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View Full Version : Was Geather's hit legal or illegal?


PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:17 PM
I'm seeing a lot of opinions on this, lets put it to a Poll.



I think I'll just edit and drop this pic here...

Here's an interesting pic I found or the play on GoChiefs' pics thread (thanks GoChiefs)....


Couple of things to notice here...

1) Kennison is already passing by Geathers' and his legs are still driving towards Green.

2) Green is CLEARLY sliding and Geathers' feet are both planted on the turn at this point.

3) Look at Geather's facemask, the ONLY way he could see Green's face is if he is looking through one of the air vents on the top of his helmet. Now, both players' momentum kept this from technically being helmet to helmet BUT it sure looks like he was trying to spear Green from this pic

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=61321&stc=1

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:17 PM
hope there are more than 2 options.

Mecca
09-10-2006, 10:18 PM
On the legal illegal front it probably should have gotten a flag because of how the league protects QB's.

I don't think it was an intentionally dirty play though.

Bwana
09-10-2006, 10:19 PM
Cheap shot

Bugeater
09-10-2006, 10:20 PM
I've seen flags thrown many times for much less.

Bill Parcells
09-10-2006, 10:23 PM
it was a cheap shot..he could have held back..

he kind of looked like a cat stalking it's prey..

green was already half way down before he even hit him.and he was going for his head.he could have held up

CHEAP SHOT!!!
without a doubt

ChiefsCountry
09-10-2006, 10:24 PM
Its an extremly iffy call, with the angles we see on tv it makes alittle eaiser for us to see. Personally it looked a little cheap, but from the refs angle on the field :shrug:

Bowser
09-10-2006, 10:24 PM
On the legal illegal front it probably should have gotten a flag because of how the league protects QB's.

I don't think it was an intentionally dirty play though.

Then what was his intent? If Trent hadn't gone into a slide, Geathers would have pulled a Rodney Harrison and destroyed Trent's knees.

Geathers was looking for a kill shot, period.

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:25 PM
I've seen flags thrown many times for much less.


Yeah, and they were against us in some cases. And in Denver no less.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:25 PM
it was a cheap shot..he could have held back..

he kind of looked like a cat stalking it's prey..

green was already half way down before he even hit him.and he was going for his head.he could have held up

CHEAP SHOT!!!
without a doubt



As I stated in another thread somewhere else around here, it looked to me like Kennison did actually change Geather's angle a bit. But instead of knocking him INTO Green as the announcers said, it looked to me like the hit on Green would have been much more severe had Kennison not diverted him a little.

TrickyNicky
09-10-2006, 10:26 PM
If you won't distinguish a difference between illegal and dirty/cheap, then I vote for illegal. He laid a clean (meaning pads on pads) hit too late on a sliding QB. It's a foul for sure. I'm still not convinced it was entirely dirty or cheap.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:26 PM
I've seen flags thrown many times for much less.


Yeah, like when Parker got called for offensive pass interference on that 20 yard reception. Looked to me like he slowed up and stuck his hand out to feel for the defender. Didn't look like he ever touched him though.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:27 PM
If you won't distinguish a difference between illegal and dirty/cheap, then I vote for illegal. He laid a clean (meaning pads on pads) hit too late on a sliding QB. It's a foul for sure. I'm still not convinced it was entirely dirty or cheap.



My main point is, should it have drawn a flag or not.

KcMizzou
09-10-2006, 10:27 PM
My main point is, should it have drawn a flag or not.Absolutely

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:28 PM
BTW, I really like the public poll option which allows you to click on the number of votes to see who voted for what.

Bowser
09-10-2006, 10:28 PM
Yeah, like when Parker got called for offensive pass interference on that 20 yard reception. Looked to me like he slowed up and stuck his hand out to feel for the defender. Didn't look like he ever touched him though.

That was a turd of a call.

Tim Carter of the Giants got called offensive P.I., and his hands DIDN'T EVEN TOUCH THE DEFENDER! Carter's Giants were playing the Colts; Parker's Chiefs were playing the Bungels. Coincidence? :hmmm:

whoman69
09-10-2006, 10:29 PM
As I stated in another thread somewhere else around here, it looked to me like Kennison did actually change Geather's angle a bit. But instead of knocking him INTO Green as the announcers said, it looked to me like the hit on Green would have been much more severe had Kennison not diverted him a little.
I'm not buying the fact that a 185 lb wide reciever was able to change the trajectory of a 300 lb lineman. I was incredulous that there was no foul called, but the refs seemed stunned. Trent was going into a slide and there was no reason that Gathers should have been in a position to hit him. If Kennison did not block on the play it could have been worse. As it was his head hit the turf very violently.

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:30 PM
That was a turd of a call.

Tim Carter of the Giants got called offensive P.I., and his hands DIDN'T EVEN TOUCH THE DEFENDER! Carter's Giants were playing the Colts; Parker's Chiefs were playing the Bungels. Coincidence? :hmmm:


You mean Mangina and Carsonova.

ChiefFan31
09-10-2006, 10:31 PM
Yes, it was a cheap shot.

Best way I can put it (echoing sentiments already stated really) is that if the exact same thing happened to Golden Boy Palmer it would have resulted in that player getting ejected and probably a record fine.

Fox Sports would have teleported Joe Buck into the booth with Randy ****ing Cross and he would have went on and on how classless it was and repeatedly and profusely apologized to the viewers for having to watch it.

Mecca
09-10-2006, 10:33 PM
You mean Mangina and Carsonova.

.......Ok I know we played the Bengals today and all but what's wrong with Carson Palmer? Is it just cool to hate people once they get good or some such anymore?

Dunit35
09-10-2006, 10:34 PM
Randy Cross is a moron and needs to watch the plays alittle better before he opens his mouth. I still don't think Kennison touched Geathers to begin with.

Bowser
09-10-2006, 10:34 PM
.......Ok I know we played the Bengals today and all but what's wrong with Carson Palmer? Is it just cool to hate people once they get good or some such anymore?

He's reached near Mangina levels of NFL Golden Boy-itis.

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:35 PM
.......Ok I know we played the Bengals today and all but what's wrong with Carson Palmer? Is it just cool to hate people once they get good or some such anymore?


When the media drools all over a player I tend to dislike them. So sue me.

Mecca
09-10-2006, 10:36 PM
He's reached near Mangina levels of NFL Golden Boy-itis.

