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View Full Version : Dr. Z Gets It Right On Geathers


Brock
09-14-2006, 01:04 PM
Necessary roughness?

The kill shot that Cincy's Robert Geathers laid on K.C.'s Trent Green should have drawn not only a flag, but also an ejection. It was ruled legal, but just barely, because supposedly Geathers was blocked into Green, who had already launched his slide. Maybe it was easier for us, given a first look and replays, to get the sense of the play more fully than the official on the spot did, but the intent was clear. Take the QB out at head level. Geathers could have veered off, but he chose not to, and Green was out cold for almost 15 minutes.

This was the same situation as the Warren Sapp case of a few years ago. He went halfway across the field to launch a blindside shot on the Packers' Chad Clifton, following an interception. Clifton had been out of the play. Sapp's shot put him in the hospital and nearly ended his career. Again, it was ruled legal. It didn't even draw a flag, although it was an ugly, mean act. "Crippling the dummy" was what we used to call it.

The best comment I heard about this came from a high school official.

"There is a rule on the books calling for a penalty for unnecessary roughness," he said. "In the NFL it's basically ignored, but at the high school level it's taken very seriously. The key word is unnecessary. Did the play have to be made, within a football context? If there's the slightest doubt, the flag is dropped. The Sapp play was unnecessary."

And so was the shot Geathers laid on Green. A mean, vicious play that produced the desired result.

cdcox
09-14-2006, 01:09 PM
Ding. The obvious intent to maim shown by Geathers was enough to wipe out any mitigating factors (Kenninson's push) for me.

TrickyNicky
09-14-2006, 01:17 PM
Wow, Dr. Z the only person to actually say it surprises me. I would've thought more NFL opinion-aters would have chimed in with the same sentiments.

He also hit the nail on the head with why Nessler, Vermeil, and Jaws were vastly superior to the regular MNF crew.

nmt1
09-14-2006, 01:19 PM
I don't care how vicious the hit was. What frustrates me is the inconsistency of the officiating. I've seen many other instances where a player hit, jumped on top of, or pushed a QB already in the process of sliding and it drawing a flag, regardless of whether the QB was knocked out or jumped up and ran back to the huddle.
Many have said that if this happened to Peyton Manning or Tom Brady that the NFL would've melted down. That's quite possible. I don't think it has anything to do with who the QB is though. It has everything to do with the officials not calling games consistently.
The hit and the lack of a penalty would've been much less controversial if we hadn't seen other similar situations, most far less extreme, result in penalties in the past.

Rain Man
09-14-2006, 01:19 PM
I find the whole Kennison excuse to be a bit mystifying. If Kennison affected Geathers' path, where was Geathers aiming? Was he really trying to hit the ground a foot to Trent's left, only to be blocked into him? If Geathers didn't hit where he was aiming, then he must have pretty bad aim.

morphius
09-14-2006, 01:21 PM
I find the whole Kennison excuse to be a bit mystifying. If Kennison affected Geathers' path, where was Geathers aiming? Was he really trying to hit the ground a foot to Trent's left, only to be blocked into him? If Geathers didn't hit where he was aiming, then he must have pretty bad aim.
I think they are saying that it caused him to accelerate into Green harder....

DJ's left nut
09-14-2006, 01:25 PM
The only question you really have to ask yourself...

How does the NFL rule on this one if it's Tom Brady or a Manning on the turf?

It takes a phenominal exercise in intellectual dishonesty to suggest that Gaethers wouldn't be missing at least 1 game if those were the circumstances.

We got 'Chiefed' yet again.

the Talking Can
09-14-2006, 01:25 PM
I've- seen flags thrown for literally slapping the QB on the helmet.

If that wasn't a penalty THEN THERE ARE NO PENALTIES.

nmt1
09-14-2006, 01:27 PM
I've- seen flags thrown for literally slapping the QB on the helmet.

If that wasn't a penalty THEN THERE ARE NO PENALTIES.

Exactly. The inconsistent officiating is maddening.

Mecca
09-14-2006, 01:30 PM
The only question you really have to ask yourself...

How does the NFL rule on this one if it's Tom Brady or a Manning on the turf?

It takes a phenominal exercise in intellectual dishonesty to suggest that Gaethers wouldn't be missing at least 1 game if those were the circumstances.

