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View Full Version : I no longer blame Herm Edwards.


HemiEd
09-12-2006, 04:31 PM
Watched the game again last night very closely. I backed it up and watched key plays several times. IMO it came down to four plays that went wrong for us.
1) Dante Hall's fumble, I already knew that, the momentum clearly changed. We were on our way to dominating the Bengals until that happened.
2) Both of Samie Parkers Offensive pass interference calls. They were both killers to drives that were looking very promising. Were they ticky tack? I don't know, someone else on here knows more than I about that.
3) The hit on Trent Green. Trent was trying to carry the team to a comeback. The team was stunned, you could see it. We ended up with no points on that drive, not even a FG. I hope he comes back for many more drives.

Herm did not ruin the offense, we had our chances even with Jordan Black's OLE moves at RT.

TrickyNicky
09-12-2006, 04:34 PM
BS. Herm has precognition and knew Trent was going down, but of course, he sat at the foot of King Carl's throne squandering the precious time and money it would take to find a replacement QB.

JimNasium
09-12-2006, 04:35 PM
Herm is the debil.

Archie F. Swin
09-12-2006, 04:37 PM
Good call on Samie's flags...also I agree Herm doesn't field punts or stop the run on 3rd and short... last I checked.

Blame should be delt like cards this week.

Stinger
09-12-2006, 04:38 PM
I would like to add one more trent non pass to LJ and getting sacked on the 8-9 yardline. Scrambled out the pocket had LJ in check down for 3-5 seconds looked him off twice (at least that what it looked like in across the field.) Trent and the offence in general looked flumexed at that point in the first half. Decisions they were making where not typical.

I am not sure if they put too much pressure on themselves to preform for the new coach for the fans or what but that was so out of character for Trent for the third or fourth time at that point.

keg in kc
09-12-2006, 04:40 PM
I thought LJ's fumble (he recovered it himself) on 2nd and short early in the game, just before Dante's fumble, was an important play. Drive-killer.

the Talking Can
09-12-2006, 04:44 PM
mostly I agree....4-5 self-inflicted wounds killed us....we had a 2nd and 2 on the first drive, then LJ fumbles..next drive we get to the 11 and then "miscommunicate"...then Parker's penalties both of which came AFTER big gains...even with the shitty OL Trent was piecing it together...

ExtremeChief
09-12-2006, 04:44 PM
I thought LJ's fumble (he recovered it himself) on 2nd and short early in the game, just before Dante's fumble, was an important play. Drive-killer.


Yes it was. That made it 3rd and 13 I believe.


The poor drive near the end of the first half, followed by the poor punt that gave Cincy the ball near the KC 45. Hell, you knew they were going to score.

jspchief
09-12-2006, 04:50 PM
Herm didn't have the team prepared

/idiot

HemiEd
09-12-2006, 04:52 PM
I thought LJ's fumble (he recovered it himself) on 2nd and short early in the game, just before Dante's fumble, was an important play. Drive-killer.

Forgot about the LJ fumble, moved us back to 3rd and Long after having a 2nd and short. Do you think he was trying to run before he caught the ball? That is kind of what I saw. We did maintain the momentum after that though, they had to punt.


Maybe the team was just really tight like Stinger makes reference to?

HC_Chief
09-12-2006, 04:52 PM
Yep.

GAMEPLAN was NOT root failure: EXECUTION was! The coaches cannot control execution. All they can do is substitute personnel.

They did that with Knight... and it was a success!

They did NOT do that with Black.... and it was a miserable failure.

They COULD NOT with Hall and Parker.

I look for Svitek to start against Dungver. Gardner will not be ready in time, so Parker will still be in there. Hall typically has good games against the donkeys, so I look for him to bounce back.

KcMizzou
09-12-2006, 04:53 PM
Yes it was. That made it 3rd and 13 I believe.

The first drive of the game?

As I remember it, it took us from 2nd and 1, to 3rd and 8. Not that it really matters. Keg's point stands.

chop
09-12-2006, 05:03 PM
Right before the half there were two sacks deep in KC territory. The Chiefs had to punt and Colquitt only got the ball to the 37 yard line. The Bengals scored their second td shortly after.

