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View Full Version : Don't rave too much about this defense yet


B_Ambuehl
09-18-2006, 10:55 AM
This defense still has some major problems and major holes to fill before they can be consistently good. The same thing happened yesterday that happened against Cincinnati. Denver found a rhythm and were able to march up and down the field almost at will late in the game. Over 200 yards given up in the 2nd half yesterday....that ain't gonna cut it.

This football team has exactly one sack in 2 games. No consistent pass rush. They're still giving up long runs too boot. Even as good as the run defense *looked* yesterday Denver still averaged 4 yds/carry whcih will usually get you beat in close defensive football games.

In the secondary Law looks like there's something wrong with him...he can't stop, start, and change direction. Maybe injury....maybe just old age.

ChiefsfaninPA
09-18-2006, 10:59 AM
You can throw all the stats and opinions out that you want but this defense looks WAY better than any D I have seen fielded around here in quite some time. They will improve as the season progresses and a lot of our talent is young guys. This D is worth being excited about.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 11:06 AM
Denver's offensive gameplan was almost as leashed as ours. I'm still skeptical about us being that good.

jidar
09-18-2006, 11:07 AM
This defense kept Denver to 9 points at home. If they perform like this all season then they're a good defense.

God that's something we haven't been able to say around here for a long time. Good Defense.

Yeah if they keep it up, they're good. That's the bottom line.

Saulbadguy
09-18-2006, 11:09 AM
Denver's offensive gameplan was almost as leashed as ours. I'm still skeptical about us being that good.
Exactly.

StcChief
09-18-2006, 11:12 AM
I saw Law 'slip' too vs. Jevon Walker. Pile high dry Turf as the dust flew...
In general he played well was on top of him.

Because he didn't get an INT or Pick 6 on Jake he played bad?

I don't think so. This D is a top 10-15 easy.

GoodDaySir!
09-18-2006, 11:15 AM
From today's Denver Post:

"I thought we dialed it back a little bit. We put a little more pressure on our defense," said Shanahan, who admitted after five turnovers against the Rams last week he was not about to let Plummer throw the same junk around his own backyard Sunday.

CupidStunt
09-18-2006, 11:16 AM
Stud DT away from a very good defense imo.

And I'm usually called a pessimist. Not to Logical's level, or even close it, but still. I disagree with the assessment personally.

donkhater
09-18-2006, 11:20 AM
This football team has exactly one sack in 2 games. No consistent pass rush. They're still giving up long runs too boot. Even as good as the run defense *looked* yesterday Denver still averaged 4 yds/carry whcih will usually get you beat in close defensive football games.


Be careful. You'll get run out of town with opinions like this.

htismaqe
09-18-2006, 11:21 AM
Denver's offensive gameplan was almost as leashed as ours. I'm still skeptical about us being that good.

I said it last week and I'll say it again:

It doesn't matter if Denver was conservative or not, this defense stopped them time and again. Team's played conservative offense against us in the past and yet they continued to score and accumulate yardage.

Paniero
09-18-2006, 11:27 AM
Yes!

Good defense and poor offensive potential. Now all we need is to bring the Tomahawk Chop back and we'll be in 1994 again.

jspchief
09-18-2006, 11:28 AM
I said it last week and I'll say it again:

It doesn't matter if Denver was conservative or not, this defense stopped them time and again. Team's played conservative offense against us in the past and yet they continued to score and accumulate yardage.When Denver needed it most, they got it.

I've said all along that I think this defense is better than most Chiefs fans do. They were better last year than people recognize and I expect continued improvement.

But I also recognize that Shanahan is was trying to grip on a QB situation that was in a tailspin. The offense we faced was toned down. Period. I'm not going to put more stock into holding Denver to 9 points than is really there.

This defense hasn't been put to a true test yet IMO. They've faced a Cincy O that was in cruise control by halftime, and a Denver O that was leashed in an attempt to stave off QB controversy. It's a good start, but it's only a start.

B_Ambuehl
09-18-2006, 11:28 AM
I saw Law 'slip' too vs. Jevon Walker. Pile high dry Turf as the dust flew...
In general he played well was on top of him.

Because he didn't get an INT or Pick 6 on Jake he played bad?

I don't think so. This D is a top 10-15 easy.

More than slipping he's looking a lot like he was looking last year against the Jets when he was supposed to be injured. I watched a lot of Jets football last year and he's quite a bit leaner but looks to be moving about the same. His legs just don't look "there". He gambled a lot and got some interceptions but he was also targeted often last year. I dont see anything changing thus far. Along with giving up several first downs he gave up THE big play down the field yesterday that cost us a football game. Yeah he's a corner and those things will occassionally happen but that's the bottom line.....for his $50 million or whatever price tag i'd expect more.

