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tk13
09-12-2006, 03:19 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15496059.htm

Geathers should pay for late hit
JASON WHITLOCK
Kansas City Star

Sometimes itís important to say the obvious: Football is an incredibly dangerous and cruel game.

We saw evidence of that Sunday afternoon when a vicious hit knocked Trent Green cold and sapped what little fun was left in the Chiefsí disappointing loss to Cincinnati at Arrowhead Stadium.

As the Chiefsí medical staff surrounded Green and eventually carried him off the field strapped to a gurney, it was difficult to see the point of playing football. The game seemed barbaric, something left over from Caesarís rule.

I turned to my Star colleagues Joe Posnanski and Jeff Flanagan and wondered: ďHow do they continue to play?Ē

After the game, Tony Gonzalez told reporters it took him about a play to get his mind back into the game.

When youíre young and healthy, you never think itís going to happen to you. Or itís never going to be so bad that a doctor canít fix it. As Green lay motionless on the field, I feared he might have suffered a serious neck injury. I wondered whether the $50 million contract he signed years ago was worth it.

We complain about the money athletes are paid. When you consider the risks football players take in practice and in games, you can legitimately argue theyíre underpaid.

Thereís no amount of money that could properly compensate Daryl Stingley, the receiver who was paralyzed years ago by a hit from Jack Tatum.

On Monday, there was significant debate about the legality and ethics of the hit Robert Geathers laid on Green. Geathers claimed he was pushed by Eddie Kennison. Members of the national media pretty much contended that Geathers did little wrong.

Huh?

I get that Geathers regrets his role in the hit and Greenís concussion. I donít believe Geathers is a dirty player or a bad person. He made a mistake, an error that should cost him.

He should be fined heavily. Iíd like to see him suspended for one game.

The NFL has a strict philosophy about protecting its quarterbacks. There are specific rules in place to protect QBs. You canít hit them in the helmet. You canít hit them if they slide feetfirst. NFL owners have so much money tied up in their quarterbacks that theyíd really prefer that they not get hit at all.

Green is likely to miss a game or two or three because of Geathersí mistake. Greenís absence will severely damage Kansas Cityís chances of getting off to a successful start.

Shouldnít the Bengals be damaged?

Again, I donít think Geathers is a dirty player. The league just needs to send a message so that other players will think twice before sailing into a sliding quarterback. Yes, the overwhelming majority of players realize you have to be careful when going after the quarterback.

But itís important to reaffirm this message, especially when a franchise loses its quarterback in the third quarter of the first game.

The other thing Iíd do is discipline the officiating crew. Iíd suspend for one game the two or three refs who were in position to flag Geathers for the hit. Itís inexcusable that a flag wasnít thrown on the play.

Iíve seen players flagged for hitting a quarterbackís helmet with a hand. Yet Geathers drew no flag for leading with his shoulder into Greenís head. Kennisonís push didnít help the situation, but Geathers was clearly being too aggressive.

The Dude Abides
09-12-2006, 04:08 AM
He speaks truth and common sense for once.

Guru
09-12-2006, 04:11 AM
2 days in a row too.

ChiefsfaninPA
09-12-2006, 05:38 AM
Damn Shitlock is making some sense. Can't wait to see what the NFL does about this.

OldTownChief
09-12-2006, 05:51 AM
He speaks truth and common sense for once.

Someone on here says something along these lines about every article he writes.

Bob Dole
09-12-2006, 06:55 AM
JW is spot-on.

Since it kind of got lost in the Randy Cross thread, Bob Dole is going to repeat it.

The RULE doesn't address the intent. The RULE addresses hitting a QB who has gone into a slide. It doesn't have "outs" written into it. The RULE says the QB is off-limits. The RULE is there to prevent EXACTLY what happened from happening. The RULE is THE ENTIRE REASON WHY Trent was in a vulnerable position and now in the hospital. If not for the RULE, Trent would have either gone OOB or been prepared for the hit. And the official's claim that he didn't flag it because of Kennison is complete and total bullshit after the fact.

ANY time you see a QB hit while sliding, the official's first reaction should be to reach for the hanky. You can pick it up after the fact if it is determined that the defender was pushed.

There wasn't any confusion whether Trent was sliding because when the ball came out they immediately ruled he was down and it was not a fumble, per the RULE. The fact that they didn't enforce the rest of the RULE and tack on another 15 yards borders on criminal.

The RULE was not enforced. Fine Geathers and suspend the officials.

Bwana
09-12-2006, 06:58 AM
Wow, good read.

PRIEST
09-12-2006, 07:10 AM
This is the Chiefs ,We do not & will not get the calls. Mr Hunt had to have did something!!!have been a KC fan for 17 years never seen a team get the no call as much as KC.Still a fan.

Carl & Herm the worm need to go,KC needs new blood ,not the good ol boy network

Bob Dole
09-12-2006, 07:24 AM
From Flanagan's morning update (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15495997.htm):

Geathers said after the game that Greenís previous scrambles led him to believe Green wasnít going to slide.

Perhaps that's because he was too off-balance to properly slide on the first one and was tackled from behind on the second.

It still doesn't change the RULE.

Demonpenz
09-12-2006, 07:34 AM
i thought it warrented an ejection. You can't tee off nfl qb's in today's nfl. They have made that a point year in and year out. I think thats wrong and football is made to be physical but thats the standard the nfl has sent.

TrebMaxx
09-12-2006, 08:43 AM
If they aren't going to throw the flag when the rule is broken they need to get rid of the rule. I bet that if Green had been going in ready to take the hit with his shoulder like a normal ball carrier would do, he most likely would not of been hurt. By going to the ground sliding feet first you are leaving yourself somewhat vulnerable. I also think that the QB might also relax a bit, thinking ahh sliding feet first, they can't touch me. It is the ref's job to make sure a flag flies if a QB is hit while in such a open and vulnerable state.

ChiefsCountry
09-12-2006, 08:49 AM
If they aren't going to throw the flag when the rule is broken they need to get rid of the rule. I bet that if Green had been going in ready to take the hit with his shoulder like a normal ball carrier would do, he most likely would not of been hurt. By going to the ground sliding feet first you are leaving yourself somewhat vulnerable. I also think that the QB might also relax a bit, thinking ahh sliding feet first, they can't touch me. It is the ref's job to make sure a flag flies if a QB is hit while in such a open and vulnerable state.

QB sliding means stays away, its not being in a vulnerable state or not, its a general rule from pee wee up to the NFL, a QB slides you stay away since he is already given up.

greg63
09-12-2006, 08:51 AM
2 days in a row too.

Ok; where's the real Fatlock? What have they done with him?

Brock
09-12-2006, 08:54 AM
If it had been Favre, or God forbid, one of the royal twins, there would have surely been a flag and probably an ejection.

dtebbe
09-12-2006, 09:03 AM
If it had been Favre, or God forbid, one of the royal twins, there would have surely been a flag and probably an ejection.

Or heaven forbid, Tom "Goldenboy" Brady. The refs would have stopped the game right there and given the victory to the Patriots.

I guarantee you if it was Brady, Manning(s), Farve, or even Palmer the national media would be screaming about what a cheap shot it was and how they should be fined. All he had to do is put an arm down or roll slightly to his right to pull up. He decided to make the QB pay, and he did, and so far has got away scott free.

It PISSES ME OFF that some pass rushers will hit the QB in the head with 3 fingers and get roughing called, but you have a QB COMPLETELY give himself up on a hook slide and a defender wipes his ass out and it's a "clean hit".

BULLS-H-I-T!

DT

StcChief
09-12-2006, 09:09 AM
Let's see how the NFL enforces their rule.

League office Credibility on the line for Roger Goodall.

first official issue. Let's see how he plays it.

morphius
09-12-2006, 09:17 AM
Even his point about being pushed is a bit mute when you look at how he hit the QB. He didn't let up, but instead thrusted his shoulder and elbow into him to make the hit has hard as possible. The fact that he admits that he didn't think he was going to slide even makes him more guilty.

alpha_omega
09-12-2006, 09:33 AM
:thumb: Fatlock

Chiefs Pantalones
09-12-2006, 09:45 AM
If it were one of the Mannings, McNabb, or Brady Geathers would've been flagged almost instantly with no hesitation by the officials.

Bob Dole
09-12-2006, 09:46 AM
If it were one of the Mannings, McNabb, or Brady Geathers would've been flagged almost instantly with no hesitation by the officials.

Which is what SHOULD have happened regardless of the name on the back of the jersey.

It's the ****ing RULE.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-12-2006, 09:48 AM
Which is what SHOULD have happened regardless of the name on the back of the jersey.

It's the ****ing RULE.