But um that's really not his fault he's just become a really good player. He's not even remotely as annoying as Manning is and hell I find Brady more annoying than anyone and no one is ever talking shit on him around here.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:36 PM
I'm not buying the fact that a 185 lb wide reciever was able to change the trajectory of a 300 lb lineman. I was incredulous that there was no foul called, but the refs seemed stunned. Trent was going into a slide and there was no reason that Gathers should have been in a position to hit him. If Kennison did not block on the play it could have been worse. As it was his head hit the turf very violently.


Wow, you make those weight differences seem dramatic. Kennison is actually 200 pounds and Geathers is actually 265 pounds. I am right at 300 pounds and I am sure that a 185 lb of all muscle dude can move me a bit once I am air-born.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:37 PM
That was a turd of a call.

Tim Carter of the Giants got called offensive P.I., and his hands DIDN'T EVEN TOUCH THE DEFENDER! Carter's Giants were playing the Colts; Parker's Chiefs were playing the Bungels. Coincidence? :hmmm:


I don't have many doubts that there are favorites in the NFL that get the breaks. Anyone doubts me, tell me how the Steelers won the SB.

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:39 PM
I don't have many doubts that there are favorites in the NFL that get the breaks. Anyone doubts me, tell me how the Steelers won the SB.
Sure they do.

See John Elway, Dan Marino, Mangina etc.

Mecca
09-10-2006, 10:39 PM
When the media drools all over a player I tend to dislike them. So sue me.

Ah........I have this theory that alot of people who are fans of this team, and some others have what I call "the little guy syndrome". Where if on TV a player on another team gets talked about alot they hate him because their team isn't getting enough respect. Then during games if the announcer happens to say something bad about the team, or a player they like not doing something well, they flip out and make threads about how the guys a ****ing moron and doesn't know anything.......

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:41 PM
Ah........I have this theory that alot of people who are fans of this team, and some others have what I call "the little guy syndrome". Where if on TV a player on another team gets talked about alot they hate him because their team isn't getting enough respect. Then during games if the announcer happens to say something bad about the team, or a player they like not doing something well, they flip out and make threads about how the guys a ****ing moron and doesn't know anything.......


Some people just like to see themselves post too.

Bowser
09-10-2006, 10:41 PM
But um that's really not his fault he's just become a really good player. He's not even remotely as annoying as Manning is and hell I find Brady more annoying than anyone and no one is ever talking shit on him around here.

Do you think Jared Allen would have drawn a personal foul if he laid the exact same hit on Palmer, with the results being the same?

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:42 PM
Do you think Jared Allen would have drawn a personal foul if he laid the exact same hit on Palmer, with the results being the same?


Flag, ejection, and fine.

KcMizzou
09-10-2006, 10:42 PM
But um that's really not his fault he's just become a really good player. I don't have a problem with Palmer either.

People were calling for the Chiefs to take him out as payback for the shot on Trent... which I think is stupid. Hell, Palmer didn't do it.

On the other hand, if they'd have crushed Geathers, I'd have been fine with it.

Mecca
09-10-2006, 10:43 PM
Do you think Jared Allen would have drawn a personal foul if he laid the exact same hit on Palmer, with the results being the same?

Good question I don't dispute that it should have drawn a flag because it should of.

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:43 PM
Do you think Jared Allen would have drawn a personal foul if he laid the exact same hit on Palmer, with the results being the same?


Yeah plus a fine.

Mecca
09-10-2006, 10:44 PM
I don't have a problem with Palmer either.

People were calling for the Chiefs to take him out as payback for the shot on Trent... which I think is stupid. Hell, Palmer didn't do it.

On the other hand, if they'd have crushed Geathers, I'd have been fine with it.

See I thought that was bad too, Palmer didn't do anything to Trent. Palmers really a class guy I don't see why anyone would personally hate the guy.

OnTheWarpath58
09-10-2006, 10:44 PM
Do you think Jared Allen would have drawn a personal foul if he laid the exact same hit on Palmer, with the results being the same?

Abso-****ing-lutely.

And probably an ejection and fine.....

greg63
09-10-2006, 10:45 PM
Yeah plus a fine.

Yep!

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:48 PM
See I thought that was bad too, Palmer didn't do anything to Trent. Palmers really a class guy I don't see why anyone would personally hate the guy.


Most of us don't have a problem with him as a person or a player. It is just the media shoving him down our throats. I thank palmer is a class act and am happy he recovered. I just don't want to hear about him all the time.

tk13
09-10-2006, 10:51 PM
I will say, if that had happened to Manning or Brady, the league would've imploded. It would've been the riot to end all riots.

KcMizzou
09-10-2006, 10:52 PM
I will say, if that had happened to Manning, the league would've imploded. It would've been the riot to end all riots.And Geathers would have been painted as the most vile cheap-shotting thug in the league.

Guru
09-10-2006, 10:53 PM
I will say, if that had happened to Manning, the league would've imploded. It would've been the riot to end all riots.


Oh man, there would have been yellow flags all over the place.

ChiefsCountry
09-10-2006, 10:55 PM
See I thought that was bad too, Palmer didn't do anything to Trent. Palmers really a class guy I don't see why anyone would personally hate the guy.

Dude you come to rescue from everyone from USC don't you. That being said, I like Palmer hes a good qb and real class act.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:57 PM
I will say, if that had happened to Manning or Brady, the league would've imploded. It would've been the riot to end all riots.

If that had happened to Peyton Manning, whichever Chiefs player did it would have been taken out to the 50 yard line and shot by one of the refs. Then the Commisioner would have suspended the entire KC Chiefs team for 4 games.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 10:59 PM
I love the fact that some posters don't have enough , er, uhm, uh gumption, yeah gumption to vote no without logging out first so their name doesn't show up.

:)

Nzoner
09-10-2006, 11:20 PM
All I know is about 10 minutes after the hit Hasselback of Seattle took a similar shot and the ref wasted no time throwing the flag and calling a personal foul.

My guests and I in the gameroom were pretty much settling down,saw that and erupted again in obscenities at how the NFL refs are in no way consistent.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 11:48 PM
Here's an interesting pic I found or the play on GoChiefs' pics thread (thanks GoChiefs)....


Couple of things to notice here...

1) Kennison is already passing by Geathers' and his legs are still driving towards Green.

2) Green is CLEARLY sliding and Geathers' feet are both planted on the turn at this point.

