Wait, you mean the Iraqis actually want unity....

[CHIEF4EVER]

......and it is just a few extremists causing the trouble? You mean the left wing mainstream media has only been reporting their biased bullshit to further their political agendas (in other words - lying their asses off by failing to report the ENTIRE truth)?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_on_a_necklace

Iraq women treasure map-shaped necklaces By RAWYA RAGEH, Associated Press WriterSat Sep 2, 3:24 PM ET

Roba al-Asaly fingers the sliver of gold on her necklace and explains that it reminds her of a place "that's not there anymore."The gold is shaped like the map of Iraq, and at a time when sectarian violence has fanned fears of civil war, it has become a gesture of defiance and of yearning for national unity.It is seen on the streets and on television. Anchorwomen wear it while reading the news on Al-Iraqiya and Al-Sharqiya, Iraqi TV stations that are secular and more tolerant of women's jewelry."I hold on to it with my hand as if I'm holding on to the country I once knew," said al-Asaly, a 26-year-old Shiite Muslim accountant. "A place where people were not identified by their sect, a place where bombs didn't go off every other minute."The map necklaces, in gold or silver, were on sale here even before the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003, but gained popularity in the months after the U.S.-led invasion. Now, as sectarian violence intensifies, jeweler Rafaa Ali says his shop in central Baghdad makes about 3,000 a week and can barely meet demand."It's like the more abnormal the situation becomes, the more demand increases," Ali said.The necklaces cost the equivalent of $15 in silver, and $100 in gold. In neighboring Jordan and Syria, where hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have fled to escape the violence, they serve as beacons bringing exiles together.The pendants took on greater meaning after the slaying of 30-year-old Atwar Bahjat, a correspondent for the Arab satellite news network Al-Arabiya.Bahjat, a Sunni, wore a veil on the air, along with a map necklace. She was abducted along with her cameraman and technician Feb. 22 while reporting on the bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad. Their bullet-riddled bodies were found the next day.Many women started wearing map necklaces in tribute to Bahjat's memory.Some fear that with the country sliding toward possible division, their necklaces may become collectors' items."Who knows how long Iraq will remain looking like this?" said Asmaa Hassan Ali, a Sunni 24-year-old graduate of Baghdad University."Frankly, it's a pretty piece of jewelry," she said. "It's also my way of showing how I love my country the way it is and I want it to stay like that: undivided."Basma al-Khateeb, who used to run the Iraqi operation of the United Nations Development Fund for Women, said, "It's the threat that everyone senses is coming — tearing the land and people of Iraq apart."She always wears her map necklace, and talking about it sets her off on a long discussion of what's wrong with Iraq and its newly elected leaders, and her conviction that wherever there is conflict, women are the natural victims, "trying hard to secure their family's land."For Santa Michael, a correspondent for Ashour, the Christian TV broadcaster, wearing the map is her way of making a political protest."Officials now speak in the name of their sects, not in the name of the country," she said. "Whenever I say my name and people say, 'Oh, you must be Christian,' I show my pendant and say: 'I'm Iraqi.'"Michael says when people see her necklace they give her a thumbs-up and say "Afiya," which loosely translates as "Bravo." Her mother urged her to stop wearing it after Bahjat's slaying and after the February kidnapping of another woman TV correspondent, Reem Zaeed, who also was wearing a map necklace when she was snatched. Her whereabouts remain unknown. "But I refuse to take it off," Michael said. "They will be taking it off my body after I die."

[jettio]

......and it is just a few extremists causing the trouble? You mean the left wing mainstream media has only been reporting their biased bullshit to further their political agendas (in other words - lying their asses off by failing to report the ENTIRE truth)?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_on_a_necklace

Iraq women treasure map-shaped necklaces By RAWYA RAGEH, Associated Press WriterSat Sep 2, 3:24 PM ET

