PDA

View Full Version : I like Elvis, but ...


Idahojim
12-14-2000, 06:01 PM
I wonder often this time of year what things would be like had the Chiefs realized what they had in Rich Gannon when he was riding the pine under Steve Bono?

There would have been no need to sign Elvis, and the big dollars they paid him would have been available elsewhere. And there would have been no transition period while Elvis found his groove.

Hindsight is indeed 20/20, but sometimes it feels like a stick in the eye.

MrBlond
12-14-2000, 06:09 PM
Not to mention that Elvis has never won a playoff game.

Rick Stephens
12-14-2000, 06:18 PM
Rich Gannon has never won a playoff game either !!!!

DaWolf
12-14-2000, 09:15 PM
Chiefs record when Rich Gannon started: 11-8

Chiefs record when Rich Gannon didn't start: 31-14

Nuff said...

ck_IN
12-14-2000, 09:46 PM
People please, please put this Gannon thing to bed.

You like this passing circus we have with EG? You like those long bombs to DA? Those deep routes by Sly? The record for catches by Gonzo? If so you could forget them with Gannon at the helm. Gonzo might still get his catches but they'd be 5 to 10 yrd routes.

You want to see the Chiefs O with Gannon? Look at the Oakland O. Now take away the running game. Now take away Tim Brown. Now add dinks and dunks. The same dinks and dunks everyone complained of under Hackett.

Our current O, with EG is deadly. It would be even more deadly with a running game. Gannon would be a setback with our current personell.

morphius
12-14-2000, 10:05 PM
ck - Well said, I agree completely.

Gaz
12-15-2000, 07:31 AM
ck_IN nailed it.

What kind of Offense do you want?

1. Dink-dunk throws under the coverage and long, sustained drives.
You want Gannon.

2. Vertical play action game with quick scores and long passes.
You want Grbac.

Gannon is having a great year because he is a perfect fit for the personnel and game plan in Oakland. He is currently at the top of his game and needs only a second WR to max out his abilities.

Grbac is have a great year despite the lack of a running game and Raye as OC. He is currently setting records under terrible conditions for a QB and is not even close to showing what he can do.

Who is going to improve as his supporting cast and coach improves?

Who is a good now as he is going to get?

Who do you want for QB of the Chiefs?

xoxo~
gaz
thinks this one is a slam-dunk.


[This message has been edited by Gaz (edited 12-15-2000).]

gh4chiefs
12-15-2000, 08:04 AM
I understand where you're coming from Idahojim, but most people here don't want to think about it. It is after all, a "what if" and what's done is done. Grabc is our QB, and Gannon is "the enemy" now.

But I too wonder, if we would have stayed with Gannon, put the money we used on Grbac to pickup a premier RB, and stuck with the "dink-dink" offense as Gaz put it, what might have been. There's no way to every know for sure, just like the argument about the 97 playoff game.

Personally I'm glad to see Gannon have success, I just wished it wasn't with the @$#$ing Raiders. It would have been much easier to take if he would have went to an NFC team.

------------------
Gary

kcred
12-15-2000, 08:08 AM
Absolutely agree with having EG and the future. Think about him, with any kind of a running game, even with TRich as the feature back. An OC, that could game plan, a HC, that would let the OC do his job, and most of all, a whole summer camp working with Cat, DA, and TG. Awesome, now lets get a little defense.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 08:59 AM
GOOD F#@KING LORD!!! SHUT THE HELL UP YA WHINEY BABY! Grbac is doing fine. In fact, if it wasn't for him, I can guarantee you that we would have a LOT less points if we had Gannon in there now. He is not suited to our receivers. Can we stop with this now???

Brock
12-15-2000, 09:18 AM
Guess not everybody can deal with this freedom of speech thing.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 09:37 AM
Nah, just irritated by ignorance...

Brock
12-15-2000, 09:41 AM
I guess ignorance is in the eye of the beholder.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 09:43 AM
True...

Idahojim
12-15-2000, 10:33 AM
Geez - no need to have a sh*t fit. I said I like Elvis, and I'd take him over Gannon now. I've liked him ever since the days I had season tickets to the Michigan games. I think long term the Chiefs made the right decision when they elected to stay with him as the quarterback of the future. And I hope they get him resigned for a long time in the offseason.

It's just fun to speculate on what might have been had Gannon been given a chance during that awful last year with Bonehead.

If wondering is whining, then color me cabernet.

