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Logical
08-15-2006, 01:49 AM
If you say you are taking LJ count yourself as a homer.

If you say Shawn Alexander then count yourself as a baller

If you are in a league with QBs that get 6 then you have other options.

This could all change if Roaf comes back so for now assume Roaf is not coming back.

keg in kc
08-15-2006, 02:01 AM
I think it's just as "homer" to make a point of going against your players despite all else as it is to go with them.

Homer.

Logical
08-15-2006, 02:21 AM
I think it's just as "homer" to make a point of going against your players despite all else as it is to go with them.

Homer.Not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting due to superstition you would not pick one of our players to keep for jinxing them?

If so I have never followed that, I had both LJ and Gonzo last year and was disappointed on missing out on TGreen.

Won the championship in one league and lost the final in the other so I think I play pretty honestly.

Guru
08-15-2006, 02:58 AM
LJ is the number one pick in over 75% of the drafts out there. I don't think that makes you a homer just because we happen to be Chiefs fans.

keg in kc
08-15-2006, 03:07 AM
Not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting due to superstition you would not pick one of our players to keep for jinxing them?No, I mean a doom and gloom homer is a homer nonetheless. We're all homers here.

Logical
08-15-2006, 03:59 AM
LJ is the number one pick in over 75% of the drafts out there. I don't think that makes you a homer just because we happen to be Chiefs fans.Most of those mags, if not all were published before Roaf retired.

Guru
08-15-2006, 04:12 AM
Most of those mags, if not all were published before Roaf retired.


I do understand what you are saying but I still look at him as #1 for the mere fact that he ran all over teams during the time that Roaf was out last year. Roaf has a more direct effect on the passing game. I know that effects the running game too but his numbers earn him the respect of the pick. Roaf or not.

Doesn't matter to me anyway because I don't a pick above 3 in any of my drafts and don't expect him to be there.

Logical
08-15-2006, 04:38 AM
I do understand what you are saying but I still look at him as #1 for the mere fact that he ran all over teams during the time that Roaf was out last year. Roaf has a more direct effect on the passing game. I know that effects the running game too but his numbers earn him the respect of the pick. Roaf or not.

Doesn't matter to me anyway because I don't a pick above 3 in any of my drafts and don't expect him to be there.I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues but we have owners who really study the offensive lines as well as the performance last year. I almost guarantee that S Alexander will be 1, LT 2, Tiki 3, Steven Smith 4, Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning 5, so I figure I can get LJ from 6 to 7 if I end up drafting that low. I would take him as high as 4 if I had the chance though.

Guru
08-15-2006, 04:46 AM
I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues but we have owners who really study the offensive lines as well as the performance last year. I almost guarantee that S Alexander will be 1, LT 2, Tiki 3, Steven Smith 4, Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning 5, so I figure I can get LJ from 6 to 7 if I end up drafting that low. I would take him as high as 4 if I had the chance though.


Well, if your numbers are accurate, I guess I have an outside chance of seeing him in at least one of my leagues.

kc1977
08-15-2006, 05:22 AM
Most of those mags, if not all were published before Roaf retired.

Roaf retiring just solidified LJ as the #1 pick on my draft board.

1) It is not going to affect LJ directly - LJ is more of a north/south downhill type runner. Priest benefited greatly from Roaf and his ability to create a hole where Priest could get to the outside. LJ is a different runner altogether. LJ is much more dependant on the interior line. And he more than proved he is not dependant on Roaf last year in the 3 games totaling 450 yards when Roaf was out.

2) Roaf retiring will mean less blind side protection for Trent. Less blindside protection for Trent will mean a more conservative Trent. A more conservative Trent will mean more running for Larry.

Mile High Mania
08-15-2006, 05:41 AM
If you're looking at ADP data... LJ, Alexander & Tomlinson are a dead heat at the top overall selection.

jspchief
08-15-2006, 05:57 AM
Most of those mags, if not all were published before Roaf retired.CBSSportsline keeps an up to date "average draft position" list and Larry Johnson is still #1. He's got a respectable margin on LT and Alexander.

Skip Towne
08-15-2006, 06:00 AM
LJ was a completely wasted draft pick. We should have taken Boss Bailey.

rad
08-15-2006, 06:15 AM
I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues but we have owners who really study the offensive lines as well as the performance last year. I almost guarantee that S Alexander will be 1, LT 2, Tiki 3, Steven Smith 4, Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning 5, so I figure I can get LJ from 6 to 7 if I end up drafting that low. I would take him as high as 4 if I had the chance though.

Why would anyone take a QB in the first round?

Rounds 1 and 2 are where you want to get your RB's. Every league I've been in, you have to start 2 RB's and 1 QB. Maybe it's just because I'm in a 16 team league, but still.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:22 AM
Why would anyone take a QB in the first round?

Rounds 1 and 2 are where you want to get your RB's. Every league I've been in, you have to start 2 RB's and 1 QB. Maybe it's just because I'm in a 16 team league, but still.Both my leagues are 8 team leagues, only Manning rates up there he will score as high as a top 5 runningback or a top 2 WR.

