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tomahawk kid
08-18-2006, 07:19 AM
GRETZ: Worse Than the First
Aug 18, 2006, 5:59:19 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ


EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – As optimistic as Herm Edwards can be as a head coach, it’s going to be tough for him to find anything positive out of the Chiefs second pre-season defeat, this time 17-0 to the New York Giants on Thursday night in the Meadowlands.



OK, Dustin Colquitt was a positive. The Chiefs second-year punter was worn out after kicking nine times. He averaged just a hair short of 50 yards per punt, with a net average a hair short of 42 yards per punt.

After that … this tape is going to have to be dissected to slivers before the coaching staff finds much to be happy about.

That’s especially true with the first-team units of the offense and defense. They essentially moved through the first half like they were sleep walking. The defense couldn’t stop the Giants and the offense was ineffective.

And then there was the site of Will Shields limping out of Giants Stadium, his left foot in a boot. The veteran guard suffered an ankle injury. An x-ray taken at the stadium showed nothing broken, but he’s likely headed for several weeks of rehab.

Suddenly the problems mount for Edwards:

Defense: In two games they’ve not forced a turnover. They had three sacks, but none of those involved the Giants starting quarterback Eli Manning; he was unencumbered as he completed 11 of 14 passes. The Chiefs have gotten no push in the middle of their pass rush. After getting hammered in the running game by Houston, the Chiefs gave up 154 rushing yards to New York.

Offense: the Chiefs never got close to scoring against the Giants. In 10 possessions, they moved across the 50-yard line just one time and never moved beyond the New York 32-yard line. Trent Green was under pressure from the Giants pass rush and some of that came up the middle, where normally the Chiefs are very stout in the protection of their quarterback.

There were penalties. There were mental errors. It may be an over-simplification, but the way this game played out it looked like the Giants had something to play for and the Chiefs were just punching the clock, going through the motions. Tom Coughlin’s team looked like they had three weeks of training camp, while Edwards group played as if they had just showed up for the pre-season.

As Edwards told his team at halftime and then the media after the game, the Chiefs have yet to play together as a team. Now, the pre-season is where a lot of this comes together, so it’s far too early for anybody inside or outside Arrowhead Stadium to hit the panic button.

But the Chiefs players are delusional if they think this team is in a position to be able to flip a switch on September 10th and suddenly be well-oiled machine and blow away the rest of the AFC. Football teams win championships, and the Chiefs haven’t been a “team” for the last five years. They don’t have a lot of carry over from last year to build on.

This group of Chiefs veterans has done nothing to think they are anything special in the NFL. They didn’t make the playoffs last year, or the year before. They’ve made the playoffs once in the last eight years. All those Pro Bowl berths and offensive records are withered flowers when it comes to the 2006 season.

As a team, they’ve accomplished nothing. And, that’s exactly what they accomplished Thursday night before a national television audience: nothing.

As the Chiefs return to Arrowhead to continue the pre-season, there’s an awful lot of work that must be done.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This just gets better and better......

lenexachiefsfan
08-18-2006, 07:22 AM
There is major trouble brewing in the heartland. With two preseason games under their belt, the Kansas City Chiefs have begun answering some big off-season questions. Unfortunately for fans, the answers have not been good at all. With a new coaching staff, a tattered offensive line, and a defense that still has years of improvement ahead of it, the upcoming season could be a very ugly one in Kansas City.

This story begins on December 31st of last year when veteran coach Dick Vermeil surprised many by announcing his retirement a day before the team’s final game of the season. Take a look at the circumstances that brought Vermeil to Kansas City in the first place and I think you will see the significance of this decision.

www.kicksnlicks.com/081806page1.html

sedated
08-18-2006, 07:43 AM
it’s far too early for anybody inside or outside Arrowhead Stadium to hit the panic button.

um...I beg to differ

tomahawk kid
08-18-2006, 07:46 AM
um...I beg to differ

Yeah, especially if Shields is down.

He still has 3 weeks before the Bengals, but those ankle sprains can be a mother f#cker.

Hopefully, we can get more insight as to the severity on Holtus' update this morning.