Tell that to them.

The officials would've hog tied and beat Geathers right there on the spot if it were Peyton...

PastorMikH
09-12-2006, 09:49 AM
With some of the other flags I saw thrown in games this weekend to protect QBs - some that looked like nothing more than a "Good Job" slap, the fact that Geathers taking out Green didn't draw a flag and the way the media as a whole is trying to contend that it was clean makes me thing that the NFL has a chip on it's shoulder against the Chiefs. We are clearely not in the "In" crowd around the NFL.

PastorMikH
09-12-2006, 09:51 AM
Did the subject of Green's hit come up last night with DV during the Raiders/Chargers game by chance?


I did notice in the first game there was a section where they were talking about how the league was trying to step up QB protection and showed various examples of that from sunday, yet they convieniently missed talking about the lack of a call with Green.

Sydd
09-12-2006, 09:52 AM
Just think about what would have happened if this had been on the other side of the ball. If a Chief laid out Palmer? The media would be calling for the players head.

It is crap that some players get the "A+" protection plan from the league, while the rest just get the base warranty.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 09:58 AM
Geathers should miss as many weeks as Green does.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 10:08 AM
Well, Geather's "I didn't think he was going to slide" defense kind of blows up the "he was shoved into Green against his will" defense being asserted on his behalf.

And the picture of him with his feet on the ground while Trent is clearly in his slide kind of blows up the 'he was already launched' defense being asserted for him.

My most favorable assessment? Geathers braced himself for the jack-up and either lowered his head or closed his eyes, and had NO IDEA whether Green was sliding or not. And that's not an excuse under the rules.

Raiderhader
09-12-2006, 10:19 AM
Geathers should miss as many weeks as Green does.



That is an outstanding form of punishment for this type of situation. Of course, the league would have to actually enforce it across the board.....

kepp
09-12-2006, 10:32 AM
Geathers should miss as many weeks as Green does.
Along with the paychecks that go along with those weeks.

I was getting so tired of the annoucers last night saying, "The NFL is really trying to protect QBs these days." ...every other breath.

Coach
09-12-2006, 11:01 AM
What bothered me was that there should have been a taunting penalty as well. That one is being left out as well.

kcfan88
09-12-2006, 11:15 AM
What bothered me was that there should have been a taunting penalty as well. That one is being left out as well.

When was the taunting? i didn't get to see the whole game?

Kerberos
09-12-2006, 11:26 AM
2 days in a row too.

I am confused about why he would have 2 great articles in two days in a row and not have the obligatory reference to why we should NOW pick up Jeff George while Green is out!

I don't know Bill, but something is afoot at the Circle K.

.

PastorMikH
09-12-2006, 11:35 AM
When was the taunting? i didn't get to see the whole game?



After the hit Geathers was strutting around like "I'm Bad! I'm the Man!" When he looked over, the look on his face was like "Oh well, you shouldn't have come into my house old man."

keg in kc
09-12-2006, 12:58 PM
Well, Geather's "I didn't think he was going to slide" defense kind of blows up the "he was shoved into Green against his will" defense being asserted on his behalf.

And the picture of him with his feet on the ground while Trent is clearly in his slide kind of blows up the 'he was already launched' defense being asserted for him.

My most favorable assessment? Geathers braced himself for the jack-up and either lowered his head or closed his eyes, and had NO IDEA whether Green was sliding or not. And that's not an excuse under the rules.And if he did go through with the hit thinking Green wasn't going to slide...then he was clearly going for Green's knees, because of the height of the hit.

I said it the day of the game, and I say it again now: he was going for a killshot. He intended to injure Green, he did, and he should pay for it.

Sully
09-12-2006, 01:06 PM
This is the Chiefs ,We do not & will not get the calls. Mr Hunt had to have did something!!!


His dad killed Kennedy.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 01:23 PM
Geathers should miss as many weeks as Green does.BRILLIANT!

Mr. Laz
09-12-2006, 01:52 PM
Geathers said after the game that Greenís previous scrambles led him to believe Green wasnít going to slide.
if Geathers didn't think Green was going to slide then why was he going so low????


you go low on a 230lbs running back ........ not a medium sized QB.



BS ......... he saw Green going to slide and he took his shot.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 01:58 PM
His dad killed Kennedy.

I'm sure the NFL execs really sit around going "hey let's think of ways to screw the Chiefs over." It's all a conspiracy as to why the Chiefs don't win championships. Has nothing to do with the fact that we can't draft and make stupid personel decisions it's all on the league.

Even though we are Chiefs fans and wear red that doesn't make Trent Green " off limits" you get a older slow QB running around the defenders eyes light up. He waited for to long to slide and that's what happened......football is a contact sport those things happen. The way some of you talk you'd think the QB's should all stand back there with skirts on with a flag hanging out of their pocket to grab.

Garcia Bronco
09-12-2006, 02:04 PM
if Geathers didn't think Green was going to slide then why was he going so low????


you go low on a 230lbs running back ........ not a medium sized QB.



BS ......... he saw Green going to slide and he took his shot.

Whishey Tango Foxtrot

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 02:19 PM
The way some of you talk you'd think the QB's should all stand back there with skirts on with a flag hanging out of their pocket to grab.
No, asshat. We talk as though Trent should get the same benefit of the rules that every other QB, and a clear reading of the rule itself, is afforded.
We can go round and round hypothetically about whether this rule or that rule takes the passion/wildness/violence out of the game. That doesn't matter when the rules are what they are and need to be applied evenly and fairly.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 02:25 PM
I said I thought it should have been flagged, and he'll likely get fined for it but I think the suspension talk is a bit much.

Mr. Laz
09-12-2006, 03:37 PM
Whishey Tango Foxtrot
what part didn't you understand?

GoHuge
09-12-2006, 03:55 PM
JW is spot-on.

Since it kind of got lost in the Randy Cross thread, Bob Dole is going to repeat it.

The RULE doesn't address the intent. The RULE addresses hitting a QB who has gone into a slide. It doesn't have "outs" written into it. The RULE says the QB is off-limits. The RULE is there to prevent EXACTLY what happened from happening. The RULE is THE ENTIRE REASON WHY Trent was in a vulnerable position and now in the hospital. If not for the RULE, Trent would have either gone OOB or been prepared for the hit. And the official's claim that he didn't flag it because of Kennison is complete and total bullshit after the fact.

ANY time you see a QB hit while sliding, the official's first reaction should be to reach for the hanky. You can pick it up after the fact if it is determined that the defender was pushed.

There wasn't any confusion whether Trent was sliding because when the ball came out they immediately ruled he was down and it was not a fumble, per the RULE. The fact that they didn't enforce the rest of the RULE and tack on another 15 yards borders on criminal.

The RULE was not enforced. Fine Geathers and suspend the officials.Exactly! Call one or the other and this shit about Kennison pushing him is just that....shit. He barely touched him. Geathers had every intention of laying the stick to Trent. He couldn't have been anymore down when he got whacked, his head was about a foot off the ground when contact was made. Was he supposed to be laying flat to be considered down and protected? And his excuse about being committed and flying through the air unable to control himself is stupid. Did they not see Wesley dive to keep from hitting Palmer? He was flying through the air and managed to avoid the cheap shot. Keep in mind this is the same Cincy team that was crying about getting cheated out of the playoffs when Palmer got rolled up on. ESPN and NFL Network was flooded all off season with his come back story and in his first game back the guy that helped inspire and encourage Palmer to grind out the rehab gets savagely drilled on a slide by one of Palmer's teammates. The national media made that into a big conspiracy and a "hated rivalry" when Palmer was hurt but becuase it was Trent Green it was a good no-call. It's insane, just as insane as everybody agreeing with Fatlock two days in a row. Myself included.

Logical
09-12-2006, 03:59 PM
Damn Shitlock is making some sense. Can't wait to see what the NFL does about this.

Personally I think Whitlock takes it too far, fine OK maybe, suspend no way in hell unless you suspend Kennison for a game for knocking Geathers into Trent.

Spicy McHaggis
09-12-2006, 04:00 PM
If it were one of the Mannings, McNabb, or Brady Geathers would've been flagged almost instantly with no hesitation by the officials.

Hell, the NFL execs would be holding a ****ing candlelight vigil right now.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 04:04 PM
Personally I think Whitlock takes it too far, fine OK maybe, suspend no way in hell unless you suspend Kennison for a game for knocking Geathers into Trent.
Yr&Id10t

Logical
09-12-2006, 04:06 PM
Yr&Id10tNo the homers around here are the idiots, clearly Geathers was knocked off balance and into Trent by Kennison it is shameful to me to see the way our fans cannot see the obvious.

