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View Full Version : You get to change 1 thing to improve the Chiefs chances at a Super Bowl this year?


Logical
08-22-2006, 11:56 AM
What would you do.

I would replace Gunther Cunningham or talk Roaf out of of retiring. So if I cannot talk Roaf out of retiring I would fire Gunther.

How about you?

Mr. Laz
08-22-2006, 11:59 AM
1st option -trade Eric Hicks for Osi Umenyiora

2nd option - trade Goonther for Jim Johnson

Logical
08-22-2006, 12:01 PM
trade Eric Hicks for Osi UmenyioraInteresting choice.

pr_capone
08-22-2006, 12:02 PM
What would you do.

I would replace Gunther Cunningham or talk Roaf out of of retiring. So if I cannot talk Roaf out of retiring I would fire Gunther.

How about you?


Neither.... trade for T.O

We are in desperate need of a #1 wide out... especially since Kennison is gonna hold out.

pr_capone
08-22-2006, 12:02 PM
I KEED!

Mr. Laz
08-22-2006, 12:02 PM
Interesting choice.
Osi might be the best young DE in the league right now.

bogie
08-22-2006, 12:02 PM
The D.

sedated
08-22-2006, 12:15 PM
redo the 2002 draft

DaFace
08-22-2006, 12:16 PM
I don't know WHO we need necessarily, but I think I'd go for a major DT. The lack of push off of our line has killed us in past years and may continue to do so this year.

Hog Farmer
08-22-2006, 12:17 PM
I would switch our Defensive Line out with the Chiefs cheerleaders, that would be a sure way to keep the opposing offense on their heels.

CoMoChief
08-22-2006, 12:19 PM
Interesting choice.

Osi is a RE, we already have Jared Allen.

CoMoChief
08-22-2006, 12:20 PM
I would switch our Defensive Line out with the Chiefs cheerleaders, that would be a sure way to keep the opposing offense on their heels.


Very true. Though at a football game to be honest the last thing I really care about is cheerleaders. To be honest with you I think all of that is a waste of money.

ChiefaRoo
08-22-2006, 12:33 PM
Resurrect Derrick Thomas in his prime and line him up on D

HemiEd
08-22-2006, 12:40 PM
What would you do.

I would replace Gunther Cunningham or talk Roaf out of of retiring. So if I cannot talk Roaf out of retiring I would fire Gunther.

How about you?


I can not believe it. As I look over my shoulder I agree with you 100%. Exactly what I was going to post only a little differently. :D

ILikeBigTiddys
08-22-2006, 12:45 PM
Trade for the Jag's DTs

duncan_idaho
08-22-2006, 12:46 PM
Draft John Henderson or Albert Haynesworth instead of Ryan Sims in 2002...

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 12:51 PM
Albert Haynesworth? No way, he sucks.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:17 PM
Hope the Broncos die in a fiery plane crash?

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:18 PM
Hope the Broncos die in a fiery plane crash?
So its all those split series with the Broncos that have been holding us back?

MOhillbilly
08-22-2006, 01:19 PM
sean taylor

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:20 PM
So its all those split series with the Broncos that have been holding us back?

The SB goes through Denver this year...haven't you spent enough time at the Mane to realize that?

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:22 PM
The SB goes through Denver this year...haven't you spent enough time at the Mane to realize that?
I am not sure how good the Mane's crystal ball for this coming year is but you are kind of right.

The Superbowl winner literally went right through Denver. It was more of a pit stop.

The Dude Abides
08-22-2006, 01:22 PM
Hope the Broncos die in a fiery plane crash?
ROFL

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:27 PM
I am not sure how good the Mane's crystal ball for this coming year is but you are kind of right.

The Superbowl winner literally went right through Denver. It was more of a pit stop.

I said "this year" Zach. Technically, the Denver/Pitt game was "this year"...it's all semantics.

In all reality, if the Chiefs had a semblance of their O-Line from last year and a mildly competent HC they'd be in the hunt this year. I guess there's always "next year", although I doubt you'll switch head coaches after one year.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:29 PM
I said "this year" Zach. Technically, the Denver/Pitt game was "this year"...it's all semantics.

In all reality, if the Chiefs had a semblance of their O-Line from last year and a mildly competent HC they'd be in the hunt this year. I guess there's always "next year", although I doubt you'll switch head coaches after one year.
ROFL

You believe there isn't a semblance of last year's offensive line? For someone who hangs on every tidbit of Chiefs news you seem uninformed.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:32 PM
ROFL

You believe there isn't a semblance of last year's offensive line? For someone who hangs on every tidbit of Chiefs news you seem uninformed.

Zach, are you trying to tell me that Turley and Sampson are sufficient replacements for Roaf and Welbourne? LOL

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:37 PM
Zach, are you trying to tell me that Turley and Sampson are sufficient replacements for Roaf and Welbourne? LOL
I am saying that when you return two pro bowl guards...a great center you have at least a semblence of a previous online. Like...the whole middle...

Besides Turley has looked pretty good during the span of preseason. If you think this team goes down the tubes because of a small downgrade at tackle then more power to you.

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 01:40 PM
Why do so many Donkey Trolls believe that Welbourne is sooooo irreplaceable? I personally don't believe he will be a major step down...

