PDA

View Full Version : How can "vanilla" be the excuse?


el borracho
08-17-2006, 09:00 PM
Aren't the other teams running "vanilla" schemes in the preseason, also? I'm no expert but I'd say the problem is our lineman. Someone explain why their vanilla is so much better than ours.

tk13
08-17-2006, 09:02 PM
They aren't being vanilla. Look at how many bootlegs and misdirections and end arounds and reverses we've faced. And the Giants were much more aggressive at blitzing on defense, while we sat back and didn't show much defensively.

Now, that's not to say we'll be good or bad when the season starts, but I think we're definitely more "vanilla" than our opponents so far.

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:03 PM
No, I don't believe the teams we have played are running vanilla...esp the Texans.

stevieray
08-17-2006, 09:08 PM
The last time the Giants were on that field, they got blanked 23-0.

Coupled with Coughlins ego, and there you go.

We still have to play better.

BigRock
08-17-2006, 09:09 PM
You don't start the game by running a reverse if you're trying to be vanilla.

tk13
08-17-2006, 09:10 PM
We also haven't done any shifting, motion on offense.

I can understand why people are concerned about the D, but I don't know about the O. We always do this. We just aren't showing any motion, shifting, any of the actual things we do.

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:12 PM
That soft zone is not going to be played every play this year...

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:16 PM
I'm sorry guys, misdirections and end arounds are basic parts of an offense. It's not a trick play, it's in the basic offensive playbook.

I'm embarrassed to be a Chiefs fan after reading things like this. You guys should be more upset that the defense can't defend rather than crying about how the Giants didn't play nice.

stevieray
08-17-2006, 09:18 PM
I'm embarrassed to be a Chiefs fan after reading things like this.

ROFL

BigRock
08-17-2006, 09:19 PM
I'm sorry guys, misdirections and end arounds are basic parts of an offense. It's not a trick play, it's in the basic offensive playbook.
How many have the Chiefs run?

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:20 PM
I'm sorry guys, misdirections and end arounds are basic parts of an offense. It's not a trick play, it's in the basic offensive playbook.

I'm embarrassed to be a Chiefs fan after reading things like this. You guys should be more upset that the defense can't defend rather than crying about how the Giants didn't play nice.
The only person crying is you about your status as a Chiefs fan. We are just stating what we saw.

Tell me that reverse play is vanilla.

Fish
08-17-2006, 09:20 PM
I'm embarrassed to be a Chiefs fan after reading things like this. You guys should be more upset that the defense can't defend rather than crying about how the Giants didn't play nice.

Seriously dude.... it's still preseason.... put down the pill bottle....

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:21 PM
ROFL

Yep, it sure is funny isn't it.....continue to act like what I said isn't true. Cry about how the Giants didn't play nice rather than the shitty defense and how ****in stupid they are that they can't defend basic misdirection plays.

tk13
08-17-2006, 09:21 PM
I'm sorry guys, misdirections and end arounds are basic parts of an offense. It's not a trick play, it's in the basic offensive playbook.

I'm embarrassed to be a Chiefs fan after reading things like this. You guys should be more upset that the defense can't defend rather than crying about how the Giants didn't play nice.
I think you need to relax. Did you see us out there running any end arounds or anything out there?

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 09:22 PM
Reverses are a standard NFL play now and it is not a trick play. Hell the Chiefs run between 1-2 every game.

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:23 PM
I like how you guys either missed the point of my post or chose to ignore it....it still doesn't change the facts though.

cdcox
08-17-2006, 09:25 PM
That soft zone is not going to be played every play this year...

I don't know, we sure saw ahellalot of it last year. I'm pretty sure I could get a first down as a WR against it. My understanding of the the cover-2 is to keep everything in front of the secondary and then just plaster the crap out of the reciever when they try to catch it. At least that is the way I saw it ran in Tampa. I'm still waiting for the plaster the crap out of the reciever bit. I'm 99.9% sure we will run a soft zone against 3rd and 5 or less some time during the eseason. I don]t understand why you would do that. Ever.

stevieray
08-17-2006, 09:25 PM
Yep, it sure is funny isn't it....

Yes, claiming that others that aren't freaking out like you are makes you embarrassed to be Chiefs fan is amusing to me.

Very.

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:26 PM
Nobody is crying about it....we are just stating. We were very vanilla. They were not. Thats how it was on the field of play. I have no problem with NY's choice to play like that. Lets just call it what it is.

I don't know what is so hard to comprehend there.

