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Deberg_1990
08-18-2006, 01:26 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15300666.htm

IT ISN’T TOUGH TO SEE THAT THIS TEAM IS SOFT


AST RUTHERFORD, N.J. | - EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. | We shouldn’t be surprised that three weeks into Camp Herm, the Chiefs still look soft.

It’s pretty difficult to instill toughness into a defense Dick Vermeil ignored for five years when training camp is a giant pillow fight with practices shorter than most yoga classes.

The players love Camp Herm, but it’s very debatable whether coach Herm Edwards’ abbreviated, light-contact practices are what this team needed this year. Based on the last few years, Kansas City’s defenders needed to be enrolled in remedial tackling courses.

Marty Schottenheimer’s barbaric Oklahoma Drills seemed appropriate.

Evidence of the Chiefs’ overall softness was in full display at Giants Stadium Thursday night in a 17-0 preseason loss. Kansas City’s defense looks just as soft as it did a year ago when Tiki Barber ran wild on the Chiefs in a regular-season game.

While some Chiefs defenders downplayed the significance of Thursday’s wretched performance, at least two Chiefs starters recognized it for what it was.

“It’s embarrassing,” defensive end Jared Allen said. “I think that’s the best way to describe it. I take it as a reality check.”

Middle linebacker Kawika Mitchell added, “Just a lot of talk and not enough performing.”

Maybe this will make Edwards rethink his soft approach with his soft team. Especially after watching the Giants’ first-teamers trample Kansas City’s starters in the first half.

The opening 30 minutes were tough to watch. New York’s defenders battered Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, pushing him to the safety of the bench after two unproductive series. Running back Larry Johnson failed to get on track, picking up just 8 yards on four carries. Offensive tackles Kevin Sampson and Kyle Turley struggled trying to keep Michael Strahan and Osi Umenyiora out of the backfield.

And, of course, the Giants offense did whatever it wanted to Kansas City’s defense. Eli Manning, facing absolutely zero pressure, completed 11 of 14 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown. Tiki Barber and Brandon Jacobs combined for 62 yards and one touchdown on 14 carries.

The Chiefs’ defensive front four was non-existent. If there’s a difference between defensive tackle combos Ron Edwards and James Reed, and Ryan Sims and Lional Dalton, you couldn’t recognize it Thursday night. All four stand at the line of scrimmage and chicken fight quite well.

Ends Jared Allen and Eric Hicks were equally ineffective.

Manning had plenty of time to throw, and he repeatedly threw underneath Kansas City’s soft coverage. High-priced corners Ty Law and Patrick Surtain won’t reroute many receivers when they line up 5 to 7 yards off the football.

You don’t want to make too much of preseason football. But it’s very fair to say this team is soft right now, and we shouldn’t be surprised.

Kansas City’s three toughest players from a year ago weren’t in uniform Thursday night and haven’t been a part of training camp. Willie Roaf retired. Brian Waters hurt his foot on the first day of camp. And Carl Peterson let Tony Richardson slip to Minnesota for a short end and an order of fries.

Roaf, Waters and Richardson never played defense, but that trio would make any team significantly tougher. Their personalities add toughness and confidence, two things in short supply with the Chiefs right now.

The Chiefs lack an identity. They’re transitioning from Vermeil’s high-flying, all-offense identity to Herm’s conservative, defensive approach.

The transition isn’t going smoothly. In fact, I’d say the Chiefs are having an identity crisis. Edwards can’t impose his identity on this team with an easy-on-the-body training camp.

He’s in a difficult spot. He isn’t taking over a team in a rebuilding mode. First-year coaches are supposed to crack heads and run guys off just to make a point, just to impose their will. A first-year coach in a rebuilding situation gets to shape a team in his own image.

Not Herm. He has to win now with someone else’s players, and he has to pamper veteran players who were overworked by Vermeil.