Gaz
12-15-2000, 10:40 AM
At the time, I thought we should keep Gannon and draft our young gun QBOTF. I thought we should tell Gannon that he was the starter and ask him to mentor and season the pup to take over the starting job in three or four years.

Thank goodness Carl paid no attention to me.

xoxo~
gaz
wrong again.<BR>

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 10:47 AM
Sorry Idahojim, really wasn't directed at you personally. I have just seen remark after remark and I respect the dude for hanging in and actually improving his performance, and making the team better. I honestly think if it wasn't for him, the team would be compared to the Chargers/Bangles/Browns... blah. I feel that because of his improved talent, he pulled us out of the cellar. This topic was just the proverbial straw... and I think that Gannon is a Raider now and I HATE Raiders. I wish people could recognize what he has done for the team which obviously you do. Sorry about that.

Love,
Dave

[This message has been edited by bishop_74 (edited 12-15-2000).]

Idahojim
12-15-2000, 10:55 AM
And now that Gannon's a Raider, I hope someday we break his freaking leg.

Love and kisses to you, too, Dave.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:10 AM
You all talk about the differnce in how our offenses are played, but I would ask you a question, which QB is going to the playoffs? Just chill out, I am not trying to start a fight here! It is just I look at the end results, who is advancing, and who is staying home? Scoring points, long bombs, and records are all nice, but if it doesn't advance you into the offseason, it is just that, nice.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

WisChief
12-15-2000, 11:15 AM
RH - good point if Gannon had singlehandly scored everyone of their points??? Gannon has help, Elvis does not. :confused:

Gaz
12-15-2000, 11:19 AM
raiderhader-

That's a pretty narrow criterion for measuring QB performance, don't you think?

Let us examine the concept that an individual player's performance is measured solely by whether or not his team reaches the playoffs:

Earl Campbell
Junior Seau
Barry Sanders
Warren Moon
Tony Gonzalez

I am certain that folks could come up with dozens of other examples of great players on mediocre or bad teams.

I think your yardstick for measuring individual performance is fatally flawed.

xoxo~
gaz
also not trying to start a fight.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:22 AM
Wis, are you saying that EG is responsible for all of the points our team has scored? Sorry but I don't buy that. You are giving absolutely no credit to our receivers. And also, what do you mean that EG has no help? Besides, the main point still stands undisputed, he is going to the playoffs, and we aren't.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

gh4chiefs
12-15-2000, 11:23 AM
The way I took Jim's original post was basically that it sucks as a Chiefs fan to see one our "cast offs" carrying another team, especially the Raiders, to the playoffs.

When we're sitting here, fighting to go 8-8, I think it's normal to do some "what if" thinking and be a little nostalgic about better times with the Chiefs.

Dave I'm not sure I completely understand you. You're saying you think Gannon elevated the Raiders (I strongly agree) but are you saying you didn't think he did the same for the Chiefs? Maybe I'm not reading you right.

------------------
Gary

Gaz
12-15-2000, 11:25 AM
raiderhader-

It is also an undisputed fact that Gannon has 2 vowels in his name and Grbac has only 1.

That is as legitimate a measurement of individual performance as whether or not a team goes to the playoffs.

xoxo~
gaz
making an absurd point.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:29 AM
Gaz, your analogy is also slightly flawed. You put us in the same catagory as the Dolts, but we have way to much talent and potential to be listed with them. Those people you named have next to no help. Gannon, while not single handedly, has helped to bring the talent on his team to it's potential. With the exception of big passing yards, I don't see were EG has done that for us. And yes, I know that alot of it is the coaching, but at the same time, the players are the ones on the field.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:32 AM
Gaz, in reply to #23,How do you compare vowel sounds in ones name, to winning games. I would agree that is absurd, but not a point.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

WisChief
12-15-2000, 11:35 AM
RH - no, no, no - I'm not saying that Elvis scored all our points. I'm saying that Gannon has a more complete team to excel in and if EG had the benefits of a good RB, a better defense each week and special teams that didn't belong at the "special" school, he would be on his way to the playoff too.

also not wanting to start something... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

shakesthecat
12-15-2000, 11:39 AM
Jay Fiedler will take his team to the playoffs this year for cryin out load.

I know who I'd rather have.