Dartgod
08-15-2006, 06:33 AM
I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues...
You have a bunch of morons in your league.

jspchief
08-15-2006, 06:35 AM
You have a bunch of morons in your league.No shit.

Brock
08-15-2006, 06:36 AM
I'd clean up in that league. What a bunch of ****ups.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:36 AM
You have a bunch of morons in your league.No we have 8 people that have been playing together since the early 90s in one league and since about 96 in the other. Very into it and very savy, rarely do you get a steal or burnt in the first round short of injuries.

Dartgod
08-15-2006, 06:41 AM
No we have 8 people that have been playing together since the early 90s in one league and since about 96 in the other. Very into it and very savy, rarely do you get a steal or burnt in the first round short of injuries.
You already stated that you had LJ and Tony G. last year and won the league. TG didn't do shit last year, so LJ had to have played a huge part in it.

Roaf retirement or not, anyone who doesn't pick LJ in the top 3 (top 2 really) is a dipshit.

jspchief
08-15-2006, 06:45 AM
No we have 8 people that have been playing together since the early 90s in one league and since about 96 in the other. Very into it and very savy, rarely do you get a steal or burnt in the first round short of injuries.Unless you have some crazy scoring system, putting Marvin Harrison in the top 10 isn't savvy, it's stupid.

You realize that if LJ only produces at 75% of his starter's pace from last year, he'll still get 1800 yards and 20 TDs?

DaKCMan AP
08-15-2006, 08:19 AM
Picking LJ #1 doesn't make you a homer. Just as we are without Roaf, Alexander is without Steve Hutchinson.

Iowanian
08-15-2006, 08:32 AM
Logical must play in a league full of guys like the NFL.com commercial....kickers going quick!

The Savage Midget Carnivours would LOVE for that to be a money league.

Hound333
08-15-2006, 08:55 AM
Honestly I would be happy with either LJ, LT or Alex. I wouldn't mind having the third pick because I consider any of those three worthy of a #1. So at 3 I get a number one pick and a better second round for it.

All three will have ?'s this year. Roaf for LJ, Hutch for Alex and a new QB for LT.

I do agree though that if LJ falls anywhere below 3 then you got strange rules for your league or your people are dumb.

noa
08-15-2006, 09:06 AM
I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues but we have owners who really study the offensive lines as well as the performance last year. I almost guarantee that S Alexander will be 1, LT 2, Tiki 3, Steven Smith 4, Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning 5, so I figure I can get LJ from 6 to 7 if I end up drafting that low. I would take him as high as 4 if I had the chance though.


I don't understand this at all. Who on earth would take Tiki Barber before LJ? Tiki doesn't even play in goal line situations. LJ is going to get plenty of rushing TDs. He might not get 2000 yards, but I guarantee he gets more fantasy points than Tiki. Moreover, if the people in your league "really study the offensive lines" then why doesn't it matter that Shaun Alexander's offensive line got worse over the offseason?

Dartgod
08-15-2006, 09:25 AM
I don't understand this at all. Who on earth would take Tiki Barber before LJ? Tiki doesn't even play in goal line situations. LJ is going to get plenty of rushing TDs. He might not get 2000 yards, but I guarantee he gets more fantasy points than Tiki. Moreover, if the people in your league "really study the offensive lines" then why doesn't it matter that Shaun Alexander's offensive line got worse over the offseason?Because this thread not about who is a better fantasy RB. It's about Logical and his doom and gloom predictions for the Chiefs......again.....and again....and again...

patteeu
08-15-2006, 09:37 AM
Well, if your numbers are accurate, I guess I have an outside chance of seeing him in at least one of my leagues.

If his numbers are accurate, I wish I played in his league. Sounds like he's playing with a bunch of San Diego nonfans to me.

jidar
08-15-2006, 10:20 AM
Sorry, LJ is still #1 if you ask me, Roaf or not.
And I don't think that's homer.

The Red Sea
08-15-2006, 10:21 AM
The money league I'm in has ten teams.
That said the seven I've talked with are All going LJ third/fourth choice.
Many have Shawn Alexander..then somebody else before LJ like Tiki for example.

Sooo for me if I Want LJ I can have him.
Just by chance hes on the Chiefs.
In my opinion even if he doesnt rush for 125 a game this yr he WILL more than likely score one TD a game at the Very least.
Some games 2-3 TDs..toss in one hopefully two games where he goes nuts 150+ yrds,4 TDs.


If I'm 90% Sure I can Get Him first round & it looks as though I can then I've got to go for it.
Even if he ends only top 5 in RBs this season hes for sure points on the board!
In my case it would just be even more important for me to figure out my 2nd & 3rd choice in this case.
As is the case for many people.

Yes I know I'm reaching & Very hopeful LJ IS going to be the player we all saw.

I'm not sure how many of you the last couple of yrs picked Tony G ?
Well for me I'm taking him 2nd!
I love him I really do but all the weeks with little or no points...no points more often.

So I'm not a Homer..I think Tony G is/was #1 TE..maybe 2nd now but I for one am not sure I'll pick him 3 yrs in a row!