Good luck with that. It’s a recipe for chaos. The Chiefs let their strongest locker-room presence walk (Richardson). Their most physical player is nursing an injury (Waters). And their most important player (Roaf) decided he’d rather eat his mama’s gumbo this fall.

Meanwhile, Ryan Sims would much rather swap gumbo recipes with Roaf’s mama than go to war with offensive linemen, and KC’s defensive front remains a major weakness. In the first quarter, the Chiefs blitzed repeatedly and still couldn’t get pressure on Manning.

It’s too early to panic and write this team off. It’s the preseason, and KC’s game plans have been awfully vanilla. But the more I watch the Chiefs the more I understand why Edwards and Peterson won’t give up on the dream of Roaf returning

Spicy McHaggis
08-18-2006, 01:43 AM
So the defense sucking is a residual effect of the Vermeil era and his coaching style? Or is it because of Roaf, Waters and TRich not being here? Or is it because Herm can't give the team an identity? Jason kinda went all over with this one and none of his reasons are really adequately supported.

Deberg_1990
08-18-2006, 01:57 AM
So the defense sucking is a residual effect of the Vermeil era and his coaching style? Or is it because of Roaf, Waters and TRich not being here? Or is it because Herm can't give the team an identity? Jason kinda went all over with this one and none of his reasons are really adequately supported.

All of the above,


plus Sims/Siavii/Edwards/Reed/Wilkerson/Dalton/Hicks all suck.

Rudy lost the toss
08-18-2006, 02:08 AM
I'm glad he pointed out Allen's poor play.

Deberg_1990
08-18-2006, 02:15 AM
IMO one of the teams biggest problems if not the biggest is the players have acted as if they are the Super Bowl champs since 2003. This my friends might be the most telling statement of all from Herm:

“Right now, we’re a team, in my estimation, (that) is living off our laurels,” Edwards said. “We’re living off what people are predicting us to be.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15300951.htm


I just dont get where they got this attitude?? Peterson perhaps??

Guru
08-18-2006, 02:26 AM
So the defense sucking is a residual effect of the Vermeil era and his coaching style? Or is it because of Roaf, Waters and TRich not being here? Or is it because Herm can't give the team an identity? Jason kinda went all over with this one and none of his reasons are really adequately supported.


Well, in his defense, we here at the Planet didn't give him enough material to have a direction in that article either.

Mecca
08-18-2006, 02:44 AM
This team has no heart because we have far to many veterans that have been here forever and are fat and happy. With Vermiel they had nothing to worry about they could suck and still be on the team starting getting their money. Herm may be different but the attitude with the players isn't.....

Logical
08-18-2006, 02:56 AM
IMO one of the teams biggest problems if not the biggest is the players have acted as if they are the Super Bowl champs since 2003. This my friends might be the most telling statement of all from Herm:

“Right now, we’re a team, in my estimation, (that) is living off our laurels,” Edwards said. “We’re living off what people are predicting us to be.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15300951.htm


I just dont get where they got this attitude?? Peterson perhaps??

Whatcha talking about, they fill those seats what more could the fans want.

Guru
08-18-2006, 02:58 AM
Whatcha talking about, they fill those seats what more could the fans want.


Cheaper beer?

donkhater
08-18-2006, 04:43 AM
IMO one of the teams biggest problems if not the biggest is the players have acted as if they are the Super Bowl champs since 2003. This my friends might be the most telling statement of all from Herm:

“Right now, we’re a team, in my estimation, (that) is living off our laurels,” Edwards said. “We’re living off what people are predicting us to be.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15300951.htm


I just dont get where they got this attitude?? Peterson perhaps??
I don't get it either. Do you realize that if Detroit and Cincy actually win a playoff games this season our beloved Chiefs will have gone the longest without one? SAD.

Cochise
08-18-2006, 06:13 AM
I'm glad he pointed out Allen's poor play.

Yeah, I was noticing that. He didn't look good, not that anyone did.

King_Chief_Fan
08-18-2006, 06:19 AM
How long do you think LJ will want to play for a team like this?
when is his contract up?

