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View Full Version : Big Al Gorleone and his demorats going down for the count today!!!


BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 08:45 AM
Let us never forget the honorable, ethical leaders this administration has blessed us with. Noble people such as James Carville, Janet Reno, David Boise, Warren Christopher, Bill Daley, Dianne Feinstein, Joe Lockhart and Madeline Halfbright. They have protected us from all of the terrorists invading our lives with the Anti-Terrorist Bill and Carnivore. They have protected us from ourselves with Gun Legislation. They have even protected us from our own money with the biggest tax increase ever. They have indeed been pillars of strength in protecting our cherished constitutional rights as citizens of this great country. They have served us honorably by providing us with Kosovo, Chinagate, Whitewater, Monicagate, Juanita Broaddrick and the Buddhist Temple campaign contributions. They went beyond the call of duty though with the cover-ups. Goreleones missing e-mails, TWA flight 800, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Vince Foster and the endless body count. Ah yes, they even turned the White House red. And who could ever forget “ I never had relations with that woman”? To what do we deserve such noble statesmen?

BIG DADDY
WILL NEVER FORGET
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Masonic
12-08-2000, 11:21 AM
Tell us how you really feel, Big Daddy!!!

Mark M
12-08-2000, 11:56 AM
BD--
Thought not a Republican, I think you hve some good points (and all true).

As an independent, I'm wondering: What did the Democrats have to do with TWA 800? Not ripping you, just feel as though I missed something.

MM
~~Left out of the loop?

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 12:52 PM
MM,
I was aiming more at this administration than at demorats in general.This administration has allowed the FBI and CIA to cover-up many things regarding the fate of this flight. Then when an independent investigator began to reveal what happened our wonderful justice department went after him and his wife. There is even an eyewitness alliance now who is continueing to try and expose the cover-up. http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/8/26/233217 There are a number of good articles regarding this subject also at http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1998/12/19/90358

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 01:27 PM
One more to go BABY. Yahoooooo!!!

DaWolf
12-08-2000, 01:31 PM
I agree with this ruling. It is consistent with the Fla Supreme court's earlier ruling. I do find it ironic that Gore, by winning the initial Supreme Courd decision, not only was given a deadline that neither county could meet for the recounts, but sealed the fate of this case as well...

DaWolf
12-08-2000, 02:17 PM
Another ironic thing I learned from nightline last night was that Barry Richard, Bush's lead attorney, is actually a Miami based democrat...

Clint in Wichita
12-08-2000, 02:47 PM
Assuming Dubya becomes President, what will be the first noticeable improvement to this country caused SOLELY by the new Pres.?

KCTitus
12-08-2000, 02:48 PM
Recision of Clinton's Executive Orders would be a great start.

Gaz
12-08-2000, 02:49 PM
Clint-

No more Gore.

xoxo~
gaz
enough improvement for now.<BR>

KCTitus
12-08-2000, 02:51 PM
I have an honest question about Gore. Does anyone know if he hurt his back or neck in an accident or something?

I noticed in his last press conference in front of the White House the fact that the doesnt turn his head independently of his shoulders and torso.

I know the joke on him is he's real stiff, but I never saw it that pronounced.

Anyone know?<P>

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 02:52 PM
The stock market loves these announcements,it's gone up already.

Monday will be a good day on Wall street...

(assuming Gore finally concedes)<BR>

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 02:55 PM
Was that the press conference that he was saying thousands of democratic absentee ballot applications were being thrown in the trash in Seminole county? (totally untrue btw)<P>

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 02:55 PM
Clint,

Let's start with the removal of the toxic waste currently residing in the White House.

BIG DADDY
Doesn't have such a problem with the good demorats as much as the backing of the bad ones at any cost.

KCTitus
12-08-2000, 02:57 PM
I believe so, Joe. He was wearing a dark suit with a shiny blue tie and as he looked from right to left he moved his entire body so that he was perpendicular to the microphone/cameras to speak to people on the extreme left or right.

I know he's been labeled a stiff, but I had never seen it that bad and didnt want to make fun of it if he'd actually had something wrong (kind of like Gun's yellow glasses).

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 03:03 PM
UN FRIKKING BELEIVABLE!!!

RE-COUNT!

mlyonsd
12-08-2000, 03:03 PM
Not so fast, Gore gets a partial recount.

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 03:06 PM
The market is already falling after rising substantially earlier...

KCTitus
12-08-2000, 03:08 PM
One key note, the State SC ordered ALL undervotes from ALL couties. Im sure some of the predominantly republican counties will begin counting as well.

This thing will never end.

In the end the U.S. loses. I hope Gore is proud of himself.

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 03:09 PM
How can they count 200,000 undervotes by tuesday?

This court is ridiculous!!

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 03:28 PM
Total Bullsh*t,

This will never fly. Do not forget what these rats are putting this country through. The only thing that they care about is winning and I still bet that they do not.

BIG DADDY
Still in disbelief<BR>

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 03:34 PM
B.D,

I agree completely..The Florida supreme court has really made this an absolute mess!
There is no legal right for them to do what they did. the U.S. supreme court IMO will totally reverse this decision along with a strong reprimand.

Also the legislature will adopt a bill where the state supreme court judges will have to be elected instead of appointed, all of these judges will be voted out of their chair.

ROYC75
12-08-2000, 03:36 PM
NOTHING SHOCKS ME ANYMORE!!!!

THIS IS WRONG!!!!!! I'M MAD !!!! http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/mad.gif

Clint in Wichita
12-08-2000, 03:36 PM
Gore should've already conceded. Let Dubya make a fool out of himself for 4 years.

Maybe he can "unite the country" through laughter.

WisChief
12-08-2000, 03:40 PM
Clint, how do you feel about this? This simply isn't right - no matter how you feel about GW and the Repubs

Clint in Wichita
12-08-2000, 03:43 PM
I think the whole thing is a disgrace. Bush was the first to drag this into the courts, & Gore is continuing what Bush started.

IMO either Florida (the entire state) should've gone back to the polls or been left out of the electoral college altogether.

Congress should pass a bill officially declaring Florida the "Dumbest State in the Country".

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 03:43 PM
Clint,
Can you put your bias in your pocket long enough to give a straight opinion??

BIG DADDY
Is not sure your BIG enough.

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 03:48 PM
Clint,
Like I said before. My problem is not with the demorats in general. It is demorats like you that will stick up for even the very most corrupt ones at any cost.


BIG DADDY
You don't want to piss off the republicans.

WisChief
12-08-2000, 03:50 PM
I guess I've slept since Bush took this to court first. Refresh my memory please about him being first.

Clint in Wichita
12-08-2000, 03:53 PM
I'm not sticking up for Gore at all.

IMO any time a vote is that close, there should be a reVOTE, rather than a reCOUNT. It would be expensive, but I'll bet it would be cheaper than all those lawyers.

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 04:00 PM
Clint,
PLEASE, that would be the most corrupt election of all time. Everyone would know that they were controlling who would be the next president of the US. Hell, Big Al was already handing out cigarettes for votes. Imagine with how corrupt this administration is how much bribery would be going on then.

BIG DADDY
Doesn't think that is a good idea.

Clint in Wichita
12-08-2000, 04:01 PM
It would happen on both sides, I'm sure.

TheFly
12-08-2000, 04:02 PM
The US Supreme Court is going to overturn this one so fast...<BR>

Mi_chief_fan
12-08-2000, 04:05 PM
Didn't the Supreme Court just send it BACK to Florida?

TheFly
12-08-2000, 04:08 PM
No, the US Supreme court "vacated" the Florida Supreme Court's decision and asked for a clarification of Florida's reasoning.

The Florida court chose not to answer the US Supreme Court... Rather, they chose to ignore it... which is an answer in itself...

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 04:10 PM
These demorats are like a bad case of herpes. Every time you think that you are finally rid of them there back. They never really go away, they just continue to infect and spread like a viral disease does until they have infected everyone.

BIG DADDY
Feels that it is inevitable. They will eventually turn us into a completely socialistic society.

Mi_chief_fan
12-08-2000, 04:12 PM
What's your experience with herpes, BD? http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

TheFly
12-08-2000, 04:20 PM
Bob Dole says Elvis has never won a playoff game...

Mi_chief_fan
12-08-2000, 04:23 PM
LOL @ fly.<BR>

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 04:23 PM
Fly,
What worries me the most is that the demorats are willing to do anything in order to win. The Repulicans seemed more concerned about being good statesmen. It is time that everyone who is not a demorat smite them 10X. Anything short of that would be concedeing to these bastards.

BIG DADDY
IS encouraging going out and rattling the cages of all demorats.

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 04:24 PM
MI,
I knew someone was going to say that.