=)

ChiefButthurt
08-15-2006, 10:26 AM
I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues but we have owners who really study the offensive lines as well as the performance last year. I almost guarantee that S Alexander will be 1, LT 2, Tiki 3, Steven Smith 4, Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning 5, so I figure I can get LJ from 6 to 7 if I end up drafting that low. I would take him as high as 4 if I had the chance though.

OMG what the hell are you smokin? Do you actually think that a high percentage of FF owners study the information like this group? Hardly, and not even close. You have a good case for Alexander and Tomlinson, but no one else. FTR, if I select first, I'll select Alexander. Never hurt and steady as a rock. Made me alot of money last year.

noa
08-15-2006, 10:40 AM
Anyone who takes Tiki before LJ is crazy. He had a great season last year, but you can't rely on him consisently scoring TDs from outside the red zone. They have Brandon Jacobs for goal line situations. The Chiefs have no one to take away LJ's touchdowns.

ct
08-15-2006, 10:53 AM
Picking LJ #1 doesn't make you a homer. Just as we are without Roaf, Alexander is without Steve Hutchinson.

LJ minus Roaf and TRich, injury risk LT and unproven FB replacements.
Alexander minus Hutchinson, no idea who his replacement is.
LT minus Drew Brees, unproven QB replacement.

They all have question marks. IMO, the Roaf retirement levels these 3 out, prior to that LJ was a CLEAR #1 choice. At this point you can take your pick of the 3 at #1, and be easily justified.

patteeu
08-15-2006, 11:10 AM
LJ minus Roaf and TRich, injury risk LT and unproven FB replacements.
Alexander minus Hutchinson, no idea who his replacement is.
LT minus Drew Brees, unproven QB replacement.

They all have question marks. IMO, the Roaf retirement levels these 3 out, prior to that LJ was a CLEAR #1 choice. At this point you can take your pick of the 3 at #1, and be easily justified.

Logical says that LJ is 4 thru 7 in a knowledgeable league. I guess we can see where that leaves you, Mr. Easily Justified. ;)

MahiMike
08-15-2006, 11:45 AM
2 years ago I had Priest, Tony and Chiefs defense. I passed on a trade to get Trent for McNabb. I came in 2nd that year. Had I made the trade, I'd have won the $1000 and the trophy althewhile cheering on my Chiefs as a homer.

"You're not a homer if your team is the best. You're just a good assessor of talent."

Of course with Al, DV, TRich and Willie gone, all bets are off...Dammit Carl!

SNR
08-15-2006, 12:29 PM
I think Logical still just wants to hate LJ, and wishes that he still had his diapers on and that Priest was still the main guy.

It's ridiculous to think that Roaf will drop LJ to 5 and beyond. Do you realize that even though Roaf likely won't be on the team, the Chiefs WILL replace him at that position? They won't go into the game with just 4 offensive linemen for crying out loud.

I wouldn't take LT #1 even if LJ and SA were both injured for the remainder of the season. That guy had 6 amazing games and the rest were eh, not to mention he dropped a couple of turds during the season. Like... oh say... BOTH games against the Chiefs, and that one where he had less than 20 total yards from scrimmage or something like that. He's inconsistant, and not deserving of the #1 overall pick in fantasy football.

SNR
08-15-2006, 12:31 PM
Anyone who takes Tiki before LJ is crazy. He had a great season last year, but you can't rely on him consisently scoring TDs from outside the red zone. They have Brandon Jacobs for goal line situations. The Chiefs have no one to take away LJ's touchdowns.Tiki scores about as often as Clitoris Portis. Which is as often as a retarded nun.

SNR
08-15-2006, 12:33 PM
STOP THE HATIN, LOGICAL!

http://www.rotary13.org/Images/Speakers/carl_d_peterson.jpg

JBucc
08-15-2006, 12:38 PM
I would take LJ number one and if fact I did in one league, but I wouldn't take any other Chiefs in the early rounds. We all saw how LJ's awesomepissedoffrunyourpunkassoverness took TD's away from the other guys. Although I do expect TG to have a bit of a bounce back year as far as Touchdowns.

SNR
08-15-2006, 12:45 PM
I would take LJ number one and if fact I did in one league, but I wouldn't take any other Chiefs in the early rounds. We all saw how LJ's awesomepissedoffrunyourpunkassoverness took TD's away from the other guys. Although I do expect TG to have a bit of a bounce back year as far as Touchdowns.Green as well. As LJ becomes more of a force on all those checkdowns the Chiefs like to run, Green will be able to feed Kennison, Gonzo, and Parker on red zone possessions rather than just have LJ run it in.

ct
08-15-2006, 12:52 PM
Logical says that LJ is 4 thru 7 in a knowledgeable league. I guess we can see where that leaves you, Mr. Easily Justified. ;)

Yeah, just league champ 3 of last 4 years. But my league must just be really easy right? We don't realize that Marvin is so much more valuable than LJ.

The key is to understand your league scoring. Not sure what it might be, but perhaps there is something to Logical's system that makes sense for his claim. :shrug: Tell ya what though, in my league, RBs who score TDs and get receptions RULE!!! If Alexander was more of a receiver in that offense, he'd be King Shit w/out question!

patteeu
08-15-2006, 01:27 PM
Yeah, just league champ 3 of last 4 years. But my league must just be really easy right? We don't realize that Marvin is so much more valuable than LJ.