Roba al-Asaly fingers the sliver of gold on her necklace and explains that it reminds her of a place "that's not there anymore."The gold is shaped like the map of Iraq, and at a time when sectarian violence has fanned fears of civil war, it has become a gesture of defiance and of yearning for national unity.It is seen on the streets and on television. Anchorwomen wear it while reading the news on Al-Iraqiya and Al-Sharqiya, Iraqi TV stations that are secular and more tolerant of women's jewelry."I hold on to it with my hand as if I'm holding on to the country I once knew," said al-Asaly, a 26-year-old Shiite Muslim accountant. "A place where people were not identified by their sect, a place where bombs didn't go off every other minute."The map necklaces, in gold or silver, were on sale here even before the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003, but gained popularity in the months after the U.S.-led invasion. Now, as sectarian violence intensifies, jeweler Rafaa Ali says his shop in central Baghdad makes about 3,000 a week and can barely meet demand."It's like the more abnormal the situation becomes, the more demand increases," Ali said.The necklaces cost the equivalent of $15 in silver, and $100 in gold. In neighboring Jordan and Syria, where hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have fled to escape the violence, they serve as beacons bringing exiles together.The pendants took on greater meaning after the slaying of 30-year-old Atwar Bahjat, a correspondent for the Arab satellite news network Al-Arabiya.Bahjat, a Sunni, wore a veil on the air, along with a map necklace. She was abducted along with her cameraman and technician Feb. 22 while reporting on the bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad. Their bullet-riddled bodies were found the next day.Many women started wearing map necklaces in tribute to Bahjat's memory.Some fear that with the country sliding toward possible division, their necklaces may become collectors' items."Who knows how long Iraq will remain looking like this?" said Asmaa Hassan Ali, a Sunni 24-year-old graduate of Baghdad University."Frankly, it's a pretty piece of jewelry," she said. "It's also my way of showing how I love my country the way it is and I want it to stay like that: undivided."Basma al-Khateeb, who used to run the Iraqi operation of the United Nations Development Fund for Women, said, "It's the threat that everyone senses is coming — tearing the land and people of Iraq apart." She always wears her map necklace, and talking about it sets her off on a long discussion of what's wrong with Iraq and its newly elected leaders, and her conviction that wherever there is conflict, women are the natural victims, "trying hard to secure their family's land."For Santa Michael, a correspondent for Ashour, the Christian TV broadcaster, wearing the map is her way of making a political protest."Officials now speak in the name of their sects, not in the name of the country," she said. "Whenever I say my name and people say, 'Oh, you must be Christian,' I show my pendant and say: 'I'm Iraqi.'" Michael says when people see her necklace they give her a thumbs-up and say "Afiya," which loosely translates as "Bravo." Her mother urged her to stop wearing it after Bahjat's slaying and after the February kidnapping of another woman TV correspondent, Reem Zaeed, who also was wearing a map necklace when she was snatched. Her whereabouts remain unknown. "But I refuse to take it off," Michael said. "They will be taking it off my body after I die."

Do you think that the article is an endorsement of the current Iraqi government that we installed?

Seems like the female heroes of the article are not blaming extremists as much as they are blaming the new government leaders.

Give literacy a chance. :titus: :Peace:

[CHIEF4EVER]

Do you think that the article is an endorsement of the current Iraqi government that we installed?

No and I never said it was. Give literacy a chance.

Seems like the female heroes of the article are not blaming extremists as much as they are blaming the new government leaders.

They are blaming neither. They are simply stating they want IRAQ to remain IRAQ and not a splintered country. Give literacy a chance.

[banyon]

......and it is just a few extremists causing the trouble? You mean the left wing mainstream media has only been reporting their biased bullshit to further their political agendas (in other words - lying their asses off by failing to report the ENTIRE truth)?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_on_a_necklace

Iraq women treasure map-shaped necklaces By RAWYA RAGEH, Associated Press WriterSat Sep 2, 3:24 PM ET

