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Archie F. Swin
12-19-2000, 06:27 PM
It may be hard to prove, but I'm really not all torn up over the President Elect . . . I didnt type this to reinforce your dislike for the liberal side of Pants, I'm just making an observation.

Here's what I see taking place of late.

It seem the Republicans are saying "We are so very sorry that George H. W. Bush was not re-elected." and "We are so very sorry that the Clinton legacy lasted as long as it did, we really did try to cut it short."

So, as an act of cleansing Washington, they're bringing back the people that made the previous Bush Presidency great, or at least legit like J.Baker. The people (Cheney,Powell)whom we remember giving briefs on the Desert Storm efforts, have returned , almost as if the George H.W. admin was getting a second chance.

Oh, and don't forget to shine the spotlight on the token black woman and hispanic man in the new admin. Remember . . . Republicans are compasionate.

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Chief Justice Pants
(D)- Texas

KCWolfman
12-19-2000, 06:45 PM
Red Pants - While I understand your disdain, I hold some of my own for Clinton's selections....

Many had ties to his wife, not him (Robert R., Donna S, Janet R.) and the cabinet he chose was comprised of more millionaires than any other cabinet in history.

Bush may not convince people he is a genius, but I set his cabinet more akin to Reagan - where he is lacking, he simply finds the best in the field.

And please keep in mind that Bush had almost twice as many minority members as Bill Clinton's, so I take exception to your hint that 'tokens' are being assigned.

Mi_chief_fan
12-19-2000, 06:55 PM
CRP,
It kills me to say this, but Russ is dead on. Every president appoints their "good old boys" to cabinet posts. It goes with the territory.

Until a better system is devised, it really does no good to complain.

Archie F. Swin
12-19-2000, 07:00 PM
KCW

I'll assume you're saying that Daddy Bush had more minorities in his cabinet. That being said, it's just proof the Republicans mustconsider minority outreach a priority to fuel the integrity of the party. Where, with the Democrats its just kinda built in.

KCWolfman
12-19-2000, 07:05 PM
Red Pants - You have created a double edged sword with that comment, havent you? If George had less minorities than Clinton, he is assigning tokens, if he has more then he must deliberately consider that they are minorities. While the just and true democrats just naturally pick minorities. I am sorry, I am having real trouble following your logic and proof in that statement.

I believe that the selection of VP and the NSC choices, we have a clear picture of what George Bush wants. He was lacking in military and foreign expertise, so he picks two of the most well versed men on the subject, Powell and Cheney. The days of Himmary's school chums getting free jobs is over.

47mack
12-19-2000, 07:07 PM
Over 90% of blacks voted for Gore. Hmmmmmm, I wonder why???

Lets keep playing the race card. It strengthens our country!!!

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TWB

Archie F. Swin
12-19-2000, 07:08 PM
Mi-chief-fan,

I'm really not complaining . . . Bush has done nothing to set me ablaze. I like his choices so far . . . thier political views just don't jive with mine, especialy Cheney's. Once again, just making an observation.

Multi1
12-19-2000, 07:26 PM
CRP,

Your statement makes a Bush cabinet a no win situation. You allude that he is putting people in positions due to race and keeping the people happy with minorities.

I for one do not think that there is more than one race on the planet. Everyone on this rock should realize that and move forward. Just because a man/woman is black, yellow, red, or whatever color you could possibly pick does not condemn them to being inferior. The only inferior type on this earth is the ones that see color as a detriment(sp).

Kiddies, there is only one race on this earth....the human race. Once we can all accept that we can go where we haven't in the past. We are all brothers and sisters, live it and let others live it as well.

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Remember Joe Delaney?
Some of us do and are acting on our belief that he was a hero.
This is a bandwagon that all are invited to jump on!!!

37 Forever

Brock
12-19-2000, 07:33 PM
Not a Shalala or Elders in the bunch. That's a good thing.

Archie F. Swin
12-19-2000, 07:37 PM
TC,

"One Race" is a nice thought, but that's a perfect world scenario and like to discuss real world problems/solutions.

Non-Whites are very improtant in American politics in many ways. Unfortunately, some politicians are catering to minorities to prove "Hey, look everyone, not all my friends are white!"

Raiderhader
12-19-2000, 08:09 PM
CRP, Tom is right, we are one race. It is just that to many people refuse to accept that. To me Blacks are not African Americans, they are just plain Americans and fellow human beings. As with all other "minorities".

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Luzap
12-19-2000, 08:29 PM
CRP,

This is not directed personally at you, but rather your ideology...

I have a theory. I believe that American liberalism is more racist than conservatism, libertarianism, communism, or especially the traditional element of the Democratic party ~ and I think your comments give evidence to it.

Bush is doing nothing that is not consistant with what he has always done. He is appointing the best people to the job, period. You didn't hear anyone complaining that Bill Clinton's staff was either too diversified or not ~ it simply wasn't an issue with anyone.

The only people that ever even notice, let alone make a big deal out of it, are liberals.

I won't even go into the many examples of how liberal policies prey on the poor and undereducated ~ my point above will be a good starting place for unraveling the myths of American liberalism.

Luz
you are invited to begin a self-educational journey ~ if you can dare to see the truth...

Raiderhader
12-19-2000, 08:33 PM
Luz, well stated. I don't understand how minorities don't realize that the libs in this country are just using them. You might even make the case that the libs have reinstituted slavery in a manner of speaking. The minorities are just there to serve the Democrat Party. How shameful. :(

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Luzap
12-19-2000, 08:43 PM
Thank you raiderhader,

It may seem obvious to us, but there have been many times in my life when a combination of events have 'lifted a veil' from my perspective to give me a completely different, and more accurate, paradigm.

Luz
just hoping to do a little veil lifting...<BR>

Raiderhader
12-19-2000, 08:46 PM
Count me in on the veil lifting mission.

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bkkcoh
12-20-2000, 05:26 AM
CRP,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>
Non-Whites are very improtant in American politics in many ways. Unfortunately, some politicians are catering to minorities to prove "Hey, look everyone, not all my friends are white!"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which party has tried to cater to the non-whites more?? The democrats! I really don't think over the last 20 years the blacks have gained anything as a direct result of the democrats actions. Remember, it was the democratic congressmen in the south that had to be convinced civil rights were a good thing. I wonder when the non-whites are going to get off of the democrat band-wagon and help themselves.



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Brian K.

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair.
[i]George Burns </I>

Multi1
12-20-2000, 06:14 AM
For those who say that it is just a political thing that is said during times like this, I mostly agree. We need the masses to believe that there is only one race. Until the "jerks" of the world realize that what they are doing is counter productive, we have to live with them.

It was a correct statement that there are no African-Americans. People that are FROM Africa and relocate to America could be called AF, but no one after their generation. They simply become Americans, as we all are.

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Remember Joe Delaney?
Some of us do and are acting on our belief that he was a hero.
This is a bandwagon that all are invited to jump on!!!

37 Forever

bkkcoh
12-20-2000, 06:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>
It was a correct statement that there are no African-Americans. People that are FROM Africa and relocate to America could be called AF, but no one after their generation. They simply become Americans, as we all are.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you are totally correct Tom, to be called AFrican-Americans, Italian-Americans or whatever seems to be devisive. They are trying to separate themselves from society.



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Brian K.

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair.
[i]George Burns </I>

Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 08:07 AM
It has been disheartening to me for a number of years that so many minority groups pledge their fealty to the Democratic party, opting for a cash-for-votes exchange over a level playing field and expanded opportunity.
Further disheartening is the explanations and rationalizations by minority leadership for this arrangement. Bill O'Reilly asked a black leader point-blank 'why 90% for Gore?' The leader replied 'blacks are overwhelmingly opposed to the death penalty.' Excuse me?? They're opposed to the death penalty and vote 90% for a candidate who "strongly support[s] the death penalty???" - That IS Al Gore's position.
Then there's Jesse. Trying obsessively to make a case for coordinated, heavy-handed disfranchisement of blacks in FL. First, the facts don't back up the claims. Second, with democratic control of local/municipal government, I defy anyone to demonstrate how the [you know who's, I won't say who but they aren't democrats] gained a foothold to orchestrate a disfranchisement campaign. Is Jesse saying Republicans run the Florida Highway Patrol?
However, the tide may be turning, from within. Terry McAuliffe looks to be the next chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Black Democrats were pushing for Atlanta Mayor Maynard Jackson, but were never contacted that decision was going down before the cogs were in place. McAuliffe was/is the party's most prolific fund-raiser, showing clearly that green is again the color that wins the day. Jesse's support of McAuliffe is opening the eyes of other black leaders as to his favorite color in the rainbow as well.


[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 12-20-2000).]

Chief Henry
12-20-2000, 08:29 AM
INCREDIBLE article in todays wall st journal.
Page A22 on the increasing cost of education
and the reading skills of elementary students. Its title is "More Money".....

I actually have the article so I can't give you a web site.

<BR>

Chief Henry
12-20-2000, 08:39 AM
I'm not blasting teachers here by any means.
I just thought you would want to read that article.

My best friend is in education. I have many clients that are teachers and coach's.