The key is to understand your league scoring. Not sure what it might be, but perhaps there is something to Logical's system that makes sense for his claim. :shrug: Tell ya what though, in my league, RBs who score TDs and get receptions RULE!!! If Alexander was more of a receiver in that offense, he'd be King Shit w/out question!

My comment was a dig at Logical, not at you.

ct
08-15-2006, 01:38 PM
My comment was a dig at Logical, not at you.

I know, so was mine. Tis all good.

Logical
08-15-2006, 01:48 PM
I think Logical still just wants to hate LJ, and wishes that he still had his diapers on and that Priest was still the main guy.

It's ridiculous to think that Roaf will drop LJ to 5 and beyond. Do you realize that even though Roaf likely won't be on the team, the Chiefs WILL replace him at that position? They won't go into the game with just 4 offensive linemen for crying out loud.

I wouldn't take LT #1 even if LJ and SA were both injured for the remainder of the season. That guy had 6 amazing games and the rest were eh, not to mention he dropped a couple of turds during the season. Like... oh say... BOTH games against the Chiefs, and that one where he had less than 20 total yards from scrimmage or something like that. He's inconsistant, and not deserving of the #1 overall pick in fantasy football.
This is just silly I won one league and was second in the other, my workhorses were LJ and LT in one league and LJ and Tiki in the other. No way I get LJ in the fifth round this year though. Our scoring system is just such that a RB who catches the ball a lot is a much bigger stud than an LJ will be unless LJ gets 29 TDs In our league Alexander was #1 scorer, Tiki was 2, LT was three, Steve Smith was 4 a Marvin Harrison was 5 and LJ was 6. It is all the points for receptions that really helps in our league.

bogie
08-15-2006, 02:02 PM
I'm too much of a homer. I don't play FF at all.

kc rush
08-15-2006, 04:02 PM
I never draft a raider or a donk for my teams. The thought of rooting for them in any fashion makes me sick.

bogie
08-15-2006, 04:10 PM
I never draft a raider or a donk for my teams. The thought of rooting for them in any fashion makes me sick.

Yeah, that's my delima. I could never root for someone that is playing against the Chiefs. I'm sure the mind-set is people hope their FF player does well, but they still want a Chiefs win. That doesn't work for me, I have too simple of a mind to challenge it that much.

KCChiefsMan
08-15-2006, 04:33 PM
you can say you are a homer if you pick up the Chiefs D or Kennison/Parker or even Green if it's too early. But LJ???? are ya kidding me? According to ESPN's live draft results list, Larry Johnson is averaged as the #1 pick with an avg pick of 1.4. Now I doubt that all of those people are Chiefs homers.

KCChiefsMan
08-15-2006, 04:37 PM
Yeah, that's my delima. I could never root for someone that is playing against the Chiefs. I'm sure the mind-set is people hope their FF player does well, but they still want a Chiefs win. That doesn't work for me, I have too simple of a mind to challenge it that much.

I usually have the mindset that if one of my fantasy players is playing the Chiefs, if their team is gonna score....it just had better be that player!

SNR
08-15-2006, 05:07 PM
This is just silly I won one league and was second in the other, my workhorses were LJ and LT in one league and LJ and Tiki in the other. No way I get LJ in the fifth round this year though. Our scoring system is just such that a RB who catches the ball a lot is a much bigger stud than an LJ will be unless LJ gets 29 TDs In our league Alexander was #1 scorer, Tiki was 2, LT was three, Steve Smith was 4 a Marvin Harrison was 5 and LJ was 6. It is all the points for receptions that really helps in our league.That's all fine and dandy, but what IS just silly is that you'd take him in the same spot this year as last year where he ended up finishing. He didn't start half of his games for crying out loud.

What I DO know is that he finished with more TDs than Tiki and LT in the action that he did see. I can understand taking Alexander before LJ, and maybe even Steve Smith before LJ, if that's the kind of FF you like to play. But this 6/7th overrall is just horseshit.

chagrin
08-15-2006, 05:19 PM
Don't confuse him with facts, SNR, it only furthers his "vision" of himself.

donkhater
08-15-2006, 05:25 PM
Your league has a screwed up scoring system then, Logical.

Do you count receiving yards more or do you get points for receptions? If the answer is no to both those questions, there is NO WAY ANY receiver will outscore LJ this season. 1500 yards/12 TD for a receiver is an amazing season. I would dare say that if LJ got 1500 combined yards and only 12 TDs it would be slightly dissapointing. Not bad, but definately under what most think he could do.

Nzoner
08-15-2006, 05:33 PM
It is all the points for receptions that really helps in our league.

I don't play in PPR league but this discussion made me go to our site and do a little homework from last year.

Had 1 point per reception been awarded in our league the final numbers between LJ and Steve Smith would've been almost 30 points higher for LJ and he didn't even start the entire year.

LJ.....368.3

Smith..339.8

I'm just trying to figure out your leagues scoring that would = Smith ahead of LJ.

Our league also awards 1/10th of a point per yard gained and 6 pts for td.

