all the time in the world and the bootleg won't even be an issue because we will have no pressure at all.


JMHO


Sorry Jim, I'll have to go against you on this one. The first priority of a Defensive End is to contain the play. If there is a stunt being used, a linebacker or defensive back should cover the area vacated by the DE.

mlyonsd
08-13-2006, 10:10 AM
The problem starts with the coaching. Period.

chief2000
08-13-2006, 10:14 AM
The problem starts with the coaching. Period.

Wrong. Lack of speed.

Logical
08-13-2006, 10:18 AM
Sorry Jim, I'll have to go against you on this one. The first priority of a Defensive End is to contain the play. If there is a stunt being used, a linebacker or defensive back should cover the area vacated by the DE.I may have been doing a bad job of describing it but that is what I meant. But that is not the way we are playing it our DE crash immediately and I believe it is because we have no push up the middle. I think Mojo brings up a really good point as well.

redsurfer11
08-13-2006, 10:38 AM
I may have been doing a bad job of describing it but that is what I meant. But that is not the way we are playing it our DE crash immediately and I believe it is because we have no push up the middle. I think Mojo brings up a really good point as well.


I don't think we'll have a problem with it on opening day. Carson Palmer won't be running anywhere. But, the Bengals will use reverses and other miss-direction plays if they see the DE's crashing. Same thing the Cowboys and Giants did to us last year.

FringeNC
08-13-2006, 10:39 AM
Our D is overly aggressive. Any misdirection or play-fake or cut-back or bootleg is going to give our D fits. If I was an opposing DC, that's all I'd run against Gun.

Rausch
08-13-2006, 10:40 AM
Hicks is SLOW.

Watching this game now he's either got bad legs or he just doesn't give a $3it...

Chieftain58
08-13-2006, 10:48 AM
Because it looks like Hicks is running in a mud puddle when he's hauling arse... :)

Coach
08-13-2006, 10:48 AM
Hicks is SLOW.

Watching this game now he's either got bad legs or he just doesn't give a $3it...

Looking over the game, I would tend to believe that he doesn't give a shit.

Allen was on the other side of the line, and he was closer to the play when the play was over, and Hicks was seen nowhere near the play.

Eric Hicks, friend to bootleggers everywhere.

Seriously, how many f**kin' bootlegs do you need to see before it's drilled through your head?

Al Bundy
08-13-2006, 10:55 AM
I am going to hold judgement until I see how Hali and Carlos Hall react to the bootleg, we already know Hicks doesn't react to it. I was at a Denver-Tampa Bay game a couple of years ago and they tried the bootleg on tampa a few times and Simeon Rice, Greg Spires, and Dewayne White were all over it.

jspchief
08-13-2006, 12:11 PM
Logical's comments just reinforce that he didn't watch the game.

Against a coventional running scheme, having the DTs crash straight up field might work. Against the Texans (Broncos) running scheme, that would set up their running game to destroy us.

The was they run the ball is an incredibly good way to set up the bootleg. The enitre line crashes in the direction of the run, with the RB looking for the first open cutback lane. If The DT goes upfield instead flowing with the blocks, the RB has the outside of the field to work with against the DE.

The reason this is so effective with the bootleg is that every thing the the defenders are taught says to contain the backside by flowing down the line. It's instinct to flow to the ball in case the RB cuts back.

The DE has to recognize the fake, or at the very least be cautious in his backside pursuit. He also has to have the speed to get to the QB when he recognizes it. In this particular case, the play of the DTs has very little bearing.

macdawg
08-13-2006, 12:14 PM
Mojo Rising is correct.

Logical
08-13-2006, 12:42 PM
Logical's comments just reinforce that he didn't watch the game.

Against a coventional running scheme, having the DTs crash straight up field might work. Against the Texans (Broncos) running scheme, that would set up their running game to destroy us.

The was they run the ball is an incredibly good way to set up the bootleg. The enitre line crashes in the direction of the run, with the RB looking for the first open cutback lane. If The DT goes upfield instead flowing with the blocks, the RB has the outside of the field to work with against the DE.

The reason this is so effective with the bootleg is that every thing the the defenders are taught says to contain the backside by flowing down the line. It's instinct to flow to the ball in case the RB cuts back.

The DE has to recognize the fake, or at the very least be cautious in his backside pursuit. He also has to have the speed to get to the QB when he recognizes it. In this particular case, the play of the DTs has very little bearing.