3) Look at Geather's facemask, the ONLY way he could see Green's face is if he is looking through one of the air vents on the top of his helmet. Now, both players' momentum kept this from technically being helmet to helmet BUT it sure looks like he was trying to spear Green from this pic

Boyceofsummer
09-10-2006, 11:48 PM
where is this guy when you need him?

Guru
09-10-2006, 11:49 PM
Here's an interesting pic I found or the play on GoChiefs' pics thread (thanks GoChiefs)....


Couple of things to notice here...

1) Kennison is already passing by Geathers' and his legs are still driving towards Green.

2) Green is CLEARLY sliding and Geathers' feet are both planted on the turn at this point.

3) Look at Geather's facemask, the ONLY way he could see Green's face is if he is looking through one of the air vents on the top of his helmet. Now, both players' momentum kept this from technically being helmet to helmet BUT it sure looks like he was trying to spear Green from this pic


His intentions were evil.

Halfcan
09-10-2006, 11:51 PM
It looks like he is trying to spear Trent, because he was trying to do it, and then did it. Cheap shot.

What else do you expect from the jailbird Bungholes.

greg63
09-10-2006, 11:52 PM
Here's an interesting pic I found or the play on GoChiefs' pics thread (thanks GoChiefs)....


Couple of things to notice here...

1) Kennison is already passing by Geathers' and his legs are still driving towards Green.

2) Green is CLEARLY sliding and Geathers' feet are both planted on the turn at this point.

3) Look at Geather's facemask, the ONLY way he could see Green's face is if he is looking through one of the air vents on the top of his helmet. Now, both players' momentum kept this from technically being helmet to helmet BUT it sure looks like he was trying to spear Green from this pic

Basic Head Hunting 101

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 11:55 PM
Here's an interesting pic I found or the play on GoChiefs' pics thread (thanks GoChiefs)....


Couple of things to notice here...

1) Kennison is already passing by Geathers' and his legs are still driving towards Green.

2) Green is CLEARLY sliding and Geathers' feet are both planted on the turn at this point.

3) Look at Geather's facemask, the ONLY way he could see Green's face is if he is looking through one of the air vents on the top of his helmet. Now, both players' momentum kept this from technically being helmet to helmet BUT it sure looks like he was trying to spear Green from this pic
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=61321&stc=1



I'd like to hear the opinions of those who voted No after seeing this pic...

(All (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=674) we gotta do is click on the underlined numbers that tell the # of votes to see who you are...)

Seriously, how, after seeing this pic could someone call this anything BUT illegal?

Boyceofsummer
09-10-2006, 11:57 PM
I misread the poll. Sorry. KMBC 9 sports had video fom the back side. Kennison let-up. He probably feared a block in the back call. It was very clear from that angle. I did not see it until later. Did Herm explode? NO?

****in pussy

Guru
09-10-2006, 11:58 PM
I misread the poll. Sorry. KMBC 9 sports had video fom the back side. Kennison let-up. He probably feared a block in the back call. It was very clear fom that angle. I did not see it until later. Did Herm explode? NO?

****in pussy
Hell, only the fans exploded. That blew my mind. Not one player or coach did anything.

PastorMikH
09-10-2006, 11:59 PM
Did Herm explode? NO?

****in pussy


No he didn't. He should have, but he didn't. He should have been all over the ref on that but I never saw it.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 12:02 AM
I misread the poll. Sorry. KMBC 9 sports had video fom the back side. Kennison let-up. He probably feared a block in the back call.


Actually, I just looked at the video on Laz's thread and it looked to me like Kennison loaded up and went for Geathers but whiffed. Probably watched Warfield and Bartee too much.

greg63
09-11-2006, 12:02 AM
No he didn't. He should have, but he didn't. He should have been all over the ref on that but I never saw it.

DV would have; he'd have blown a gasket.(sp)

Boyceofsummer
09-11-2006, 12:02 AM
Palmer, a class act..........yada, yada, yada. If this guy re-injures his leg this season I will consider it justice.

Guru
09-11-2006, 12:03 AM
DV would have; he'd have blown a gasket.(sp)
But of course, Trent was his goldenboy.

DanT
09-11-2006, 12:03 AM
I'd like to hear the opinions of those who voted No after seeing this pic...

(All (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=674) we gotta do is click on the underlined numbers that tell the # of votes to see who you are...)

Seriously, how, after seeing this pic could someone call this anything BUT illegal?

Although that picture is not from a good angle to establish how far apart the heads of Geathers and Green are, it does definitively show that Trent Green wasn't even on the ground when Geathers was in the process of hitting him. If you're not on the ground, you are not sliding and a non-sliding QB is as eligible to get hit the way that Geathers hit Green as any other ball carrier would be.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 12:04 AM
DV would have; he'd have blown a gasket.(sp)


I don't know about DV, but I do know if that had been an OU QB Stoops would have ripped the ref's head off.

KcMizzou
09-11-2006, 12:04 AM
But of course, Trent was his goldenboy.Remember when he wanted that Viking in training camp "shot in the head"?

Hell, Vermiel might have done it himself this time.

Guru
09-11-2006, 12:06 AM
Although that picture is not from a good angle to establish how far apart the heads of Geathers and Green are, it does definitively show that Trent Green wasn't even on the ground when Geathers was in the process of hitting him. If you're not on the ground, you are not sliding and a non-sliding QB is as eligible to get hit the way that Geathers hit Green as any other ball carrier would be.
OMG!!!!!

The action of sliding. He is clearly performing that action in that pic.

Joe Seahawk
09-11-2006, 12:08 AM
Legal but unfortunate hit IMO.. No cheap shot..

Mr. Flopnuts
09-11-2006, 12:11 AM
Legal but unfortunate hit IMO.. No cheap shot..



How'd you feel about the Hasslebeck hit? I heard they were similar, and the broadcasters on that game went off about the Green hit. All of that true? I don't think it was an illegal hit, but I do think it was definately an attempted cheap shot. He was goin awful low head first. If Kennison hadn't pushed him he would've surely been flagged.

Bugeater
09-11-2006, 12:13 AM
Although that picture is not from a good angle to establish how far apart the heads of Geathers and Green are, it does definitively show that Trent Green wasn't even on the ground when Geathers was in the process of hitting him. If you're not on the ground, you are not sliding and a non-sliding QB is as eligible to get hit the way that Geathers hit Green as any other ball carrier would be.
I'm no referee, but I'm fairly certain once a QB starts into a slide he's protected.

huskerdooz
09-11-2006, 12:15 AM
Although that picture is not from a good angle to establish how far apart the heads of Geathers and Green are, it does definitively show that Trent Green wasn't even on the ground when Geathers was in the process of hitting him. If you're not on the ground, you are not sliding and a non-sliding QB is as eligible to get hit the way that Geathers hit Green as any other ball carrier would be.

I disagree, the very act of going into a slide is in essence giving him self up and he is then off limits. If the refs are going to mark the ball down at the point that the QB starts his slide, and they do, then it is at that point that hitting the QB is off limits.

DanT
09-11-2006, 12:17 AM
OMG!!!!!

The action of sliding. He is clearly performing that action in that pic.

Arrowhead does not have artificial turf anymore, the field is wet and yet, somehow, a sliding QB leaves no slide marks behind? He's not clearly performing the action of sliding. He's clearly performing the action of about to get LIT UP for not sliding. I have zero doubt as to how I would feel if that were Carson Palmer or any other opposing QB trying to eke out more yards. If it's considered sliding to be in a sliding position without having touched the ground, then QBs could get all kinds of easy yards by flying through the air in a "hook slide" position.

Joe Seahawk
09-11-2006, 12:18 AM
How'd you feel about the Hasslebeck hit? I heard they were similar, and the broadcasters on that game went off about the Green hit. All of that true? I don't think it was an illegal hit, but I do think it was definately an attempted cheap shot. He was goin awful low head first. If Kennison hadn't pushed him he would've surely been flagged.
Which one? Hass got cheap shotted twice today..;)

The Dude Abides
09-11-2006, 12:18 AM
Cheap shot, dirty shot, no room for interpretation.

Joe Seahawk
09-11-2006, 12:21 AM
It sure is nice to have a solid left tackle to protect.. :rolleyes:

ASHWORTH!!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Vaporhawk/ashworth.gif

Guru
09-11-2006, 12:21 AM
It sure is nice to have a solid left tackle to protect.. :rolleyes:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Vaporhawk/ashworth.gif
:shake:

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 12:24 AM
Although that picture is not from a good angle to establish how far apart the heads of Geathers and Green are, it does definitively show that Trent Green wasn't even on the ground when Geathers was in the process of hitting him. If you're not on the ground, you are not sliding and a non-sliding QB is as eligible to get hit the way that Geathers hit Green as any other ball carrier would be.


Dan I respect that you took time to post. I am currently trying to find the actual NFL rules regarding QB slides.


Anyone know where I might find a complete rule book? NFL.com only has basics and I have found NOTHING in it about QBs sliding.

Joe Seahawk
09-11-2006, 12:29 AM
Dan I respect that you took time to post. I am currently trying to find the actual NFL rules regarding QB slides.


Anyone know where I might find a complete rule book? NFL.com only has basics and I have found NOTHING in it about QBs sliding.

In a nutshell when they slide, once they are down they are not supposed to be hit and their forward progress is stopped..

DanT
09-11-2006, 12:29 AM
Dan I respect that you took time to post. I am currently trying to find the actual NFL rules regarding QB slides.


Anyone know where I might find a complete rule book? NFL.com only has basics and I have found NOTHING in it about QBs sliding.

I'm trying to do the same thing and am finding nothing on the internet so far. The NFL.COM site has a "digest of rules", but it doesn't seem to have anything on the "slide rule". I might stop by the library or a bookstore tomorrow to see if they have a hardcopy of the official rulebook.

I believe we have some high school refs on the board. It'll be interesting to hear what they know about the rule.

I do not have any particular knowledge of what the NFL rule is. It can certainly be the case that my notion of when a slide is taking place is wrong and that Trent Green is considered to be sliding by the letter of the NFL rulebook even though he has yet to touch the ground.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 12:33 AM
I'm trying to do the same thing and am finding nothing on the internet so far. The NFL.COM site has a "digest of rules", but it doesn't seem to have anything on the "slide rule". I might stop by the library or a bookstore tomorrow to see if they have a hardcopy of the official rulebook.

I believe we have some high school refs on the board. It'll be interesting to hear what they know about the rule.

I do not have any particular knowledge of what the NFL rule is. It can certainly be the case that my notion of when a slide is taking place is wrong and that Trent Green is considered to be sliding by the letter of the NFL rulebook even though he has yet to touch the ground.


Actually, on the note that Trent had not touched the ground, from the pic, it appears that though his right foot is out in front of him, he left is dragging the ground.


As for the lack of rules on NFL.com, I would imagine that the NFL doesn't want the average fan to be to smart on the rules or they might really see how poor some of the officiating is.:)

meStevo
09-11-2006, 12:45 AM
It sucked and they've thrown flags for less, but because of the contact with a KC player before the hit causing a 'blocked into' situation to be possible, I don't think a flag was warranted. You can debate the ability of the our player to change his momentum all you want, but that was the perception and surely the only reason the flag wasn't thrown.

To me that picture looks like a Bengal on the edge of a pool, and someone just kicked him in the ass and he is trying not to fall in.

mcan
09-11-2006, 12:48 AM
A quarterback (to the best of my knowledge) is marked down where he BEGINS his slide. He is not allowed forward progress, and the ball is spotted where the BALL is when his feet start to slide forward.


I'd highly recommend watching the hit again though. There is no question at all that he is in the process of sliding, and according to the rules, he is already down. It should have definately gotten a flag, regardless of Kennison's block. Looking at the replay, it's clear that Geathers lowers his shoulder to make sure he hit him, rather than go over the top of the DEFENSELESS, hook sliding, QB. I don't think that Geathers could have stopped completely, and he probably would have hit Trent pretty hard, or at least stepped on him just from momentum, but when Trent started to slide, he lowered his shoulder for a kill shot.

Definately a personal foul, and I'd say it's a borderline "cheap" shot. Hard to say on that. It's an aggressive game, and in a split second, it's hard to lay off when you've decided that you're going to lite somebody up. However, I think it was REALLY classless to STRUT away from a man who is laying, unconscious, on the field.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 12:53 AM
A quarterback (to the best of my knowledge) is marked down where he BEGINS his slide. He is not allowed forward progress, and the ball is spotted where the BALL is when his feet start to slide forward.




This is what I thought the Rule said but I cannot find in in print anywhere - I can't find ANYTHING AT ALL regarding a QB sliding to avoid the hit on the net.