SNR
08-15-2006, 05:58 PM
I don't play in PPR league but this discussion made me go to our site and do a little homework from last year.

Had 1 point per reception been awarded in our league the final numbers between LJ and Steve Smith would've been almost 30 points higher for LJ and he didn't even start the entire year.

LJ.....368.3

Smith..339.8

I'm just trying to figure out your leagues scoring that would = Smith ahead of LJ.

Our league also awards 1/10th of a point per yard gained and 6 pts for td.That's how most do it. Like I said, there are some who go receiver before RB, because if you have kickass receivers, that's a distinct advantage over others who may not have as good players. Therefore that would warrant taking a Steve Smith before LJ.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:11 PM
That's how most do it. Like I said, there are some who go receiver before RB, because if you have kickass receivers, that's a distinct advantage over others who may not have as good players. Therefore that would warrant taking a Steve Smith before LJ.

Very good, there are only about 3 WRs who score up there with RBs so they are at a premium just like Manning is at QB.

SNR
08-15-2006, 06:14 PM
Very good, there are only about 3 WRs who score up there with RBs so they are at a premium just like Manning is at QB.Last year I would've put Carson Palmer at that level as well. We'll see if he returns to form after this injury.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:18 PM
Your league has a screwed up scoring system then, Logical.

Do you count receiving yards more or do you get points for receptions? If the answer is no to both those questions, there is NO WAY ANY receiver will outscore LJ this season. 1500 yards/12 TD for a receiver is an amazing season. I would dare say that if LJ got 1500 combined yards and only 12 TDs it would be slightly dissapointing. Not bad, but definately under what most think he could do.


Yes receiving yards counts for points as well. This is why Tiki and LT are so incredibly valuable.

In our league assuming 90 receptions your wide receiver would score 262 points. The other thing is the reception numbers come much more consistently across the games. Where as LJ would only score 172 plus probably around 30 receptions for a total fo 202.

LT was killer the season he had 100 receptions and all those yards both rushing and receiving as I recall he scored well over 400 points no one was even close to him.

Valiant
08-15-2006, 06:21 PM
Why would anyone take a QB in the first round?

Rounds 1 and 2 are where you want to get your RB's. Every league I've been in, you have to start 2 RB's and 1 QB. Maybe it's just because I'm in a 16 team league, but still.


Well in most 12 man leagues the 10-12 spot, you can either get a average back or an elite QB or WR... If you pick like all the experts pick you get screwed on spots on your team... I made it to the championship game on 3 out of 4 teams last year(Only won one of them though)... If I am drafting 11th and i have the choice between Peyton or Steve Jackson I am taking Peyton..

Valiant
08-15-2006, 06:24 PM
This is just silly I won one league and was second in the other, my workhorses were LJ and LT in one league and LJ and Tiki in the other. No way I get LJ in the fifth round this year though. Our scoring system is just such that a RB who catches the ball a lot is a much bigger stud than an LJ will be unless LJ gets 29 TDs In our league Alexander was #1 scorer, Tiki was 2, LT was three, Steve Smith was 4 a Marvin Harrison was 5 and LJ was 6. It is all the points for receptions that really helps in our league.


How do you get both of those backs on one team???

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:25 PM
I don't play in PPR league but this discussion made me go to our site and do a little homework from last year.

Had 1 point per reception been awarded in our league the final numbers between LJ and Steve Smith would've been almost 30 points higher for LJ and he didn't even start the entire year.

LJ.....368.3

Smith..339.8

I'm just trying to figure out your leagues scoring that would = Smith ahead of LJ.

Our league also awards 1/10th of a point per yard gained and 6 pts for td. 1 point for 15 yards rushing factors in as well.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:29 PM
Last year I would've put Carson Palmer at that level as well. We'll see if he returns to form after this injury.

Not sure how that would have worked out in our league.

QBs only get 1 point for every 35 yards thrown, 3 points for TDs thrown, 1 point for 15 yards rushing and 6 point for TDs ran. A QB has to throw well in excess of 30 TDs to be close to first round ranking.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:32 PM
I don't play in PPR league but this discussion made me go to our site and do a little homework from last year.

Had 1 point per reception been awarded in our league the final numbers between LJ and Steve Smith would've been almost 30 points higher for LJ and he didn't even start the entire year.

LJ.....368.3

Smith..339.8

I'm just trying to figure out your leagues scoring that would = Smith ahead of LJ.

Our league also awards 1/10th of a point per yard gained and 6 pts for td.We set up our scoring to give WRs a slight advantage if they get a lot of receptions, that is what makes a RB who catches a lot of balls so valuable, also the game to game consistency is far better with WRs and RBs who get a lot of catches. In the past the absolute studs have been LT, Priest, and Marshall Faulk.

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:36 PM
By the way I can handle normal rules and a 12 team league, I have won one and placed third in the other in the only two I have ever played in. While everyone went nuts on RBs I took Peyton Manning and he threw 49 TDs for me. I had shitty RBs but I was killing them week in and week out with Peyton.