KCFalcon59
08-18-2006, 06:33 AM
Cheaper beer?

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alphaman
08-18-2006, 06:43 AM
All of the above,


plus Sims/Siavii/Edwards/Reed/Wilkerson/Dalton/Hicks all suck.

I get your point. However, Wilkerson played very very well last night.

MOhillbilly
08-18-2006, 06:55 AM
KC played like an XFL team lastnight.

Pathetic.

The Starting DTs are so lazy theyre not even getting set in there stance till the ball is hiked.

im sorry but i dont believe that you can get a good push when your not set and i dont believe the coaching staff is doing a good enough job teaching in a way the players are grasping there positions.
It probably has less to do w/ camp and more to do w/ whats going on in the film room.

both sides looked out of place and overwhelmed.KC had guys doing 180s lastnight......

jidar
08-18-2006, 06:59 AM
I've never been one to read anything into preseason games, honestly. Success or failure at this point in the season has never impacted me in the least.
This time though, I'm nervous. There is a difference between not winning a preseason game, which sucks, and your starters getting absolutely mauled 2 games in a row, which more than sucks.

ck_IN
08-18-2006, 07:21 AM
<i>I just dont get where they got this attitude?? Peterson perhaps??</i>

That's a holdover from Dickie. No matter how badly they would screw up Dick would hug them and pat them on their heads and tell them how great they are. They've gotten to the point of believing it.

<i>How long do you think LJ will want to play for a team like this?
when is his contract up?</i>

I've been saying King Pink is gone as soon as he becomes a FA for awhile now. He gave a nice sideline interview last night but I'm betting he's on the other sideline in about 2 years.

eazyb81
08-18-2006, 07:31 AM
How long do you think LJ will want to play for a team like this?
when is his contract up?

I've been saying King Pink is gone as soon as he becomes a FA for awhile now. He gave a nice sideline interview last night but I'm betting he's on the other sideline in about 2 years.

I doubt that. If he keeps up this production, he will be franchised if he doesn't sign a new contract.

LJ better get used to KC, cause he's gonna be here for awhile.

jidar
08-18-2006, 07:31 AM
<i>I just dont get where they got this attitude?? Peterson perhaps??</i>

That's a holdover from Dickie. No matter how badly they would screw up Dick would hug them and pat them on their heads and tell them how great they are. They've gotten to the point of believing it.

<i>How long do you think LJ will want to play for a team like this?
when is his contract up?</i>

I've been saying King Pink is gone as soon as he becomes a FA for awhile now. He gave a nice sideline interview last night but I'm betting he's on the other sideline in about 2 years.


On the other hand. If the team sucked balls right before DV (which it did) and it again sucks balls right after he leaves (which it might).... we're going to say DV is the problem?
Unlikely.

jspchief
08-18-2006, 07:49 AM
I'm glad he pointed out Allen's poor play.

Eli Manning, facing absolutely zero pressure, completed 11 of 14 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown. It's not like Manning needed all day to throw the ball. His average completion was a hair over 7 yards. He was getting rid of the ball quickly, abusing the ridiculous soft coverage we were showing.

Out DEs didn't exactly earn a trip to Canton last night, but to be fair, they didn't have a prayer at getting to Manning. He was getting rid of the ball too fast.

ck_IN
08-18-2006, 08:35 AM
<i>On the other hand. If the team sucked balls right before DV (which it did) and it again sucks balls right after he leaves (which it might).... we're going to say DV is the problem?</i>

But IMO they sucked for entirely different reasons. Pre-DV we had Dan Williams and Glock and their ilk who had character issues. Their play was poor and they knew it but didn't care.

Now we have people who probably think their play is just fine and the poor performance of the D is just bad luck, or bad officiating, or some other reason but themselves.