I like the idea pay based, HOWEVER, HOW can the teacher be held responsible for KIDS that don't give a RATS *** , because the
PARENTS don't give a RATS *** ?????

My income is based on my performance.
So I can choose NOT TO work with people who don't give a RATS *** , but school teachers
don't have that choice. They have to work with good kids and idiots. I'm glad I don't have to work with IDIOTS.......

AN observation. We are paying for those IDIOTS to stay IDIOTS........Doesn't make
any CENT$ to me.




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Chiefs Rock

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 08:43 AM
Luz
you are invited to begin a self-educational journey ~ if you can dare to see the truth...


This might be the funniest thing I'll read on this BB for a loooong time!

Luzap, I seriously doubt that you've ever been anything other than a conservative-to-the-bone Republican, which means that you have no business commenting about others being racist at all.

Why do you think all the hicks...errr...rural Americans voted for Bush? They didn't think they could continue living like trailer trash under Gore? Jesus, they could live like that in Bangladesh. They voted for Bush cause he'll strap them thar colored boys down and put 'em to sleep if they git out uh line. Not to mention the fact that those tards can more readily identify with Bush.

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 12-20-2000).]

Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 09:20 AM
Ah Clint - aren't stereotypes comforting? Isn't life easier when all conservatives are racists and all midwesterners are inbred hicks who wanna kill 'colored boys?'

When the sweep of history passes ME by, it makes me feel better to be sure that the rest of america is just plain WRONG, don't you agree?

Why if every individual is just that, an individual, with an intellect and experience and history; well my world just got a little harder to deal with, Eh?

Thanxomuch for showing YOUR true colors.

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 09:33 AM
Wow, not sure who to give my vote for Dickhead of the week award to, Clint or CRP.

I am hoping this thread and their posts were just for shock value.<BR>

Idaho Chief
12-20-2000, 09:43 AM
Clint,
Regarding your comment about Luz. Now that is the biggest load of BS I've heard in a very long time. Talk about biased! You libs kill me.

I'm a dyed in the wool conservative, a Christian and live in Idaho.

I guess to you that means 3 things:
I'm a hick, a nazi, and a racist, but it really only proves one thing. Your a complete FOOL. (note: a fool is an idiot by choice).

Your bias is so dark, you can no longer see the ground beneath your feet nor do care too. Sad, simply sad...

Lightning Rod
12-20-2000, 09:54 AM
Well I've got a Meeting to go to. When I return I expect some arrogant right wing holier than thou drivel followed with a large dose of the White man is the root of all Evil dogma from the Left. Go to your corners and come out spouting.

Brock
12-20-2000, 10:03 AM
mlyons - CRP said nothing to warrant your classless personal attack. You just won your own award.

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 10:13 AM
When Conservatives stop posting idiotic, condescending things on this BB, I'll stop stereotyping them.

Until then, I'll just assume that you people that are crying your eyes out about my response are the very hicks I was referring to.

If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 10:50 AM
Brock, almost everything CRP has posted on this thread has been destructive and racist in nature. Sorry you don't see it that way, people who let other people get away with these kinds of remarks are just part of the real problem.

I don't care if CRP thinks Bush is an idiot, he is entitled to his opinion. But when he starts throwing around the race card I'm going to call him on it.

Chief Henry
12-20-2000, 10:54 AM
Clint,

Grow up and act your age.

cbg5
12-20-2000, 11:09 AM
This is awesome!
The typical format for one of these discussions. A point is raised, that point is countered, a personal attack is made and the original issue of a double standard will never be brought up again. Way to go!

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:11 AM
Henry, I think Clint is acting his age.

Clint, "When Conservatives stop posting idiotic, condescending things on this BB, I'll stop stereotyping them." If I remember correctly you are the one who in post #21 used the terms, "hicks", "trailer trash", and "tards". You are the one being condescending.

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Mark M
12-20-2000, 11:12 AM
CRP--
While I usually agree with your liberal slant, I will have to disagree with you on this one.

At first, I thought the same thing as you didóBush is hiring minorities to appease the masses. The problem? He has appointed the people who are the best for the job(s), not because of their skin tone. And just because they worked for Bush Sr. doesn't mean that's the only reason they were hired. Again, they are the best people for the job.

I see the reason for such weak Republican support from minorities as a form of racism (or politicism, if you will). Repubs have been branded (for right or wrong) as being elitist, religously zealous racists. For some reason we have this notion that all Republicans, if they had their way, would round up all of the Af. Americans and put them back in the cotton fields. And we know that won't happen.

Now, I still think Bush is a moron (as evidenced by my new "signature"). But he seems to be putting people around him that are strong minded, highly respected and extremely qualified. It's kinda like Gunther: The guy seems clueless, but would probably be okay if he had others to help support him and take some heat off of his back. While I didn't vote for Bush, I am willing to see what happens.

MM
~~Still not a Republican...but beginning to see some light through the veil.<P>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:19 AM
Clint, I also am offended at the notion that I as a Christian Conservative am racist. I want the best for mankind, regardless of skin color. I belive that Americans, regardless of skin color, have the potential to do what ever they set thier minds to doing. I just happen to belive that they can do it with out government help. You libs on the other hand are the ones that think that minorities are to stupid or handicapped to do it by themselves. THAT is raciist. Just because they have a differnt color skin means that they need big brothers help. I ask you, who are the racist in this country? It is you libs. And you have the audacity to blame us!

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:22 AM
Almost every racist I have ever met has voted on the conservative ticket.

Take an anonimous poll among the KKK and 99% voted for Bush, I guarantee it.

The south, where racism is much more prevelent, was won by Bush across the board.

David Duke [ex-National Director of the KKK] is a elected official for the Republican Party in Louisianna.

In general, the Republican Party attracts racists and many people in the party [not all] are racist.

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

bkkcoh
12-20-2000, 11:23 AM
With conservatives being so racist ;), that is the only reason to appoint them to a position is they are the most qualified for the position. They sure wouldn't put someone in their who wasn't qualified, just because. Would they?



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Brian K.

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair.
[i]George Burns </I>

morphius
12-20-2000, 11:27 AM
CLint - Thank you for showing that many liberals have the inability not to catorgorize people, instead of looking at everyone as human a person must either be a red neck hick, a brutha... You are more proof of the point then a counter point, and your inability to step in it time after time shows that it isn't a fluke response, but a true gut feeling.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>You libs on the other hand are the ones that think that minorities are to stupid or handicapped to do it by themselves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually you're completely wrong here.

We know that minorities need assistance in obtaining work because many white business owner will not hire minorities based soley on the color of their skin. It is not because they are stupid.

morphius
12-20-2000, 11:30 AM
Cannibal - I know many Democrats that are northern racists as well.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:31 AM
There truly aren't that many Morphius.

The "liberal" political ideals don't agree with a genuine racists political ideals.

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 11:34 AM
Believe it or not, I'm not a liberal. ANYONE that acts holier-than-thou and aims to "educate the ignorant masses" disgusts me.

Basically, my point is this: Conservatism is not Bodywise. Stop trying to sell it.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Conservatism is not Bodywise. Stop trying to sell it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too funny! LOL!!!!!

Mark M
12-20-2000, 11:38 AM
cannibal--
While I believe you are probably correct that many KKK members vote Republican, I think you have the wrong idea of why.

Republicans are for less government, something the Klan supports. (Of course, the Klan hates Jews yet says it loves Jesus...even though Jesus was a Jew himself. I find that pretty funny. Sad, but funny.) So, IMHO, any party that favors less gov't will get their vote.

I bet many votes for the Libertarian candidate Brown were from Klan memebers, Neo-Nazis, et al. It's just what they support.

There are racists everywhere, folks. North, south, east and west. It's not just white vs. black, Christian vs. Non-Christian, rural vs. urban...its stupidity vs. understanding.

I hope we're all rooting for the understanding.

MM
~~Not a republican...just trying to add to the discussion.

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One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-20-2000).]

morphius
12-20-2000, 11:40 AM
Cannibal - I don't think that racists are a large enough part of the population to achieve much of anything. It is that there is one group that feels that everyone must be split into particular race groups, and it is not the conservitives.

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 11:41 AM
Token minorities??? As a minority, I'm a little miffed at that statement. I've read these people's resumes and they are very impressive. I agree that the Democrats use minorities. Minorities complain about the same things for many years and every election it's the same old issues the Democrats bring up but never do anything about. The conservative side will never "promise" anything to minorities to get their vote. I agree with that and personal responsibility for everyone. Access to education for everyone is the key.