Valiant
08-15-2006, 06:36 PM
The top 3 backs no matter what scoring system and their possible outcomes from the Valiant FF book:

Alexander: Loss of Hutch hurts Alexanders TD mark, but with the loss of Joe Jurivicious and Hutch their passing game will take more of a hit.. This forces the ball to Alexander more this year, his ypc will take a hit but he should have the same amount if not a little bit more yards but less TDs.. Alexander also plays in one of the worse divisions agianst week run D's

LT: The loss of Brees will force teams to stack more agianst the run and Gates because they will hope to fluster Rivers. Rivers will dump off the ball to LT more then last year to help Rivers that and Schotty is the Coach and will drive that into his head and play conservative.. LT will take a loss on rushing yards but should gain that back this year with the dumpoffs ala Westbrook... LT also faces the tougher run D's of the AFC..

LJ: The loss of Roaf will not affect LJ as much as it would of Priest and Trent. The bad effect of this though is Herm wants to run the ball alot: A to keep the D off the field, and B control the clock. His ypc should also take a small hit this year because of it but should have a lot more yards. LJ also faces some tougher run D's but is aggressive and young enough to make a fool of them...

speculation.

Unless LJ gets some breaks from the backups the total could be over 400 carries by season end.. That kind of punishment will add up. LJ has the chance to be huge this season if our line and LJ holds up..Any one of these could easily be 1st, but Alexander lines up agianst far inferior D's the LJ or LT...

Logical
08-15-2006, 06:42 PM
Oooooooo I had forgot all about Westbrook I will take him over LJ if he can stay healthy in our league. I am feeling better and better about being able to get LJ late, hell maybe if I draft 8th I can get him then bang take Chad Johnson 9th.

Valiant
08-15-2006, 06:42 PM
We set up our scoring to give WRs a slight advantage if they get a lot of receptions, that is what makes a RB who catches a lot of balls so valuable, also the game to game consistency is far better with WRs and RBs who get a lot of catches. In the past the absolute studs have been LT, Priest, and Marshall Faulk.


Our league (12 man) makes a lot of the players equal with bonuses for over 200 yards/400 passing and such for WR/RB/QB's so every team should get decent scoring out of their stars.. I hate leagues that put so much emphasis on RB scoring because only 3-5 RB's stand out every year and pretty much if you follow the standard draft you will never beat them in the playoffs with those teams... You want to win a standard scoring league, draft your two starters and then six backup RB's who you think will breakout or second tier RB's.. HOrde them until someone needs them and then trade for thier best WR/QB.. Goes in your favor for keeping them from scoring for other teams and when you do trade you get their best player, while not hurting your team and just washing(scoring wise) on theirs..

bogie
08-15-2006, 06:46 PM
I usually have the mindset that if one of my fantasy players is playing the Chiefs, if their team is gonna score....it just had better be that player!


:thumb:

Logical
08-15-2006, 07:01 PM
Our league (12 man) makes a lot of the players equal with bonuses for over 200 yards/400 passing and such for WR/RB/QB's so every team should get decent scoring out of their stars.. I hate leagues that put so much emphasis on RB scoring because only 3-5 RB's stand out every year and pretty much if you follow the standard draft you will never beat them in the playoffs with those teams... You want to win a standard scoring league, draft your two starters and then six backup RB's who you think will breakout or second tier RB's.. HOrde them until someone needs them and then trade for thier best WR/QB.. Goes in your favor for keeping them from scoring for other teams and when you do trade you get their best player, while not hurting your team and just washing(scoring wise) on theirs..Trades are pretty much non-existent in our league always been that way. In the 15 years I think there have been maybe 4 or 5 trades total.

Valiant
08-15-2006, 07:09 PM
Trades are pretty much non-existent in our league always been that way. In the 15 years I think there have been maybe 4 or 5 trades total.


You have 5 backup second tier RB's on your team and see how many trade offers you get.. the only people left to pick up would be backups...

Ketchup&Mustard
08-15-2006, 08:00 PM
Definitely a homer, since I have LJ, Green, and Gonzo in one of my leagues.

Dartgod
08-15-2006, 10:28 PM
Oooooooo I had forgot all about Westbrook I will take him over LJ if he can stay healthy in our league.
This is just f***ing dumb.

Smed1065
08-15-2006, 10:35 PM
I expect to pick him up anywhere from 4 to 7 in my leagues but we have owners who really study the offensive lines as well as the performance last year. I almost guarantee that S Alexander will be 1, LT 2, Tiki 3, Steven Smith 4, Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning 5, so I figure I can get LJ from 6 to 7 if I end up drafting that low. I would take him as high as 4 if I had the chance though.


Has not happened yet to date, now what?

Smed1065
08-15-2006, 10:39 PM
Trades are pretty much non-existent in our league always been that way. In the 15 years I think there have been maybe 4 or 5 trades total.

Show us your 4 trophies.. Sorry I doubted you. 3 is all that will fit so show us 3 and thats ok this time!

Brent

Logical
08-15-2006, 10:44 PM
Show us your 4 trophies.. Sorry I doubted you. 3 is all that will fit so show us 3 and thats ok this time!

BrentI have only won twice in those two leagues and we rotate the trophy putting a little metal tab on it with our names. I have pictures but they are not digital.

