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View Full Version : Hypothetical.....Would You Trade Green


NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:20 PM
Under the following assumptions:

Chiefs come out and lose in week 4 to the 9ers and go 0-3. That would leave them having to go at least 10-3 to 11-2 in their final 16 games to make the playoffs(virtually impossible).
Trent Green is medically cleared to play and wants to play.

Daniel Snyder comes in willing to give up at least a 2nd rounder possibly a 1st rounder for Green to go to Washington and run Saunders offense.

siberian khatru
09-18-2006, 04:22 PM
Absolutely. If our starting OTs mean we can only run 30% of our offense, might as well let Huard do it.

StcChief
09-18-2006, 04:22 PM
Nope. not going into rebuild mode yet.

siberian khatru
09-18-2006, 04:23 PM
Also, I think we should trade Tamba Hali for anything we can get. He's clearly a bust. Time to cut our losses.

cdcox
09-18-2006, 04:24 PM
It would depend on how many more years Green wanted to play. If this was his last season, yes. If he thought he wanted to play at least one more, probably not. Being without a viable solution a QB for one season is one thing, being in that situation for 2 years is another, especially when you have the option of someone like Trent Green.

Gonzo
09-18-2006, 04:24 PM
Under the following assumptions:

Chiefs come out and lose in week 4 to the 9ers and go 0-3. That would leave them having to go at least 10-3 to 11-2 in their final 16 games to make the playoffs(virtually impossible).
Trent Green is medically cleared to play and wants to play.

Daniel Snyder comes in willing to give up at least a 2nd rounder possibly a 1st rounder for Green to go to Washington and run Saunders offense.



Hey Nap....I found your crackpipe.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:26 PM
Hey Nap....I found your crackpipe.


Do you think it is crazy to give up Green for a top pick or do you think it is crazy to think that the Skins would give up a top pick for a old QB?

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 04:27 PM
No.

1. Green is a bit older, but is still a lower-mileage QB with several years left
2. Green is one of the best QBs in the game today. Given our past ability on 1st and 2nd round picks, we're better off keeping Green than drafting a bust.
3. Croyle MIGHT make a QB in the NFL, right now he's unproven.

Gonzo
09-18-2006, 04:30 PM
Do you think it is crazy to give up Green for a top pick or do you think it is crazy to think that the Skins would give up a top pick for a old QB?


Yes

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:31 PM
Yes

Thanks...That is what I thought also.

Bill Parcells
09-18-2006, 04:32 PM
Do you think it is crazy to give up Green for a top pick or do you think it is crazy to think that the Skins would give up a top pick for a old QB?
thats a rebuilding strategy..hypothetically..do you think the chiefs are really that bad???

kc rush
09-18-2006, 04:32 PM
For a first rounder yes.

We need to get young talent on offense. If we can get an extra first round pick and have another draft like we did this year, it would go a long way.

JBucc
09-18-2006, 04:33 PM
Yes for a first rounder

kc1977
09-18-2006, 04:37 PM
What a ridiculous poll, including jaded options that only serve your outcome. If you are going to post a poll, make it fair.

There is no indication that Green doesn't want to play another 2-3 years.

There is no indication that Brodie Croyle will ever amount to a hill of beans.

Carl Peterson has many faults, but I have to agree that unless you are able to draft the top 5 pick QB, you start the veteran QB and you also don't use pre-6th round draft picks on QBs (unless of course, it is a top 5). Having a first-day pick on the bench only brings out the whackos who give up on a season after an 0-2 start. Hell, even Gunther's teams rebounded from an 0-1 start one year to start 5-2 and an 0-2 start the next year to start 5-3.

The Dude Abides
09-18-2006, 04:39 PM
Doomsdayers. This season is very much still alive. That being said, no, no trade for Trent. Especially given how we draft.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:39 PM
thats a rebuilding strategy..hypothetically..do you think the chiefs are really that bad???


Unfortunately yes....If they go 0-3 I would put the odds at less than 10% of them going the needed 10-3 the rest of the way to have a shot at the playoffs. After this head shot I would be very surprised if Green wants to play beyond next year. So rather than be like our GM who had no contingency plan for our aging offensive line and got caught with his pants down I would make the move knowing that this year is shot if we go 0-3 and Green is unlikely to play after 2007.

StcChief
09-18-2006, 04:41 PM
For a first rounder yes.

We need to get young talent on offense. If we can get an extra first round pick and have another draft like we did this year, it would go a long way.

Croyle unproven is very true. Like to think QBoF but. Green is still one of the best in League and will be for 2 years.

O Linemen. young talent now.

Need a receiver if Gardner doesn't pan out.

a LT would be a high draft if folks are doubting Svitek as future LT.

LG/RG/C issues if current young talent doesn't step up.

I Don't think so at this point.

Bill Parcells
09-18-2006, 04:42 PM
Unfortunately yes....If they go 0-3 I would put the odds at less than 10% of them going the needed 10-3 the rest of the way to have a shot at the playoffs. After this head shot I would be very surprised if Green wants to play beyond next year. So rather than be like our GM who had no contingency plan for our aging offensive line and got caught with his pants down I would make the move knowing that this year is shot if we go 0-3 and Green is unlikely to play after 2007.
the only way I would trade green..would be if I could get brady quinn in the draft..then I would do it..other than that..I would keep him and see how you play with him before you unload him..

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 04:44 PM
if we are not going to be able to run a full offense with this offensive line then yes i'd trade Green for a 1st round pick.


put Croyle under center for the rest of the year so that our game plan fits our developing QB.

by the time we get our offensive line repaired, Croyle should be ready to go.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:44 PM
What a ridiculous poll, including jaded options that only serve your outcome. If you are going to post a poll, make it fair.

There is no indication that Green doesn't want to play another 2-3 years.

There is no indication that Brodie Croyle will ever amount to a hill of beans.

Carl Peterson has many faults, but I have to agree that unless you are able to draft the top 5 pick QB, you start the veteran QB and you also don't use pre-6th round draft picks on QBs (unless of course, it is a top 5). Having a first-day pick on the bench only brings out the whackos who give up on a season after an 0-2 start. Hell, even Gunther's teams rebounded from an 0-1 start one year to start 5-2 and an 0-2 start the next year to start 5-3.


The shocker of the year....the cerimonial poll whiner. Every poll gets one.


Green might want to play another 10 years but anyone with a brain knows the odds of anyone playing beyond age 38 is extremely rare and unlikely....To count on that just because he says he wants to would be foolish at best.

There is no indication on Brodie Croyle cause there is no indication on Brodie Croyle. So to have a valid poll on whether you would trade Trent Green I need to make up something completely unknown on Brodie Croyle? Huh....That is as silly as saying I'm only willing to trade a player for a draft pick if I know what player I will get in the draft and how good he will be.

Raiderhader
09-18-2006, 04:47 PM
Obviously, the smart business decision would be to do so. It is however a good thing I am not in charge, there is no way I'd do it.

If we should however, we damn well better not settle for anything less than a 1st. That's what we invested in him, that's what I'd demand we get in return.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:47 PM
the only way I would trade green..would be if I could get brady quinn in the draft..then I would do it..other than that..I would keep him and see how you play with him before you unload him..


If you get a 1st from Washington and you throw a rookie in Croyle on the field on a team that is already 0-3 I would say the odds of getting Quinn are really good if you want him. The 0-3 record with a rookie at the helm might get the pick you need anyway but regardless it will be a high pick and that combined with the Skins 1st rounder would be enough to get you up where you needed to be.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Why do we need to rebuild? We have a young RB in LJ and FB in Cruz (who has been doing decent). Parker is developing into a decent WR though it has taken some time. We need 2 tackles - If Welbourn comes back that would account for one of those - and a guard to replace Shields next year. I see spots that need to be upgraded, but I don't think we need to scrap everything and start over.

With all the attention the D has gotten, we can afford to put a little more emphasis on drafting and signing offense this next year. So no, I don't think we need to start selling off our stars for draft picks.


We have a D that is finally coming into it's own with a franchise RB at his peak, one of the best TEs to play the game in the twilight of his career, and we want to throw this and next season away, and maybe '08 too trying to rebuild because our O hasn't gotten on track yet? No thanks.