HemiEd
09-12-2006, 05:15 PM
Right before the half there were two sacks deep in KC territory. The Chiefs had to punt and Colquitt only got the ball to the 37 yard line. The Bengals scored their second td shortly after.

Yep Back to Back sacks, with Colquitts worst punt that I remember since he joined the team.

As HC_Chiefs said, the more posts we get here, the more mistakes that come to light. Like many Planeteers, I do not understand the insistence on keeping Black on the field.

KCChiefsFan88
09-12-2006, 05:19 PM
Don't forget blaming Goonther for failing to be prepared to stop Cincy's no-huddle attack

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:31 PM
I thought LJ's fumble (he recovered it himself) on 2nd and short early in the game, just before Dante's fumble, was an important play. Drive-killer.Didn't he drop a pitched ball last year?

Calcountry
09-12-2006, 05:32 PM
Herm didn't have the team prepared

/idiotI was wrong about you. :p

HemiEd
09-13-2006, 07:05 AM
Don't forget blaming Goonther for failing to be prepared to stop Cincy's no-huddle attack

I doubt if Gunther knew they even had one.

catfish307
09-13-2006, 08:47 AM
All of this is King Carl Peterhead's fault, and his F*** Up's are.....

Letting Al Saunders leave and not giving him a chance at the coach's job.

Letting T Rich go to Minnesota.

Hiring Herm Edwards.

I believe the biggest factor of Roaf leaving was the hiring of Edwards.

jrowe
09-13-2006, 09:57 AM
Poor preparation of the team always comes back to the head coach, the camp he runs, the tone he sets, hit intensity etc. Poor preparation = poor execution.

kregger
09-13-2006, 10:00 AM
I thought LJ's fumble (he recovered it himself) on 2nd and short early in the game, just before Dante's fumble, was an important play. Drive-killer.
I put that one on Trent. The pitch was behind LJ. He still should have caught it, but he wouldn't have gained shit anyway. The blocking was there if the pitch leads LJ. Once he turned to try to catch the ball it was over.

htismaqe
09-13-2006, 10:15 AM
All of this is King Carl Peterhead's fault, and his F*** Up's are.....

Letting Al Saunders leave and not giving him a chance at the coach's job.

Letting T Rich go to Minnesota.

Hiring Herm Edwards.

I believe the biggest factor of Roaf leaving was the hiring of Edwards.

This post deserves special recognition...

Fish
09-13-2006, 10:29 AM
I believe the biggest factor of Roaf leaving was the hiring of Edwards.

I believe you are high on PCP.... that's gotta be the dumbest statement of the day....

Woodrow Call
09-13-2006, 10:38 AM
All of this is King Carl Peterhead's fault, and his F*** Up's are.....

Letting Al Saunders leave and not giving him a chance at the coach's job.

Letting T Rich go to Minnesota.

Hiring Herm Edwards.

I believe the biggest factor of Roaf leaving was the hiring of Edwards.

1. No one in the NFL wants Saunders to be a head coach.

2. Roaf has said that DV and his long practices are to blame for his retirement. If anything Herm's practices would have extended his career.

Skip Towne
09-13-2006, 10:43 AM
Forgot about the LJ fumble, moved us back to 3rd and Long after having a 2nd and short. Do you think he was trying to run before he caught the ball? That is kind of what I saw. We did maintain the momentum after that though, they had to punt.


Maybe the team was just really tight like Stinger makes reference to?
It looked to me like Trent pitched the ball behind LJ and he had to reach back for it and missed. I didn't see the stats and don't know if it was called an LJ fumble.

Brock
09-13-2006, 10:57 AM
I had heard Gretz say from the sideline that the DL was "gassed" and that's why they had to burn a timeout. If this is true, I'd have to say that Edwards may not have his team conditioned to play.

HC_Chief
09-13-2006, 11:05 AM
It looked to me like Trent pitched the ball behind LJ and he had to reach back for it and missed. I didn't see the stats and don't know if it was called an LJ fumble.

