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ferrarispider95
09-13-2006, 10:26 AM
MUNICH (Reuters) - BMW will roll out the world's first hydrogen-burning car in serial production early next year, the German premium automaker said on Tuesday, eager to put its stamp on cars with green credentials.

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The specially equipped 7-Series executive cars emit only water vapor when running on hydrogen.

The car hits the market next April and will be shown at the Los Angeles car show in November, the company said. It had said in March the hydrogen cars would arrive within two years.

A spokesman said the car would be leased to selected customers rather than sold because of its high price. Leasing rates would be similar to those for a top-end BMW 760LI with a full-service package.

The BMW 7 Series Hydrogen 7 Saloon is powered by a 260 hp twelve-cylinder engine and accelerates from 0-100 km/h (62 mph) in 9.5 seconds. Top speed is limited electronically to 230 km/h.

BMW has said it intends to build a few hundred such cars at first. They will be able to switch between burning standard petrol and hydrogen so that drivers will not be left stranded while the infrastructure to deliver hydrogen is built up.

"The integration of hydrogen drive in an existing vehicle concept which has already proven its merits in the market paves the way for an alternative to conventional drive concepts fully accepted in the market and with all the assets the customer is looking for in practice," BMW said.

The space that two fuel tanks take up means only the 7-Series will offer the hydrogen package at first. BMW's long-term goal is to offer hydrogen motors in all its cars.

BMW unveiled the world's fastest hydrogen-powered car at the 2004 Paris auto show. Dubbed the H2R, it can exceed 300 kilometers (185 miles) per hour and reaches 100 km per hour from a standing start in around six seconds.

While BMW is developing fuel-cell driven cars as well, it says it is concentrating on the combustion engine because the sum total of its features and characteristics offers the largest number of advantages and benefits all in one.

ferrarispider95
09-13-2006, 10:28 AM
Its a expensive start, but may trickle down into more affordable lines if it is successful. But, where do you fill up on hydrogen, and what does it cost? Or can you go oldschool and make your own.

morphius
09-13-2006, 10:31 AM
That seems rather power weak for 12 cylinder, 9.5s is a bit like driving a 4 banger Ranger. I'm interested in seeing how far it will go on a tank of hydrogen.

SNR
09-13-2006, 10:33 AM
That's nothing. Has recxj told you that the Chevy Suburban gets more than 20 MPG on the highway?

Bob Dole
09-13-2006, 10:35 AM
Seems doomed to fail unless BMW is planning to build hydrogen refueling stations all over. No retailer is going to go to the expense to put in facilities that serve such a limited number of customers, and nobody but the uber-rich is going to buy the thing when you can't find fuel for it.

Chicken or the egg.

recxjake
09-13-2006, 10:36 AM
http://news.windingroad.com/auto-news/gm-sequel-will-be-a-chevrolet/

GM: Sequel Will Be A Chevrolet
Chevrolet, GM, Fuel, Future Vehicles September 11th, 2006 12:44 AM

GM announced today that their Sequel all-wheel drive fuel-cell vehicle will be a Chevrolet. The next-generation hydrogen car was unveiled at the Detroit auto show in 2005 and at that time was called the “GM Sequel;” the redesigned version of the crossover was unveiled today by Larry Burns, GM’s vice president in charge of R&D and product planning. WINDING ROAD will be in the first media group in the world to drive the functional running prototype tomorrow in California. We’re on hand at the company’s event, which will be featured in an upcoming issue of WINDING ROAD.

The decision to brand the fuel-cell vehicle as a bowtie product follows the company’s choice to further establish Chevrolet as a global value brand. For fuel cell and alternative fuel vehicles, it positions GM as wanting to put these technologies in the hands of everyone, not just luxury consumers, which would have been the case had the Sequel been a Cadillac or Saab.

Of course, with only two running Sequels in the entire world (the concept vehicle in 2005 was different vehicle; the two prototypes we’ll drive tomorrow are brand new), not even the most well-heeled Chevrolet buyer would be in the position to buy this whiz-bang crossover. GM won’t reveal how much they’ve sank into the Sequel development, but one would guess each one is a multi-million-dollar car. Let’s hope we don’t bend it on our test drive.