Bugeater
09-11-2006, 12:57 AM
This is what I thought the Rule said but I cannot find in in print anywhere - I can't find ANYTHING AT ALL regarding a QB sliding to avoid the hit on the net.
I found this, but it's not exactly an "official" source.

http://www.jaguars.com/story/4763.asp

Mike from Moberly, MO: Please explain the NFL quarterback hook-slide rule. I thought quarterbacks had to be touched after a hook-slide to be “downed by contact.”

Vic: When a quarterback slides to the ground feet-first, he is, in effect, tackling himself. He is surrendering and you better not touch him, as Deke Cooper made the mistake of doing to Tommy Maddox on Sunday. The ball is spotted where it was positioned when the quarterback first contacted the ground in his slide. The rule is meant to provide a form of protection to quarterbacks in the open field. If he goes head-first, however, that protection doesn't exist.

JohnnyV13
09-11-2006, 12:59 AM
Its a cheap shot.

WHen a qb slides, he's giving himself up and its difficult to protect himself. Geathers didn't even try to avoid him, he just plowed into trent with his shoulder. Sure Kennison hit him and had the angle, but geathers didn't lose his feet. Geathers simply was looking to hit the qb.

BigRock
09-11-2006, 01:01 AM
Peter King said on NBC that the Chiefs were going to protest the fact that no flag was thrown, and John Clayton says the Bengals will argue that Geathers was pushed by Kennison. If that's their position, then even the Bengals don't think it was a legal hit. They're just going to say it wasn't done intentionally.

Guru
09-11-2006, 01:02 AM
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/football/nfl/carolina_panthers/15349615.htm

mcan
09-11-2006, 01:12 AM
1. Trents arm is behind him (bracing his fall), because he's sliding. If he were expecting to get hit, he would have put his hand in front of him to brace himself for the hit. He is completely defenseless, and this is the exact reason why hits like this have been made illegal.

2. Geathers knee is down, and his toe is digging into the turf. He is DIVING forward. This is because he was running at Trent with one thing on his mind... "KILL SHOT." When Trent started to slide, instead of attempting to let up, he actually LOWERED HIS BODY LEVEL to mirror Trent's.

He absolutely meant to hit a defenseless player as hard as he could.

But, I will give him the benifit of the doubt and say that in a split second, it's difficult to turn off the switch. I'll even go one further and say that Geathers probably didn't realize that Trent was defenseless. But, the rules don't ask guys who jump offsides if they did it on purpose before they penalize you.

DanT
09-11-2006, 01:22 AM
Actually, on the note that Trent had not touched the ground, from the pic, it appears that though his right foot is out in front of him, he left is dragging the ground.


As for the lack of rules on NFL.com, I would imagine that the NFL doesn't want the average fan to be to smart on the rules or they might really see how poor some of the officiating is.:)

I agree that his right foot is out in front of him. But I couldn't say from the picture that his right foot is sliding. That is, I can't tell whether the non-sole part of the back of his shoe has begun to make a swiping motion through the turf. In that regard, it's telling that there aren't any skid marks. As for his left shoe, I can't tell whether it has been dragged yet or not. My best guess is that Green hasn't yet slided on the ground with any part of his body other than, perhaps, the feet.

My recollection of how the forward progress is marked on QB slides is that the ball is spotted whereever it was when the QB makes substantial contact with the ground with his lower leg, his butt or some other part of his body other than the feet.

mcan
09-11-2006, 01:24 AM
http://www.jdnews.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=35951&Section=Sports
Hit not intentional: Fox said he doesn't feel Lions safety Kenoy Kennedy was intentionally trying to hurt Delhomme even though he took a shot at him while Delhomme was sliding. Under NFL rules, defensive plays cannot hit a quarterback once he begins his slide.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?postid=67482
Sliding by a QB is a different deal as the ball is dead where he begins his slide and he can't be hit. A lot of times you'll see him get hit a little by a player that was in the process of attempting a tackle but it is usually incidental stuff. The ball is dead, though, on each play.

DanT
09-11-2006, 01:35 AM
Thanks for the post, mcan. The question seems to come down to where has a slide begun. I would guess, but I do not know, that officials say that a slide has begun when the player has made contact with the ground with something other than the sole of his shoe. That is, it's possible for a player to be "in the process of sliding" without having yet begun a slide, just as it's possible to be in the process of punting the ball (e.g. dropping the ball toward the foot) without a punt having yet been performed by the foot upon the ball.

DanT
09-11-2006, 01:39 AM
In the photo that PastorMikH posted, Green is in the process of sliding (i.e. he is the posture of a player who is launching himself toward the ground to make a slide), but I do not see any clear evidence that he has yet to make the contact with the ground that defines where the slide has begun for purposes of spotting the ball and helping decide whether a foul was committed.

Guru
09-11-2006, 01:40 AM
I can't beleive how far we have to go to defend the fact that this was an illegal hit. Any other stadium in the league that day probably gets it called easily. We got a screwy ref crew. So far, with the exception of Randall "effing" Cross, the media even think this was a dirty hit.

CoMoChief
09-11-2006, 01:42 AM
Cheap shot...no, Illegal...yes.

To be fair, Gaethers was going at full speed and it's hard to stop momentum and unfortunately it's the nature of the game that when the QB (especially a non-mobile one) runs out of the pocket, every defensive players eyes light up and flash to wherever the QB is running. The game is played so fast sometimes it's hard to slow down.

Having that said it was an illegal hit and you should be able to tell whether or not a QB is going to slide or dive. Really a QB only dives head first if it is anywhere near the goaline. The shot was illegal and he should be fined for it and the refs should be fined for having their heads up their asses. However it wasnt a cheap shot. If Roy Williams' shot was illegal, this one sure as hell was.

mcan
09-11-2006, 01:43 AM
Thanks for the post, mcan. The question seems to come down to where has a slide begun. I would guess, but I do not know, that officials say that a slide has begun when the player has made contact with the ground with something other than the sole of his shoe. That is, it's possible for a player to be "in the process of sliding" without having yet begun a slide, just as it's possible to be in the process of punting the ball (e.g. dropping the ball toward the foot) without a punt having yet been performed by the foot upon the ball.


I guess from the "letter of the law" point of view, a case could be made that Trent is sliding but hasn't started his slide yet...

But the rule is there to protect players who are defenseless from getting SMASHED. And no matter how you slice it, Trent isn't even trying to shield himself from the blow. He's SLIDING, and doesn't expect to get hit. That's why is arm is underneath him, instead of in front of him.