Turley is definitely a step down, but he's a huge LEAP ahead of the replacement last year when Roaf was down, in HWY 65 being on the bench. Another item, I'm not surprised donkeyfans can't comprehend.
I also like how they tend to act like Turley is an undersized, unproven Midget, when he's the same size as their LT.

If I make a non-comic book decision, regardless of the teams obvious inability to do so.....I bring in Walter Jones or John Henderson.

Rain Man
08-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Hope the Broncos die in a fiery plane crash?

I presumed that it had to be something different than our normal wish.



I would instill into Junior Siavii the heart, desire, and hunger of a champion. If you take the lowest-performing guy on the team and turn him into the highest performer at a position of great need, that's got to be good.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Roaf and Welbourn?

WELBOURN?

ROFL :deevee: ROFL :deevee:

patteeu
08-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Get Willie Roaf back.

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 01:43 PM
I don't want the Donkeys to all die in a fiery crash.....But I'd like all of their fans to get a serious bout with a painful and difficult vd....maybe the south American fish that swims up the urethra and embeds its barbed fins....


On 2nd thought, since Donk fans believe the superbowl goes through Denver......I nominate Jordan Black to be their starting LT...and Jr Siavii to start as a DT for their defense.

Addition via subtraction.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:43 PM
I am saying that when you return two pro bowl guards...a great center you have at least a semblence of a previous online. Like...the whole middle...

Besides Turley has looked pretty good during the span of preseason. If you think this team goes down the tubes because of a small downgrade at tackle then more power to you.

Can you explain, outside of Steve Hutchinson, why OG's don't make as much as OT's? The reality is that OT's are much more valuable than OG's, and you lost both of them.

And saying that Turley is a "small downgrade" from Roaf is laughable at best. A guy who is a sure fire HOFer vs. an undersized guy who has been out of football for 2 years with severe back issues? LMAO. Turley got abused vs. the Giants. Umenyora made him look VERY ordinary on several occasions.

Now, if you had Turley from 3 years ago, you might be accurate in that statement.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:45 PM
I don't want the Donkeys to all die in a fiery crash.....But I'd like all of their fans to get a serious bout with a painful and difficult vd....maybe the south American fish that swims up the urethra and embeds its barbed fins....

I don't know how you could wish that on anyone, regardless of which team they are a fan of...

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 01:46 PM
Roaf is still very skilled, but its not like his health, speed and play hadn't declined in recent years. He was still an outstanding LT, but not the same as he was in his prime.

He's gone...the Chiefs have to move on. Welcome to the NFL.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:48 PM
On 2nd thought, since Donk fans believe the superbowl goes through Denver......I nominate Jordan Black to be their starting LT...and Jr Siavii to start as a DT for their defense.

Addition via subtraction.

Sorry, Ted Sundquist would never allow those 2 scrubs on the Broncos squad...any other ideas? How about Gonzalez? I'm sure that he wants a SB ring before he retires...

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:48 PM
Can you explain, outside of Steve Hutchinson, why OG's don't make as much as OT's? The reality is that OT's are much more valuable than OG's, and you lost both of them.

And saying that Turley is a "small downgrade" from Roaf is laughable at best. A guy who is a sure fire HOFer vs. an undersized guy who has been out of football for 2 years with severe back issues? LMAO. Turley got abused vs. the Giants. Umenyora made him look VERY ordinary on several occasions.

Now, if you had Turley from 3 years ago, you might be accurate in that statement.
You are trying to paint me as being the one making outlandish comments? 3 amazing players from that line are returning and you are trying to convince me there is no semblence of the line from last year.

As fun as it would be to just throw our hands up for all of these games the Chiefs are lining up a team with a lot of offensive talent across the board. I am not saying Turley=Roaf but I am saying Tuley DOES NOT = Doom. The guy has shown himself be an adequate fill in. We also have one of the better blocking TEs in the game in Dunn.

If you think we can't hang then great. I hope your team feels the same way.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:48 PM
Sorry, Ted Sundquist would never allow those 2 scrubs on the Broncos squad...any other ideas? How about Gonzalez? I'm sure that he wants a SB ring before he retires...
From the team who drafted Clarett.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:49 PM
Roaf is still very skilled, but its not like his health, speed and play hadn't declined in recent years. He was still an outstanding LT, but not the same as he was in his prime.

He's gone...the Chiefs have to move on. Welcome to the NFL.

I sure there was some decline, but not even close to the downgrade that you will see with Turdley in there. I will readily admit that Willie dominated in KC last year against the Broncos. LJ ran to his side on almost every big run in that game.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:50 PM
From the team who drafted Clarett with a compensatory pick.

Fixed it for you.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:52 PM
Fixed it for you.
He wouldn't let those scrubs....uhhhhhh....

ROFL

sedated
08-22-2006, 01:54 PM
A guy who is a sure fire HOFer vs. an undersized guy

Iowanian said it, but I'll dumb it down for the donk troll.

Lepsis = 290
Turley = 300

(according to NFL.com)

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:55 PM
You are trying to paint me as being the one making outlandish comments? 3 amazing players from that line are returning and you are trying to convince me there is no semblence of the line from last year.