I did watch the game this morning and I saw 4 of the bootlegs on the NFL Network llast nite so your point is a little off base.

PastorMikH
08-13-2006, 12:48 PM
In the second meeting against Denver last year, the bootleg to the left didn't work for them because Allen and the LB behind him stayed home and shut it down. Same was true last night when they ran the bootleg to the left it got a few yards and that was it.

The key is the players have to stay put and quit trying to over-persue.

KCBOSS1
08-13-2006, 12:51 PM
You gotta love football. Combination demolition derby, athletic skill and chess game. I know that Herm and Guntha are good demolition and skill guys, but I'm not convinced about their chess play.

Kubiak, Shannahan & Belichick are chess players.

jspchief
08-13-2006, 12:52 PM
I did watch the game this morning and I saw 4 of the bootlegs on the NFL Network llast nite so your point is a little off base.OK, if you watched it, you would realize that the DTs running straight upfield is not the solution.

The entire O-line is flowing in the opposite direction of the bootleg. To run straight upfield is to completely ignore the O-line's blocking scheme, which means every time the hand off is real rather than fake, the RB is going to kill us.

My point remains. It had nothing (or very little) to do with the DTs.

suds79
08-13-2006, 12:56 PM
Well to say our DTs are not getting the job done is usually an understatement I however believe that even if they (the DTs) were getting a better push that the DEs would still crash down the line and get burned.

Normally I don't care too much about preseason but this one kind of bothered me in that it's not the players but the scheme or what they're (the DEs) taught. They're obviously tought to flow to the ball. Because if they were not, then you'd think sooner or later one of them would start to stay at home. After years & years, they just never learn.

It's dissapointing because sometimes I think it'll never change. They can talk about "something to work on" all they want but the we all know Denver will kill us with the bootleg all day long come week 2.

And as fans, there is nothing we can do about it.

Chan93lx50
08-13-2006, 01:00 PM
Why is everybody so hard on Hicks, it was so obvious he was being held on every play.

Didnt you see Hicks tell Allen that on the sidelines

ROFL

go bowe
08-13-2006, 01:01 PM
In the second meeting against Denver last year, the bootleg to the left didn't work for them because Allen and the LB behind him stayed home and shut it down. Same was true last night when they ran the bootleg to the left it got a few yards and that was it.

The key is the players have to stay put and quit trying to over-persue.one of the scrubs was running straight upfield to stop the bootleg and every time he did, it left a huge hole for the rb...

PastorMikH
08-13-2006, 01:03 PM
one of the scrubs was running straight upfield to stop the bootleg and every time he did, it left a huge hole for the rb...



I saw that problem come up with Ty Law too. He had to hold his WR and let Carr run. The difference is, Law did his part, his DE didn't.


One player can't stop a bootleg, it takes teamwork.

chief2000
08-13-2006, 01:07 PM
Hicks is sloooooooow.

jspchief
08-13-2006, 01:07 PM
one of the scrubs was running straight upfield to stop the bootleg and every time he did, it left a huge hole for the rb...That's where the CB and safety come in. It's always the DEs responsibility to close on the QB in that situation. Then usually the safety (or a LB) has to cover the guy on the short route that opens up.

With the starters in, the DEs were screwing up. With the backups, the DEs did a better job but the Lbs and safeties were never in position.

hypersensitiveZO6
08-13-2006, 01:11 PM
I didn't think Burton did a bad job against the bootleg.

He forced the QB, RB inside where he can be tackled.

I think that's what has to happen.

IMO

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 01:12 PM
The comforting thing was that no receivers were getting open off the play action.

If Denver wants to run Plummer 10 times a game, we'll kill him.

hypersensitiveZO6
08-13-2006, 01:14 PM
The comforting thing was that no receivers were getting open off the play action.


Not what I saw.

jspchief
08-13-2006, 01:15 PM
Not what I saw.Me either.

I think I would ammend that statement to say when our 1st string was in, the receivers were covered well. But after that, there were guys open every time.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 01:16 PM
Ok, well, admittedly I was only talking about the first couple of series.

hypersensitiveZO6
08-13-2006, 01:16 PM
Me either.

I think I would ammend that statement to say when our 1st string was in, the receivers were covered well. But after that, there were guys open every time.


Pretty much.

hypersensitiveZO6
08-13-2006, 01:19 PM
Ok, well, admittedly I was only talking about the first couple of series.


I want to see the secondary vs. a non mobile, drop back in the pocket-type QB.

This game was tough to get a read on the secondary.

The texans offense is very limited.

Logical
08-13-2006, 01:41 PM
OK, if you watched it, you would realize that the DTs running straight upfield is not the solution.

The entire O-line is flowing in the opposite direction of the bootleg. To run straight upfield is to completely ignore the O-line's blocking scheme, which means every time the hand off is real rather than fake, the RB is going to kill us.

My point remains. It had nothing (or very little) to do with the DTs.That is not what I said, I said there inability to get push meant the only way to pressure the QB is to crash the DEs right away making us more vulnerable to the bootleg because they are not playing rush contain like DE should.

Logical
08-13-2006, 01:45 PM
The comforting thing was that no receivers were getting open off the play action.

If Denver wants to run Plummer 10 times a game, we'll kill him.:shake:

Demonpenz
08-13-2006, 01:47 PM
who exactly is going to kill plummer?

stevieray
08-13-2006, 01:49 PM
who exactly is going to kill plummer?

Tamba Hali. Ever see the guy reverse direction off a block?

Logical
08-13-2006, 01:52 PM
Tamba Hali. Ever see the guy reverse direction off a block?

I have never seen him play, when did you get a chance?

CoMoChief
08-13-2006, 01:53 PM
ON both points we agree. Worse yet Herm kept him. :Lin:

As far as I can see it was Herm's only bad coaching decision but I wonder if it was somewhat pushed on him by Carl.


I highly doubt that is the issue. Gun was wanted by Edwards to coach his defense in New York Jets. The Falcons were also in the mix the year we re-hired him as DC. Why wouldnt Herm want him now when he wanted him just a couple seasons ago?

stevieray
08-13-2006, 02:09 PM
I have never seen him play, when did you get a chance?

highlight reels..he'll crash in and engage the block, then sprint back out into the flat when the QB scrambles, and make the play...hence the motor descriptions.

Unlike EH, who seems to be done after contact.

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 02:15 PM
I watched the first 3 series' over and over again just now.

The problem with the bootleg is ERIC HICKS.

Plain and simple, Hicks is the problem.

Clint Mitchell crashed down a couple of times and managed to make it back into the play. Hicks crashes down, somebody gets a hand on him, he goes to the ground like a ****ing dead fish, and the boot is successful every time...

CoMoChief
08-13-2006, 02:19 PM
A simple solution to this is to have the OLB blitz to the QB's weakside. For instance if he's right handed, blitz the ROLB to his blind side and just have the LE and LOLB contain that side of the field in case he does run out of the pocket. We could then bring down a safety in the box more in case its a running play considering I think we have the players at CB to play man to man.

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 02:24 PM
A simple solution to this is to have the OLB blitz to the QB's weakside. For instance if he's right handed, blitz the ROLB to his blind side and just have the LE and LOLB contain that side of the field in case he does run out of the pocket. We could then bring down a safety in the box more in case its a running play considering I think we have the players at CB to play man to man.

The SIMPLE solution to the problem has already been executed.

Replace Eric Hicks.

GoHuge
08-13-2006, 02:24 PM
I watched the game at a buddies house but when I got home I watched the first team D several times. Reed and Edwards did get some push. Alot more than what we've seen in recent past out of our interior guys. Hicks has probably seen the bootleg more than anybody in the NFL and he's still the worst at protecting against it. If you have DVR just go back and look. He just ran straight down the line every single play. I don't think he'll ever figure it out. I'm really glad they ran it over and over again so the Chiefs can try and find an answer for the BL. Hali, OLB, somebody has got to learn to stay home. With that said I know it's preseason and this is what it's for. Find your strengths and work on your weaknesses. Lets hope they can get it fixed. Very frustrating, but still first preseason game boys. Lets wait on Hali and the third game or so before we start looking for bridges.

hypersensitiveZO6
08-13-2006, 02:28 PM
The SIMPLE solution to the problem has already been executed.

Replace Eric Hicks.


In the video on kcchiefs.com, Herm Edward repeatedly said that the DEs playing weren't the right one.