Dan<BR>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:41 AM
Cannibal, Do you think that forcing a business owner to hire someone he doesn't like is going to like them any more? No, he will hate them even more. But that is besides the point. Dems do look at all people as stupid. Look at thier policies. Taxation, youpeople are to stupid to know what to do with your own money, so we will take it and put it to better use. Welfare, you people aren't capable of going out and finding work on your own, so we will use the afore mentioned tax money to help you through life. I could go on, and on, and on, and.... Also look at how you treat your followers. In Fl. for example you would parade people out in front of the nation so they could tell us how stupid they are. It was so confussing, I didn't know how to follow an arrow. Please! Libs think of all people as Stupid, while they are the all knowing high and mighty that knows what is best for us. You people are only holding the blacks down. Out of all the years of many, many promises to the blacks, wich ones have you fulfilled. According to this last election the same problems that have been plauging this nation for years, are still a problem today.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:42 AM
The Klan and other racists are against laws that help even the playing field for minorities. And so are Republicans.<P>

Bricky
12-20-2000, 11:47 AM
Cannibal RE: post 46, do you really believe that about Republicans? Do you have some evidence for us?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:47 AM
"The Klan and other racists are against laws that help even the playing field for minorities. And so are Republicans"

What are you smoking? Republicans are all for minorities succeeding in life. We just don't think that Big Brother is the best way for going about it. Do you think that we want them to do poorly? That is you guys you want that, so as to have a campaing issue to run on!

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:48 AM
Without affirmative action the minorities do not have a fair shot and obtaining work.

The majority of all business owners are white, that is fact. Most people, racist or not, are going to hire a person that is of the same color, this is also fact.

So we need that law to give minorities a fair shot. If we don't have it, many minorities go without work and forced to live off the government. Which you also hate. Their damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Brock
12-20-2000, 11:49 AM
"I don't care if CRP thinks Bush is an idiot, he is entitled to his opinion. But when he starts throwing around the race card I'm going to call him on it."

By calling him "Dickhead of the Week"? Way to stay on topic, dude. I'm in awe of your debate skills.

Bricky
12-20-2000, 11:50 AM
Hiring some one based on their skin color is OK, as long as the person hired is black?<P>

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 11:52 AM
Cannibal,

Affirmitive action is wrong. Access to education for everyone is the key.

Dan<BR>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:52 AM
You see, you live in a world were all white men are bad people. well sir I simply say screw you. I refuse to be put in that catagory. I also refuse to belive that all white men are going to hire thier own color instead of who is best suited for the job. I know that it does happen, but I think it is not as common place as you make it out to be. This goes back to what I was saying, you libs don't trust people or have any faith in them. You people must live very paranoid lives. I pitty you.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:55 AM
raider,

It happens all over the country even today, even with the affirmative action law.

Open up your eyes...

Ugly Duck
12-20-2000, 11:55 AM
I have noticed that there are two major definitions of "racism" that are in popular usage. Sometimes one party uses one def, the second party is talking about the other def, and neither one can understand how his opponent can be so wrong. Here's what I have picked up from listening to Americans discuss the issue:

Racism 1: Discrimination against someone based on their race. As in not hiring someone because of their race. Not promoting someone because of their race. Cops pulling someone over because of their skin color. Dragging someone from a truck till their limbs fall off.

Racism 2: Differentiation on the basis of race. Stuff like affirmative action. The idea that civil leaders should look like the populace they represent. The assumption that an individual will support a certain political party because of the color of their skin. The idea that someone needs preferential assistance because of their race.

Confusion reigns when one party uses Def #1 and the other uses Def #2. The word "racism" has come to mean so many different things to so many people that I have to look closely to figure out what they are talking about. Eskimos have 17 words to describe snow. Maybe we need new descriptives when we discuss racism.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:56 AM
Further more Affirmative action is by nature racists. Lets say that the best person for the job happens to be white, but now a black has to be hired. That is racisim against whites. I have noticed something with you libs, it is not ok to be racists against minorities, but it is ok to be racists towards whites. That is a double standard. You people make me sick.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 11:58 AM
It's not perfect, but it's a neccessary evil.

A white person has a better chance to land a job even with affirmative action.

MrBlond
12-20-2000, 11:59 AM
Cannibal,

What % of "Nation of Islam" voters voted Democrat? Extremist of every flavor infect both parties. Farrakahn doesnt speak for democrates any more than Duke speaks for Republicans. Making honest Republicans answer for the KKK is unfair and smacks of scare-tactics.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 11:59 AM
Cannibal, you are the one who needs to open up your eyes. People aren't as stupid as you libs think they are.


How did anyone in this country get along before liberalism showed up to help us? :rolleyes:

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Mosbonian
12-20-2000, 12:00 PM
Cannibal:

Re: Post #34

"The south, where racism is much more prevelent, was won by Bush across the board."

Damn nice of you to label something prevalent from the 70's & 80's into the New South.

You are right, it still exists in the South, but no more than you will find anywhere else. I knew just as many bigots in the state of Missouri as I do living here in South Carolina.

Try living here NOW and knowing the people better before you want to make generalizations.

mark
*****************<P>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 12:02 PM
You see, you just proved my point that it is ok to be racists, as long as it is pointed towrds whites. If you truly hated racisim, you would hate all forms of it.

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morphius
12-20-2000, 12:03 PM
Cannibal - From your comments, does it hold true that only Whites are Racists? Can you also explain why Orientals, Jews and Mexicans, for example, don't have a problem and have never really needed the special laws even though they are minorities. If you don't think these "even playing field" laws don't create more hate then they reduce, you are probably more mistaken then most of your statements.

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 12:05 PM
You conservatives don't like it when someone calls you a racist, ignorant, inbred hick?

Now you know how I feel when someone attempts to educate me because they're "superior" to anyone that doesn't feel that God, guns, & guts are the keys to existence.

Bob Dole
12-20-2000, 12:07 PM
Premise 1: KKK members are racist
Premise 2: KKK members vote Republican
Conclusion: Republicans are racist

Nice logic...

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 12:07 PM
Clint, all I was saying was that you were doing exactly what you accused someone else of doing.

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The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 12:11 PM
Raiderhater,

RE# 61

It all comes down to political correctness. Where the white male is seen as a second class citizen. These PC liberal ideas would benefit me greatly as a minority but I realize that they are wrong and promote hate and division. Just like all of liberalism, on the surface it looks to do good but underneath it does more harm than good.

Dan

Doesn't think liberals know what is best for minorities.<BR>

MrBlond
12-20-2000, 12:13 PM
Clint,

What is the correct Republican stereotype...the "Redneck, in-bred hick" or the "Wealthiest 2%"? It seems that everyone who disagrees with the Democratic party line or was racist or greedy enough to vote for Bush must fit into one or the other catagory.

[This message has been edited by MrBlond (edited 12-20-2000).]

morphius
12-20-2000, 12:14 PM
Dole - This makes as much sense

Premise 1: Attorneys are Evil
Premise 2: Attorneys Union pushed for Democrats
Conclusion: All people that push for the Democrats are evil.

[This message has been edited by morphius (edited 12-20-2000).]

morphius
12-20-2000, 12:15 PM
MrBlond - Classic.

Mark M
12-20-2000, 12:16 PM
UD--
That was a damn fine post!! You have summed up the argument well: Racism is everywhere, whether its as open and upfront as the Klan or as hidden as affirmative action.

I still want your team to choke in the playoffs, though! :p

MM
~~Sees both sides as having racist elements.



------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 12:25 PM
Attornies don't unionize. With the exception of what the prosecutor's office in KC is trying to do, it is fairly universally recognized as a breach of ethics. Now if your talking about ATLA or the Bar Assoc., that is a different matter. In the case of the bar Assoc., most or all attys [depending on the law in the state] are members and are restricting in their advocacy [much like religious institutions. Groups like ATLA or MODL are comprised of segments of the legal field [plaintiffs trial attys, Corporate counsel, insurance defense, etc.] and as such are much like the Sierra Club or PETA, with platforms, positions and lobbying wings. But membership to these groups is voluntary.

Ugly Duck
12-20-2000, 12:26 PM
Thank you, Mark. Sometimes a culture overuses a word until it becomes useless. Language must evolve to express complex issues as they evolve. I think the word "racism" has come to that point in our culture.

Hey, can I try one of those Socrates logic models?

Premise 1: 90% of black voters went Dem.
Premise 2: Dems philosophy is racist (racism 2).
Conclusion: 90% of black voters are racist or are so stupid they have been duped.

Mosbonian
12-20-2000, 12:27 PM
Cannibal:

Re: Post #49

"Most people, racist or not, are going to hire a person that is of the same color, this is also fact."

B-S......As a management person I hire based upon the capabilities of the person. You may choose to believe that all people are racist in hiring practices, but I do not.

mark
********* <BR>

Bob Dole
12-20-2000, 12:36 PM
Bob Dole usually tries to avoid any race-related discussions, but feels obliged to point out something.

Numerous studies have suggested that job descrimination based on skin color is perhaps exaggerated. Thusly, affirmative action programs simply reinforce the feelings of disadvantage held by many impacted by AA, and AA simply perpetuates the problem.

Most of these studies use wage-based statistical comparisons of African immigrants, Carribean immigrants and U.S.-born blacks. Typical results show that both immigrant groups achieve greater success, on average, than the U.S.-born sample, overcoming both race and immigrant status.

An interesting read is <u>Assimilation Differences among Africans in America</u> by F. Nii-Amoo Dodoo of Vanderbilt University.

Lightning Rod
12-20-2000, 12:37 PM
Thank you Gentlemen, I knew I could count on you.