We got 'Chiefed' yet again.

.......If you wanna think the league ****ed up and all that hey that's fine but you know saying things like "chiefed" and acting like the league purposely hates the Chiefs and is out to get them is well ****in stupid. Do you really think people sit around the league office going "lets think of a way to screw the Chiefs".

It's more of that little guy syndrome where you always think the team isn't getting respect and no one likes them and they aren't thought of like other teams. Really acting like theres some conspiracy against the Chiefs by the league is frankly stupid.

JBucc
09-14-2006, 01:34 PM
The NFL just wants to get rid of Trent. They already failed once with Rodney so they had to have Geathers finish the job. Looks like he failed too though. Wonder who they'll pay off next?:hmmm: My guess is Merriman. It's a conspriacy I tells ya!

SPchief
09-14-2006, 01:34 PM
Mecca is quickly turning into Mememe when it comes to defending the NFL

Mecca
09-14-2006, 01:36 PM
Mecca is quickly turning into Mememe when it comes to defending the NFL

So you think it's fine to think there's a conspiracy against the Chiefs......uh yea ok.

:::::::::Puts on tinfoil hat:::::::

Brock
09-14-2006, 01:37 PM
Mecca is quickly turning into Mememe when it comes to defending the NFL

yeah, it's really pathetic watching him chug down Carson Palmer's spooge a few months ago, then this happens to Green and suddenly a kill shot on a QB is no big deal.

SPchief
09-14-2006, 01:40 PM
So you think it's fine to think there's a conspiracy against the Chiefs......uh yea ok.

:::::::::Puts on tinfoil hat:::::::


I think you missed the intent of my post.

SPchief
09-14-2006, 01:40 PM
yeah, it's really pathetic watching him chug down Carson Palmer's spooge a few months ago, then this happens to Green and suddenly a kill shot on a QB is no big deal.


Brock gets it.

DJ's left nut
09-14-2006, 01:41 PM
.......If you wanna think the league ****ed up and all that hey that's fine but you know saying things like "chiefed" and acting like the league purposely hates the Chiefs and is out to get them is well ****in stupid. Do you really think people sit around the league office going "lets think of a way to screw the Chiefs".

It's more of that little guy syndrome where you always think the team isn't getting respect and no one likes them and they aren't thought of like other teams. Really acting like theres some conspiracy against the Chiefs by the league is frankly stupid.

I wasn't terribly clear, I don't think it's a KC issue. I think there are certain 'darling' teams and 'darling' players that the NFL will take steps to protect. KC is not one of those teams and does not currently have one of those players. I think the same thing would have happened if Trent Green played for say, Tennessee. But if Peyton Manning is playing for KC and gets that shot, there's a suspension, or if Green played for the Giants, same story.

We (and other medium/small market teams) tend to get hung out on things like this.

tk13
09-14-2006, 01:42 PM
I do think the reaction would've been different had it been Manning or Brady. At the least, it would've started a discussion to change the rules to protect the QB.

Mecca
09-14-2006, 01:42 PM
Those are 2 different situations and after the game I was fine and realized it wasn't a dirty play either. I was rather pissed off right after that happened to Green but of course I wasn't posting then.

I don't find either play overly dirty even though I'd consider Palmers injury more severe.

MVChiefFan
09-14-2006, 01:46 PM
I know that I've beat this dead horse and I'm extremely ticked that something hasn't been done disciplinary wise. However, the thing that makes me angry beyond belief is how no one and I mean no one from the Bengals paid for that on the field. All week I've just felt a little down on the Chiefs because of this. The last few years I've always screamed at the tv that the defense doesn't have a hair on their collective balls if they don't get pissed at teams running over them and stop someone. We all know how that has turned out. Now we see it again, except this time a SOB goes out of his way to KILL Trent and all anyone does is just stand around and look at each other. I would have destroyed somebody! Fines or suspensions be damned, heads would have rolled. I don't know, I've just lost some respect for our guys.

SPchief
09-14-2006, 01:48 PM
I know that I've beat this dead horse and I'm extremely ticked that something hasn't been done disciplinary wise. However, the thing that makes me angry beyond belief is how no one and I mean no one from the Bengals paid for that on the field. All week I've just felt a little down on the Chiefs because of this. The last few years I've always screamed at the tv that the defense doesn't have a hair on their collective balls if they don't get pissed at teams running over them and stop someone. We all know how that has turned out. Now we see it again, except this time a SOB goes out of his way to KILL Trent and all anyone does is just stand around and look at each other. I would have destroyed somebody! Fines or suspensions be damned, heads would have rolled. I don't know, I've just lost some respect for our guys.


I think the defense comes out this week with a collective chip on their shoulders.

tk13
09-14-2006, 01:48 PM
I don't find either play overly dirty even though I'd consider Palmers injury more severe.

You can't be serious. A head injury can kill you. Nobody dies from a blown out knee.

the Talking Can
09-14-2006, 01:48 PM
doesn't matter if it was dirty...it was illegal...

Mecca
09-14-2006, 01:49 PM
Are you really surprised? The Chiefs are a very soft pussified team. Did you watch them play much over the last few years? One bad thing happened it snowballed because they're to soft to overcome things. That's just how these players are.

Mecca
09-14-2006, 01:50 PM
You can't be serious. A head injury can kill you. Nobody dies from a blown out knee.

Ok.......I've had a concussion and I have knee problems...my best friend blew out his knee. There's more problems with the knee than there's ever been after the concussion so that's probably why I feel that way. I know that's just my opinion though.

Inspector
09-14-2006, 01:53 PM
First I thought it was kind of cool that other teams fans hang out here. Now I'm finding out the NFL has their own reps hanging out here too.

Hey, that's something. I doubt other teams message boards have one.

I wonder if the NFL is going to make a formal announcement about the rule change.

siberian khatru
09-14-2006, 01:59 PM
No autopsy, no foul.

vailpass
09-14-2006, 02:00 PM
I know that I've beat this dead horse and I'm extremely ticked that something hasn't been done disciplinary wise. However, the thing that makes me angry beyond belief is how no one and I mean no one from the Bengals paid for that on the field. All week I've just felt a little down on the Chiefs because of this. The last few years I've always screamed at the tv that the defense doesn't have a hair on their collective balls if they don't get pissed at teams running over them and stop someone. We all know how that has turned out. Now we see it again, except this time a SOB goes out of his way to KILL Trent and all anyone does is just stand around and look at each other. I would have destroyed somebody! Fines or suspensions be damned, heads would have rolled. I don't know, I've just lost some respect for our guys.

Is that how softball guy rolls?

Mecca
09-14-2006, 02:03 PM
Is that how softball guy rolls?

You better watch it, he'll throw beer cans and swear at you.

Iowanian
09-14-2006, 02:03 PM
I think the new village idiot got some bad dope.

Dartgod
09-14-2006, 02:07 PM
Ok.......I've had a concussion and I have knee problems...my best friend blew out his knee. There's more problems with the knee than there's ever been after the concussion so that's probably why I feel that way. I know that's just my opinion though.
Head injury does not necessarily = concussion. A shot like Trent took (with or without a helmet) could have easily turned anyone into Christopher Reeves for the rest of their short life.

MVChiefFan
09-14-2006, 02:09 PM
ROFL

I'm just sayin', we have no backbone whatsoever. Besides, how dare you guys make fun of a fine athletic institution like slow-pitch softball. Where guys past their prime get to live out their dreams and take home some of the finest trailer park trash groupies in modern day sports.

Logical
09-14-2006, 02:45 PM
We are never all going to agree on whether the hit deserved a fine or an ejection, but to call that hit a kill shot is ridiculous hyperbole to the extreme. If that was a kill shot then 40% of all hits in the NFL are kill shots. Shoulders into chests are one of the most common hits in football.

NewChief
09-14-2006, 02:50 PM
I don't find either play overly dirty even though I'd consider Palmers injury more severe.


That's moronic. A knee injury isn't life threatening. Believe me, I shared the experience of both of Trent's injuries, and the head injury was way, way more scary at the time. The implications of the head injury are also way scarier.

Brock
09-14-2006, 02:57 PM
We are never all going to agree on whether the hit deserved a fine or an ejection, but to call that hit a kill shot is ridiculous hyperbole to the extreme. If that was a kill shot then 40% of all hits in the NFL are kill shots. Shoulders into chests are one of the most common hits in football.