Logical
08-15-2006, 10:46 PM
Has not happened yet to date, now what?One league drafts on the Wed nite before the Thursday kickoff game the other drafts the afternoon of the Thursday game.

Logical
08-15-2006, 10:47 PM
This is just f***ing dumb.No his receptions will give him killer numbers in our league if he stays healthy.

Logical
08-15-2006, 10:50 PM
You have 5 backup second tier RB's on your team and see how many trade offers you get.. the only people left to pick up would be backups...

Three years ago I had Priest, LT, Shaun Alexander, Deuce McAllister and Rudi Johnson and no one wanted to make a trade. Remember these are 8 team leagues not a 12 team league.

greg63
08-15-2006, 11:00 PM
Roaf ain't comin back, and I freely admit to my homerism. :D

noa
08-15-2006, 11:01 PM
Three years ago I had Priest, LT, Shaun Alexander, Deuce McAllister and Rudi Johnson and no one wanted to make a trade. Remember these are 8 team leagues not a 12 team league.

You had those guys on the same team in the same year? Do you play in a league with a bunch of 10 year old retarded kids?

Dartgod
08-15-2006, 11:04 PM
No his receptions will give him killer numbers in our league if he stays healthy.
I stand by my statement and will back it up with some stats.

I'm not sure what your exact scoring system is, but from what you've posted so far I'm assuming:

1 point for every 15 yds rushing
6 pts for rushing TD
1 point for 15 yds receiving? (not sure about this one)
6 pts for receiving TD
1 point per reception

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on that:

Westbrook 2004: 812 yds rushing, 3 rushing TDs, 61 receptions, 703 receiving yards, 4 receiving TDs = 204 fantasy points

Westbrook 2005: 617 yds rushing, 3 rushing TDs, 73 receptions, 616 receiving yards, 6 receiving TDs = 209 fantasy points

Johnson 2005: 1750 yds rushing, 20 rushing TDs, 33 receptions, 343 receiving yards, 1 receiving TDs = 298 fantasy points

And Johnson accumulated the majority of his stats in 7 games.

Like I said, your post was just f***ing dumb, plain and simple.

Logical
08-15-2006, 11:09 PM
I stand by my statement and will back it up with some stats.

I'm not sure what your exact scoring system is, but from what you've posted so far I'm assuming:

1 point for every 15 yds rushing
6 pts for rushing TD
1 point for 15 yds receiving? (not sure about this one)
6 pts for receiving TD
1 point per reception

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on that:

Westbrook 2004: 812 yds rushing, 3 rushing TDs, 61 receptions, 703 receiving yards, 4 receiving TDs = 204 fantasy points

Westbrook 2005: 617 yds rushing, 3 rushing TDs, 73 receptions, 616 receiving yards, 6 receiving TDs = 209 fantasy points

Johnson 2005: 1750 yds rushing, 20 rushing TDs, 33 receptions, 343 receiving yards, 1 receiving TDs = 298 fantasy points

And Johnson accumulated the majority of his stats in 7 games.

Like I said, your post was just f***ing dumb, plain and simple.Two things you are ignoring my stay healthy statement something I will be the first to admit he has not been able to do. 2nd I am expect a monster drop off for LJ without Roaf and Welbourn and I have made that the premise of all my statements. I am not suggesting what people should do in their leagues I am telling you what is likely to happen in our league. LJ will go betweeen 5th and 8th I would almost best on it if Roaf does not come back.

Logical
08-15-2006, 11:15 PM
Two things you are ignoring my stay healthy statement something I will be the first to admit he has not been able to do. 2nd I am expect a monster drop off for LJ without Roaf and Welbourn and I have made that the premise of all my statements. I am not suggesting what people should do in their leagues I am telling you what is likely to happen in our league. LJ will go betweeen 5th and 8th I would almost best on it if Roaf does not come back.Here is what I expect from LJ given the current circumstances 1300 rushing, 30 reception 225 receiving and 15 total TD as our offense drops to about 15th in the league.

PS I only expect him to be healthy for 12 games and then he will be partially healthy for two others.

noa
08-15-2006, 11:32 PM
Here is what I expect from LJ given the current circumstances 1300 rushing, 30 reception 225 receiving and 15 total TD as our offense drops to about 15th in the league.

PS I only expect him to be healthy for 12 games and then he will be partially healthy for two others.

How can you possibly think he'll only have 15 TDs all year?! He'll probably have 15 TDs in the first game. Are you seriously going to try to say that LJ is going to have less than a TD per game? That's insane. LJ had 21 TDs last year and Priest had 7, so if he had been the lone starter, he likely would have had 25 + TDs. Why on earth would he drop off by 10 TDs. I understand skepticism, but this takes it to a whole new level. If you think he's going to get injured, why don't you think the same thing about LT, Shaun, or anyone else ranked highly in your bizzare fantasy universe?

Logical
08-15-2006, 11:58 PM
How can you possibly think he'll only have 15 TDs all year?! He'll probably have 15 TDs in the first game. Are you seriously going to try to say that LJ is going to have less than a TD per game? That's insane. LJ had 21 TDs last year and Priest had 7, so if he had been the lone starter, he likely would have had 25 + TDs. Why on earth would he drop off by 10 TDs. I understand skepticism, but this takes it to a whole new level. If you think he's going to get injured, why don't you think the same thing about LT, Shaun, or anyone else ranked highly in your bizzare fantasy universe?

