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Rain Man
08-17-2006, 01:36 PM
I'm torn on cases like these. These guys really messed up the lives of two innocent people, and they did it through an intentional and stupid act. However, they probably didn't intend to cause serious harm to others and just made a horribly, horribly bad decision.

As for the football thing, that's just dumb. Would the judge have let them go through the concert season if they were in band?

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5880524?FSO1&ATT=HCP&GT1=8485

McKinley postpones prep athletes' punishment
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Associated Press
Posted: 5 hours ago



KENTON, Ohio - A judge decided two high school athletes can complete the football season this fall before they serve 60-day jail sentences for a car crash caused by a decoy deer placed in a country road. Two teens were injured.

"I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm going to. I see positive things about participating in football," Judge Gary McKinley said Tuesday.
Dailyn Campbell, a 16-year-old quarterback for Kenton High, and 17-year-old teammate Jesse Howard will serve their time in a juvenile detention center. They were also ordered to write a 500-word essay titled "Why I Should Think Before I Act."

Last November, teens stole the decoy from a man's home, created a base to help it stand upright because it had only two legs, and then drove up and down the road, watching as drivers swerved to avoid it, prosecutor Brad Bailey said. He said Howard did not stop the prank.

Robert Roby Jr. crashed his car into a pole and broke his neck, collarbone, arm and leg. His passenger, Dustin Zachariah, suffered brain damage, Bailey said.

Campbell and Howard pleaded no contest to vehicular vandalism and other charges. Three other teenagers are awaiting trial in the fall.

"None of these guys will ever know what our sons have gone through," Roby's mother, Mary, wrote to the court. "If they get nothing for what they've done, they'll do something worse later. They need more than a slap on the wrist."

Both Campbell and Howard apologized at their sentencing.

"I think every day that I hurt someone, and that hurts me inside," Howard said.

Mr. Laz
08-17-2006, 01:39 PM
tough one ..... when a prank goes wrong



i did some stuff when i was younger that could of gone very wrong too ... i didn't think about either.

tyton75
08-17-2006, 01:39 PM
I would tend to agree with the Judge on this one

JBucc
08-17-2006, 01:42 PM
Since nobody died they should serve their sentences now and not be allowed to play football for this year.

Moooo
08-17-2006, 01:43 PM
tough one ..... when a prank goes wrong

i did some stuff when i was younger that could of gone very wrong too ... i didn't think about either.

My question is, what was supposed to happen? You put something very big in the middle of a road, people are gonna freak. I probably would have done something like this in my younger days (the thought definitely crossed my mind more than once), but it doesn't make sense to me anymore...

I say 60 might even be too little considering the guy has permanant brain damage. I'd go with 90, so they have to graduate late, not play football, or anything like that.

Moooo

Fish
08-17-2006, 01:44 PM
60 day jail sentence is pretty fair IMO. If I were judge, I'd give them 90 or so, but I sure as hell wouldn't have let them play football. Even if they didn't intend to cause serious harm, it happened.

Rain Man
08-17-2006, 01:45 PM
I'd learn more toward 6 months in the hole, and then make them pay the injured kids for some considerable period of time, depending on how permanent their injuries are.

Screw the football. It's ludicrous that this judge is letting them postpone their punishment so they can have fun. I'm betting that the kids with the broken neck and brain injuries aren't getting to postpone their rehab.

Mr. Laz
08-17-2006, 01:45 PM
make them help take care of the people they injured too.


if the people accepted that anyway ... if not maybe make them volunteer at hospital or therapy place where people recover from car accidents etc. to drive the point home.

JBucc
08-17-2006, 01:45 PM
I also think if this coach lets them back on his team he should be fired.

htismaqe
08-17-2006, 01:47 PM
Just a comment regarding poll option #5 - 60 days or less, but let them play football - No sense in punishing the team.

That's all the MORE reason to NOT let them play football.

Peer pressure is a powerful motivator. Perhaps punishing the entire team will spur these kids to police themselves...

Predarat
08-17-2006, 01:48 PM
WOW-this is a tough question because thinking back on my younger days I could have caused something similar. I loved to play practicle jokes but sometimes didnt think them all the way through before I did them. I probably would have done something like that to scare someone and maybe make them slam on their brakes. We used to steal road signs and those yellow ights with sensors that only come on when its dark. But im voting 60 days to a year.

Rain Man
08-17-2006, 01:50 PM
I also think if this coach lets them back on his team he should be fired.

That's a very good point. We should start an e-mail campaign to the school district.

Fire Me Boy!
08-17-2006, 01:51 PM
I say they're 16... meaning they are old enough to think about their actions... meaning they should be treated as adults. Let's say for a moment they were 35. What's your reaction then?

Rain Man
08-17-2006, 01:55 PM
I don't know. I was book-smart when I was 16, but I was still stupid enough that I could've done something like this. Sixteen year-olds don't always think things through.

Mr. Laz
08-17-2006, 01:55 PM
WOW-this is a tough question because thinking back on my younger days I could have caused something similar. I loved to play practicle jokes but sometimes didnt think them all the way through before I did them. I probably would have done something like that to scare someone and maybe make them slam on their brakes. We used to steal road signs and those yellow ights with sensors that only come on when its dark. But im voting 60 days to a year.
yep ...

one time we took prolly a dozen construction sawhorses with the flashing yellow light, collecting them up and put them in the back of a pickup.

Then we barricaded a girl's(knew in high school) driveway completely up. ROFL


but if you think about it, we also blocked half the street up. What would of happened if some car would of swerved to miss all those signs and hit a tree?

could of happened .......


young and dumb i t'was :(

MOhillbilly
08-17-2006, 01:56 PM
they should do real time. in my mind its no diffrent from assault.

5 years or more.

Moooo
08-17-2006, 01:57 PM
I don't know. I was book-smart when I was 16, but I was still stupid enough that I could've done something like this. Sixteen year-olds almost never think things through.

I fixed your post for you :)

Moooo

eazyb81
08-17-2006, 02:00 PM
60 days? Jeez, I don't know about that.

They may not have meant to cause this much harm (although that is up for argument), but they were old enough to know right from wrong. This was an extremely dumb "prank" that ended up ruining the lives of two kids and their families.

I say at least a year, but that still doesn't seem like enough to me. Obviously they didn't think ahead, but that doesn't absolve them of punishment.

Now that I think about it, 5 years sounds about right.

htismaqe
08-17-2006, 02:01 PM
yep ...

one time we took prolly a dozen construction sawhorses with the flashing yellow light, collecting them up and put them in the back of a pickup.

Then we barricaded a girl's(knew in high school) driveway completely up. ROFL


but if you think about it, we also blocked half the street up. What would of happened if some car would of swerved to miss all those signs and hit a tree?

could of happened .......


young and dumb i t'was :(

We used to put strips of aluminum foil in 2-liter bottles, add The Works toilet bowl cleaner, and then screw the lid on tight...

Nowadays, that kinda shit can get you a felony terrorism charge...

Hydrae
08-17-2006, 02:10 PM
make them help take care of the people they injured too.


if the people accepted that anyway ... if not maybe make them volunteer at hospital or therapy place where people recover from car accidents etc. to drive the point home.

Exactly! :thumb:

Several people have already admitted this could have happened to them. Just because these kids (and the injured ones as well) were unlucky in how the prank worked out, that is no reason to ruin the rest of their lives. It will serve no purpose at all and won't help those who got hurt.

I think the punishment should be a combination of several things:

A) No football this year! The judge is way wrong here.
B) Some form of financial restitution to the families to offset medical costs due to the actions of these young men (not from Mom and Dad either, this needs to be money they earn on their own to help enforce consequences for actions).
C) Some form of community service directly related to the results of the prank. Preferrably helping care for the injured boys but if the families are not comfortable with that, then working with similarily hurt people at a local hospital/rehab site.

Putting them in jail does not teach them the lessons the above actions would and will cost tax payers money. In the above actions, the lesson is learned, the community gains something (the community service side) while it not costing the tax payers anything more. Sounds win-win to me.

MOhillbilly
08-17-2006, 02:17 PM
We used to put strips of aluminum foil in 2-liter bottles, add The Works toilet bowl cleaner, and then screw the lid on tight...

Nowadays, that kinda shit can get you a felony terrorism charge...

man you sure our paths havent crossed?

htismaqe
08-17-2006, 02:24 PM
man you sure our paths havent crossed?

Not sure we'd want to admit it if they have. It might be incriminating to one or both of us. :D

tyton75
08-17-2006, 02:33 PM
Bet the guy who crashed his car was on his freaking cell phone not paying attention... he got what he deserved!!


j/k :)

rageeumr
08-17-2006, 02:39 PM
I grew up in the country, so I had to do stupid crap like this to keep me entertained. I remember one time we put a Road Closed sign in a road right after the crest of a particularly aggressive hill. The difference was we weren't stupid enough to drive by again until the next day to see the thing laying in the ditch. I think about that now and I would be SO PISSED if some little shit did that.....

Calcountry
08-17-2006, 02:51 PM
I think 30 days as an assistant to the Coroner, followed up with 30 days as an assistant embalmer.

I think that would make them think about what they did better than anything.

Calcountry
08-17-2006, 02:54 PM
yep ...

one time we took prolly a dozen construction sawhorses with the flashing yellow light, collecting them up and put them in the back of a pickup.

Then we barricaded a girl's(knew in high school) driveway completely up. ROFL


but if you think about it, we also blocked half the street up. What would of happened if some car would of swerved to miss all those signs and hit a tree?

could of happened .......


young and dumb i t'was :(So what has changed, your age? :p

BucEyedPea
08-17-2006, 02:55 PM
The rack!

Tatertot13
08-17-2006, 02:58 PM
Shove a red hot fire poker into their rectum's. Yeah, that'll teach 'em.

StcChief
08-17-2006, 03:53 PM
60 days no football

DJ's left nut
08-17-2006, 03:57 PM
"Stupid" isn't a defense.

A) That's flat out mean-spirited. If nothing else I'm sure the fact that it could cause a minor accident crossed their minds...they disregarded it.

B) WTF did these numbnuts think was going to happen? They put a freakin' Deer in the middle of the road! You hit a deer square enough and it can total the car, they cause all kinds of fatalities annually, of course people are going to swerve and swerve violently to avoid it

Nail 'em with 2nd degree manslaughter charges and give them 5 years in the clink.

Drunk drivers don't mean to kill people either...

Garcia Bronco
08-17-2006, 03:59 PM
I think they should get 5 years of hard labor.

Hydrae
08-17-2006, 04:04 PM
"Stupid" isn't a defense.

A) That's flat out mean-spirited. If nothing else I'm sure the fact that it could cause a minor accident crossed their minds...they disregarded it.

B) WTF did these numbnuts think was going to happen? They put a freakin' Deer in the middle of the road! You hit a deer square enough and it can total the car, they cause all kinds of fatalities annually, of course people are going to swerve and swerve violently to avoid it

Nail 'em with 2nd degree manslaughter charges and give them 5 years in the clink.

Drunk drivers don't mean to kill people either...

So you would ruin their lives for a stupid teen prank? I am not a lawyer (thank you, Lord! :) ) but I believe you are talking about a felony. Ask around about what that does to thier lives. No voting, no gun ownership, difficulty getting a job.

Was what they did wrong and stupid? Absolutely. But, as evidenced in some of the responses on this thread, that is nearly universal to teenage males. Thankfully, most of us did not wind up hurting someone as happened here. But I can not see ruining their life over this.

boogblaster
08-17-2006, 04:06 PM
16 yr old boys usually have problems with thinking straight...but they kind of when over board.. so I guess punishment should also carry time with the injured...they will learn from this and thats all you can ask....BOOG.....

DJ's left nut
08-17-2006, 05:01 PM
So you would ruin their lives for a stupid teen prank? I am not a lawyer (thank you, Lord! :) ) but I believe you are talking about a felony. Ask around about what that does to thier lives. No voting, no gun ownership, difficulty getting a job.

Was what they did wrong and stupid? Absolutely. But, as evidenced in some of the responses on this thread, that is nearly universal to teenage males. Thankfully, most of us did not wind up hurting someone as happened here. But I can not see ruining their life over this.

First I have to backpeddle a little bit, they didn't actually kill anyone, so manslaughter is out of the question, my mistake.. But had they actually killed someone, under Ohio law, that's involuntary manslaughter, and yes that would be a third degree felony. But under those circumstances, I'd still do it.

As it is, I'd go after felonious assault. This wasn't a cheeky little prank. This was an act whose natural and probable consequence was to cause serious injury. Sorry, but this is beyond childish stunt. At best, it was grossly negligent, but more likely it was flat out malicous.

Again, the drunk driving analogy is not directly on point, but close enough for comparison's sake.

People drive over the legal limit all the time, yet I'd imagine that the a fairly low % of those people actually end up in an accident. Yet nobody has any interest in letting drunk drivers off the hook when they get hammered and then kill somebody b/c they clearly didn't mean to do it. Would you be interested in letting a 16 year old go for DWI and causing a fatality? They'd be equally young and stupid.

In this case, putting the freakin' deer in the middle of the road is every bit as likely, if not more likely, to cause serious injury. Whether or not these kids thought about that (and you'll have a hard time convincing me that the thought of causing injury never crossed their mind) is immaterial, IMO.

When something is this egregiously stupid, you have to hold those responsible for it accountable. This ruined 2 lives, and while I'm not a fan of using results to determine consequences, the results in this case were all to predictable. For that reason alone I have no problem letting these kids feel the full brunt of the legal system.

trndobrd
08-17-2006, 05:07 PM
A one year jail sentence, serve 30 days immediately. Followed by 2 years probation (with the remaining 11 months of jail time as a motivator to straighten up). Condition of probabation is they spend 15 hours per week assisting in a local hospital trauma unit or rehab center. Grades must remain above 2.5gpa or they can do some studying down at county lockup. No drugs, no alcohol (probation officer conducts random breath and urine tests).

BucEyedPea
08-17-2006, 05:13 PM
The rack!

chiefqueen
08-17-2006, 05:24 PM
The article I reading on CNN.com stated one of the boy's fathers grounded him from everything (incl. being able to participate in sports) and took away his driver's license.

So if he's already grounded from playing football why he is not in jail?

Also, at that stage in high school students frequently write papers longer than 500 words. I think I would have gone with a 5,000 word essay, handwritten, with perfect penmenship and grammar before I would allow that portion of the sentence to be satisfied.

Hydrae
08-17-2006, 05:31 PM
First I have to backpeddle a little bit, they didn't actually kill anyone, so manslaughter is out of the question, my mistake.. But had they actually killed someone, under Ohio law, that's involuntary manslaughter, and yes that would be a third degree felony. But under those circumstances, I'd still do it.

As it is, I'd go after felonious assault. This wasn't a cheeky little prank. This was an act whose natural and probable consequence was to cause serious injury. Sorry, but this is beyond childish stunt. At best, it was grossly negligent, but more likely it was flat out malicous.

Again, the drunk driving analogy is not directly on point, but close enough for comparison's sake.

People drive over the legal limit all the time, yet I'd imagine that the a fairly low % of those people actually end up in an accident. Yet nobody has any interest in letting drunk drivers off the hook when they get hammered and then kill somebody b/c they clearly didn't mean to do it. Would you be interested in letting a 16 year old go for DWI and causing a fatality? They'd be equally young and stupid.

In this case, putting the freakin' deer in the middle of the road is every bit as likely, if not more likely, to cause serious injury. Whether or not these kids thought about that (and you'll have a hard time convincing me that the thought of causing injury never crossed their mind) is immaterial, IMO.

When something is this egregiously stupid, you have to hold those responsible for it accountable. This ruined 2 lives, and while I'm not a fan of using results to determine consequences, the results in this case were all to predictable. For that reason alone I have no problem letting these kids feel the full brunt of the legal system.

Thank you for the well thought out response. However, I do not see what the purpose of jailing these kids would be. Do you think it would keep other teens from doing equally stupid things? Will it do anything to help the injured kids or their families?

Or will this just create two more people who will have a difficult time at best in becoming contributing members of society? How much will it cost the tax payers to punish them in this manner? I just don't see the upside in jailing them (edit) for an extended period of time (/edit). It sounds to me like simple retribution, nearly revenge.

DJ's left nut
08-17-2006, 06:07 PM
There you get into differing theories as to the role of the legal system.

If you believe in the retributive model, then they're in jail as punishment.

If you believe in the restorative model, you believe they're in there to become better people.

I'm in the former camp. I think they need to pay the penalty for their acts. I'm not terribly concerned with how much it does to deter others from doing it or whether or not it makes them a better person.

At that point you get into pure philosphical differences, and if you're on the other side of the fence, so be it. I see where you're coming from, I'm just not persuaded by it. I see the stigma as being an ongoing part of their punishment.

However, even if I did believe in the restorative model or the idea of general deterrence, you can be sure that those kids spending 5 years in lockup will have a much greater impact on their peer group than writing a 2 page 'essay' and hanging out at Juvie.