Gaz
12-15-2000, 11:40 AM
raiderhader-

My point is that number of vowels is as accurate as playoff appearances at determining individual performance. Playoff appearances is a fine way to judge a TEAM but useless at determining individual performance. By your criterion, Dillon is a bad HB because the Bengals are not in the playoffs.

xoxo~
gaz
pointing out his point.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:42 AM
Wis, that is arguable. Gannon is the type who inspires and wills his teammates to success, where as I still have not seen EG do that. It looked like perhaps he was when we were winning, but now that we are losing he seems to have lost that.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

WisChief
12-15-2000, 11:46 AM
RH - okay then - I guess that the only players that are any good are the ones that go to the playoff. Like Gaz mentioned - Dillon sucks, Tony G sucks, Brett F now sucks, Dan Marino sucked more than not, Gannon really sucked until now, Reggie White really sucks, ect. ect.

It's a team sport and that's all I have to say about that.<P>

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:47 AM
Gaz, go back and read #24. I'll wait. OK, now tell me were I said a player is bad because of the team he plays for. If you want to go back and read the rest of my post you will not find were I said that EG was bad because we aren't going to the playoffs. And I do not agree that vowel sounds in ones name is as legitamite as a win loss record. You just can not make that point.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Gaz
12-15-2000, 11:49 AM
raiderhader-

A lot of it is coaching?

Dude, it is ALL coaching. Between Gunther's foolish adherence to RBbC and Raye's bi-polar play calling, Grbac is screwed. The enemy knows he has to pass and still he is racking up record-breaking stats. The Chiefs staff should know that Grbac is a pocket passer who can light up the sky as long as he has an effective rushing attack to keep the D honest.

The Raiders coaching staff knows exactly what kind of QB Gannon is and have molded their Offensive strategy to best utilize his talents [veteran savvy, scrambling and heart], while minimizing his weakness [relatively weak arm]. The credit there goes to the Raider organization, rather than to Gannon, IMO.

The Chiefs coaching staff has misused Grbac, while the Raiders coaching staff has perfectly used Gannon. Do Grbac and Gannon get the blame and credit for that situation, or is the Offensive scheme the root cause? It seems clear to me that the coaching staff is responsible for the relative success of these two QBs.

xoxo~
gaz
giving credit and blame where it is due.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:49 AM
Wis, go back and reread my post along with Gaz. You two have put words into my mouth, the likes of wich I have not spoken or typed.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

cbg5
12-15-2000, 11:52 AM
Shakes is right on, it is ridiculous to say because one team makes the playoffs the qb is better. That would mean Dilfer, King, Fiedler, and McNair are all better. It just so happens, that out of the two teams we are comparing one team is going to the playoffs and the other is not.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 11:55 AM
Gaz, has not Goonther given EG the power to audible? Could not EG audible a more appropriate play? If I was a QB, and my coaches were idiots I would take charge on the field and win games. Even if audibling was not with in my powers, I would do it anyways. The goal is to overcome the odds and win.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Gaz
12-15-2000, 11:58 AM
raiderhader-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> It is just I look at the end results, who is advancing, and who is staying home? Scoring points, long bombs, and records are all nice, but if it doesn't advance you into the offseason, it is just that, nice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps I misunderstood this quote. The way I read it, a player's value is based on whether or not his team gets to the playoffs, not upon his individual performance [QB rating, yards per carry, INTs, sacks, etc].

If I misconstrued this statement, then I done you wrong.

If that is indeed your position, then it is as absurd as counting the number of vowels in the name [my point exactly].

Please clarify this for me. Perhaps we do not disagree at all.

xoxo~
gaz
taking a brief pause to verify his understanding.<BR>

WisChief
12-15-2000, 11:59 AM
RH - from #24 "With the exception of big passing yards"

I must ask, what else is he supposed to do. I know he has to "will his team to win", but my point is that NONE of the other stars mentioned earlier by me and/or Gaz have "willed" their teams to win. Corey Dillon is THE BEST (imho) HB in the NFL, bar NONE!! and he can't even stiff the playoffs with that TEAM of his.

it's a team sport and that's all I'm gonna say about that :-)

shakesthecat
12-15-2000, 12:00 PM
rh,
If you were a QB and pulled that crap, you'd never make it past Pop Warner<BR>

Gaz
12-15-2000, 12:02 PM
raiderhader-

In #35, you appear to be blaming Grbac for not overcoming Raye's stupid play calling.