Logical
09-12-2006, 04:09 PM
No the homers around here are the idiots, clearly Geathers was knocked off balance and into Trent by Kennison it is shameful to me to see the way our fans cannot see the obvious.

In fact Kennison should have been flagged first for an illegal block in the back.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 04:10 PM
No the homers around here are the idiots, clearly Geathers was knocked off balance and into Trent by Kennison it is shameful to me to see the way our fans cannot see the obvious.
I could pull 100 people at random from any venue you wish, heck I could pull 100 at random from Paul Brown stadium, and you'd only get 5 maybe to agree with you.

KcMizzou
09-12-2006, 04:12 PM
I imagine Logical cackling with maniacal glee every time fate takes a big sh*t on the Chiefs.

OnTheWarpath58
09-12-2006, 04:15 PM
I could pull 100 people at random from any venue you wish, heck I could pull 100 at random from Paul Brown stadium, and you'd only get 5 maybe to agree with you.

If that.

I find it interesting that people actually think Eddie "drove" Geathers into Trent.

Geathers was coming up the field. Kennison was coming from the sideline, perpendicular to Geathers.

EVEN IF EK made contact with Geathers, he would have redirected Geathers sideways, not "driving" him into Trent.

I guess people want to rewrite the laws of Physics......

Brock
09-12-2006, 04:17 PM
I imagine Logical cackling with maniacal glee every time fate takes a big sh*t on the Chiefs.

I imagine someone pulling the plug on him myself. RIP what used to be Logical.

Lzen
09-12-2006, 04:31 PM
I imagine someone pulling the plug on him myself. RIP what used to be Logical.

I think someone already pulled the plug on his brain a while ago.

Logical
09-12-2006, 04:36 PM
I think someone already pulled the plug on his brain a while ago.

I find it amusing the way people will turn themselves into assholes when a Chiefs fan has the temerity to be honest about what happened in a game. Brock I would expect it from but not you.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 04:38 PM
I find it amusing the way people will turn themselves into assholes when a Chiefs fan has the temerity to be honest about what happened in a game. Brock I would expect it from but not you.

Don't worry......I got ripped on for basically saying the same thing. Like I said before just because we are Chiefs fans and Trent Green is our QB doesn't make him off limits to get hit. It's unfortunate it happened but I don't see it as a dirty play and it's borderline fine anyone talking suspension is getting to laughable levels.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 04:40 PM
I find it amusing the way people will turn themselves into assholes when a Chiefs fan has the temerity to be honest about what happened in a game. Brock I would expect it from but not you.
FOS, righteously indignant, but FOS nonetheless.
You're 'being honest' about that play in the same way Taco was 'being honest' about the controlled demolition of the WTC by the US Govt.

Whomever can pull up GoChief's pic, showing;
1. Geather's feet planted,
2. Kennison sailing out of the picture, in no contact with Geathers, and
3. Green in full slide.

It'd be greatly appreciated.

keg in kc
09-12-2006, 04:41 PM
It's become apparent that Jim's the love-child of TJ and Proctor.

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 04:49 PM
Don't worry......I got ripped on for basically saying the same thing. Like I said before just because we are Chiefs fans and Trent Green is our QB doesn't make him off limits to get hit. It's unfortunate it happened but I don't see it as a dirty play and it's borderline fine anyone talking suspension is getting to laughable levels.

You and Logical get accused of not being fans and it has NOTHING to do with the hit on Trent Green. Incidentally, fans of OTHER TEAMS think it was a dirty hit...

Mecca
09-12-2006, 04:51 PM
You and Logical get accused of not being fans and it has NOTHING to do with the hit on Trent Green. Incidentally, fans of OTHER TEAMS think it was a dirty hit...

Really? I was reading the KFFL boards the day it happened and roughly 10% thought it was dirty. The majority of people I've talked to about or read post about don't think it was dirty.

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 04:56 PM
Really? I was reading the KFFL boards the day it happened and roughly 10% thought it was dirty. The majority of people I've talked to about or read post about don't think it was dirty.

Like I give a shit what the people on the KFFL board think.

The opposing fans here as well as the ones I talk to, by and large think it was dirty. As do several of the national talking heads.

Logical
09-12-2006, 04:59 PM
Like I give a shit what the people on the KFFL board think.

The opposing fans here as well as the ones I talk to, by and large think it was dirty. As do several of the national talking heads.Well soon the NFL will weigh in and we will no longer have any reason to debate it.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:00 PM
No the homers around here are the idiots, clearly Geathers was knocked off balance and into Trent by Kennison it is shameful to me to see the way our fans cannot see the obvious.I would expect as much from you. Somehow, being against popular opionion makes you morally superior. Great, I hope that smug feeling tucks you in all nice and snug at night. You are superior than the rest of us dolts, because you are smart enough to appreciate things that are a detriment to your "favorite" team.

WTF? dude? You are like, gonna be a fan of some other team now? That is the definiton of a "fair weather" fan. Go on, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Like, any of us real fans have any choice with which team we like.

:hmmm: Jaz thought it was a good hit
:hmmm: Meme thought it was a good hit
Vlad thinks it is a good hit.

Why am I not surprised? Bush lied and Wethers flied.

OnTheWarpath58
09-12-2006, 05:02 PM
The sad part about this is......

The NFL could fine Geathers $1,000,000 and suspend him for the rest of the year, but it doesn't bring Trent back any sooner.....

And seriously.....even if the league was to fine him, it's gonna be some pocket change.....< 25k

Not exactly punishment to a guy making 6-7 figures......

Mecca
09-12-2006, 05:02 PM
Like I give a shit what the people on the KFFL board think.

The opposing fans here as well as the ones I talk to, by and large think it was dirty. As do several of the national talking heads.

See there you go dismiss the people's opinions that don't support yours because that isn't what you want to hear. Really I'm already tired of talking about it being dirty or not. At most he'll get fined not suspended. He's not even a key player to their team he had 3 sacks the entire season last year he gets 2 against us....No matter what he's fined or what people think it's not going to make Trent Green play.

So basically people think I'm not a Chiefs fan and Logical isn't a Chiefs fan because we don't have Rosey colored glasses on? I'm sorry this is a bad football team there isn't a whole lot to be positive about with it. Yea that's it I'm not a fan I'm such a horrible fan for being realistic **** me for not being a homer.

Logical
09-12-2006, 05:03 PM
I would expect as much from you. Somehow, being against popular opionion makes you morally superior. Great, I hope that smug feeling tucks you in all nice and snug at night. You are superior than the rest of us dolts, because you are smart enough to appreciate things that are a detriment to your "favorite" team.

WTF? dude? You are like, gonna be a fan of some other team now? That is the definiton of a "fair weather" fan. Go on, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Like, any of us real fans have any choice with which team we like.

:hmmm: Jaz thought it was a good hit
:hmmm: Meme thought it was a good hit
Vlad thinks it is a good hit.

Why am I not surprised? Bush lied and Wethers flied.
I have never once said it was a good hit. I have said and I stand by it, that the hit was caused by an illegal block in the back by Kennison.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:03 PM
I imagine Logical cackling with maniacal glee every time fate takes a big sh*t on the Chiefs.He could always just root for his other favorite team.

dirk digler
09-12-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't where I read it but Kennison said he didn't touch Geathers. I think was in the KC Star.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:05 PM
I find it amusing the way people will turn themselves into assholes when a Chiefs fan has the temerity to be honest about what happened in a game. Brock I would expect it from but not you.I expect nothing but antagonism and cynicism from you. :rolleyes:

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:06 PM
Don't worry......I got ripped on for basically saying the same thing. Like I said before just because we are Chiefs fans and Trent Green is our QB doesn't make him off limits to get hit. It's unfortunate it happened but I don't see it as a dirty play and it's borderline fine anyone talking suspension is getting to laughable levels.I wish that Leinert gets his head bounced like that in his first game.

THen come back in here and talk to me.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 05:07 PM
I wish that Leinert gets his head bounced like that in his first game.

THen come back in here and talk to me.

Wishing injury upon people because you don't like me=class.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:08 PM
Well soon the NFL will weigh in and we will no longer have any reason to debate it.What's this? You shrinking from a debate? Naw.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:11 PM
Wishing injury upon people because you don't like me=class.I don't wish it, but, I am just trying to frame this in a way that you can understand.

Then you can come in here and call me a homer.

Logical
09-12-2006, 05:12 PM
What's this? You shrinking from a debate? Naw.

No, I just think once the NFL rules then the reason to debate it will gone.

KcMizzou
09-12-2006, 05:12 PM
Not being a homer isn't the problem. There are plenty of posters who can get very negative when the Chiefs stink it up. Laz, Baby Lee, Naptown, (among many others). People don't seem to get fed up with them.