Roba al-Asaly fingers the sliver of gold on her necklace and explains that it reminds her of a place "that's not there anymore."The gold is shaped like the map of Iraq, and at a time when sectarian violence has fanned fears of civil war, it has become a gesture of defiance and of yearning for national unity.It is seen on the streets and on television. Anchorwomen wear it while reading the news on Al-Iraqiya and Al-Sharqiya, Iraqi TV stations that are secular and more tolerant of women's jewelry."I hold on to it with my hand as if I'm holding on to the country I once knew," said al-Asaly, a 26-year-old Shiite Muslim accountant. "A place where people were not identified by their sect, a place where bombs didn't go off every other minute."The map necklaces, in gold or silver, were on sale here even before the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003, but gained popularity in the months after the U.S.-led invasion. Now, as sectarian violence intensifies, jeweler Rafaa Ali says his shop in central Baghdad makes about 3,000 a week and can barely meet demand."It's like the more abnormal the situation becomes, the more demand increases," Ali said.The necklaces cost the equivalent of $15 in silver, and $100 in gold. In neighboring Jordan and Syria, where hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have fled to escape the violence, they serve as beacons bringing exiles together.The pendants took on greater meaning after the slaying of 30-year-old Atwar Bahjat, a correspondent for the Arab satellite news network Al-Arabiya.Bahjat, a Sunni, wore a veil on the air, along with a map necklace. She was abducted along with her cameraman and technician Feb. 22 while reporting on the bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad. Their bullet-riddled bodies were found the next day.Many women started wearing map necklaces in tribute to Bahjat's memory.Some fear that with the country sliding toward possible division, their necklaces may become collectors' items."Who knows how long Iraq will remain looking like this?" said Asmaa Hassan Ali, a Sunni 24-year-old graduate of Baghdad University."Frankly, it's a pretty piece of jewelry," she said. "It's also my way of showing how I love my country the way it is and I want it to stay like that: undivided."Basma al-Khateeb, who used to run the Iraqi operation of the United Nations Development Fund for Women, said, "It's the threat that everyone senses is coming — tearing the land and people of Iraq apart."She always wears her map necklace, and talking about it sets her off on a long discussion of what's wrong with Iraq and its newly elected leaders, and her conviction that wherever there is conflict, women are the natural victims, "trying hard to secure their family's land."For Santa Michael, a correspondent for Ashour, the Christian TV broadcaster, wearing the map is her way of making a political protest."Officials now speak in the name of their sects, not in the name of the country," she said. "Whenever I say my name and people say, 'Oh, you must be Christian,' I show my pendant and say: 'I'm Iraqi.'"Michael says when people see her necklace they give her a thumbs-up and say "Afiya," which loosely translates as "Bravo." Her mother urged her to stop wearing it after Bahjat's slaying and after the February kidnapping of another woman TV correspondent, Reem Zaeed, who also was wearing a map necklace when she was snatched. Her whereabouts remain unknown. "But I refuse to take it off," Michael said. "They will be taking it off my body after I die."

Can you explain how you draw your conclusions about media lies and how swell things are going in Iraq from the article you posted about necklace sales? :spock:

[CHIEF4EVER]

Can you explain how you draw your conclusions about media lies and how swell things are going in Iraq from the article you posted about necklace sales? :spock:

1) When is the last time you heard a story like this on the evening news? How about....ohhhhhhhh.....never. Omitting the truth is the same as telling a bald faced lie, just using a different method.

2) I never said things were going "swell" in Iraq. I merely am pointing out that a lot of positive things are happening there that make the "let's pull out of this 'quagmire', the Iraqis hate us, doom and gloom white flag raisers" look really stupid. The majority of Iraqis want to remain IRAQIS, versus getting embroiled in an "imminent" ROFL civil war and fracturing their country.

[Bowser]

1) When is the last time you heard a story like this on the evening news? How about....ohhhhhhhh.....never. Omitting the truth is the same as telling a bald faced lie, just using a different method.

And yet you still support the current administration? Strange.

[CHIEF4EVER]

And yet you still support the current administration? Strange.

Refresh my memory, where did I post whom I support one way or the other? And what, besides deflecting from the primary subject, is the purpose of making such an asssertion?

[banyon]

1) When is the last time you heard a story like this on the evening news? How about....ohhhhhhhh.....never. Omitting the truth is the same as telling a bald faced lie, just using a different method.

2) I never said things were going "swell" in Iraq. I merely am pointing out that a lot of positive things are happening there that make the "let's pull out of this 'quagmire', the Iraqis hate us, doom and gloom white flag raisers" look really stupid. The majority of Iraqis want to remain IRAQIS, versus getting embroiled in an "imminent" ROFL civil war and fracturing their country.