Could it be that the Conservatives and Liberals both actually want the same things? Equality, fairness, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? How could this be when they believe a different path will lead us there? Obviously anyone who does not think the way we do is at best misinformed but more likely a communist or a fascist. Both parties have fringe elements that are truly an embarrassment to our society. I am about 2/3 conservative but that in no way quiets my displeasure for the 1/3 I disagree with. I also have no problem in belittling many of the liberal stances that I believe are unsound. Racism and bigotry are alive and well in America and it takes many forms. I find a Black man disliking a white man no less offensive than the reverse simply based on skin color. I really see no reason to hate groups of people when they give you so many reasons to do it on an individual basis. I realize this is not particularly realistic but could we possibly try to discuss issues while keeping the name-calling and blatant rhetoric to a minimum?<BR>

Iowanian
12-20-2000, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>"Come the millennium, month 12
In the home of greatest power
The village idiot will come forth
To be acclaimed the leader."Nostradamis 1555<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just think, 600 more votes for Algore and it could have come true :D<BR>

Mosbonian
12-20-2000, 12:39 PM
Clint:

"You conservatives don't like it when someone calls you a racist, ignorant, inbred hick?"

No more than when you get your panties all in a wad when we accuse you of lacking a brain or the intelligence to think before posting.

mark
*************

Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 12:39 PM
UD - I don't think it is stupidity. I do think the loyalty is based in tradition and fear and as such is misguided.

I would posit the corrollary to your syllogism as follows.

1: xx% of battered spouses go back to the batterer.
2: receiving battery from your spouse is wrong.
C: battered spouses who return are wrong, or stupid.

Of course they're not stupid, but their experience has taught them to fear the unknown more than the batterer.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the democratic urge [in a pure form] to help the less fortunate should be an urge we all share. But when differing minds develop different ways to help say, welfare state versus enterprise zones, affirmative action versus education reform], strident rhetoric is counterproductive to the goal and those espousing strident rhetoric have now, unwittingly or not, become the ROADBLOCKS to success.

[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 12-20-2000).]

Mark M
12-20-2000, 12:39 PM
I was going to start a new thread for this, but I thought all of you liberals and conservatives would like this. As an independent, I found it hilarious.

The Speech Al Gore would've LIKED to make.

My Fellow Americans,

You suck. How could you elect some sauced-up Texas cow-puncher to the highest office in the land over me? I'm more experienced than Bush, I'm a better statesman, I've done more for this country. Hell, I'm even better looking than that pasty-faced mamma's boy. Not to mention the most important advantage: I'm not from Texas. They say only queers and steers come rom Texas. How is it going to look to visiting dignitaries when they see a pair of longhorns on the hood of the presidential limousine?

The man is a lush, folks. Do you really want some boozer throwing keggers at the White House and cruising around D.C. half in the bag and running into lightpoles? Well, that's what you're going to get. And I'll tell you something else. Bush has got a small d!ck. It's true. Laura told me. That's right, Dubya, I banged her. I banged her like a screen door. What do you think about that?

I deserve this presidency, damn it. I earned it. I didn't spend eight years kissing Bill Clinton's doughy, white a$$ and tucking China men into the Lincoln bedroom just so I could go back to divinity school. Where's my reward? Where are MY blowjobs? Do you know I haven't had oral sex since 1993? It's no Mardi Gras curling up next to the Prozac Princess every night and interns don't do favors for the V.P. Those are the kind of sacrifices I've made for this country. And what do I get in return? "Thanks a lot, Al. You can go back to Tennessee now." Well, no thank you M'am.

A Democratic administration wasn't so bad. Look at everything we've accomplished: we had a few laughs, we had a war, we balanced the budget, we almost had an impeachment, in my book that's good politics. Do you really want to go back to a Republican White House? Well, you can read my lips, you morons are all f*cking insane. Nobody in their right mind would elect Bush.

So I want a re-vote, damn it. I want those booths set up again, and I want a new ballot designed. One with a hole right next to my damned name. And this time everybody can get it right.

Thank you. (if I win this time)

MM
~~Looking more and more like a Republican...help! :eek:


------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-20-2000).]

Mark M
12-20-2000, 12:43 PM
Al's speech has nothing to do with racism...just thought I'd lighten up the discussion.

MM
~~Trying to join, not divide.

------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 12:43 PM
Kilgore,


Look at what Luzap posted earlier (the reply I originally responded to), and tell me that obnoxious, self-righteous garbage doesn't deserve to be ridiculed.

If you want to lump yourself in with that crap, go right ahead, Mr. Intelligence.

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 12:57 PM
Brock, anytime you want to rationally debate anything let me know.

[This message has been edited by mlyonsd (edited 12-20-2000).]

Brock
12-20-2000, 12:59 PM
Do we need to debate whether or not "dickhead" is a personal attack?

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 01:00 PM
Sure. I'd characterize it as a personal attack.

Iowanian
12-20-2000, 01:01 PM
Cannibal, clint et al.

I honestly would like to know if any of the following comments/situations involve racism.

1.Michael Jordan as CEO(or whatever) of Washington Wizards ONLY hires black coaches, assistant coaches and administrators for that team...though others may be more qualified...Hispanics and Asians were considered minorities last time I looked.

2. I had a friend at college, born in south africa..at age 22 came to US went to college and started a business...While in college, he applied for scholarships for "African Americans"...although he WAS a legit "AFRICAN AMERICAN" he was denied these scholarships, and even made it to a personal interview(qualified) except that he was white.

3. LA Riots...Many blacks burned and looted Korean businesses...and told them to "GO Back Where You Came From" as I rememeber from an interview....any racism here?

Lightning Rod
12-20-2000, 01:09 PM
Oh well never mind

Ugly Duck
12-20-2000, 01:25 PM
Iowa - I hear you on the "African American" thing. I also have a blue-eyed pal that was insulted to find that he cannot claim to be African American even though he is an American citizen that was born in Africa. I think the problem is that Africa is a continent, but "African American" is a racial description. But why don't we use a race descriptor to describe race? Is it degrading to use any name that describes someone as genetically negroid? Caucasoid, Mongoloid, negroid - those are the three races. Its OK to say Caucasion, but its taboo to say negro. I don't get it. Its almost like there is shame to being of a certain race, so we avoid saying the name of the race. I would be insulted to have folks avoid saying the name of my race like there is something wrong with it. Am I making any sense here?

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 01:36 PM
Iowa,

Yes, those incidents all smack of racism, but I've never said racism isn't a two-way street...but when those with real power (whites, for the most part) are racist, the problem is magnified greatly.

Is there anyone here that REALLY thinks Rural Americans, generally speaking, are no more racist than their city-dwelling counterparts? Get real!

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 01:43 PM
Clint, I'm one of those rural people you are speaking of.

I guess to answer that question I would need you to define in your opinion what a racist is.

Brock
12-20-2000, 01:48 PM
African Americans are good enough to comprise 90 percent of the population of NFL players, but not good enough to be coaches. Proven losers like Bruce Coslet and Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick get repeat shots, while proven winners like Art Shell don't. The NFL may be the most racist organization in the world.

Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 01:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Is there anyone here that REALLY thinks Rural Americans, generally speaking, are no more racist than their city-dwelling counterparts? Get real! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last I heard, all those cabs that refuse to pick-up black men weren't roaming the highways and by-ways of the yahoo nation. Word is, they weren't driven by rich white males either.

More to the point, you could apply your query structure to just about any 'traditional' justiciation for racism.

Anyone argue, generally speaking, that xxxx commit more crimes?
Anyone argue, generally speaking, that xxxx are less educated?
Anyone argue, generally speaking, that xxxx do more drugs?

Blah, blah, blah.

And that, Clint, is exactly what many of us are trying to say. Stereotyping is stereotyping. Were it not apparently heartfelt, it would be comical that you blast ignorance and bias in an ignorant and biased manner.

[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 12-20-2000).]

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 01:52 PM
Brock, I can't argue those stats but let me ask you a question.

Do you really think guys like Al Davis and Lamar would choose a HC with skin color being one of the factors?

I don't. If they really thought they could get to the SB with a little green man from Mars as HC they'd do it.

MrBlond
12-20-2000, 01:53 PM
Clint,

Then "generally speaking", African American males commit crimes. Reggie White was just "generally speaking" to the Wisconsin Legislature. White business execs who think minorities don't work as hard or are as smart are right, "generally speaking", according to college entrance exam, and unemployment data. "generally speaking" is another word for stereotyping.

ROYC75
12-20-2000, 01:53 PM
Mark M # 79

ROTHFLMAO........Al's speech is a classic! http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 01:54 PM
Clint,

Speaking from this hispanics point of view, I have never had any trouble getting a job (or promotions) that I went after and was qualified for. I have never experienced racism on that level. I have been on many boards where liberals claim racism so they can implement their programs. From my personal experience, I have never experienced racism in that way. I'm just curious who these minorities are that they talk about.

Dan<BR>

Brock
12-20-2000, 02:02 PM
mlyonsd - True of Al Davis. He was the first to hire a black head coach. Don't ask me what motivates Lamar to hire and fire coaches, that is a separate conundrum. However, Cleveland hires Chris Palmer, Houston is likely to hire Gary Kubiak, Cincinnati, Arizona, Detroit, etc.,....No AA's even considered. What does that tell you? Actions speak louder than words.

Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 02:07 PM
Just to re-post my own political correctness

Topic - Who should be the next Chiefs head coach?

JC-Johnny
posted 11-20-2000 01:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My dream lineup would be Denny Green as manager and coach [two titles, to lure him from a very sucessful franchise]. Keep JRaye [gasp]. DC, Ray Rhodes. The Green/Raye/Rhodes tandem would send a strong message to the athletes that the Chiefs are a progressive organization that recognizes ability w/o regards to color.

JC-Johnny - still liking this lineup

Bob Dole
12-20-2000, 02:08 PM
Bob Dole just can't believe Jimmy Raye has not been offered a head coach position somewhere already.

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 02:09 PM
Brock, without knowing for sure what all the circumstances are I know I can't draw the conclusion that the owners in those cities are racists.

Brock
12-20-2000, 02:09 PM
JC - that is a great lineup.

mlyonsd
12-20-2000, 02:10 PM
mlyonsd thinks Bob Dole is a dufus.

Brock
12-20-2000, 02:22 PM
Actually, JC, just have Green bring Sherm Lewis with him.

Archie F. Swin
12-20-2000, 02:26 PM
Dear Friends,

In retrospect, I should have used discretion and left off the final sentence of this thread so that you could focus an the main body of the post. The term "token" is one used playfully between myself and my wife, and I may have forgotten that it shows little tact on our part.

My appologies

I read most of the posts carefully and its obvious all of you took my observation quite seriously, which was, in fact,the reason I posted it with confidence of a guarunteed response.

Many good arguments. It's clear that 'racism', however it may be defined, is a very sensitive subject among Republicans 'cause they don't want to be associated with it, and I can understand that.

As far as "playing the race card", I'm not quite sure what that means . . . if it means: making the statement that color of skin carries considerable weight in American politics . . .I'm guilty.

------------------
Chief Justice Pants
(D)- Texas

Bob Dole
12-20-2000, 02:34 PM
Bob Dole just can't believe Jimmy Raye has not been offered a head coach position somewhere already.

morphius
12-20-2000, 02:39 PM
UD - I think the African American name is kind of a bad choice, but I think they wanted to get away from Negro because it is the base for the insult N word. Either that or it was chosen to show support for where they came from and use it as a tool to fight racism, but I can't be sure.

Clint in Wichita
12-20-2000, 03:31 PM
You know what? You guys are right! There is hardly any racism in this country at all, and most of the racism that does exist comes from liberals and/or minorities.

And my feces smells like fresh baked bread...anybody want a loaf?

Mult9
12-20-2000, 03:34 PM
If you want Affirmative Action in the NFL, most of the players would have to be fired, laid off or released from their contracts. The percentage of minorities coaching isn't a color thing, it's a qualification thing. If the owner doesn't think the "black" guy is qualified, he isn't hired.

If I interview a "black" guy for a job in my company I completely rely on experience and attitude. If I interview a "white" guy for a job in my company I completely rely on experience and attitude.

If I interview a jack *** for uppermanagement, he usually gets the job. Most of them turn out that way anyway, regardless of "race".

Good Night Irene!

Chief Henry
12-20-2000, 04:39 PM
Clint,

In your opinion, who are the TOP 10
living Black people in America that inner city young black kids should look up too? Who should they respect and use as a role model to become successful?

Not counting parents or other family members.

------------------
Chiefs Rock

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 06:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>2. I had a friend at college, born in south africa..at age 22 came to US went to college and started a business...While in college, he applied for scholarships for "African Americans"...although he WAS a legit "AFRICAN AMERICAN" he was denied these scholarships, and even made it to a personal interview(qualified) except that he was white.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one of the dumbest thing I've ever read!

Your friend is not a minority. He is white. White people are the majority in case you haven't noticed. The minority in this country have been sh1t on for 200+ hundred years. Now the blacks have a scholarship, just for blacks and people cry their eyes out. I'm amazed.

When you are in a minority you need things like these scholarships and affirmative action to have equal opportunity. Racism is prevalent in this country even today. You all must live some very small towns. Otherwise you might know this.


[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 06:33 PM
Let's see...

What's worse, being castrated and being forced into to slave labor, being raped, being whipped and tortured...

Or being denied an African American scholorship because your white...

gee, I don't know?!

[b]sarcasm intended obviously</B>

morphius
12-20-2000, 06:36 PM
Cannibal - That goes back to questions already asked, and ignored by you. Blacks not from this country succeed without problems, as one study showed. Another fact is why is it that the Koreans, Vietnamese, other orientals, and many in the hispanic communities are able to get by with no problems and without assistance even though they are minorities?

morphius
12-20-2000, 06:39 PM
Cannibal - Yeah, I guess that happens all the time now doesn't it? Any other payments we should make, maybe we just pay the arabs for once trying to take back the holy land?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 06:40 PM
It's not just black people that require assistance. [That is a stereotype] Many minorities do and so do many whites.

If affirmative action and other special privileges are all that these minorities receive as retribution for the way they were treated, I think we're getting off light.


[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

morphius
12-20-2000, 06:40 PM
Cannibal - Lets go attack the Zulu tribe and destroy them for seeling their own race into slavery. Well that help make up for some of it?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 06:42 PM
Morphius,

Is there racism in this country directed at minorities?

morphius
12-20-2000, 06:48 PM
Cannibal - There is racisim from all sides, whats your point? Here is my question, does giving groups special privilidges help to promote unity and equality or does it continue to reinforce stereotypes?

The fact of the matter is that at some points any person may need help from society, but to base it on the color of ones skin is not the best way to do it.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 06:49 PM
Morph, #105, How about just calling them Americans?

------------------
liberalism is racists, and bigoted

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

morphius
12-20-2000, 06:53 PM
RH - Completely agree with that, they have the write to vote, they have the ability to pursue happiness and have the rights to go anywhere that I can. In my book they are Americans.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 06:55 PM
This country is 72% white, 12% black, 11% latino, 4% asian and amazingly only 1% american indian.

With being outnumbered to such a large degree, many of those minorities are going to need help. It's just a fact of life that people treat other people different based on the color of their skin.


[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

morphius
12-20-2000, 06:58 PM
Cannibal - Where did you get those stats?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 06:59 PM
http://www.indiana.edu/~shs/population.html

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:02 PM
Cannibal, I belive that minorities can work through these difficulties that face them. They are not more helpless than we are because of the color of thier skin. Now it is true that they might have to work harder, and while that is not right, that is still the way it is. But adversity makes for character, and character makes for a better person. The difference between you and me, is that you think that they are to helpless to overcome lifes struggles with out help from big brother. I on the otherhand belive that they are human beings just like us, and therefore can overcome lifes struggles on thier own. The color of your skin does not affect your mind and spirit.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - to all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:04 PM
I also have the Attica World Atlas on CD-Rom and according to Attica, the US is:

85% White

12% Black

3% Other minorities<P>

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:06 PM
hader,

They shouldn't have to work any harder than anyone else. And until there becomes a time that we are all truly equal, minorities will need programs like affirmative action.

morphius
12-20-2000, 07:09 PM
Cannibal - The only way we can be equal is to have equal numbers?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:10 PM
BTW hader,

This is large steaming pile of horse dung.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>The difference between you and me, is that you think that they are to helpless to overcome lifes struggles with out help from big brother. I on the otherhand belive that they are human beings just like us, and therefore can overcome lifes struggles on thier own.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never once said that minorities are helpless. That sounds like your boy Rush talking.

All I've ever said is that without affirmative action, many, many white business owners would hire mostly all white people. It has been proven throughout the history of this country.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:10 PM
Cannibal, there will never be true equality in many people's minds. Racicsim will be with us as long as there are people on earth. The only way you can change someone is through the heart, not by forcing them to hire somebody. And as I stated earlier today, affirmative action discriminates. It discriminates against whites, and against the more qualified.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - to all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:12 PM
Morphius,

Not necessarily, but I do think that that has a lot to do with it.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:12 PM
Cannibal, my point exactly! You think they need government programs to help them. I say that they are capable human beings just like you and me.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - to all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:15 PM
And not having affirmative action will cause even more minorities to be discriminated against.

Until we come up with a better solution, affirmative action is the only way alleviate [notice I didn't say solve] this problem.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:16 PM
Cannibal, two wrongs do not a right make! Think about that for a little while.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - to all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:17 PM
Let's hear a better solution...


This should be pretty good...

morphius
12-20-2000, 07:17 PM
Cannibal - The diff is that I think quota's and the such are wrong, and that if you can prove that you should have been hired then take the creep to court, that is their right as aAmericans.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:23 PM
A better solution is to do things the right way. As Morph just stated, if people can prove that they were turned down because of skin color, then take the sob's to court. As I stated, two wrongs do not a right make. So do things the way they should be done and let things take care of themselves. But of course you couldn't have that could you, you bleeding heart lib. Oh no, government is the answer to all of our problems. They can make everything better. :rolleyes: Listen up, when you support affirmative action, you support another form of discrimination, you discriminate against people like me. And I for one will not stand for it.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - to all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:24 PM
I'm not saying I like quotas either, but I am saying that right now we have no better solution.