Some just seem to revel in it. Hell, I'm surprised Jim hasn't broken a hip running to his keyboard after a sack or a fumble.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 05:12 PM
I don't wish it, but, I am just trying to frame this in a way that you can understand.

Then you can come in here and call me a homer.

It's fine I see your point......why is it people seem to not think I'm a fan of this team? Yes I'm a USC fan but I'm also a Chiefs fan you know.....

I ripped the hell out of USC when they weren't a good team. I look at it objectivly if the team is bad I can admit it and I won't fool myself into this positive "oh maybe we aren't that bad" kinda thinking.

Raiderhader
09-12-2006, 05:13 PM
I have never once said it was a good hit. I have said and I stand by it, that the hit was caused by an illegal block in the back by Kennison.


No, Jim, it wasn't.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:17 PM
It's fine I see your point......why is it people seem to not think I'm a fan of this team? Yes I'm a USC fan but I'm also a Chiefs fan you know.....

I ripped the hell out of USC when they weren't a good team. I look at it objectivly if the team is bad I can admit it and I won't fool myself into this positive "oh maybe we aren't that bad" kinda thinking.I think you are confusing objectivity with heart.

That play broke my fuggin heart.

Perhaps, the reason I used the Leinert example is, I just don't see your heart in this discussion. Perhaps it is with USC/Leinert, more than the Chiefs. NTTIAWWT, but, that is the reason I brought it up. Perhaps, with that hypothetical situation, you might be able to get why we are so fuggin pissed.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 05:24 PM
I think you are confusing objectivity with heart.

That play broke my fuggin heart.

Perhaps, the reason I used the Leinert example is, I just don't see your heart in this discussion. Perhaps it is with USC/Leinert, more than the Chiefs. NTTIAWWT, but, that is the reason I brought it up. Perhaps, with that hypothetical situation, you might be able to get why we are so fuggin pissed.

When it happened it was surreal to me because I was sitting here watching the game with my best friend, Trent had run I believe 2 of the 3 previous plays. He looked at me and said "He's gonna get hurt if he keeps doing that....." Not even a minute later........

We were having this debate about how he kept getting hit and I thought he was going to start throwing INT's because it happens when he gets rattled.....then he started running and well....

I was surprised the flag didn't come out just because it was a hit on the QB, see here's where people miss what I've said. Yes it was a vicious hit on a QB that probably warranted a flag. But it could have been worse the guy turned to hit him with his shoulder he could have put his helmet in Trent's face if he wanted to.

I feel for Trent that this happened to him because he's a good guy and the leader of the team. But it does happen sometimes, football is a violent game. Asking for the guy to be suspended and things like that is going to far in my view.

By the way anyone who posted threads about Pollard taking people out and talked about him being the headhunter we need and all that jazz really shouldn't comment on this because if you don't like when it happens to our team but want Pollard to take other teams guys out then you have a double standard....

Logical
09-12-2006, 05:34 PM
No, Jim, it wasn't.Yes Jamie it was.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:37 PM
By the way anyone who posted threads about Pollard taking people out and talked about him being the headhunter we need and all that jazz really shouldn't comment on this because if you don't like when it happens to our team but want Pollard to take other teams guys out then you have a double standard.Just Leinert, that's all. :p

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:39 PM
Yes Jamie it was.No, Jim, it wasn't.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 05:45 PM
By the way anyone who posted threads about Pollard taking people out and talked about him being the headhunter we need and all that jazz really shouldn't comment on this because if you don't like when it happens to our team but want Pollard to take other teams guys out then you have a double standard....
Man I miss so much.
When was everyone jazzed about Pollard's potential for spearing QBs in the hook slide?

Raiderhader
09-12-2006, 06:03 PM
Yes Jamie it was.



No, Jim, it wasn't.


Even IF EK's "shove" provided some momentum towards Green, it sure as hell did not cause Geathers to hunch down dropping his head and shoulder. Geathers was going for the hit regardless of what Kennison might or might not have done.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 06:11 PM
Yes Jamie it was.
I'm getting confused.
Is this a matter of metaphysical 'truth?'
Or is it a matter to debated until the NFL rules?

You see, Jim. No matter your estimation of your cognitive abilities, we don't live and breathe on the degree of certainty you assert on a matter.

Oh yeah, and we can't be shamed into seeing things the way you see them either.

MahiMike
09-12-2006, 06:17 PM
Yeah. I said at the time he should be fined $100K and suspended for 4 games. And then Tony says it wasn't a bad hit? WTH?

There's absolutely no way he was shoved into him. Bastard.

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 06:21 PM
No, Jim, it wasn't.


Even IF EK's "shove" provided some momentum towards Green, it sure as hell did not cause Geathers to hunch down dropping his head and shoulder. Geathers was going for the hit regardless of what Kennison might or might not have done.This is what I am talkin about.

Nobody ever talks about this fact. He could just as easily leaned, as much as possible, away from contact, even putting his hand out to soften the blow, but no, he lowers his shoulder becoming a battering ram into Green's head.

KcMizzou
09-12-2006, 06:28 PM
I think he fully intended to blast Green, and had an "Oh shit" moment afterwards. He was probably as surprised as anyone at the lack of a flag.

It was a split second decision and he screwed up. As others have said, I don't think he was intentionally trying to be dirty, but I do think it's obvious that it was an illeagal hit.

OnTheWarpath58
09-12-2006, 06:48 PM
I think he fully intended to blast Green, and had an "Oh shit" moment afterwards. He was probably as surprised as anyone at the lack of a flag.

As was #94 whos name escapes me and I'm too lazy to look up.

His hands immediately went up gesturing "what the **** did you do that for" and protesting to the ref all at the same time.....

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 07:11 PM
Man I miss so much.
When was everyone jazzed about Pollard's potential for spearing QBs in the hook slide?

Exactly.

Mecca acts as if Geathers' hit isn't against NFL rules. It clearly is.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 07:24 PM
Exactly.

Mecca acts as if Geathers' hit isn't against NFL rules. It clearly is.

I'm going to post what I watched John Clayton and Eric Allen say today.......

John Clayton on Mike and Mike frankly said it wasn't dirty. He said he had watched it numerous times on replay and he didn't feel it was dirty. Then he said that he felt Kennison did push him and that it was unfortunate that it caused an injury but he felt Geathers turned to try to get out of the way and it would have been much worse if Geathers was going out of his way to hit Green. Then Golic added on that you can't ask a man to change the direction he's moving once he's off his feet.....then all 3 of them agreed Trent waited to long to slide and that was why he got hit that way. Then Clayton finished by saying at most Geathers would get a fine and the Chiefs were going overboard with wanting a suspension he understands them standing up for their QB but it won't happen and it shouldn't.

Then later I watched Eric Allen basically say the exact same things about players not being able to change directions in the air and it being a violent game.........

What's this about everyone thinking it was dirty again?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-12-2006, 07:29 PM
I'm going to post what I watched John Clayton and Eric Allen say today.......

John Clayton on Mike and Mike frankly said it wasn't dirty. He said he had watched it numerous times on replay and he didn't feel it was dirty. Then he said that he felt Kennison did push him and that it was unfortunate that it caused an injury but he felt Geathers turned to try to get out of the way and it would have been much worse if Geathers was going out of his way to hit Green. Then Golic added on that you can't ask a man to change the direction he's moving once he's off his feet.....then all 3 of them agreed Trent waited to long to slide and that was why he got hit that way. Then Clayton finished by saying at most Geathers would get a fine and the Chiefs were going overboard with wanting a suspension he understands them standing up for their QB but it won't happen and it shouldn't.

Then later I watched Eric Allen basically say the exact same things about players not being able to change directions in the air and it being a violent game.........

What's this about everyone thinking it was dirty again?

Are you the biggest anti-Chiefs apologist on here, or am I missing something? That hit was dirty, and if it happened on Big Brother, Little Brother, or the Golden Child, Ron Mexico, those same three talking heads would have been absolutely apoplectic about the lack of a suspension.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 07:30 PM
I'm going to post what I watched John Clayton and Eric Allen say today.......

John Clayton on Mike and Mike frankly said it wasn't dirty. He said he had watched it numerous times on replay and he didn't feel it was dirty. Then he said that he felt Kennison did push him and that it was unfortunate that it caused an injury but he felt Geathers turned to try to get out of the way and it would have been much worse if Geathers was going out of his way to hit Green. Then Golic added on that you can't ask a man to change the direction he's moving once he's off his feet.....then all 3 of them agreed Trent waited to long to slide and that was why he got hit that way. Then Clayton finished by saying at most Geathers would get a fine and the Chiefs were going overboard with wanting a suspension he understands them standing up for their QB but it won't happen and it shouldn't.

