09-14-2006, 11:44 AM
To me it's simple: we get back our OL of the last 5 years we will be hard to beat. Herm will insure we have at least a Top 15 D, and we already have enough offensive weapons to insure we can score points the majority of the time the O takes the field just as long as we have a strong OL.
So if we can't get back our OL this year can we get it back next year?
All we need is our OL back. We don't have to clean house. We're close. DV did not leave this team in shambles. CP has no one to blame but himself!
09-14-2006, 12:01 PM
The better get the Sampson, Black,Svitek up to speed.
09-14-2006, 12:08 PM
Yes, putting together the best line in the NFL is easy. Every team has one except us.
09-14-2006, 12:19 PM
Yes, putting together the best line in the NFL is easy. Every team has one except us.
That's what I keep thinking. People seem to think fixing o-lines is easy, when in reality it seems to be about the hardest thing to do.
There are 32 teams around the league trying to make a great O-line every year, but not a lot of people pulling it off.
09-14-2006, 12:38 PM
I think we can, but it will cost.
Sign a vet LT that is at the top of his game - it will cost us though.
Signing a decent G as well to replace Shields
With our first round pick, take another T
The other 2 picks on the first day need to be a G or C and a WR.
With Solari as the OC, I think he will work to address the problems with the Line. We have to remember the OL was solid until June. That didn't exactly give them much time to fix it with all the decent FAs already gone.
09-14-2006, 12:40 PM
Actually it isn't had but for whatever reason people don't give it any attention and think they can put together an offensive line out of 6th and 7th round scrubs. You have to spend some draft choices on offensive lineman and not just left tackles. Look at what the NY Jets did. Spent first 2 draft picks on o-lineman including a center. They'll probably have the best offensive line in football for the majority of the next 10 years from this one draft.
Those who were smart saw this coming a long time ago. This team needed to draft a tackle in '05 and didnt. That was semi-excusable. But everybody saw how much Black sucked last year and it was completely obvious this team needed a tackle in '06 to be a backup and groom for Roaf's replacement. There were plenty of good tackles available there in the 2nd round but they took Pollard instead.....who's now getting beat out by a 7th rounder......so there ya go.
09-14-2006, 01:03 PM
If we got it playing decent this year where screwed all over again next year. We have to replace our starting tackles this year one of which is a guy going to the HOF. Next year we'll have to replace our HOF All Everything guard in Will Shields and possible our center. Shields and Weigmann will have enough respect for this team, city, etc. to retire before the first day of training camp. We will have the chance to pick some replacements in FA or the draft. Right now the guys on our line for next year is Waters, Turley, Svitek, Sampson, Black. I'm excited! You can forget about getting "our line" back. You'll never see two HOF guys on the line at the same time in KC again. Think about that for a second..... Hall of Fame. We had two at once and the whole line played side by side for two years straight. You can't recreate that. We where beyond spoiled. That was argueably the greatest line to ever play in the NFL.
09-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Here is an interesting article from GBN on college O-linemen...
August 18, 2006
by Colin Lindsay and Josh Buchanan
Overview: If at first you don't succeed... !! The 2006 draft was supposed to be the year of the OT, however, it never worked out that way despite the fact that former Virginia star D'Brickashaw Ferguson went fourth overall to the Jets. While the offensive line may have to play second fiddle to the WRs this year, it looks like the 2007 draft could be that very special year, particularly at OT. Wisconsin LT Joe Thomas, for example, likely would have given Ferguson a run for his money to be the first OT off the board this past April if he hadn't hurt a knee during the Badgers' bowl game. The 6-8 Thomas, though, is a mountain of a man with excellent feet who should figure in the top 5 picks this coming April, if the knee checks out. And speaking of mountains, both 6-7, 320-pound Michigan junior Jake Long and 6-4, 330-pound Justin Blalock both should figure in the middle of this year's opening round, while USC junior Sam Baker, Levi Brown of Penn State, athletic Doug Free of Northern Illinois and Arron Sears of Tennessee will get long looks later in the opening round if not sooner. NIU's Free, in particular, is a converted TE with the athleticism to rocket up draft boards across the NFL this coming off-season.