Am I misreading you again?

xoxo~
gaz
having some difficulty believing this.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:07 PM
Gaz, I don't belive that a w/l record is the value of a player. I was pointing out one of the differences between the two of them. Gannon finds ways to win and advance his team. EG has not done that as of yet. That is all I was saying.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 12:07 PM
gh4chiefs,
I am not saying that Gannon did not elevate the play level of the Chiefs, but when I see the majority of our yardage and points being on deep passes, I give credit where it is due. I am under the impression that Gannon is not as accurate, nor does he have the power in his arm to throw the long ball. He is obviously a very good scrambler, but if we can lengthen the field and complete passes, even when the other team KNOWS we are going to go long, I think that can give Grbac credit for saving the life of this team... along with the receivers of course. I guess what I am saying is it's NOT Grbacs fault that we are losing. I feel like Gannon's talent would be "limited" because of inept coaching as well.

raiderhater,
Responsibilty ends where? Grbac or Gunther? If Gunther gives him a spoon to dig a hole to China, and can't... who' fault is it???

[This message has been edited by bishop_74 (edited 12-15-2000).]

morphius
12-15-2000, 12:10 PM
Gaz - Didn't you know by know that every loss is Grbac's fault and every win is in spite of him. Personal numbers are nice, but if you can't play offense, defense and special teams while calling all the plays then what good are you?

morphius
12-15-2000, 12:11 PM
Bishop - I would take it one step furhter and say that Gannon does not have the confidence in his arm to throw the deep routes.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:12 PM
Shakes, I would win games, and if the coaches had a problem with that, then it is thier problem.
Gaz, no I am not blaming him, just saying that he could do more.

This is why I ussaually don't go near this topic. Someone doesn't like EG, and they get lambbasted for not agreeing with everyone else.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Idahojim
12-15-2000, 12:13 PM
And I still hope we break his freaking leg.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 12:14 PM
raiderhater,
Responsibilty ends where? Grbac or Gunther? If Gunther gives him a spoon to dig a hole to China, and can't... who' fault is it???

...and I don't think he has the authority to audible whenever he wants unfortunately.



[This message has been edited by bishop_74 (edited 12-15-2000).]

mlyonsd
12-15-2000, 12:15 PM
LOL@ the dig a hole to China line.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:15 PM
Morph, now you are putting words in my mouth. I said no such thing. I do not put all blame on EG. Maybe a little more than you guys do, but I see things in a different light than you do, and therefore a slight difference of opinion is to be expected. Why don't you guys realize that?

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

mlyonsd
12-15-2000, 12:20 PM
RH, if I could give my .02. You are exactly where I was after the 97 season and the Grbac led Chiefs lost to Denver in the playoffs.

Back then I thought it was a mistake in keeping Elvis and losing Gannon. I really thought by 99 we would have a completely different QB cause Elvis wouldn't be able to do it.

Since then I have seen great improvement in him and really think our woes are mostly contributed to the coaching staff. With what we have invested in him I am willing to keep him. If he had a well balanced offense I think he would eat up just about any team. Without putting words into everyone else's mouths I think most Grbackers probably have had their own minds turned around like I have.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 12:22 PM
RH, Thats cool. I just don't wan't you to be upset at the wrong person. Maybe you will change your mind when you see what he is capable of under a different OC situation and we can all judge for sure. Hopefully we will get that opportunity next year and get someone who doesn't have hopscotch as a reference on their resume next year.

[This message has been edited by bishop_74 (edited 12-15-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:22 PM
Bishop, responsibilty lies with the guy in charge. But going with that analogy, why do we ever critisize players? I mean if the guy on top is in charge, then we should blame him for everything. And not only that, but we should congrtulate the coach for all wins. We should congratulate Goonther when Sly jumps up to make a spectacular catch that is way over his head. Why you ask, because Goonther is the one who called for that route, and for the ball to go to him. Makes since doesn't?

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Gaz
12-15-2000, 12:23 PM
raiderhader-

I don't love Grbac. I was on the BB at the start of the season, howling that he was not our QBOTF. Since that point, he has proved to me that he can be our QBOTF with a new OC and a legitimate HB. He is not a great QB, but he is one of the better QBs in the league in this QB-deprived era.

I also think that Gannon is in the perfect spot for his ability. It is to his credit that he is taking advantage of that situation, but it is misguided, IMO, to hail him for being in that position when it is the result of a good coaching staff and Offensive scheme. At the same time, I hear folks scourge Grbac for not overcoming his inept coaching staff.