By all means then, more reporting on jewelry sales and less on the irrelevant deaths of U.S. Service personnel and Iraqis. :rolleyes:

They are omitting stories about the different types of ant species that flourish in Tikrit also. Does that make them liars? Or people that can't report on every successful jeweler/ ant colony story?

...Not sure why you are laughing at the "imminent civil war" it not just "teh moonbats" saying that at this point.

[CHIEF4EVER]

By all means then, more reporting on jewelry sales and less on the irrelevant deaths of U.S. Service personnel and Iraqis. :rolleyes:

Apparently you missed the primary message of the article.

They are omitting stories about the different types of ant species that flourish in Tikrit also. Does that make them liars? Or people that can't report on every successful jeweler/ ant colony story?

As different species of ant colonies are not the subject of this debate, they are irrelevant as you likely surmised whilst banging on the keys of your computer. The liberal media reports on nothing but doom and gloom as it suits their underlying purpose but fail to report the full story....THAT is what makes them disingenuous. At no time did they report on the doom and gloom of ant colony propigation and thus omitting the other side of said propigation is irrelevant.

...Not sure why you are laughing at the "imminent civil war" it not just "teh moonbats" saying that at this point.

From page 2 of the liberal debating handbook ---> :rolleyes:

[banyon]

Apparently you missed the primary message of the article.



As different species of ant colonies are not the subject of this debate, they are irrelevant as you likely surmised whilst banging on the keys of your computer. The liberal media reports on nothing but doom and gloom as it suits their underlying purpose but fail to report the full story....THAT is what makes them disingenuous. At no time did they report on the doom and gloom of ant colony propigation and thus omitting the other side of said propigation is irrelevant.



From page 2 of the liberal debating handbook ---> :rolleyes:

Right. It's all the liberal media's fault.

I guess I agree. That liberal media trumpeted and ushered in the war in the first place and bends over backward to support whatever asiinie claims put forth by government officials without holding them to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

[PunkinDrublic]

You need to take a journalism 101 class. The news is always going to report on tragedies and deaths before they report good news. It has nothing to do with this liberal media myth that you moronic neocons like to cling to.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Right. It's all the liberal media's fault.

Agree to a point.

I guess I agree. That liberal media trumpeted and ushered in the war in the first place and bends over backward to support whatever asiinie claims put forth by government officials without holding them to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Scrutiny is one thing Banyon and it is a necessary check to keep everyone honest. However, it is no longer 'scrutiny' when information is spun in a partisan and dishonest manner to make a political point. At that point it becomes propaganda. Objectivity is the key to respectable journalism and that selfsame objectivity is in short supply lately. On both sides to be fair. However, the liberal media spins nearly every story to bash their conservative opponents 'with a silk glove' every chance they get, and to deny that is utterly disingenuous.

[CHIEF4EVER]

You need to take a journalism 101 class. The news is always going to report on tragedies and deaths before they report good news. It has nothing to do with this liberal media myth that you moronic neocons like to cling to.

I would say you need to take the same class in addition to an ethics class. Oh, BTW, I am a CONSERVATIVE....nothing remotely NEO about it. You may now return to drooling on your shirt.

[Laz]

the liberal media!!!!!!!!!!!


http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8610/cryfc1.gif

[banyon]

Agree to a point.



ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Scrutiny is one thing Banyon and it is a necessary check to keep everyone honest. However, it is no longer 'scrutiny' when information is spun in a partisan and dishonest manner to make a political point. At that point it becomes propaganda. Objectivity is the key to respectable journalism and that selfsame objectivity is in short supply lately. On both sides to be fair. However, the liberal media spins nearly every story to bash their conservative opponents 'with a silk glove' every chance they get, and to deny that is utterly disingenuous.

There is a critique of the media today from the left and the right.

To pretend the right has the only critique is also disingenuous.

[PunkinDrublic]

Scrutiny is one thing Banyon and it is a necessary check to keep everyone honest. However, it is no longer 'scrutiny' when information is spun in a partisan and dishonest manner to make a political point. At that point it becomes propaganda. Objectivity is the key to respectable journalism and that selfsame objectivity is in short supply lately. On both sides to be fair. However, the liberal media spins nearly every story to bash their conservative opponents 'with a silk glove' every chance they get, and to deny that is utterly disingenuous.