Then later I watched Eric Allen basically say the exact same things about players not being able to change directions in the air and it being a violent game.........

What's this about everyone thinking it was dirty again?

Well heck, since John Clayton said it...it must be gospel. :rolleyes:

He lowered his shoulder just before the hit "purely by accident", right?









Retard. :shake:

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 07:31 PM
I'm going to post what I watched John Clayton and Eric Allen say today.......

John Clayton on Mike and Mike frankly said it wasn't dirty. He said he had watched it numerous times on replay and he didn't feel it was dirty. Then he said that he felt Kennison did push him and that it was unfortunate that it caused an injury but he felt Geathers turned to try to get out of the way and it would have been much worse if Geathers was going out of his way to hit Green. Then Golic added on that you can't ask a man to change the direction he's moving once he's off his feet.....then all 3 of them agreed Trent waited to long to slide and that was why he got hit that way. Then Clayton finished by saying at most Geathers would get a fine and the Chiefs were going overboard with wanting a suspension he understands them standing up for their QB but it won't happen and it shouldn't.

Then later I watched Eric Allen basically say the exact same things about players not being able to change directions in the air and it being a violent game.........

What's this about everyone thinking it was dirty again?

Who said EVERYONE thought it was dirty?

You sure are good at making absolute statements.

And whether or not it was dirty is beside the point. HITTING A QB IN A HOOK SLIDE IS AGAINST THE RULES.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 07:32 PM
What's this about everyone thinking it was dirty again?
You're the one with the dirty, dirty, dirty.
It was an infraction that wasn't flagged.
Fines and suspensions, if any, will arise from not having sufficient regard for the opposing QB in a vulnerable position protected by the rules, not for being some roid-rage Homonowski clone looking to do murder.
And it's not to say he's a bad person for not having enough regard, it's to say the we need penalties to demonstrate to others the importance of having sufficient regard.
Look at it as the difference between Murder One and Negligent Homicide.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 07:32 PM
Well heck, since John Clayton said it...it must be gospel. :rolleyes:

He lowered his shoulder just before the hit "purely by accident", right?









Retard. :shake:

You do know if he hadn't turned he'd have hit Green in the face with the top of his helmet right?

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 07:33 PM
Well heck, since John Clayton said it...it must be gospel. :rolleyes:

He lowered his shoulder just before the hit "purely by accident", right?

Retard. :shake:

Don't forget former Raider Eric Allen...

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 07:35 PM
Don't forget former Raider Eric Allen...

Oh, yea. Almost forgot about that "unbiased" source. ROFL

Mecca
09-12-2006, 07:35 PM
Ah so Eric Allen and John Clayton's opinions don't count either right......

You tell me "I don't care what people on KFFL think the national media think's it was dirty" I give you an example of how not everyone does so those guys don't count........that's a hell of a sidestep. But I forgot man you are it the authority you know more about playing defense and hitting people than a former pro bowl defender like Eric Allen.

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 07:36 PM
You're the one with the dirty, dirty, dirty.
It was an infraction that wasn't flagged.
Fines and suspensions, if any, will arise from not having sufficient regard for the opposing QB in a vulnerable position protected by the rules, not for being some roid-rage Homonowski clone looking to do murder.
And it's not to say he's a bad person for not having enough regard, it's to say the we need penalties to demonstrate to others the importance of having sufficient regard.
Look at it as the difference between Murder One and Negligent Homicide.

Football is a violent game. You're a pussy. Carson Palmer rules.

Logical
09-12-2006, 07:38 PM
Well heck, since John Clayton said it...it must be gospel. :rolleyes:

He lowered his shoulder just before the hit "purely by accident", right?









Retard. :shake:Actually others have been saying that pretty much everyone agreed all mecca is doing is pointing out that not everyone agrees. Nothing retarded about that.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 07:39 PM
Actually others have been saying that pretty much everyone agreed all mecca is doing is pointing out that not everyone agrees. Nothing retarded about that.

My opinion is wrong because it isn't the same as most of the Chiefs fan base..... :rolleyes:

Oh and htismaq knows more than John Clayton and more about playing defense than Eric Allen that is what I learned today.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 07:40 PM
You do know if he hadn't turned he'd have hit Green in the face with the top of his helmet right?

A. Horseshit.

B. He shouldn't have been going low to begin with.

C. He could have avoided the big hit by NOT lowering his shoulder like an effing thug.

D. ANY...HIT...ON...A...HOOK SLIDING....QB...IS...ILLEGAL. How freaking hard is that to understand?

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 07:40 PM
But I forgot man you are it the authority you know more about playing defense and hitting people than a former pro bowl defender like Eric Allen.
Oohhhh!! Appeal to Authority!!!
Can I play?

But I forgot man, you are the authority, you know more about the rules and the propriety of sanctions and penalties for breaking those rules in the NFL than GM for life CARL PETERSON.

Raiderhader
09-12-2006, 07:40 PM
Ah so Eric Allen and John Clayton's opinions don't count either right......



RIGHT! And you know why? Because they are WRONG. They are COMPLETELY ignoring the NFL rule book, just like you are.

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 07:42 PM
Ah so Eric Allen and John Clayton's opinions don't count either right......

You tell me "I don't care what people on KFFL think the national media think's it was dirty" I give you an example of how not everyone does so those guys don't count........that's a hell of a sidestep. But I forgot man you are it the authority you know more about playing defense and hitting people than a former pro bowl defender like Eric Allen.

There's no need for me to sidestep. My comments are right here in black and white. Here, let me help you:

You and Logical get accused of not being fans and it has NOTHING to do with the hit on Trent Green. Incidentally, fans of OTHER TEAMS think it was a dirty hit...

Like I give a shit what the people on the KFFL board think.

The opposing fans here as well as the ones I talk to, by and large think it was dirty. As do several of the national talking heads.

I have to assume that you misrepresented my quotes because you knew it wasn't germane to your argument. Either that or your so stupid that you don't know the difference between the word "several" and the word "all".

Raiderhader
09-12-2006, 07:43 PM
A. Horseshit.

B. He shouldn't have been going low to begin with.

C. He could have avoided the big hit by NOT lowering his shoulder like an effing thug.

D. ANY...HIT...ON...A...HOOK SLIDING....QB...IS...ILLEGAL. How freaking hard is that to understand?



This CANNOT be emphasized enough, since apparently some people are not aware of the frickin' rule.

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 07:46 PM
My opinion is wrong because it isn't the same as most of the Chiefs fan base..... :rolleyes:

Oh and htismaq knows more than John Clayton and more about playing defense than Eric Allen that is what I learned today.

Once again trying to make a moral absolute...I love how you get "knows more about playing defense than Eric Allen" out of my statement that he was a former Raider, like that's even REMOTELY close to what I said. I watched Rod Woodson on NFL Total Access tonight try to tell the other guys on the show that the Raiders aren't the worst team in football. Do I know more about defense than ROD WOODSON? Well, frankly the very thought is absurd. But do I think Rod Woodson is a Raider-lovin' homer? ABSOLUTELY.

Nobody cares that you think the hit was A-okay. It's that you felt the need (as you always do) to point out that ANYBODY that has a problem with it is a Chiefs-loving homer.

As was already pointed out, MANY unbiased observers thought it was a dirty hit. Do all of them? Nope. But then again, that wasn't the point.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 07:52 PM
Once again trying to make a moral absolute...

Nobody cares that you think the hit was A-okay. It's that you felt the need (as you always do) to point out that ANYBODY that has a problem with it is a Chiefs-loving homer.

As was already pointed out, MANY unbiased observers thought it was a dirty hit. Do all of them? Nope. But then again, that wasn't the point.
I suppose I fall under the Chiefs loving Homer category (or maybe the "non coke bottle lens eyglass wearing category") because after reviewing the hit both full speed and slow motion multiple times I come to the conclusion that the hit was not only dirty but intentional. Geathers should be fined and suspended and the officials who witnessed the incident and didn't immediately flag the infraction should likewise be disciplined by the League.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 07:55 PM
There's no need for me to sidestep. My comments are right here in black and white. Here, let me help you:





I have to assume that you misrepresented my quotes because you knew it wasn't germane to your argument. Either that or your so stupid that you don't know the difference between the word "several" and the word "all".

So let me get this right.....you tell me fans of other teams think it was dirty. I point out how that isn't exactly true so you completely change it to ones you know and and ones that post here.....changing the starting point essentially.

I give you some examples of some guys who don't agree with this view for the sake of showing I'm not the only person with this view it's rather split..