I understand folks that do not like Grbac for our QB, I simply want to hear legitimate, rational reasons for that position. And there are many legitimate, rational reasons [salary, mental mistakes, throwing into coverage, scrambling instead of stepping up into the pocket, so forth]. "Playoff appearances" falls short of that benchmark, IMO.

xoxo~
gaz
saves his lambasting for obnoxious Broncos Homers.<BR>

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 12:25 PM
RH, Well, I think we can look at the performance level of individuals , and determine where the problem is logically (coaching), and then place blame.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 12:28 PM
RH, Do you not agree that Elvis's performance has been outstanding, and the coordinators have been sub-par? Or do you think Elvis should be able to overcome these obstacles. I personally think that these are obstacles that can not be overcome. I feel it is impossible without better coaching. I feel that he is performing far superior to the majority of the QB's in the league, including Warner, he is just being held back. Again, that is just my opinion.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:29 PM
mylonsd, I didn't have a problem with EG at the end of 97. I thought he wasn't ready to come back, and I thought you had to be crazy to pull Gannon when he was on fire and winning. My problem with him occured in 98 when he started naming teammates who he thought didn't play well after the MNF loss to Pitt. That was when I decided that I wanted him gone. I am by nature a very loyal person, but if someone does something to break my trust, while not impossible to regain it, it can be very difficult. And frankly, EG has not done it.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

mlyonsd
12-15-2000, 12:32 PM
RH, I understand your position, I guess I have seen Elvis overcome the '98 incident and it doesn't bother me like it does you.

You have a right to your opinion.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:34 PM
Bishop, no I don't think that EG's performance has been outstanding. He has had an awesome year numbers wise( with the exception of the int. #'s, wich is part of my problem, only part). And I am not saying that he hasn't improved, but he has not completely matured.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

morphius
12-15-2000, 12:34 PM
Raiderhader - I wasn't really talking for you, just entertaining myself at an old arguements expense. Sorry about that.

I think Gannon's RB's go a long way in his improved form, their ability to make a catch and then a good run after they get it in their hands has made him look better then he is. If you cover his RB and don't give him anywhere to run, you can literally watch him begin to panick, it is pretty funny to watch.

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 12:39 PM
RH, I see. Well, I can't make a believer out of everybody. You know what they say "Don't discuss politics, religeon, or football"

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:40 PM
mlyonsd, I have a problem with it because of the reason I stated, I am by nature very loyal. That showed no loyality to his team. Now I have no problem with him doing that in private, that is what a leader is supposed to do, but not in public. That looks like he is pointing fingers and passing the blame. Again, not unforgivable, but I have yet to see him redeem himself.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

[This message has been edited by raiderhader (edited 12-15-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:43 PM
Bishop, then why bother coming to this board? :) I would love to stay and chat, but I really should be doing school. Parents are out so I thought I would get on the board and see what was going on. While the cats away, the mice will play! :D Talk to you all later.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

mlyonsd
12-15-2000, 12:44 PM
RH, I have seen plenty of dropped passes this year and I can't remember one play where Grbac showed any emotion when it happened.

I imagine I am wrong but there have been passes dropped where even I would curse and Elvis wouldn't.

IMHO Elvis has turned into a leader.

morphius
12-15-2000, 12:44 PM
RH - I still consider that a weak reason not to like they guy, the finger pointing, in that game everyone was dropping everything and anything. The same thing happened in the game against Indy at the beginning of this season, only he didn't mention anyone. I know I was screaming in both games about the receievers inabilty to catch the ball, as I'm sure you were, why would it bother me that Grbac agreed? Also when Gonzo said that it didn't bother him that Grbac named him and that his family was going to give him more slack then Elvis, it became a real nonissue, IMO.

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:50 PM
OK, I was going to leave but, Morph it doesn't matter that I agreed with him. The point is he did it in public and not in private the way it should be done. My younger brother plays HS fB, and I asked him if that is something that he would take lightly. Absolutely not. That is not the way you treat your teammates. As for Gonzo, I am glad to see that he is such a class act. He could have made the situation worse, but instead he diffused it. Good for him.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

DaWolf
12-15-2000, 12:50 PM
You know, I asked this question on the other board and no one responded and the thread died right there. Had Pete Stoyanovich done his job last year and Elvis went to the playoffs at 10-6 and division winner on a team that for all intents and purposes was mediocre, and Richard Gannon was going home at 7-9, would that have really changed anyone's perceptions on who was the better QB? Does being the better QB depend on whether other people do their jobs too? Is one guy worse than another because the kicker didn't do his job? Why is it Grbac's fault for being a bad quarterback after he makes a couple of mistakes that may have cost us a few games this year, while Gannon who made critical mistakes in at least 4 losses last year was faultless and it was the fault of other players around him that they didn't win?