It is a necessary evil.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:25 PM
You must not have much confidence in your abilities raider.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:28 PM
Letting things "take of themselves" won't get it done.<P>

morphius
12-20-2000, 07:29 PM
Cannibal - No it is not. Any American can sue when discriminated by race or religion, just as it says in the constitution, it is their right as an American. It is not something that needs to be written into special law, it is already there.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:31 PM
This is America. This country was founded upon freedom, and personal responsibility. But you libs are trying to take that away. You want government running our lives. Government holds all the solutions. Let me ask you something, are government officals gods? Are they supernatural beings? NO. Therefore how can they know what is best for my life if they don't know what is going on in my life? They can't. They need to stay back and let life run it's course and let life take care of its self. But of course then they wouldn't have thier power, now would they?

If you want big gvernment running your life, move to Red China, and leave me and my country alone!

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:35 PM
We disagree.

With disparity in population and natural racial tensions we have no other viable alternative at this point.

Lawsuits cost money. They also take time. If you don't have a job it's kinda hard to finance a lawsuit that you may not win.

Lawsuits are not the answer to all of our problems. I thought you Right Wingers were against "the common man" suing corporations.<P>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:36 PM
I have plenty of confidence in my abilities! But what good are my abilities when, as you have agreed with me, I can be looked over for a job because my skin is white and the other guy's is black? You see, you are discriminating against me. And letting things take care of themselves will get the job done. Minnorities will find a way to survive and even succeed. They will have to win people over on thier own, government telling you that you have to hire someone, is only going to make you hate them even more.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>If you want big gvernment running your life, move to Red China, and leave me and my country alone!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if you want to be free of racial quotas and those pesky minorities, move to Germany and leave me and my country alone! :)

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:38 PM
I have no problems with lawsuits, unless they are stupid ones like that old gal, and the cup of hot coffee. Duh! What did you think you were getting? A cup of cold ice?

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:38 PM
rader,

Have you ever been passed over for a job based on the color of your skin?<P>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:40 PM
Sorry bub, but this country was not founded on government running people's lives. You are the one trying to change it, so if you don't like what it is meant to be, then go some place else. I ain't letting you have my country.

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[This message has been edited by raiderhader (edited 12-20-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:42 PM
No I haven't. But then again I am still young and have not applied for that many jobs.

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morphius
12-20-2000, 07:42 PM
Cannibal - That is why their are groups out there like the NAACP, if you can't afford and your case holds water they would be more then happy to take it on and the cost for you.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>my country<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awfully egotistical isn't it?


LOL!

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>That is why their are groups out there like the NAACP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another reason for that group would be that there is racism in this country.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:45 PM
How is that being egotistical? I am a born and bred American, it is my country. You know I have just noticed that you have come to the point were I have defeated all of your arguments, and now you are trying to nit pick little things in my statements. I love having the facts and the truth on my side! :)

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:46 PM
Then quit whining!

I can guarantee that unless you are severely physically, or mentally handicapped that you will be able to get a freakin job in your own city, or town.

Sounds like you've been listening to Daddy to much. Try thinking for yourself for a change.

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 07:48 PM
Cannibal,

Who are you to tell me that I need help to make it in this country? Typical liberal thinking. I started a business six years ago and did not ask for anyones help. I struggled like any other American would, starting a business. I saw what made America great and would want it no other way. Until liberals quit putting minorities in separate classes, we will always have the division on this issue. I just want to be seen as an American and have been blessed with customers that treat me so.

Dan

Hispanic with an attitude.<BR>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:48 PM
"another reason for that group would be that there is racism in this country". First of all, Duh! It's world wide. Secondly, why else would people be suing? You are nit picking again. :)

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morphius
12-20-2000, 07:48 PM
NAACP fights for more the race issues, that fight for people rights. If the laws in place were doing their job they probably wouldn't need to exsist would they?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:49 PM
You don't have squat except a bunch of Right Wing drivel that you get from your Dad. And he got it from Rush.

This is not "your country".

This country belongs to all Americans of all ethnic backgrounds.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:50 PM
The_Grand_Illusion,

Good for you. I'm happy for you. <BR>

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>If the laws in place were doing their job they probably wouldn't need to exsist would they?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I still think they would. Until we can find a better solution.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:54 PM
You agreed with me that people will be discriminated against so that minorities can have jobs. Are you forgetting that? I do think for myself. Anyone who knows me can tell you that. You know I find it kinda funny that a lib would tell someone to think for themselves. You people are the ones who take marching orders and ques from the DNC. You all have the same mantra. While Consevatives tend to be the independent thinkers. At least my Dad is a man. You should grow up and start acting like one.

I can throw personal insults around with the best, so if you really want to get into that we can. But I would hope that you are above that.

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Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:56 PM
Cannibal, I don't have to let my Dad tell me what Rush says, I hear for myself. And no he doesn't make me listen, I choose to do that.

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Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 07:58 PM
Cannibal, earlier you asked me for a better soloution. Now I ask you for one. This ought to be interesting since libs don't belive in solutions. They belive in problems so as to have campaing issues.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 07:59 PM
The percentage of white americans that lose out on a job to a minority is minuscule compared to the number of minorities that face discrimination on a daily basis.

You are not a minority, so you wouldn't know what that is like. Try to look at the situation from all sides.

Not just the white man's side.

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:00 PM
And yes this is to my country. Do I own it, no. But I was born into it. This country belongs to anyone who belives in freedom, and personal responsibility.

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Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:03 PM
I see it from all sides. Contrary to what you people say, it is you libs who are the narrow minded ones.

Oh, and another question for you, out of all of the years of who knows how many promises to minorities, how many of them have you followed through on?

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Cannibal, earlier you asked me for a better soloution. Now I ask you for one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have said numerous times on this thread that we have no better solution at this point and that affirmative action is a necessary evil.

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:05 PM
What promises?

I never promised anyone anything.

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 08:07 PM
Cannibal,

You don't get it. It's the Libs that divides this country over race. In this day and age, race should not matter. The best qualified person for a job, so to speak, should get it, regardless of race. I see access to education very important for minorities to get ahead not handing someone a job just because the color of their skin. I have said before that this is wrong even though this would benefit me as a minority. Affirmitive action looks to divide the races. Geez, even I can see that.

Dan

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:07 PM
The dems have made promises to the minorities telling them that they were going to make things better for them. It still has not come to pass.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:09 PM
It's going to take time.

There are many people in this country that don't want that to happen.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:09 PM
TGI, hit it right on the head. You people are the ones that want to focus on race, Conservatives tend to look at people as simply that, people.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:11 PM
TGI,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>In this day and age, race should not matter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it should not matter. But unfortunately it does. And probably will for a very long time.

morphius
12-20-2000, 08:12 PM
Cannibal - See, you offer no solution other then the solution that has not worked in 40 years. Should we stick with for another 40 to prove that it isn't helping anything or should we try running the US properly and say that the gov't treat each individual equal under the law?

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:13 PM
"You are not a minority, so you wouldn't know what that is like. Try to look at the situation from all sides."
I do know what it is like to be discriminated against, you are discriminating against me right now.



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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:14 PM
Right now people aren't treating each other equally. And without force from the government many white people would simply ignore minorities. That is why the law was enacted in the first place. <P>

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:16 PM
How am I "discriminating against you" right now?

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:16 PM
Do you think by forcing someone to acknowledge someone is going to make them like them? They will hate them even more, and probaly make life a living hellfor them at work. Once again, government is not the answer.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:17 PM
It may not make them like them.

But it will provide equal opportunity.

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:20 PM
You support affirmative action wich discriminates against me and others like me. By supporting it you support discriminating against me, and therefore discriminate against me. Libs are also the ones who automaticaly assume that if you are a Christinan Conservative, you are a racists, and a bigot ( see earlier in this topic). That is not just discrimination, it is stereotyping, wich libs claim to be against.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:20 PM
Can you get a job?

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:22 PM
Eaqual opportunity, yeah right! Like these minorities are really going to move up in the company! Please, don't insult my intellegence. Even thopugh I am young, I still know a thing or two. Heck, looking at this discussion, I know more than you. Pretty pathetic huh? A 19 year old showing you up.

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Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:24 PM
Yes, but that is besides the point. The point is you support a program that discriminates against whites, I am white, you discriminate against me. Stick to the issue.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:24 PM
You aren't showing anyone anything except that you haven't bothered to take a look outside your little white world.

Once again, can you get a job?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:25 PM
If you can get a job, then you haven't been discriminated against through affirmative action.<P>

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 08:27 PM
Cannibal,

You are cracking me up. "White people ignore minorities???" Personally, I have never been ignored for a job by a white person. In fact, I have worked for many caucasion small businesses. One person I consider a mentor because he taught me very much about small business. I am very grateful to him for that. Your theories in my case just don't hold up.

Dan<BR>

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:28 PM
TGI,

Not everyone is racist. But some are.

Are you telling me that racism does not exist?

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:28 PM
I have never bothered to take a look outside my little white world. How the he11 would you know that? If you knew anything about me and my family, you would know that we spent about two years working with at risk, and gang kids, trying to help them get on the right track. Let me tell you, that is not a very white, or wealthy world. I know about that life, possibly more than you, but since I know nothing about you, I can't say for sure.