It was credited as a fumble to Trent

NaptownChief
09-13-2006, 11:11 AM
I had heard Gretz say from the sideline that the DL was "gassed" and that's why they had to burn a timeout. If this is true, I'd have to say that Edwards may not have his team conditioned to play.


Probably true given his rumored cupcake training camps...Looks to me like he tries to overcome his lack of coaching ability by buying loyalty from his players being a friend and a buddy more so than a coach.

If things end well in KC under Herm Average I will be very surprised.

GoHuge
09-13-2006, 11:16 AM
The game plan itself may have been OK but the Chiefs lack of adjustments throughout the game was a big contributing factor as well. All of the above stated errors where killers but Solari never changed up his play calling. Well he did abandon the run but other than that he didn't compensate for Cincy's pass rush. He was playing calling like we where down by 28. It was quite obvious Black and Turley weren't giving Trent or Huard time or adequate protection but Solari kept sending them back in five step drops. He could have brought in an extra TE, shortened their drops, ran more screen plays, etc. but nothing. The first screen pass to Johnson wasn't until the 3rd quarter. LJ was wide open in space more times than I can count yet they kept looking down the field. Has nobody payed attention to what LJ can do when they pass the ball to him in the open? If nothing else check it to him when the pocket is collapsing rather than take off running. Just dump it off to LJ. He's standing RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! That play was there time and time again. When they did pass it to him he made plays. Five catches for 80 yards. Solari just kept calling the same play over and over whether they where working or not. The drive Trent got hurt on was a perfect example. There where six plays in the drive. The three plays prior to him getting hurt 1. the pocket collapsed on a five step drop and Trent scrambled for 7 yards. 2. Five step drop pocket collapsed Trent scrambles for 9 yards. 3. Hand off to LJ for 8 yards. 4. After the pocket collapsed and Trent ran for his life on the two previous 3-5 step drop pass plays he calls another one with the the same result, pocket collapses Trent has to scramble, KO'd. When something's not working you don't keep doing it over and over again hoping it just works itself out. You've got to make some kind of adjustment. Maybe he thought that since Trent was getting positive yardage and moving the chains the "collapsed pocket QB scramble on 2" was the go-to play. Somebody needs to tell the coaches that they don't need to hide LJ anymore. These games count now. Time to fire him up.

Woodrow Call
09-13-2006, 11:26 AM
Probably true given his rumored cupcake training camps...Looks to me like he tries to overcome his lack of coaching ability by buying loyalty from his players being a friend and a buddy more so than a coach.

If things end well in KC under Herm Average I will be very surprised.

On just about every game that I watched Sunday the announcers mentioned the DL was gassed.

One of those games in which it was mentioned was the Giants game and everyone knows that Tom Coughlin runs a cupcake training camp. :rolleyes:

Biggs
09-13-2006, 11:27 AM
Yep.

GAMEPLAN was NOT root failure: EXECUTION was! The coaches cannot control execution. All they can do is substitute personnel.



I freely admit I'm a Jets troll, but I have been watching the Chiefs since 1966 and for all the credit Stram got for his brilliantly schemed Offenses, his teams were great because they executed flawlessly.

The one team in the AFL that always scared the crap out of me was the Chiefs under Stram. I knew they weren't going to beat themselves that they were going to come up with some big plays and we were going to have to play an absolutely perfect game in order to beat them.

Great coaches demand and work on great execution, it's far more important than scheme or play calling.

NaptownChief
09-13-2006, 11:31 AM
One of those games in which it was mentioned was the Giants game and everyone knows that Tom Coughlin runs a cupcake training camp. :rolleyes:


And Peyton Manning runs 100% no huddle and never lets the opponent off the field either....Big difference...Bengals went no huddle for a while against us but didn't do it the entire game like the Colts did to the Giants.

TEX
09-13-2006, 12:22 PM
Watched the game again last night very closely. I backed it up and watched key plays several times. IMO it came down to four plays that went wrong for us.
1) Dante Hall's fumble, I already knew that, the momentum clearly changed. We were on our way to dominating the Bengals until that happened.
2) Both of Samie Parkers Offensive pass interference calls. They were both killers to drives that were looking very promising. Were they ticky tack? I don't know, someone else on here knows more than I about that.
3) The hit on Trent Green. Trent was trying to carry the team to a comeback. The team was stunned, you could see it. We ended up with no points on that drive, not even a FG. I hope he comes back for many more drives.

Herm did not ruin the offense, we had our chances even with Jordan Black's OLE moves at RT.

1. Dominating? I wouldn't say that. But we did seem to have things in control. We lost control when the Nattie wrnt NO HUDDLE and the Chiefs looked like they had their thumbs up their a$$es.

2. Though I can't stand Samie Parker's game, I agree here. But I saw more of this type of call throughout the league last Sunday. Just look what happened to the Giants Sunday night. IMO, the refs have been told to look at this so anything close will get called, at least early on this season. Kind of like the no contact rule after 5 yards last year.

3. I agree here as well. But you have to ask yourself how we got to that point in the first place. Stupid play -calling (See any screens to negate the pass rush?) especially in the Red Zone, (You must take at least 1 shot at the endzone on 1st and 10 from the 11.) a killer turnover, a defense leaking like a sive after the no huddle, and above all horrible OL play.

HemiEd
09-13-2006, 12:58 PM
It looked to me like Trent pitched the ball behind LJ and he had to reach back for it and missed. I didn't see the stats and don't know if it was called an LJ fumble.

That is what I thought I saw as well, just have a hard time putting any blame on Trent right now, but I agree.

HC_Chief
09-13-2006, 01:10 PM
Great coaches demand and work on great execution, it's far more important than scheme or play calling.

I agree that execution is the most important component to the success of a football team. What you need to admit however, is that no matter how much a coach demands perfection, it is impossible to polish a turd. Jordan Black is an absolute turd at RT.

Herm should take shit for not replacing Black when it was obvious he can't handle the asigned job. Can't blame Herm for Dante muffing a punt. Can't blame Herm for Trent and LJ muffing a toss. Can't blame Herm for Sammie Parker's inability to catch a pass that hits him squarely in the freaking hands; nor for his OPI calls.

If we roll into dungver this Sunday with Black at RT, Herm should be fired on the spot. The rest is 'fixable' by the offending parties: Hall will start catching punts, or get benched in favor of someone who can. Parker will start making those catches or get benched in favor of someone who can. LJ and Trent will get the pitch timing down.

Dogpiling on Herm or Solari for the bungles debacle is ignorant. Murphy's Law was in full effect this past Sunday. No matter what KC did, it was doomed to blow up in their face. It was one of those games. Until it becomes a pattern, it should be considered as much.

htismaqe
09-13-2006, 01:14 PM
If the reports are true, Black started Sunday's game because, and ONLY because, Svitek got a false start in practice. Herm wanted to make an example and benched him.

If that's the case, Herm is an idiot.

HC_Chief
09-13-2006, 01:28 PM
If the reports are true, Black started Sunday's game because, and ONLY because, Svitek got a false start in practice. Herm wanted to make an example and benched him.

If that's the case, Herm is an idiot.

Yep. I heard the same report. If true, I'm fine with STARTING Black, rather than Svitek. He should have REPLACED Black mid-game... it was painfully obvious than Jordan can't hang at RT. That's the problem I have... it's fine to send a message, but STUPID to continue with it once your point has been made. Especially when it was something as innocuous as a flase start in practice. FFS, he didn't violate a team/league policy, he didn't break a cardinal rule; he made a mistake in practice and the message you send is that harsh? Come on... pull your f*cking head out.

htismaqe
09-13-2006, 01:36 PM
Yep. I heard the same report. If true, I'm fine with STARTING Black, rather than Svitek. He should have REPLACED Black mid-game... it was painfully obvious than Jordan can't hang at RT. That's the problem I have... it's fine to send a message, but STUPID to continue with it once your point has been made. Especially when it was something as innocuous as a flase start in practice. FFS, he didn't violate a team/league policy, he didn't break a cardinal rule; he made a mistake in practice and the message you send is that harsh? Come on... pull your f*cking head out.

