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Count Alex's Losses
08-18-2006, 06:14 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9606522/1

Reggie Hayward spent his first four seasons in the league watching the Denver Broncos offensive line work every day in practice, a teammate on the other side of the ball. He saw the way they perfected their zone-blocking schemes, those dastardly cut-blocks repped over and over again.

He was a teammate, a friend, a player those offensive linemen wanted to avoid cutting. So they practiced on dummies, rarely, if ever, cutting Hayward and his defensive line mates for fear of injury. There was too much risk, too much investment.

"There's no way it would have been live," Hayward said. "They had to protect the defensive linemen."

Those four years gave Hayward a real understanding of the system, even if he didn't face it in live work. Now as a defensive end for the Jacksonville Jaguars, Hayward is more than qualified to talk about that controversial style of line play, a style that is becoming and more prevalent in the NFL. What he has to say isn't very nice.

"It's dirty, there's no question about it," Hayward said. "It's a dirty way to play. But they use it because it works. That's why you're seeing more teams use it. It works. That doesn't make it right. The league has tried to do stuff to make it safer, but they haven't done enough. It's a way a guy can get seriously hurt. It's a dirty system."

The Broncos have used the zone-blocking system for years, leading a running game that is always among the league's best. It is a system based on smaller, athletic linemen who reach on the front side of the play in zone blocking and then cut on the back side. The idea behind the style is for the back to take a handoff, pick a hole, with the option of cutting it off to the backside of the play where defenders have been chopped down like pine tress at Christmas.

In addition to the Broncos, the Atlanta Falcons have used the system the past couple of years, brought to them by line coach Alex Gibbs, who perfected it when he was the line coach in Denver. This season, we have two more teams going to the system.

The Houston Texans, now coached by former Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak, will employ the style. So will the Green Bay Packers, whose offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski came over from Atlanta, where he served as the team's line coach last season, learning the tricks of the trade from Gibbs.

That's four primary zone-blocking, cut-blocking teams, which doesn't make defensive players all that happy.

"Last year, I got caught on one and had a sprained ankle and slowed me down the last couple of game," Carolina Panthers defensive end Mike Rucker said. "What's the need for it? There are so many rules out there to protect players. What about us? One of our assets is our knees. This is a system that goes right after those. It's dangerous. It's one thing to slow a guy down, but to go at his knees and ankles. That's too much."

By league rules, the blocks are legal in close-in play, the areas extending laterally to where the tackles are positioned and 3 yards on either side of the ball. An offensive player can cut down a defensive player as long as he gets his head in front of the legs above the knee.

But getting the head in front doesn't necessarily make the block safe. A flowing defensive lineman can be looking at the ball on the front-side of the play, while getting cut down behind it. That's where injuries can occur.

In 2004, Cincinnati Bengals defensive tackle Tony Williams was cut down by Broncos tackle George Foster in a nationally televised game, a block that broke Williams' ankle. It was a block away from the play. Earlier that year, Broncos left tackle Matt Lepsis broke the leg of Jaguars defensive end Paul Spicer when he cut him down after he was beaten with a quick inside move. It was different than a normal cut, but a cut nonetheless, and borderline cheap.

Those incidents led to an outcry against the blocks, and many coaches came out publicly against them. The Broncos reacted in a defensive mode, with Mike Shanahan actually pointing to other teams, not strictly zone-blocking teams, that do the same thing. In other words, he who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The league's competition committee considered a change in the rules, but none occurred.

"It's always something the competition committee is looking at," said Mike Pereira, the NFL's director of officiating. "We always look at things when there is potential for injury. We hate to say we only react if certain people blow out knee or break legs. We're always looking at things where there is potential for injury. Since I've been involved with the committee, this is always something that is a major issue."

Since the blocks are legal, there's nothing the officials can really do about it. A few years back, they made it so the umpire stays home on the backside of the play to keep an eye out for any potential illegal cut blocks, the type where the player doesn't get his head in front or goes below the knee. They're also on the lookout for roll blocks, which are also illegal.

Those blocks, according to some defensive linemen, are where the real dangers come into play. The head gets in front, but the roll in the back is where the injuries occur.

