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View Full Version : Mitch Holthus weekly talk on KXNO


htismaqe
09-15-2006, 09:11 AM
I wouldn't normally post these since they're usually about HS football and pizza, but he said some rather earth-shattering stuff this morning...

1) Trent Green's injury is much more serious than people think. Mitch talked like Trent could be out until late October.

2) The Chiefs will not be trading for a QB because they want their draft picks. Mitch said he might as well make it official - Herm is going to rebuild this team.

3) The period of debating about this offense is over. Herm wasn't lying when he said he wasn't going to touch the offense, but that was before last weekend when Solari continued to run min-protect passing sets after giving up consecutive sacks. The offense is going to change.

Donger
09-15-2006, 09:14 AM
F*ck.

ChiefsfaninPA
09-15-2006, 09:15 AM
#1 is the most troubling. But I guess that is to be expected when you take a shot to the head. As far as Herm changing the offense, he needs to if that means LJ touches the ball more. I don't see anything negative in this.

DaFace
09-15-2006, 09:16 AM
Ouch. Normally, I'd keep up hope but Mitch is about as credible source there is, IMO.

hawkchief
09-15-2006, 09:18 AM
I still believe that there is a greater chance that Trent will retire than play again. I hope I'm wrong.

htismaqe
09-15-2006, 09:20 AM
I guess my only heartburn is with #2.

If they're gonna finally do this, I'd prefer it be without Herm and Carl in charge...

DMAC
09-15-2006, 09:21 AM
Come on Huard!!

:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

Chiefnj
09-15-2006, 09:23 AM
Well, we all hoped deep down the O could continue and Herm could tweak the D and the Chiefs remain competitive and have a shot this year.

Like the great D's of the 90's that have gone to waste, so has the great O of the early 2000's. It's a shame.

Saunders was able to overcome the loss of Welbourn and Roaf last year, I'm not sure why Solari can't do the same especially since the O line is his forte. There were some ugly plays when the starters were out in 2005, but never anything as bad as last week. If there is one thing Solari should be able to do is manage the OL. Scrapping the entire scheme seems drastic, but oh well.

I don't blame Herm. He came into a situation where the window was closing and the ice cracking. I do have doubts on his ability to build a team from scratch, especially with the present coaching staff.

It's kind of an odd situation. They kept Solari so they could continue the old O. Now they are forced to abandon it. Will they keep Solari? If it is a complete rebuild does Herm still want Gun?

MOhillbilly
09-15-2006, 09:23 AM
I guess my only heartburn is with #2.

If they're gonna finally do this, I'd prefer it be without Herm and Carl in charge...


no shit- rebuild the rebuild when theyre gone.

GoHuge
09-15-2006, 09:26 AM
Thank God! That is what I have been screaming about all week long. Somebody needs to do something about the playcalling. ALot of people here think Solari called a good game, I don't and apparently Mitch feels the same way. Shorten the drops, bring in another TE, something. Don't keep running the same thing over and over if your QB is getting hurried, sacked, run out of the pocket, or KO'd every time you call it. Just look at Trent's last drive. It wasn't working, make adjustments.

Dear Coach Solari,

Willie Roaf is retired (he mentioned it again yesterday), Jordan Black sucks, the left tackle hasn't played in two years, and T-Rich is gone. Seven and five step drops are not an option. Don't keep running the same play over and over when you see it fail time and time again. A screen or check down to LJ might be a good idea. Just sprinkle it in. Keep'em guessing. You didn't call a screen to LJ until the third quarter. He showed that when he gets the ball in his hands good things happen (5 catches for 80yds). Maybe your still saving him, but you might want to get him going sometime soon. Herm says he's a pretty good "player" and you saw what he can do when you where the O-Line coach. Preseason is over. All these games your playing count now. Not bustin your balls coach...just an FYI. Open the choke, pull the cord, and fire it up. It's time to go.

the Talking Can
09-15-2006, 09:27 AM
season is over

Skip Towne
09-15-2006, 09:28 AM
I'm really beginning to wonder about Solari. The man forgets the down and distance in critical situations.

MOhillbilly
09-15-2006, 09:29 AM
I'm really beginning to wonder about Solari. The man forgets the down and distance in critical situations.


a well schooled madden player could beat him head2head in his play calling.

DMAC
09-15-2006, 09:31 AM
I'm really beginning to wonder about Solari. The man forgets the down and distance in critical situations.I still don't think that is what happened.

Blame Game.

old_geezer
09-15-2006, 09:32 AM
I'm really beginning to wonder about Solari. The man forgets the down and distance in critical situations.

The Peter Principal at work. Solari is a great O-line coach; out of his league at O-co-ordinator.

Bowser
09-15-2006, 09:33 AM
We're cooked.

jiveturkey
09-15-2006, 09:35 AM
It's too bad but not unexpected.