As fun as it would be to just throw our hands up for all of these games the Chiefs are lining up a team with a lot of offensive talent across the board. I am not saying Turley=Roaf but I am saying Tuley DOES NOT = Doom. The guy has shown himself be an adequate fill in. We also have one of the better blocking TEs in the game in Dunn.

If you think we can't hang then great. I hope your team feels the same way.

Actually it's more the coaching changes that will spell doom for the Chiefs this year IMO. The OLine issue is your 2nd biggest worry. Face it, you lost 3 blockers (Roaf, Wellbourne, Richardson) for LJ and you are downgraded at each of those positions.

I actually think your D will be improved if you bench Knight. Hali and those 2 new DT's have to be an improvement over what you lined up last year.

I just don't see your offense being at the same level, especially with Herm and Solari at the helm now.

Moooo
08-22-2006, 01:55 PM
I say replace our team with the AFC Pro Bowl team. :)

Then we can look at coaching and see where the problems are...

Moooo

sedated
08-22-2006, 01:55 PM
Fixed it for you.


:rolleyes:

whatever lets you sleep at night

Logical
08-22-2006, 01:56 PM
I am saying that when you return two pro bowl guards...a great center you have at least a semblence of a previous online. Like...the whole middle...

Besides Turley has looked pretty good during the span of preseason. If you think this team goes down the tubes because of a small downgrade at tackle then more power to you.

Are you ZachKC?

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 01:56 PM
Iowanian said it, but I'll dumb it down for the donk troll.

Lepsis = 290
Turley = 300

(according to NFL.com)

You are truly delusional if you think Turley is at 300 lbs. One of the commentators during the Giants game mentioned that he'd be surprised if Turley was 280.

Tribal Warfare
08-22-2006, 01:57 PM
Remove Gunther, or draft Freeney instead of Sims

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 01:59 PM
Sweet Chocolate Jesus, Denver is looking at Ron Dayne, Taintum fumblefingers Bell, and Mike who dropped the rock Bell as their starting Rbbc, and they're running down a former probowl Olinemen in KC...who will be lining up next to Brian Waters(probowl) Weigeman(could be probowl any given year) and Will Shields.

There may be a chink in the armor, but thats still a pretty damn good building block for an Oline......one that is on an offense that has lead the NFL over 3-4 of the last years.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:59 PM
Actually it's more the coaching changes that will spell doom for the Chiefs this year IMO. The OLine issue is your 2nd biggest worry. Face it, you lost 3 blockers (Roaf, Wellbourne, Richardson) for LJ and you are downgraded at each of those positions.

I actually think your D will be improved if you bench Knight. Hali and those 2 new DT's have to be an improvement over what you lined up last year.

I just don't see your offense being at the same level, especially with Herm and Solari at the helm now.
I miss T Rich but msotly because I liked him as a player in our organization. We ran out of one back sets...alot...a whole lot. Cruz has really quelled a lot of the concerns at FB. I am not sure when Welbourne became all world but I will just move on.

Our offense has been the best in the business over the last few years but there is one thing I really hated about it. They couldn't finish. They couldn't take a lead and ride it out. There were so many times where we would have done so well for ourself with 5 mins left in the game to get a few first downs and ball control are way to a win...as it was they either scored really fast or went 3 and out...there was generally no where in the middle.

I love the idea of this team grinding it out and staying on the field to give our defense a better chance to be a success. This offense will be wearing teams down. I look forward to it.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 01:59 PM
Are you ZachKC?
Yup

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 02:00 PM
I don't believe that Turley is much over 280....
I don't believe Lepsis is, either...most of the Donk line is smaller....but you don't need to be big when you just dive into the back of knees of Dlinemen flowing towards the backside of a play.



Iowanian said it, but I'll dumb it down for the donk troll.

Lepsis = 290
Turley = 300

(according to NFL.com)

I've seen enough of Ronnie Cruz to not feel terrible about a mid 30's fullback not being in there. Richardson has been banged up over the past couple of years. He's a hell of a FB, but not a deal breaker in this offense. If nothing else, what the chiefs lose in lead blocker, they gain in speed and ability to catch passes from the FB position.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:02 PM
Sweet Chocolate Jesus, Denver is looking at Ron Dayne, Taintum fumblefingers Bell, and Mike who dropped the rock Bell as their starting Rbbc, and they're running down a former probowl Olinemen in KC...who will be lining up next to Brian Waters(probowl) Weigeman(could be probowl any given year) and Will Shields.

There may be a chink in the armor, but thats still a pretty damn good building block for an Oline......one that is on an offense that has lead the NFL over 3-4 of the last years.

Ahem...why would I have any reason to be concerned about the Broncos running game? I'll give you a few reasons why I'm not:

Olandis Gary
Rueben Droughns
Mike Anderson

Also, could you help me out and name the AFC West team that had more rushing yards than KC last year?

Now, if Lepsis and Nalen were gone this year, then I'd be concerned...

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 02:05 PM
It'd be a damn shame if the league actually starts calling DenLine for the leg whips, trips and rolling....and cut blocks too far away.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:06 PM
I miss T Rich but msotly because I liked him as a player in our organization. We ran out of one back sets...alot...a whole lot. Cruz has really quelled a lot of the concerns at FB. I am not sure when Welbourne became all world but I will just move on.