If Roaf had been able to play and Welbourn hadn't shot up, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:50 PM
If we should however, we damn well better not settle for anything less than a 1st. That's what we invested in him, that's what I'd demand we get in return.


True but we rode his 5 best years out of him and technically should be worth less now than 5 years ago now that he only realistically has 1-3 years left.

Raiderhader
09-18-2006, 04:53 PM
True but we rode his 5 best years out of him and technically should be worth less now than 5 years ago now that he only realistically has 1-3 years left.



5 years ago he was coming off a major knee injury and was pretty much an unknown. If we can give up a 1st for that, somebody else can give up a 1st for the second best passer in the league during that 5 year span. If they won't, they don't want him bad enough, and then we get to keep him. :)

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:54 PM
Why do we need to rebuild? We have a young RB in LJ and FB in Cruz (who has been doing decent). Parker is developing into a decent WR though it has taken some time. We need 2 tackles - If Welbourn comes back that would account for one of those - and a guard to replace Shields next year. I see spots that need to be upgraded, but I don't think we need to scrap everything and start over.
.


"All we need is just a starting guard and two tackles...."

You make it sound like pulling out 60% of an NFL starting offensive line out of thin air should be no problem. There are teams like the Cardinals that have been trying to find two or three solid OLineman for over a decade without success.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 04:55 PM
5 years ago he was coming off a major knee injury and was pretty much an unknown. If we can give up a 1st for that, somebody else can give up a 1st for the second best passer in the league during that 5 year span. If they won't, they don't want him bad enough, and then we get to keep him. :)


I think the thing that would be in our favor is that Snyder isn't afraid to overpay for what he thinks would be the final missing piece....so it isn't completely out of the question.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 04:55 PM
Why do we need to rebuild? We have a young RB in LJ and FB in Cruz (who has been doing decent). Parker is developing into a decent WR though it has taken some time. We need 2 tackles - If Welbourn comes back that would account for one of those - and a guard to replace Shields next year. I see spots that need to be upgraded, but I don't think we need to scrap everything and start over.

With all the attention the D has gotten, we can afford to put a little more emphasis on drafting and signing offense this next year. So no, I don't think we need to start selling off our stars for draft picks.


We have a D that is finally coming into it's own with a franchise RB at his peak, one of the best TEs to play the game in the twilight of his career, and we want to throw this and next season away, and maybe '08 too trying to rebuild because our O hasn't gotten on track yet? No thanks.


If Roaf had been able to play and Welbourn hadn't shot up, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

but all those things won't happen until next year ...... i think he means a "short rebuild"


just develop a QB while our line is down ...... grab a 1st round pick and go with a younger QB next year.

Raiderhader
09-18-2006, 04:57 PM
I think the thing that would be in our favor is that Snyder isn't afraid to overpay for what he thinks would be the final missing piece....so it isn't completely out of the question.


That is, of course, subjective. ;)

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 04:58 PM
"All we need is just a starting guard and two tackles...."

You make it sound like pulling out 60% of an NFL starting offensive line out of thin air should be no problem. There are teams like the Cardinals that have been trying to find two or three solid OLineman for over a decade without success.



And scrapping everything will get us those 2 tackles, a guard and all the skill positions we traded away for picks?

Otter
09-18-2006, 04:59 PM
For a first round draft pick, yes, I think it’s at least 2 years before this team has another shot at a Super Bowl run and given the concussion Trent may be a shot away from saying “later”.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 05:00 PM
but all those things won't happen until next year ...... i think he means a "short rebuild"


just develop a QB while our line is down ...... grab a 1st round pick and go with a younger QB next year.


exactly...this is a team that needs a QBOTF quickly as it is not the least bit crazy to think Green might shut it down after this season when he reflects on nearly getting his brained smeared to mush...

And the extra 1st rounder could go a long way in plugging one of the tackle holes....and if we find out that Croyle is the answer at QB then the other 1st rounder could plug another hole at WR, G or tackle. It would have a chance to build it back up with just one down year.....And considering the offense next year will almost certainly be the Herm conservative ball control/clock management style of offense it is not far fetched to think a 2nd year QB like Croyle could succeed in that...Much like Big Ben did in his 2nd year in that type of offense in Pitt.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 05:00 PM
And scrapping everything will get us those 2 tackles, a guard and all the skill positions we traded away for picks?

where did he say "scrap everything"?

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 05:02 PM
exactly...this is a team that needs a QBOTF quickly as it is not the least bit crazy to think Green might shut it down after this season when he reflects on nearly getting his brained smeared to mush...

And the extra 1st rounder could go a long way in plugging one of the tackle holes....and if we find out that Croyle is the answer at QB then the other 1st rounder could plug another hole at WR, G or tackle. It would have a chance to build it back up with just one down year.....And considering the offense next year will almost certainly be the Herm conservative ball control/clock management style of offense it is not far fetched to think a 2nd year QB like Croyle could succeed in that...Much like Big Ben did in his 2nd year in that type of offense in Pitt.
a calculated risk ......... if Croyle works out, then we have a chance to win big.

young defense
young QB
young RB
2 first round picks

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 05:02 PM
And scrapping everything will get us those 2 tackles, a guard and all the skill positions we traded away for picks?


I'm confused as to how trading a QB that is unlikely to play more than 1-2 years after this season constitutes "scrapping everything". Unless you think it is highly likely for the team to go 10-3 or better after a 0-3 start.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 05:03 PM
but all those things won't happen until next year ...... i think he means a "short rebuild"



With all the QBs we've been through, we should know that Pro Bowl QBs don't grow on trees either. Green in the best QB the Chiefs have had since I have been following them (and for 15 years before that). Yes, I'd rather have him than Montana at the level Montana was at when we got him.

I am impressed with Croyle too, but I'm not going to let 30-45 minutes worth of play in preseason against players that didn't even make rosters convince me that Croyle is good enough to step in and replace Green.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 05:07 PM
With all the QBs we've been through, we should know that Pro Bowl QBs don't grow on trees either. Green in the best QB the Chiefs have had since I have been following them (and for 15 years before that). Yes, I'd rather have him than Montana at the level Montana was at when we got him.

I am impressed with Croyle too, but I'm not going to let 30-45 minutes worth of play in preseason against players that didn't even make rosters convince me that Croyle is good enough to step in and replace Green.
that's why would should be playing Croyle while Green is hurt.


we get to find out more about Croyle ... how good he is.


we are already running a "rookie QB offense" .... might as well play the rookie instead a 10 year vet.


Naptown's senerio was based on when Green comes back ...... that should of given us 3 weeks to see Croyle play in live NFL action.


Herm knew what kind of offensive game plan he was calling ..... he should of played the rookie.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 05:07 PM
With all the QBs we've been through, we should know that Pro Bowl QBs don't grow on trees either. Green in the best QB the Chiefs have had since I have been following them (and for 15 years before that). Yes, I'd rather have him than Montana at the level Montana was at when we got him.

I am impressed with Croyle too, but I'm not going to let 30-45 minutes worth of play in preseason against players that didn't even make rosters convince me that Croyle is good enough to step in and replace Green.


If we could freeze father time and keep the 2005 version of Trent Green for another 5-10 years I would agree with you but unfortunately that isn't going to happen. Unlike our GM did with Roaf, he needs to wake up and have a contingency plan for Green as he will be announcing his retirement soon enough and could be much sooner than many expect. I'm guessing Croyle was Peterson's mild stab at trying to have a plan in place.

Skip Towne
09-18-2006, 05:08 PM
thats a rebuilding strategy..hypothetically..do you think the chiefs are really that bad???
My avatar will blow the doors off of your avatar.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 05:10 PM
that's why would should be playing Croyle while Green is hurt.


we get to find out more about Croyle ... how good he is.


we are already running a "rookie QB offense" .... might as well play the rookie instead a 10 year vet.


Naptown's senerio was based on when Green comes back ...... that should of given us 3 weeks to see Croyle play in live NFL action.


Herm knew what kind of offensive game plan he was calling ..... he should of played the rookie.


