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Laz
09-02-2006, 03:19 PM
PENTAGON REVIEW | Civil strife is spreading

The Defense Department study is released as Bush is trying to shore up support for the war.

Measuring Security and Stability in Iraq
By DAVID WOOD
The Baltimore Sun

WASHINGTON | Pentagon officials on Friday sketched a bloody Iraq landscape of sectarian violence spreading beyond Baghdad and assassinations and terrorist bombings by increasingly entrenched private militias and death squads.

“This is probably the most complex combat environment we have seen since the war began,” said Rear Adm. William Sullivan, the top strategic planner for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

=============

Hard data

•More than 300 Iraqis have died in sectarian violence this week.

•Attacks have risen from about 400 a week in April-June 2004 to nearly 800 a week.

•Attacks on civilians are rising and now constitute about 15 percent of the total.
=================

The severity and breadth of the Defense Department report, which is required four times a year by Congress, appeared to undercut recent statements by President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that conditions in Iraq are difficult but that steady progress is being made.

The 63-page report concluded that while the sustained violence between ethnic and religious groups is now the greatest threat to Iraq’s security and stability and could lead to civil war, the Sunni insurgency remains “potent and viable.”

“Conditions that could lead to civil war exist in Iraq, specifically in and around Baghdad, and concern about civil war within the Iraqi civilian population has increased in recent months,” it says.

Anthony Cordesman, senior analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said Friday: “This is a report that provides a good deal more realism” than recent administration statements.

“In truth, it’s not a matter of American will that determines whether we win or lose in Iraq, but Iraqi governance, and the most we can do is to support and encourage that effort,” Cordesman said

The grim thrust of the report underscored that even with the establishment of an elected Iraqi government under a new constitution, chaos and bloodshed have increased, driving growing numbers of families from their homes and jobs.

In the period covered by the assessment, roughly mid-May through mid-August, the number of weekly attacks on civilians rose 15 percent from the previous three-month period, while Iraqi casualties shot up 51 percent.

Sunni and Shiite groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq and Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr’s al-Mahdi army, “are increasingly locked in retaliatory violence and are contesting control of ethnically mixed areas to expand their existing areas of influence,” the report said.

“Death squads and terrorists are locked in mutually reinforcing cycles of sectarian strife,” it stated.

Bush and others argue that the bloody conflict is concentrated in Baghdad, where U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces are making a major push to quell the violence. The Pentagon assessment says that sectarian bloodletting “is gradually spreading north into Diyala Province and Kirkuk as Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish groups compete for provincial influence.”

The U.S. strategy for prevailing over the rising violence and worsening conditions in Iraq, as explained this week by Bush and other administration officials, is for the 140,000 American troops in Iraq to train and fight alongside Iraqi security forces while the central government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki gathers control of the fractious nation.

U.S. officials are relying on al-Maliki to get the private militias disarmed and off the streets, a politically tricky business given that government ministries and the Legislature are threaded with powerful politicians connected with sectarian organizations.

The United States will not undertake the potentially dangerous job of dismantling the militias, Pentagon officials said.

Peter Rodman, a top Pentagon policymaker, said the fact that there is a national government in place is encouraging.

Iraqi security forces are operating out on the streets, and Iraq’s economy is forecast to grow 4 percent, he added, citing a World Bank estimate.

But the report suggests a darker picture.

Corruption in government ministries “has hampered” their performance, and the Iraqi government has difficulty prosecuting cases because of a shortage of about 750 judges and because of intimidation of judges and prosecutors.

The number of national police battalions able to lead operations has dropped from six battalions to two since last spring, the report said.

Officials also acknowledged that Iraqi police ranks have been heavily infiltrated by militia loyalists.


•The report on Iraq’s security and stability is online at www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs/Security-Stabilty-ReportAug29r1.pdf

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/front/15422452.htm
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banyon
09-02-2006, 03:25 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/strangerfruit/upload/2006/05/mission-accomplished.jpg

|Zach|
09-02-2006, 03:34 PM
800\week?

Thats crazy.