If we're going to rebuild then there isn't much of a reason to ruch Trent back.

morphius
09-15-2006, 09:37 AM
Solari calls one bad game and people are ready to hang him. You should at least give the guy a chance, sheesh.

As long as Carl is here there will not be a true rebuild. Sure we will have to rebuild parts of the O, but we have 4 QB's on the roster who know our offense, once we get to Printers there is no real reason to go out and trade from some crappy backup.

Green out for that long is scary, we will have to cross our fingers and hope that it will be safe for him to come back sooner.

Reerun_KC
09-15-2006, 09:38 AM
season is over


Everyone knew that the minute they hired Herm. No news here....

Rebuild this team with Herm.. Why the F*** do we have to deal with Carl and Herm. This is getting sickening!

PRIEST
09-15-2006, 09:39 AM
I guess my only heartburn is with #2.

If they're gonna finally do this, I'd prefer it be without Herm and Carl in charge...

I would have to agree, If we have to rebuild :(

htismaqe
09-15-2006, 09:42 AM
Everyone knew that the minute they hired Herm. No news here....

Rebuild this team with Herm.. Why the F*** do we have to deal with Carl and Herm. This is getting sickening!

Seriously dude. If you want peopel to take your opinions seriously, you need to stop acting like a joke...

boogblaster
09-15-2006, 09:46 AM
Well losing Al hurt us more than losing Dicky V. If Herm is truly going to rebuild and Green is out for multiple games..play the kids.. they at least have the speed on D..and give our QBOTF some snaps too....

OnTheWarpath58
09-15-2006, 09:50 AM
Not that it matters, but I'm guessing that Mitch was the "source close to the Chiefs" in the SI article "Quarterback Upheaval" this week.

Green's severe concussion will keep him out indefinately (a source close to the Chiefs on Monday said late October is a realistic return date) , ending his streak of 81 consecutive starts....."

Could just be coincidence, but to hear a target of late October twice in two days......

Either way, not much of a surprise to me regarding Trent. I'll be happy if he's healthy enough to come back at any point of the season.

DMAC
09-15-2006, 09:51 AM
..and give our QBOTF some snaps too....Not a good idea right now.....BOOG....

He is our QBOTF. So we need him for the future ya know. Let's upgrade the line first, or at least get it running a little better before we throw that 120 pounder in there.

BigChiefFan
09-15-2006, 10:33 AM
How exactly did Solari cause 3 turnovers?

He should share in the blame, but placing it all at his feet after one game is senseless. He KNOWS this offense and some think he's in over his head. It's laughable that so many are calling for his head on a platter after one game. Get a grip.

SDChief
09-15-2006, 10:34 AM
Something to consider: if Huard plays decent and the offese starts to click, and we win a lot of games, do you go back to green half way into the season? I know that Green has a ton more ability than Huard, but if the offese is scaled down and Huard runs it effectively, do we bring Green in with his "attack" mentality? It is a bit different, but it could almost turn into the same situation as Gannon/Grbac. Now I'm not saying Green is Grbac, or Huard is Gannon, but with things scaled down, Huard may have success. If we're winning it could be tough to change it up in the middle of the season.

Iowanian
09-15-2006, 10:36 AM
I'm not ready to hang this season up just yet.

If....If...it comes to the point that its accepted that its time to rebuild the team....don't sign 88 to a long term contract....trade him now and pick up a couple of draft picks.

Reerun_KC
09-15-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm not ready to hang this season up just yet.

If....If...it comes to the point that its accepted that its time to rebuild the team....don't sign 88 to a long term contract....trade him now and pick up a couple of draft picks.

Might not be a bad idea? you might get a 2nd and 3rd for him...

But I would like to see 88 retire in a chiefs uniform.

cdcox
09-15-2006, 10:44 AM
3) The period of debating about this offense is over. Herm wasn't lying when he said he wasn't going to touch the offense, but that was before last weekend when Solari continued to run min-protect passing sets after giving up consecutive sacks. The offense is going to change.


I would expect it to change after losing 2 of the 3 most critical players (LJ being the other).

We absolutely have to establish the run. Without a credible running game, there is absolutely no hope that passing will be effective. We need to get Bennett into the flow so that we don't burn LJ up.

In the passing game, we are going to have to keep more people in to block. We have to rely on playaction to take shots down the field. All dink and dunk will make it awfully croweded near the LOS as the safeties cheat up. Use LJ as a reciever, he can make things happen after he catches it. Gonzo is still a great target; we have to make more use of him than we did last year.

I hope we preserve the motion and the idea of creating match up problems. I hope we continue to run sweeps with our linemen pulling and blocking in space.

We can't get too predictable, though. That means passing at least 40% of the time on first down.

MichaelH
09-15-2006, 10:44 AM
Just a thought here but what if Huard is to Trent this year what Kurt Warner was to Trent in 1999? :hmmm:

Far fetched, maybe but if the defense stiffens up and the running game gets going I think he might be alright.