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Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:31 PM
Affirmative action is discrimination. Pure and simple, ain't no two ways about it. It discriminates against whites, I am in that catagory, therefore that program discriminates against me. And so does anyone who supports it.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>If you knew anything about me and my family, you would know that we spent about two years working with at risk, and gang kids, trying to help them get on the right track.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh really? Where was this? What was the organization called? How many kids did you help? What were there names? How old were they? How did you help them?

morphius
12-20-2000, 08:32 PM
Cannibal - Are you arguing that a majority of the majorities are racist and not a minority of the majority?

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:33 PM
We simply disagree.<P>

Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:36 PM
I think it's closer to a majority than a minority. But I don't think that a majority of the majority are outright flaming racists.

I think much of it is "closet" racism.



[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 08:38 PM
Cannibal,

Yes, racism does exists in our society to a degree (on all sides). Personally, I have not experienced this in the jobs that I have held. I do believe though that racism is not as bad as liberals would like you to believe it is. I believe, at this time in our country, affirmative action would do more harm than good.

Dan<BR>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:39 PM
You are a real a$$, you know that? This was in Deming NM. We called it the 22:30 Program. The exact number of kids that came altogether, would be hard to say, but we had up to 60-65 kids coming on Wed. night at one time. Just to give a few names, Sandra, Abel, Lalo, Mark, Anthony, Ramon, Brandy, Angel, and a whole lot more. We helped them by first of all letting them know that there were people who cared for them, after they learned this and trusted us, we would then offer advice on how to live better lives, how to become good citizens, good siblings, good sons and daughters (wich was really hard since the parents usaully didn't give a flip about them), and how to succeed in life. Some listened, most didn't. They were set in thier ways. Hope I have passed your stupid little quiz.

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Cannibal
12-20-2000, 08:42 PM
Sounds like a lot of good work for a 19-year-old. Most teenagers haven't experienced enough in life to be qualified enough to offer advise to others. But maybe you are the exception to the rule.

We still disagree about affirmative action and racism though, and probably always will until a better solution comes along.

Gotta go, the ole lady is a callin my name.


[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 12-20-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 08:47 PM
We shall continue to disagree on AM. It does nothing but bring our country down. Even TGI, a self proclaimed minority says so. I would think that his expertise in the matter should be enough to convince you.

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Baby Lee
12-20-2000, 09:01 PM
Regarding equality:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> There are many people in this country that don't want that to happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think we all agree on this premise. But we differ wildly on whop those people necessarily are. Conjuring the image of the 'good ole boy' is the easiest. We've seen the movies, the afterschool specials, the dramatizations, as well as the factual historical footage. But you can't stop there. Making one legal precept designed to protect minorities of the power of the 'good ole boys' of the world and ignoring the harmful side effects of that precept is giving up on the people your trying to help.

Case in point, and a conservative idea you WILL see implemented in the near future. There is affirmative action in construction contracts, offering preferential status to minority bids. Problem is, the projects are too big for start-up businesses to tackle no matter how the field is tilted. Either they will not be able to make even a credible bid, or they bite off more they can chew. In the latter instance, their failure further stigmatizes the start-up. Look for projects to start being defined smaller and opened to everyone. This affords entreprenuerial groups an in and supply them with steady work to go from start-ups to big-bad-business.

Look further, eschew the simple [but wrong] answers.

Archie F. Swin
12-20-2000, 09:04 PM
raiderhader,

Your arguments are welcome but your definition of liberalism (post after post)is offensive

This is the definition of liberalism according to Websters.

a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties

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Chief Justice Pants
(D)- Texas

The_Grand_Illusion
12-20-2000, 09:26 PM
Raiderhater,

That's cool that you tried to help those kids. I too have seen these type of kids. All you can do is try. If only one of these kids listens, and they change their life for the better, it will make the world a better place, thanks to you.

Dan<BR>

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 09:45 PM
CRP, my definition of liberalism is the correct one. My definition is of today's liberals. Libs are for big government heavily involved, with the intention of one day running, in our lives because we are to stupid to how to do it ourselves. And I don't need a dictonary to tell me that. I have you libs trying to run my life along with everybody else. A couple of quick examples. SS - The libs think that I and others are to stupid to take care of our own retirement. Taxes - we are to stupid to know how to best spend our money, so the government needs to take of much of it away as they can, so that they can spend it more wisely. I could go, and on, and.... So don't tell me what the definition of liberalism is, I know because I face it every day.
And also I find it kinda stupid that a lib would tell me to get the definition of thier idealology right when, they define us Conservatives as bigoted, racists, homophobes, and women haters ( see earlier in this topic). I don't think that is the definition you would find in Webster's under Conservative. So I really don't care if you are offended. I think you should try practicing what you preach.

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Logical
12-20-2000, 09:51 PM
Cannibal.

What kind of silly statement is

"I think it's closer to a majority than a minority."

It is either a minority or a majority (unless it is exactly 50% to 50%). It is impossible to be closer to either a majority or minority, this is a simple fact of numerical reference.

So which is it Cannibal? Make your position known, no more fence straddling.

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:01 PM
CRP

Evidently Webster never met a liberal from the United States.

A liberal is defined in the United States by:

They believe the government is our rightful parents.

The desire to redistribute money and property from those who earn it (unless they are liberal and rich) to those who do not.

The idea that the government can run any enterprise better than the private sector (and we will use 10 times as many people to do the job to prove it)- LMAO on this one.

That if we as a country roll over to the rest of the world it will ensure peace in our time. I guess they learned that from Chamberlain, and forgot to read the rest of the story.

There is so much more that takes US liberals away from Websters definition that it is not worth the time.

____________________________________________
Liberalism is antithetical to the foundation of US heritage and greatness. (Try hating that one for something new)

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:18 PM
Logical,

Is it silly to say "I think it's more likely than not that at least 3 O-rings on that booster rocket will fail next launch"? Just as one can't know how many O-rings will fail (until after the launch has occurred), one can't know what is the exact percentage of racists in this country. That doesn't mean one can't make guesses and try to quantify how certain or uncertain one is about how good the guess is. We statisticians do that all the time (e.g. A 95% confidence-interval for the percentage of folks who approve of such-and-so is 58% plus or minus 10%).

Cannibal's statement easily lends itself to the non-silly interpretation "I don't know for certain how many people are racist, but I believe (based on my contact with a sample of the population) that it's more likely to be a majority of the population than a minority." I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Cannibal's statement, I'm just parsing the syntax. To me, it's not a silly statement because neither he nor any of us know for sure how many racists there really are. (If the truth were known, you would of course be correct in pointing out the silliness of a probability-couched guess at the truth!)

Raiderhader
12-20-2000, 10:26 PM
Listen to the way Logical put it, he said the same thing I did, but it flowed alot better. I am just not as good communicating via the written word as opposed to the spoken. Although, I have gotten better since I found this site. Practice makes perfect.

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DanT
12-20-2000, 10:28 PM
Hey Logical,

Of course, what you said is quite literally true--my interpretation only makes sense if one interprets the word "closer" to mean idiomatically "more likely to be true". If one interprets the word "closer" to mean, say, "closer", then who could possibly deny the correctness of your claim http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:29 PM
Dan T,


I respect you tremendously, but the statement

"I think it's closer to a majority than a minority."

does not fit your hypothetical. This statement cannot make sense, as close to a majority is a minority. That is the simplest way I can put it. If it is closer to a minority then it is a majority.

Defending his fence straddling does not make sense.

If he wants to do what you suggest he should pick majority or minority and say the following on where his belief lies.

I believe it is a (majority - minority, his belief) however, I cannot say with certainty.

My point is be clear on your belief then put in the disclaimer.

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-20-2000).]

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:33 PM
Logical,

Cut us statisticians some slack--we're so used to covering our asses with our probabilistic statements that we start reading confidence intervals into everyone else's statements, too! http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:34 PM
By the way Dan T. I was posting when you somewhat recanted.

Sorry.

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:36 PM
We engineers come from it in a different perspective.

When we define what you get, we want to be as precise as possible so you cannot tell us you did not obtain that which was offered.

Statistician, huh. Damn would not want to play poker with you.

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:36 PM
Logical,

No need to apologize. I should have been more literal when I read your first reply. Besides, your reply to my reply is one of the most civil ones in this whole thread, so I took no offense at all to it.

Best regards!

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:39 PM
One of the jokes about statisticians is that we're the only occupation that reserves the right to be wrong 5% of the time (that's how often one would be wrong if one always used 95% confidence-intervals and the equivalent--such as rejecting the null hypothesis if the p-value was less than 0.05).

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:40 PM
Happy holidays to you Dan T.

I started my season early, as I will be off from now to January 2nd, it is nice.

What has you up so late in the Windy City, you off for the holidays as well.

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:41 PM
Oh drat you 6 sigma types.

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:42 PM
Yep. I'll about to leave the office now. I need to get a project done before I fly out to sunny California (Davis, so it's not as sunny as where you live but almost) to celebrate Christmas with my sweetheart and her family (she done left me all alone: we're doing the long-distance romance thing).