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:28 PM
Obviously people think because the Chiefs didn't do it.......it's obviously a trick play. Basic misdirection plays like reverses are standard practice in preseason now regardless of where the Chiefs do them or not.

It doesn't matter if the Chiefs run them or not, the point is the defense can't defend basic misdirection plays. Hell basic offensive players for that matter a reverse is a basic play now.

Everyone assumes the offense will put up points that isn't the question, the defense looked brutal though, vanilla or not. Blitzing and stunts will only cover up so much but if you can't pick up basic assignments like shooting a gap in a vanilla defense or holding point wide on a reverse to force them to cut back in, well your shit out of luck.

Schemes and packages only cover up so much you have to make plays......

tk13
08-17-2006, 09:28 PM
I didn't even say it was a good or bad strategy. Just that we were definitely being more vanilla than the other team. I don't think that's even debatable. I guess you can call reverses, all that, "basic" offense. And that's fine. But if you are, we still didn't do any of that stuff. We were more vanilla. I don't know why that makes any of us stupid fans, people are just being overdramatic.

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 09:29 PM
Nobody is crying about it....we are just stating. We were very vanilla. They were not. Thats how it was on the field of play. I have no problem with NY's choice to play like that. Lets just call it what it is.

I don't know what is so hard to comprehend there.

I don't care about the outcome of the game but we have not shown hardly any positive signs in either of our games. Hell Herm and some of the players just said that as well.

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:30 PM
So you have to run a trick play or it is considered not vanilla?

Amazing.

Unless they run the annexation of puerto rico then it is vanilla per Mecca.

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:30 PM
I don't care about the outcome of the game but we have not shown hardly any positive signs in either of our games. Hell Herm and some of the players just said that as well.
I totally agree

OldTownChief
08-17-2006, 09:30 PM
I couldn't care less about winning or loseing a preseason game but these guys looked slow and way out of shape.

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:31 PM
I didn't even say it was a good or bad strategy. Just that we were definitely being more vanilla than the other team. I don't think that's even debatable. I guess you can call reverses, all that, "basic" offense. And that's fine. But if you are, we still didn't do any of that stuff. We were more vanilla. I don't know why that makes any of us stupid fans, people are just being overdramatic.

That's fine but the defense should show some ability to defend those plays, preseason or not.

This team has shown 0 bright spots so far. I don't have near the faith to just say oh they'll be ok when they all look horrible.

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 09:31 PM
So you have to run a trick play or it is considered not vanilla?

Amazing.

Unless they run the annexation of puerto rico then it is vanilla per Mecca.

Zach reverses are not trick plays. Heck I think you see one in every NFL game by both teams. It is a standard NFL playcall now.

BigRock
08-17-2006, 09:32 PM
Obviously people think because the Chiefs didn't do it.......it's obviously a trick play.
Obviously.

I'd like to see where anyone in this thread made the claim that the Giants or Texans were running "trick plays".

|Zach|
08-17-2006, 09:32 PM
Zach reverses are not trick plays. Heck I think you see one in every NFL game by both teams. It is a standard NFL playcall now. That is my point.
I am not saying its a trick play.

I am also saying it isnt vanilla.

There is space in between those two things.

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 09:34 PM
That is my point.
I am not saying its a trick play.

I am also saying it isnt vanilla.

There is space in between those two things.

Gotcha. Thanks. :thumb:

el borracho
08-17-2006, 09:34 PM
Besides the one reverse, what did the Giants do offensively that would not be considered "vanilla"?

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:36 PM
I thought the Giants were pretty basic really, Tom Coughlins an offensive coach and I didn't see any non basic stuff from them.

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 09:38 PM
Besides the one reverse, what did the Giants do offensively that would not be considered "vanilla"?

Yep. The D flat out sucked and is not looking any better than last year.

OldTownChief
08-17-2006, 09:38 PM
So will we come out of our "vanilla" defense and have the ability to stop a reverse or bootleg in game one?

Mecca
08-17-2006, 09:40 PM
So will we come out of our "vanilla" defense and have the ability to stop a reverse or bootleg in game one?

That is my point, even in a vanilla defense the players should be capable of defending a reverse and basic misdirection plays and well they aren't.

Garcia Bronco
08-17-2006, 09:40 PM
Vanilla is not an excuse...because the couldn't even excute the vanilla

Garcia Bronco
08-17-2006, 09:44 PM
Obviously people think because the Chiefs didn't do it.......it's obviously a trick play. Basic misdirection plays like reverses are standard practice in preseason now regardless of where the Chiefs do them or not.