RedThat
09-18-2006, 11:30 AM
Too be honest, I'm getting excited about this defense. I think they're in a transition stage right now, and I think they'll get better as the season progresses.

I've noticed a few things here, that NEVER happened with Vermeil.
Our tackling has improved bigtime. Especially in the secondary. And, we haven't given up the big plays YET. We're playing a lot smarter. Our players are reading plays, batting down balls, etc.

Few things we need to do though, to become an even BETTER defense, we need to force more turnovers. Go after the ball more, force fumbles. And we have got to create more pressure on the QB. Im still seeing the opposing QB having some time to throw the football.

Other than that, if you ask me, we're headed in the right direction on defense. Tackling, and not giving up big plays is a GREAT start.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 11:57 AM
I don't think so. This D is a top 10-15 easy.



Right now according to ESPN we are 8th on overall D.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 11:58 AM
Our tackling has improved bigtime. Especially in the secondary.



It is nice watching a pile of Chiefs in on the tackle instead of one player taking a shot while others watch, then if he misses, another tries while the rest watch and so on.

Calcountry
09-18-2006, 11:58 AM
You can throw all the stats and opinions out that you want but this defense looks WAY better than any D I have seen fielded around here in quite some time. They will improve as the season progresses and a lot of our talent is young guys. This D is worth being excited about.Was it all that? Or was some of it Denvers O being teh suckage this year?

RedThat
09-18-2006, 12:01 PM
It is nice watching a pile of Chiefs in on the tackle instead of one player taking a shot while others watch, then if he misses, another tries while the rest watch and so on.

I hear ya man and I agree. That was evident in yesterdays game.

In the Vermeil era, we saw one guy miss, then the other guy either watch or jog to the ball.

MichaelH
09-18-2006, 12:30 PM
I am enthusiastic about the improved D but I'm not fully convinced they're here to stay. I wonder why Denver put Jake on a leash though? Something about the defense may have got his attention.

GoodDaySir!
09-18-2006, 12:35 PM
I am enthusiastic about the improved D but I'm not fully convinced they're here to stay. I wonder why Denver put Jake on a leash though? Something about the defense may have got his attention.

Or maybe it was the fact that he had 8 turnovers in his last two games.

Just maybe.

kc1977
09-18-2006, 01:45 PM
This defense still has some major problems and major holes to fill before they can be consistently good. The same thing happened yesterday that happened against Cincinnati. Denver found a rhythm and were able to march up and down the field almost at will late in the game. Over 200 yards given up in the 2nd half yesterday....that ain't gonna cut it.

This football team has exactly one sack in 2 games. No consistent pass rush. They're still giving up long runs too boot. Even as good as the run defense *looked* yesterday Denver still averaged 4 yds/carry whcih will usually get you beat in close defensive football games.

In the secondary Law looks like there's something wrong with him...he can't stop, start, and change direction. Maybe injury....maybe just old age.

This is ridiculous post - blaming the defense, really - I didn't read the whole thread - hopefully somebody has already pointed this out - but out defense was constantly on the field in the second half. You cannot leave the defense on the field that long without this happening. You cannot leave any defense on the field that long without this happening.

The fact that our defense somehow managed to not allow a TD, after continually getting screwed by our offense giving them no breather, is nothing short of amazing.

Tuckdaddy
09-18-2006, 01:53 PM
We are yet to give up a TD pass after playing two playoffs teams. That is enough to me happy about the direction we are going. The lack of sacks is a concern though.

Fruit Ninja
09-18-2006, 02:00 PM
This defense still has some major problems and major holes to fill before they can be consistently good. The same thing happened yesterday that happened against Cincinnati. Denver found a rhythm and were able to march up and down the field almost at will late in the game. Over 200 yards given up in the 2nd half yesterday....that ain't gonna cut it.

This football team has exactly one sack in 2 games. No consistent pass rush. They're still giving up long runs too boot. Even as good as the run defense *looked* yesterday Denver still averaged 4 yds/carry whcih will usually get you beat in close defensive football games.

In the secondary Law looks like there's something wrong with him...he can't stop, start, and change direction. Maybe injury....maybe just old age.
Our Great D of the 90's used to bend like a mother f@cker, but it didnt break. So far in 2 games this year, it hasnt broke. We are inconsistant on pass rush, we all know that. I amnot saying this D is 85 bears or anything, but they are Definately playing with fire. I seen to many hard hits on Sunday. These guys arent scared to lay the wood. Wesley probalby had the best game of his career.