<i>LJ better get used to KC, cause he's gonna be here for awhile.</i>

No doubt we could tag him. And I wonder what his reaction would be? He strikes me as the type that would hold out till the next ice age. Hopefully I'm wrong and it all works out.

stevieray
08-18-2006, 08:45 AM
A buddy of mine whom I've known my whole life is good friends with a local cameraman, and that guy told him that in the sixteen years he's been going to camp, Herms was the easiest and most laid back he'd ever attended.


Unfortunately, it shows.

MOhillbilly
08-18-2006, 09:02 AM
A buddy of mine whom I've known my whole life is good friends with a local cameraman, and that guy told him that in the sixteen years he's been going to camp, Herms was the easiest and most laid back he'd ever attended.


Unfortunately, it shows.


YIKES.

InChiefsHell
08-18-2006, 09:03 AM
Camp Herm...a players dream. The problem is, you can't let the inmates run the assylum...

KCTitus
08-18-2006, 09:40 AM
Yeah, it wasnt pretty, but it appeared to me the defense was playing soft and giving NYG everything underneath. All the passes they completed were underneath the LB's -- I missed NY's first series that ended in the TD-- but they didnt 'air' it out.

I would like to hope that they do plan on playing more pressure coverage in the regular season...given the fact that they have 2 shutdown corners, it would be silly not to.

Law said they were vanilla again last night, but they did have some more work to do...Im going to wait and see come Sept.

Nzoner
08-18-2006, 10:02 AM
A buddy of mine whom I've known my whole life is good friends with a local cameraman, and that guy told him that in the sixteen years he's been going to camp, Herms was the easiest and most laid back he'd ever attended.


Unfortunately, it shows.

The interview with LJ last night concerned me,him talking about about he and Herm joking around and coming across like they were best buddies.

I know it's only preseason but I also know that some players and employees perform at a much higher level when they have a chip on their shoulder towards their boss.

MOhillbilly
08-18-2006, 10:07 AM
The interview with LJ last night concerned me,him talking about about he and Herm joking around and coming across like they were best buddies.

I know it's only preseason but I also know that some players and employees perform at a much higher level when they have a chip on their shoulder towards their boss.


has being buddy buddy as a coach really ever worked?

dirk digler
08-18-2006, 10:11 AM
The interview with LJ last night concerned me,him talking about about he and Herm joking around and coming across like they were best buddies.

I know it's only preseason but I also know that some players and employees perform at a much higher level when they have a chip on their shoulder towards their boss.

LJ is the least of our worries. Channel 4 interviewed him after the game and he was pissed. He said if his teammates don't have the energy and desire to play they need to move aside and let someone who does.

I like that and it appears he is becoming more of a leader which is a positive.

Nzoner
08-18-2006, 10:15 AM
has being buddy buddy as a coach really ever worked?

Thinking of recent Super Bowl winners I'd say Cowher and Bettis had a great relationship,although I don't know that I'd go as far to call it buddy buddy.

Other than that I got nothing.

Nzoner
08-18-2006, 10:18 AM
LJ is the least of our worries. Channel 4 interviewed him after the game and he was pissed. He said if his teammates don't have the energy and desire to play they need to move aside and let someone who does.

I like that and it appears he is becoming more of a leader which is a positive.

Thanks for pointing that out,I don't get local programming.All in all though I did say players and was responding to Stevie about Herm's Holiday Camp,I didn't mean to single out LJ in paticular it was just that his interview as a whole had me concerned.

FringeNC
08-18-2006, 10:20 AM
Wow. The story we're going to hear is that DV is still responsible for the so-called "soft" play of the defense THIS year? How about a much simpler explanation: Gunther sucks.

chief2000
08-18-2006, 11:00 AM
Wrong.

We don't have a pass rush. If we did then their drives would have failed. ELI was their main weapon. We need to trade for a D-Tackle.

BigChiefFan
08-18-2006, 11:04 AM
Trent Green is one of our toughest players, IMO.

Mr. Laz
08-18-2006, 11:23 AM
Well, in his defense, we here at the Planet didn't give him enough material to have a direction in that article either.
ROFL ROFL