Our offense has been the best in the business over the last few years but there is one thing I really hated about it. They couldn't finish. They couldn't take a lead and ride it out. There were so many times where we would have done so well for ourself with 5 mins left in the game to get a few first downs and ball control are way to a win...as it was they either scored really fast or went 3 and out...there was generally no where in the middle.

I love the idea of this team grinding it out and staying on the field to give our defense a better chance to be a success. This offense will be wearing teams down. I look forward to it.

Is Cruz better than Richardson? No way to know...but he's never started an NFL game.

Is Sampson better than Welbourne? No way to know...but he's only started 1 NFL game.

Is Solari better than Saunders? 1st year OC. Highly doubtful but you never know.

Zach, you're just hoping that these are adequate replacements. You have absolutely NO evidence to support your opinion, though.

MOhillbilly
08-22-2006, 02:07 PM
It'd be a damn shame if the league actually starts calling DenLine for the leg whips, trips and rolling....and cut blocks too far away.

it took the refs 10 years to call the niners on it.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:09 PM
It'd be a damn shame if the league actually starts calling DenLine for the leg whips, trips and rolling....and cut blocks too far away.

Cut blocking is legal, and EVERY team does it. As for the other "offenses", every team does those. The only reason the Chiefs beat the Raiders last year was because they got lucky with an inadvertent tripping penalty. So you should love those!

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:10 PM
Is Cruz better than Richardson? No way to know...but he's never started an NFL game.

Is Sampson better than Welbourne? No way to know...but he's only started 1 NFL game.

Is Solari better than Saunders? 1st year OC. Highly doubtful but you never know.

Zach, you're just hoping that these are adequate replacements. You have absolutely NO evidence to support your opinion, though.
As opposed to all of the empirical evidence you have provided. I would say you are hoping we are not good...

jspchief
08-22-2006, 02:14 PM
The one thing I would change?

I'll keep it realistic. This spring we would have made Rocky Bernard an offer he couldn't refuse.

Maybe Gunther does need to go, but ultimately I think the defense needs a little continuity.

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 02:14 PM
By the same token....Ron Dayne, Mike Bell or Taintum bell have never had a complete, successful nfl season. WRs coming off of knee injuries don't routinely put up great numbers the first year back, and 2/5ths of the Browncow Dline is already hurt.

I think upping the ante to Bernard would have been a good choice JSP. He'd be a great C2 DT along with Reed and co.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:19 PM
Ahem...why would I have any reason to be concerned about the Broncos running game? I'll give you a few reasons why I'm not:

Olandis Gary
Rueben Droughns
Mike Anderson

Also, could you help me out and name the AFC West team that had more rushing yards than KC last year?

Now, if Lepsis and Nalen were gone this year, then I'd be concerned...

Why would you be concerned if Nalen were gone? He's not a tackle.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:20 PM
As opposed to all of the empirical evidence you have provided. I would say you are hoping we are not good...

I don't need to provide empirical evidence to support the fact that you are replacing those positions with lesser/unproven talent. That's just a reality.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:21 PM
Why would you be concerned if Nalen were gone? He's not a tackle.

Because Nalen is our best O-Lineman, kind of like Roaf was yours. The comparison I'm making is based on losing 2 of your best o-lineman.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:22 PM
I don't need to provide empirical evidence to support the fact that you are replacing those positions with lesser/unproven talent. That's just a reality.
heh, you might as well have said "I am right because I said so"

And please tell me. I really am curious. When did Welbourne get so good?

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:23 PM
Because Nalen is our best O-Lineman, kind of like Roaf was yours. The comparison I'm making is based on losing 2 of your best o-lineman.
Holy shit Welbourne is better than Shields AND Waters.

Your credibility? Gone.

Go play with Florida Bronco in the sandbox.

Coogs
08-22-2006, 02:23 PM
Maybe Gunther does need to go, but ultimately I think the defense needs a little continuity.

Gunther has his fingerprints all over this defense. Throw out the 3 year break with the Titans, and it is all his. Nearly every single defensive player on the team is of his doings, either from the first go around or the second.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:24 PM
Because Nalen is our best O-Lineman, kind of like Roaf was yours. The comparison I'm making is based on losing 2 of your best o-lineman.

ROFL

So which is it?

I thought tackles are more important than guards?

BTW, we lost Roaf and Welbourn. Brian Waters is our BEST lineman, and Welbourn MIGHT have been the SIXTH-best. At the very least, he was the worst of the starting five.

Get your shit outta here, dumbass.

BucEyedPea
08-22-2006, 02:25 PM
You should have done what the Buc's did in 2002. Hire Jon Gruden away from his current team with an offer he can't refuse to take what you had for a team already and just push it over the top a few notches for a SB.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:25 PM
That was Chief2000-esque right there. Maybe Steve also thinks we should move Ryan Simms to defensive end.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:25 PM
By the same token....Ron Dayne, Mike Bell or Taintum bell have never had a complete, successful nfl season. WRs coming off of knee injuries don't routinely put up great numbers the first year back, and 2/5ths of the Browncow Dline is already hurt.