You've got nothing to backup your baseless claims. An Iraqi woman selling necklaces doesn't mean or signify shit. And yes you are a neocon because no true conservative would support the way we've thrown away money and resources in occupying Iraq which in my view and many others views has actually hurt our efforts to thwart terrorism.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Scrutiny is one thing Banyon and it is a necessary check to keep everyone honest. However, it is no longer 'scrutiny' when information is spun in a partisan and dishonest manner to make a political point. At that point it becomes propaganda. Objectivity is the key to respectable journalism and that selfsame objectivity is in short supply lately. On both sides to be fair. However, the liberal media spins nearly every story to bash their conservative opponents 'with a silk glove' every chance they get, and to deny that is utterly disingenuous.

You've got nothing to backup your baseless claims. An Iraqi woman selling necklaces doesn't mean or signify shit. And yes you are a neocon because no true conservative would support the way we've thrown away money and resources in occupying Iraq which in my view and many others views has actually hurt our efforts to thwart terrorism.

Let's go to 'reading comprehension 101'. NO Iraqi woman was selling anything. An Iraqi woman BOUGHT a necklace.

Further, if you think I am 'Like a Conservative but not one in truth'...you may need to research what a conservative IS. I believe in lower taxes....check, less governmental involvement in my personal life....check, less spending on pork programs ..... the current regime seems to spend WAY too much (strangely enough), affirmation of my right to practice my religion and to own guns...check, strong national defense....check, secure borders...check. Please enlighten me as to where I am NOT a conservative.

[dirk digler]

Let's go to 'reading comprehension 101'. NO Iraqi woman was selling anything. An Iraqi woman BOUGHT a necklace.

Further, if you think I am 'Like a Conservative but not one in truth'...you may need to research what a conservative IS. I believe in lower taxes....check, less governmental involvement in my personal life....check, less spending on pork programs ..... the current regime seems to spend WAY too much (strangely enough), affirmation of my right to practice my religion and to own guns...check, strong national defense....check, secure borders...check. Please enlighten me as to where I am NOT a conservative.

Are you comparing yourself against the Bush administration or just Conservativism in general?

[CHIEF4EVER]

Are you comparing yourself against the Bush administration or just Conservativism in general?
Conservatism in general. Hence my perplexity at the spending policies of the current group of 'conservatives'.

[dirk digler]

Conservatism in general.

Thanks. I was going to say if you were comparing against Bush then I would have to disagree on a couple of points.

First this administration hasn't done shit to secure our borders. It still is the same problem that has been there the last 20 years.

Second IMVHO I think the government is increasing their involvements in our personal lives.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Thanks. I was going to say if you were comparing against Bush then I would have to disagree on a couple of points.

First this administration hasn't done shit to secure our borders. It still is the same problem that has been there the last 20 years.

Second IMVHO I think the government is increasing their involvements in our personal lives.

I agree. Our border security is a friggin joke. And the so called 'Patriot Act'....ugh.

[PunkinDrublic]

Let's go to 'reading comprehension 101'. NO Iraqi woman was selling anything. An Iraqi woman BOUGHT a necklace.

How does this story signify anything about Iraqi unity? It doesn't. If you support the continuous occupation of Iraq and use lame arguments like the liberal media never reports the good stuff that happens in Iraq, you're going to get labled a Neocon and rightfully so because your shilling their bullshit talking points. I'm all ears though, explain to me how Iraq is going to magically unify into a democracy and this time do better then the puff piece you used to start this thread.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Let's go to 'reading comprehension 101'. NO Iraqi woman was selling anything. An Iraqi woman BOUGHT a necklace.

How does this story signify anything about Iraqi unity? It doesn't. If you support the continuous occupation of Iraq and use lame arguments like the liberal media never reports the good stuff that happens in Iraq, you're going to get labled a Neocon and rightfully so because your shilling their bullshit talking points. I'm all ears though, explain to me how Iraq is going to magically unify into a democracy and this time do better then the puff piece you used to start this thread.

Translation: I was wrong in my initial assertion and now I am going to deflect from that truth by opening a new line of questioning.