Yeah, I was thinking that as I was posting.

The real crime wasn't starting Black, it was leaving him in.

milkman
09-13-2006, 01:48 PM
Yep. I heard the same report. If true, I'm fine with STARTING Black, rather than Svitek. He should have REPLACED Black mid-game... it was painfully obvious than Jordan can't hang at RT. That's the problem I have... it's fine to send a message, but STUPID to continue with it once your point has been made. Especially when it was something as innocuous as a flase start in practice. FFS, he didn't violate a team/league policy, he didn't break a cardinal rule; he made a mistake in practice and the message you send is that harsh? Come on... pull your f*cking head out.

Replacing a guy because he had A false start in practice with the King of false starts is idiocy defined.

What message is he sending?

It's ok to jump in real games, but your ass better be perfect in practice.

NaptownChief
09-13-2006, 01:55 PM
If the reports are true, Black started Sunday's game because, and ONLY because, Svitek got a false start in practice. Herm wanted to make an example and benched him.

If that's the case, Herm is an idiot.


Wow...If that is true then Herm is an idiot....And they fact he didn't make the change back when it was clear Black can't handle the job makes him a stubborn idiot.

Chiefnj
09-13-2006, 01:57 PM
Was Black called for holding at all in the game? You'd think if a guy was getting beaten as bad as he was he'd hold once in a while.

Fish
09-13-2006, 02:00 PM
Was Black called for holding at all in the game? You'd think if a guy was getting beaten as bad as he was he'd hold once in a while.

I'm not sure that he's smart enough to hold a defender....

HC_Chief
09-13-2006, 02:03 PM
Was Black called for holding at all in the game? You'd think if a guy was getting beaten as bad as he was he'd hold once in a while.

Wow... that's a really good question! I never even thought of that. FTR, I don't remember any holds by Black or Turley.

NaptownChief
09-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Was Black called for holding at all in the game? You'd think if a guy was getting beaten as bad as he was he'd hold once in a while.


In order to hold you have to be able to get your hands on them...He is beaten so badly so often I don't even think he can get his hands on them.

HemiEd
09-13-2006, 03:18 PM
Was Black called for holding at all in the game? You'd think if a guy was getting beaten as bad as he was he'd hold once in a while.

I don't think so, it was very late in the first half before we were flagged at all IIRC. Randy Cross made a comment about it.

picasso
09-13-2006, 03:27 PM
Jordan Black plays on his heels to much.

Warrior5
09-13-2006, 03:42 PM
We lost control when the Nattie wrnt NO HUDDLE and the Chiefs looked like they had their thumbs up their a$$es.

Hey Gun, ya think Shannahan noticed this while watching game tape?
Might want to consider it during practice this week.

P.S. They'll bootleg on Sunday...

Iowanian
09-13-2006, 03:47 PM
I don't disagree with that list, but I'm going to add a couple of others.

The Chiefs D gets a momentum changing Turnover.....Parker lets one go through his hands for an INT on the Chiefs side of the 50....short field for the D to defend.

Colquit has been excellent in the preseason.....but shanked a wet ball that also gave the Bengals great Field position.....he was kicking a wet ball, to a backup Punt returner.....that had potential to be great for the Chiefs.

Huard getting the ball slapped out of his hands on 2 drives didn't help either.