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 08:19 AM
There is major trouble brewing in the heartland. With two preseason games under their belt, the Kansas City Chiefs have begun answering some big off-season questions. Unfortunately for fans, the answers have not been good at all. With a new coaching staff, a tattered offensive line, and a defense that still has years of improvement ahead of it, the upcoming season could be a very ugly one in Kansas City.

This story begins on December 31st of last year when veteran coach Dick Vermeil surprised many by announcing his retirement a day before the team’s final game of the season. Take a look at the circumstances that brought Vermeil to Kansas City in the first place and I think you will see the significance of this decision.

www.kicksnlicks.com/081806page1.html

Enough with the spam.

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 08:20 AM
No Holthus this morning.

He wasn't anticipating arriving back in RF until 4am.

Rain Man
08-18-2006, 08:21 AM
If Shields misses games, we're screwed.

Count Zarth
08-18-2006, 08:22 AM
Starting at right guard, from Notre Dame...JORDAN BLACK!

tyton75
08-18-2006, 08:29 AM
This really SUCKS!

Cochise
08-18-2006, 08:34 AM
We don't permit people spamming their amateur reporting. Oh wait ROFL. :p

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 08:35 AM
Black at guard worries me much less than Black at tackle...

petegz28
08-18-2006, 08:37 AM
Black at guard worries me much less than Black at tackle...


I agree.

KCChiefsFan88
08-18-2006, 08:55 AM
Black at guard worries me much less than Black at tackle...

Black is the William BURNTee of the offense at the moment. Black at ANY position along the O-line is a disaster waiting to happen.

morphius
08-18-2006, 09:15 AM
We don't permit people spamming their amateur reporting. Oh wait ROFL. :p
The key word you are missing is noobs...

Regular users we allow a lot from.

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 09:55 AM
Black is the William BURNTee of the offense at the moment. Black at ANY position along the O-line is a disaster waiting to happen.

When was the last time you saw Black play GUARD? Name it for me, and then I'll explain to you why you're wrong.

shaneo69
08-18-2006, 10:01 AM
Gretz: "This group of Chiefs veterans has done nothing to think they are anything special in the NFL. They didn’t make the playoffs last year, or the year before. They’ve made the playoffs once in the last eight years. All those Pro Bowl berths and offensive records are withered flowers when it comes to the 2006 season.

As a team, they’ve accomplished nothing. And, that’s exactly what they accomplished Thursday night before a national television audience: nothing."


Whatever you do, Bob, don't blame the guy who has assembled these players who have made the playoffs once in the last eight years.

jiveturkey
08-18-2006, 10:03 AM
When was the last time you saw Black play GUARD? Name it for me, and then I'll explain to you why you're wrong.I prefer Black at Guard as well but I would still like to hear your thinking behind it.

chiefqueen
08-18-2006, 11:46 AM
Gretz: "This group of Chiefs veterans has done nothing to think they are anything special in the NFL. They didn’t make the playoffs last year, or the year before. They’ve made the playoffs once in the last eight years. All those Pro Bowl berths and offensive records are withered flowers when it comes to the 2006 season.

As a team, they’ve accomplished nothing. And, that’s exactly what they accomplished Thursday night before a national television audience: nothing."


Whatever you do, Bob, don't blame the guy who has assembled these players who have made the playoffs once in the last eight years.

If he did that he wouldn't get paid, then how would he eat??

ChiefsCountry
08-18-2006, 11:56 AM
I remember watching Black destroy Ray Lewis on MNF. Guard seems to be his natural position, heck that is what we drafted him for.

ChiefsCountry
08-18-2006, 11:57 AM
Whatever you do, Bob, don't blame the guy who has assembled these players who have made the playoffs once in the last eight years.

Okay write an article telling your boss that he picked the wrong people.

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 11:59 AM
I prefer Black at Guard as well but I would still like to hear your thinking behind it.

My thinking behind the specific post was that he won't be able to name the last time he saw Black at guard...can you?

The simple fact is that Black has seen limited snaps at guard and has been good to DOMINANT (vs. the Ravens in 2004) at the position.

But people's minds are so clouded by his putrescence at tackle that they can't separate the two positions. He sucks at tackle so therefore he must completely suck.

tk13
08-18-2006, 12:07 PM
The wheels on the bus go over Vermeil, over Vermeil, over Vermeil. The wheels on the bus go over Vermeil, all the live long day.

tk13
08-18-2006, 12:21 PM
Seriously though, this is going to get old really quick, especially from Gretz. Vermeil hasn't been here for almost 9 months now. I don't want to hear this garbage every time we lose how it's Vermeil's fault because we're not a "team". He's not here anymore! We have a a brand new coaching staff that's had months of OTA's and mini camps and training camp to work with the team and mold them. We hear all this garbage about the changes they made to make it more like a "team", and then when it doesn't work right away we're going to blame Vermeil again.

That's a bunch of garbage... and it's the real problem with this organization, nobody is ever held at fault. Just like Gunther can fail and fail and fail... and first it's the players, then it's the coaches. But never Gunther! Or Carl getting 218 chances to build this team. Everybody always has an excuse.

Mr. Laz
08-18-2006, 12:25 PM
hey ... at least nobody can blame the offense on Herm and Solari now.

jiveturkey
08-18-2006, 12:28 PM
My thinking behind the specific post was that he won't be able to name the last time he saw Black at guard...can you?

The simple fact is that Black has seen limited snaps at guard and has been good to DOMINANT (vs. the Ravens in 2004) at the position.

But people's minds are so clouded by his putrescence at tackle that they can't separate the two positions. He sucks at tackle so therefore he must completely suck.I can't remember either but I do remember it being his college position at ND.

I also now remember the Ravens game. I ceratinly hope that we can keep him there and allow him to develop in one position (both sides though).

Bober doesn't look like a good option even off the bench.

Halfcan
08-18-2006, 12:34 PM
Wow, bad news!

Mr. Laz
08-18-2006, 12:39 PM
When was the last time you saw Black play GUARD? Name it for me, and then I'll explain to you why you're wrong.
last night against the Giants :shrug:

ct
08-18-2006, 12:41 PM
I'm not seeing anything about Will Shields anywhere except this article from Gretz. Anyone else?

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 12:54 PM
last night against the Giants :shrug:

I haven't actually seen the game yet. :D

ct
08-18-2006, 12:57 PM
last night against the Giants :shrug:

Yes he did play at G last night, and I saw him get burned badly once. Honestly the only time I saw him.

Mr. Laz
08-18-2006, 12:58 PM
I haven't actually seen the game yet. :D
:LOL:

Otter
08-18-2006, 01:09 PM
.

Hydrae
08-18-2006, 01:57 PM
All I know is that pretty much all the pressure Trent got in his part of the game were the direct result of Bober looking more like a marshmallow than an NFL lineman. The only time his man wasn't in Trent's face was when he was getting help from Cruz or Weigmann.

ChiefFan31
08-18-2006, 02:09 PM
Football teams win championships, and the Chiefs haven’t been a “team” for the last five years. They don’t have a lot of carry over from last year to build on.

WTF is this guy talking about? Does he wish to go back to the Glory season of 2001 when we were a TEAM??


I know, He is throwing Vermeil under the bus for the 20th article in a row. But still.....what an Dumbass.


Black at guard worries me much less than Black at tackle...

Agreed. I just hope we havent shot his confidence down the toilet by continually trying to play the guy at Tackle.

sedated
08-18-2006, 02:24 PM
while I don't like blaming Vermeil, I'll say that it is difficult to take over a team that was successful.

It's similar to the Jayhawks when roy left and Bill Self took over. All kinds of talent, but when you want to change something, everyone questions it. "why change what has been successful?"



...or maybe Self and Herm are just bad coaches

BigChiefFan
08-18-2006, 02:27 PM
I sure hope Shields is ready for the opener. Our O-line is decimated with injuries at this point.

Calcountry
08-18-2006, 02:52 PM
Gretz: "This group of Chiefs veterans has done nothing to think they are anything special in the NFL. They didn’t make the playoffs last year, or the year before. They’ve made the playoffs once in the last eight years. All those Pro Bowl berths and offensive records are withered flowers when it comes to the 2006 season.

As a team, they’ve accomplished nothing. And, that’s exactly what they accomplished Thursday night before a national television audience: nothing."