Then you finish that off by calling me stupid. So basically it is "people who post here think this, agree now or you are stupid along with Logical". That is all fine if you dont like my opinion of what happened but what I wanna know is if the NFL doesn't fine this guy am I gonna read a bunch of posts about the conspiracy of the NFL is out to get the Chiefs and how the Chiefs fans know more than the league office?

Like I said before just because Trent Green wears red and we are fans of that team does not make him off limits to get hit. I read countless upon countless posts before this game about taking out Palmers knee, injuring Carson Palmer and all of that jazz. Added in with the fact of wanting Bernard Pollard to decapitate recievers and loving having a headhunter in the secondary to get guys.....

Then you turn around and when that happens to Trent Green it is a mortal sin that he got injured and it has to be the most horrible thing ever and you are stupid if you disagree. There is a massive double standard about wanting to take out players on opposing teams then it happens to ours and people want the guy to be suspended fined game checks all sorts of ridiculous stuff.......

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 07:58 PM
Actually others have been saying that pretty much everyone agreed all mecca is doing is pointing out that not everyone agrees. Nothing retarded about that.

If "others" = Clayton and Allen, then WHO = "pretty much everyone else"? Seems to me 99% of the opinions on this board indicate at the very least an Illegal Hit (and correctly so per the rule) all the way up to intentional cheap shot. Please clarify.

Raiderhader
09-12-2006, 07:58 PM
So let me get this right.....you tell me fans of other teams think it was dirty. I point out how that isn't exactly true so you completely change it to ones you and and ones that post here.....changing the starting point essentially.




Dude, your reading comprehension blows balls.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 07:59 PM
If "others" = Clayton and Allen, then WHO = "pretty much everyone else"? Seems to me 99% of the opinions on this board indicate at the very least an Illegal Hit (and correctly so per the rule) all the way up to intentional cheap shot. Please clarify.

This is a Chiefs board.........he and I are talking about people not in the "Chiefs circle" as far as fans and with the team.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 08:00 PM
So let me get this right.....you tell me fans of other teams think it was dirty. I point out how that isn't exactly true so you completely change it to ones you know and and ones that post here.....changing the starting point essentially.

I give you some examples of some guys who don't agree with this view for the sake of showing I'm not the only person with this view it's rather split..

Then you finish that off by calling me stupid. So basically it is "people who post here think this, agree now or you are stupid along with Logical". That is all fine if you dont like my opinion of what happened but what I wanna know is if the NFL doesn't fine this guy am I gonna read a bunch of posts about the conspiracy of the NFL is out to get the Chiefs and how the Chiefs fans know more than the league office?

Like I said before just because Trent Green wears red and we are fans of that team does not make him off limits to get hit. I read countless upon countless posts before this game about taking out Palmers knee, injuring Carson Palmer and all of that jazz. Added in with the fact of wanting Bernard Pollard to decapitate recievers and loving having a headhunter in the secondary to get guys.....

Then you turn around and when that happens to Trent Green it is a mortal sin that he got injured and it has to be the most horrible thing ever and you are stupid if you disagree. There is a massive double standard about wanting to take out players on opposing teams then it happens to ours and people want the guy to be suspended fined game checks all sorts of ridiculous stuff.......

I don't think you get it. There is a difference between someone like Pollard making a hard LEGAL hit, and Geathers making an illegal hit on a hook sliding QB per the rule.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 08:02 PM
I have never once said it was a good hit. I have said and I stand by it, that the hit was caused by an illegal block in the back by Kennison.
I have yet to see any tape of Kennison even touching Geathers. Have you? I so please put it up here for all to see.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 08:02 PM
So let me get this right.....you tell me fans of other teams think it was dirty. I point out how that isn't exactly true so you completely change it to ones you know and and ones that post here.....changing the starting point essentially.

I give you some examples of some guys who don't agree with this view for the sake of showing I'm not the only person with this view it's rather split..

Then you finish that off by calling me stupid. So basically it is "people who post here think this, agree now or you are stupid along with Logical". That is all fine if you dont like my opinion of what happened but what I wanna know is if the NFL doesn't fine this guy am I gonna read a bunch of posts about the conspiracy of the NFL is out to get the Chiefs and how the Chiefs fans know more than the league office?

Like I said before just because Trent Green wears red and we are fans of that team does not make him off limits to get hit. I read countless upon countless posts before this game about taking out Palmers knee, injuring Carson Palmer and all of that jazz. Added in with the fact of wanting Bernard Pollard to decapitate recievers and loving having a headhunter in the secondary to get guys.....

Then you turn around and when that happens to Trent Green it is a mortal sin that he got injured and it has to be the most horrible thing ever and you are stupid if you disagree. There is a massive double standard about wanting to take out players on opposing teams then it happens to ours and people want the guy to be suspended fined game checks all sorts of ridiculous stuff.......
you tell me fans of other teams think it was dirty. I point out how that isn't exactly true
1. No one said EVERYONE thought it was dirty. If htis establishes that TWO fans of other teams think it was dirty, he proves his premise. fans, plural, not unanimous.
Then you turn around and when that happens to Trent Green it is a mortal sin that he got injured and it has to be the most horrible thing ever and you are stupid if you disagree.
2. No one said that Trent is immune from getting hit. He's immune UNDER THE RULES from getting hit when hook sliding. Nobody's rooting for Pollard hitting QBs in the hook slide, or horse collaring recievers, or punching players in the harry beanbag. Those things ARE AGAINST THE RULES, just like the hit on Green.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 08:03 PM
This is a Chiefs board.........he and I are talking about people not in the "Chiefs circle" as far as fans and with the team.

OK. Then you will have to prove to me that "nearly everybody" who isn't a Chiefs fan agrees with you. You stand a better chance of making a snowball in the nether regions.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 08:04 PM
I don't think you get it. There is a difference between someone like Pollard making a hard LEGAL hit, and Geathers making an illegal hit on a hook sliding QB per the rule.

And like I said there are people that feel Geathers was pushed by Kennison, Trent waited to long to slide letting Geathers get off his feet into his tackling motion beforehand. There are other mitigating factors. I fully expected it to be flagged but when he waited that long to get to the ground I knew he was going to get hit he waited till the absolute last second to slide.

Also the play looks much worse in slow motion, watch it in full speed it is bam-bam it's not like Green slides lays there and then the guy jumps on him.

htismaqe
09-12-2006, 08:05 PM
So let me get this right.....you tell me fans of other teams think it was dirty. I point out how that isn't exactly true so you completely change it to ones you know and and ones that post here.....changing the starting point essentially.

I give you some examples of some guys who don't agree with this view for the sake of showing I'm not the only person with this view it's rather split..

Then you finish that off by calling me stupid. So basically it is "people who post here think this, agree now or you are stupid along with Logical". That is all fine if you dont like my opinion of what happened but what I wanna know is if the NFL doesn't fine this guy am I gonna read a bunch of posts about the conspiracy of the NFL is out to get the Chiefs and how the Chiefs fans know more than the league office?

Like I said before just because Trent Green wears red and we are fans of that team does not make him off limits to get hit. I read countless upon countless posts before this game about taking out Palmers knee, injuring Carson Palmer and all of that jazz. Added in with the fact of wanting Bernard Pollard to decapitate recievers and loving having a headhunter in the secondary to get guys.....

Then you turn around and when that happens to Trent Green it is a mortal sin that he got injured and it has to be the most horrible thing ever and you are stupid if you disagree. There is a massive double standard about wanting to take out players on opposing teams then it happens to ours and people want the guy to be suspended fined game checks all sorts of ridiculous stuff.......

1) I didn't change a thing. I said from the very beginning that I knew of several non-Chiefs fans that thought it was dirty. I never said "all". I never said "most". I never said "99%". I said "several" and it's absolutely, unequivocally true that "several" unbiased observers think it was a dirty hit.

2) You didn't read ONE POST from me calling for a hit on Carson's knee. I did notice that you failed to acknowledge the people here that rebuffed them and called it vile.

3) Wanting Bernard Pollard to lay LEGAL HITS on WR's IN NO WAY equates to spearing a QB in a hook slide. You know it, I know it, everybody here knows it. Yet you continue to debase yourself by mentioning it.

4) I called you stupid because you deliberately misrepresented my statements, not because I disagree with your position on Geather's hit.

Baby Lee
09-12-2006, 08:06 PM
And like I said there are people that feel Geathers was pushed by Kennison, Trent waited to long to slide letting Geathers get off his feet into his tackling motion beforehand. There are other mitigating factors.