There should be plenty of depth at OT this year with players like Ryan Harris of Notre Dame, Andrew Carnahan of Arizona State, Joe Ainslie of Minnesota, and Jake Kuresa of BYU leading a deep second-tier group of OTs. Meanwhile, juniors Barry Richardson of Clemson, Mike McGlynn of Pittsburgh, John Greco of Toledo, and Kirk Barton of Ohio State would add some additional depth if they entered the upcoming draft. None of these juniors, though, will likely rate as a potential first-round prosepct; indeed, while 2007 appears to be loaded at OT, the 2008 draft looks like it could be thin at the position so teams may want to stock up this year.
It also doesn't look like it will be a top year for OTs from non-DIA schools altough players like Corey Davis of James Madison, Elliott Vallejo of UC Davis, Heath Benedict of Newberry, Marcus Thomas of Western Carolina, Jacob Bender of Nicholls State, 6-6, 350-pound Andre Bender of Grambling, Brandon Nixon of UMass, Jason Capizzi of Indiana (Pa), and Joe Hirst of Montana State should at least attract some free agent interest.
Top 20 OT Prospects
# Player H/W School CL
1 Joe Thomas 6-8, 310 Wisconsin SR
2 Jake Long 6-7, 320 Michigan JR
3 Justin Blalock 6-4, 330 Texas SR
4 Doug Free 6-6, 305 Northern Illinois SR
5 Sam Baker 6-5, 305 Southern California JR
6 Levi Brown 6-6-5, 325 Penn State SR
7 Arron Sears 6-4, 335 Tennessee JR
8 Andrew Carnahan 6-8, 300 Arizona State JR
9 Ryan Harris 6-5, 295 Notre Dame SR
10 Jake Kuresa 6-4, 340 BYU SR
11 Joe Ainslie 6-6, 310 Minnesota SR
12 Daniel Inman 6-7, 328 Georgia SR
13 Herbert Taylor 6-4, 290 TCU SR
14 Joe Staley 6-5, 300 Central Michigan SR
15 Aaron Brandt 6-6, 320 Iowa State SR
16 Brian Stamper 6-5, 305 Vanderbilt SR
17 Thed Watson 6-5, 295 South Florida SR
18 Jeff Perrett 6-7, 330 Tulsa SR
19 Brandon Cox 6-6, 330 Louisiana-Lafayette SR
20 Chase Johnson 6-7, 325 Wyoming SR
While OT looks like it will be one of the strengths of the 2007 draft, it doesn't appear that there will be anywhere near as much talent at either the OG or center positions. In fact, it is very unlikely that any OG or C will be selected in this year's opening round, although OG Josh Beekman of Boston College and C Kyle Young should factor into the mix as early as the middle second round. Meanwhile, Cs Dan Mozes of West Virginia and super strong Samson Satele, along with OGs like Corey Hilliard of Oklahoma State, Tim Duckworth of Auburn and New Mexico's Robert Turner are later first-day prospects, however, overall neither group appears to be all that strong.
There is some hope for the future at both OG and C as there should be somewhat stronger junior classes at both positions. Top junior OGs include Shannon Tevaga of UCLA, Will Arnold of LSU, Roy Schuenning of Oregon State, Jordan Grimes of Purdue and Tad Miller of Boise State, although again none looks like a sure-fire first rounder whenever they enter the pro draft. Same story at C where Kory Lichtensteiger of Bowling Green, Doug Legursky of Marshall, Trevor Rees of Northwestern, and Robbie Krutilla are the top juniors.
Again, it won't be a banner year for OGs and Cs from outside the ranks of D1A programs, however, OGs Ryan Belcher of Western Oregon, Donovan Davis of Grambling, Robert Blocker of Bowie State, and Jermaine Pruitt of Alcorn State, who average over 350 pounds per man, along with C Donald Ursey of Southeastern Louisiana should be on pro teams post-draft free agent radars.