Law is doing just damn fine. He has gave up a few receptions, but tell me what cornerback out there that doesnt get beat?

Again, this Defense through 2 games is TONS better then i expected.

bringbackmarty
09-18-2006, 02:25 PM
When Denver needed it most, they got it.

I've said all along that I think this defense is better than most Chiefs fans do. They were better last year than people recognize and I expect continued improvement.

But I also recognize that Shanahan is was trying to grip on a QB situation that was in a tailspin. The offense we faced was toned down. Period. I'm not going to put more stock into holding Denver to 9 points than is really there.

This defense hasn't been put to a true test yet IMO. They've faced a Cincy O that was in cruise control by halftime, and a Denver O that was leashed in an attempt to stave off QB controversy. It's a good start, but it's only a start.
we lost because our d was tired, been on the field too much. We lost due to two offensive turnovers. When the d was fresh, it was great. The rules favor the offense, playoff team at home, holding them to zero tuchdowns is an excellent defensive performance.

Woodrow Call
09-18-2006, 02:30 PM
Speaking of lack of sacks what happened to the "Falcon" like D with Hali, Allen, or Wilkerson roaming the line and picking a spot to expose? I think I saw Allen do it once yesterday but I haven't seen much of it.

I thought it worked well against the Rams.

tommykat
09-18-2006, 02:34 PM
I saw a "D-Line" I haven't seen in years! I was happy, err till we lost, but gotta love Jared Allen! :D

Stinger
09-18-2006, 02:35 PM
In the secondary Law looks like there's something wrong with him...he can't stop, start, and change direction. Maybe injury....maybe just old age.

Neither I saw LJ fall more than a few times while trying to cut an outside sweep yesterday. I believe it had to do with more field condition or shoe spike size than anything else.

Easy 6
09-18-2006, 02:56 PM
The naysayer's can point out some interesting enough things, we are an incomplete project still. But this D look's WAY BETTER this year, we gave'em what...2 or 3, 3n' out's to start the game, flew around the ball, brought the heavy lumber, got a pick and had us in it to the end. And it's only gonna get BETTER......................P.S.- The good Pastor has pointed out that we are 8th in NFL D, how can we really complain?

2bikemike
09-18-2006, 03:01 PM
I do believe this verison of the D is better, How much better is yet to be seen. I don't think they have truly been tested yet. Donkey game plan was as conservative if not more so than our own.

What bugs me is this team never really seems to play as well after the half. This has been going on for years. They just don't seem to make the necessary adjustments at half time. Our opponets always seem to do a better job of it. At least thats my perception.

Stinger
09-18-2006, 03:02 PM
P.S.- The good Pastor has pointed out that we are 8th in NFL D, how can we really complain?

ROFLROFL

I see you are new here stick around and you'll learn. People love to complain. Some of the best stuff came out in the regular season during our 13-3 season back in 2003.

petegz28
09-18-2006, 03:07 PM
shit this defense was sticking people hard yesterday

alpha_omega
09-18-2006, 03:08 PM
I won't rave about anything until we win a game.

Easy 6
09-18-2006, 03:14 PM
2bikemike, there is a popular school of thought in CHIEFS kingdom about poor halftime adjustments, particularly the D. But Gun, while the team's he head coached didnt dazzle, alway's fielded a solid D. Which lead's me to believe he is making good adjustment's most of the time, except that for these last few years the over-all lack of talent and compatability w/ Vermeil made it look like he wasnt adjusting.Not that Gun's blameless but talented player's have to make talented adjustment's. With the dinvr game, i just think we asked em' to save the day one to many times.

Woodrow Call
09-18-2006, 03:15 PM
The one thing this D has is confidence. I dont care if the rain helped slow down the Bengals or if Jake's short leash helped stop the Broncos, this D thinks they are good and that is half the battle.

Wallcrawler
09-18-2006, 03:16 PM
In the second half, and toward the end of the game, the offense couldnt stay on the field. A couple 3 and outs, a turnover, and that puts the defense out there for a lot more plays.

Take into account the thin air there in Denver, the offense just let the defense down against the Broncos. 9 points. Youve got to be able to put up more than 9 points to expect to win.

Going into that game I never expected the game to be nearly as close as it was. The defense kept the Chiefs in the game, while the conservative playcalling inside the 20 and the final 3 minutes of the game lost it for them.