Whatever you do, Bob, don't blame the guy who has assembled these players who have made the playoffs once in the last eight years.

No kidding. And more than that, never ever blame the guy who faithfully keeps him employed.

Rausch
08-18-2006, 03:02 PM
I'm not seeing anything about Will Shields anywhere except this article from Gretz. Anyone else?

I really didn't see $#it in the article about it either...

stevieray
08-18-2006, 03:20 PM
That's a bunch of garbage... and it's the real problem with this organization, nobody is ever held at fault. Just like Gunther can fail and fail and fail... and first it's the players, then it's the coaches. But never Gunther! Or Carl getting 218 chances to build this team. Everybody always has an excuse.

Somebody in the know once told me that everyone at Arrowhead takes advantage of each other.

Vermiel might've been here for five years, but where is the continuity this team seems to have lost since the 97 playoff team?

Gunther inherited a team in disarray, as did DV. DV bulit one half in his tenure, but didn't leave Herm any depth. At all. With the loss of PH, WR. and TR, if we lose another starter on offense, especially skill position, we're done. Without depth for this season or the future.

Same on defense, other than safety where is our depth?.... and even that remains to be seen. While we do have some talent, we all see what happens if Tamba gets hurt, or KM, etc.

The defense seems unable to find an identity, and how could they? Once again, they are changing systems on the fly. How many systems has KM learned since he's been here? No continuity.

And there lies the rub...SD is building a solid franchise for the future, the Invescos remain competitive every year,(hell, they take cast off DT's and get better production than our first round picks). Shanny isn't going anywhere, and Marty prolly isn't either, while we play on the neverending merry go round of patch work and hope. If we were going with a defensive minded coach, you have to retain AS to at least keep some of the magic on offense intact, especially when you lose lockerroom leaders like roaf, Priest, and TRch


While I still have hope, it just seems the expectations are a little too high for a first year coach.

Nzoner
08-18-2006, 03:29 PM
Somebody in the know once told me that everyone at Arrowhead takes advantage of each other.

Vermiel might've been here for five years, but where is the continuity this team seems to have lost since the 97 playoff team?

Gunther inherited a team in disarray, as did DV. DV bulit one half in his tenure, but didn't leave Herm any depth. At all. With the loss of PH, WR. and TR, if we lose another starter on offense, especially skill position, we're done. Without depth for this season or the future.

Same on defense, other than safety where is our depth?.... and even that remains to be seen. While we do have some talent, we all see what happens if Tamba gets hurt, or KM, etc.

The defense seems unable to find an identity, and how could they? Once again, they are changing systems on the fly. How many systems has KM learned since he's been here? No continuity.

And there lies the rub...SD is building a solid franchise for the future, the Invescos remain competitive every year,(hell, they take cast off DT's and get better production than our first round picks). Shanny isn't going anywhere, and Marty prolly isn't either, while we play on the neverending merry go round of patch work and hope. If we were going with a defensive minded coach, you have to retain AS to at least keep some of the magic on offense intact, especially when you lose lockerroom leaders like roaf, Priest, and TRch


While I still have hope, it just seems the expectations are a little too high for a first year coach.

Wow buddy that was a depressing read(although very true) and not trying to be funny but if this continues I'm thinking I may be glad I didn't renew.

stevieray
08-18-2006, 03:33 PM
Wow buddy that was a depressing read(although very true) and not trying to be funny but if this continues I'm thinking I may be glad I didn't renew.

I actually thought about you in that context after the game last night.

BigChiefFan
08-18-2006, 03:39 PM
[QUOTE=stevieray]Somebody in the know once told me that everyone at Arrowhead takes advantage of each other.

QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on that?

Nzoner
08-18-2006, 03:40 PM
I actually thought about you in that context after the game last night.

I was at a bar watching last night and behind me was a Raiders fan,I didn't even have the confidence in the team to talk any smack with him.

Again,I'm anxious to see how they look at home next weekend.

stevieray
08-18-2006, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=stevieray]Somebody in the know once told me that everyone at Arrowhead takes advantage of each other.

QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on that?


No, and in retrospect, I regret typing it.

Sorry.