Well, I'm sure we're going to see some unnecessary roughness penalties that won't even be close to the severity of what happened to Green. I'm also certain that if the Chiefs are called for it, you'll say they deserved to be penalized for it. It's just your nature.

DJJasonp
09-14-2006, 03:15 PM
The fact of the matter (to those of you who are defending the hit as legal) and brushing off us chiefs fans as being homers....

I would have thought it deserved a flag and/or ejection even if it was Plummer or Manning (who I hate as much as anything in life).....

For these bozos who keep saying he was pushed by Kennison....get real....do some physics work....there's no way Kennison caused the velocity and force that Geathers put on Trent by LOWERING HIS ELBOW AND HEAD...

Geathers could have easily did a superman dive and put his arms up in the air and dove completely over him....bottom line is...Geathers saw an opportunity to do some damage to the QB....and did it.

I'm not saying he couldnt avoid landing on him....but he sure as hell could have avoided driving into him and driving his head into the ground using his forearm.

Logical
09-14-2006, 05:16 PM
Well, I'm sure we're going to see some unnecessary roughness penalties that won't even be close to the severity of what happened to Green. I'm also certain that if the Chiefs are called for it, you'll say they deserved to be penalized for it. It's just your nature.If you would use the search function you would find many calls that have went against the Chiefs I have been upset about. I call them as I actually see them.

Calcountry
09-14-2006, 05:27 PM
We are never all going to agree on whether the hit deserved a fine or an ejection, but to call that hit a kill shot is ridiculous hyperbole to the extreme. If that was a kill shot then 40% of all hits in the NFL are kill shots. Shoulders into chests are one of the most common hits in football.BRILLIANT!!1

Calcountry
09-14-2006, 05:28 PM
If you would use the search function you would find many calls that have went against the Chiefs I have been upset about. I call them as I actually see them.That search took 2 hours 24 minutes and 14.3 seconds.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-14-2006, 05:33 PM
Mecca, I'd much rather get shot in the knee than in the head, but maybe I'm just retarded :shrug:

vailpass
09-14-2006, 05:46 PM
ROFL

I'm just sayin', we have no backbone whatsoever. Besides, how dare you guys make fun of a fine athletic institution like slow-pitch softball. Where guys past their prime get to live out their dreams and take home some of the finest trailer park trash groupies in modern day sports.

LMAO :toast:

ChiefFan31
09-14-2006, 06:51 PM
Time to break in the ignore feature + 2

I cant stand reading that crap anymore

mikey23545
09-14-2006, 07:31 PM
We are never all going to agree on whether the hit deserved a fine or an ejection, but to call that hit a kill shot is ridiculous hyperbole to the extreme. If that was a kill shot then 40% of all hits in the NFL are kill shots. Shoulders into chests are one of the most common hits in football.

Shoulders into the chests <i>of sliding quarterbacks</i> are among the most <i>uncommon</i> hits in football, you moron.

Skip Towne
09-14-2006, 07:52 PM
A columnist in todays Tulsa World called the hit an obvious penalty. It's not just us that think that.

orange
09-16-2006, 11:00 PM
Dr. Z Backpedals
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/09/14/week1/index.html

"What I saw was a fercocious blow at high speed. Could Geathers have avoided it? Probably, but he'd have had to twist his body in an unnatural way. Was it his obligation to go through contortions, just to avoid making contact with a guy who did, actually, hit the canvas at the last moment? I can only put myself in his place. Would I have? No. So what's with the holy-holy stuff, when it was pointed out by a few of my friends who phoned me that I, myself, was far from a model citizen on the greensward. Perhaps I was hasty in my rabid denunciation, because the result was so horrific. Perhaps. And that's as far as I'm willing to go at this time."

buddha
09-16-2006, 11:03 PM
There is no doubt that if the same thing happened to Peyton Manning, they would be holding Congressional hearings about it right now! Of course it was cheap and late. What is shocking is how little the NFL cares. And ANYBODY who thinks Kennison caused any part of that is a moron.

Logical
09-16-2006, 11:24 PM
Shoulders into the chests of sliding quarterbacks are among the most uncommon hits in football, you moron.You are the moron, it was clear I was not limiting my statement to QBs. Frankly a QB should be able to take a hit to the chest as well or better than almost any other player as that is how most solid sacks occur and it is not a penalty if no slide is involved.