Damon Huard or not, Tony Gonzalez got about 3 looks all game and that is unacceptable. One he dropped (that was dead on accurate by the way), one he caught, and another wasnt even intended for him but he caught it off a tip for no gain.

If you dont even have enough faith in your QB to give Tony G a shot, its time to replace the QB that is in there. Im not saying he should put it up 40 times, but you cant go into marty mode with 3 straight runs and a punt. Or 2 runs and a short pass all game long. Youve got to have a guy in there that at some point can use the threat of the run with Playaction and get the ball at least 20 yards downfield. Eddie Kennison was wide open on one big gain off the fake. They just didnt do enough of the playaction passes, and in my book they just got too conservative with the gameplan.

Huard wasting our last timeout with 9 seconds left in the half didnt help matters in the game any. The bottom line is that the Chiefs need some BIGTIME work on the redzone offense.

Stop playing for 3, play for 7. If youre in 1st and long, dont just give up and say "oh we're not gonna get this, lets just run 3 times for field position and punt."

I dont think you should throw 50 times a game, but by the same token you cant just throw 10-15 passes all game either. Balance it out. Take some shots. Play to win, dont be so afraid to lose that you stop yourself before the other team has a chance to do it themselves.

2bikemike
09-18-2006, 03:34 PM
In the second half, and toward the end of the game, the offense couldnt stay on the field. A couple 3 and outs, a turnover, and that puts the defense out there for a lot more plays.

Take into account the thin air there in Denver, the offense just let the defense down against the Broncos. 9 points. Youve got to be able to put up more than 9 points to expect to win.

Going into that game I never expected the game to be nearly as close as it was. The defense kept the Chiefs in the game, while the conservative playcalling inside the 20 and the final 3 minutes of the game lost it for them.

Damon Huard or not, Tony Gonzalez got about 3 looks all game and that is unacceptable. One he dropped (that was dead on accurate by the way), one he caught, and another wasnt even intended for him but he caught it off a tip for no gain.

If you dont even have enough faith in your QB to give Tony G a shot, its time to replace the QB that is in there. Im not saying he should put it up 40 times, but you cant go into marty mode with 3 straight runs and a punt. Or 2 runs and a short pass all game long. Youve got to have a guy in there that at some point can use the threat of the run with Playaction and get the ball at least 20 yards downfield. Eddie Kennison was wide open on one big gain off the fake. They just didnt do enough of the playaction passes, and in my book they just got too conservative with the gameplan.

Huard wasting our last timeout with 9 seconds left in the half didnt help matters in the game any. The bottom line is that the Chiefs need some BIGTIME work on the redzone offense.

Stop playing for 3, play for 7. If youre in 1st and long, dont just give up and say "oh we're not gonna get this, lets just run 3 times for field position and punt."

I dont think you should throw 50 times a game, but by the same token you cant just throw 10-15 passes all game either. Balance it out. Take some shots. Play to win, dont be so afraid to lose that you stop yourself before the other team has a chance to do it themselves.

I think they did a fairly good job of mixing the passes and the runs. I do agree TG needs to be fed the ball a bit more. The Chiefs had 23 pass attempts and 34 rushing attempts. I was dissapointed they did not take a couple of shots at the End zone especially at the end of the first half. But the clock management has been beaten to death.

TG did some pass protection yesterday that took away his opprotunities. The other thing was that all of the pass attempts for the most part were very short safe attempts. I think we averaged something like 6 yards per attempt or about a yard and a half more per carry.

Easy 6
09-18-2006, 03:37 PM
BTW Stinger, they'll never take me ALIVE :bang:

Frosty
09-18-2006, 03:46 PM
I thought the defense wore down too. The offense was completely ineffective the second half and the defense was just out there too long.

Chief Faithful
09-18-2006, 03:55 PM
Denver's offensive gameplan was almost as leashed as ours. I'm still skeptical about us being that good.

I agree with that, but just like last year the defense continues to get better.

keg in kc
09-18-2006, 05:38 PM
That "conservative" approach by Denver would've led to 200+ plus yards rushing anytime between 2001 and 2005.

Or rather, did lead to 200+ yards rushing.

runnercyclist
09-18-2006, 05:51 PM
Law is fine.

The DL is ok against the run.

Our ends are undersized and our DTs get no push.

I like it better than last year.

There it is.

Deberg_1990
09-18-2006, 06:17 PM
This team is just a pass rush away from being top 5. We need some wide bodies in the middle who can collapse the pocket. That will free up Allen and Hali on the ends. Until thay happens, QB's will always get a nice pocket to work from, thus decent time to throw.