Unfortunately the immutable laws of physics contradict the whole premise of your account. Allow me to reconstruct this if I may for Miss Mecca as I've watched the footage a number of times.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 08:08 PM
And like I said there are people that feel Geathers was pushed by Kennison, Trent waited to long to slide letting Geathers get off his feet into his tackling motion beforehand. There are other mitigating factors. I fully expected it to be flagged but when he waited that long to get to the ground I knew he was going to get hit he waited till the absolute last second to slide.

Also the play looks much worse in slow motion, watch it in full speed it is bam-bam it's not like Green slides lays there and then the guy jumps on him.

My Gracious man. You truly don't get it. Geathers was going low from the beginning. That was wrong from the git go. THEN, he lowers his shoulder before hitting Green instead of landing on him with his flat body or with a bit of luck going over him. Either way he was wrong and his actions show intent.

DomerNKC
09-12-2006, 08:08 PM
Yes Jamie it was.damn it jim, im a doctor not a surgeon.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 08:28 PM
Mecca has adopted the annoying position of "Anti Chiefs" on several issues. He craves attention even if it is negative. Do any of you know anything about this guy? He posted on here a few weeks ago that he needs a good paying job but it would have to be within walking distance of his home as he doesn't have a car. Then he posted a pic of himself showing what appears to be a 1970's refugee with hair down to the middle of his back. (It could be re-worked into a really nice mullet). he stated he WOULD NOT cut his hair as the "man" was not going to keep him down. Phobia was even waffling on whether to hire him to carry bricks. Iowanian had a field day with him. The dude is about 25 years old with no education and has apparently been laying around in somebody else's apartment for the seven years since he got out of high school. Oh, yes, he is a fine upstanding citizen that we all should pay close attention to his every word. Somebody go find that thread. It was hilarious.

Mcgee24
09-12-2006, 08:28 PM
From a non chiefs bias point of view after seeing this play several times 2 things to me are fairly obvious

1. Geathers did not intentionally hit green as he was sliding. In fact Geathers was reacting to the run he droped the shoulder as if he expected green to keep running. There was definitly no intentional Helmet to Helmet collisions going on there.

2. Eddie Kennison Absoultly dives at Geathers and was by no means a tap in the back.

The extent of injury to green could have been avoided more so by green himself then geathers, had green not gone into a slide he would've taken a hit into his pads avoiding any kind of head trauma. At best case scenairo there would have been offsetting penalties if you're gonna penalize geathers. Kennison should get penalized for illegal block in the back as it clearly shows here

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CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 08:32 PM
From a non chiefs bias point of view after seeing this play several times 2 things to me are fairly obvious

1. Geathers did not intentionally hit green as he was sliding. In fact Geathers was reacting to the run he droped the shoulder as if he expected green to keep running. There was definitly no intentional Helmet to Helmet collisions going on there.

2. Eddie Kennison Absoultly dives at Geathers and was by no means a tap in the back.

The extent of injury to green could have been avoided more so by green himself then geathers, had green not gone into a slide he would've taken a hit into his pads avoiding any kind of head trauma. At best case scenairo there would have been offsetting penalties if you're gonna penalize geathers. Kennison should get penalized for illegal block in the back as it clearly shows here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tU5gp-KJvMY

Oh, crap. A Bungholes fan said Geathers didn't do anything wrong. Well guys, I guess we're focked.

Mcgee24
09-12-2006, 08:36 PM
Oh, crap. A Bungholes fan said Geathers didn't do anything wrong. Well guys, I guess we're focked.


Im a bills fan mcgee= terrence mcgee bills cb/kr, and the video clearly shows kennison blocking in the back, but if you choose to ignore the fairly obvious, well that's your prerogative

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 08:39 PM
Im a bills fan mcgee= terrence mcgee bills cb/kr, and the video clearly shows kennison blocking in the back, but if you choose to ignore the fairly obvious, well that's your prerogativeEven watching your YouTube several thing are obvious:

1. Kennison BARELY made contact and it had no affect on the outcome because GEATHERS WAS ALREADY GOING LOW. 2. Furthermore, he lowered his shoulder. 3. Also, Green's knee was on the ground LONG before Geathers hit him.

cdcox
09-12-2006, 08:41 PM
I'm going to post what I watched John Clayton and Eric Allen say today.......

John Clayton on Mike and Mike frankly said it wasn't dirty. He said he had watched it numerous times on replay and he didn't feel it was dirty. Then he said that he felt Kennison did push him and that it was unfortunate that it caused an injury but he felt Geathers turned to try to get out of the way and it would have been much worse if Geathers was going out of his way to hit Green. Then Golic added on that you can't ask a man to change the direction he's moving once he's off his feet.....then all 3 of them agreed Trent waited to long to slide and that was why he got hit that way. Then Clayton finished by saying at most Geathers would get a fine and the Chiefs were going overboard with wanting a suspension he understands them standing up for their QB but it won't happen and it shouldn't.

Then later I watched Eric Allen basically say the exact same things about players not being able to change directions in the air and it being a violent game.........

at's this about everyone thinking it was dirty again




Myth 1: Geathers was flying through the air and couldn't change his direction once he'd launched himself. Truth: Geathers still had a foot on the ground when Trent went into his slide. Geathers was still changing the angle of his body to deliver the most damaging blow when before he left is feet, very briefly.

Myth 2: Kennison's push is the reason Geathers flew into Trent. Truth: Kennison comes from Geathers' left and pushes him on the left shoulder. What diretion do Geathers and Kennison go? Geathers rolls to the right, against the direction Kennison is pusing. Kennison goes flying off Geather's shoulder. Geathers entire twisting motion to drop his shoulder into Trent is exactly in the opposite direction that Kennison is pushing him.

Myth 3: It was an accident that Geather's hit Green. Truth: Geathers celebrates after the hit. Why would you celebrate if you just got pushed into someone that you were trying to avoid? It just stretches all credibility.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 08:44 PM
Im a bills fan mcgee= terrence mcgee bills cb/kr, and the video clearly shows kennison blocking in the back, but if you choose to ignore the fairly obvious, well that's your prerogative
I have yet to see any video of Kennison even touching Geathers. Even if he did, Geathers was already in the act of plowing Trent. I'd love to get you in front of a jury.

Logical
09-12-2006, 08:45 PM
I have yet to see any tape of Kennison even touching Geathers. Have you? I so please put it up here for all to see.I am only slightly more advanced that you Skip. I have it on my HD Tivo but no way to transfer it to a medium that I can put it on the internet.

headsnap
09-12-2006, 08:46 PM
The extent of injury to green could have been avoided more so by green himself then geathers, had green not gone into a slide he would've taken a hit into his pads avoiding any kind of head trauma.
:rolleyes:

where do these idiots come from?!?!?!


I will type this really slow so you might understand...



Green went into the slide to PROTECT HIMSELF. If he had not gone into his slide it would have been legal and appropriate for Geathers to hit him. The second he started his slide, he was DOWN and the PLAY WAS OVER!!!

BTW, if Green had not gone into the slide, Geathers would have taken our his knees!

headsnap
09-12-2006, 08:49 PM
Myth 3: It was an accident that Geather's hit Green. Truth: Geathers celebrates after the hit. Why would you celebrate if you just got pushed into someone that you were trying to avoid? It just stretches all credibility.
DING, DING, DING!!!


Wh have a winner!!!!

Logical
09-12-2006, 08:49 PM
From a non chiefs bias point of view after seeing this play several times 2 things to me are fairly obvious

1. Geathers did not intentionally hit green as he was sliding. In fact Geathers was reacting to the run he droped the shoulder as if he expected green to keep running. There was definitly no intentional Helmet to Helmet collisions going on there.

2. Eddie Kennison Absoultly dives at Geathers and was by no means a tap in the back.

The extent of injury to green could have been avoided more so by green himself then geathers, had green not gone into a slide he would've taken a hit into his pads avoiding any kind of head trauma. At best case scenairo there would have been offsetting penalties if you're gonna penalize geathers. Kennison should get penalized for illegal block in the back as it clearly shows here

I agree with you and this is one of the clearest films I have seen and still it would benefit from Slo mo. Have I mentioned I love my TIVO

Mcgee24
09-12-2006, 08:54 PM
Even watching your YouTube several thing are obvious:

1. Kennison BARELY made contact and it had no affect on the outcome because GEATHERS WAS ALREADY GOING LOW. 2. Furthermore, he lowered his shoulder. 3. Also, Green's knee was on the ground LONG before Geathers hit him.

1. I think diving into someones back has a pretty big affect on the outcome of a play. Also watch it again. Kennison pushes geathers at the exact moment of the bending of geathers knees.

2. Yes I already pointed out Geathers lowered the shoulder however to me, and you are inclined to disagree as it is your right to do so it was more a lowering of the shoulder to defend the run, not intentionally injure green during a slide.