He's not bracing himself for a hit at all... :(

DanT
09-11-2006, 01:52 AM
That's a great point, mcan, about the arm. I hadn't noticed that before. Geathers might well be in for a fine for making an illegal hit under the "see what you're hitting" principle. Even though you're not down when the palm of your hand is touching the ground, I could easily see the NFL argue that a defender who is looking at what he is hitting should be able to react in a non-aggressive manner toward a rushing QB who is in the process of sliding and who has his "free arm" (i.e. his non-ball-carrying arm) breaking his fall, instead of protecting his torso.

jAZ
09-11-2006, 02:17 AM
The only illegal action on the play was the block in the back by Kennison(?) on Geather that launched him into Green.

Bwana
09-11-2006, 04:40 AM
The only illegal action on the play was the block in the back by Kennison(?) on Geather that launched him into Green.
:shake: Thanks for your input, now back to the DC board.

Guru
09-11-2006, 05:24 AM
:shake: Thanks for your input, now back to the DC board.
Took the words right out of my mouth there.

memyselfI
09-11-2006, 05:34 AM
It was ugly as hell but it was prolly a legal hit. Trent slid late. He'll never do that again.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 05:59 AM
Probably should have gotten a flag, but it wasn't blatant IMO.

StcChief
09-11-2006, 06:09 AM
A foul. imagine if that was one of the golden boys...

The Manning's
Tom Brady


No yards either.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-11-2006, 06:10 AM
#1) Kennison's "block" had no effect on that play
#2) Linemen know, *know*, not to go after the quarterback's head
#3) Trent went down to hook slide, and Geathers was looking for a "Kill shot" as Brian Waters said after the game.

Factor all these things together, and it was clearly a cheap shot. Of course, he'll probably get some dumbass nickname from it just like that HGH addled f*ck in San Diego.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 06:15 AM
Helmet to helmet contact is not illegal once the QB tucks the ball and starts running. He becomes RB at that point and is no longer protected in that regard.

The only infraction was hitting the QB when the QB slides, and the timing of the Geathers leaving his feet makes me think it was pretty close.

I still think it probably should have been a flag, and agree it would have been if it were one of the golden boys.

greg63
09-11-2006, 06:19 AM
Helmet to helmet contact is not illegal once the QB tucks the ball and starts running. He becomes RB at that point and is no longer protected in that regard.

The only infraction was hitting the QB when the QB slides, and the timing of the Geathers leaving his feet makes me think it was pretty close.

I still think it probably should have been a flag, and agree it would have been if it were one of the golden boys.
Yup, had it been Jared Allen laying out Palmer like that he would have left the game early.

Deberg_1990
09-11-2006, 06:25 AM
.

Definately a personal foul, and I'd say it's a borderline "cheap" shot. Hard to say on that. It's an aggressive game, and in a split second, it's hard to lay off when you've decided that you're going to lite somebody up. However, I think it was REALLY classless to STRUT away from a man who is laying, unconscious, on the field.

I mentioned it before, but later on in the game Palmer went scrambling and 2 Chiefs defenders could have layed him out good. It was to their credit and their classiness that they didnt and held up. Palmer even dove head first if i remember right?? I could even hear the anticipation in the crowd wanting them to light Palmer up. Geathers knew EXACTLY what he was doing and is a liar. No amount of afterthought spin will convince me otherwise. Hes a POS as far as im concerned.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 06:40 AM
Why does it not surprise me the meme and jAZ would have almost identical views?

Malcor
09-11-2006, 07:02 AM
So, tell me. What was Geathers reaction to the play? First he went after the football which was loose. Fine. How about after that?

Did he look back in concern for the player he hit who was motionless on the ground? Did he defensively raises his hands to say I didn't mean to the way a lot of players will when the do something close to illegal? Or did he celebrate his big hit?

stevieray
09-11-2006, 07:03 AM
What about the second Bengal that hit Trent when he was already down?

Garcia Bronco
09-11-2006, 07:16 AM
It was not a legal hit, but it was not a cheap shot either. Green started to slide a hair late, but all would have perhaps been better had EK employed a better block, hindsight is 20/20, when Geathers was still in front of him.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 07:32 AM
Here's an interesting pic I found or the play on GoChiefs' pics thread (thanks GoChiefs)....


Couple of things to notice here...

1) Kennison is already passing by Geathers' and his legs are still driving towards Green.

2) Green is CLEARLY sliding and Geathers' feet are both planted on the turn at this point.

3) Look at Geather's facemask, the ONLY way he could see Green's face is if he is looking through one of the air vents on the top of his helmet. Now, both players' momentum kept this from technically being helmet to helmet BUT it sure looks like he was trying to spear Green from this pic

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=61321&stc=1



I'd like to bump this pic since some may be too lazy to dig through the thread and it adds some interesting perspective on the play.

Garcia Bronco
09-11-2006, 07:36 AM
Although that picture is not from a good angle to establish how far apart the heads of Geathers and Green are, it does definitively show that Trent Green wasn't even on the ground when Geathers was in the process of hitting him. If you're not on the ground, you are not sliding and a non-sliding QB is as eligible to get hit the way that Geathers hit Green as any other ball carrier would be.

Once the QB starts to silde he has given himself up and the play is over

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 07:38 AM
Geesh, if a Donkey fan is coming in here agreeing that the hit was illegal, YOU KNOW IT WAS CLEARLY ILLEGAL!


:p


So GC, you're licking your chops at the thought of Huard starting aren't you?

NaptownChief
09-11-2006, 07:38 AM
I don't think it was intentionally dirty but definitely should have been a flag....Had that been the NFL's herpes infected cover boy every offical on the field would have tossed their flag.

Aries Walker
09-11-2006, 07:43 AM
From seeing that pic, the best Geathers can argue is that Kennison's momentum pushed him into Green. I don't buy that, though - I think after that picture, Geathers would have had to push off with his left leg to get to Green and, considering Green is clearly sliding and essentially knee-down in that pic, it was a cheap shot.

Garcia Bronco
09-11-2006, 08:24 AM
Geesh, if a Donkey fan is coming in here agreeing that the hit was illegal, YOU KNOW IT WAS CLEARLY ILLEGAL!


:p


So GC, you're licking your chops at the thought of Huard starting aren't you?
No...I want you guys at your absolute best when we play you....that's the only way to get better and test the team. I like Green....he's a player, it was an unfortunate set of circumstances. The real question is will Plummer survive the game....he was running for his life yesterday too.