DanT
09-13-2006, 04:44 PM
The game plan itself may have been OK but the Chiefs lack of adjustments throughout the game was a big contributing factor as well. All of the above stated errors where killers but Solari never changed up his play calling. Well he did abandon the run but other than that he didn't compensate for Cincy's pass rush. He was playing calling like we where down by 28. It was quite obvious Black and Turley weren't giving Trent or Huard time or adequate protection but Solari kept sending them back in five step drops. He could have brought in an extra TE, shortened their drops, ran more screen plays, etc. but nothing. The first screen pass to Johnson wasn't until the 3rd quarter. LJ was wide open in space more times than I can count yet they kept looking down the field. Has nobody payed attention to what LJ can do when they pass the ball to him in the open? If nothing else check it to him when the pocket is collapsing rather than take off running. Just dump it off to LJ. He's standing RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! That play was there time and time again. When they did pass it to him he made plays. Five catches for 80 yards. Solari just kept calling the same play over and over whether they where working or not. The drive Trent got hurt on was a perfect example. There where six plays in the drive. The three plays prior to him getting hurt 1. the pocket collapsed on a five step drop and Trent scrambled for 7 yards. 2. Five step drop pocket collapsed Trent scrambles for 9 yards. 3. Hand off to LJ for 8 yards. 4. After the pocket collapsed and Trent ran for his life on the two previous 3-5 step drop pass plays he calls another one with the the same result, pocket collapses Trent has to scramble, KO'd. When something's not working you don't keep doing it over and over again hoping it just works itself out. You've got to make some kind of adjustment. Maybe he thought that since Trent was getting positive yardage and moving the chains the "collapsed pocket QB scramble on 2" was the go-to play. Somebody needs to tell the coaches that they don't need to hide LJ anymore. These games count now. Time to fire him up.


GREAT post!
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Calcountry
09-13-2006, 05:23 PM
It looked to me like Trent pitched the ball behind LJ and he had to reach back for it and missed. I didn't see the stats and don't know if it was called an LJ fumble.LJ has to make that catch. Yeah it might have been a bit off, but he has to make that.

He was trying to run before he had the ball.

Baby Lee
09-13-2006, 05:27 PM
I HATE PARAGRAPHS!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
;)

Calcountry
09-13-2006, 05:28 PM
1. Dominating? I wouldn't say that. But we did seem to have things in control. We lost control when the Nattie wrnt NO HUDDLE and the Chiefs looked like they had their thumbs up their a$$es.

2. Though I can't stand Samie Parker's game, I agree here. But I saw more of this type of call throughout the league last Sunday. Just look what happened to the Giants Sunday night. IMO, the refs have been told to look at this so anything close will get called, at least early on this season. Kind of like the no contact rule after 5 yards last year.

3. I agree here as well. But you have to ask yourself how we got to that point in the first place. Stupid play -calling (See any screens to negate the pass rush?) especially in the Red Zone, (You must take at least 1 shot at the endzone on 1st and 10 from the 11.) a killer turnover, a defense leaking like a sive after the no huddle, and above all horrible OL play.Jordon Black ought to be good at selling the screen.

HemiEd
09-13-2006, 08:30 PM
I don't disagree with that list, but I'm going to add a couple of others.

The Chiefs D gets a momentum changing Turnover.....Parker lets one go through his hands for an INT on the Chiefs side of the 50....short field for the D to defend.

Colquit has been excellent in the preseason.....but shanked a wet ball that also gave the Bengals great Field position.....he was kicking a wet ball, to a backup Punt returner.....that had potential to be great for the Chiefs.

Huard getting the ball slapped out of his hands on 2 drives didn't help either.

Yep, Parker just had a horrible game, hard for any team to overcome. Huard has been around long enough to know how to bring the ball in when he moves up. Colquitts punt shocked me, had not thought about the rain.

HemiEd
09-13-2006, 08:39 PM
I don't disagree with that list, but I'm going to add a couple of others.

The Chiefs D gets a momentum changing Turnover.....Parker lets one go through his hands for an INT on the Chiefs side of the 50....short field for the D to defend.

Colquit has been excellent in the preseason.....but shanked a wet ball that also gave the Bengals great Field position.....he was kicking a wet ball, to a backup Punt returner.....that had potential to be great for the Chiefs.

Huard getting the ball slapped out of his hands on 2 drives didn't help either.

Yep, Parker just had a horrible game, hard for any team to overcome. Huard has been around long enough to know how to bring the ball in when he moves up. Colquitts punt shocked me, had not thought about the rain.