Brock
09-02-2006, 03:40 PM
I was afraid I was going to be reading about American casualties. Thank God.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2006, 03:59 PM
You know what is sad....most people won't actually read that whole report. They will focus on the bad news highlights that will be sensationalized and spotlighted by the mainstream media.

For those of you who aren't lazy cowards, I have a challenge for you: look over the whole report. Like I did.

There is a helluva lot of good news tucked away in there that you won't ever get to see in the mainstream press. :shake:

Too bad.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2006, 04:09 PM
800\week?

Thats crazy.
Yeah, but 81% of those attacks are coming in areas with only 37% of the population.

Wanna guess where?

In other words, in the Islamo-Fascist Looney regions of Iraq (only four provinces,) you are 8 times more likely to be attacked.....? :shake:

In other words, things are pretty damn good in 14 of the 18 provinces....in other words, move away from the nutcases if you want to be safer.

(check the chart on pg. 32 of the PDF document put out by DoD)

|Zach|
09-02-2006, 04:11 PM
For those of you who aren't lazy cowards
I thought I was watching Colbert Report for a little bit...

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2006, 04:37 PM
I thought I was watching Colbert Report for a little bit...

Don't watch it, so I don't get it...

Eh, that's my way of trying to get people to dig into this.... :shrug:

Unfortunately, like I said, most won't.

Adept Havelock
09-02-2006, 04:38 PM
I thought I was watching Colbert Report for a little bit...

:hmmm: I know Kotter has a number of personalities, but I don't think that's one of them.

memyselfI
09-02-2006, 04:42 PM
Someone better brief the CIC cuz he's sayin something entirely different.

Bowser
09-02-2006, 04:47 PM
Yeah, but 81% of those attacks are coming in areas with only 37% of the population.

Wanna guess where?

In other words, in the Islamo-Fascist Looney regions of Iraq (only four provinces,) you are 8 times more likely to be attacked.....? :shake:

In other words, things are pretty damn good in 14 of the 18 provinces....in other words, move away from the nutcases if you want to be safer.

(check the chart on pg. 32 of the PDF document put out by DoD)

I don't think I'll look into a timeshare over there just yet, Mr. Bright and Shiny.

jettio
09-02-2006, 07:38 PM
Yeah, but 81% of those attacks are coming in areas with only 37% of the population.

Wanna guess where?

In other words, in the Islamo-Fascist Looney regions of Iraq (only four provinces,) you are 8 times more likely to be attacked.....? :shake:

In other words, things are pretty damn good in 14 of the 18 provinces....in other words, move away from the nutcases if you want to be safer.

(check the chart on pg. 32 of the PDF document put out by DoD)

You are talking about an area that has been populated for thousands of years and that is mostly desert.

I don't think asking the Iraqis to mimic the suburban flight that occurred in the United States is the solution.

Except for educated Kurds, Nearly all of the folks that could afford moving into your new subdivisions have already skedaddled from that hell-hole of a country.

Nobody has stopped B*sh from being effective in doing the job. He has gotten everything he has asked for, except for a f*ckin' clue.

I don't quite understand why there are so many sissies are crying about the media. Seems to me that the fear that motivates comments about the media is that people that bought into a dumbazz idea want to keep believing that the idiots they trusted are trustworthy, when they are, in fact, proven f*ckin' failures.

Quit being afraid that a majority of American people will be able to figure out the obvious. Americans that have common sense have had to deal with the fact that a bare majority placed their faith in the Stooges.

Quit acting like a pussy, the dumb have had their day.

patteeu
09-02-2006, 07:40 PM
Someone better brief the CIC cuz he's sayin something entirely different.

The CIC's message is more up to date. That might account for part of the difference.

Pitt Gorilla
09-02-2006, 09:15 PM
For those of you who aren't lazy cowards, I have a challenge for you: look over the whole report. Like I did. Wait. You're a lazy coward and you read the report; I'm so confused...



:)

Adept Havelock
09-02-2006, 10:21 PM
Wait. You're a lazy coward and you read the report; I'm so confused...



:)

ROFL ROFL ROFL

CRONUS
09-03-2006, 12:28 AM
It is too bad the experiment is failing but a blind man could have seen this coming. Unfortunately the Bush admin is blind, deaf and dumb, as well as ignorant.

CRONUS
09-03-2006, 12:31 AM
Yeah, but 81% of those attacks are coming in areas with only 37% of the population.

Wanna guess where?

In other words, in the Islamo-Fascist Looney regions of Iraq (only four provinces,) you are 8 times more likely to be attacked.....? :shake:

In other words, things are pretty damn good in 14 of the 18 provinces....in other words, move away from the nutcases if you want to be safer.

(check the chart on pg. 32 of the PDF document put out by DoD)

So if 37% of the US was in chaos you would want 111 million people to move to avoid the chaos. Great idea.

Mr. Kotter
09-03-2006, 12:41 AM
So if 37% of the US was in chaos you would want 111 million people to move to avoid the chaos. Great idea.
Think again, Einstein.

The majority of those commiting the attacks are attacking a "minority" in those regions. In other words, the majority in those regions are guilty of attacking/or sympathetic to the attackers.....but the MINORITY in those regions are being attacked.

Sorry for you, but if you would STAY in such a situation--you are asking to be targeted; be my guest.

Personally, I'd be among the "smart" minority seeking refuge elsewhere--and a safer solution. :)

CRONUS
09-03-2006, 01:01 AM
Think again, Einstein.

The majority of those commiting the attacks are attacking a "minority" in those regions. In other words, the majority in those regions are guilty of attacking/or sympathetic to the attackers.....but the MINORITY in those regions are being attacked.

Sorry for you, but if you would STAY in such a situation--you are asking to be targeted; be my guest.

Personally, I'd be among the "smart" minority seeking refuge elsewhere--and a safer solution. :)

So then you are saying that the equivalent of say 100 million are creating the chaos and 10 million (for a 10% minority) Americans should move? Still a great idea and this gives you an idea of scope of the failure. Pretty massive.

Mr. Kotter
09-03-2006, 01:22 AM
So then you are saying that the equivalent of say 100 million are creating the chaos and 10 million (for a 10% minority) Americans should move? Still a great idea and this gives you an idea of scope of the failure. Pretty massive.
If I could keep me and my family safe by moving to a nearby province, even as 1 of 1,500,000 (in this case, in Iraq).....I'd be fine with that if that is what it takes, mememe II.

;)

CRONUS
09-03-2006, 01:33 AM
If I could keep me and my family safe by moving to a nearby province, even as 1 of 1,500,000 (in this case, in Iraq).....I'd be fine with that if that is what it takes, mememe II.

;)

Hey what about this idea, get the hell out of their country and let them decide how to fix their problems.?

Mr. Kotter
09-03-2006, 02:06 AM
Hey what about this idea, get the hell out of their country and let them decide how to fix their problems.?

I'm fine with that too; but we should make sure psycho radical fundamentalist bastards with bombs don't disrupt the process anymore than they have..... :shrug:

;)

Adept Havelock
09-03-2006, 10:47 AM
I'm fine with that too; but we should make sure psycho radical fundamentalist bastards with bombs don't disrupt the process anymore than they have..... :shrug:

;)


Why? If they are ready to take control of their own military, seems to me they are ready to take responsibility for their own country.

I have no problem with us offering them all the money, training, and munitions they need. AFAIC, it's time for them to "man up" and fight this battle themselves.

They have their country. Let them bleed to keep it. After all, something you earn yourself has much more (perceived) value than something given. :harumph:

BucEyedPea
09-03-2006, 11:26 AM
They have their country. Let them bleed to keep it. After all, something you earn yourself has much more (perceived) value than something given. :harumph:

Wow! How dare you apply conservative principles to this situation! :)

Brock
09-03-2006, 11:31 AM
Why? If they are ready to take control of their own military, seems to me they are ready to take responsibility for their own country.


I agree. We need to me moving more to an oversight role.

Bowser
09-03-2006, 12:01 PM
If I could keep me and my family safe by moving to a nearby province, even as 1 of 1,500,000 (in this case, in Iraq).....I'd be fine with that if that is what it takes, mememe II.