Reerun_KC
09-15-2006, 10:47 AM
Just a thought here but what if Huard is to Trent this year what Kurt Warner was to Trent in 1999? :hmmm:

Far fetched, maybe but if the defense stiffens up and the running game gets going I think he might be alright.


Regardless, it is CHIEFS football! And there isnt much of anything better win or lose, than watching the Chiefs.

cdcox
09-15-2006, 10:47 AM
Something to consider: if Huard plays decent and the offese starts to click, and we win a lot of games, do you go back to green half way into the season? I know that Green has a ton more ability than Huard, but if the offese is scaled down and Huard runs it effectively, do we bring Green in with his "attack" mentality? It is a bit different, but it could almost turn into the same situation as Gannon/Grbac. Now I'm not saying Green is Grbac, or Huard is Gannon, but with things scaled down, Huard may have success. If we're winning it could be tough to change it up in the middle of the season.

I'm going to print this post out, just so I can set it on fire.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-15-2006, 10:51 AM
Anything can happen, but I think it's over this year.

I'm still going to watch the games, though. I love it!!!

Chiefnj
09-15-2006, 10:58 AM
I'm still not sure why the offense has to change, or what exactly is meant by it.

In 2005 both starting tackles missed games (10 games combined). AS was able to tweak his system and still score points (for the most part). It wasn't always pretty and the offense wasn't as potent as when healthy, but was still somewhat effective overall.

When there is talk about it changing now, what has to change. In 2005 LJ carried the ball a hell of a lot. Saying the Chiefs are going to run the ball more now isn't really a change from last year. As Herm would say that is perception vs. reality.

Obviously they have to work on better protection packages and execution, but a wholesale change in the offense once the season has begun is foolish. You impliment changes in the system in the offseason, not midseason.

MVChiefFan
09-15-2006, 10:59 AM
In my opinion there's NO rebuilding in pro football. With a hard salary cap in place and everyone on a more level playing field there is no reason to scrap everything and start all over. Now, that's not saying you can't infuse younger players in with veterans but all this "getting rid of everybody for draft picks" talk is unfounded. This isn't the Royals we're talking about here. There is no reason not to go into a season competetive year in and year out.

TEX
09-15-2006, 11:07 AM
Wow, we junk the offense becasue the front office and coaching staff couldn't see this coming and failed to get quality back ups after getting a prelude last year of what could happen if both starting tackles were out? That would KILL any team's offense. Seems to me you KEEP the PROVEN offense and take your lumps this year and then get a starting quality LT and RT (This RT might be on the team now if Sampson could be de-pu$$ified. Still with his history I wouldn't count on him) in the off season. That to me would be much easier. Espacially if we end up with a top 5 draft pick... :hmmm:

Wile_E_Coyote
09-15-2006, 11:13 AM
One game is not enough to judge the season on with so many coaching & personnel changes. Saunders didn't come in an experienced OC. Herm will be looking over Gun's shoulder unlike DV & the D looks much different personnel wise. Like Vanilla said anything can happen

Woodrow Call
09-15-2006, 11:14 AM
Regardless, it is CHIEFS football! And there isnt much of anything better win or lose, than watching the Chiefs.

Yep.

Its going to fun watching the youngsters on D mature and turn into a solid unit. At this point that is the main reason to watch IMO. Watching Hali, Allen, DJ, Kawika, Page, Pollard and hopefully Fox grow into the core of a dominate Chiefs D.

cdcox
09-15-2006, 11:19 AM
When there is talk about it changing now, what has to change. In 2005 LJ carried the ball a hell of a lot. Saying the Chiefs are going to run the ball more now isn't really a change from last year. As Herm would say that is perception vs. reality.


Last year we were almost completely balanced 50-50 run-pass. Teams like Denver and Pittsburgh were much more heavily based on the run. I expect we will move in that direction. Also, the passes will get shorter, but I think it is a mistake to abandon downfield passes altogether. You just have to pick your spots, and make sure the protection is good.

chief2000
09-15-2006, 11:25 AM
Oldgeezer.

It's the Oline. This team should have drafted one.

Hog Farmer
09-15-2006, 11:29 AM
I'm sick and tired of all this doom and gloom, Jesus Christ, it's one game, we do have a GOOD team and our coaches are not high school coaches. I still say we make the playoffs, I still say we give the Donkeys a good game and I'm even optimistic we can go in there and win. Damn you guys are depressing. Get a grip. It's a good thing you guys don't farm for a living!

Wile_E_Coyote
09-15-2006, 11:32 AM
the last two drafts have been really solid. The instant gratification needs to be leashed

morphius
09-15-2006, 11:34 AM
It's a good thing you guys don't farm for a living!

I'm damn glad I don't have to farm for a living as well. NTTIAWWT, just pretty brutal work.

morphius
Grandson of Dairy and Hog Farmers...

old_geezer
09-15-2006, 11:37 AM
I'm sick and tired of all this doom and gloom, Jesus Christ, it's one game, we do have a GOOD team and our coaches are not high school coaches. I still say we make the playoffs, I still say we give the Donkeys a good game and I'm even optimistic we can go in there and win. Damn you guys are depressing. Get a grip. It's a good thing you guys don't farm for a living!


It's a good thing you can watch the Chiefs to get your mind off of the problems. Hell, with the lack of rain your crops will all probably die anyway. :p

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 11:37 AM
I'm still not sure why the offense has to change, or what exactly is meant by it.You answered your own question.Obviously they have to work on better protection packages and execution.Which isn't a change, as you pointed out...
In 2005 both starting tackles missed games (10 games combined). AS was able to tweak his system and still score points (for the most part). It wasn't always pretty and the offense wasn't as potent as when healthy, but was still somewhat effective overall.Obviously what we tried last week didn't work, because the line couldn't handle it. So we adjust and try to find what does work...

Petro made a good point a few minutes ago too. If Turley's getting rag-dolled the way he was run over a few times last week, it might be time to start Svitek's clock at LT. Which come to think of it may be why he wasn't playing RT. Maybe they're keeping him working at LT because they're thinking it's a matter of time. (shrug, just a thought...)

Easy 6
09-15-2006, 11:39 AM
What Hog Farmer said.

alpha_omega
09-15-2006, 11:42 AM
Regardless, it is CHIEFS football! And there isnt much of anything better win or lose, than watching the Chiefs.

Post of the year!

DaFace
09-15-2006, 11:49 AM
I'm sick and tired of all this doom and gloom, Jesus Christ, it's one game, we do have a GOOD team and our coaches are not high school coaches. I still say we make the playoffs, I still say we give the Donkeys a good game and I'm even optimistic we can go in there and win. Damn you guys are depressing. Get a grip. It's a good thing you guys don't farm for a living!

:thumb:

jiveturkey
09-15-2006, 11:53 AM
Petro made a good point a few minutes ago too. If Turley's getting rag-dolled the way he was run over a few times last week, it might be time to start Svitek's clock at LT. Which come to think of it may be why he wasn't playing RT. Maybe they're keeping him working at LT because they're thinking it's a matter of time. (shrug, just a thought...)Svitek practiced at RT most of last week and was pulled on like Thursday. I've heard that we was getting beat like a drum in practice and I also heard that he jumped offsides during a goal line situation and Herm pulled him because of that.

HemiEd
09-15-2006, 11:53 AM
How exactly did Solari cause 3 turnovers?

He should share in the blame, but placing it all at his feet after one game is senseless. He KNOWS this offense and some think he's in over his head. It's laughable that so many are calling for his head on a platter after one game. Get a grip.

Exactly and I don't think he received any Offensive Pass interferance calls either. Good Gawd Almighty, the team was tight and trying way to hard IMO. I think they are going to be fine, it was only one game. Mistakes were made by a lot of players and apparantly at least a couple coachs.

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 11:57 AM
Svitek practiced at RT most of last week and was pulled on like Thursday. I've heard that we was getting beat like a drum in practice and I also heard that he jumped offsides during a goal line situation and Herm pulled him because of that.Must've looked awful to get pulled for Black.

HemiEd
09-15-2006, 11:57 AM
Get a grip. It's a good thing you guys don't farm for a living!
You were doing fine until you said that. I have been around a lot of farmers and never met one that was getting the right amount of rain. Either to much, or to little. ROFL

Cormac
09-15-2006, 12:08 PM
Must've looked awful to get pulled for Black.

I wish they'd just leave Svitek at LT where he played all NFLE season, leave Sampson at RT, and leave Black at Guard. That would be a start. It might be better to use Bober (yuck) as the stand-in utility guy, and at least allow the young guys to learn one position. They play like crap when they're constantly moved around on the line like that. Black had potential as a guard two years ago, now his confidence has to be shot. Anyway, JMO.

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 12:09 PM
I agree with that Cormac, that's what I was hoping.

dirk digler
09-15-2006, 12:20 PM
Wow the news just get keeps getting better and better. Herm is the last person I want trying to rebuild this team.

L.A. Chieffan
09-15-2006, 12:25 PM
I wish they'd just leave Svitek at LT where he played all NFLE season, leave Sampson at RT, and leave Black at Guard. That would be a start. It might be better to use Bober (yuck) as the stand-in utility guy, and at least allow the young guys to learn one position. They play like crap when they're constantly moved around on the line like that. Black had potential as a guard two years ago, now his confidence has to be shot. Anyway, JMO.

If they put Svitek at LT and Sampson at RT, we dont even need Black. What are you gonna do, sit Shields or Waters? Those are the only dependable guys we have on the line

TEX
09-15-2006, 12:34 PM
Wow the news just get keeps getting better and better. Herm is the last person I want trying to rebuild this team.

Exactly. :shake:

Woodrow Call
09-15-2006, 12:49 PM
Wow the news just get keeps getting better and better. Herm is the last person I want trying to rebuild this team.

I have seen this mentioned a few times in this thread and I would like to know why not Herm?

Most of our good young talent is on the defensive side of the ball which is his specialty. It seems like most coaches who are successful rebuilding have a defensive mindset. Herm likes young players and doesn't seem to have a problem with playing them and his drafts are usually solid.

Maybe I just like Herm and am too biased to see the reasons he wouldn't be a good coach to lead a rebuilding effort.

whoman69
09-15-2006, 01:00 PM
Well, we all hoped deep down the O could continue and Herm could tweak the D and the Chiefs remain competitive and have a shot this year.

Like the great D's of the 90's that have gone to waste, so has the great O of the early 2000's. It's a shame.

Saunders was able to overcome the loss of Welbourn and Roaf last year, I'm not sure why Solari can't do the same especially since the O line is his forte. There were some ugly plays when the starters were out in 2005, but never anything as bad as last week. If there is one thing Solari should be able to do is manage the OL. Scrapping the entire scheme seems drastic, but oh well.

I don't blame Herm. He came into a situation where the window was closing and the ice cracking. I do have doubts on his ability to build a team from scratch, especially with the present coaching staff.

It's kind of an odd situation. They kept Solari so they could continue the old O. Now they are forced to abandon it. Will they keep Solari? If it is a complete rebuild does Herm still want Gun?
I totally blame Herm. He laid down the law to Solari in the preseason when Solari called two shots at the end zone near the end of a half instead of maneuvering for a field goal. This team is going to be three yards and a cloud of dust if it kills us. Anyone who knows the math can figure out that it will kill us because it leaves us in 4th and 1. He will be even more conservative than Marty. Then again Marty had a top rank defense to depend on. This team is going to constantly give up 20-25 points a game even with the field position strategy. With the goal for the Chiefs no longer to try to score on every possession that makes it problematic.
I don't want to throw the depleted o-line excuse. We had plenty of games last year where Roaf was out in addition to the fact that Wellbourne was horrible in pass situations. The problem is the offense is predictable. We run when were expected to run and pass when were expected to pass. The defense knows just what to do, there is no second guessing for them.

JBucc
09-15-2006, 01:01 PM
So. ****.

Chiefnj
09-15-2006, 01:09 PM
I have seen this mentioned a few times in this thread and I would like to know why not Herm?

Most of our good young talent is on the defensive side of the ball which is his specialty. It seems like most coaches who are successful rebuilding have a defensive mindset. Herm likes young players and doesn't seem to have a problem with playing them and his drafts are usually solid.

Maybe I just like Herm and am too biased to see the reasons he wouldn't be a good coach to lead a rebuilding effort.


Typically rebuilding coaches are stricter guys who like to law down the law and work players hard. Herm is thought of as more of a coach who would do well with a veteran team - ala training camp being referred to as Camp Herm. Herm is reputed to give vets a break at camp and let them miss time, show up late, not question injuries,skip practice, etc.

tk13
09-15-2006, 01:10 PM
I can't say I'm surprised about Green. I'm not real confident in him coming back this year, I don't know why. That was just such a violent hit.

I don't have a problem with changing the offense up to accomodate Huard and our line, but my real concern is if the defense is good enough to play that style of football. I think we're better but we have to keep improving to be a top 5 D like a Pittsburgh or Denver.

Chiefnj
09-15-2006, 01:13 PM
I totally blame Herm. He laid down the law to Solari in the preseason when Solari called two shots at the end zone near the end of a half instead of maneuvering for a field goal. This team is going to be three yards and a cloud of dust if it kills us. Anyone who knows the math can figure out that it will kill us because it leaves us in 4th and 1. He will be even more conservative than Marty. Then again Marty had a top rank defense to depend on. This team is going to constantly give up 20-25 points a game even with the field position strategy. With the goal for the Chiefs no longer to try to score on every possession that makes it problematic.
I don't want to throw the depleted o-line excuse. We had plenty of games last year where Roaf was out in addition to the fact that Wellbourne was horrible in pass situations. The problem is the offense is predictable. We run when were expected to run and pass when were expected to pass. The defense knows just what to do, there is no second guessing for them.

There is no way you could have watched the first game and come to the conclusions that you did. I'm a Herm basher. Even I will admit, he was hands off on the offense in week 1. The playcalling was not in any way, shape or form typical Herm playcalling. It was aggressive. The Chiefs did not run when expected to run in week one.

Cormac
09-15-2006, 01:19 PM
If they put Svitek at LT and Sampson at RT, we dont even need Black. What are you gonna do, sit Shields or Waters? Those are the only dependable guys we have on the line

Don't worry, I'm not advocating putting Black at OG ahead of Waters or Shields, but he showed promise at OG in 2004. He needs to be told he can just focus on becoming a good guard, and spend all this practice time there. Shields is gone after this year. No doubt in my mind. Black might as well just try to become a worthy replacement between now and then. Then our depth chart for the rest of this year would be:

Turley, Svitek
Waters, Stallings (or whoever is there on the roster)
Wiegman, Niswanger
Shields, Black
Sampson, Bober

Bober is also the emergency utility guys, because if he ever plays it's a frigging emergency.

sedated
09-15-2006, 01:21 PM
Volek?

Mecca
09-15-2006, 01:22 PM
Don't worry, I'm not advocating putting Black at OG ahead of Waters or Shields, but he showed promise at OG in 2004. He needs to be told he can just focus on becoming a good guard, and spend all this practice time there. Shields is gone after this year. No doubt in my mind. Black might as well just try to become a worthy replacement between now and then. Then our depth chart for the rest of this year would be:

Turley, Svitek
Waters, Stallings (or whoever is there on the roster)
Wiegman, Niswanger
Shields, Black
Sampson, Bober

Bober is also the emergency utility guys, because if he ever plays it's a frigging emergency.

I really hope the Chiefs don't think the Tackles on their roster now are a solution to the offensive line problems.

dirk digler
09-15-2006, 01:25 PM
Typically rebuilding coaches are stricter guys who like to law down the law and work players hard. Herm is thought of as more of a coach who would do well with a veteran team - ala training camp being referred to as Camp Herm. Herm is reputed to give vets a break at camp and let them miss time, show up late, not question injuries,skip practice, etc.

Yep. I should have clarified my statement to include Carl in that as well.

dirk digler
09-15-2006, 01:26 PM
I really hope the Chiefs don't think the Tackles on their roster now are a solution to the offensive line problems.

For next year I hope not but we are stuck for this year unfortuntely.

Mecca
09-15-2006, 01:27 PM
Also if the Chiefs are really serious about getting younger and taking a different approach. Then every one of these guys should be gone after this year....

Knight
Wesley
Bell
Kennison
Bober

It'll be 50/50 on Law

Mecca
09-15-2006, 01:28 PM
For next year I hope not but we are stuck for this year unfortuntely.

Of course there's nothing that can be done about this year, I'm pretty much ready to mark this down as a lost year.

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 01:31 PM
Typically rebuilding coaches are stricter guys who like to law down the law and work players hard. Herm is thought of as more of a coach who would do well with a veteran team - ala training camp being referred to as Camp Herm. Herm is reputed to give vets a break at camp and let them miss time, show up late, not question injuries,skip practice, etc.That's not at all what I've heard. I've been led to believe that while his practices are shorter, they're run with more intensity and speed than Vermeil's. He will give vets a break, particularly the older ones, but that's not a Herm thing, that's a league-wide thing these days. And I've heard a number of times this offseason that he's a stickler for players showing up on time, that there were several guys on the roster who got away with being late in the past who've had to change (Dunn was one IIRC).

I wasn't there, though, so I have to go by what I read and hear on the radio...

the Talking Can
09-15-2006, 01:37 PM
Also if the Chiefs are really serious about getting younger and taking a different approach. Then every one of these guys should be gone after this year....

Knight
Wesley
Bell
Kennison
Bober

It'll be 50/50 on Law

yup...and Shields will retire and Hicks will quit out of shame...

Mecca
09-15-2006, 01:39 PM
yup...and Shields will retire and Hicks will quit out of shame...

I actually forgot to put Hicks on my list.......sometimes I think no matter what he's never going to go away.

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 01:40 PM
No new contract for Kennison or Gonzalez would be a sign, that's for sure. Reup LJ if he gets on track this season.

Mecca
09-15-2006, 01:43 PM
No new contract for Kennison or Gonzalez would be a sign, that's for sure. Reup LJ if he gets on track this season.

Gonzalez is gonna get a new contract whether they rebuild or not....he's one of Carls boys like LJ is now. He won't let him leave even if it might be the smarter move. However I'll be surprised if Kennison is on the team next year.

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 01:48 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Gonzalez staying, whatever the rationale. I like the idea of a HoF calibre player staying with a single franchise for his entire career. Call me hopelessly romantic.

morphius
09-15-2006, 01:55 PM
Call me hopelessly romantic.

That is not something I ever thought about calling you. But I agree, I like to see HoF players actually be able to stay in the city where they started, especially when they start in KC.

the Talking Can
09-15-2006, 02:06 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Gonzalez staying, whatever the rationale. I like the idea of a HoF calibre player staying with a single franchise for his entire career. Call me hopelessly romantic.

I too have womanly feelings for him...plus, TE's can play for a long time...Gonzo has 4-5 good years left, and a good TE is a new/young QB's best friend...whatever type of offense we develop there will be a place for Tony

Cormac
09-15-2006, 02:22 PM
I agree that we should keep Tony. He is beginning to decline, IMO, but he deserves to retire a Chief and I think that's important. Hopefully he won't cost too much.

Cormac
09-15-2006, 02:24 PM
I really hope the Chiefs don't think the Tackles on their roster now are a solution to the offensive line problems.

But we don't know yet. Tackles don't develop overnight. Especially not 7th round tackles. Sampson has to stay healthy and actually play. Svitek needs to learn the LT position and hopefully show enough that we don't have to invest a first rounder next year. Black might actually be a good OG if he wasn't moved around like a chess piece. JMO.

KCTitus
09-15-2006, 02:26 PM
If Trent is that bad off, they should get Croyle going...I dont mind the offense changing, it was soo bad on Sunday that even Marty's offenses looked good.

Hydrae
09-15-2006, 02:26 PM
I really hope the Chiefs don't think the Tackles on their roster now are a solution to the offensive line problems.

Actually, if Svitek can build on what he did in NFLE over the next year he should be able to be our LT. Then you look at Turley at RT. Draft someone late first day/early second day to learn at the tackle position and we should be ok. Not great maybe but then we have been spoiled for many, many years.

Mecca
09-15-2006, 02:27 PM
But we don't know yet. Tackles don't develop overnight. Especially not 7th round tackles. Sampson has to stay healthy and actually play. Svitek needs to learn the LT position and hopefully show enough that we don't have to invest a first rounder next year. Black might actually be a good OG if he wasn't moved around like a chess piece. JMO.

I'm going to level with you.....thinking a 6th and 7th round pick can be your starting tackles is well.......a really stupid idea. Tackle is a money position, if you have bad ones you will get your QB injured and have a bad offense. I'm all for trying to find Guards and Centers on the 2nd day but I just don't like that strategy with OT's. There's about a 1 in 100 shot of a 6th-7th round Tackle becoming a quality starter.

KCTitus
09-15-2006, 02:33 PM
...There's about a 1 in 100 shot of a 6th-7th round Tackle becoming a quality starter.

I'd say the odds are about as close in the first 3 rounds. 5% instead of 1%

HemiEd
09-15-2006, 02:40 PM
Of course there's nothing that can be done about this year, I'm pretty much ready to mark this down as a lost year.

After one game? Oh boy, we are doomed.

Mecca
09-15-2006, 02:44 PM
After one game? Oh boy, we are doomed.

You think the Chiefs are going to win games with bad Tackles and Green possibly missing 7-8 games? I thought they were going to go 7-9, 8-8 anyway that makes it worse....

KCTitus
09-15-2006, 02:49 PM
If Green doesnt come back for the game after the SF game, I'll be ready to write this season off and his career as pretty much over.

This could be a long 4 years...

Fish
09-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Of course there's nothing that can be done about this year, I'm pretty much ready to mark this down as a lost year.

You've seen less than 7% of the season and you're ready to mark it down as a lost year?

How depressing it must be to be that kind of fan......

HemiEd
09-15-2006, 02:53 PM
You think the Chiefs are going to win games with bad Tackles and Green possibly missing 7-8 games? I thought they were going to go 7-9, 8-8 anyway that makes it worse....

I think they are going to win games every time they take the field. I see no reason why we can't have a few things go our way. We have had more than our share go against us. IIRC Pitt did not start out to strong last year.

htismaqe
09-15-2006, 02:55 PM
FYI, I think I started a panic here.

Mitch didn't say they were SCRAPPING the offense.

They're just gonna start running the ball ALOT more.

KCTitus
09-15-2006, 02:57 PM
They're just gonna start running the ball ALOT more.

In 1999, Gun led the league in attempts with 525 or so, think Herm can beat that? It might take running on 3rd and long instead of an incomplete pass on 3rd and long, but it's possible.

Mecca
09-15-2006, 02:59 PM
You've seen less than 7% of the season and you're ready to mark it down as a lost year?

How depressing it must be to be that kind of fan......

Actually......it's easier for me to be a fan when I know the team isn't good. When I expect them to be good I get emotionally invested and get really really pissed off. When I'm not expecting much it doesn't make me near as mad when they lose games.

tk13
09-15-2006, 03:00 PM
In 1999, Gun led the league in attempts with 525 or so, think Herm can beat that? It might take running on 3rd and long instead of an incomplete pass on 3rd and long, but it's possible.
Pittsburgh ran the ball over 550 times last year... we have to get Bennett more involved. I think the real problem with that is having a defense as good as Pittsburgh's that'll get you off the field so you can pound them with your offense.

KCTitus
09-15-2006, 03:04 PM
Pittsburgh ran the ball over 550 times last year... we have to get Bennett more involved. I think the real problem with that is having a defense as good as Pittsburgh's that'll get you off the field so you can pound them with your offense.

This defense like all of the defenses KC's had in the past (including the 'good' ones) still suffer from the 3rd and long disease. Anytime they have a team in that situation it's almost automatic they convert the first down.

Fish
09-15-2006, 03:18 PM
Actually......it's easier for me to be a fan when I know the team isn't good. When I expect them to be good I get emotionally invested and get really really pissed off. When I'm not expecting much it doesn't make me near as mad when they lose games.

Well that's just silly...

You'd rather the team suck because it's easier for you to control your emotions that way? Sounds like you have some other issues that are preventing you from actually enjoying the game for what it is.

Do you have this outlook for other areas of your life or just football? I'm not trying to put you down here or anything, but it just seems like an unhappy way to go through life.

To each his own..... I just don't think you should have to lower your expectations to account for emotional involvement.

Are you drinking enough?? :shrug:
:bong: ?

Mecca
09-15-2006, 03:26 PM
Well that's just silly...

You'd rather the team suck because it's easier for you to control your emotions that way? Sounds like you have some other issues that are preventing you from actually enjoying the game for what it is.

Do you have this outlook for other areas of your life or just football? I'm not trying to put you down here or anything, but it just seems like an unhappy way to go through life.

To each his own..... I just don't think you should have to lower your expectations to account for emotional involvement.

Are you drinking enough?? :shrug:
:bong: ?

You took what I said completely wrong.......

HemiEd
09-15-2006, 03:38 PM
Actually......it's easier for me to be a fan when I know the team isn't good. When I expect them to be good I get emotionally invested and get really really pissed off. When I'm not expecting much it doesn't make me near as mad when they lose games.

The 98 playoff loss was the last time I let myself get too upset from this team getting screwed.
(the only way they ever lose is to be screwed)

Well wait, I was mad as hell last Sunday, but it won't happen again...

Count Alex's Wins
09-15-2006, 04:23 PM
Running the ball "more" doesn't equate to running it 600 times.

We could very well finish with something like 500 passes and 400 runs. If you shorten the game, you run fewer offensive plays.

runnercyclist
09-15-2006, 04:39 PM
If Trent is not back for week four, you are right the season is over. Play the yound guys and take your lumps.

ChiefFan31
09-15-2006, 04:46 PM
I'm sick and tired of all this doom and gloom, Jesus Christ, it's one game, we do have a GOOD team and our coaches are not high school coaches. I still say we make the playoffs, I still say we give the Donkeys a good game and I'm even optimistic we can go in there and win. Damn you guys are depressing. Get a grip. It's a good thing you guys don't farm for a living!

Rep, Rep, Rep!

The Doom and Gloom, God even with understanding it and even laughing sometimes....It still just gets to you...


No, things are not all rosy, but **** people. Get a hold of yourselves.

Dave Lane
09-15-2006, 05:37 PM
no shit- rebuild the rebuild when theyre gone.


All I hope is Herm gets fired first. Thats all I want for Xmas his head on a stick.

Dave

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-15-2006, 05:46 PM
Just a thought here but what if Huard is to Trent this year what Kurt Warner was to Trent in 1999? :hmmm:

Far fetched, maybe but if the defense stiffens up and the running game gets going I think he might be alright.

Why not just go all in on the flop against 4 of a kind? Sure you can get runner-runner for a straight flush, it's only 989-1....

Rausch
09-15-2006, 07:20 PM
FYI, I think I started a panic here.

Mitch didn't say they were SCRAPPING the offense.

They're just gonna start running the ball ALOT more.

Well, yeah.

Huard-able is dog$#it. That leaves us with only one option...

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 08:43 PM
Pittsburgh ran the ball over 550 times last year... we have to get Bennett more involved. Donnell "the dominator" Bennett is back?

Sweet!!

keg in kc
09-15-2006, 08:43 PM
Well, yeah.

Huard-able is dog$#it. That leaves us with only one option...He's no Todd Collins, that's for sure.

milkman
09-15-2006, 10:06 PM
WE'RE GLOOMED!!!!!!

milkman
09-15-2006, 10:07 PM
Didn't the Chiefs run the ball more than 500 times last season?

Deberg_1990
09-15-2006, 10:13 PM
I know we all love to complain about Herm so much but he did make the playoffs 3 times in 5 years with the Jets. Vermeil only made the playoffs once in his 5 years here. The point is, the high powered offense was great and all, but it didnt really get us anywhere. At this point, i dont mind Edwards changing things up a little.

CoMoChief
09-15-2006, 10:17 PM
I know we all love to complain about Herm so much but he did make the playoffs 3 times in 5 years with the Jets. Vermeil only made the playoffs once in his 5 years here. The point is, the high powered offense was great and all, but it didnt really get us anywhere. At this point, i dont mind Edwards changing things up a little.


I dont think the offense was to blame on why we didnt get into the playoffs during the DV era.