Let me answer your question with a few of my own. Why are the reenlistment rates for servicemembers previously stationed in Iraq up by an astronomical amount? Is it because they believe in what they are doing after seeing all of it with their own eyes or because they are just being deceived by the 'Neocons'? Why are most Iraqis more interested in preserving their own country the way it is rather than seeing it divided into pieces? Is it because they are part of a huge conspiracy to deceive the West or because they truly like their country? Why do most Iraqis smile and wave at American Soldiers as they patrol? Is it because they think we suck and are occupiers or maybe do they think we keep the bad guys at bay until their own government is capable of doing so? Clue me in bro. I'm all ears.

[Adept Havelock]

Why are the reenlistment rates for servicemembers previously stationed in Iraq up by an astronomical amount?
Link?


Why are most Iraqis more interested in preserving their own country the way it is rather than seeing it divided into pieces?

Historical Tradition? Again, I'm sure some, even many, do. I'm far from sure that an overwhelming majority does. JMO.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Link?

http://www.lincolntribune.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3530

http://www.militaryconnections.com/news_story.cfm?textnewsid=1776

And my old unit in particular:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6281963544/m/8990044670001

[carlos3652]

Here is a good Article, (1 year ago) from the Boston Globe.
Also note that there was already 2000 deaths in Iraq at this point...:

The good news from Iraq is not fit to print
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | November 2, 2005

WHAT WAS the most important news out of Iraq last week?

That depends on what you consider ''important." Do you see the war against radical Islam and Ba'athist fascism as the most urgent conflict of our time? Do you believe that replacing tyranny with democratic self-government is ultimately the only antidote to the poison that has made the Middle East so dangerous and violent? If so, you'll have no trouble identifying the most significant development in Iraq last week: the landslide victory of the new Iraqi Constitution.

The announcement on Oct. 25 that the first genuinely democratic national charter in Arab history had been approved by 79 percent of Iraqis was a major piece of good news. It confirmed the courage of Iraq's people and their hunger for freedom and decent governance. It advanced the US campaign to democratize a country that for 25 years had been misruled by a mass-murdering sociopath. It underscored the decision by Iraq's Sunnis, who had boycotted the parliamentary elections in January, to pursue their goals through ballots, not bullets. And it dealt a humiliating blow to the bombers and beheaders -- to the likes of Islamist butcher Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who earlier this year declared ''a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy" and threatened to kill anyone who took part in the elections.

No question: If you think that defeating Islamofascism, extending liberty, and transforming the Middle East are important, it's safe to say you saw the ratification of the new constitution as the Iraqi news story of the week.

But that isn't how the mainstream media saw it.

Consider The Washington Post. On the morning after the results of the Iraqi referendum were announced, the Post's front page was dominated by a photograph, stretched across four columns, of three daughters at the funeral of their father, Lieutenant Colonel Leon James II, who had died from injuries suffered during a Sept. 26 bombing in Baghdad. Two accompanying stories, both above the fold, were headlined ''Military Has Lost 2,000 in Iraq" and 'Bigger, Stronger, Homemade Bombs Now to Blame for Half of US Deaths." A nearby graphic -- ''The Toll" -- divided the 2,000 deaths by type of military service -- active duty, National Guard, and Reserves.

From Page 1, the stories jumped to a two-page spread inside, where they were illustrated with more photographs, a series of drawings depicting roadside attacks, and a large US map showing where each fallen soldier was from. On a third inside page, meanwhile, another story was headlined ''2,000th Death Marked by Silence and a Vow." It began: ''Washington marked the 2,000th American fatality of the Iraq war with a moment of silence in the Senate, the reading of the names of the fallen from the House floor, new protests, and a solemn vow from President Bush not to 'rest or tire until the war on terror is won.' " Two photos appeared alongside, one of Bush and another of antiwar protester Cindy Sheehan. And to give the body count a local focus, there was yet another story (''War's Toll Leaves Baltimore in Mourning") plus four pictures of troops killed in Iraq.

The Post didn't ignore the Iraqi election results. A story appeared on Page A13 (''Sunnis Failed to Defeat Iraq Constitution"), along with a map breaking down the vote by province. But like other leading newspapers, including The New York Times, The Boston Globe, and the Los Angeles Times, it devoted vastly more attention to the 2,000-death ''milestone," a statistic with no unique significance apart from the fact that it ends in round numbers.