GM’s press release:

GM REINVENTS THE AUTOMOBILE: CHEVROLET SEQUEL IS A BETTER, CLEANER, PETROLEUM-FREE SOLUTION

SAN DIEGO — General Motors today allowed journalists to drive the most technologically advanced automobile ever built — the Chevrolet Sequel, GM’s solution to provide the world with a cleaner, petroleum-free vehicle that is better in nearly every way.

“General Motors is proving that advanced technology can remove the automobile from the environmental debate and reduce our dependence on petroleum,” said Larry Burns, GM vice president, research & development and strategic planning. “Chevy Sequel clearly shows that our vision for the future of the automobile is real and sustainable.”

Sequel was introduced in 2005 at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. It is the first vehicle in the world to successfully integrate a hydrogen fuel cell propulsion system with a broad menu of advanced technologies such as steer-and brake-by-wire controls, wheel hub motors, lithium-ion batteries and a lightweight aluminum structure. It uses clean, renewable hydrogen as a fuel and emits only water vapor.

“Sequel fundamentally changes the DNA of today’s automobiles … exchanging an internal combustion engine, petroleum and mechanical systems for fuel cell propulsion, hydrogen and electrical systems,” Burns said. “In Sequel, GM has created a real vehicle that promises to excite customers and lead to long-term, sustainable automotive transportation.”

Compared to other fuel cell vehicles, Sequel has an unprecedented range of 300 miles between fill-ups and spirited acceleration, attaining 60 mph in just 10 seconds. Sequel also has all the amenities one would expect in a premium, five-passenger crossover SUV, including impressive styling, a spacious interior and an all-aluminum body and structure designed to meet all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. It has a low-profile, skateboard-like chassis that houses all of its main propulsion, braking and chassis components.

“Sequel is a vehicle that is better in nearly every way — quicker, more sure-footed, easier to handle, easier to build and better looking, while being safe and emitting only water vapor,” said Burns.

Other benefits include:
- Unequaled control on snow and ice, or uneven terrain
- 70-percent more torque for unparalleled acceleration
- Shorter braking distances
- Ability to “talk” to other vehicles about traffic congestion or road conditions

“Four years ago, our chairman and CEO, Rick Wagoner, challenged us to completely rethink the automobile,” Burns said. “With the Chevy Sequel, we have now met Rick’s challenge by reinventing the automobile and making it real. We’ve proven a new DNA for vehicles that is viable for the future.”

Specifications: GM Chevrolet Sequel

General
Vehicle type: all-wheel-drive crossover vehicle with fuel cell and by-wire technology
Chassis: aluminum substructures
Body: aluminum body / frame integral structure with aluminum panels and aluminum closures
Seating capacity: 4 or 5

Dimensions
Wheelbase (in / mm): 119.7 / 3040
Length (in / mm): 196.6 / 4994
Width (in / mm): 77.4 / 1966
Height (in / mm): 66.8 / 1697
Curb weight (lb / kg): 4774 / 2170

Fuel storage system
Type: 3 carbon composite high-pressure tanks for hydrogen mounted in the sandwich chassis
Service pressure (psi / bar): 10,000 / 700
Storage capacity (lb / kg): 17.6 / 8

Fuel cell power module
Power (kW): 73

Battery system
Type: lithium-ion high-power battery pack
Power (kW): 65

Electric traction system
Front system: 3-phase asynchronous electric motor with integrated power electronics and planetary gear
Power (kW): 65
Torque (lb-ft / Nm): 1740 / 2350
Gear ratio: 10.95:1
Rear system: 2 3-phase permanent magnet synchronous, direct drive, electric wheel hub motors
Power (kW): 2 times 25
Torque (lb-ft / Nm): 2 times 590/800
Gear ratio: 1:1
Total traction power (kW): 115
Total torque at wheels (lb-ft/Nm): 2920 / 3950

Performance
Acceleration 0-60 mph (sec): < 10
Top speed (mph / km/h): 90 / 145
Operating range (miles / km): 300 / 480

jiveturkey
09-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Good for GM.

recxjake
09-13-2006, 10:45 AM
It's clear that hydrogen is the answer... the question is how long?