Mi_chief_fan
12-08-2000, 04:27 PM
Well, BD, wasn't sure if you were taking a shot at me or not. Just so you know, I wasn't taking one at you.

All in good fun..............

DaWolf
12-08-2000, 04:28 PM
Like other great men have said before me, all I know is that Elvis Grbac has never won a playoff game. Or so I hear...

Clint in Wichita
12-08-2000, 04:29 PM
"What worries me the most is that the demorats are willing to do anything in order to win. The Repulicans seemed more concerned about being good statesmen."

WHAT?! Regardless of your political stance, you can be far more objective than that. That quote was just silly, and I don't believe that you honestly believe your own post.

The Republicans seemed more concerned about being good statemen. JEEEESUS!!

DiscoJones
12-08-2000, 04:33 PM
The democrats will win this one simply because Elvis has never won a playoff game in real life, or on the PS, N64, DC, or PS2.

And I get the feeling that if Gore concedes, he will be doing so because Elvis has never won a playoff game (I know I wouldn't want to be Pres. until Elvis at least won a wild card game).

The world is starting to make much more sense to me now.

"Daddy, why is the sky blue?"
"That's easy, honey, it's because Elvis has never won a playoff game."

I bet KU would have done better last night if Elvis would have won a playoff game somewhere along the line....I just KNOW IT!

Mi_chief_fan
12-08-2000, 04:36 PM
How would Elvis help KU? He went to Michigan!

DiscoJones
12-08-2000, 04:45 PM
If Elvis wins a playoff game:

There will be world peace.
The U.S. will get a President.
The hole in the O-zone will close.
There will be enough food for every man, woman, child, and cat on the face of the Earth and none will go hungry again.
Oil prices will drop by over 50%.
The Dow will top 20,000.
Time travel will be possible.
Nobody will ever have to work another day in their lives.
KU will win the National College Basketball Championship and Paul Pierce will return for his senior year.
Santa will be out of a job - Elvis can do it.
I know there's more around here somewhere...<BR>

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 04:46 PM
Clint,
This administration is horribly corrupt. Why do you keep justifying their pathetic corruption by saying that your sure that the Republicans would do it to? Does this make you feel better about defending them?

BIG DADDY
Does enjoy your genuine answers at times and debating with you when it's not an at all costs stance you take.

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 04:48 PM
Disco,
Will have a president and it won't be Big Al Goreleone?.

BIG DADDY
Is just wondering

DiscoJones
12-08-2000, 04:57 PM
Oh yeah, if Elvis ever wins a playoff game (with a political twist):

Harmless Chads everywhere will be saved from the brutal extermination known as "hanging".
Chad pregnancies will be decreased by over 75%.
The only people being "disenfranchised" will be people who tried to order breakfast at Mickey-D's after 10:30.
The elusive "butterfly ballot" (ballotous butterflyous) will be re-introduced to it's natural home in the Galapagos.
Diana Ross will be named head of the "Supreme" court.
Dick Cheney will go a week without a heart attack.
Al Gore will go a week without inventing something.
"Dubya" will get serious for once.
The Star BB will go silent (you know who and you know why).

Elvis IS da man!

DiscoJones
12-08-2000, 05:02 PM
BD - I don't know for sure. All I know is that if Elvis wins a playoff game, things everywhere will start to fall into place. I cannot say who will win or who won't. I can say that we will get a President...that is, if Elvis ever wins a playoff game.

Elvis for President (after he wins a playoff game)!!!

Joe Seahawk
12-08-2000, 05:12 PM
Check out page 41 of the opinion...
At least one justice was sensible...

http://www.flcourts.org/

BIG_DADDY
12-08-2000, 05:32 PM
Joe,
I agree. James Baker just came on and went over what chief justice Charles Wells said. I wish the Republicans would aggressively pursue destroying the lives of these defiant justices the way the demorats have gone after their enemies.

BIG DADDY
There is no point negotiating with scoundrals.

Frazod
12-08-2000, 05:44 PM
And I thought we'd be waking up from this f#cking nightmare today. Hopefully, between the Florida legislature and the U.S. Supreme Court, someone will finally and mercilessly stomp out Sore Loserman's latest outrageous attempt to steal this country.

My level of digust for this maggots continues to grow unchecked.

I do like the Gorelione handle, though. :D

------------------
Frazod

Have you had your Daley fix?

Ugly Duck
12-08-2000, 11:07 PM
I dunno, DADDY. It looks like Bushlosvic's worst nightmare is become real - Florida's votes will be counted starting 8:00AM Saturday. Thank goodness the Florida legislature had in place statutes that call for handcounts in close elections. When the deadline and the right to handcount conflicted, the Florida Supreme Court held the will of the people paramount. And the Court sez use the standands for handcounting that the legislature put in place before the election. All the court decisions of the day held the will of the voter to be paramount. Bushlosovic liked that when the rescued votes favored him, but he hates it when they may go the other way. Now the Reublican legislature wants to backtrack on its own statutes and standards after the fact, in spite of their laments about "changing the rules" after the election. No longer can they claim the "selected Dem counties" line. Now ALL the counties will be counted as Al had wished. Bushlosovic sez he trusts the people, but that democracy thing really bugs him.

DaWolf
12-08-2000, 11:24 PM
According to CNN, "In counties that favored Bush, there were 25,699 undervotes. In counties that voted for Gore, there were 17,733 undervotes."

So who knows, Bush might still win this thing outright...

Logical
12-08-2000, 11:55 PM
I don't think the Foul Four of the Fla Supreme court were very smart. Their opinion clearly thumbs their nose at the US Supreme Court, so much so that the other three justices write dissenting opinions so clear as to make the case for the Bush legal teams appeal to the US Supreme Ct and provides clear definition for the injunction to stop the counting tommorow in the Atlanta Appeals court. On top of this in the foul fours disertation they basically tell the Supreme Ct to go to he1l, the count is what we say it is and you cannot vacate our decision. Again the dissenting 3 (including the Fla Chief Justice point this error out in their dissenting opinion. I suspect that the Fla. Supreme Court is going to take a severe beating from the US Supreme Court. I doubt if even Justice Ginsberg will take kindly to this decision. My guess is the injunction is approved in the morning and by Tuesday the US Supreme Court has overturned this decision and thrashed the Florida Foul Four so thoroughly that they will be hurting for years to come. It is not very wise to tell the Supreme Court of the US to go to He1l it is none of their business, which is what this ruling basically did.

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 12:28 AM
Hey Logical....I thought the US Supreme Court's admonished the Florida court to base its opinions on Florida statutes and not the constitution. So the majority opinion was very careful to follow the Florida statutes for election contest. It looks like they didn't thumb their noses at the US Court, but rather took their admonishment to heart.

Logical
12-09-2000, 12:42 AM
UD,

Read the dissenting opinions starting on page 41 and going all the way through page 68 and the first couple of lines on page 69. The three justices (includes the Chief Justice) clearly define all the ways the foul four screwed up, how they violated Florida Statuatory Law, how they overturned their own decision in the first Florida ruling by extending their own deadline, how they are clearly now establish law after the fact. Both dissents are very, very, clear. This will be an open and shut case before the US Supreme Court, and it was written as a dissent by the three justices of the Florida Supreme Court, if we Republicans think the Fla Supreme Court screw@d up the first time, this one is the biggest Royal Cluster Fvck of all time. Their have been tons of legal analysts on the radio and television networks saying that this decision has no chance of holding up in the US Supreme Court, including a lawyer for the Gore team that went on a Radio network with his voice disguised. He said the Gore legal team knows it cannot hold this up and win in the US Supreme Court and are just hoping to delay the decision long enough to get enough votes counted to hurt Bush more, so that Gore can regain some of his lost respect and have a chance in 2004.

------------------
Jim Reynolds
If I were a Democrat I would surely be a sore loser!

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-09-2000).]

Joe Seahawk
12-09-2000, 01:02 AM
www.flcourts.org (http://www.flcourts.org)


check out page 41...Chief Justice Well's scathing opine of his peers...<P>

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 09:12 AM
Logical - Sure, I read the dissenting opinion. But the majority are equally convinced that their directives are within the law. Just like the Court, citizens have differing opinions. I still expect Bushlosovic to take the Whitehouse, and I also expect that you and I will have differing opinions about the process that crowned him.

KCWolfman
12-09-2000, 09:23 AM
Duck - Respectfully, you are as wrong as you can be on this one....

The Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court himself stated that there is no current law guiding the 4-3 ruling but rather "This essential principle, that the outcome of elections be determined by the will of the voters, forms the foundation of the election code enacted by the Florida Legislature and has been consistently applied by this Court in resolving elections disputes. We are dealing with the essence of the structure of our democratic society; with the interrelationship, within that framework, BETWEEN the United States Constitution and the statutory scheme established pursuant to that authority by the Florida Legislature."