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:44 PM
LOL!

Hey, W.E. Deming (the quality guru) and Florence Nightingale were statisticians. We're not all bad!

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 12-20-2000).]

Logical
12-20-2000, 10:45 PM
Yes you mentioned the long distance thing before. Obviously if you are headed that way it is working out OK. Is their a 95% probability point to when it returns to a up close and personal day to day status?

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:47 PM
Happy Holidays, Logical. If you want to have a white Christmas, there's plenty of snow in the rest of the country, but I'm sure you'll be able to manage without it if you want.

Very best regards!

DanT
12-20-2000, 10:48 PM
It's heading toward the 95% point, that's for sure. I think a coupla' more December blizzards will get me there!

Luzap
12-20-2000, 10:57 PM
I didn't realize that the power of my ideas were so threatening to Clint and Cannibal.

Luz
oh well...

Clint in Wichita
12-21-2000, 07:48 AM
Give it a rest, Luzap. Nothing you have to say could threaten me in any way, because you aren't intelligent enough to "educate" me at all. You simply spout the same conservative garbage over and over again.

BTW, why do disappear from the BB after every KC loss?

Raiderhader,

As a 19 year old, you know nothing about ANYTHING that isn't printed in a textbook you've already used. At this point you simply mimick what you hear from a teacher, professor, or Mommy and Daddy.

Shouldn't you be chasing tail and attending keg parties rather than debating about racism on the internet?

Well, maybe not.

Brock
12-21-2000, 08:05 AM
He's 19? Dude, what are you doing here?

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 08:35 AM
Clint, talking about mimicking people, have you gotten your daily marching orders from your local DNC HQ? Unlike most kids these days, I think for myself on these issues. Most don't start till later in life, but I am the exception. As far as text books, I have plent of life experience, granted not as much as most of you, but enough to know what is going on out there. You wouldn't belive me, but I really don't care. I know who I am, and that is all that counts.

Brock, I am here, because I love Chiefs football. I am in this topic because I love politics in general. Is that OK with you?
(not that I really care)

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Brock
12-21-2000, 08:42 AM
No need to get pissy.

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 08:43 AM
Well what kind of a stupid question was that?

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Brock
12-21-2000, 08:45 AM
Kid, who lit the fuse on your tampon?

Clint in Wichita
12-21-2000, 08:47 AM
I'm not a liberal, but on this BB there aren't many ridiculous, over-the-top posts by liberals to disagree with.

Let me guess. Your parents are conservatives too, right? If you are religious, you probably belong to the same church that they do.

There's nothing wrong with that, but at 19 your life experience is limited unless you're the next Kobe Bryant or something. I thought I knew everything at 19, as we all did.

Your signature says it all:

"liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans"

Besides the inaccuracy of the idea behind the statement, the "liberalism is racists" part of the sig makes me wonder if "conservatism is dolts".

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 09:00 AM
Brock, it was a stupid question insinuating that I don't belong here.

Clint, I will be the first to tell you that I don't know everything, but I know a lot more than most kids my age. I also have a lot of adults beat. Just look at this topic. I have wait a minute! I am being discriminated against again! This is age discrimination! You hypocrites. I thought discrimination was a bad thing. I guess only if it is pointed at blacks. Hypocrites. Anyways. My signature is completely true. Liberalism is bigoted towards all people. Period. No two ways about it. You will not convince me other wise. Try being a Christian Conservative in this land today. Liberals hate us, and do everything in thier powers to undermind us. You may, or may not agree as to wether it is justified or not, but last time I looked, we were still Americans who are free to belive what we want. But liberals treat us other wise. That sir, is discrimination.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Brock
12-21-2000, 09:06 AM
Touchy, touchy.

Clint in Wichita
12-21-2000, 09:21 AM
Raiderhader,

You haven't posted any facts about liberals, only opinions, which is fine.

IMO Christian Conservatives are the scariest people in the country, outside of violent felons. Most people that link religion and politics make my skin crawl. They want to incorporate their religious beliefs into American politics, even though they can't come up with one shred of hard evidence to prove that God, or ANY god, for that matter, exists at all.

Want to see what happens when you base your government on a religion? Check out a few Middle Eastern countries. Those people are killing each other over figments of their imagination.

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 12-21-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 09:28 AM
Clint, you would not have gotten along with our Founding Fathers would you? They were all religious men, who (if you do the research you will find) based this country on religion. The reason it has worked for us is because they founded on the one true God. As for wether or not God does exist, I ask you to prove to me that he doesn't. Again, I thought we were still Americans who had the right to belive in what we want. I guess that is as long as it lines up with the liberal agenda, we can.
As for my "opions" on liberals, they aren't opions, they hard facts. I know because I have to deal with them. This is from experience in person, and in the form of a more liberal government.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Iowanian
12-21-2000, 09:28 AM
clint,

our country IS based somewhat on religion....Take one of the moldy dollars out of your pocket and read it..."IN GOD WE TRUST"...right there on the dollar...

"One Nation, Under GOD.."

any of this ringing a bell?

Baby Lee
12-21-2000, 09:32 AM
Clint - I think the fact that you actually have a heirarchy of [ethnic, religious, background, etc.] traits of American citizens, arranged by how much they scare you tells us a lot about how you view the world.

Brock
12-21-2000, 09:32 AM
Which true god is that?

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 09:37 AM
Jesus Christ.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Brock
12-21-2000, 09:38 AM
Sorry, I don't see Jesus Christ mentioned in the Constitution of the United States.

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 09:39 AM
Who said anything about the Constitution?

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Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 09:44 AM
Arguing with libs is like arguing with women, they hit you up with so much other stuff that has nothing to do with what you are discussing, that before long you are taken of track.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Clint in Wichita
12-21-2000, 09:53 AM
The Founding Fathers saw to it that church & state were seperate, and most of them were not Christians. When did Jesus become the one true God? I always thought he was the SON of God. My mistake!

Raiderhader,

"As for my "opinions" on liberals, they aren't opions, they hard facts. I know because I have to deal with them. This is from experience in person, and in the form of a more liberal government."

Well, I've dealt with MANY racist conservatives, and Christians that hate "fags" because they "choose to be gay". Does that mean that IF I say conservatives are ignorant racists it's true? NO. It's still just my opinion.

BTW I don't feel that all conservatives are that way, it was just an example.

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 12-21-2000).]

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 09:59 AM
Clint, go read your Constitution. The first amendment says absolutely nothing about "seperation of churh and state". It says, and I qoute, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exrcise thereof;". The Founding Fathers were not trying to keep religion out of politics, they were trying to keep politics out of religion. Earlier you stated that the only things I know come from the school books I read, well perhaps you should read a few of them yourself.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 10:01 AM
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and God. Have you ever heard of the Trinity?

Baby Lee
12-21-2000, 10:05 AM
What the HE-double hockey sticks does carrots, onions and celery have to do with anything?

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 10:07 AM
JC, thanks for the humor. It is getting kinda hot and heavy in hear. A little comic relief is welcome.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Luzap
12-21-2000, 10:09 AM
Raiderhader,

"The Founding Fathers were not trying to keep religion out of politics, they were trying to keep politics out of religion."

Kudos!

This is wisdom far beyond your years.

Luz
methinks the opposition will not respond to this...

Baby Lee
12-21-2000, 10:12 AM
methinks they'll call you an idiot for using the term 'methinks'

Raiderhader
12-21-2000, 10:12 AM
Luz, how can they respond? It is easy when we use the qoutes that they hand pick, but when we use the truth, they have no place to run to. We should start calling them on thier qoutes, and sound bites, and respond with the Constitution, or other facts.

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liberalism is racists, and bigoted - towards all humans

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Clint in Wichita
12-21-2000, 10:18 AM
"The Founding Fathers were not trying to keep religion out of politics, they were trying to keep politics out of religion."

Either way, the two were meant to be seperated.

BTW, who said anything about the first amendment.

God & Jesus are not the same being. I'm not even religious & I know that.

If they are the same being, then was Jesus saving us from himself when he allegedly died on the cross?

If they are the same being, then who is Jesus the son of?

Mi_chief_fan
12-21-2000, 10:20 AM
It's kinda hard to please everyone. How can we possibly base our laws on Christian beliefs when this country is made up of such ethnic diversity?

Christians aren't praying to the same God as Jews, Muslims, and Asians, for the most part.

Baby Lee
12-21-2000, 10:22 AM
Omigod!! You REALLY don't know. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three facets of the same being, the Trinity, three in one.

Brock
12-21-2000, 10:23 AM
America is supposed to be a melting pot, not forcing religious dogma like "one true god" onto people who don't believe in it. Save your fanaticism for someone who wants to hear it.

Iowanian
12-21-2000, 10:23 AM
clint,

now you are just being an @$$hole.

Clint in Wichita
12-21-2000, 10:26 AM
Mi_Chief_Fan,

I agree. Why would we want to, anyway?

If everyone lived their lives exactly the way "God" wants them to, life would be incredibly boring. Skipping around like a manic-depressive on an upswing and saying "Praise Jesus" at the end of every sentence is unacceptable to me. If others want to behave that way, fine, but keep that crap out of my government.