"They not only cut, but they roll," Rucker said. "They might get their head in front, but then they roll. It's not supposed to happen that way, but it does. How can it not? If we're side-by-side, and he cuts me and his head is in front and the rest is behind me, the head won't hurt me. But it's the rest of him that catches the knee or the ankle. That's no good."

When it works, the system is an art form of sorts. It's precision blocking that gives the back the freedom to pick a hole and go. It helped Terrell Davis become a star in Denver. It helps the Broncos every year be one of the best rushing teams in the league. In Atlanta, the Falcons have been the top rushing team the past two seasons.

It does have its defenders, even among teams that don't use it as their primary blocking system. Most teams use some of the principles of the system.

"If you're running the stretch, you have to cut the backside," Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden said. "I don't think they're doing anything malicious. It's a technique they need to run that offense. If you want to run that offense out of the league, then you take it out."

Said Packers coach Mike McCarthy: "It's a system that works and one we believe in. It is not something done with an idea of hurting people. Our guys will play within the rules."

And that's the key. Do the rules do enough to protect defensive players?

"I've spent an inordinate amount of time defending the tactic because it's legal," Pereira said. "By our rules, it is allowed. Our job is to find the illegal cuts, but the cut itself is allowed."

Houston Texans tackle Zach Wiegert, now playing in his first year in the system, has a different take on the defensive players who rip the cut-blocks.

"They say it's filthy?" Wiegert said. "Come on. They're always going to say that. You know how defensive players are. It says in the rule book that you can cut, so we cut. Look at the film. Those defensive players are taking on guards and holding them to let the linebackers run free. If you cut them, they take their hands off. It's no dirtier than some of the things they do."

As soon as Wiegert finishes, I ask him if the Texans cut their own players during practice.

He laughs and points to the far side of the team's practice bubble.

"No way," he said. "See those big black bags over there. We practice cutting on them. No way to hurt those."

With four teams now using the system, it will be closely watched this season. If the leg injuries suffered by defensive linemen goes up, we'll hear the uproar again. Maybe then, those linemen will get what they really want.

"They're big people, we're big people," Rucker said. "They should be able to block us without cutting us. Wouldn't that be nice?"

Better yet, it would be a lot safer. Then again, it might cut down on the offense the NFL so badly wants.

Protect the quarterbacks all you want, but damn those defensive linemen. Heck, it's only their livelihood.

htismaqe
08-18-2006, 06:26 PM
It's amazing how much the Donks can get away with.

BigRock
08-18-2006, 06:27 PM
A decent column from Prisco? Has the world gone MAD?!?

Hydrae
08-18-2006, 06:27 PM
Good article. It will be interesting to see if the proliferation of this around the league makes a difference in the amount of D-Line injuries. Part of me hopes it does to force the NFL's hand.

Rain Man
08-18-2006, 06:27 PM
If they would give the Broncos the NCAA death penalty for a year, I'll bet it would stop this stuff.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The pendulum has swung way too far in favor of the offenses. It has to swing back or the entire sport will suffer.

Oh, and I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Broncos are cheap-shot artists.

Count Alex's Losses
08-18-2006, 06:35 PM
The Broncos are cheap-shot artists.

Whiny ones.

Demonpenz
08-18-2006, 06:43 PM
cut blocking has been apart of football for a long time. It's used at all levels

Rain Man
08-18-2006, 07:03 PM
cut blocking has been apart of football for a long time. It's used at all levels

No, it's not. It's used exclusively below the waist.

Demonpenz
08-18-2006, 08:09 PM
No, it's not. It's used exclusively below the waist.


Laughed at that one not like ROFL but laughed where there needs to be an intermediate laugh. somewhere between :) and ROFL

whoman69
08-18-2006, 08:19 PM
The worst part about the cut block is its usually done in high congestion areas where there are people on the ground that can hit the player low while the other player performs the 'legal' cut block. That is a chop block which is rarely called but something we see on almost every down from the cheating Doncos.

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 09:32 PM
Good d-linemen don't get cut blocked.

Boon
08-18-2006, 09:50 PM
Good d-linemen don't get cut blocked.


Then why don't the donks practice that shit against their own d-linemen?
Cheatin bastards!!

stevieray
08-18-2006, 09:53 PM
Good d-linemen don't get cut blocked.

And dirty olinemen get fined.

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 09:53 PM
Then why don't the donks practice that shit against their own d-linemen?
Cheatin bastards!!

They do. Even the Chiefs cut block...all teams do it every Sunday. Cowher had the nerve to say something about a few years ago...So Shanahan showed video of his team doing it. LMAO

Boon
08-18-2006, 09:56 PM
They do. Even the Chiefs cut block...all teams do it every Sunday. Cowher had the nerve to say something about a few years ago...So Shanahan showed video of his team doing it. LMAO


Did you even read the article?

"He was a teammate, a friend, a player those offensive linemen wanted to avoid cutting. So they practiced on dummies, rarely, if ever, cutting Hayward and his defensive line mates for fear of injury. There was too much risk, too much investment"

Doesn't sound like they practice it on their "good d-linemen".

cdcox
08-18-2006, 10:00 PM
With the proliferation of the cancer that grows from the Shanny coaching tree and a the advent of an honest commissioner, I guarantee we'll see a long-overdue rule change in the next 4 years.

stevieray
08-18-2006, 10:01 PM
With the proliferation of the cancer that grows from the Shanny coaching tree and a the advent of an honest commissioner, I guarantee we'll see a long-overdue rule change in the next 4 years.


oh please let this be true.

Boon
08-18-2006, 10:02 PM
With the proliferation of the cancer that grows from the Shanny coaching tree and a the advent of an honest commissioner, I guarantee we'll see a long-overdue rule change in the next 4 years.


Seedy,

Don't know much about the new commish, but I hope you're right on this. Someone's gotta stop the cheatin bastards. Gone on for too long.

Mecca
08-18-2006, 10:03 PM
I recall a few years ago.......The Broncos were playing the Jaguars, they cut Marcus Stroud causing him to get injured..........he returned to the game looking about as pissed as I've seen anyone look, he then proceded to pick up Tom Nalen and throw him like a child on the next play.

CHIEF4EVER
08-18-2006, 10:16 PM
The Donx have always been a bunch of whining, cheating, cheap shotting scum. Why is anyone surprised that they will cry foul if called on their 'legal' blocking?

jspchief
08-18-2006, 10:22 PM
It's going to take a blatant injury to a superstar D-lineman. Someone like Julius Peppers is going to have to get hurt on a national stage. Then the league will react.

They don't care until it affects a star player. Look how quickly they reacted to the Carson Palmer injury.

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 10:33 PM
Did you even read the article?

"He was a teammate, a friend, a player those offensive linemen wanted to avoid cutting. So they practiced on dummies, rarely, if ever, cutting Hayward and his defensive line mates for fear of injury. There was too much risk, too much investment"

Doesn't sound like they practice it on their "good d-linemen".

Why would I pollute my mind with that garbage. But they have to practice on actual human beings.

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 10:38 PM
You guys make me laugh. Good dlinemen don't get cut blocked because the know how to avoid it. The problem is when tubby fat ass can't see his feet. You guys are all worried about him during blocking but you're not worried about his health while he's obese and his health is at risk. LOL.

Your o-line cut blocks. Every team does it including yours. Alex Gibbs used to coach in KC for Pete's sake.

Boon
08-18-2006, 10:40 PM
Why would I pollute my mind with that garbage. But they have to practice on actual human beings.


Donks aren't "actual human beings".

jspchief
08-18-2006, 10:41 PM
Your o-line cut blocks. Every team does it including yours. Alex Gibbs used to coach in KC for Pete's sake.Yea, I still wish the NFL would put an end to it. Letting that rule slip by considering all the rules designed to "protect" players is simply hypocritical.

CHIEF4EVER
08-18-2006, 10:41 PM
Why would I pollute my mind with that garbage. But they have to practice on actual human beings.

No matter what your cheating tactics are....we are taking the keys to that cesspool you call a stadium. BIZATCH! :p

Mr. Kotter
08-18-2006, 10:42 PM
You guys make me laugh. Good dlinemen don't get cut blocked because the know how to avoid it. The problem is when tubby fat ass can't see his feet. You guys are all worried about him during blocking but you're not worried about his health while he's obese and his health is at risk. LOL.

Your o-line cut blocks. Every team does it including yours. Alex Gibbs used to coach in KC for Pete's sake.

I agree to a point.

It would be bittersweet poetic justice though, if a couple of Denver D-Lineman are lost for the season due to these injuries....if more teams start doing it more often. :hmmm:

:D

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 10:44 PM
No matter what your cheating tactics are....we are taking the keys to that cesspool you call a stadium. BIZATCH! :p

You know what...you're exactly right...I predict the Chiefs will sweep my beloved Donkies this year.:)

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 10:45 PM
I agree to a point.

It would be bittersweet poetic justice though, if a couple of Denver D-Lineman are lost for the season due to these injuries....if more teams start doing it more often. :hmmm:

:D

Zone blocking is the great equalizer....otherwise...the linemen will get fatter and fatter

CHIEF4EVER
08-18-2006, 10:47 PM
I agree to a point.

It would be bittersweet poetic justice though, if a couple of Denver D-Lineman are lost for the season due to these injuries....if more teams start doing it more often. :hmmm:

:D

Then, ironically, something would likely be done.

CHIEF4EVER
08-18-2006, 10:50 PM
You know what...you're exactly right...I predict the Chiefs will sweep my beloved Donkies this year.:)

Oh no you don't. Don't even try GB. NO reverse Mojo for you this year.

Mr. Kotter
08-18-2006, 10:51 PM
Zone blocking is the great equalizer....otherwise...the linemen will get fatter and fatter

Like I said....okay. Karma is a bitch. And it sure would be sweet if the Donks loose their D-ine to it....

:fire:

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2006, 10:56 PM
Oh no you don't. Don't even try GB. NO reverse Mojo for you this year.

You are probably right because...I...am always....wrong.

ROFL

Valiant
08-19-2006, 01:41 AM
As soon as Wiegert finishes, I ask him if the Texans cut their own players during practice.

He laughs and points to the far side of the team's practice bubble.

"No way," he said. "See those big black bags over there. We practice cutting on them. No way to hurt those."

---

Seems the tactic is dangerous if they do not run it in their practices..

would T. DAvis of sniffed 1800 yards behind a normal oline??

Ugly Duck
08-19-2006, 02:26 AM
Them Donks do an awful lot of rolling & leg whipping that they don't get called for. If the refs just enforced the rules the situation wouldn't be half as bad. Oh sure.... they dish out fines to the Donks on the few that they call, but if they just did their dang job the Donks would have to resort to legal cut blocks.

Logical
08-19-2006, 02:41 AM
Am I the only one honest enough to admit I would favor the Chiefs using the very successful technique now that Roaf it gone?

Guru
08-19-2006, 03:08 AM
Laughed at that one not like ROFL but laughed where there needs to be an intermediate laugh. somewhere between :) and ROFL
http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/lmao.gif

SBK
08-19-2006, 03:11 AM
Am I the only one honest enough to admit I would favor the Chiefs using the very successful technique now that Roaf it gone?

I'm all for using it. For the game in Denver. Other than that I would prefer that we not resort to cheap shots. (although I wouldn't be upset if someone on our D knocked The Fake the F out about 5 seconds after he throws the ball on that freakin bootleg)

Adept Havelock
08-19-2006, 10:46 AM
I'm all for using it. For the game in Denver. Other than that I would prefer that we not resort to cheap shots. (although I wouldn't be upset if someone on our D knocked The Fake the F out about 5 seconds after he throws the ball on that freakin bootleg)

:hmmm:. Maybe your right, perhaps the best way to contain Jake the Fake was to trade a third string DT's ejection from the game for his left knee....

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 11:20 AM
I'm all for using it. For the game in Denver. Other than that I would prefer that we not resort to cheap shots. (although I wouldn't be upset if someone on our D knocked The Fake the F out about 5 seconds after he throws the ball on that freakin bootleg)

It's not a cheap shot, it's a perfectly legal techinque that almost every team in the NFL (even the Chiefs) use at least in a limited amount, more than a few teams use it frequently. I understand that as your AFC West rival that you're going to always hate the Broncos, but it's odd that you cry foul when we do it yet never seem to care when anyone else does it.

I doubt this rule will ever get changed because so many teams use it that they will probably never get enough support for it.

FringeNC
08-19-2006, 11:30 AM
If true, this sentence is very damning:

"So they practiced on dummies, rarely, if ever, cutting Hayward and his defensive line mates for fear of injury."

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 11:34 AM
If true, this sentence is very damning:

"So they practiced on dummies, rarely, if ever, cutting Hayward and his defensive line mates for fear of injury."

I doubt any teams practice that tactic against their own D-line. Heck, even throughout the years I played peewee and High School football, we were always taught to not go after our team mates knees no matter what the situation. I got my ass chewed up by the coach once for cutting our fullbacks knees out from under him to make a tackle.

FringeNC
08-19-2006, 11:37 AM
I doubt any teams practice that tactic against their own D-line. Heck, even throughout the years I played peewee and High School football, we were always taught to not go after our team mates knees no matter what the situation. I got my ass chewed up by the coach once for cutting our fullbacks knees out from under him to make a tackle.

The point is that if Shanny determines the technique is too risky to use in practice, should the NFL allow it in games?

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 11:42 AM
The point is that if Shanny determines the technique is too risky to use in practice, should the NFL allow it in games?

That's a good point, but I'd counter by saying that if coaches determine it's too risky to hit your quarterbacks in practice, should the NFL allow it in games?

vailpass
08-19-2006, 11:53 AM
:deevee:

milkman
08-19-2006, 11:57 AM
That's a good point, but I'd counter by saying that if coaches determine it's too risky to hit your quarterbacks in practice, should the NFL allow it in games?

They allow the QB to get hit?

The way they've panzied the position, that almost seems like a false statement.

Iowanian
08-19-2006, 11:57 AM
I think this would take care of itself, if every team that faced zone cut blocking dirty bastards would turn their dline loose, dropping some helmets on their offensive line's knees....away from a couple of plays.

See how funny Donk fans think it is when Lepsis or Foster are riding a cart off of the field.

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 12:01 PM
They allow the QB to get hit?

The way they've panzied the position, that almost seems like a false statement.

Quoted for truth ROFL

Iowanian, what would you say about that when they carted Turley or Shields off the field for that? The Broncos are not the only ones who cut block.

Iowanian
08-19-2006, 12:07 PM
The B roncos have been hurting players for years with this scheme....years. They've ruined careers.

Floriduh donk...we both know its far, far more likely for Jared Allen or Tamba Hali to lose a season vs Denver from a cheap shot. Its what Denver has to do....greased jerseys, chopped knees, salary cap violations....steroids for kickers.

cdcox
08-19-2006, 12:07 PM
Quoted for truth ROFL

Iowanian, what would you say about that when they carted Turley or Shields off the field for that? The Broncos are not the only ones who cut block.

Name another OL that has broken the legs of TWO opposing players in the same year using a cut block.

Bowser
08-19-2006, 12:09 PM
Quoted for truth ROFL

Iowanian, what would you say about that when they carted Turley or Shields off the field for that? The Broncos are not the only ones who cut block.

True, but they've taken out the most players by doing it.

That makes them one of two things -

1) Bad at it
2) Dirty


Maybe a little of both. Maybe a LOT of both.

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 12:17 PM
The B roncos have been hurting players for years with this scheme....years. They've ruined careers.

Floriduh donk...we both know its far, far more likely for Jared Allen or Tamba Hali to lose a season vs Denver from a cheap shot. Its what Denver has to do....greased jerseys, chopped knees, salary cap violations....steroids for kickers.

Name some players that we've hurt from cut blocks. I only remember 2 of them.

A chop block is much different than a cut block, and a chop block IS illegal. Also Sauerbrun was not on steroids, he was on ephedra, which is a legal supplement but on the NFL's list of banned substances. He was also taking that on his own, it had nothing to do with the Broncos themselves.

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 12:19 PM
Name another OL that has broken the legs of TWO opposing players in the same year using a cut block.

Tony Williams was injured on a cut block (which was unneccesary because he was so far from the play). The other I assume you are referring to is Spicer in Jacksonville. He was hurt on a chop block IIRC, not a cut block.

FringeNC
08-19-2006, 12:28 PM
That's a good point, but I'd counter by saying that if coaches determine it's too risky to hit your quarterbacks in practice, should the NFL allow it in games?

What's the upside in hitting the QB during practice? How does it help the defense refine technique? It does not, so there is absolutely no reason to hit a QB in practice.

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 12:39 PM
What's the upside in hitting the QB during practice? How does it help the defense refine technique? It does not, so there is absolutely no reason to hit a QB in practice.

Exactly. There is no upside to practicing a technique that goes directly at the knees of real players, hence why I said players and almost always discouraged from going at teammate's knees in practice no matter what the scenario.

Onion_Knight
08-19-2006, 12:46 PM
Then why don't the donks practice that shit against their own d-linemen?
Cheatin bastards!!

Because our d-line isn't anything to write home about

Iowanian
08-19-2006, 12:54 PM
How many players have sprained ankles and knees from cut blocks? More than 1 Chiefs DT has limped off the field from them.

If Denver weren't doing dirty cuts, this wouldn't be required.

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060804/PKR0205/608040506/1989

"Until this year, any cut block in the tackle zone that is, the area between the tackles and three yards forward and back from the line of scrimmage was legal as long as it was one man blocking one defender. But now, with the emphasis on player safety, those cut blocks have to be executed quickly after the snap, or the blocker can be called for a 15-yard penalty.


The league changed the rule for safety reasons, because defensive linemen were getting injured by such cut blocks when they weren't involved in a play. "

jspchief
08-19-2006, 12:57 PM
Am I the only one honest enough to admit I would favor the Chiefs using the very successful technique now that Roaf it gone?I'd just as soon they put an end to it for everyone. It may be effective and legal, but it's still a dirty way to play football. A good part of the effectiveness of it is that fear of injury for D-linemen.

If they can implement a rule protecting the knees of QBs 4 months after Carson Palmer goes down, then they can implement a rule to protect linemen. The NFL's hypocrisy in the name of increased offense is staggering.

Iowanian
08-19-2006, 01:03 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-dol07aug07,0,7648522.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

"Vickerson, a seventh-round pick out of Michigan State, is still angry at Falcons center Austin King for his cut-block away from the ball during the final preseason game that has Vickerson's friends questioning whether he was even in the NFL."

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/31/Sports/Stop_the_chop_Broncos.shtml

from 2004
"The problem is some teams, like the Broncos, have a long-standing reputation for being particularly adept at the below-the-knee block. In just the past four seasons, five players have been severely hurt by a similar block while playing against the Broncos."

Oh yeah...you thought I was wrong to indicate the donks might get some of their own medicine?

"At his news conference last week, Bill Cowher was asked what he thought of the block. The Steelers coach said it was uncalled for and warned the Broncos to "do unto others as you want them do onto you."

""The only difference between the chop block and the cut block is where you have your head," Bucs center John Wade said. "Ahead or on the side of him, it's a matter of inches."

And here is a little Gem for Donk fans bashing Turley's size.
""The left tackle for the Broncos (Lepsis) has to be about 280 pounds and he's really quick," Bucs defensive end Greg Spires said. "That's his main thing, it's to cut. He's the best at it. He does it the legal way, but sometimes (the illegal way) happens and when it does, he should be punished."

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 01:33 PM
I agree Iowanian, making those kinds of blocks when it's out of the play is pretty cheap. I have no problem with that rule.

It's funny you bring up Cowher again. It's well known that Shanahan showed the media a multitude of clips of his team executing the same blocks...he never had anything to say after that. ROFL

Again, the chop block and the cut block are two vastly different things. I can only remember 2 players suffering serious injuries as the result of a legal cut block performed by a Bronco O-lineman. The others were chop blocks.

cdcox
08-19-2006, 01:57 PM
I agree Iowanian, making those kinds of blocks when it's out of the play is pretty cheap. I have no problem with that rule.

It's funny you bring up Cowher again. It's well known that Shanahan showed the media a multitude of clips of his team executing the same blocks...he never had anything to say after that. ROFL

Again, the chop block and the cut block are two vastly different things. I can only remember 2 players suffering serious injuries as the result of a legal cut block performed by a Bronco O-lineman. The others were chop blocks.