I think upping the ante to Bernard would have been a good choice JSP. He'd be a great C2 DT along with Reed and co.

True, but there is plenty of evidence to support that the Broncos will have a top rushing offense regardless of who they put in there. It's been proven over and over again for the last 11 years (as if you hadn't noticed). Javon Walker is "expected" to be at 100% by opening day, but obviously that is not certain. Javon Walker at 90% is better than Lelie at 100%. Brown and Warren will be back to start the regular season.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:26 PM
heh, you might as well have said "I am right because I said so"

And please tell me. I really am curious. When did Welbourne get so good?

When did Sampson get so good, is the better question?

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:28 PM
ROFL

So which is it?

I thought tackles are more important than guards?

BTW, we lost Roaf and Welbourn. Brian Waters is our BEST lineman, and Welbourn MIGHT have been the SIXTH-best. At the very least, he was the worst of the starting five.

Get your shit outta here, dumbass.

Waters was better than Roaf? Is Sampson an upgrade over Welbourne?

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:28 PM
When did Sampson get so good, is the better question?
No it isn't you just put Welbourne over Shields AND Waters...

How on earth do you justify that terrible post.

I tell you what. I have been doing this BB thing for a while...we all make dumb posts. Just say it was a mistake or you didn't think it through and lets move on.

You can't be that stupid. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:30 PM
Holy shit Welbourne is better than Shields AND Waters.

Your credibility? Gone.

Go play with Florida Bronco in the sandbox.

I never said that...what I'm saying is that your line from last year was a whole hell of a lot better than what you're putting out there this year.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:30 PM
Waters was better than Roaf? Is Sampson an upgrade over Welbourne?

Waters is ABSOLUTELY better than Roaf. There's no question to anybody that's WATCHING the games. Roaf hasn't been himself for over 2 years.

And Sampson was the opening day starter last year. Welbourn wouldn't have even seen the field if Sampson hadn't had a near-death bout with dehydration.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:31 PM
I never said that...what I'm saying is that your line from last year was a whole hell of a lot better than what you're putting out there this year.
The comparison I'm making is based on losing 2 of your best o-lineman.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:32 PM
I never said that...what I'm saying is that your line from last year was a whole hell of a lot better than what you're putting out there this year.

Actually what you're saying is that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

First it was that we lost both tackles, and then when we pointed out that we still have Shields and Waters, it was the two best linemen. You can't keep your argument straight for 5 minutes between posts.

Seriously, quit now while the hole is only a few feet deep.

Ecto-I
08-22-2006, 02:33 PM
Play all 16 games at Arrowhead.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:34 PM
No it isn't you just put Welbourne over Shields AND Waters...

How on earth do you justify that terrible post.

I tell you what. I have been doing this BB thing for a while...we all make dumb posts. Just say it was a mistake or you didn't think it through and lets move on.

You can't be that stupid. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Zach, you are putting words into my mouth. My point is, I think EVERY Chief starting lineman was a stud last year. So when I said "lose two of your best lineman", I didn't mean "Welbourne is better than Waters and Shields".

When I made the comparison of losing Lepsis and Nalen, I should have said Lepsis and Foster. My bad. I should have made a different comparison.

I just think it's silly that all of you think your blocking 6 (including FB) won't be a severe downgrade from last year.

|Zach|
08-22-2006, 02:36 PM
Zach, you are putting words into my mouth. My point is, I think EVERY Chief starting lineman was a stud last year. So when I said "lose two of your best lineman", I didn't mean "Welbourne is better than Waters and Shields".

When I made the comparison of losing Lepsis and Nalen, I should have said Lepsis and Foster. My bad. I should have made a different comparison.

I just think it's silly that all of you think your blocking 6 (including FB) won't be a severe downgrade from last year.
What a back peddling clown, there was no other way to take that. Please don't ever leave this thread. It just wouldn't be the same.

Who is the best Broncos player? They all are? Aren't they Steve? ROFL

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:37 PM
Waters is ABSOLUTELY better than Roaf. There's no question to anybody that's WATCHING the games. Roaf hasn't been himself for over 2 years.

And Sampson was the opening day starter last year. Welbourn wouldn't have even seen the field if Sampson hadn't had a near-death bout with dehydration.

I watch a lot of Chiefs games. Waters is a stud, but I wouldn't put him in the same strata as Roaf last year.

As far as Sampson goes, you are basing that on his potential. My question for you is, who would have started this year if Welbourn had been back?

I'm not trying to be a dick here and haven't flamed any of you, by they way, so maybe you need to relax.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:40 PM
What a back peddling clown, there was no other way to take that. Please don't ever leave this thread. It just wouldn't be the same.

Who is the best Broncos player? They all are? Aren't they Steve? ROFL

Zach, why do you have to call me a clown? I never said that Welbourn was better than Shields or Waters...you did. You're just trying to twist everything I say in your favor.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:41 PM
I watch a lot of Chiefs games. Waters is a stud, but I wouldn't put him in the same strata as Roaf last year.

As far as Sampson goes, you are basing that on his potential. My question for you is, who would have started this year if Welbourn had been back?

I'm not trying to be a dick here and haven't flamed any of you, by they way, so maybe you need to relax.

Roaf last year? You mean the Roaf that missed 6 games due to a hamstring injury and got burned by speed rushers on more than a few occasions?

Waters is our best offensive linemen. Even Will Shields himself has said so.

And if Welbourn had come back, Sampson would have likely been the starter. He's better. Otherwise Welbourn would have been the REAL starter at some point here. As it stands, he's always been the 2nd or even 3rd option at RT behind not only Sampson, but also stiffs like Chris Bober.

We know you're not trying to be a dick. This is just how we generally treat dumb comments.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:43 PM
Zach, why do you have to call me a clown? I never said that Welbourn was better than Shields or Waters...you did. You're just trying to twist everything I say in your favor.

He's not twisting his words, you are.

Your posts are here for all to see. You must be awful dizzy, as much spinning as you're doing...

Douche Baggins
08-22-2006, 02:44 PM
Steve isn't the sharpest tack.

Bob, you have to admit that, with Roaf retiring (and the fact that he talked Shields out of retirement), Shields has to have the thought in the back of his head. Dude is like a 14 year veteran for chrissakes.

Rain Man
08-22-2006, 02:47 PM
Guys, guys, guys, stop picking on Steve Sewell. He's trying to participate, but it's hard for him since Denver has never had a good offensive lineman. (And no, Steve Sewell, I'm not buying your argument that John Elway would've made a great offensive tackle.)

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:50 PM
He's not twisting his words, you are.

Your posts are here for all to see. You must be awful dizzy, as much spinning as you're doing...

OK, can you quote a post where I state that Welbourn is better than Waters and Shields? I said "two of your best o-lineman", not "welbourn is better than Waters and Shields".

You are replacing Roaf with Turley and Welbourn with Sampson. The reason that Welbourn wasn't the opening day starter last year wasn't because Sampson is some sort of prodigy...it's because he was suspended under the NFL's drug policy.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 02:52 PM
OK, can you quote a post where I state that Welbourn is better than Waters and Shields? I said "two of your best o-lineman", not "welbourn is better than Waters and Shields".

You are replacing Roaf with Turley and Welbourn with Sampson. The reason that Welbourn wasn't the opening day starter last year wasn't because Sampson is some sort of prodigy...it's because he was suspended under the NFL's drug policy.

Like I said, Welbourn has never WON a starting job here. He's always been a backup and started only due to injury.

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 02:53 PM
I'll say this about Welbourne.

I'd prefer he was on the roster this year, because of his versatility, and for the ability to be the 3rd best Offensive Guard on the team...with teh ability to play RT.....thats why I'd want him. I don't know that he's a significant upgrade over any other OT on the team other than Black, and Probably Svitek.

If Bronco fans are allowed the "Denver will have a dominate running game with anyone back there, because they just have inserted players for the last 10 years".....I'd suggest that The Chiefs Offensive line has earned nearly the same level of leaway at this point.

morphius
08-22-2006, 02:53 PM
Would trading orginizations with the Pats count as 1 thing?

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:53 PM
Steve isn't the sharpest tack.

Welcome to ignore, Clayton...LOL

Douche Baggins
08-22-2006, 02:53 PM
For real?

Rain Man
08-22-2006, 02:57 PM
OK, can you quote a post where I state that Welbourn is better than Waters and Shields? I said "two of your best o-lineman", not "welbourn is better than Waters and Shields".


If by "best", you mean "starting", then I agree with you.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:57 PM
Like I said, Welbourn has never WON a starting job here. He's always been a backup and started only due to injury.

You are telling me that your starting RT has lost 19 games to injury over the last 2 seasons? That's how many games Welborn has started out of a possible 22 in his 2 seasons with KC.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 02:59 PM
For real?

No, what's the point of that?

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 03:00 PM
Every single one of those starts was due to an injury somewhere on the oline.....Roaf was hurt, Black went from RT to LT(terrible move) and He went to RT....Sampson gets hurt....He plays RT. Guard gets hurt....He was the guard.

Welbourne was a mauler and versatile, and that is why he'll be missed imo....not because he was a good RT. He'd be a great RG if Shields were injured.

vailpass
08-22-2006, 03:00 PM
Well well well....it was quiet as a church mouse in here after Denver's all around strong performance against the Titans last Saturday.

I could tell most of you had a reality check from that awesome zero point performance your team put on the board.

It's good to see a couple of you have thrown caution to the wind and are running Denver smack even though you know deep down inside that KC will be swept by the Broncos this year. The KC O is missing key parts and what remains is mostly old an tired. The Chiefs efense is lame as it ever was.

Still, you fight on.
Go get 'em Charlie Brown.
Good for you

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:00 PM
If by "best", you mean "starting", then I agree with you.

What's with all the semantics here? The Chiefs had arguably one of the best o-lines in the football for the last several years. Losing 2 lineman off of that line is kind of a big deal...

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 03:01 PM
Denver will not sweep the Chiefs this year. I'll put my money where my mouth is, if you'd like Vail.

Logical
08-22-2006, 03:02 PM
You are telling me that your starting RT has lost 19 games to injury over the last 2 seasons? That's how many games Welborn has started out of a possible 22 in his 2 seasons with KC.

Just my opinion but the logical answer to your question is no, however the illogical assertion could me that they intended to start rookies and it never worked out which also has some foundation in truth.

Chiefnj
08-22-2006, 03:03 PM
If Bronco fans are allowed the "Denver will have a dominate running game with anyone back there, because they just have inserted players for the last 10 years".....I'd suggest that The Chiefs Offensive line has earned nearly the same level of leaway at this point.

It's interesting you say that. Other than Waters have the Chiefs really developed any young linemen in recent years? Roaf was a known commodity and Welbourn had experience as well. Shields has been around and playing at an exceptional level forever. Wiegman had some starting experience in Chicago before coming to KC, but arguably he did improve his game with the Chiefs.

It seems like the recent backups and free agent additions haven't really panned out that well in recent years - Bober, Black, Samson, etc.

There is still time for some of those guys to develop but it seems like the OL that fans have taken for granted since Marty took over may have hit a major bump in the road for the first time in 16 years.

King_Chief_Fan
08-22-2006, 03:03 PM
The posts on this thread are an excellent example of how an idiotic Donk fan can come in here and take a thread hostage and stick his nose where it does not belong.

I thought this was list the 1 thing you would do to improve the chances at a SB.

Aruging with a donkey is like..............arguing with a donkey.

now, back on subject:

I would make GAZ the defensive coordinator

jspchief
08-22-2006, 03:04 PM
What's with all the semantics here? The Chiefs had arguably one of the best o-lines in the football for the last several years. Losing 2 lineman off of that line is kind of a big deal...Semantics aside, Welbourn was the worst O-lineman we had in the starting line-up last year.

To say he was one of our "best" is not accurate. Or at the very least you did a very poor job of communicating your point.

vailpass
08-22-2006, 03:07 PM
Denver will not sweep the Chiefs this year. I'll put my money where my mouth is, if you'd like Vail.

Historically it doesn't matter how good or bad either of our teams are, we each still usually manage to hold home court. Arrowhead is awfully tough in November/December.
Still, there is something about the way KC looks that makes me think it might be worth taking a chance.

What did you have in mind?

vailpass
08-22-2006, 03:09 PM
Semantics aside, Welbourn was the worst O-lineman we had in the starting line-up last year.

To say he was one of our "best" is not accurate. Or at the very least you did a very poor job of communicating your point.

With the exception of the Denver game where Jordan "Matador" Black was forced to play out of position, IMO.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:09 PM
Lesson learned. I'll try to make my point in a much clearer manner next time...

I should have said this:

You are replacing a HOF LT with a guy who has been out of football for 2 years due to a severe back injury. You are starting an RT who has 1 start in his entire NFL career. You are starting a FB who has 0 starts in his entire career.

Oh wait, I already said that.

King_Chief_Fan
08-22-2006, 03:11 PM
Lesson learned. I'll try to make my point in a much clearer manner next time...

I should have said this:

You are replacing a HOF LT with a guy who has been out of football for 2 years due to a severe back injury. You are starting an RT who has 1 start in his entire NFL career. You are starting a FB who has 0 starts in his entire career.

Oh wait, I already said that.

we heard you the first time....now stfu

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 03:11 PM
You are telling me that your starting RT has lost 19 games to injury over the last 2 seasons? That's how many games Welborn has started out of a possible 22 in his 2 seasons with KC.

Sampson started the 1st game last year and didn't make it back until after Week 11 or 12. By that time, he wasn't at all ready to play.

So there's 15 games out of 19 that Wellbourn started due to injury right there.

Try again.

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 03:13 PM
Is there an offensive Line roster in the entire league that is realistically more than 6 deep?
Waters was as much of an unknown as Svitek is now when he was brought to KC...moreso even. Turley isn't a rookie and he's not an unknown....Priest Holmes wasn't an every household name Allstar before coming here to resurect his career after a knee injury either.

DO I think this is the best Oline in KC? Not even close. Is it still better than many in the league? Absolutely.

It's interesting you say that. Other than Waters have the Chiefs really developed any young linemen in recent years? Roaf was a known commodity and Welbourn had experience as well. Shields has been around and playing at an exceptional level forever. Wiegman had some starting experience in Chicago before coming to KC, but arguably he did improve his game with the Chiefs.

It seems like the recent backups and free agent additions haven't really panned out that well in recent years - Bober, Black, Samson, etc.

There is still time for some of those guys to develop but it seems like the OL that fans have taken for granted since Marty took over may have hit a major bump in the road for the first time in 16 years.

sedated
08-22-2006, 03:14 PM
Can you explain, outside of Steve Hutchinson, why OG's don't make as much as OT's? The reality is that OT's are much more valuable than OG's, and you lost both of them.

Because Nalen is our best O-Lineman, kind of like Roaf was yours. The comparison I'm making is based on losing 2 of your best o-lineman.

isn't Nalen a Guard?

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 03:17 PM
well, obviously George Foster is more valuable than Nalen.

Chiefnj
08-22-2006, 03:18 PM
Is there an offensive Line roster in the entire league that is realistically more than 6 deep?
Waters was as much of an unknown as Svitek is now when he was brought to KC...moreso even. Turley isn't a rookie and he's not an unknown....Priest Holmes wasn't an every household name Allstar before coming here to resurect his career after a knee injury either.

DO I think this is the best Oline in KC? Not even close. Is it still better than many in the league? Absolutely.

I guess I am noticing, like the defense, the Chiefs haven't really developed their own OL in recent years. They've done great grabbing other players - Roaf, Weigman and even Welbourn. Aside from Waters they haven't groomed their own draft picks.

They didn't have a developmental player ready to take Roaf's place. They don't appear to have someone ready to take over for either Shields or Waters (Bober is listed as the top backup for both guard spots and has looked like utter crap).

Iowanian
08-22-2006, 03:19 PM
Bober is aweful. I'm hoping the Chiefs realize that Black is either a guard, or a warehouse worker at UPS.

Spicy McHaggis
08-22-2006, 03:22 PM
What would be the one thing I'd change/improve to help the Chiefs win a Super Bowl? Pipe dreams abound.

1. Gregg Williams hired as DC. Gunther retained as linebacker coach. (And yes that counts as one.)

-Or-

2. Tommie Harris or Kevin Williams signs to be a starting DT.

-Or-

3. Torry Holt comes on to be our #1 reciever.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:25 PM
Sampson started the 1st game last year and didn't make it back until after Week 11 or 12. By that time, he wasn't at all ready to play.

So there's 15 games out of 19 that Wellbourn started due to injury right there.

Try again.

Wellbourn:

2004:
GP: 10
GS: 10

Who was he replacing in KC in 2004? Black started 4 games and Bober started 2.

2005:
GP: 12
GS: 9

He was suspended for the first 4 games of the season. Hmmm, could that have had anything to do with Sampson starting to open the season...No, of course not. Sampson was always the starter there, no biggie with that suspension.

Rain Man
08-22-2006, 03:26 PM
Well well well....it was quiet as a church mouse in here after Denver's all around strong performance against the Titans last Saturday.


That's because no one watched that game. The biggest star on the field was Billy Volek or Tolek or whatever his name was.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:28 PM
isn't Nalen a Guard?

It was a faulty comparison and I already got hammered on it. My bad. I'm trying to have some reasonable, non-flaming football discussion with rival fans here.

sedated
08-22-2006, 03:31 PM
Who was he replacing in KC in 2004?

Tait

(thanks Carl, for bickering with your former 1st round pick's agent. Wouldn't Tait look good now?)

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Wellbourn:

2004:
GP: 10
GS: 10

Who was he replacing in KC in 2004? Black started 4 games and Bober started 2.

2005:
GP: 12
GS: 9

He was suspended for the first 4 games of the season. Hmmm, could that have had anything to do with Sampson starting to open the season...No, of course not. Sampson was always the starter there, no biggie with that suspension.

Sampson was declared the starter prior to Welbourn's suspension.

And it doesn't matter who he replaced in 2004. The simple fact is that he replaced SOMEBODY. He wasn't the starter.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Tait

(thanks Carl, for bickering with your former 1st round pick's agent. Wouldn't Tait look good now?)

Bober was the opening day starter.

sedated
08-22-2006, 03:33 PM
It was a faulty comparison and I already got hammered on it. My bad. I'm trying to have some reasonable, non-flaming football discussion with rival fans here.

wtf?

you were talking out of both sides of your mouth and got called on it.

don't be sad.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 03:34 PM
wtf?

you were talking out of both sides of your mouth and we called you on it.

He's invoking the "Proctor defense".

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:35 PM
wtf?

you were talking out of both sides of your mouth and we called you on it.

Apparently I overvalued Welbourn and should have done more research on the topic before I said anything. I apologized for that...can we move on? I'm certainly not trying to flame here.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:36 PM
He's invoking the "Proctor defense".

What's that?

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 03:37 PM
What's that?

ROFL

Welcome aboard!

It's much, much too long to explain...

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:40 PM
ROFL

Welcome aboard!

It's much, much too long to explain...

You have to admit I'm not flaming here. You obviously know a lot more about Welbourn than I do. There were a lot of folks (including some on this board) who were making his retirement out to be a big deal.

htismaqe
08-22-2006, 03:41 PM
You have to admit I'm not flaming here. You obviously know a lot more about Welbourn than I do. There were a lot of folks (including some on this board) who were making his retirement out to be a big deal.

It's all good man.

It's not like Welbourn sent you a care package or you threatened to kick anyone's ass...

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:43 PM
It's all good man.

It's not like Welbourn sent you a care package or you threatened to kick anyone's ass...

I'll kick anyone's ass who says that Welbourn is a scrub, damnit!

sedated
08-22-2006, 03:47 PM
There were a lot of folks (including some on this board) who were making his retirement out to be a big deal.

who?

I haven't heard that name since he retired.

(correction: hadn't)

Steve Sewell
08-22-2006, 03:53 PM
who?

I haven't heard that name since he retired.

(correction: hadn't)

LOL...post #7

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=145974&highlight=welbourn

vailpass
08-22-2006, 04:34 PM
He's invoking the "Proctor defense".

ROFL