;)

Kotter's responses remind of the old joke where a man reads an article stating that 90% of all accidents happen within 5 miles of home, so he decides to move.

:)

bunnytrdr
09-04-2006, 02:30 AM
Where are all the threads rejoicing over the capture of 20 cockroaches in Iraq?

CHIEF4EVER
09-04-2006, 03:44 AM
Where are all the threads rejoicing over the capture of 20 cockroaches in Iraq?

Not very popular with the defeatists. It is an election cycle and thus ANY success on the part of our troops is merely 'propoganda' designed to 'mislead' the public as to the relevance of our boys' sacrifice to defend us against further attacks. Leave out that we haven't been successfully attacked on our soil since 9/11. THAT isn't significant at all.

banyon
09-04-2006, 10:25 AM
Not very popular with the defeatists. It is an election cycle and thus ANY success on the part of our troops is merely 'propoganda' designed to 'mislead' the public as to the relevance of our boys' sacrifice to defend us against further attacks. Leave out that we haven't been successfully attacked on our soil since 9/11. THAT isn't significant at all.


Yeah, stupid libural media! How dare they report on the facts of an ever-increasing cycle of violence and disruption!

CHIEF4EVER
09-04-2006, 12:01 PM
Yeah, stupid libural media! How dare they report on the facts of an ever-increasing cycle of violence and disruption!

Yeah, and how dare those bastards report the successes that the American soldier......wait, never mind. They don't.

bunnytrdr
09-04-2006, 12:58 PM
Yeah, stupid libural media! How dare they report on the facts of an ever-increasing cycle of violence and disruption!Yeah, who started the cycle? Multiple terrorist attacks against us by Al Qaeda.

Who were the 20 that we rolled up in IRAQ? Al qaeda.

You act like if we just stopppit, just stoppit, and try to understand our enemey, and why they hate us so. If we learned how to show them we care, then they wouldn't want to kill us. WRONG. They want us, in the words of that lilly white Islamic convert TRAITOR, to convert or die.

I have made my choice, I will never convert to such a peaceful religion as Islam.

Ugly Duck
09-08-2006, 11:50 PM
our boys' sacrifice to defend us against further attacks

?? That falacy has long been discredited. Even MonkeyBoy sez there was no connection between Sodom & Bin Hidin. The WMD thing was a sham. Get with the program.... the neocons had to change the excuse to "freeing the Iraqi people." Our boyz are now being sacrificed to bring democracy to Iraq.

CHIEF4EVER
09-09-2006, 05:09 AM
?? That falacy has long been discredited.

Really? By whom? No buildings have been destroyed and no civilians killed here in the good ole USA in 5 years. Sems to me the idea of fighting the enemy somewhere other than here is working.

Even MonkeyBoy sez there was no connection between Sodom & Bin Hidin. The WMD thing was a sham.

You mean other than the 500 cannisters of Sarin and Mustard gas that were found.


Get with the program.... the neocons had to change the excuse to "freeing the Iraqi people." Our boyz are now being sacrificed to bring democracy to Iraq.

:rolleyes:

Laz
09-09-2006, 11:02 AM
You mean other than the 500 cannisters of Sarin and Mustard gas that were found.
you mean ....... old, rusted cannisters with TRACES of gas left on them bury under the sand.


hardly imminent threat

Hydrae
09-09-2006, 11:50 AM
Really? By whom? No buildings have been destroyed and no civilians killed here in the good ole USA in 5 years. Sems to me the idea of fighting the enemy somewhere other than here is working.

:rolleyes:

How many building here in the "good ole USA" were destroyed and how many civilians killed in the 5 years before 9/11? Sorry, but that is a misleading argument.

jiveturkey
09-09-2006, 12:10 PM
So if God forbid that there is another attack and any point in our future we will then be allowed to call this mission a failure???

I've recently heard the conservative argument move towards a need to be more ruthless (but not as ruthless as Sadam because that's why were there, he was mean). ISo if we need to be more ruthless then we need to find someone that's only an 8 out 10 on the mean scale and put them in power. They can then kill and/or maim all who oppose.