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Wa-Z
09-11-2006, 12:14 PM
I've seen that being mentioned in a few threads and I think it's obviously time to. But I keep asking my self if Herm, Solari and co. are the ones that should do it.

When Herm was with the Jets, they were never a premier team. He just took the reigns of Parcells. They went to the playoffs in '02 with a 9-7 record because of a weak division, and in '04 they were a Wild-Card team...

Mecca
09-11-2006, 12:17 PM
They'll never really rebuild as long as Carl is here. His style has always been to sign enough veteran FA's to win 6 or 7 games even in the bad years. People make jokes about filling the stadium but he does care about that and doesn't wanna go completely young and have a 4-12 year.

Archie F. Swin
09-11-2006, 12:30 PM
Rebuild? Christ...three quarters of this team is solid...what's with you people?!!!!

Yesterday we found out what happens when your O-line is average at best. If you can't make it happen at the line of scrimmage, you can't make it happen.

Gawd almighty!!!

All you mutherfukcers can send me your season tickets...

Mecca
09-11-2006, 12:32 PM
Rebuild? Christ...three quarters of this team is solid...what's with you people?!!!!

Yesterday we found out what happens when your O-line is average at best. If you can't make it happen at the line of scrimmage, you can't make it happen.

Gawd almighty!!!

All you mutherfukcers can send me your season tickets...

So you don't see the overall age of the team eh?

ChiefsCountry
09-11-2006, 12:32 PM
Wow it keeps getting more idiots on here. I dont blame them at all for not blowing a team up heck look at our team now its basically set up for the future with the free agents filling wholes. Our defense is filled with young players, heck by next season we could be seeing most of our lineup with players we have drafted since 2003. And our offense is slowly doing the same.

Simplex3
09-11-2006, 12:34 PM
Rebuild? Christ...three quarters of this team is solid...what's with you people?!!!!

Yesterday we found out what happens when your O-line is average at best. If you can't make it happen at the line of scrimmage, you can't make it happen.

Gawd almighty!!!

All you mutherfukcers can send me your season tickets...
This team is good in some places, but most of those places are old. I'm sorry, but the joy ride is coming to an end, as evidenced by our OL yesterday.

Wa-Z
09-11-2006, 12:35 PM
Rebuild? Christ...three quarters of this team is solid...what's with you people?!!!!

Yesterday we found out what happens when your O-line is average at best. If you can't make it happen at the line of scrimmage, you can't make it happen.

Gawd almighty!!!

All you mutherfukcers can send me your season tickets...

Average? That's being generous. They were horrible. How do you expect this line to get better?? Roaf?...No. Cinncinatti's D-line isn't even one of the top 10 lines and they slaughtered us.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2006, 12:38 PM
We won't be rebuilding until next year. This year we are a just below average football team...heh

Mecca
09-11-2006, 12:44 PM
Average? That's being generous. They were horrible. How do you expect this line to get better?? Roaf?...No. Cinncinatti's D-line isn't even one of the top 10 lines and they slaughtered us.

And that's why this could be an ugly year, Cincys defense isn't good and they made us look bad.

keg in kc
09-11-2006, 12:49 PM
Herm took over for Al Groh, not Parcells. Two years prior to Edwards they were 8-8 and 9-7, so it's not like we're talking about a good team. Jets fans talk like he killed their long storied franchise, but we're talking about the Jets, for Christ's sakes. They have a long, proud history of suck.

And it was one game. There's 15 more.

Archie F. Swin
09-11-2006, 12:51 PM
Average? That's being generous. They were horrible.


I say average based on the past efforts of Shields, Waters and Wiegmann...they deserve respect

Mecca
09-11-2006, 12:53 PM
Wiegmann looked like complete shit yesterday.....average DT's bowled him over numerous times.

Sometimes when good players start getting old they fall off the face of the map, remember when the Raiders were good and old a few years ago and they all showed their age together?

keg in kc
09-11-2006, 12:57 PM
Center's play is going to suffer if the tackles continue to suck. He won't have guards there to help him with Tackles that outweigh him by 40-50 pounds.

Woodrow Call
09-11-2006, 01:04 PM
Herm has coached one game. He has an patchwork OL and D that is improving give the man a damn chance. This season is not over.

IMO Herm is the perfect person to lead the rebuilding if it happens. The best young talent is on the defensive side of the ball and that is his specialty. I think it will be easier to rebuild with a dominate D and a conservative LJ led offense(for example Bears, Ravens).

It is far from hopeless. At worst this team resembles DV's first year and Herm can build it back up just like DV did.

Mecca
09-11-2006, 01:11 PM
Herm has coached one game. He has an patchwork OL and D that is improving give the man a damn chance. This season is not over.

IMO Herm is the perfect person to lead the rebuilding if it happens. The best young talent is on the defensive side of the ball and that is his specialty. I think it will be easier to rebuild with a dominate D and a conservative LJ led offense(for example Bears, Ravens).

It is far from hopeless. At worst this team resembles DV's first year and Herm can build it back up just like DV did.