Every death in Iraq is heartbreaking. The 2,000th fatality was neither more nor less meaningful than the 1,999 that preceded it. But if anything makes the death toll remarkable, it is how historically low it is. Considering what the war has accomplished so far -- the destruction of the region's bloodiest dictatorship, the liberation of 25 million Iraqis, the emergence of democratic politics, the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon, the abandonment by Libya of its nuclear weapons program -- it is hard to disagree with Norman Podhoretz, who notes in the current Commentary that these achievements have been ''purchased at an astonishingly low cost in American blood when measured by the standards of every other war we have ever fought."

But that isn't a message Big Media cares to emphasize. Hostile to the war and to the administration conducting it, the nation's leading news outlets harp on the negative and pessimistic, consistently underplaying all that is going right in Iraq. Their fixation on the number of troops who have died outweighs their interest in the cause for which those fallen heroes fought -- a cause that advanced with the ratification of the new constitution.

Poll after poll confirms the public's low level of confidence in mainstream media news. Gallup recently measured that confidence at 28 percent, an all-time low. Why such mistrust? The media's slanted coverage of Iraq provides a pretty good clue.

[memyselfI]

Let's go to 'reading comprehension 101'. NO Iraqi woman was selling anything. An Iraqi woman BOUGHT a necklace.

How does this story signify anything about Iraqi unity? It doesn't. If you support the continuous occupation of Iraq and use lame arguments like the liberal media never reports the good stuff that happens in Iraq, you're going to get labled a Neocon and rightfully so because your shilling their bullshit talking points. I'm all ears though, explain to me how Iraq is going to magically unify into a democracy and this time do better then the puff piece you used to start this thread.

You missed it. They are unitifed in their belief that once the country dissipates due to civil strife their jewelry will be worth something on Ebay.

[CHIEF4EVER]

You missed it. They are unitifed in their belief that once the country dissipates due to civil strife their jewelry will be worth something on Ebay.

Pretty lame and irrelevant even for you D_enise. You can do better than that can't you?

[PunkinDrublic]

[QUOTE=CHIEF4EVER]Translation: I was wrong in my initial assertion and now I am going to deflect from that truth by opening a new line of questioning. I was wrong about the Iraqi woman selling jewlery and instead of wearing a piece of jewlery. You want to argue over insignifigant semantics, fine you win.

Let me answer your question with a few of my own. Why are the reenlistment rates for servicemembers previously stationed in Iraq up by an astronomical amount? Is it because they believe in what they are doing after seeing all of it with their own eyes or because they are just being deceived by the 'Neocons'?

Every interview with servicemembers I've read, the reason they've mostly given is that they don't want to abandon their buddies they've been serving with which is a noble thing even though the invasion and continued occupation of Iraq has been built around lies and deception. I have a better question for you. Why are military recruiters continuing to have to relax standards for enlistment and still not able to meet recruiting goals? Is it because potential recruits are so brainwashed by the pseudo liberal media. After all, if it's the rosy picture you paint in Iraq patriotic Americans should be signing up in droves.

Why are most Iraqis more interested in preserving their own country the way it is rather than seeing it divided into pieces? Is it because they are part of a huge conspiracy to deceive the West or because they truly like their country?

Most ordinary citizens of any country given the choice between a violent civil war and a unified peaceful country are going to choose the latter duh. It doesn't mean it's going to happen. You still haven't told me how the miltant factions in Iraq are just going to stop fighting

Why do most Iraqis smile and wave at American Soldiers as they patrol? Is it because they think we suck and are occupiers or maybe do they think we keep the bad guys at bay until their own government is capable of doing so? Clue me in bro. I'm all ears.

You haven't proved anything with this assertation. A lot of insurgents smile and wave at our soldiers while planning where to plant some IEDs or the next RPG attack. In other words they blend in with the ordinary population. Get back to me when you have solid evidence showing most Iraqis want us occupying their country.

There I've answered all your questions. You still have yet to explain to me evidence of a biased liberal media reporting on the occupation and you have yet to explain how the violence between the militant factions is going to end in Iraq avoiding a civil war.

[Adept Havelock]

http://www.lincolntribune.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3530

http://www.militaryconnections.com/news_story.cfm?textnewsid=1776

And my old unit in particular:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6281963544/m/8990044670001


Thanks for the links. I do have to wonder about one thing in the first paragraph of your last link. The 101'st is being noted for having the "highest" re-enlistment rate in the Army, a rate of 1 in 4.

How does a 25% success rate among deployed troops qualify as "astronomical" re-enlistments among troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? One could just as easily state 3 in 4 of the deployed troops have not re-enlisted.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd reserve the use of "astronomical" for at least a 50% success rate. Then again, this administration has been all about lowered expectations from the get-go. :p

[CHIEF4EVER]

Every interview with servicemembers I've read, the reason they've mostly given is that they don't want to abandon their buddies they've been serving with which is a noble thing

Care to share one of those alleged articles or is that one of those assertions pulled from the bunghole?

even though the invasion and continued occupation of Iraq has been built around lies and deception.

Again, more unfounded and ridiculous hyperbole. So, did SoDamn or did he not break resolution after resolution (for which the use of force was not only justified but also allowed for under the terms of the resolutions and the earlier ceasefire)? Did SoDamn have or did he not have WMDs (ohhhh, you know, liiiiiiike saaaaaaaaay the 500 cannisters of Sarin and Mustard gas that were found)?

I have a better question for you. Why are military recruiters continuing to have to relax standards for enlistment and still not able to meet recruiting goals? Is it because potential recruits are so brainwashed by the pseudo liberal media. After all, if it's the rosy picture you paint in Iraq patriotic Americans should be signing up in droves.

Please refer me to the post where I 'painted' ANY picture of the situation in Iraq, especially the rosy one you maintain I 'painted'. Initial enlistments are down but reenlistment rates are throught he roof. I wonder why that is.....:hmmm:. Maybe the boys on the ground see that what they are doing is making a difference and know the truth the liberal media refuses to report; and the young civilians here are being fed lies and deception by the media about the war, you know, the same young people who would be enlisting for the first time.

Most ordinary citizens of any country given the choice between a violent civil war and a unified peaceful country are going to choose the latter duh. It doesn't mean it's going to happen. You still haven't told me how the miltant factions in Iraq are just going to stop fighting

I would say the government will get it under control when they have sufficient strength of trained personnel to do so. Until then, it is up to us to assist them in doing so until they are fully capable.

There I've answered all your questions.

No, you haven't. try this one again. And please indicate if you think most Iraqis are insurgents or if the insurgents are a very small % of the population.

Why do most Iraqis smile and wave at American Soldiers as they patrol? Is it because they think we suck and are occupiers or maybe do they think we keep the bad guys at bay until their own government is capable of doing so? Clue me in bro. I'm all ears.




PS: Read post #26 by Carlos for the answer to your question about biased liberal media. Don't take my word for it read it for yourself.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Thanks for the links. I do have to wonder about one thing in the first paragraph of your last link. The 101'st is being noted for having the "highest" re-enlistment rate in the Army, a rate of 1 in 4.

How does a 25% success rate among deployed troops qualify as "astronomical" re-enlistments among troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? One could just as easily state 3 in 4 of the deployed troops have not re-enlisted.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd reserve the use of "astronomical" for at least a 50% success rate. Then again, this administration has been all about lowered expectations from the get-go. :p

Most people returning from a combat zone, especially "grunts", have no desire to reenlist and go through that sort of thing again (or risk being killed again). Trust me, I know. Those who do have a good reason for doing so, usually a combination of unit and comrade loyalty and desire to accomplish whatever is left undone. With that in mind even a 10% reup rate is unusually high, let alone 25%.

[Adept Havelock]

Most people returning from a combat zone, especially "grunts", have no desire to reenlist and go through that sort of thing again (or risk being killed again). Trust me, I know. Those who do have a good reason for doing so, usually a combination of unit and comrade loyalty and desire to accomplish whatever is left undone. With that in mind even a 10% reup rate is unusually high, let alone 25%.

I figured that was the case. I just couldn't resist a bit of sophistry bro. :thumb: