PDA

View Full Version : With that gameplan - why not Croyle?


Shag
09-18-2006, 09:28 AM
Heading into the Denver game, I was strongly against starting Croyle, as I feared getting him killed (see week 1). However, after seeing the gameplan for Denver, I wonder if that was the right decision.

Huard did nothing that Croyle couldn't have, IMHO - short drops, quick passes, nothing downfield. With that gameplan, Croyle gives us a better chance at winning than Huard, simply based on talent - Croyle has the talent to make plays downfield if needed. Huard didn't blow the game for us (though, that fumble was costly), but he did nothing to win it, either.

After halftime, Huard completed passes totaling 45 yards (37 of that on one play), and ZERO first downs. Yes, Huard was handcuffed, but he did little with the opportunities he was given. I find it real hard to believe Croyle couldn't have topped that.

If Trent isn't back in week 4, I wish the coaching staff would consider starting Croyle (which they won't). They can handcuff him with the same type of gameplan if they want, but when the time comes, they can take some shots, and rely on Croyle's talent to make some plays...

ChiTown
09-18-2006, 09:32 AM
I honestly don't think that it would have been a good idea to start the first game of your career (as a rookie) in the unfriendly confines of Denver.

Huard was the right choice. They just should have opened up the playbook past the page of 2. jmho

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 09:35 AM
I honestly don't think that it would have been a good idea to start the first game of your career (as a rookie) in the unfriendly confines of Denver.

Huard was the right choice. They just should have opened up the playbook past the page of 2. jmho



Agreed.....at 0-1 there was still hope, at 0-2 and knowing the team would have to go 10-4 or 11-3 the rest of the way to make the playoffs I am now all for seeing what we have in Croyle assuming he is comfortable with the playbook.

HC_Chief
09-18-2006, 09:41 AM
No.

Give Croyle a year to learn the offense and to HEAL. Hand him the reigns next season.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 09:51 AM
No.

Give Croyle a year to learn the offense and to HEAL. Hand him the reigns next season.


I realize throwing away seasons around here has become no big deal but would you really want to throw away next season to groom a QB when you could do it this year in what looks to be almost certainly a non-playoff year?

Do it this year and if he is the guy you can't get him through his learning curve in a year that is almost certainly already ruined and if you find out he isn't the guy then you can make the needed picks or FA signings to move in the right direction a year sooner.

JBucc
09-18-2006, 09:53 AM
I don't care either way. But unless Huard is injured it won't matter.

Brock
09-18-2006, 09:54 AM
I'm not at all ready to declare this a "non-playoff year". It's week 2.

Skip Towne
09-18-2006, 09:56 AM
With his injury history I'm afraid he'll get broken in half. I'm for giving him a year to gain bulk and strength.

kc1977
09-18-2006, 09:57 AM
I'm not at all ready to declare this a "non-playoff year". It's week 2.

No kidding - we have 2 winnable games in a row that we can reasonably get to 2-2. Many 2-2 teams have made the playoffs.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 09:57 AM
I'm not at all ready to declare this a "non-playoff year". It's week 2.


I certainly can understand some holding out hope but looking at the schedule even with the two Raider freebies I can't see this team and coach combination going the needed 10-4 or 11-3 in the next 14 games under hardly any circumstance. If I were running the team I would probably hold out until they are 0-3 or 1-3 before making that move just so you don't have to hear the Whitlocks of the world talking about how you gave up after week 2 for the next 10 years....

CupidStunt
09-18-2006, 10:00 AM
"That" gameplan was smart, safe and non-erratic, not the traits of a rookie third-round QB.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 10:04 AM
If all we're requiring of our QB is 5 yards passes, I say we give Croyle the next two weeks worth of starter reps and break him in at home against the 49ers.

We can give him the same leash we gave Huard, and let him build confidence for the future. I'd rather be developing a guy that might someday be our QB, than coddling a career clipboard holder.

Halfcan
09-18-2006, 10:11 AM
3 down-13 Yards to go Run left

2-37 Run Right

3-78 Run up the middle

Yeah Broadie could hand off better-maybe even not fumble 4 times in 2 games like Damon.

HC_Chief
09-18-2006, 10:16 AM
I realize throwing away seasons around here has become no big deal but would you really want to throw away next season to groom a QB when you could do it this year in what looks to be almost certainly a non-playoff year?

Do it this year and if he is the guy you can't get him through his learning curve in a year that is almost certainly already ruined and if you find out he isn't the guy then you can make the needed picks or FA signings to move in the right direction a year sooner.

This year is for "grooming".

See Phillip Rivers and Carson Palmer. Those guys were drafted, then given a year to learn the offense prior to getting the start.

Trent Green WILL be back. Huard did a solid job yesterday... calling for his replacement is unwarranted. Allow Huard to do his job, BACKUP TRENT GREEN, until #10 returns. Green finishes the season, with Croyle learning the whole time. Next season, Croyle gets the reigns.

keg in kc
09-18-2006, 10:19 AM
This year is for "grooming".

See Phillip Rivers and Carson Palmer. Those guys were drafted, then given a year to learn the offense prior to getting the start.Exactly.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 10:20 AM
I just don't see any reason to believe that Croyle can't replicate what we just asked Huard to do. Especially if we give him two weeks of prep and ask him to do it at home against one of the worst teams in the league. Worst case scenario is he looks bad and we bring Huard back in to get us 3 points.

It reminds me of the Blaylock/LJ scenario a few years back. We're padding the stats of a guy that will never be more than he is, over finding out what we have in a young guy that could prove to be more.

If all we're going to expect of our QB is 5 yards passes, then Croyle should get a look.

HC_Chief
09-18-2006, 10:24 AM
It reminds me of the Blaylock/LJ scenario a few years back. We're padding the stats of a guy that will never be more than he is, over finding out what we have in a young guy that could prove to be more.

And LJ learned a lot from that year, too. LJ did not show patience like he does now. He learned to patiently follow his lead blockers, then explode through the hole from WATCHING Priest.

In the preseason carries he had in his rookie season, he blindly dove into the line. He showed zero patience, and zero explosion.

keg in kc
09-18-2006, 10:28 AM
If all we're going to expect of our QB is 5 yards passes, then Croyle should get a look.I'd say that's precisely what we don't want to teach Croyle. I mean, seriously, if two years from now when he takes over for Green, you want a gunshy QB who won't attack downfield (the next Todd Collins?) then by all means go ahead and throw him in with our swinging gate/bullrushed can't block for a 7-step drop OTs.

Personally, I'd like to put him in a position to succeed, and a position to win, rather than ask him to go in, don't take risks, get rid of the ball quickly and, oh yes, please don't lose the game. Which is what Huard's tasked wtih.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 10:32 AM
I'd say that's precisely what we don't want to teach Croyle. I mean, seriously, if two years from now when he takes over for Green, you want a gunshy QB who won't attack downfield (the next Todd Collins?) then by all means go ahead and throw him in with our swinging gate/bullrushed can't block for a 7-step drop OTs.

Personally, I'd like to put him in a position to succeed, and a position to win, rather than ask him to go in, don't take risks, get rid of the ball quickly and, oh yes, please don't lose the game. Which is what Huard's tasked wtih.Yea, because a few games in the NFL will make him completely unlearn an entire life of QBing.

If anything, it teaches him about the safety valves when going through progressions, and builds his confidence.

I don't believe in using 3rd round picks on players that are guranteed to be shelved for two years before they play. That's Dick Vermeil style drafting, and it's stupid.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 10:34 AM
And LJ learned a lot from that year, too. LJ did not show patience like he does now. He learned to patiently follow his lead blockers, then explode through the hole from WATCHING Priest.

In the preseason carries he had in his rookie season, he blindly dove into the line. He showed zero patience, and zero explosion.Yea, he probably couldn't have learned a thing playing in that 56 point ass kicking we dropped on Atlanta. But at least we got Blaylock a fat new contract

keg in kc
09-18-2006, 10:40 AM
I don't believe in using 3rd round picks on players that are guranteed to be shelved for two years before they play. That's Dick Vermeil style drafting, and it's stupid.I agree with you - except for the quarterback position. It's been proven over and over the last few years that a year on the sidelines watching is of huge benefit to young signalcallers. I don't buy the 'baptism of fire' bullshit, not with QBs.

HC_Chief
09-18-2006, 10:42 AM
I agree with you - except for the quarterback position. It's been proven over and over the last few years that a year on the sidelines watching is of huge benefit to young signalcallers. I don't buy the 'baptism of fire' bullshit, not with QBs.

Yep.

JBucc
09-18-2006, 10:43 AM
I agree with you - except for the quarterback position. It's been proven over and over the last few years that a year on the sidelines watching is of huge benefit to young signalcallers. I don't buy the 'baptism of fire' bullshit, not with QBs.I like the baptism by fire if your team sucks. So if we go 1-3 or 0-4 and Trent still isn't ready we definately should play Croyle.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 10:44 AM
I agree with you - except for the quarterback position. It's been proven over and over the last few years that a year on the sidelines watching is of huge benefit to young signalcallers. I don't buy the 'baptism of fire' bullshit, not with QBs.And how often is that rookie QB "baptized" by being thrown on the field for a completely shitty team? More often than not, their failure comes from being expected to save the day on a terrible squad.

We're asking for a few games of play, on a very tight leash, on a 10 win team that has other offensive weapons and what looks to be a solid defense.

We're not asking him to save the franchise. We're asking him to pretend to be Damon Huard.

keg in kc
09-18-2006, 10:53 AM
And how often is that rookie QB "baptized" by being thrown on the field for a completely shitty team? More often than not, their failure comes from being expected to save the day on a terrible squad.

We're asking for a few games of play, on a very tight leash, on a 10 win team that has other offensive weapons and what looks to be a solid defense.

We're not asking him to save the franchise. We're asking him to pretend to be Damon Huard.We don't need him to be Damon Huard. We have Damon Huard. Let Damon Huard be Damon Huard. What we want Croyle to be is Trent Green after Trent Green is gone, and he's not going to learn that playing behind this line this year. Although frankly, I wouldn't play him even if Roaf was still around. He needs to gain weight, first of all, I don't think he'd make it through a string of games, and, as I've said already, he needs to watch the pro game from the sideline for a season. That's just the way I'd do it, and absolutely nothing you tell me is going to change my mind on that. It's what works best.

And I'd say at this point, we're looking a lot closer to a completely shitty team than we are a 10-win squad.

Although to be my own devil's advocate, part of Green's development was playing behind an absolutely horrible o-line in Washington and completing short passes to RBs and TEs. But that also wasn't his first year in the league.

Hound333
09-18-2006, 10:53 AM
I'm not at all ready to declare this a "non-playoff year". It's week 2.


This is exactly why. They know that with the Defense playing well and the offense suspect a ball control offense where you try not to make mistakes (turnovers) is best. Croyle will make to many Rookie mistakes and they aren't ready to toss the season out because we lost to a good Cincy team and to the Bronco's at Invesco where everyone loses.

Now if we are 2-8 I can see them starting Croyle a few times late to get him some game time.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 11:01 AM
I don't buy the 'baptism of fire' bullshit, not with QBs.


It worked pretty well with the Mannings, Rothlisberger.....Compare Eli, Big Ben and Phillip Rivers...All three drafted at the same time and all first rounders. Eli and Ben were tossed in first year and Rivers sat out his first two. Are you telling me Rivers is better off right now than Eli and Rothlisberger?

penchief
09-18-2006, 11:04 AM
And LJ learned a lot from that year, too. LJ did not show patience like he does now. He learned to patiently follow his lead blockers, then explode through the hole from WATCHING Priest.

In the preseason carries he had in his rookie season, he blindly dove into the line. He showed zero patience, and zero explosion.

I'll agree that he learned patience but the "zero explosion" analysis has no merit, IMO. Also, he learned patience by practicing and playing, not by being placed on the inactive list or watching from the sidelines.

JMO.

Dark Horse
09-18-2006, 11:13 AM
I like the baptism by fire if your team sucks. So if we go 1-3 or 0-4 and Trent still isn't ready we definately should play Croyle.

We will beat the 49ers badly, that game may have to be edited for tv because of graphic violence and bloodshed

Brock
09-18-2006, 11:17 AM
We will beat the 49ers badly, that game may have to be edited for tv because of graphic violence and bloodshed

I wouldn't be willing to bet on that.

JBucc
09-18-2006, 11:21 AM
I wouldn't be willing to bet on that.Neither would I. Gore was a great pickup and I dare say Smith is better than Plummer or Huard. Oh and they did just beat the team that beat the team that we just lost to. I still say we win because it's at Arrowhead but this isn't last year's San Fran.

Dark Horse
09-18-2006, 11:27 AM
I wouldn't be willing to bet on that.

You are one of those glass is half emty guys aren't you

Hound333
09-18-2006, 12:28 PM
And LJ learned a lot from that year, too. LJ did not show patience like he does now. He learned to patiently follow his lead blockers, then explode through the hole from WATCHING Priest.

In the preseason carries he had in his rookie season, he blindly dove into the line. He showed zero patience, and zero explosion.


I still think the only reason LJ didn't play much those first few years was because he pass blocked so terrible. He would miss and almost get Trent killed.

He was in DV's dog house for whatever reason. Couple that with poor blocking and not showing the patience to wait for blocks kept him on the sideline.

Calcountry
09-18-2006, 12:34 PM
We will beat the 49ers badly, that game may have to be edited for tv because of graphic violence and bloodshedLets hope Randy Cross isn't doing that game.

tk13
09-18-2006, 12:43 PM
It worked pretty well with the Mannings, Rothlisberger.....Compare Eli, Big Ben and Phillip Rivers...All three drafted at the same time and all first rounders. Eli and Ben were tossed in first year and Rivers sat out his first two. Are you telling me Rivers is better off right now than Eli and Rothlisberger?
Those guys were top 11 picks. If this season keeps going downhill, there might be a time to play Croyle. I'm not sure it's game 3 of his first season after he missed half the preseason though. Maybe, but I don't want him to be in over his head. It's easy to say throw him out there and if he struggles bring Huard back, but I don't think that's a good idea.

Brock
09-18-2006, 12:45 PM
You are one of those glass is half emty guys aren't you

You're one of those douches that have to put everybody into a certain box so you can understand the world aren't you

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 12:47 PM
Those guys were top 11 picks.

Yeah but it is still the same concept...It isn't like those guys are a lot smarter or more poised just because they were drafted higher....Different position but look no further than Jarad Page and Benard Pollard...Page is on the field before Pollard despite being a 7th rounder versus Pollard being drafted really high as a 2nd rounder.

luv
09-18-2006, 12:51 PM
Isn't Croyle one that gets injured easily? All we need is for our current backup (to the backup) to get injured as well.

patteeu
09-18-2006, 02:12 PM
It worked pretty well with the Mannings, Rothlisberger.....Compare Eli, Big Ben and Phillip Rivers...All three drafted at the same time and all first rounders. Eli and Ben were tossed in first year and Rivers sat out his first two. Are you telling me Rivers is better off right now than Eli and Rothlisberger?

How do JP Losman and Matt Schaub, the other QBs taken in the first 3 rounds that year, fit into your analysis?

Hoover
09-18-2006, 02:28 PM
I'm not ready to give up on the season, but if we are out of it, we need to give the Rookie some playing time. He needs to be taking reps with the first team during the week.

GoTrav
09-18-2006, 02:35 PM
I wouldn't be willing to bet on that.

me either. SF looks much improved. It won't be a gimme.

Frosty
09-18-2006, 02:53 PM
Lets hope Randy Cross isn't doing that game.

Doubtful, since it should be a Fox game, and not a very high priority one at that.

Chiefnj
09-18-2006, 03:18 PM
If Kyle Orton can do it, why can't Brodie Croyle?

jspchief
09-18-2006, 03:21 PM
If Kyle Orton can do it, why can't Brodie Croyle?Haven't you heard? Croyle's bones are made of balsa wood, his skin is made of wet tissue paper, and his psyche is as delicate as a spring flower.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 04:28 PM
agreed .......... if we are going to run an offensive game plan designed for a rookie QB, why not use the rookie QB.


that offense yesterday was exactly what Herm saw Marty do with phillip rivers in his first game.


run,run,run ....... all passes under 10 "air" yrds



why use a rookie QB game plan with a 10 year veteran?

runnercyclist
09-18-2006, 07:14 PM
I agree. If Trent can't be back by week four, let's see the kid with a similar conservative game plan.