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 08:52 AM
I misread the poll. Sorry. KMBC 9 sports had video fom the back side. Kennison let-up. He probably feared a block in the back call. It was very clear from that angle. I did not see it until later. Did Herm explode? NO?

****in pussy


In some small bit of defense to Herm, I found this on KCChiefs site today...

Q: What did you think about that hit on Green?

EDWARDS: “Helmet to helmet and that’s always tough. Officials will have to look at it on tape and we’ve been advised not to comment on officials calls. I’m not going into he said or what they should have done.”




I think he is trying to be politically correct, but he knows helmet to helmet is illegal and he still mentions it but in a way that might slip under the radar as far as getting fined or a barrage of yellow flags for the rest of the season.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 08:56 AM
I think he is trying to be politically correct, but he knows helmet to helmet is illegal and he still mentions it but in a way that might slip under the radar as far as getting fined or a barrage of yellow flags for the rest of the season.Helmet to helmet is only illegal when it's the QB, and the minute he brings the ball down and starts running, it's perfectly legal to hit helmet to helmet.

The only infraction on that play was hitting a sliding QB.

Boise_Chief
09-11-2006, 09:26 AM
My take:

Illegal hit: The hit was after the slide started, I'd expect a flag on any defender on any team. Was it close? Yeah but they throw that flag 95% of the time. But frankly who cares that's insult to injury.

Let's go to intent.

Dirty: Immediately after this pic He continues to tuck his head in and his shoulder down right up to the moment of impact. He intended to wreck Trent and he did.

It would have still been a flag but been not dirty and possibly incedental if he would have shown any movement at all of trying to avoid contact. At the speed this played out it may have been the same result but it wouldn't have been a dirty hit. In real time and slow motion there is no indication that he ever attempted to let up or avoid contact.

Illegal, dirty, and unfortunate.

Malcor
09-11-2006, 09:47 AM
Helmet to helmet is only illegal when it's the QB, and the minute he brings the ball down and starts running, it's perfectly legal to hit helmet to helmet.

The only infraction on that play was hitting a sliding QB.

Not true...

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8(g) of the Official NFL Playing Rules:

" ... using any part of a player's helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass ...)."

Mr. Laz
09-11-2006, 10:07 AM
illegal - he hit a Quarterback in slide feet first mode ..... meaning Green was declaring himself down as soon as the slide starts. That's why the refs always mark the ball down where the QB slide started.


and


cheap - Geathers was clearly bending his knees and going low before contact in anticipation of Green sliding.





btw - Kennison barely touched him ...... all this "he was pushed ..." is a load of hogwash.

ct
09-11-2006, 10:18 AM
I voted Yes, based upon my perceived intent. I do NOT think it was illegal, strictly looking at the rules. Trent simply did not slide early enough.

Appears to me, trying my best to view the situation w/out the Homer goggles, that Geathers was gonna take his ass out no matter what. I realize QBs are fair game when they're scrambling, but if Trent doesn't slide, then Geathers is taking out his knees.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 10:23 AM
Not true...

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8(g) of the Official NFL Playing Rules:

" ... using any part of a player's helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass ...)."Players make helmet to helmet contact a dozen times in every game. Leading with the helmet(spearing) is one thing, simply making helmet to helmet contact is not considered a penalty.

The head of officiating has discussed this very topic on the NFL Network. He said as soon as a QB puts the ball down and runs with it, he's going to get the same consideration as any other player in that regard. He said you'll never see it called in that situation unless it's a clear spear. They'll only call H to H on defensless receivers, or if it's done to a QB in the course of a change of possession (INT or fumble).

Malcor
09-11-2006, 10:33 AM
I agree, except that the moment the QB begins a slide, he becomes defenseless. And the rule, as written, would apply. But I can't find any real language on the slide rules, so I could be wrong. But since you aren't even suppose to touch them...

kcfan88
09-11-2006, 10:33 AM
Geesh, if a Donkey fan is coming in here agreeing that the hit was illegal, YOU KNOW IT WAS CLEARLY ILLEGAL!


:p


So GC, you're licking your chops at the thought of Huard starting aren't you?


See post #105 pastor,he states that it wasn't an illegal hit! and then #107, the donkey fan is waffleing! Trent was in the process of sliding, and Geathers will smoke a turd in hell for that shot!!!!

irishjayhawk
09-11-2006, 10:52 AM
Sorry but if you look at the slow motion replays Kennison barely touches Geathers.

Mr. Laz
09-11-2006, 10:57 AM
I voted Yes, based upon my perceived intent. I do NOT think it was illegal, strictly looking at the rules. Trent simply did not slide early enough.

Appears to me, trying my best to view the situation w/out the Homer goggles, that Geathers was gonna take his ass out no matter what. I realize QBs are fair game when they're scrambling, but if Trent doesn't slide, then Geathers is taking out his knees.

if Trent didn't slide early enough then why did Geathers go low?


i mean evidently Green slide early enough for Geathers to know where he was going ........ if the tackler knows enough to go for the hit 18 inches above the ground then the QB slide early enough.


Geathers knew where Green was going and he took him out ..... simple.



one of our Olineman should of repaid the favor

bogie
09-11-2006, 11:05 AM
It was a cheap shot! He knew Green was going down and he nailed him. His intentions were to hurt Green and he made that decision after he knew Green was sliding. I know, I know, it's football. But DAMB! I haven't read the thread yet. Does anyone have an update on Green?

alpha_omega
09-11-2006, 11:20 AM
Looks like...
illegal and cheap both!

tk13
09-11-2006, 11:28 AM
I'd have to agree, seeing him say that whole "Kennison pushed me" line is a bunch of garbage. I don't know where they got that from, that's just a cop out.

On ESPN a few minutes ago, both Merrill Hoge and Sean Salisbury said they thought it was a legal hit.

Easy 6
09-11-2006, 11:31 AM
That hit was flat out cheap , Harrison's shot on Trent had better excuses.I just cant believe 20 some % on here DONT feel it was illegal. The pic makes it plain as day.Thats not homerism , just fact. I WANTED TO PUKE when i read Geathers statement of " concern".The beengals came lookin' for revenge and he took it , bottom line, What goes around , comes around buddy!!!!!

PastorMikH
09-11-2006, 11:33 AM
That hit was flat out cheap , Harrison's shot on Trent had better excuses.I just cant believe 20 some % on here DONT feel it was illegal. The pic makes it plain as day.Thats not homerism , just fact. I WANTED TO PUKE when i read Geathers statement of " concern".The beengals came lookin' for revenge and he took it , bottom line, What goes around , comes around buddy!!!!!



Well, if that's the way you feel....











Welcome to the Board!!:thumb::)

Iowanian
09-11-2006, 11:35 AM
It was a cheap shot.

Gather's should be impaled on a frozen turd pulled from the Ohio river.

I wish horrible social diseases on the Bengal players....and gout...of the testicles

Mr. Laz
09-11-2006, 11:37 AM
I just cant believe 20 some % on here DONT feel it was illegal.
here's that 20% in all their glory


No [ 52 ] 29.05%

bloomer88, Bob Dole, Boyceofsummer, Braincase, Chief Chief, chief52, chris, chubychecker, DaFace, DanT, Dave Lane, donkhater, Florida_Bronco, FourFingerFist, gh4chiefs, jAZ, Joe Seahawk, kc1977, King_Chief_Fan, Lin Elliot, memyselfI, meStevo, Mr. Kotter, MYKCCHIEFS, Nati Ice, Pitt Gorilla, RedandGold, Scorp, StcChief, UTChief, whoman69, Midway Chief

ct
09-11-2006, 11:42 AM
if Trent didn't slide early enough then why did Geathers go low?


i mean evidently Green slide early enough for Geathers to know where he was going ........ if the tackler knows enough to go for the hit 18 inches above the ground then the QB slide early enough.


Geathers knew where Green was going and he took him out ..... simple.



one of our Olineman should of repaid the favor

we definitely agree there

Illegal? No. Excessive cheap shot? Yes. Just a part of the game? Absolutely, happens every week.

EMT35
09-11-2006, 11:47 AM
That was pure and simple a cheap shot/late hit! Did they call a penalty? Of all teams that would pull something like that, you would not think that the Bungles would after what Pit did to them last year.... however, Marvin Lewis was in Baltimore, you know that thuggish team with the murderer! I am a Broncos fan...I hate the chiefs, and hope to see you guys lose every game you play (well maybe not to that Oakland team) Anyways, I respect your team, and your fans because you guys are very knowledgeable and a class act. I hate to see this crap happen! I wish you guys had D. Thomas still around, he could of sacked Palmer 5 times after that... then twisted his knee in half as retaliation! Here is to Trent being back healthy after your bye! There is no point to him coming back before that, we will still hand it to you. However, I would prefer us to take our annual ass whipping at Arrowhead from him, not Huard.

My comment about Derrick Thomas is made with the most respect. He is in my opinion the 2nd greatest pass rusher behind LT ever. I still have nightmares of him harrassing Elway 2 weeks every year.

The Bungles karma will catch up with them, preferably in terms of Geathers being paralyzed by a cheap shot this week!
I apoligize for my ruthless comments, but beyond the game.... the players are people! There is no need to attempt destruction of a players health to win games.... it is already dangerous enough without this.

Bob Dole
09-11-2006, 11:51 AM
here's that 20% in all their glory


No [ 52 ] 29.05%

bloomer88, Bob Dole, Boyceofsummer, Braincase, Chief Chief, chief52, chris, chubychecker, DaFace, DanT, Dave Lane, donkhater, Florida_Bronco, FourFingerFist, gh4chiefs, jAZ, Joe Seahawk, kc1977, King_Chief_Fan, Lin Elliot, memyselfI, meStevo, Mr. Kotter, MYKCCHIEFS, Nati Ice, Pitt Gorilla, RedandGold, Scorp, StcChief, UTChief, whoman69, Midway Chief

Bob Dole has already stated that he read the question incorrectly before being fully awake. Bob Dole read "Was the hit legal?"

Bob Dole's comments in the original "**** YOU RANDY CROSS" thread should make it pretty clear that Bob Dole is not a member of the 20% that thought it was within the rules.

unlurking
09-11-2006, 11:52 AM
Well, I've read through this whole damn thing, and to be honest, I just don't know. I DO know, that as a homer with a lot of liquor in his system, I could not watch it yesterday through unbiased eyes, and have not seen any replays today (the picture IMO helps, but actual footage is much better).

It seems there is difficulty in finding the exact language on the rule, so that doesn't help. Does his hand/butt/etc. have to be down?

Also, doesn't a defender have ONE step to hit a QB after he releases a pass, as that is a minimum requirement to change trajectory? I would think that that should apply here as well. I don't think there is anyway Geathers could have avoided him, but I do think he could have let up a bit and lessened the impact.

I clearly think it was a cheap shot, but I honestly am not sure about the legality of it. That's why I'm taking the GAZ option.

I will agree that had this been a more popular QB/team, there would have been a flag. At the same time, with the way the NFL keeps putting QBs in dresses, for consistency there should have been a flag.

RedandGold
09-11-2006, 11:52 AM
here's that 20% in all their glory


No [ 52 ] 29.05%

bloomer88, Bob Dole, Boyceofsummer, Braincase, Chief Chief, chief52, chris, chubychecker, DaFace, DanT, Dave Lane, donkhater, Florida_Bronco, FourFingerFist, gh4chiefs, jAZ, Joe Seahawk, kc1977, King_Chief_Fan, Lin Elliot, memyselfI, meStevo, Mr. Kotter, MYKCCHIEFS, Nati Ice, Pitt Gorilla, RedandGold, Scorp, StcChief, UTChief, whoman69, Midway Chief

I still stand by my opinion that it wasn't an "illegal" hit from a purely textbook interpretation.

Was it cheap and unnecessary? Yes!!!!

Easy 6
09-11-2006, 11:52 AM
Hey, thanks for the welcome PastorMike. That is the way I feel.I realize everyone's entitled to their opinions , but even the FOX sports article on the home page says it was cheap. Atleast the majority here seem to agree.

Coach
09-11-2006, 11:58 AM
I think what bothered me was the taunting from Geathers after the play. If there was no flag for a late hit, then why was there no flag for the taunting?

And it should have been a flag for unnecessary roughness, and unsportsmanlike conduct as well.

EMT35
09-11-2006, 12:00 PM
I can't believe that they did not throw a flag! Every time I have seen a QB slide and there is contact they throw the flag. I think you guys are correct though... had that of been a team with a primadonna sp? QB, that would of been a flag.... actually had it been a Manning... it would of been an ejection