It doesn't matter if the Chiefs run them or not, the point is the defense can't defend basic misdirection plays. Hell basic offensive players for that matter a reverse is a basic play now.

Everyone assumes the offense will put up points that isn't the question, the defense looked brutal though, vanilla or not. Blitzing and stunts will only cover up so much but if you can't pick up basic assignments like shooting a gap in a vanilla defense or holding point wide on a reverse to force them to cut back in, well your shit out of luck.

Schemes and packages only cover up so much you have to make plays......


Technically a counter play is a "trick" and "misdirection" so I agree with you

OldTownChief
08-17-2006, 09:45 PM
That is my point, even in a vanilla defense the players should be capable of defending a reverse and basic misdirection plays and well they aren't.


I agree, for the past 4-5 years as a spectator, when I see any type of misdirection of even play action I know a big play or easy 1st down is coming. We as fans of the Chiefs practically rub one out when they stop one, we are surprised and excited rather than expecting a stop. I just don't see any potential of that changing in these first two scrimmages.

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 09:45 PM
Vanilla is not an excuse...because the couldn't even excute the vanilla

ROFL

Sad but true

stevieray
08-17-2006, 09:45 PM
Vanilla is not an excuse...because the couldn't even excute the vanilla

kind of like the lack of execution in this post?

OldTownChief
08-17-2006, 09:50 PM
kind of like the lack of execution in this post?


ROFL
I almost posted something along those lines.

KevB
08-17-2006, 09:51 PM
I saw us blitz more than a handful of times, including that first drive when they marched down the field on us. We didn't stop anything.

Having said that, the world isn't about to end. We're still learning, coordinating the secondary with the front 7, etc. We'll be better. However, the DLine is going to kill us. Running the "Tampa 2" is fine if you have Simeon Rice to force quicker throws. Or Dwight Freeney. We have neither a pass rushing phenom or run stuffing D tackles, and that will be our downfall.

Cochise
08-17-2006, 09:52 PM
From what the defensive looks appeared to be, it was pretty vanilla in the back.

We did bring some blitzes and mix it up a little in the front, but the main problem was still no push up the middle.

The preseason is only halfway over.

HipHopper4Life
08-17-2006, 09:52 PM
Vanilla, not vanilla, who cares? That the Giants ran a reverse or two doesn't take away from the fact that we got our asses kicked in very basic football situations. Their DE's ran unimpeded into our backfield. Our D-line got blown off the ball. We didn't block, we didn't tackle.

Preseason or not, that we haven't shown the ability to perform even the basic football skills at a satisfactory level should disturb even the most optimistic Chief fan.

Garcia Bronco
08-17-2006, 09:57 PM
Vanilla, not vanilla, who cares? That the Giants ran a reverse or two doesn't take away from the fact that we got our asses kicked in very basic football situations. Their DE's ran unimpeded into our backfield. Our D-line got blown off the ball. We didn't block, we didn't tackle.

Preseason or not, that we haven't shown the ability to perform even the basic football skills at a satisfactory level should disturb even the most optimistic Chief fan.

Exactly...with 10 minutes left in the game...the KC offenses collectively had not gain 100 yards. That's tough

big nasty kcnut
08-17-2006, 09:57 PM
It's preseason so i doubt that we have all audible movement or other stuff in. As far as the defense they keeping most of their set secret.

Garcia Bronco
08-17-2006, 09:59 PM
kind of like the lack of execution in this post?


Kinda

Halfcan
08-17-2006, 09:59 PM
We played "Tooty Fruity" instead of Vanilla.

dirk digler
08-17-2006, 10:00 PM
Vanilla, not vanilla, who cares? That the Giants ran a reverse or two doesn't take away from the fact that we got our asses kicked in very basic football situations. Their DE's ran unimpeded into our backfield. Our D-line got blown off the ball. We didn't block, we didn't tackle.

Preseason or not, that we haven't shown the ability to perform even the basic football skills at a satisfactory level should disturb even the most optimistic Chief fan.

Yep great post.

el borracho
08-17-2006, 10:03 PM
Besides the one reverse, what did the Giants do offensively that would not be considered "vanilla"?
Can someone please ignore all the bitching and freaking out and answer this question?

Guru
08-17-2006, 10:04 PM
I like how you guys either missed the point of my post or chose to ignore it....it still doesn't change the facts though.


We all know the Chiefs are just playing it close to the vest because they are goint to just annihilate teams in the regular season with a WIDE open offense and a devistating D.
































At least in a dream.......