Meaning Hicks. He isn't the starter. Hali is.

jspchief
08-13-2006, 02:37 PM
That is not what I said, I said there inability to get push meant the only way to pressure the QB is to crash the DEs right away making us more vulnerable to the bootleg because they are not playing rush contain like DE should. You seem to think this is all about an ineffective pass rush. That ignores the fact that they are running the boot off of play action. The D-lineman can't just rush the passer, because that would require them to ignore the run blocking scheme, which would result in us getting gashed by the running game.

On these plays, the DTs can't just get after the QB. This isn't a pass play where the QB breaks out under pressure, it's not a scramble, it's a play-action. The linemen have to follow the blocking in case the hand-off is real. By the time they realize it's a boot, the entire line is going the wrong direction, but they have to, to cover the running plays.

The only thing that should be done different is the DE needs to recognize that he's on the backside of the play (so basically taken out of the play if it's a run). Since he's taken out of the running plays, he needs to be less agreessive, keeping in mind that the QB may still be holding the ball.

It has nothing to do with defensive tackles. It's all about the backside DE, LB, Safety, and CB. All of those guys have to have the discipline to not chase the action across the field. The reason it's so difficult is because it's in every players mind that they need to flow to the ball.

This is why I said I didn't think you've seen the game. You seem to not realize that it's a play-action play.

Lonewolf Ed
08-13-2006, 02:46 PM
We're bad against the bootleg due to a lack of discipline and ability to recognize the play...

It's the same strategy that my rottweiler falls for. I have her toy ball in my right hand, and act like I throw it across the room with my left. But, it's a squeaky ball, and when I squeeze it, she instantly looks back at me, so maybe if they put those squeaky things in the footballs, maybe Hicks wouldn't fall for the bootleg every time. Hey, if my rott can make adjustments during the play...

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 02:49 PM
In the video on kcchiefs.com, Herm Edward repeatedly said that the DEs playing weren't the right one.

Meaning Hicks. He isn't the starter. Hali is.

Exactly.

I basically said the solution is to replace Hicks and we've already done that.

ChiefsCountry
08-13-2006, 03:12 PM
My high school coach was a darn good Defensive coach. His #1 rule for DE was simple - you make sure to block down on the tackle/tight end and keep your outside free. Then you just slow play anything that comes your way to make sure your help is coming. You dont have to make the sack which is nice, but that is what the offense wants you to do. They want the end to commit, you keep the end just going down the line with the qb hands up stringing it hopefully to the sideline.

Reerun_KC
08-13-2006, 04:15 PM
The comforting thing was that no receivers were getting open off the play action.

If Denver wants to run Plummer 10 times a game, we'll kill him.

You think?

Geesh Carr ran 4 times this game and was never touched?

Our defense hasnt killed anybody in 8 years! I wouldnt be to worried if I was Jake Plummer....

Mojo Rising
08-13-2006, 05:05 PM
In the video on kcchiefs.com, Herm Edward repeatedly said that the DEs playing weren't the right one.

Meaning Hicks. He isn't the starter. Hali is.

Many of the CP scouting reports from RF say that Hali is VERY susceptible to the play action fake. This problem might not go away. Hali converted from a DT so his experience on the edge is somewhat limited.

This issue is going to come down to Gun. He needs to be more disciplined in his schemes. The main threat is Denver and I would rather have Plummer in the pocket with a little more time than rolling out with no pressure. He will make mistakes.

The issue is that we do not put enough pressure with the front 4.

Notice how NE and Pitt (and others) don't have trouble with the roll-out.

Moooo
08-13-2006, 05:08 PM
Both bite, but at least Hali has the speed to maybe make up for it a bit more.

Moooo

GoHuge
08-13-2006, 05:38 PM
What's really sad is that after what...four five years, two defensive schemes, and coordinators where still talking about the ONE play that continually kicks our ass. Have that be the one play that doesn't beat us. Try defending just the boot, hell nothing else has worked. Maybe Thursday night they can stick Saivii out there in the flat. He could just stand there and take away half the QB's running lane.

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 06:01 PM
What's really sad is that after what...four five years, two defensive schemes, and coordinators where still talking about the ONE play that continually kicks our ass. Have that be the one play that doesn't beat us. Try defending just the boot, hell nothing else has worked. Maybe Thursday night they can stick Saivii out there in the flat. He could just stand there and take away half the QB's running lane.

Five years, 3 schemes, 2 defensive coordinators...

ONE DEFENSIVE END.

Eric Hicks is the problem.

Halfcan
08-13-2006, 06:10 PM
They were getting burned by the boot when Hicks was on the sideline-by 3 different QB's.

beer bacon
08-13-2006, 06:11 PM
They were getting burned by the boot when Hicks was on the sideline-by 3 different QB's.

Not really. Mitchell and Burton were actually playing the bootleg right. The problem was guys like Perkins were giving their receiver on that side of the field 5+ yard cushions.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2006, 06:11 PM
Five years, 3 schemes, 2 defensive coordinators...

ONE DEFENSIVE END.

Eric Hicks is the problem.

I certainly hope you are right. If Hali comes in and they are still booting us to death, I am going to scream.

beer bacon
08-13-2006, 06:15 PM
I certainly hope you are right. If Hali comes in and they are still booting us to death, I am going to scream.

Hali at least has some speed to recover if he gets sucked in. Carr was about twice as fast as Hicks. Allen was beating Hicks over to Carr even though he was coming from the far side of the field.

Logical
08-13-2006, 06:18 PM
You seem to think this is all about an ineffective pass rush. That ignores the fact that they are running the boot off of play action. The D-lineman can't just rush the passer, because that would require them to ignore the run blocking scheme, which would result in us getting gashed by the running game.

On these plays, the DTs can't just get after the QB. This isn't a pass play where the QB breaks out under pressure, it's not a scramble, it's a play-action. The linemen have to follow the blocking in case the hand-off is real. By the time they realize it's a boot, the entire line is going the wrong direction, but they have to, to cover the running plays.

The only thing that should be done different is the DE needs to recognize that he's on the backside of the play (so basically taken out of the play if it's a run). Since he's taken out of the running plays, he needs to be less agreessive, keeping in mind that the QB may still be holding the ball.

It has nothing to do with defensive tackles. It's all about the backside DE, LB, Safety, and CB. All of those guys have to have the discipline to not chase the action across the field. The reason it's so difficult is because it's in every players mind that they need to flow to the ball.

This is why I said I didn't think you've seen the game. You seem to not realize that it's a play-action play.3 out of 4 the QB was well outside the DE before he even made a partial fake, the only one running at that point was him.

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Not really. Mitchell and Burton were actually playing the bootleg right. The problem was guys like Perkins were giving their receiver on that side of the field 5+ yard cushions.

Exactly.

Late in the game, you'll notice that the bootleg WORKED but it was a 15-yard pass instead of QB scramble for a 1st down.

That's because the boot side LB and/or CB wasn't doing their job.

With the 1st stringers, we had Carr running down the sideline because DJ and Law were doing their job but Hicks wasn't...

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 06:22 PM
3 out of 4 the QB was well outside the DE before he even made a partial fake, the only one running at that point was him.

He's not talking about a pump fake, he's talking about a playaction fake.

I take it you're not real familiar with zone blocking schemes.

If you want to watch it in action but don't want to skip Chiefs games watching the Broncos, watch the Iowa Hawkeyes on Saturdays. They're offense uses zone blocking, bootlegs, and tons of playaction.

milkman
08-13-2006, 06:25 PM
I certainly hope you are right. If Hali comes in and they are still booting us to death, I am going to scream like a little girl.

That more like it.

jspchief
08-13-2006, 07:40 PM
3 out of 4 the QB was well outside the DE before he even made a partial fake, the only one running at that point was him.They were all deep hand-off, play-actions. By the time the QB fakes the hand-off, the O-line is already pulling hard. If the D-linemen were to ignore those pulling O-linemen, they'd get burned every time that hand-off was real instead of fake.

That's the part you don't seem to understand. Up until the fake hand-off, there is no way to differentiate that play from a run. So the D-linemen have to play it like a run to that point.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but it appears you don't understand how that play develops and why it works.

htismaqe
08-13-2006, 08:55 PM
They were all deep hand-off, play-actions. By the time the QB fakes the hand-off, the O-line is already pulling hard. If the D-linemen were to ignore those pulling O-linemen, they'd get burned every time that hand-off was real instead of fake.

That's the part you don't seem to understand. Up until the fake hand-off, there is no way to differentiate that play from a run. So the D-linemen have to play it like a run to that point.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but it appears you don't understand how that play develops and why it works.

I'm convinced he doesn't understand it. That type of zone scheme doesn't seem to be particularly common...

redsurfer11
12-03-2007, 01:51 AM
Glad it only took a few years to get this right. Jared Allen played the DE position perfectly today when Rivers tried to roll out. Contain the play!