So you are saying that in the course of making legal cut blocks, the Broncos are slipping into illegal chop blocks? There seems to be way too much of that going on if three players were injured. That probably means for every player geeting injured there are another 50 or 100 illegal blocks. Those aren't getting called. If the refs can't see the difference, between a cut and a chop, then the line is too close. I'd say any chop block that injures a player should result in a 4 game suspension. The penalty for throwing a chop block (getting a 15 yard penalty once every 10 times you throw one) doesn't carry enough risk for your OL to seriously try to avoid them.

Garcia Bronco
08-19-2006, 04:18 PM
A chop block involes two players and a cut block involves one. The problem is most if you don't understand the difference, and a cut block is not dirty in the least. A chop block is dirty.

vailpass
08-19-2006, 04:20 PM
Maybe while he is begging the League to expand the playoff field so his team can finally get in Carl can also cry about the big bad Denver Broncos meany blocking scheme.
You guys are embarassing yourselves, crying like a bunch of pussies.

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:20 PM
trent green needs to be suspended then because a couple of his blocks were below the waist

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:23 PM
Maybe while he is begging the League to expand the playoff field so his team can finally get in Carl can also cry about the big bad Denver Broncos meany blocking scheme.
You guys are embarassing yourselves, crying like a bunch of pussies.


no shit some people here probably never even played a ****ing down. It's war out there. People try to take out your legs. Not me though. I ****ING SOLDIER

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:24 PM
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Tribal Warfare
08-19-2006, 04:25 PM
Denver Broncos meany blocking scheme.


Objectively you got to admit it's kind of f*cked up.Going after someones legs for the cutback lane instead of using base technique , drive, and leverage is real messed up.

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:27 PM
Objectively you got to admit it's kind of f*cked up.Going after someones legs for the cutback lane, and instead of using base technique , drive, and leverage is real messed up.


what about going for someones legs in wrestling? Is that messed up too? It's apart of the game. Some people i swear want it to be touch football

Tribal Warfare
08-19-2006, 04:30 PM
what about going for someones legs in wrestling? Is that messed up too? It's apart of the game. Some people i swear want it to be touch football


Are you saying it would be okay if I just put all my weight in driving my shoulder into your knee is ethical

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:35 PM
Are you saying it would be okay if I just put all my weight in driving my shoulder into your knee is ethical


It's not ethical neither murdering a wideout thats going over the middle for a slant pass. It's not right, it's not ethical, it's football. It's a mean game thats why you have to have a pair hanging to play.

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:37 PM
I would venture calling some of these chief fans soft but i guess years of not winning a playoff game will do that.

Tribal Warfare
08-19-2006, 04:38 PM
It's not ethical neither murdering a wideout thats going over the middle for a slant pass. It's not right, it's not ethical, it's football. It's a mean game thats why you have to have a pair hanging to play.

You justified my point, it isn't ethical

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:40 PM
You justified my point, it isn't ethical


I know it's not ethical thats what i just said. The whole game isn't ethical.

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:41 PM
these rules don't really effect the chiefs anyway. Their line are too busy being fat and lazy to bother getting upfield

vailpass
08-19-2006, 04:44 PM
Objectively you got to admit it's kind of f*cked up.Going after someones legs for the cutback lane instead of using base technique , drive, and leverage is real messed up.

If they aren't chopping I don't have a problem with it. Obviously chop blocks are wrong and I never want to see my team involved.

Football is as tough as a sport as there is; you have to do whatever you can to win within the framework of the rules. I realize not everyone can hang with that but it is what it is.

Tribal Warfare
08-19-2006, 04:44 PM
I know it's not ethical thats what i just said. The whole game isn't ethical.


:rolleyes:

Demonpenz
08-19-2006, 04:58 PM
You probably win the arguement, i am just old school. I hate the way the game is being pussified

jspchief
08-19-2006, 05:23 PM
They should bring back the clothesline, it was effective too.

Florida_Bronco
08-19-2006, 07:53 PM
no shit some people here probably never even played a ****ing down. It's war out there. People try to take out your legs. Not me though. I ****ING SOLDIER

Great post!

Iowanian
08-19-2006, 09:36 PM
I'll be happy if the refs just start calling Denver on the leg whips, rolling and trips.