No I said he would only be healthy for 12 games and partially healthy for 2 others that is 14 games so 15 TDs is an average of just over 1 TD per game.

noa
08-16-2006, 12:06 AM
No I said he would only be healthy for 12 games and partially healthy for 2 others that is 14 games so 15 TDs is an average of just over 1 TD per game.

First of all, what reason do you have to think LJ is going to get inured? Every other team in the NFL manages to play without Willie Roaf at LT and that doesn't guarantee their starting RB gets injured. Furthermore, LJ supposedly had a great offseason and is great shape. You can only plan on a player getting injured if they have a history of injury (like Fred Taylor). Otherwise, you have to assume he's going to be healthy for fantasy purposes.
Second of all, even if LJ only plays 12 games healthy and 2 injured, he'll still score more than 15 TDs. That's as good as money in the bank.

Logical
08-16-2006, 12:23 AM
First of all, what reason do you have to think LJ is going to get inured? Every other team in the NFL manages to play without Willie Roaf at LT and that doesn't guarantee their starting RB gets injured. Furthermore, LJ supposedly had a great offseason and is great shape. You can only plan on a player getting injured if they have a history of injury (like Fred Taylor). Otherwise, you have to assume he's going to be healthy for fantasy purposes.
Second of all, even if LJ only plays 12 games healthy and 2 injured, he'll still score more than 15 TDs. That's as good as money in the bank.Simple basically he average almost 31 touches per game and Herm wants to up it by 10 per game, do that and he will be on pace to average a record 500+ touches, no running back will stand up to that in the NFL and stay healthy, just won't happen.

noa
08-16-2006, 12:38 AM
Simple basically he average almost 31 touches per game and Herm wants to up it by 10 per game, do that and he will be on pace to average a record 500+ touches, no running back will stand up to that in the NFL and stay healthy, just won't happen.

The coaches can ease up on their expectations if its starting to wear down LJ. I guarantee you he scores more than 15 TDs this year. Your response has:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214730268/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/70/214730268_caa0ebfc8e_t.jpg" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214727860/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/94/214727860_a8001774fd_t.jpg" /></a><img src='http://dancoulter.com/temp/space.gif' />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214730275/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/79/214730275_b825ce027f_t.jpg" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214727860/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/94/214727860_a8001774fd_t.jpg" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214731493/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/57/214731493_6afbe1ad69_t.jpg" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214730280/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/67/214730280_6326a6d51d_t.jpg" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214731498/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/73/214731498_6f8689786c_t.jpg" /></a><br />Zombie Letters from <a href="http://e-zombie.com/">e-zombie.com</a>

Logical
08-16-2006, 12:51 AM
The coaches can ease up on their expectations if its starting to wear down LJ. I guarantee you he scores more than 15 TDs this year. Your response has:

http://static.flickr.com/70/214730268_caa0ebfc8e_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214730268/)http://static.flickr.com/94/214727860_a8001774fd_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214727860/)http://dancoulter.com/temp/space.gif
http://static.flickr.com/79/214730275_b825ce027f_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214730275/)http://static.flickr.com/94/214727860_a8001774fd_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214727860/)http://static.flickr.com/57/214731493_6afbe1ad69_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214731493/)http://static.flickr.com/67/214730280_6326a6d51d_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214730280/)http://static.flickr.com/73/214731498_6f8689786c_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jawboneradio/214731498/)
Zombie Letters from e-zombie.com (http://e-zombie.com/)

Cute but I am sure I am going to be closer to correct than you. I will be shocked if he gets more than 20 and that is if he stays healthy. I think you forget just how conservative this offense is going to become.

blueballs
08-16-2006, 12:56 AM
tarot card are
evil

Brock
08-16-2006, 06:33 AM
Cute but I am sure I am going to be closer to correct than you. I will be shocked if he gets more than 20 and that is if he stays healthy. I think you forget just how conservative this offense is going to become.

How conservative is it "going to become" Nostradamus? :rolleyes:

rad
08-16-2006, 06:38 AM
Simple basically he average almost 31 touches per game and Herm wants to up it by 10 per game, do that and he will be on pace to average a record 500+ touches, no running back will stand up to that in the NFL and stay healthy, just won't happen.

Herm said we'll run more, he didn't say LJ is going to get more carries. We don't have any other RB's other than LJ? Use your head, man.

Dartgod
08-16-2006, 06:40 AM
I love Jim's reasoning here.

Brian Westbrook, with a history of injuries, is suddenly a more valuable fantasy RB than Larry Johnson, because he will miss some games to injury this year because we lost part of our starting offensive line and Herm said we are going to run the ball 10 more times a game (nevermind that he NEVER said LJ was going to get all those carries).

Jim, I know this is just your opinion and you are entitled to have one, but in this case your opinion is dumb.

One more thing. Jim, can you remove the quoted images that spell "NO LOGIC" from your previous post? In the original post I can see the images, but in your quotes it just shows as a series of URLs that are causing some major horizontal scrolling issues.