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:53 PM
OK, one other thing, mlyonsd, I am not sure that I would call that being a leader. I would have been up in thier faces telling them to pull thier collective heads out, and get in gear. That is being a leader IMHO.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

morphius
12-15-2000, 12:55 PM
RH - Sorry to keep you on longer, but I also seem to remember a quote from Grbac saying that is how things were done in SanFran, remember he was behind both Montana and Young, and that he didn't think it would be made into that big of a deal, and that it was also a mistake to have said it.

Now I know there are other reasons you don't like him, and some I can understand, but like I said, I consider this one pretty weak.

morphius
12-15-2000, 12:57 PM
RH - #66, then the fans blame him for calling out the player on the field, he is really in a catch 22 here in KC. I have seen people cussing at him for doing that exact same thing.

DaWolf
12-15-2000, 12:58 PM
When Grbac did that in the past (IE going up to the reciever and angrily pointing out the correct route) he was ripped left and right for "showing up his recievers" even though I countered that Marino did the exact same thing. What he does now is what he did with Morris in the last game, IE instead of reacting after an INT, he goes over to Morris on the sideline and they discuss the route and how it should be done the next time and pat each other on the head and move on...

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 12:59 PM
DaWolf, would it have changed my mind about EG? No, for reasons previously stated in this topic. If I had been faiduhs fan (GOD FORBID!) I would have blamed Gannon when he screwed up. Pure and simple. I don't just find one guy and make him my whippin' post, I go after whom ever is at fault. I am an Equal Oppurtunity Butt Chewer. :)

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

ChiTown
12-15-2000, 01:01 PM
All I have to say is that no other QB does more with less of a running game than EG. Just think of what our sucess would have been if he had had some assemblence of a ground game.

DaWolf
12-15-2000, 01:02 PM
Morph,
IE the San Diego game, when Lonnie "let me get a closer look at those, officer" Johnson clearly ran the wrong route and the INT was thrown, and Grbac reacted to Johnson's mental breakdown on the field, all I heard was whining about why Grbac couldn't accept blame like a man and he was always trying to blame his recievers. Of course Lonnie and his mental breakdowns and stone hands are long gone...

[This message has been edited by DaWolf (edited 12-15-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-15-2000, 01:05 PM
Morph, DaWolf, I would disagree with those who say he is showing up his receivers. He is doing his job. If a correction needs to be made it should be made. And I do belive that there is a difference between calling them out on the field and calling them out after the game. Big difference IMHO.

Also Morph, as I said in previous post loyality is of the utmost importance to me. Now am I being to hard? Possibly, ok probaly, but that is the kind of thing that sticks in my crawl.

------------------
WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

morphius
12-15-2000, 01:12 PM
Wolf - Exactly, he is the only QB in the league whose teams fans would rip him for something like that. He practically needs a PR guy to come out and give interviews for him because no matter he will be trashed.

RH - Fair enough, though I still think it is weak :)

Running games worse then KC's
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Arizona
<LI>Carolina
<LI>Atlanta
<LI>Cleveland
<LI>San Diego</UL>
Some pretty good company there.

mlyonsd
12-15-2000, 01:12 PM
RH, it sounds to me like your mind is made up.

DaWolf
12-15-2000, 01:14 PM
Raiderhader,
I agree and Elvis agrees that the way he handled the "I can't throw it and catch it" comment was not handled properly, although really he was right. Those dudes were dropping those things left and right, and really they still are. But really, that's the way things go all over the NFL. In SF for example, Jerry Rice and Steve Young were always telling or talking about how other guys needed to step up their game right to reporters, and not even a second thought was given to it. Gannon last year called out his teammates for not studying and preparing as hard as he did and for being lazy, and not a second thought was given to it. Marino, Esiason, these guys have all done it. Elvis is in a tough situation because the town hates him, and he can't say anything without it being scrutinized and ripped by people who are looking for reasons to rip him. He's in a tough position of not only trying to win his teammates over as a leader, but trying to stay out of the controversy in the local media. So he has toned it down big time from when he first got here and has not said anything critical in front of reporters...

bishop_74
12-15-2000, 02:27 PM
I think that is part of my defense too... he really hasn't made any more mistakes than other QB's in the league, again including the league leaders, but has been called out for those mistakes, again, unlike the other QB's. I feel for the poor dude, he is REALLY giving his best effort and it seems to be in vain. I guess that comes with the HUGE salary and team spotlight though. You can fart... just don't let anyone else smell it.