Not "OF the United States Constitution" nor "Nor OF the Florida Statutes" But rather "BETWEEN" them.

A Judicial Body does not make new laws, it is supposed to INTERPRET the law AS IT IS - whether the Body likes the law or not.

The Supreme Court of the United States of America MUST intervene and show the 4 democratic nominated Justices that they are simply pulling a party line and not doing the job they were hired to do.

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 09:41 AM
Yo, Wolf. Sure makes for dramatic reading, but the majority disagrees with that opinion.

KCWolfman
12-09-2000, 09:45 AM
Duck - You mean the democratic installed majority of Justices, not the majority.

If the majority agreed, then they wouldnt have been reprimanded by the US Supreme Court in the first place... as they will again.

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 10:25 AM
Sorry, Wolf - that's what I meant.

I thought the US Court admonished, not reprimanded, the Florida Court. They warned Florida to base their judgements on Florida statutes, and not the Constitution. They didn't say the Florida dudes did wrong, but asked for clarification.

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 10:46 AM
By the way, the US Supreme Court has refused to stop the handcount. Another defeat for Bushlosovic in his campaign to keep Floridian votes from being counted.

Joe Seahawk
12-09-2000, 11:21 AM
Duck....Wrong

typical Raider fan.. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Logical
12-09-2000, 11:29 AM
UD,

I am pretty sure you have it wrong in post 65. I have been listening to the radio and I think you got it wrong. My understanding is that Bush appealed to the Fla Supreme Ct, the US Supreme Ct, and the Federal Appeals Ct in Atlanta. The radio report I heard said that only the Florida Supreme Court has made a decision and they turned Bush down. If you have a website that indicates it is the US Supreme Court I would like it, so I can read about it. I have went to CBS, CNN, Fox, NBC, and Voter.com and none of them are reporting that the US Supreme Court has turned Bush down.

------------------
Jim Reynolds
If I were a Democrat I would surely be a sore loser!

Joe Seahawk
12-09-2000, 11:36 AM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20001208/imdf63220.jpg

What a Dork!


Sorry, couldn't resist.

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 12:16 PM
Hey Logical and fellow Seahawk fan - my bad. I heard there was a 4-3 decision to refuse a Bushlosovic request for a stay, and I thought they were talking about the USSC. Apparently, the Bushoslavians have fired off a barrage of suits in several courts, and the refusal was from one of those.

KCWolfman
12-09-2000, 12:28 PM
Duck - You are correct, The GoreBachov Judges are to base their arguments on Florida Law. Which if you read their response below, was not done.

Clarification or reprimand, it was a slap in the face of the Supreme Court of Florida. What they were told is "We cannot find any law which you base your decision, isnt that to be your basic job? Please point out the law in your decision." Pretty humiliating for someone who is to be the best of the best of Florida.

And the 4 democractic nominated judges responded "well, we didnt really use law, but something in between Florida law and United States law".

They will have their decision wiped away once again.

Logical
12-09-2000, 01:06 PM
Hey Duck I am going to tease you a bit.

The Florida Supreme Court has 7 members, the US Supreme Court has 9. Have you been counting votes for Gore, the inflation of the count would be a natural progression. (i.e., that 4+3=9)

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-09-2000).]

Chief Henry
12-09-2000, 01:24 PM
That picture posted of alGore looks like he just to a hit off a joint!!! He wants to get the full affect of that hit!!!

And Now Gore attorney Boise says to UPI that they would press to JUST USE MIAMI-DADE votes in this re-re-re-recount, instead of
using the whole states re-re-re-recount.

Talk about a fishing expedition. C'mon
US Supreme Court. Follow the rule of law.

------------------
Chiefs Rock

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 01:37 PM
Now the US Circuit Court of Appeals has joined the Fla Supreme Court in denying the Bushlosovic request to stop the handcounts. The Bushoslavians are very unhappy. But the Court did say that Cruella cannot certify them until the US Supreme Court gives its blessings.

TheFly
12-09-2000, 01:50 PM
Hurray for the US Constitution! Hurray for the US Supreme Court!<BR>

Brock
12-09-2000, 01:53 PM
Anybody remember "Schoolhouse Rock"?

I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill.....

KCWolfman
12-09-2000, 01:56 PM
DUCK - LMAO!!!! I believe it is the SUpreme COurt who has a final say so on the matter - the self same Supreme Court that states GoreBachov's recount must stop as the true LEGALITY of the recount must be assessed.

I believe earlier you stated that the words I printed were 'pretty' but didnt mean squat. I ask that you go back and read them again - The FINAL stop on this legal ride agrees with my interpretation of the matter.

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 02:04 PM
The Wolf calls it. A split decision has stopped the count. Thats it. Game over. Fat Lady sings. The Bushoslavians have managed to put Bushlosovic on the throne. All hail the Rule of Law, even when we don't agree with the split decisions.

TheFly
12-09-2000, 02:06 PM
Upholding the Constitution is NOT a Pavlovian exercise, UD... Cut the crap...<BR>

KCWolfman
12-09-2000, 02:16 PM
Duck is right, how dare they actually use LAW in the Supreme Court instead of their feelings?

KCWolfman
12-09-2000, 02:20 PM
Duck - Sometimes you spin better than Carville... "split decision"? Funny, I never saw those words out of you when you mentioned the Florida Supreme Court decision... Of course, I am sure that you merely overlooked the opportunity to be unbiased, right?

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 02:38 PM
Don't hurt me, Wolfman. My team just lost the SuperBowl. My only consolation is that it was not a unamimous vote.

Joe Seahawk
12-09-2000, 02:43 PM
Hey I just thought of something.....What if the Florida 7 reverse the Seminole and Martin county decisions...YIKES!!

That freakin court makes me nervous!

Logical
12-09-2000, 02:47 PM
Help,

I am at work and my computers sound card died, fill me in what did the US Supreme court rule. Was it just a stay or was it the actual ruling?

------------------
Jim Reynolds
If I were a Democrat I would surely be a sore loser!

Joe Seahawk
12-09-2000, 02:49 PM
Jim, It was a stay...Oral arguments on monday morning..

5-4 decision to stay.

Logical
12-09-2000, 02:52 PM
Thanks Joe,

Not as decisive as I hoped, but stopping the count is not as easy as realizing the Florida court attempted to Bltch Slap you and handing them their proper come uppance after hearing the oral arguments.

------------------
Jim Reynolds
If I were a Democrat I would surely be a sore loser!

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-09-2000).]

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 02:55 PM
Yeah, it was just a stay. But read between the lines. Oral arguments on Monday means the votes can't be counted in time to avert a crises. I believe the USSC is making sure that only one slate of electors gets to Washington. Sacrifice the votes of Floridians and the campaign of Gore for the good of the country. This is the death knell. Case closed.

Logical
12-09-2000, 03:00 PM
Hey UD,

I seem to recall that you live in Ca. If that is correct have you heard anything on the results of the CA 1.3 million vote absentee/mail-in count that came in after the 7th of November. I got on the State website Thursday and it showed only 45K left to count, but I could not get in on Friday or today. If the 1.3 million come out as strongly Republican as they have on average in the last four Presidential elections Bush will attain another 300 to 350k over Gore and take back the popular vote. I would really love that, as much as you would surely hate it. The site on Thursday again repeated the no partial results would be announced. That the results for the 1.3 million would be announced simultaneously. Seems pretty smart when you consider the disaster going on in Florida. I suspect they are waiting until the whole thing down there clears up, so they avoid Gores legal team rushing into California to challenge the results.

What have you heard and what are your thoughts on this?

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-09-2000).]

Ugly Duck
12-09-2000, 03:10 PM
I dunno whats up with that. Haven't heard much about it.

TheFly
12-09-2000, 05:12 PM
According to the Florida Supreme Court Elvis has never won a playoff game, but they are considering the issue for the sake of counting all the frustrated Chiefs fans who have waited so long for a win...

Logical
12-09-2000, 05:30 PM
Fly, well done. LOL http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

BIG_DADDY
12-09-2000, 08:11 PM
Joe,
Thanx for the picture. I just took out my machine gun software and blew it away.

BIG DADDY
Feeling better now

Masonic
12-11-2000, 10:50 AM
Will today be the day? I sure hope so.

bkkcoh
12-11-2000, 11:13 AM
I hear Gore isn't satisfied with the last playoff game and is still holding out for a re-count. He may have won that play-off game.


:p




------------------
Brian K.

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair.
[i]George Burns </I>

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 11:57 AM
This thing is a mess. Ruth Ginsburg is a freaking beeoch. Is it even possibe for someone to be more bias? This better end today.

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 12:37 PM
I really don't like the way this is sounding. The justices beat the crap out of Bush's attorney and Klock as well. Ginsburg is profiling so it is obvious how she is going to vote. That buck tooth beeoch is a woman with an agenda if I have ever seen one. They are being much easier on Boies. The market hasn't freaked yet so maybe I am just over reacting. Anybody else listening to this? Opinions?

KCTitus
12-11-2000, 12:41 PM
Im listening.

TheFly
12-11-2000, 12:42 PM
The justices are tearing Boies apart now. They don't hold back at all.

O'Connor remarked that it appeared the FSC ignored their earlier USSC decision and she was concerned with that!<BR>

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 12:47 PM
Fly,
Yes they are. It is about time. Scalia seems pretty sharp.

TheFly
12-11-2000, 12:51 PM
I like OConnor. She doesn't like being beech-slapped by the FSC. She's gonna get 'em!!!! http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/mad.gif

KCTitus
12-11-2000, 01:19 PM
Utterly disappointed...

It was obvious from the questions as to how each Justice was leaning.

Let's forget about the fact that this is just more Judicial Activisim on top of the Florida Supreme Court's re-writing of existing law.

It's a pretty sad day for America.

WisChief
12-11-2000, 01:23 PM
Titus, what happened? NOthing on msnbc or cnn

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 01:26 PM
KCT,
It is going to be 5-4 for Bush. Ginsburg is a cu*t. The juditial system has always been like this KCT, were you actually expecting something different?

BIG DADDY
Wants to see Big Al Gorleone cry about the fact that he was cheated tonight. I saved a special bottle of scotch for the occasion.

[This message has been edited by BIG_DADDY (edited 12-11-2000).]

KCTitus
12-11-2000, 01:33 PM
Wis: they just finished playing the audio of the arguments in the U.S. Supreme Court.

This never should have gotten this far. The courts should have stayed out of it after it was found there was NO Fraud and that the Voting Machines did NOT malfunction.

Judicial Activism is going to ruin the separation of powers. I find it ironic that the fight for the presidency is no more than a fight to appoint justices of the Supreme Court. As Madison feared, the SC has all the power.

BD: I wouldnt say that and quite frankly, I dont care who wins at this point. I was expecting to hear the justices ask questions about points of law, not hypothetical situations. It was obvious that those sympathetic to Gore's case were more worried about HOW to count the votes rather than IF they should be counted.

No discussion about the burden of proof to uphold a contest of an election, no discussion on the ability of the FL SC to add to their already vacated ruling, although O'Conner did touch on it.

Sad day.

TheFly
12-11-2000, 01:34 PM
I don't know if it's going to be a 5-4 decision or not. The Justices ripped into everyone. No one was spared.

I'm expecting a 6-3 vote one way or the other...<BR>

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 01:45 PM
KCT,
There was certainly alot of profiling of the positions. My guess is that they already had made up their minds before they ever entered the coutroom. This ended up being more of a symbolic gesture than an actual hearing. I still feel that the Florida Supreme Court drew the line in the sand with their very bias ruling and then forced the issue down party lines. It has got to be hard to try to remain unbias with beeoches like Ginburg in there as well. When someone is so bias down part lines like she was it makes it hard to remain objective. I do think that O'conner was trying to make the right decision though and she should end up being the tie breaker.

BIG DADDY
Is going to record Whores concession speech and re-play it everytime he gets depressed. :)

Archie F. Swin
12-11-2000, 01:50 PM
FYI

Here's the starting lineup

Chief Justice W.H. Rehnquist
Born: October 1, 1924 (Milwaukee)
Appointed as Justice: by President Nixon (1972)
Appointed Chief Justice: by President Reagan (1986)

Justice J.P. Stevens
Born: April 20, 1920 (Chicago)
Appointed as Justice: by President Ford (1975)

Justice S.D. O'Connor
Born: March 26, 1930 (ElPaso)
Appointed as Justice: by President Reagan (1981)

Justice A. Scalia
Born: March 11, 1936 (Trenton)
Appointed as Justice: by President Reagan (1986)

Justice A.M. Kennedy
Born: July 23, 1936 (Sacremento)
Appointed as Justice: By President Reagan (1988)

Justice D.H. Souter
Born: September 17, 1939 (Melrose, MA)
Appointed as Justice: by President Bush (1990)

Justice C. Thomas
Born: June 23, 1948 (near Savannah)
Appointed as Justice: by President Bush (1991)

Justice R.B. Ginsburg
Born: March 15, 1933 (Brooklyn)
Appointed as Justice: by President Clinton (1993)

Justice S.C. Breyer
Born: August 15, 1938 (San Francisco)
Appointed as Justice: by President Clinton (1994)

if anyone would like to comment on the political "affiliation" of these folks . . . I'm all eyes!


------------------
Chief Justice Pants
(D)- Texas

KCTitus
12-11-2000, 01:51 PM
BD: Ginsburg didnt strike me that way as much as Souter did because he didnt seem concerned with the legality of what his position was but rather how to create a standard by which the ballots could be counted. A CLEAR violation of the constitution by creating a law (the standard) after the election.

It's frustrating that it ever reached this point. If the FL SC had done it's job, it would have upheld the fact that Gore didnt prove with any evidence that there was fraud or voting machine malfunction. Voter Error is NOT grounds for a re-count.

All this has done is put a cloud of illegitimacy over the election and the new president and at this point, I would much rather that cloud be hanging over Algore.

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 02:00 PM
KCT,
I think that it would help if we received better than a 5-4 verdict here. I would like to see the cloud over Sore, but I cannot imagine seeing him end up being rewarded for his behavior in this election. I think that would do more harm than any other conclusion.

BIG DADDY
Thinks that this entire process will wake up the Republicans.FINALLY

Baby Lee
12-11-2000, 02:16 PM
Hearing the justices entertain the notion of ANOTHER remand to Floriduh brought back to mind a question I conjured while at my MOST cynical this weekend. Is it possible that the Chief Justice in Floriduh issued his scathing rebuke in part to give his assent an air of authority were a remand to issue from SCOTUS?
That is, the justices obviously arrive at their decisions in full view of the position of the others. And they knew their decision was likely to be appealed. Could the Chief Justice have issued its fiery denouncement, if only in part, to afford him an opportunity to agree to another formulation down the road on remand.
Conservatives were giddy about his language and lauded him, quoted him, etc. Seemingly forgetting his position a mere week before. Now hwaving their praise on tape, he reviews a new standard for recounting and solemnly states, "my fears have been allayed. Let the recount commence." Now the conservative pundits have no currency with which to challenge him at that point, and SCOTUS will be relucant to take this up a THIRD time.

KCTitus
12-11-2000, 02:21 PM
JC: That IS cynical, but I have to admit I considered it as well. I found it quite interesting that the SCOTSOF split after their earlier ruling.

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 06:08 PM
Well it is over for the night. They say that the longer that it takes, the better for Bush. I am not exactly sure if I believe that. The longer to me just means that it is very close. I never trust the rats when it is this close. I really hope Bush wins tomorrow and this BS is finally over with.I think that a decisive decision would help the incoming president. A 5-4 decision would just add fuel to the fire that is already dividing society.

BIG DADDY
Wants closure.

KCWolfman
12-11-2000, 06:11 PM
BD - I disagree, since most of the appointees are Republican nominated unless you had a sweeping unanimous decision, some will whine.

Gregg is right, this should have never gotten as far as it has. How many more elections will have to be defended in a courtroom from here out?

BIG_DADDY
12-11-2000, 06:25 PM
KCW,
I agree that it never should have gotten this far. I am probably just being paranoid in my old age but who can blame me after watching the FSC spit in everyones eye. I never thought that would happen either.

BIG DADDY
Still freaked out.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 09:46 AM
What do you guys think would happen to the markets and all of your 401k investments if somehow Gorleone manages to steal this thing?.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 09:49 AM
The same thing that happnened each time Clinton was elected. They will continue to increase in value.

What do you think will happen if Bush is elected? We'll all become millionaires?

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 09:53 AM
Clint,
You amaze me sometimes. If Gorleone is in, the markets will tank. Will you lose your lifes investments NO. Will we all become Bill Gates if Bush is in NO. But it will hurt if Gorleone goes in.

BIG DADDY
Thought that he was stateing the obvious

TeenagerFromMars
12-12-2000, 09:55 AM
The view from Mars:

The only way this scenario happens again is if the parties field two more equally unremarkable candidates. With all this talk of a "Constitutional Crisis," I don't see too many people who would line up and take a bullet for either candidate...

TFM

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 02:30 PM
I have been in meetings all day. Has anybody heard anything? Are we even going to get an answer today?

WisChief
12-12-2000, 02:34 PM
Just checked it out myself - no word yet. The legislature (FL) is voting now....

KCTitus
12-12-2000, 02:37 PM
No news, BD. Still waiting.

TFM: This is not about the candidates, it's about our system of government. Judicial Activism has created this 'crisis' and if left unfettered could be the eventual undoing of our Constitution.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 02:47 PM
KCT,
If our constitution can make it through the all out assault this administration has put it through then it will make it through this. I would be at least as concerned about the anti-terrorist bill and all of this gun legislation as I would be about these rulings.

BIG DADDY
Still has that bottle of scotch he has been waiting to drink once Gorleone is out.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 02:49 PM
When is the vote to abolish the Constitution going to take place?

I might actually tune in to C-SPAN for that!

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 02:52 PM
Clint,
That is what you are saving your bottle of scotch for isn't it?

BIG DADDY
Thinks everyone is to the right of you.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 02:59 PM
I'm as "in the middle" as can reasonably be expected. I almost ALWAYS disagree with the views of the far left or the far right...it just so happens that most of the political views on this BB come from the moderate-to-extreme right.

I can't believe that you think the Constitution is under attack. Let's say it is. Answer this:

What would Al Gore gain by attacking the Constitution?

How would he accomplish such a task without help from a multitude of Republicans?

I can just imagine Gore and his legion of Goretroops, poised to launch an all-out military stike against Washington D.C..

"Golly, I'd really like to overrun the existing government and enslave the citizens of this country, but that gosh-darn piece of paper..."

Face it, man. Your constitutional paranoia is reaching militia proportions.

KCTitus
12-12-2000, 03:03 PM
Clint: Im sorry, you are nowhere near the middle.<P>

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 03:05 PM
Clint,
So invasion of privacy & the right of the citizenship to keep and bear arms is a paranoia of militia proportions?

BIG DADDY
Wants to know what is wrong with militias?<BR>

mlyonsd
12-12-2000, 03:07 PM
Clint is right, I don't view this as Gore attacking the Constitution. I think it can be more compared to old fashioned election stealing like they did in the old days in Chicago.

In either case the sun will come up tomorrow. Unless of course you are in the midwest.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 03:10 PM
BD,

Thinking the Constitution is under attack is paranoia. Anyone that wants the Contitution abolished is simply going to disregard it anyway.

Titus,

You wouldn't know the middle if you tripped on it. Just because I always disagree with the far right doesn't make me a liberal. If I were, I would admit it. It's no worse to be a Commie than a Nazi.

TheFly
12-12-2000, 03:14 PM
"It is no worse being a Commie or a Nazi?" Huh? What are you saying?!

If Al Gore could ignore the Constitution in order to achieve power, I have no doubt that he would.

TeenagerFromMars
12-12-2000, 03:15 PM
Titus-

I disagree. I believe it IS about the candidates. Either of them could have conceded and then there would be no "crisis." The "crisis" was created by a close race between mediocre candidates; both of whom have done everything within the law to dispute the results.

I believe the system of government is working just fine. Is it not the Supreme Court's responsibility to rule on unclear issues and determine Constitutionality? I have faith that they will make the right decision.

TFM

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 03:18 PM
Clint,
I have to take off to go to another appointment but I would like to pick up where we left off on this constitution thing because this administration has done just that, ignore it.

BIG DADDY
Will be back in a couple of hours.

Baby Lee
12-12-2000, 03:18 PM
I agree that the prospects for 'abolishing' the Constitution are not at all realistic. But hardly a day goes by that some talking head, or some glitterati bimbette, or [gasp] a Baldwin, isn't on TV talking about how some section of the Constitution was written hundreds of years ago, by dead, lazy, slave-owning white guys, who were getting head in the halls of Congress [only the nation didn't know, 'cuz no one thought getting a hummer was important enough to hop on a horse and spread the news across the countryside].
Clearly, a growing section of arousal-gappers have a growing animosity to certain sections of the Constitution, or certain applications/interpretations of said sections.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 03:19 PM
It's no worse to be a Commie (far left) than a Nazi (far right). Don't take it so literally.

As a conservative, I'm sure you think that Al "Dr. Evil" Gore is capable of anything, while Bush just wants to end world hunger, bring peace to all of mankind, and plant a tree.

D.C. is FULL of power-hungry people (of both parties) that have wet dreams about being King of America. It's not like Bush is running for the money or to help this country. All presidential candidates are in it for the power, IMO.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 03:22 PM
The Constitution is full of amendments. The founding fathers didn't intend for it to remain unchanged for all time.

If an amendment were proposed to make ALL types of guns legal, or to outlaw abortion, would you be in favor of it? If you don't think the Constitution should be tinkered with, then how about getting rid of all those "amendments"?

TheFly
12-12-2000, 03:23 PM
"Dammit, Clint, I'm a libertarian, not a conservative!" - borrowing from Dr. McCoy<BR>

KCTitus
12-12-2000, 03:29 PM
Clint: That's too funny. It really is all opinion. I dont see socialized medicine, government retirement programs, redistribution of wealth and atheism like you do as a 'value' of the middle.

It's obvious anyone just to the right of Gore is a 'right winger' in your eyes. That's ok. We need you liberals too.

TFM: That's odd. How could either of them concede when one was declared and certified the winner? I do understand what you are saying, though, that Al could have conceded but chose to take up this legal fight over the good of the country.

I have to disagree w/you about the system working fine. We've seen blatent Judicial Activism by the SCOTSOF, not once but twice. This type of activism goes on all around the country by many different judges legislating from the bench. I dont trust the judiciary because I cant elect them, they are appointed.

Baby Lee
12-12-2000, 03:33 PM
Slow down a second. I never said anything about a sacrosanct Constitution. But the Constitution is as close to a perfect secular document as has ever existed, and it takes a little more than some dim-bulb's decision to campaign for change between films to alter it, or at least it should.
I am not saying that change is imminent. I'm not even commenting on whether or not some changes are merited. I am rebuting your statement that the Constitution is not under attack.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Clint: That's too funny. It really is all opinion. I dont see socialized medicine, government retirement programs, redistribution of wealth and atheism like you do as a 'value' of the middle.

It's obvious anyone just to the right of Gore is a 'right winger' in your eyes. That's ok. We need you liberals too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where do I begin?

Socialized Medicine - I've never appoved of it, although I have said that something needs to be done with the current system.

Government retirement programs - Once again, I don't think Social Security should be abolished, but it does need to be revamped.

Redistribution of wealth - This already happens all the time no matter WHO is in charge. I have said I'm against tax breaks for the rich & I like the IDEA of a flat tax.

Atheism - Not a political issue, & certainly not indicative of one's political affiliation, unless you're referring to a member of the religious right.

I can't believe that you're acting like you're just barely a Republican. The fact that you even brought up atheism shows me that you're about to topple off the right side of the scale.

Chief Henry
12-12-2000, 03:44 PM
Did you guys here about Senator Tom Dascle of S.D. not allowing voting machines
on military basis? This is really going to hurt demo's in nect elections. After all,
"all the votes must count"........

The demo's are in big trouble I tell you.


------------------
Chiefs Rock

TeenagerFromMars
12-12-2000, 03:48 PM
Titus-

But aren't these judges appointed by elected officials on your behalf?

Also, don't forget that BOTH candidates have been very active in the courts FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS, not the Constitution's.

TFM

Brock
12-12-2000, 04:00 PM
BD:"If Gorleone is in, the markets will tank."

Heard that before, about Bill "Satan" Clinton in '92. Turned out to be complete BS.

As to what is wrong with militias, ask people in Oklahoma City that question.

Baby Lee
12-12-2000, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> As to what is wrong with militias, ask people in Oklahoma City that question. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And what, praytell, would they say? Watch the stereotyping. Its ill-becoming.

Clint in Wichita
12-12-2000, 04:04 PM
Nothing is wrong with the idea of militias, but in America there are only paranoid domestic terrorists.

TheFly
12-12-2000, 04:25 PM
You know, I've heard from sources that Elvis is in a militia. Could that be why he has never won a playoff game?<BR>

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 06:00 PM
Brock,
Clint,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to what is wrong with militias, ask people in Oklahoma City that question.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is about as bad as blameing catholics for having their preachers molest children.
And what in the f*ck do you know about the quality of our militias in this country clint. Have you been in one? NOT, Do you have freinds that are in one? NOT, What exposure have either one of you had to militias other than what our Liberal media has portrayed them as? I have an analyst that works for me and he is from Russia. He says that the media over here is is worse than back in Russia. He said that no only is it more one sided here (left wing agendas ) but at least back home everybody knows when they are being bullsh*ted. People here actually believe that what they are being shown is the truth.

BIG DADDY
Wake the f*ck up.

[This message has been edited by BIG_DADDY (edited 12-12-2000).]

Brock
12-12-2000, 06:13 PM
And what in the f*ck do you know about the quality of our militias in this country clint. Have you been in one? NOT, Do you have freinds that are in one?

As a matter of fact, I have many ex-friends who were and are in so-called militias. As soon as I saw them applauding Mr. McVeigh as a "freedom fighter", I no longer associated with them. As far as my stereotyping all militia members as right-wing wackos, that is no worse than what I read from you about liberals and democrats.

Mi_chief_fan
12-12-2000, 06:14 PM
I once belonged to a militia.

It was called the United States Navy. :)

How ya been, BD?

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 06:27 PM
Mi,
What's happening? As you can see I am stuck in the same rut again.

Brock,
What I have I said about the demorats that could compare?

BIG DADDY
Is not sure he should have asked that.

Brock
12-12-2000, 06:29 PM
"TWA flight 800, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Vince Foster and the endless body count."

Duh.

Mi_chief_fan
12-12-2000, 06:45 PM
BD,
You seem like a nice guy, even though we don't agree on much. Why do you keep doing this to yourself? I hate to see you beat yourself up.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 06:45 PM
Brock,
The last time I checked Janet "the bull" Reno was a part of the Clinton administration. She personally created WACO and was responsible for the cover-ups on the others. What part of that was wrong? By the way there are still a lot of problems with your bombing as well.

BIG DADDY
Just telling it like it is.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2000, 07:05 PM
MI,
Just venting I guess. I'll tell you what I don't like is BIG goverment and expanding their powers. ANYBODY who is for that I am against. Democrat, Republican ect. There was an intelligent line in here earlier about extreme right and left being the same. That is correct, extreme right and left become the same atrocity. The telling signs that we are starting to go down this road are always the same. The first thing to go is the guns and then the rights of the citizens. Our basic CONSTITUTIONAL rights. It saddens me to see people so ready to just throw out the infrastructure that has built this great country. CLINT, that guy could amend away everything if it served his purpose. The amount of effort being put into gun legislation is beyond belief and the anti-terrorist bill and carnivore are huge violations to our right to privacy. They also expand the goverments power to more extreme levels. I am actually very liberal when it comes to most moral issues and more conservative fiscally. The reason I am SO MADD :mad: at the demorats is because they are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I can't believe that anyone would support this administration. Their intensions maybe noble but I don't think they see what is REALLY happening.

BIG DADDY
Maybe I should just give up. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

TheFly
12-12-2000, 07:29 PM
FYI... The Supreme Court will release a ruling by midnight...

Brock
12-12-2000, 07:38 PM
What are you telling me now, BD, McVeigh was just a patsy in an elaborate (democratic) government scheme to assassinate its own employees?

Dude, you are ridiculous. Explain to me again how you haven't said anything about democrats that was on par with what I said about militias? Did the men in the black helicopters shoot down Flight 800 too?

Get a grip.

Mi_chief_fan
12-12-2000, 07:57 PM
All Clint suggests is that there is a REASON our forefathers allow amendments, and that is to keep up with a changing society. I, for one, have never heard Clint say that we should amend guns & peoples rights out of the constitution. I agree with you that our rights should be protected, but I agree with Clint that as society changes, so should certain parts of the constitution.(Remember prohibition?)

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 12-12-2000).]

KCWolfman
12-12-2000, 07:57 PM
Clint - You state "I have said I'm against tax breaks for the rich & I like the IDEA of a flat tax."

A flat tax rate is a wonderful idea, it is also a TREMENDOUS tax break for the rich paying more than 40% of wages in taxes.

You have created a conundrum with your statement.

Mi_chief_fan
12-12-2000, 08:00 PM
Russ,
I like the IDEA of everybody winning the powerball & becoming rich, but it wouldn't be good for the economy & [b]IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!</B>

Clint in Wichita
12-13-2000, 08:27 AM
If you are rich and pay 40% in taxes, your accountant sucks.

Clint in Wichita
12-13-2000, 08:33 AM
BTW Big Daddy, Bush is going to be the next President. NO WHINING out of you for 4 years!!

Red Till Dead
12-13-2000, 08:47 AM
Most people actually pay more than 40% in taxes when you figure in all that the government receives.
- State Taxes
- Gas Taxes
- Sales Taxes
- Service Fees (plates, inspections, to many to mention)
- Social Security
- Medicade
- Capital Gains (double taxation)
Yea, we are under taxed!

Clint in Wichita
12-13-2000, 09:01 AM
I agree, but we weren't talking about sales tax, property tax, etc.

BIG_DADDY
12-13-2000, 10:04 AM
Hell yea. No having to look at that big goofy b*stard for four years. I can hardly wait to see his concession speech. Boo hoo This is a terrible injustice to the American people Boo Hoo. The American people chose me by majority (LIE) Boo hoo & and it is sad day in America when all the votes cannot be counted Boo Hoo.

BIG DADDY
Wants to see tears http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

BIG_DADDY
12-13-2000, 10:09 AM
Brock,
Your little game is the weakest on the entire BB. I NEVER blamed the democrats for creating either situation YOU keep putting words in my mouth because you cannot address the issue. I blamed them for the cover-up in both situations.

BIG DADDY
Your game is weak, try again.

Clint in Wichita
12-13-2000, 10:22 AM
Big Daddy,

Time to stop complaining. Your country is safe.

BIG_DADDY
12-13-2000, 10:28 AM
Clint,
If you recall I never even voted for Bush. I am a libertarian and voted for Harry Brown. Unlike the Demorats who back their party no matter how corrupt it becomes I will be the first to ***** when Bush does things that I don't believe in. If judged Big Al Gorleone even 1/2 as hard as I will judge Bush you would never have backed him. BTW taxex are taxes, period.

BIG DADDY
Wants to see tears tonight. BOOOO HOOOO

Brock
12-13-2000, 10:31 AM
Out of morbid curiosity, what did the government cover up in Oklahoma City? In Flight 800?

Brock
this should be funny

BIG_DADDY
12-13-2000, 10:44 AM
Brock,
I have to do this quick because I am going into a meeting but let's start with TWA flight 800. The plane was shot out of the sky with a missle and I will not attempt to elaborate beyond that. There is an eyewitness alliance made out of over 100 eywitesses who spent their own money to take out this add in the Washington Times. http://aim.org/publications/special_reports/wash_times.html I am sure that it is just more of the vast right-wing conspiracy :rolleyes: Talk about paranoid.

BIG DADDY
Will address the other issue when he gets out of the meeting.

Brock
12-13-2000, 10:53 AM
Hundreds of people see UFO's every year too. Is that a government coverup too?

Clint in Wichita
12-13-2000, 12:10 PM
I did not back Gore.

Taxes are not all the same. Sales taxes are increased by the local govt., and property taxes are handled by the state.

I can't even imagine what Big Daddy must think of the JFK asassination.

BIG_DADDY
12-13-2000, 03:14 PM
Brock,
This is pointless so I will end it now. Hundreds of people seeing something at the same time including high ranking military personnel and you compare it to a UFO sighting. It just goes to show the extent some demorats are willing to go to protect this administration and turn their head the other way. There are plenty of good Democrats, I don't understand why you don't try and promote those people instead of an obviously VERY corrupt administration. I think that I am even more amazed at your inability to grasp the fact that I was going after this administration and not democrats in general. You still do not have it.

Clint,
I cant believe that I am actually saying this but I expected more from you. You actually try to be objective sometimes in your own demented left-wing sort of way.

BIG DADDY
Should probably have expected this type of hostility today.

Logical
12-13-2000, 08:49 PM
Clint,

Your information sounds local in nature, many States have a State Sales tax (such as California) with a local sales tax on top of that. Just letting you know.

Logical
12-13-2000, 08:51 PM
Clint, By the way you are also wrong on your generalization on property taxes as well. In California property taxes are levied by the county, there is no state property tax.

TheFly
12-13-2000, 09:46 PM
I posted this on the KCBB following a very selective fact-finding and conclusion by Ugly Duck... I thought it might be worth posting here...
- - - - - - - - -
Selective reasoning there UD...
- Gore requests recounts in 3 heavily Democratic counties where he won the vote by 63%, 67% and 53%, respectively
- Each county sets a DIFFERENT hand recount standard
- Similar counties in Florida with significant undervotes were NOT solicited by Gore for a hand recount due to the FACT that they voted overwhelmingly Republican
- If Gore was for ALL THE VOTES to be counted he would have asked for hand recounts in ALL Florida counties where there were significant undervotes. He did NOT do this nor suggest this course of action UNTIL the Equal Protection Clause was being waved in his face...
- DNC actively pursued disenfranchising military votes
- DNC actively pursued having VALID ballots thrown out because of issues with absentee ballot applications, NOT with the ballots or voters themselves. Their intent was clearly known. AS the courts ruled. <BR>

TheFly
12-13-2000, 09:46 PM
Part II of my reply to Ugly Duck:

- The USSC by 9-0 vacated the first FSC decision for lack of any statute or constitutionality in the FSC decision making process
- The USSC by 7-2 vacated the 2nd FSC decision due to Equal Protection issues
- The USSC by 5-4, along ideological lines, said the state legislature has plenary authority on rules within the state for selecting electors, not the state court. Hence, the state court CANNOT change dates and such enacted clearly by the legislature.
- Clear problems remain with Florida's ballot system, especially in Democratic counties, where as Judge Sanders Saul (Democrat) notes that these counties have KNOWN for YEARS of their elector problems and done NOTHING about it. Well, guess who's in charge in those counties elections boards? Democrats. It's not a money issue. It's simply bad administration and management at the county level.
- Lastly, don't blame Bush (either of them) for problems at the county level, used for Gore's benefit and fought in the courts by Dubya to have the Constitution upheld. It was caused by your own folks... <BR>

Ugly Duck
12-13-2000, 11:20 PM
But, Fly...It is Florida law that a candidate can ask for a recount in any county. It is a Fla statute that local canvassing boards decide how to "determine the will of the voter." At least it was til the USSC changed it after the election. The Gore team was following Fla law. They were stopped because the USSC determined that Fla election practices are not constitutional. The USSC vacate was a call for explanation on whether the FLSC was relying on the Fla statutes or the constitution. Then the USSC said the handcounts could go on with a call for new rules, but also that there wasn't enough time. Aw, furget it. Its over. Half of America believes that unpopular Dubya barely snuck in by 1 electoral vote because the votes sitting there did not get counted because the Bush team blocked them. Half of America considers Dubya a legit president. These questions will be debated for years by historians and law classes. But few of us on this board will change the others' minds.

Michael Michigan
12-13-2000, 11:34 PM
Duck-

Half the people consider Bush not a legitimate prez?

No poll has said that. Bush will be considerably popular and that popularity will increase with each appointment to his cabinet.

He'll be hated by leftists, and some hard right wingers, but conservatives and moderates will love him.

Unless the economy goes far south and stays there until 2003 or beyond, he's a two-termer.

Ugly Duck
12-14-2000, 12:16 AM
Sorry, Michigan. I'm having a helluva time toning down the rhetoric. About half the folks see no problems with the way Bush was elected, and about half see real problems. But most of us will manage to accept him anyway. But I am having a tough time of it. Here's a copy of a post I made on the "other" board:

I'm still going through a personal crisis here. I think I've whipped myself up into such a state of prejudice that I have become a rotten person. I listened to Bush's speech, and the words sounded fine. But as he spoke of reaching across the isle and American brotherhood, I had visions of Trent Lott and Orin Hatch spewing the venom of hate and divisive rhetoric in the background. It was a nice speech, but my heart is too clouded and darkened for me to feel the meaning behind the words. This is my president, but I have a lot of work to do before I can bring myself to fully accept it. If I were a religious man, I'd be praying right now. Two of my fav guys are Ghandi and Jimmy Carter. They would not be feeling the lack of compassion that runs through my veins tonight. I'm working on it, but I'm just not as cool a guy as I thought I was before tonight. President Bush, President Bush.....

Pitt Gorilla
12-14-2000, 01:28 AM
Duck,
Would we need to determine the "intent" if the idiots had followed the danged instructions? Check over your ballot..Remove the chads...If you f' up, ask for a new one...Seriously!

------------------
GO PITT!

Michael Michigan
12-14-2000, 09:16 AM
Duck-

I feel your pain...oops that guy's moving to England.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Yea, that works better.

Bush will put together an excellent cabinet, and if he can weather the upcoming slight recession will likely be re-elected in 4 years.

And...Jimmy Carter? That one truly has me stumped. He's a nice gentleman that has done good work since being thrown out of the White House, but that's as close to the brink as we've been in my lifetime.

Lift those personal burdens, it's morning in America once again.

Baby Lee
12-14-2000, 09:30 AM
UD - I can not only sympathize with your statement, but have empathized for a long time now, just from the other side of the aisle [so to speak].
It is frustrating, because I believe wholeheartedly in many of what one would call democrat values, but have been so angered by the 'demonize the opposition' and 'win at all costs' aspects of the last decade, that I feel like I've been 'thrown into the arms' of the Repubs.
The first primary I voted in, soon as I turned 18, I wanted a Repub ballot because we could choose either-or and there were more interesting races in the the Repub primary, not on partisan grounds. Well one of the election officials was our elderly neighbor. And when I asked for a repub primary ballot, she looked at me like I'd just told her I'd crapped my pants.
That look of disproval has stuck with me for a long time. Now every time I hear how this guy or that guy is a 'whites-only, women-hating, corporate-a$$-kissing, tree-burning-down, redneck' for proposing a tax cut or a reform of education or the social security system, I think of that look and remember the revulsion dems [often] have for non-dems.
Case-in-point. Al Gore said 'I will fight for you.' Fight who? I can assume, by the context of his speeches that he wasn't talking about doing hand-to-hand combat with a foreign aggressor. He was talking about, as President of the United States, fighting against american citizens who didn't support him in favor of citizens who did.
As Bush said last night, they're not elected to lead a party. They're elected to lead a Nation.

Enough rambling here. Suffice it to say, I too hope the Dems get back to a Ghandi-esque, Carter-like frame of mind.

TheFly
12-14-2000, 10:19 AM
Wrongo again, UD. Gore sued to get recounts done his way... dimples... when the canvassing boards didn't believe that should be the standard...

Also, 30 states were carried by Bush, representing 143 million people. 20 states were carried by Gore representing 127 million people...


[This message has been edited by TheFly (edited 12-14-2000).]

Clint in Wichita
12-14-2000, 10:25 AM
What kind of number is that?

Everyone (well, almost) knows that Gore won the popular vote.

Bush was the first to take legal action.

However, all this sh_t doesn't matter now. Dubya is the President.

This country has a knack for selecting real "winners" as its leaders.

TheFly
12-14-2000, 10:27 AM
Clint, it's as good as any number Gore was trying to get...

We live in a REPUBLIC, where the states select the president, not a direct TOTAL popular vote... Go read the Constitution...

Otherwise, Nixon would have been President in 1960!<P>

Dr. Red
12-14-2000, 11:54 AM
Amen brother. My sentiments exactly.

LMAO......BBBBBBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

"To what do we owe for these wonderful elder statesmen".........hehehe........

A recession

Brock
12-14-2000, 02:52 PM
http://ichart.yahoo.com/t?s=^IXIC

DanT
12-14-2000, 03:37 PM
Hey TheFly,

Do you have a source for your astonishing claim in reply #181 that the states carried by Bush have more population than the ones carried by Gore? After all, excluding Washington D.C.'s 3 electoral votes and the 2 "senatorial" electoral votes in each state, Gore won 224 (267 total minus 3 from D.C. minus the 40 "senatoral" from Gore's 20 states) "congressional" electoral votes versus 211 (271 minus 60 senatorial from Bush's 30 states) "congressional" electoral votes for Bush. The number of "congressional" electoral votes is closely proportionate to population size, so it's doubtful that Gore could have won 13 more "congressional" electoral votes than Bush and yet not have more people in the states that he carried.

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 12-14-2000).]

Chief Henry
12-14-2000, 03:41 PM
UD,

You think Trent Lott and Orrin Hatch are
radical, in my book they are pussies.

The real radicals are My stinking senator in Iowa Tom Harkin, and other midwest state
senators like Dick(head) Gebhart in Missouri
and Tom Daschle in South Dakota. Those 3 are radicals. Hell, Harkin does not even own a home in Iowa, he owns a home
someplace in the caribbean.

Lets see if the democratic leadership controls the sevility of Jesse Jackson.
We are suppose to get along after all.

TheFly
12-14-2000, 04:00 PM
UD, Yes I have a source, as a matter of fact. USAToday... http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/cbc/map.htm

<p align="center">
<font color="#FFFFFF">
<img border="1" src="http://www.symetrex.com/e2000map.jpg" >
</font>
</p><BR>

TheFly
12-14-2000, 04:01 PM
Don't know how I got a double post... sorry...



[This message has been edited by TheFly (edited 12-14-2000).]

DanT
12-14-2000, 04:37 PM
Hey TheFly,

Read your source again--it's talking about counties, not states.

TheFly
12-14-2000, 05:44 PM
DT, Bush carried 30 states, Al 20 states...
Source again: USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/electfront.htm

<p align="center">
<font color="#FFFFFF">
<img border="1" src="http://www.symetrex.com/e2000state.jpg" >
</font>
</p>

Anything else you wanna nitpick on?<P>

Logical
12-14-2000, 07:31 PM
This Post Deleted

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-14-2000).]

Cannibal
12-14-2000, 07:44 PM
Gore won the "popular" vote.

That's what most of us have been talking about for the last month. It's been on every talk show and in most print publications in this country.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/
http://www.multied.com/elections/2000state.html



[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-14-2000).]

KCWolfman
12-14-2000, 07:50 PM
Cannibal - You are correct, but the popular vote has never established a President in this Country for quite some time. Gore knew that before he ran and would have gladly given up the popular vote for a few more electorals.

As far as a 'popular vote' it was only popular in the most extreme and detailed oriented of mathematical minds. He won the popular vote by 1/10th of 1%, I would not call that popular by any stretch of the imagination.

Cannibal
12-14-2000, 07:53 PM
I know all about the electoral college and the popular vote. No need for you to try to educate me on the subject.

The fact is... even though the number was small, more people voted for Gore than for Bush.


Another poster tried to say that Bush won the popular vote.

I was just pointing out his inaccuracy.<P>

Cannibal
12-14-2000, 07:55 PM
Gore: 50,158,094

Bush: 49,820,518

KCWolfman
12-14-2000, 07:57 PM
Cannibal - I dont think even the word 'small' is appropriate. More like infantismal.

If you and I ride on the Concorde and I run to the front of the plane, no one in the world will recognized that for a brief moment I was traveling faster than you - although it is a fact.

Cannibal
12-14-2000, 07:59 PM
You are correct, it is a fact.

KCWolfman
12-14-2000, 08:01 PM
Cannibal I believe you are deliberatley missing the point. Chuck Yeager leaned forward in his historic mach-1 flight, his leaning was not counted as part of the speed.

Cannibal
12-14-2000, 08:05 PM
Even if it was just one person, more people still voted for Gore.

I know that sticks in your craw, but the votes counted and Bush came up short. It's nothing to ashamed of. He'll still be president.<P>

KCWolfman
12-14-2000, 08:10 PM
I feel no shame, of course I am not trying to rationalize that a dribble is important enough to count.

Cannibal
12-14-2000, 08:13 PM
Considering that Florida came down to 100 votes, 300,000+ is not that small a number.

DanT
12-14-2000, 11:46 PM
TheFly,

I'll decline to correct any more of the claims you have made on this thread because, based on your reaction in reply #191 upon being corrected on the erroneous claim featured in your reply #181 (that the states carried by Bush were more populous than the states carried by Gore), it doesn't seem to me that you'd appreciate the help. All of us get the occasional fact wrong and there's no shame in that when the mistake was a honest one, as I believe yours was. But it seems to me that a commitment to the truth is better served by being cordial with anyone who helps correct a honest mistake, especially when their help was provided in a civil manner, as mine was.

Rather than cordiality, all I see in your reply #191 is a fact that I had already acknowledged (that Bush won 30 states and Gore 20) and the deprecation of the now-corrected claim to a mere nit, as if it were I who had introduced and featured the claim and not you.

Of course, based on the hugely unfunny and knee-not-slapping non-hilarity that has characterized most of the recent Pro-Bush humor on this board, I suppose it could just be that your reply #191 was meant as a humorous barb to Gore supporters (i.e. "the bottom line is Bush won: Nah-nah-na-nah-na :p"). If so, then I apologize for not realizing that (I'm a Nader supporter and thus completely lacking many senses of humor!) and would you please be so kind in the future as to identify your future attempts at humor with a label (e.g. "Pro-Bush supporter humor attempt") for the benefit of us folks who lack whatever sense of humor it is that one must have to think that any of these jokes lately is funny. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

Michael Michigan
12-15-2000, 12:10 AM
Know-it-all. And a Naderite. For shame.

BTW--Is Daly back in town, or has he been barred for disgracing the city?

:D ;) :p

DanT
12-15-2000, 12:13 AM
Hey KCAZ,

I don't know where Daley is--maybe back in Washington helping his buddies pack http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

DanT
12-15-2000, 12:17 AM
Hey KCAZ,

They wouldn't bar Bill Daley. Remember, his brother is mayor here for as long as he wants (despite my efforts!).

Michael Michigan
12-15-2000, 12:17 AM
DanT-

Damn I can't even spell his name right. You have now undermined me as a fellow know-it-all. I hope you're happy. ;)

Were they the ones who bought the Ryder truck on e-bay?

DanT
12-15-2000, 12:22 AM
KCAZ,

Possibly. One of Daley's buddies owns a trucking company that leases trucks and parking lots at absolutely outrageous prices. (The guy's last name is Tadin, I think). Anyway, the newspapers every once in a while will run long stories detailing the scandalous excess. At first, I thought they did this to provoke a sense of outrage among the populace, but now I've wised up: they do this to ensure the populace that everything's just as crooked as ever and not to worry, go back to sleep!

TheFly
12-15-2000, 12:39 AM
You are right DT... I should have said that more people were represented by counties voting for Bush than were by counties voting for Gore...

So sue me... :p<BR>

DanT
12-15-2000, 12:51 AM
Hey TheFly,

On the other hand, you should be commended for getting the numbers right and for actually having a source--that by itself puts you way ahead of a lot of us ;)

Best regards,
Dan

TheFly
12-15-2000, 10:37 AM
OK, DT, you got me going on this one. There was no handy data for your question so I went to the US Census site and added up the population estimates for 1999 by which candidate "carried" the state (electoral college-wise)... Here ya go...

==================================
BUSH: 135,587,324 49.7%
==================================
GORE: 137,103,489 50.3%
==================================
Grand Total: 272,690,813 100.0%


http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/state/st-99-1.txt

"Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades..."


[This message has been edited by TheFly (edited 12-15-2000).]

TheFly
12-15-2000, 10:41 AM
Here's the breakout, electoral-college-wise, of population (est 1999) by US census bureau...

Bush
Alabama 4,369,862
Alaska 619,500
Arizona 4,778,332
Arkansas 2,551,373
Colorado 4,056,133
Florida 15,111,244
Georgia 7,788,240
Idaho 1,251,700
Indiana 5,942,901
Kansas 2,654,052
Kentucky 3,960,825
Louisiana 4,372,035
Mississippi 2,768,619
Missouri 5,468,338
Montana 882,779
Nebraska 1,666,028
Nevada 1,809,253
New Hampshire 1,201,134
North Carolina 7,650,789
North Dakota 633,666
Ohio 11,256,654
Oklahoma 3,358,044
South Carolina 3,885,736
South Dakota 733,133
Tennessee 5,483,535
Texas 20,044,141
Utah 2,129,836
Virginia 6,872,912
West Virginia 1,806,928
Wyoming 479,602
Total:: 135,587,324



[This message has been edited by TheFly (edited 12-15-2000).]

TheFly
12-15-2000, 10:43 AM
Here's the breakout, electoral-college-wise for Gore based upon 1999 estimates from the Census Bureau...

Gore
California 33,145,121
Connecticut 3,282,031
Delaware 753,538
D.C. 519,000
Hawaii 1,185,497
Illinois 12,128,370
Iowa 2,869,413
Maine 1,253,040
Maryland 5,171,634
Massachusetts 6,175,169
Michigan 9,863,775
Minnesota 4,775,508
New Jersey 8,143,412
New Mexico 1,739,844
New York 18,196,601
Oregon 3,316,154
Pennsylvania 11,994,016
Rhode Island 990,819
Vermont 593,740
Washington 5,756,361
Wisconsin 5,250,446
Total:: 137,103,489

TheFly
12-15-2000, 10:44 AM
This is a Repeat...

OK, DT, you got me going on this one. There was no handy data for your question so I went to the US Census site and added up the population estimates for 1999 by which candidate "carried" the state (electoral college-wise)... Here ya go...
==================================
BUSH: 135,587,324 49.7%
==================================
GORE: 137,103,489 50.3%
==================================
Grand Total: 272,690,813 100.0%

http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/state/st-99-1.txt

"Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades..."<BR>

DanT
12-15-2000, 12:55 PM
Hey TheFly,

Thanks for all the hard-work and for using the best-available data (e.g. the Census Bureau's). Though it's possible for someone to have more "congressional" electoral votes (the electoral votes that don't include the 100 senatorial votes nor the 3 Washington D.C. votes) and yet not have more folks in the states he or she carried, it's seems very unlikely--the surest way for it to happen would be if one candidate won all of the states with big population losses since the last decennial Census: such states are the ones that have more Congressmen than they "should". On the other side of the same coin, the opponent could carry all the states with the biggest population gains since the last decennial Census: such states have fewer Congressmen than they "should".

Thanks again, TheFly, for the great job in finding and summarizing the data!

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 12-15-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 12-15-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 12-15-2000).]