3. Due to Geathers Momentum whether by force of kennison pushing from behind, or simply due to the fact you cant change direction when you're already in a tackling motion it would've been impossible for him to avoid the hit. Furthermore yes greens knee hit before initial contact but once again it would've been impossible for geathers to avoid the hit as he was already in motion as well.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 08:54 PM
I am only slightly more advanced that you Skip. I have it on my HD Tivo but no way to transfer it to a medium that I can put it on the internet.
If so, wouldn't you think somebody would have posted it by now? I don't think anybody has a camera angle showing EK pushing Geather. If they do they should post it. If they don't they should S.T.F.U.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 08:56 PM
I agree with you and this is one of the clearest films I have seen and still it would benefit from Slo mo. Have I mentioned I love my TIVO

Just remember........we're wrong why? Because Chiefsplanet says so.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 09:00 PM
Just remember........we're wrong why? Because Chiefsplanet says so.
Hahahahahaha. Aligning yourself with Jim in order to save face. Don't you realize Jim has lost all of his credibility on here due to his comments of the past year or so. He used to be very well respected. Not so much anymore. As for you, you are just a tool and not one of much consequence at that.

Logical
09-12-2006, 09:01 PM
If "others" = Clayton and Allen, then WHO = "pretty much everyone else"? Seems to me 99% of the opinions on this board indicate at the very least an Illegal Hit (and correctly so per the rule) all the way up to intentional cheap shot. Please clarify.When everyone was mentioned it was specifically inclusive of the talking heads. Mecca's example disproves that.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 09:02 PM
1. I think diving into someones back has a pretty big affect on the outcome of a play. Also watch it again. Kennison pushes geathers at the exact moment of the bending of geathers knees.
Kennison goes RIGHT, Geathers goes LEFT. Remind me again how that afftected Geathers intent? 2. Yes I already pointed out Geathers lowered the shoulder however to me, and you are inclined to disagree as it is your right to do so it was more a lowering of the shoulder to defend the run, not intentionally injure green during a slide.
DEFEND THE RUN? WHAT RUN? Green was SLIDING.

3. Due to Geathers Momentum whether by force of kennison pushing from behind, or simply due to the fact you cant change direction when you're already in a tackling motion it would've been impossible for him to avoid the hit. Furthermore yes greens knee hit before initial contact but once again it would've been impossible for geathers to avoid the hit as he was already in motion as well.
And the emboldened text says it all. He was already TRYING to tackle. LOW. With intent. Then he lowers his shoulder to maximize the impact.

CHIEF4EVER
09-12-2006, 09:05 PM
When everyone was mentioned it was specifically inclusive of the talking heads. Mecca's example disproves that.

So the talking heads are "everybody"? 2 guys? And how does Meccas example disprove that? Inquiring minds want to know.

Mecca
09-12-2006, 09:06 PM
Hahahahahaha. Aligning yourself with Jim in order to save face. Don't you realize Jim has lost all of his credibility on here due to his comments of the past year or so. He used to be very well respected. Not so much anymore. As for you, you are just a tool and not one of much consequence at that.

You can dislike Jim all you want and post about credibility this and that but atleast he isn't the one saying he has't seen Kennison hit the guy in the back when it's in clear view in that video......that makes you either blind or stupid so which is it?

I'm not alligning myself with anyone either, we just happen to agree on this. It's funny how people can homer things up so much they can't even see things for what they even are anymore.

Logical
09-12-2006, 09:06 PM
Hahahahahaha. Aligning yourself with Jim in order to save face. Don't you realize Jim has lost all of his credibility on here due to his comments of the past year or so. He used to be very well respected. Not so much anymore. As for you, you are just a tool and not one of much consequence at that.ROFL

You saying I have lost respect is pretty amusing Skipper. At least I am consistent.

Gravedigger
09-12-2006, 09:07 PM
What's with this shit? I could swear that Witlock would compose an article bashing everything the Chiefs were like every year. Witlock would even say things like "Green deserved it for running" or something like that..... WHATD YOU DO WITH OUR OLE WITLOCK?!

4th and Long
09-12-2006, 09:17 PM
What's with this shit? I could swear that Witlock would compose an article bashing everything the Chiefs were like every year. Witlock would even say things like "Green deserved it for running" or something like that..... WHATD YOU DO WITH OUR OLE WITLOCK?!
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6959/bodysnatchersjy2.jpg

Gravedigger
09-12-2006, 09:20 PM
That's all I can think of.... he's not human with all that girth he's gotta be hiding like ... seven aliens inside of him.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 09:36 PM
ROFL

You saying I have lost respect is pretty amusing Skipper. At least I am consistent.
So you choose to ignore all the posters who disagree with you? There are many of them, Jim. You can't ignore them all. And yes, you are consistent , consistently negative. Boss Bailey anyone? That's about when you started losing it. I still like you though and you would be the first person I sought out at a get together.

Coach
09-12-2006, 09:38 PM
Awesome, it just turned to "Who Killed Kennedy?"

On one of the photos, you'll clearly see that Luis Castillo was the shooter behind the grassy knoll.

Coach
09-12-2006, 09:47 PM
And as a coach in college level, high school level, and lower, and Bob Dole stated that the rule doesn't address the intent. The rule addresses "hitting a QB going into a slide" should warrant a penalty. It's a general rule that goes from pee-wee to the professional levels.

So when a QB is going to slide or is in the sliding motion, the rule states that he's hands off. If there was contact while the QB was in the sliding motion, it should warrant a penalty, no questions asked.

Why is that we don't see the headslapping from the defensive players anymore? Duh. It warrants a penalty. Or why is that you don't see any collar tackling anymore? Duh again. It warrants a penalty.

My point is that you can hit/tackle anywhere on the body, but you can't hit/tackle on the head. It's dangerous and the potential injury, possibility a career ending. Therefore, it should had warranted a penalty.

Skip Towne
09-12-2006, 09:58 PM
You can dislike Jim all you want and post about credibility this and that but atleast he isn't the one saying he has't seen Kennison hit the guy in the back when it's in clear view in that video......that makes you either blind or stupid so which is it?

I'm not alligning myself with anyone either, we just happen to agree on this. It's funny how people can homer things up so much they can't even see things for what they even are anymore.
Well, if I'm so stupid you ignorant dipshit, please post a video or pic of Kennison even touching Geathers. Nobody else has. You spend waay too much time peering at a computer monitor. Get a job you drag on society.

greg63
09-13-2006, 01:03 AM
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6959/bodysnatchersjy2.jpg

Now that I believe.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=147562&page=1&pp=15

Guru
09-13-2006, 01:07 AM
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6959/bodysnatchersjy2.jpg


Nope. Not even the body snatchers could handle Fatlock

greg63
09-13-2006, 01:44 AM
Nope. Not even the body snatchers could handle Fatlock

Yeah, ya gotta admit; that's askin a lot of a single body snatcher pod. He'd take four or five pods at least. :D

SPchief
09-13-2006, 01:49 AM
letting Geathers get off his feet into his tackling motion beforehand.



I've never played football before, but why would someone leave their feet to tackle someone?

SPchief
09-13-2006, 01:58 AM
1. I think diving into someones back has a pretty big affect on the outcome of a play. Also watch it again. Kennison pushes geathers at the exact moment of the bending of geathers knees.

.

When did Kennison dive into his back?

Mecca
09-13-2006, 03:13 AM
I've never played football before, but why would someone leave their feet to tackle someone?

You have to watch the video he posted you can see clearly that Kennison is off his feet with his hands on Geathers back with his arms extended.

What he's doing is coming off his feet or lunging or leading into to make his tackle. He's a 290lb man, on a wet field getting a shove in the back and to ask him to just pull up is asking far to much in my view. A smaller guy with more athletic flexibility on a dry field could probably jump over him but this man is almost 300lbs, that's why I think saying oh he could just avoid Green isn't exactly the right thought.

If Green had stayed up, which is the way Geathers was playing it he would have tackled him around the legs. Incidently by waiting so long to slide Trent basically slid right into the guys shoulder. Personally I thought the guy made some effort to move to the side because he rolled to the side when he saw Green coming down if he had stayed on the exact same path he was on he would have blasted Green right in the face with the top of his helmet instead of his shoulder.

Guru
09-13-2006, 04:19 AM
During the broadcast there was a camera view from the rear of that hit. In that view, Kennison's "push" looked much more like a tap than anything else. Nowhere near enough to change Geathers heading at all.

From the front, I agree, it looks like Kennison's touch made an impact, but from the rear is a different story.

I have scoured for the video on the net and found nothing. Maybe DRU can weed it out.