But will the Chiefs management wanna rebuild? From what I've seen with Carls history he'd much rather put a bandaid on it and go patchwork and win 7-8 games.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 01:34 PM
I'm not sure we really need to rebuild.

We have maybe 6 starters that could be old/retired at any minute:
Law
Surtain
Green
Shields
Weigmann
Kennison

So over the course of the next year or two, we can't replace those 6 guys? A couple first round picks and a couple big name FA signings and we're well on our way.

Sure it's going to be tough to replace a QB, but teams don't rebuild every time it happens. And we may have that guy in Croyle anyway.

Archie F. Swin
09-11-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm not sure we really need to rebuild.

We have maybe 6 starters that could be old/retired at any minute:
Law
Surtain
Green
Shields
Weigmann
Kennison

So over the course of the next year or two, we can't replace those 6 guys? A couple first round picks and a couple big name FA signings and we're well on our way.

Sure it's going to be tough to replace a QB, but teams don't rebuild every time it happens. And we may have that guy in Croyle anyway.

my thoughts exactly

dirk digler
09-11-2006, 01:43 PM
I'm not sure we really need to rebuild.

We have maybe 6 starters that could be old/retired at any minute:
Law
Surtain
Green
Shields
Weigmann
Kennison

So over the course of the next year or two, we can't replace those 6 guys? A couple first round picks and a couple big name FA signings and we're well on our way.

Sure it's going to be tough to replace a QB, but teams don't rebuild every time it happens. And we may have that guy in Croyle anyway.

I agree with your list except for Surtain. He just turned 30 in June so I wouldn't consider him old

Offensively this team is pretty old but we are pretty young on the D side.

jiveturkey
09-11-2006, 01:49 PM
I'm not sure we really need to rebuild.

We have maybe 6 starters that could be old/retired at any minute:
Law
Surtain
Green
Shields
Weigmann
Kennison

So over the course of the next year or two, we can't replace those 6 guys? A couple first round picks and a couple big name FA signings and we're well on our way.

Sure it's going to be tough to replace a QB, but teams don't rebuild every time it happens. And we may have that guy in Croyle anyway.
Dunn should be added to that list eventhough he's not a starter.

To build a chamionship team we will likely need an upgrade at LT, move Turley to RT. This could mean starters in 4 of the OLine positions.

We might need two WR's if Parker can't step up this year thus movin him to the slot. Webb is a possibility.

If you just look at the offense you will see that some major movement could be right around the corner. One of the young OLinemen needs to step up this year if at all possible.

Chiefnj
09-11-2006, 01:52 PM
Rebuilding is official. I heard the Chiefs are changing the kickoff music to Barbara Streisand's The Way We Were.

Memories
Light the corners of my mind
Misty watercolor memories
Of the way we were...

jspchief
09-11-2006, 01:54 PM
I agree with your list except for Surtain. He just turned 30 in June so I wouldn't consider him old

Offensively this team is pretty old but we are pretty young on the D side.Yea, any number of those guys could play a few more years. Obviously, Shields is looming.

Point is, for every old guy that is probably in his last two years of the game, I can name 2 guys that are young and coming into their own.

We've replaced almost our entire defense, with only a few guys that are on the backside of their careers.

The offense is going to see some bumps, but if we can get success from a few draft picks, and spend in FA, it shouldn't have to be a mass exodus.

Otter
09-11-2006, 01:58 PM
Memories
Light the corners of my mind
Misty watercolor memories
Of the way we were...

Yeah, if Joe Montana wouldn't have gotten knocked out of the game who knows what could have happened that year.

dirk digler
09-11-2006, 02:00 PM
Yea, any number of those guys could play a few more years. Obviously, Shields is looming.

Point is, for every old guy that is probably in his last two years of the game, I can name 2 guys that are young and coming into their own.

We've replaced almost our entire defense, with only a few guys that are on the backside of their careers.

The offense is going to see some bumps, but if we can get success from a few draft picks, and spend in FA, it shouldn't have to be a mass exodus.

I agree. IMO this team in the coming years especially next they will need at least 1 if not 2 starting tackles, 1 starting guard, 1 big time WR, and at least 1 if not 2 NFL calibar DT.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 02:00 PM
By the way, can someone explain the appeal of rebuilding?

I get the feeling some of you would rather have a couple really bad years than a couple of mediocre years. You realize that even if it affords us a few good draft picks, it's still several years of bad football usually followed by several years of mediocre football?

Otter
09-11-2006, 02:05 PM
By the way, can someone explain the appeal of rebuilding?

Lack of success from the alternative methods?

Mecca
09-11-2006, 02:09 PM
By the way, can someone explain the appeal of rebuilding?

I get the feeling some of you would rather have a couple really bad years than a couple of mediocre years. You realize that even if it affords us a few good draft picks, it's still several years of bad football usually followed by several years of mediocre football?

I'd rather pick 3rd than 15th if I'm playing for what I'm going to be in 3 years.....But no you shouldn't pick top 5 more than once or twice if you do your young players in your rebuilding process aren't developing.

ChiefsCountry
09-11-2006, 02:11 PM
Looking at our roster, positions we need rebuilding at our WR and LT. Which I beleive will be our picks this next season. CB is another. The rest it looks like we are set.

jiveturkey
09-11-2006, 02:12 PM
By the way, can someone explain the appeal of rebuilding?

I get the feeling some of you would rather have a couple really bad years than a couple of mediocre years. You realize that even if it affords us a few good draft picks, it's still several years of bad football usually followed by several years of mediocre football?
I don't support a full rebuild, a quick one would allow us to make use of the young defense that we've put together.

There could be a lot of holes in a short amount of time though and that will look like a rebuild on the offensive side.

1 WR at least (could be Webb)
1 blocking TE
1 FB possibly
1 OT maybe two (could be Svitek or Sampson)
1 OG
1 OC (could be Niswager (sp))
1 QB (Croyle will likely be #2 next year so we'll need a new #3)

We won't have to replace everyone in one offseason but to able compete we will need to replace them with quality.

ChiefsCountry
09-11-2006, 02:18 PM
I don't support a full rebuild, a quick one would allow us to make use of the young defense that we've put together.

There could be a lot of holes in a short amount of time though and that will look like a rebuild on the offensive side.

1 WR at least (could be Webb)
1 blocking TE
1 FB possibly
1 OT maybe two (could be Svitek or Sampson)
1 OG
1 OC (could be Niswager (sp))
1 QB (Croyle will likely be #2 next year so we'll need a new #3)

We won't have to replace everyone in one offseason but to able compete we will need to replace them with quality.

Here is the offense we could be looking at soon:
WR - Parker
LT - First Round Pick Next Year
LG - Water
C - Niswagner however you spell the kids name from LSU
RG - Black (Its his natural position and he could be actually good at it) or Stallings
RT - Svitek
TE - Gonzo (hes a lock for the next 5 years more than likely)
WR - Draft pick or sign someone
QB - Croyle
FB - Cruz
RB - LJ

Its not a complete rebuild job since we are gradually doing already ie replacing TRich, Priest, and Morton with Cruz, LJ, and Parker.

Mecca
09-11-2006, 02:22 PM
Here is the offense we could be looking at soon:
WR - Parker
LT - First Round Pick Next Year
LG - Water
C - Niswagner however you spell the kids name from LSU
RG - Black (Its his natural position and he could be actually good at it) or Stallings
RT - Svitek
TE - Gonzo (hes a lock for the next 5 years more than likely)
WR - Draft pick or sign someone
QB - Croyle
FB - Cruz
RB - LJ

Its not a complete rebuild job since we are gradually doing already ie replacing TRich, Priest, and Morton with Cruz, LJ, and Parker.

Asking an undrafted player and a 6th round pick to be starting Olineman and be good at it is asking alot.......Also that doesn't address that we need new DT's and our corners are old....

ChiefsCountry
09-11-2006, 02:25 PM
Asking an undrafted player and a 6th round pick to be starting Olineman and be good at it is asking alot.......Also that doesn't address that we need new DT's and our corners are old....

Well we have two lineman right now that were undrafted players, and we have a track record for lineman. LT is the big money first round player.

Mecca
09-11-2006, 02:30 PM
Well we have two lineman right now that were undrafted players, and we have a track record for lineman. LT is the big money first round player.

I don't really count Wiegman as an undrafted player for us since we signed him as a FA from the Bears. But ok at Guard/Center sometimes you can develop a 2nd day undrafted player into a starter. I don't think that of Tackle on either side, it takes legit talent to play on the edge in this league. I don't want anymore Jordan Black 2nd day experiments at either tackle. Let's get studs to protect the edges it pays off in the end.

jspchief
09-11-2006, 02:36 PM
Asking an undrafted player and a 6th round pick to be starting Olineman and be good at it is asking alot.......Also that doesn't address that we need new DT's and our corners are old....You can't have all pros at every position.

Every year every team has to rely on a rookie or two, a couple of unheralded guys, and a few low draft picks that are coming into their own.

We're going to have to have a Stallings, Niswanger, or Svitek work out. We're going to have to hope that Marcus Maxey or Jeff Webb grow into the role.

We're not going to get another Roaf, Shields, and Dunn. There's only so many draft picks, so much money, and so much talent. It's just a fact of the NFL.

You can't just choose to suck one year for the good picks, then go back to being a winner. It's not like a switch you flip. And every year we play 4-12, we may get draft picks, we also get FAs that don't want to come play for a stinker.

Mecca
09-11-2006, 02:40 PM
If the Chiefs cut all the guys who make a chunk of change after this year that don't contribute added in with the cap increasing they'll be able to do somethings. Maybe not this year but when the hits come off the next year they'll have serious space.

The Jaguars gutted their old team and came back with lots of young players and a ton of cap room to play with. That's how they got to where they are now....

Frazod
09-11-2006, 02:56 PM
Rebuilding is official. I heard the Chiefs are changing the kickoff music to Barbara Streisand's The Way We Were.

Memories
Light the corners of my mind
Misty watercolor memories
Of the way we were...

I've got this goddamn song stuck in my head now. I hate you. :mad: