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TheFly
12-28-2000, 11:35 AM
A few weeks ago I caught my 14-year-old daughter kissing her "boyfriend"...
I warned her that it is not okay and that it better not happen again...
A week later, the boyfriend's mother catches them kissing but doesn't tell me...
A week later, my wife catches them kissing with heavy petting and does tell me...
Sheesh, I think, what am I going to do? 14 is too young!
So I talk to the both of them and say,
"Do you two wanna keep seeing each other?"
They reply, "Yes."
"Then cut the kissing and stuff out or else you're done."
My daughter later promised me she would do as I asked.
Last night my wife caught them kissing with heavy petting again.
And, of course, she tells me this as I'm going to bed.
So I call Katie out of her bed and bring her into our bedroom.
I confront her and she confirms that she did break the promise.
(Who knows how many times.)
I told her she screwed me and screwed herself.
That I was very hurt that I could no longer trust her.
I also told her she was through seeing the boy;
and the boy was not welcome in our house;
and there would be no further boy-girl social occasions
of any kind: parties, holidays, outings, or the like.
Lastly, that if it gets back to me that she is seeing the boy,
or any boy, behind my back and I find out there is kissing and
heavy petting going on, then I will immediately transfer her from
her school that very day.

Well, was I too hard? I feel like she has been lying to me all along.
What would you have done?

The Fly is Flattened...<P>

Mark M
12-28-2000, 11:46 AM
Fly--
You can't protect her always and forever, dude. Maybe try explaining why you don't want her doing those kind of things. Being "too young" is not a reason...STD's, unwanted pregnancy (assuming it goes that far, which I'm sure is what you're trying to prevent) bad reputation, etc. are reasons. Instead of just telling her not to, explain it to her. I don't see kissing as bad...it's fun and kids are going to do stuff like that at that age.

And I'm just trying to help you out here. My daughter is only 8 and, even though I don't live with her, I'm fearing the day I have to talk with her about this stuff. It seems a long way off, but it'll be here before I know it.

Just don't throw fried chicken at her beau. :D

MM
~~Trying to help another over-protective father like me!

------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

redhed
12-28-2000, 11:46 AM
Well, I don't have any kids so take this with a grain, if you will. I think 14 IS too young. Lay down the law until she' 16. I have a little sister, and I was kind of a jerk when it came to her boyfriends. But, it's going to happen eventually. But 14 is too young to be dating. 16 is kinda young too, but when they start driving, it's harder to look out for them.
My first reaction was that you were a little harsh, but she was warned a coupla times. I don't know if I'd transfer the kid, though.
I hope you were serious about it, because you have to be prepared to go all the way with the punishment. Otherwise, it's just an empty threat.

rh :mad:
purveyor of mediocre advice...<BR>

Mark M
12-28-2000, 11:49 AM
Deleted this...wasn't really on the topic.

MM
~~Trying to focus on The Fly's fatherhood.

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-28-2000).]

TheFly
12-28-2000, 11:55 AM
Having the kiss didn't bother me so much... It was the next step with the heavy petting and touching in places where I'd rather they didn't... That really pushed it for me...

I have explained about STD's and pregnancy and not screwing up your life for a moment's thrill... But I guess I'm just a dad who knows nothing...

She broke her promise... And at 14 heavy petting is a definite no-no...<P>

MrBlond
12-28-2000, 11:57 AM
Fly,
You are in a no-win situation. If you try to be a "friend" to your daughter you may be silently condoning this behavior. If you try to hold on to tight you risk her rebelling against you and going behind your back. IMHO, you did the right thing. I think it is better to be safe than sorry. As parents we can't control everything but we can try.

ROYC75
12-28-2000, 11:58 AM
FLY

I can only speak of my exp. with my 2 girls...To harsh,maybe,use a dif approach like,OK all visits are at your home and supervised,no dating,her funtions need to be supervised till she can show respect!
With our girls,when we put the foot down,we didn't watch them when they where away from us. Kids will sneak...we all know that,you must make it harder for them not to be alone...seperating them is unfair,I know it is your girl,been throu that myself,just limit the time for them,show her you feel for her feelings too!

As far as the lying...that pisses me off too,tell her it does,but give here some of her freedom too...yes 14 is young...all parents are protective of the kids,thru exp. with 3 of our 4,I feel that this approach will get them to trust you and you can trust them too,it worked better for us after we did this than try'n to be harsh and bold with them........GOOD LUCK!




[This message has been edited by ROYC75 (edited 12-28-2000).]

ct
12-28-2000, 12:01 PM
I absolutely agree with Mark M on this one. I'd never tell you how to raise your kids, nor would I have the patience to let you tell me how to raise mine(hell my girl is only 3 and I'm dreading the day).

But I think you overreacted BIG TIME! Forbidding her to do ANYTHING will pretty much assure she'll do it. The threats, in my humble opinion, will get you nowhere. Explaining to her why may not either, but I think you'll have a much better shot.

Keep in mind what YOU were like as a teen. Kids WILL do what they want most of the time, whether Mom & Dad approve or not. Better to prepare them than forbid them.

ct

[This message has been edited by coryt (edited 12-28-2000).]

Mark M
12-28-2000, 12:02 PM
Fly--
Hey, if she won't do what you ask, you gotta do what you gotta do. Just try to do it in a way that won't make her resent your actions. My wife was raised in a very strict household, and, once they determined that she could date (at 17) she went a little nuts (no pun intended).

She wasn't a whore or anything, but she dated some real losers just to get back at her folks (or so she thought). It wound up hurting her more than them.

And all 14 year old kids think their parents don't know squat. Perhaps you have a personal story you could share with her on why she should wait. It doesn't have to be about you...hell, it doesn't even have to be real. Just something she can relate to and that she can accept.

I'm positive you'll make the right moves. You obviously love her very much and want the best for her. Good luck!

MM
~~Glad he has another 6 years or so to plan for this!

------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

Bricky
12-28-2000, 12:03 PM
I can take a lot of bad behavior from my kids if it is the first time. If I tell them to stop and they dont' stop I lay down the law. If they lie, then all hell breaks loose. I can't stand lying. Their punishment is worse if I catch them lying.

Telling her that it is not appropriate is the right thing to do. How does your wife feel about the punishment? Changing schools may be bit harsh. After an being grounded for a time, let her see the boy, but only with adult supervision.


How did she manage to get caught so many times?

morphius
12-28-2000, 12:07 PM
Roy - Sounds like some very good advice. I would probably ground her for lying to me, but that is just me. Supervised visits seems to make sense to me, especially at that age.

Phobia
12-28-2000, 12:08 PM
Fly,

Don't alienate her. You can't control her the way you are trying to. I think you'd be best not allowing these things to bother you because it's just going to cause her to rebel. You're screwed either way but you can't keep her from seeing a boyfriend. That just strengthens their bond and weakens whatever is left of what you had with your daughter. Don't make any situation seem hopeless to a child because they will take drastic action. Sometimes even hurting themselves. Dude - I said it the last time and I'll say it now - you and your family need professional help. Get some, soon!

NaptownChief
12-28-2000, 12:20 PM
Fly,

Good to see you are a concerned and caring parent, but being over-restrictive is going to get you a very rebellious daughter. Nothing short of a chaste belt and a cage is going to get you the desired result. But that will come with a lot of negative side effects.

IMO the only way you are going to get her to respect and see your side of things is if she believes what you are saying to be reasonable...Although no loving father likes to think about some snot-nosed punk cramming his tongue down his daughters throat, the reality is that is pretty much the norm at 14 and your daughter knows that. For you to tell her that is off limits immediately sends up a red flag in her mind that you are not being reasonable. So if your opinion is contradictory in the areas that she is very familiar with ie:kissing, then she is possibly going to be confused about your thoughts and opinions on the much more serious matters that you are definitely wanting to avoid. I recommend you compromise on the small issues, kissing, and then when you have the discussion about it being inappropriate to go farther she is much more likely to honor and respect that opinion.

TheFly
12-28-2000, 12:30 PM
Well, I have to say I've never been the parent of a teenager before... It was a lot easier when she was 7!

I realize kissing is gonna happen. I realize that petting, sooner or later will happen. I just want to delay it as much as possible. For her good as well as my peace of mind.

She's been a good kid all her life. I give her a lot of rope because I trust her and she has always honored that trust.

But now nothing seems to get through to her concerning her boyfriend. Go slow. No petting. Here's the reasons... It's all blah, blah, blah...

What am I supposed to do? Just let it go? She made me a promise and then she broke it. There must be some consequences for that. She has lied to me concerning her boyfriend numerous times now. Why? I haven't laid the hammer on her for it? I've counseled her and set ground rules. And they've all been broken.

I admit changing schools is a little harsh. But I have to get her attention. She needs to realize how important her choices and decisions are, and how they affect her life and others...

What else can I do? She lied straight up and was caught? And broke a promise to boot...<P>

ROYC75
12-28-2000, 12:34 PM
Fly

If you want to talk..man I can give you some stories on my 2 girls and 1 boy that have grown up,take it,see if it come to play on your situation......800-685-5696..at work now,call if you want to!

[This message has been edited by ROYC75 (edited 12-28-2000).]

Phobia
12-28-2000, 12:37 PM
You are right, she has to pay for her actions. Might I suggest grounding, reduced/withheld allowance, no new clothes, being required to brown bag lunch (kids hate that), etc. She can't lie & get away with it. However, she felt she had to lie for a reason. She didn't feel like she could discuss it with you & your wife & get your blessing. You need to open the gates of communication but understand that it won't happen overnight. Restricting the boyfriend will get you nothing but resentment & rebellion. Counseling is key. Also, it's never too early to have a session with planned parenthood & a talk about birth control. I sense you would hit the ceiling if you became Grandpa George as young as you must be.

Mi_chief_fan
12-28-2000, 12:38 PM
Fly,
Get a grip. You call it 'lying', and I call it 'nature.' Kids are gonna kiss. Tell them no, and they'll swear they'll stop, but once their together, they always cave to peer pressure. I wish I had some better advice, and I don't know anything about you or your daughter, but if she's responsible, your gonna have to trust her.

Remember, if her 'boyfriend' is also 14, chances are he's doing the same thing she is: experimenting. Don't hold it against the kid. At least it's not a 'girlfriend.'

Phobia
12-28-2000, 12:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Well, I have to say I've never been the parent of a teenager before... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps not, but you HAVE been a teenager with parents before. Try to reflect upon what made you tick as a teenager. What caused you to rebel or honor your parents wishes. My parents allowed me to do NOTHING & gave me ZERO trust or respect. I responded by rebelling beyond their worst nightmare.

ct
12-28-2000, 12:48 PM
Ditto KPhobia, precisely what I did!!
And make no mistake about it, a teenage boy rebelling has far less consequences than the alternative!

Also keep in mind, you could be looking at far worse than 'heavy petting'. All is not lost, it's not too late to intervene.

ct

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 12:49 PM
rough situation.

I think that the word "forbid" will cause you alot of greif in the end...From what i can remember, the girls with the best "heads on their shoulders" were the ones with open relationships with their moms and dads...the preacher was always the strictest, and the preacher's daughter rep usually proved true...

I say back off a little, take a deep breath and deal with it logically...let her see the boy, but monitor the situation for a while...letting them watch movies after you go to bed etc..is begging for trouble...

I've been dating a gal who at 14 was date raped after allowing some "heavy petting" by a 18 year old boyfriend...she had a baby and gave it up for adoption, knowing she wasn't ready to give it a good life...she and i both "deal" with that situation pretty regularly...especially after I ran into the guy in a bar in her town alone a while back....i'm the bad guy now, but thats a different story..

14 and 15 year old girls "know it all"...I don't think she will hear the words you say, even if she is listening....If you know an underage single mother who you trust, let your daughter follow her around for a day and night and see how much "fun" the results can be...maybe someone else can get through to her while she is changing a $h!tty diaper instead of at a party with her friends.


fwiw, I have 2 brothers and 1 sister, we were very very protective, and my sis resented us for a couple of years,....we just knew about guys....now she admits we were right and is marrying a guy we all approve of.
good luck man

TheFly
12-28-2000, 12:49 PM
Like you, KPhobia, my parents were super-harsh, gave me nothing but restrictions, and when I was old enough, I left home for good.

I was never a "bad" kid. Had good grades, stayed out of trouble. Still no respect and no trust.

I try to make sure my daughter has those opportunities that I never had. The only requirement: trust and honesty. When that gets violated, then what am I supposed to do?<BR>

NaptownChief
12-28-2000, 12:56 PM
Fly,

You are not dealing with a little girl anymore...You are dealing with a very young lady, but a lady nonetheless...So that means you are now dealing the emotional package that comes with it...Rational thought and logic go out the window when emotions kick in. Women can justify wrong doing if they feel it is the right thing to do emotionally. That does not make ok for her to be dishonest but that just makes her normal...I'm sure you have ran into this a time or two with old girlfriends and or your wife...We all have..

Phobia
12-28-2000, 12:59 PM
You have to realize that teenagers are going to do what they are going to do no matter what we as parents say, generally speaking. This should be in no way construed as advice because I have no idea if it works or not:

I intend to tell my children that I understand that there will be pressures to drink, do drugs, & have sex. I'm going to discourage them from participating in those activities until they are a more responsible age but if they do, it's not the end of the world. They are going to understand that they can feel free to discuss these things without fear with me and certainly they should contact me if they do become drunk/high or if their driver does so that I can safely transport them to their home.

Additionally, if a child has so much stuff to do that they don't have time for the distractions mentioned herein, the chances they succumb to these pressures are reduced. Encourage participation in EVERY club/team/event they express interest in even if it's inconvenient for you (transportation or financially).

Here's a story from my youth.... I was relatively popular but rebelled when I was 16-17. I started hanging with the wrong crowd for a time and dabbled in Pot & a few other drugs. After about a month, my other friends noticed changes in me and applied a little reverse peer pressure. They didn't want anything to do with me if I was more interested in getting high all the time. My interest in drugs waned & everything worked out.... Best of luck in whatever you decide, George. I still think y'all need professional intervention and there is no shame in that!

redhed
12-28-2000, 01:00 PM
Fly: You should explain to your daughter why trust and honesty are important to you. Maybe then she'll understand why this is such a big deal. I don't think your daughter believes she's done anything wrong. (lying, not kissing and petting) Explain that your trust in her has diminished.

I know when my parents forbade me to do something, it was a challenge to me to see if I could do it w/o getting caught.

I think the supervised contact approach is the best way to go here. Don't eliminate the boyfriend completely. Make sure the boy's family knows where you stand, too.

rh :mad:
dreading the day I have kids (esp. girls) :eek:<BR>

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 01:11 PM
Fly - One thing that might affect the advice given is an enumeration of what exactly you want to forestall. The lying is a given. I'm gonna assume that the big I [and the attendant risk of pregnancy and disease] is as well. In addition, are you opposed to the forming of inappropriate emotional bonds? The danger of distraction from other, scholarly pursuits? The potential for depression and loss of self-esteem following the 'end of the affair?' The very idea of physical contact? Other concerns?

Both I and my parents were fortunate in my teen years. They were fortunate in that I had a clear idea of what I wanted to do with my life and how far I could go [socially] before I would mortally risk those goals. I was fortunate in that they knew this about me. Thus I was able to escape the 'teens with [at least] my share of 'heavy petting' and all that kind of fun with no interference from the 'rents, while still getting decent grades and scholarships to a good university, and no babies, STDs or other scars or stigma.
Before you can form a coherent approach to your problem, you would be well served to set out clearly in your own mind what barriers you don't what crossed and why.

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Encourage participation in EVERY club/team/event they express interest in even if it's inconvenient for you (transportation or financially). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There are positives and negatives in even that approach. I was quite active in extracurriculars and it kept me away from the ditchin' school, smokin' dope crowd. But that's also where the 'heavy petting' and other intergender social interaction occured. In fact, many of my extracurriculars were determined by the 'quality of tail' in that crowd.

NaptownChief
12-28-2000, 01:15 PM
Fly,

I will give you a couple personal stories why you need to compromise. I was a pretty active early teen. I can tell you with no uncertainty that my best luck and quickest score always came from the girls who had very restrictive parents. Knowing that their parents were so restrictive about the "boy issues" they knew their opportunity for interaction would be very limited so they felt they had to seize the opportunity when it was presented...Being young, dumb and full of cum I didn't always make the most intelligent decisions when it came to getting some action. The two girls that I dated with the most restrictive parents, I was able to get them to regularly slip out the bedroom window on school night so that I could knock the backside out of them...They felt like if they got caught they really didn't have much to lose...I never had any luck getting the girls with more liberal parents to sneak out cause they were afraid of losing their freedom...

So keep that in mind and hopefully you won't have some jerk like me lowering your daughter from her bedroom window.

Good Luck



[This message has been edited by jl80 (edited 12-28-2000).]

Phobia
12-28-2000, 01:15 PM
Nice advice, JC.

Mi_chief_fan
12-28-2000, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>In fact, many of my extracurriculars were determined by the 'quality of tail' in that crowd. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YEAH BABY!! (In my best Austin Powers voice.)

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 12-28-2000).]

Clint in Wichita
12-28-2000, 01:33 PM
Fly,

The best thing you can do is get her on the pill ASAP. If she decides to have sex, she's gonna have it no matter what you say or do.

Over-Head
12-28-2000, 01:37 PM
Wish I could have your paitance Fly,,,The first time I cought my 14yr old would be the time I took my parents approach,,,1 strike your out.
In my opnion,you didn the right thing,,,only you mmust realise also,,,she'll not stop seeing him simply because you said so.
I wish you the best in this matter.

Mi_chief_fan
12-28-2000, 01:39 PM
I agree with Clint; however, I didn't have the courage to come out and say it.

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 01:45 PM
Not to get too personal, but if you lean towards getting her on the pill but fear sending the message that you condone sex, and if she has an acne problem, one of the stronger acne medications [name escapes me now] has strong side effects for gestating fetuses and the law requires anyone, male or female, taking them to also institute birth control. Thereby, you can put her on the pill to help her complexion, not to condone sexual activity.

Mi_chief_fan
12-28-2000, 01:47 PM
JC,
That's tricky, but it actually sounds like it would be effective.

NaptownChief
12-28-2000, 01:52 PM
JC,

Good point and it will also make her chi chi's bigger to boot...Her boyfriend will love it....Just kidding Fly

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 01:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Isotretinoin (Accutane, Roaccutane)

Isotretinoin is an oral retinoid used to treat cystic acne. A known teratogen, this medication is contraindicated during pregnancy due to the characteristic malformations it causes. The pattern includes defects of the CNS, thymus, craniofacial and cardiovascular systems, as well as conotruncal malformations. Isotretinoin is thought to affect initial differentiation and migration of cephalic neural crest cells, and the critical period for this medication is 2-5 weeks post conception. Because the teratogenicity of Accutane is fairly well-known, we have chosen to focus upon other common acne medications in this review, rather than summarizing the literature about isotretinoin (for more details, see RISK/NEWSLETTER 3/96). Despite the half-life of approximately 1 day (manufacturer insert), due to the teratogenicity of this medication it is recommended that isotretinoin be discontinued at least one month prior to attempting pregnancy (Braun et al., 1984; Benke, 1984; Rosa, 1983; McBride, 1985; Rizzo et al., 1991). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I don't know if it is codified in law, I do know that no doctor will prescribe Accutane without also prescribing the pill and obtaining specific representations from the individual regarding maintaining the regimen prescribed<BR>

seclark
12-28-2000, 01:54 PM
fly...you might try talking to the boy. whether it's w/your daughter, or by himself. surely he knows that you're upset w/their actions.
sec

Raiderhader
12-28-2000, 01:54 PM
To tough? Absolutely not. To many people are not hard enough on their kids. They need to be taught the difference from right and wrong when they are young, other wise it will only hurt them more so once they are on their own. Don't back down, you are not doing her any favors if you do.

------------------
liberalism is racist and bigoted - towards all humans

WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

Mark M
12-28-2000, 01:56 PM
This is turning into the Dr. Joyce Brothers board all of a sudden! :D

I was just thinking, though...how would all of us react if Fly's son, rather than daughter was in this situation? Just curious...

But we all have to be careful here. Every kid is different. My parents gave me "enough rope to hang myslef with," as they put it. In high school I had a lot of sex, did a lot of drugs and many other things I'm not necessarily proud of (I even used to hang out at Swope Park on Sat. nites. Scary!! :eek: ). How I didn't die is still a bit of a mystery to me.

I went to college, graduated .04 points under cum laude, and I am a well-adjusted adult...except on Sun. during football season! :). Of all of the 20 or so of my good friends that did the same in high school, only 2 of us went on to college and went on to good careers. The rest are either in jail, dead or having a fine career making meth.

It depends on the person. Sometimes being too strict can cause problems, other times it works. Still other times being too loose can work. It's your call Fly...just remember that, at her age, she thinks she knows all. You hve to convince her that you know what you're talking about. KPhobia's idea of counseling is a good idea and nothing to be ashamed of.

MM
~~Is very, very lucky he's not Bubba's prom date in Leavenworth.

------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 01:59 PM
I thought of another method that may be affective...

invite the boyfriend in....while you clean a gun....and make sure to show him your new castration pliers you got from the vet, and the iodine....that might be a deterant....of course best served with an explaination of when you intend to use it :D

You might buy a fake security camera...hang it in the room they are in...?

Mi_chief_fan
12-28-2000, 02:04 PM
Better to be a Dr. Brothers board than a Dr. Laura board.

Brock
12-28-2000, 02:07 PM
Ahh, teenage girls. You have my sympathy, Fly. You will always be the bad guy, no matter what you do.

Chiefnj
12-28-2000, 02:11 PM
-You can't teach responsibility through prohibition-

Someone once said that, I'm not sure who though, but to a degree it makes sense. IMHO your daughter should be punished for lying to you and disregarding your wishes, but switching schools is a bit harsh.

Instead of focussing on your daughter, turn your attention to the little bastar-, err I mean "boyfriend". Let them go out on a group date, when he arrives to pick up the little princess, walk him to your backyard and have a heart to heart. Let him admire your yard. Tell him "if somebody did something I didn't like I bet I could bury them in little pieces all throughout this yard and nobody would ever find out." Then mumble something about not being right in the head since the war.

Wait outside in a tree for the "boyfriend" to return your daughter from the group date. Blind him with a flashlight taped to your slug gun. Yell out "Friend or Foe!!". Tell him to leave the girl where she is and to back away slowly with his hands up. He should get the point and be a little more respectful of your protective attitude.

seclark
12-28-2000, 02:19 PM
i tried to say it a little less subtle than iowa and chiefnj, but i think comunicating w/the boy might be the way to go.
sec

Brock
12-28-2000, 02:26 PM
My sister-in-law hid her pregnancy until the 7th month (she was 16). Teenage girls are the worst.

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 02:29 PM
sec,

something tells me that you would "communicate" and "share your feelings" with the boy pretty closely to what we said....I'm very impressed with the sensative delivery of delicate information :)

I can sure remember the 1st time my brother and I "communicated" with the boys about my sister.(ever seen the boot camp scene from FULL METAL JACKET?)..we went into the jr high football locker room, hellbent and wound with a profound speech....my sister thought she was ugly until she was a sophmore and asked a boy...and he mentioned our suggestions..

Just tell the little prick you'll crack his nuts if you catch him "petting" your daughter anymore...I know I would have at least taken it under advisement...and wouldn't be doing that stuff in your house any more....

[This message has been edited by Iowanian (edited 12-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Iowanian (edited 12-28-2000).]

Clint in Wichita
12-28-2000, 02:31 PM
Yeah, have a conversation with the boy! :rolleyes:

Do ANY of you remember being a teenager?

I would've porked John Wayne Gacy's daughter if she wanted me!!

14 is too young, but the days of "waiting until you're married" are all but over (at least VOLUNTARILY waiting). All you're going to accomplish with threats is to give her a complex.

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 02:34 PM
clint,

you crack me up sometimes, but I think you would have had a really bad day if you had tried to date my sister... :)..I mean http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/mad.gif

NaptownChief
12-28-2000, 02:36 PM
Clint,

I'm with you on that...The only thing that would have kept me off of her would be if she had been beaten with the ugly stick...And that probably wouldn't have stopped me after the age of 15 when I started drinking.

Clint in Wichita
12-28-2000, 02:36 PM
Iowanian,

Who said "date"? :p

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 12-28-2000).]

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 02:40 PM
Fly,

If it was a son, would you be saying "atta boy!!!"?

Clint,
very funny, but i think you meant :p

I think you would have sat through about 1 Cuttin' session or saw a "humane ring" put into the sows nose and would have probably chosen to "date" girls who had less male "influence" at home...

But your point is taken...I thought I was a real poon-hound when i was 15 too... :)

[This message has been edited by Iowanian (edited 12-28-2000).]

seclark
12-28-2000, 02:41 PM
i have a 15yr old daughter, and yes, i'd try talking to the boy. not a "buddy" talk, but straight up facts on how it should be. it might not stop the action between them. it might only make them be more careful of getting "caught". it might also be enough to cause him to lose interest.
sec

<BR>

Clint in Wichita
12-28-2000, 02:47 PM
I'm just glad I'm having a boy.

Instead of CRITICIZING my daughter's dates & giving her a hard time, I get to CRITIQUE my son's dates and give him a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down"!

seclark
12-28-2000, 02:48 PM
i agree clint...it's a whole different ballgame.
sec

Clint in Wichita
12-28-2000, 02:49 PM
I'm reminded of an Andrew "Dice" Clay routine:

Dice: "Is your wife good in bed?"

Man: "Yeah, she's great!"

Dice: "How do you think she got that way?"

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 02:49 PM
clint,

may GOD bless you with 4 beautiful, shapely daughters :D

------------------
"Anyone who wouldn't cheat for a poke, doesn't want one bad enough."[i] Augustus McCray</I>

NaptownChief
12-28-2000, 02:50 PM
Having a chat with the boyfriend will only cause him to build a better mousetrap...Think back to the day when we were that age...Explaining your thoughts and concerns as a father will be as useful as throwing a big juicy steak in a pen full of dogs and telling them to save some for later....

Mi_chief_fan
12-28-2000, 02:51 PM
When I was 17, I was dating a 15 year old(this was only a few years ago). Her dad, all 5'6" of him, had a 'talk' with me. At 6'190lbs, I was actually a little intimidated, believe it or not.

Then I went home & told my dad about it. My dad is larger & less intimidated than I. Let's just say, me & the girl weren't officially dating after that.

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 02:53 PM
jl,

I think thats why some of us are saying, "don't give him the Oprah, feelings speech" but rather put on your drill seargent war face and tell him if he pokes your daughter, you'll pull his nuts off with pliers and feed THEM to your dogs...


I know I'm cursed to have a housefull of daughters....

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 02:57 PM
This thread has turned in a way to why I think Fly needs to make sure what he wants to avert.
If he flat out wants to stop physical contact, then running the boy off with veiled threats is just the ticket.
But if he is concerned about emotional upset, running him off will either lead to a clandestine thing, or truly run him off and leave his daughter wondering what is 'wrong' with her, that all boys avoid her like the plague.
Luckily, I've never had the 'burning sensation when I pee' or anything like that, but I have gone through breakups that meant something [at the time] and the mental stuff can derail you just as sure as any physical problems.

Phobia
12-28-2000, 02:59 PM
George,

Tell the boy that your daughter was born with more "equipment" in the southern region than anyone bargained for and if it gets around school, you'll schedule an appointment for him at the same doctor your daughter had surgery with 14 years ago....

seclark
12-28-2000, 03:01 PM
well, heck...maybe my "talk" w/the boy didn't work...maybe it was my daughters 2older brothers. i would have hoped i had something to do w/it...
sec

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 03:02 PM
jc,

i'm not actually saying he should "run the guy completely off" only that he COMPLETELY understand the consequences of the actions his hormones may instigate...therefore giving himself more Controle over them...

If you know the electric fence will shock you, it makes you less likely to pee on it.
---except for you Raider Corporate..you should definitely try that.

[This message has been edited by Iowanian (edited 12-28-2000).]

AustinChief
12-28-2000, 03:09 PM
Fly,

My 2 cents,

Think about all the girls that HAD restraint when you were growing up. The ones I knew all made it a respect issue. They didn't want the other girls to think less of them or label them as easy. You may want to push the idea of her having enough respect for herself to avoid this behavior. It is a lot less overbearing and doesn't come across as punitive.

You also may want to talk to the parents of her close girlfriends and get a feel for what their behavior is like. If they are all doing the same thing...it will be VERY difficult to stop.

--Kyle

TheFly
12-28-2000, 03:20 PM
Wow! This is all great stuff, even the stuff from Clint! ;)

After reading everything here and thinking about it, I talked to the parents of the boy and we agreed that they could see each other, but only with direct parental supervision. Any social interactions would be directly parent supervised. Won't stop them from necessarily sneaking a kiss at school, which really isn't what we're after anyway. We just wanna make sure that the chances for a "major life event" are minimized!

My daughter and I sat and talked for along time this morning, even reading some of this thread. She really is a good kid, but even good kids have passions. Especially at this age. She cried and I had tears in my eyes, but told her that being sneaky and untrustworthy is the most direct way to break your dad's heart.

So there we are... a modified punishment of a sort... no group dates at all, no social affairs without direct parent (me or wife) supervision, and no hanging around after school.

She plays on two soccer teams, in the orchestra (trumpet), in girl scouts, and school, and still she manages to discover boys...

Thanks again. I really appreciate the advice. Even Clint's... because he's probably right too.

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 03:24 PM
fly,

it sounds like you did a great thing...talking with kids, keeping their respect, and them having alot of activities are good things to do..

good luck for next couple of years...

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> in the orchestra (trumpet), . . . and still she manages to discover boys... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to be too crude, but in keeping with the honesty of the thread, but when it comes to trumpet players, the french have a word for it. And that word is embouchure.<BR>

Iowanian
12-28-2000, 03:29 PM
"one time at band camp, I...." :D

Good night, I'm off to give a father an ulcer.

ct
12-28-2000, 03:38 PM
Very pleased to hear you may have a breakthrough, even if it only turns out to be temporary!! This is a very tough situation for everyone involved. The parents want what is best for the youngsters LONG TERM!!! The kids just want to be kids!!! Hell, I'd like to be a kid again too, and I'm a parent myself!!! Talk about a conflict of interest.

Anyway, best of luck, and for the Mr. Fly's daughter, if you're reading this, hard as it may be to admit(you don't have to out loud, by the way), your Pop does know at least a little of what he speaks. Can't tell ya how much it pains me to this day to admit my Dad actually knew what he was talkin about when I was 14!!!

ct
best of luck to all of you

seclark
12-28-2000, 03:39 PM
ok...since you all were so great w/fly, maybe you can help my w/my problem. every weekend my sons come home from school and drink every freaking beer in the house...then their mother gives them money to go back to school for another week.
help!
sec

Baby Lee
12-28-2000, 03:41 PM
sorry sec. all I can say is keep the good stuff at a friend's.

ct
12-28-2000, 03:45 PM
Easy sec, fill up a few beer bottles with a particular yellowy hued liquid, pop the caps back on, and PRESTO, problem solved!

ct

Phobia
12-28-2000, 03:46 PM
SEC -
Buy expensive dark beer. They won't like it and it will stay in the fridge for your enjoyment. You could also clean your guns near the fridge and tell them you haven't been the same since that war injury you got while guarding cases of beer from the gooks.... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

TheFly
12-28-2000, 04:09 PM
I do think I'll clean my shotgun next time the boy comes to see Katie and tell him why I have one... And explain why shotguns are double-barreled... :eek:<BR>

CHIEF1
12-28-2000, 04:40 PM
Fly - Plain and simple your going to have your hands full for the next 5 years. Unless of course she decides that school and her future career are more important. Take her to one of those schools for teenage unwed mothers who are fighting to get by and have her talk to them for a while. It may just be the eye opening experience she needs.

Mosbonian
12-28-2000, 05:24 PM
Trying to add a little levity to a serious situation I submit the following:

Ten Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter


Rule One:

If you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.


Rule Two:

You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them.


Rule Three:

I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, In order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist.


con't

Mosbonian
12-28-2000, 05:25 PM
con't

Rule Four:

I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilizing a "barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.


Rule Five:

In order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is "early."


Rule Six:

I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.

con't

Mosbonian
12-28-2000, 05:27 PM
con't

Rule Seven:

As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?


Rule Eight:

The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka zipped up to her throat. Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are better.


Rule Nine:

Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me.


con't

Mosbonian
12-28-2000, 05:28 PM
and last.....

Rule Ten:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy outside of Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine.


mark
***********

Logical
12-28-2000, 06:02 PM
Fly,

I have some questions for you:

Do you have a regular once a week activity with your daughter that will maintain a bond?

If no try, a once a week outing with just her, maybe its a movie, a meal out, but some place and time where as part of the activity you two can just talk. With each of mine it varied slightly but often it was movie with fast food before or after. In other words you need to be part of her life, in a way she can start to talk to you, not you at her.

Second, tell her that you understand that there are things you cannot control, no matter how much you want to, and you did not handle this as well as you had hoped. Ask her if she thought she handled it well, and if she admits she could have done it better, ask her in what way. Let her communicate. Prepare for the possibility you are not going to be happy or at least completely happy with the answer but do not over-react. Then talk about how you both might handle things better in the future.

Remember to reassure her that first and most important you love her, and want to establish a relationship of understanding and trust.

Then follow through with once a week activities to keep communication going.

Work with her on guidelines for appropriate behaviour, remember you want them to be something she buys into, not something you dictate. Dictates are doomed to failure, responsibility to ones own guidelines is more difficult (not impossible) for your daughter to break. The key is that she feels the buy-in and responsibility for what is appropriate.

My experience is that this worked for my family. Will it work for you, I can offer no guarantees. I wish you the best.

Happy New Year with the patience to find your way.

BIG_DADDY
12-28-2000, 08:06 PM
Logical,
Great answer. The more you tell them they can't the more they will want to do it.<BR>

DanT
12-28-2000, 09:33 PM
If I were the parent or guardian of a teenager, I'd want them to know that they could have a good time with themselves and their dates without doing anything--like losing their father's trust--that they're later going to regret. An example of the kind of site I'd consider reliable is Planned Parenthood's http://teenwire.com. Assuming a kid has a healthy relationship with her family otherwise, it seems like the biggest thing they'd have to worry about when it comes to sexuality and dating is one-sided and ignorant information from sex-crazed peers and sex-phobic parents. Any site that doesn't give accurate and reliable information about abstinence and masturbation (just to name two litmus-test topics) is of little value, in my opinion.

I only mean these comments in a general way, not as advice for anyone's particular family situations. I have no idea what it's like to actually be raising a kid ;)

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 12-28-2000).]

TheFly
12-28-2000, 11:27 PM
Good comments all around! Thanks!

I especially like the 10 Rules of Dating...

;)<BR>

Mark M
12-29-2000, 06:27 AM
Fly--
Great to hear you had a heart to heart with your daughter! I wish you the best of luck!

Logical--
Great advice! I will have to store that into memory.

Kilgore--
LOL!! Where did you get that?

MM
~~Starting to believe it does take a village to raise a kid.

------------------
One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
--George W. Bush

Lightning Rod
12-29-2000, 09:13 AM
You sir are the dad. Dad = prophylactic. Your job is to use what ever means necessary fair or unfair to keep the horny little bastages off your daughter. I would suggest cleaning large firearms in front of her would be boyfriends when ever possible.

My statement above was only partially in jest. You’re in a tough spot and I think you may have poured gasoline on the fire in forbidding your daughter to see the young man. I have a daughter of my own and in 7 years I will be in your shoes and am NOT looking forward to it. I do hope to instill (in the boys) a healthy fear of me. <BR>

bkkcoh
12-29-2000, 09:23 AM
Fly:

If you find something that works let us know. I have a daughter that is 9 going on 20. I really am dreading the day I have to worry about that topic. We have talked about letting our youngest son take some form of martial arts to keep any of her suitors in line.

Good luck.

------------------
Brian K.

If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going.

[i]Professor Irwin Corey </I>

Clint in Wichita
12-29-2000, 10:50 AM
You can try anything you want...they've all been unsuccessfully attempted in the past.

I'm guessing that almost everyone on this BB had sex before they were married...most before leaving high school. I'm sure the fathers of the girls you guys slept with felt the same as Fly.

14 is too young, IMO, but really the best you can hope for is for her to either voluntarily abstain, or at least not get pregnant & stay disease-free. Force & intimidation WILL NOT WORK. It might even convince her to go out & do it just to spite you, or to "see what the big deal is".

Cleaning a gun in front of some kid will do nothing. These days, chances are he's got a gun of his own in his freaking glove box!!

Clint in Wichita
12-29-2000, 10:50 AM
double post

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 12-29-2000).]

Mosbonian
12-29-2000, 11:17 AM
Mark M:

I would love to take credit for thinking it up, but alas it was from "Mad Max's Ten Rules For Dating My Daughter" from the John Boy & Billy's Big Show Website. They are a couple of syndicated FM DJ's based here in Charlotte. The webiste has some pretty funny stuff listed there along with some pics from when the Hooter's girls came to visit.

mark
**********

NaptownChief
12-29-2000, 11:22 AM
Fear is a great tactic in most walks of life but the only thing in the world that I have found to be immune to fear is a teenage hard-on...So the gun cleaning and fear tactics will just make them much more careful and sneaky...

------------------
[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Mark M
12-29-2000, 11:25 AM
Kilgore--
I'm always looking for a good laugh. How about a link?

MM
~~Still wishes Fly the best of luck!

Mosbonian
12-29-2000, 12:13 PM
Mark M:

The link is: www.thebigshow.com (http://www.thebigshow.com)

Look at the "Bits" button to the left and click on it. It has a long list of good stuff.

You will also notice the pics of the "Hooters" girls on the front page of their website.

mark
*************
bets more people than you will click the link