Top 10 OG Prospects
# Player H/W School CL
1 Josh Beekman 6-2, 325 Boston College SR
2 Corey Hilliard 6-4, 300 Oklahoma State SR
3 Tim Duckworth 6-3, 310 Auburn SR
4 Robert Turner 6-4, 320 New Mexico SR
5 Kurt Quartermain 6-4, 340 Louisville SR
6 George Batiste 6-4, 310 Southern Mississippi SR
7 Manual Ramirez 6-3, 340 Texas Tech SR
8 Brian Daniels 6-3, 300 Colorado SR
9 Brian Anderson 6-5, 310 Mississippi State SR
10 Mike Jones 6-5, 305 Iowa SR
Top 10 C Prospects
1 Kyle Young 6-5, 330 Fresno State SR
2 Dan Mozes 6-3, 295 West Virginia SR
3 Samson Satele 6-2, 310 Hawaii SR
4 Ryan Kahlil 6-2, 285 Southern California SR
5 Lyle Sendlein 6-3, 315 Texas SR
6 Leroy Harris 6-3, 300 North Carolina State SR
7 Mark Fenton 6-3, 295 Colorado SR
8 Dustin Fry 6-2, 325 Clemson SR
9 Cedric Marcoux-Gagne 6-3, 290 Central Florida SR
10 Enoka Lucas 6-3, 305 Oregon SR
Sleeper file: He's actually only played two games at OT at the collegiate level, but 6-6, 320-pound Illinois OT Charles Myles made a nice adjustment to the position after switching over from defense late last fall to have pro scouts wanting to see more. And while its hard to miss a 335-pound SEC starter, here's hoping Zac Tubbs of Arkansas finally catches a break; Tubbs hasn't played since the 2004 season when he broke a leg, and ended up on life support when a blot clot ended up in his lungs during rehab. Then there is Nevada OG Barrett Reznick who isn't big at all at barely 6-1, 285, but he's as tough as nails to watch and just plain fun to watch play.
Future file: The apparent down year at OT in 2008 looks like it should only be a short-term glitch as there are a bevy of good young sophomore OTs across the country including 6-8 Jared Gaither of Maryland, 6-8 Alex Boone of Ohio State, Michael Oher of Ole Miss, Ryan Clady of Boise State, John Brost of Northern Illinois, Mike Tepper of California, Max Unger of Oregon, Andrew Gardner of Georgia Tech, and Derek Hoke of Utah State, while there are also several outstanding freshman OTs including LSU redshirt Ciron Black and recruits Andre Smith of Alabama, one of the top incoming freshman in college football, and 6-6, 340-pound Mike Hicks of UConn. There are also some fine young OGs out there including sophomores Dallas Reynolds of BYU, Ramon Foster of Tennessee, Jeff Byers of USC, Curtis Crouch of NC State, Aaron Shutz of Louisiana-Monroe, Chris DeGeare of Wake Forest, Kraik Urbik of Wisconsin, Leo Talavou of Arizona State and Louis Vasquez of Texas Tech, who weigh an average of 335 pounds per man including the 370-pound Talavou and 360-pound DeGeare. And 338-pound UCLA redshirt freshman OG Aleksey Lanis, the top RFR OG in the country, isn't going to bring the class average down! Meanwhile, top young Cs include sophomores Antoine Caldwell of Alabama, Jonathan Luigs of Arkansas, Eric Wood of Louisville, and Dumaka Atkins of Florida State.
09-14-2006, 01:12 PM
I also think it is important for us to get a philosophy on what our offense is going to be before we start drafting O-linemen. It appears Herm and the OC are not on the same page. And I know this topic should be in a different thread than this one, but that type of thing is why I was really hoping Herm would clean house on both sides of the ball when bringing in assistant coaches. All coaches and players start with a clean slate with no pre-formed opinions on either side that way. And I don't think we are going to be a serious Super Bowl contender until that happens, which most likely will be the next regime.
09-14-2006, 01:26 PM
As long as it's not a top 5 pick, I don't think you should ever touch a OT in the top 5.
09-14-2006, 02:54 PM
Let's see, players like Roaf, Shields and Waters grown on trees. They're everywhere, right?
Let's get real, the people who think Carl Peterson should be run out of town on a rail like myself, feel so due to the fact that he HAD a once-in-a-franchise type line/offense and RB (Holmes) and couldn't win a playoff game with it. You had your turn Carl, and couldn't cut it. NEXT!
09-14-2006, 06:20 PM
Two tackles, a guard and maybe a center? - It's doubtful.
In fact, we absolutely have to have either Sampson or Svitek (or both) become dominating just to have any hope at all of being more than a .500 team in 2007 and 2008.
09-14-2006, 06:23 PM
It's more likely that Johnny Unitas would come back from the dead, sign as a Free Agent with KC, and lead us to a SB this year.
That line was legendary. It won't be replaced easily.
the Talking Can
09-14-2006, 06:27 PM
no, we wasted one of the best OLs the league will ever see....we have absolutely NOTHING to show for it either....only CP could pull that off.....
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