StcChief
09-13-2006, 11:45 AM
Distribution systems cost setup.

Most be enough vehicles to make it work.

Chicken/Egg problem again. Make it home if a possible.

CrazyPhuD
09-13-2006, 01:03 PM
So a couple caviats BMW is lying when they say that the hydrogen powered car will emit only water vapors. Completely untrue, they actually have some significant issues with NO emmissions. The only way you have pure water emmisions is to have a pure O2 source and a pure H2 source, i.e. they would need to have an oxygen tank and a hydrogen tank to get pure emmissions.

Basic chem

2 H2 + O2 = 2 H2O

2 H2 + 2 O2 + N2 = 2 H2O + 2NO

remember air is 70% nitrogen. buring hydrogen in air will generate Nitric Oxide which isn't too good for the air

Halfcan
09-13-2006, 01:52 PM
So when some drunk ass rear ends you-you go up like a bomb??

Mr. Laz
09-13-2006, 02:31 PM
It's clear that hydrogen is the answer... the question is how long?
as soon as our government officials stop accepting bribes from the oil industry lobbyists.

mlyonsd
09-13-2006, 02:35 PM
as soon as our government officials stop accepting bribes from the oil industry lobbyists.

There's the rub.

The oil companies stand to make money off of switching to hydrogen since they already own the infrastructure necessary to fill up cars with hydrogen.

Mr. Laz
09-13-2006, 02:51 PM
There's the rub.

The oil companies stand to make money off of switching to hydrogen since they already own the infrastructure necessary to fill up cars with hydrogen.
yes ... they will

but they also are making money on the other end with oil production. They don't want to give up the golden goose and make the switch until the level of oil drops low enough that makes finding it and pumping it out becomes too difficult to be worth it.


we won't see hydrogen until the oil companies want it ....... and that won't happen until we've get way passed "Peak Oil".

Wrasse
09-13-2006, 08:40 PM
So I just got finished watching Glenn Back on the tele (yes, some may hate him here and, although I don't always agree with him, he is fun to watch at times)...seems Honda and BMW are racing to get their Hydrogen cars on the market.

He interviewed a guy who researched this heavily and wrote some book ('Internal Combustion' I think was the title)...basically this guy stated that the whole 'have to set up the infrastructure' line is BS. Essentially Honda is creating a home hydrogen unit that converts the fuel for you and can power your home. So you fill up AT your house (although you may also have to fill up on the road as I know nothing about these cars)...anyway...anyone hear about this?

I guess I'll have to go buy the book. :P

(ah, found it here: http://www.amazon.com/Internal-Combustion-Corporations-Governments-Alternatives/dp/0312359071/sr=8-1/qid=1158201552/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6914985-3062361?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Hydrae
09-13-2006, 08:55 PM
So I just got finished watching Glenn Back on the tele (yes, some may hate him here and, although I don't always agree with him, he is fun to watch at times)...seems Honda and BMW are racing to get their Hydrogen cars on the market.

He interviewed a guy who researched this heavily and wrote some book ('Internal Combustion' I think was the title)...basically this guy stated that the whole 'have to set up the infrastructure' line is BS. Essentially Honda is creating a home hydrogen unit that converts the fuel for you and can power your home. So you fill up AT your house (although you may also have to fill up on the road as I know nothing about these cars)...anyway...anyone hear about this?

I guess I'll have to go buy the book. :P

(ah, found it here: http://www.amazon.com/Internal-Combustion-Corporations-Governments-Alternatives/dp/0312359071/sr=8-1/qid=1158201552/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6914985-3062361?ie=UTF8&s=books)

There is a website related to this book. I have not checked it out yet but wanted to make people know about it.

LINK (http://www.internalcombustionbook.com/)