The one problem I see playing Croyle right now is I think he would really benifit from a year of just hitting the weights and bulking up a bit to help his durability. Those won't be College-level DL hitting them, they will be pros. With his past, I don't know how long he would last back there right now.

Bill Parcells
09-18-2006, 05:10 PM
My avatar will blow the doors off of your avatar.
oh yeah!!!

you dont have Steve Mcqueen driving your avatar though!!! ;)

Mr. Laz
09-18-2006, 05:14 PM
The one problem I see playing Croyle right now is I think he would really benifit from a year of just hitting the weights and bulking up a bit to help his durability. Those won't be College-level DL hitting them, they will be pros. With his past, I don't know how long he would last back there right now.
that's true, and in a perfect NFL season that's what would of happened.

but we are calling a game right now that is designed to eat clock and protect the QB.

it ain't gonna get much easier for a rookie QB than that.


if Croyle is good ..... we win big .... if Croyle sucks, then it doesn't really matter either way.

Logical
09-18-2006, 05:24 PM
I believe Trent is not going to fit Herm's offense and believe a trade would be in our best interest. Unfortunately you are not going to get a 1 or 2 for Trent.

kc1977
09-18-2006, 05:26 PM
So to have a valid poll on whether you would trade Trent Green I need to make up something completely unknown on Brodie Croyle?

No - a valid poll would have a choice of not trading Trent Green without having to also select that you believe that we will go 11-2 the rest of the year.

Someone can think that it is not a good idea to trade Trent Green and at the same time not think that we will go 11-2 when he comes back.

That, is the definition of a valid poll. There was NO valid option for said person.

You should be in the media and a I'm sure you're a liberal as well - this is their favored M.O.

Count Alex's Losses
09-18-2006, 05:35 PM
Absolutely not. For two reasons.

1. This is not Green's final year. He has stated he wants to play until he is 40. I think he could play another two years.

2. It would be a big slap in the face to the second-best quarterback this franchise has ever had. he has his roots here. We'd basically be telling "Thanks for all the touchdowns, Trent. Now get the **** out."

Count Alex's Losses
09-18-2006, 05:36 PM
I believe Trent is not going to fit Herm's offense

Herm doesn't HAVE an offense. Besides, Trent Green would fit ANY offense.

Raiderhader
09-18-2006, 05:38 PM
Herm doesn't HAVE an offense. Besides, Trent Green would fit ANY offense.



Trent is exactly what the offense needs, someone who will go ahead and take that shot down field if he sees it there. Trent will pull the trigger purely off of instinct, while another QB might be more prone to stay with in the scheme like he is supposed to.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 05:53 PM
I'm sure you're a liberal as well - .


I hope you are a lot better at talking football than you are at reading people....As the above statement brought out a pretty good belly laugh...I've been called a lot of things in my life but you get the honor of being the first to call me liberal. That is like calling GoChiefs Casanova.

NaptownChief
09-18-2006, 05:55 PM
Absolutely not. For two reasons.

1. This is not Green's final year. He has stated he wants to play until he is 40. I think he could play another two years.

2. It would be a big slap in the face to the second-best quarterback this franchise has ever had. he has his roots here. We'd basically be telling "Thanks for all the touchdowns, Trent. Now get the **** out."



Well have you talked to Trent about playing until 40 since he nearly had his brains turned into mush? His thoughts might have changed dramatically since putting himself and his family through that.

As for the slap in the face, with his playing days winding down I'm sure he wants a shot at a Super Bowl and he might want that trade if he believes he could lead them there.

Valiant
09-18-2006, 06:14 PM
I'm confused as to how trading a QB that is unlikely to play more than 1-2 years after this season constitutes "scrapping everything". Unless you think it is highly likely for the team to go 10-3 or better after a 0-3 start.


It worked for the patriots..

As much as I love trent being our QB, Shields will prolly retire after the year... Trent is waht 38??? If we could get a 1st for him I would be for it, it allows us an extra pick in the first to either add an OL or two, or maybe a legit WR...

Logical
09-18-2006, 06:15 PM
I hope you are a lot better at talking football than you are at reading people....As the above statement brought out a pretty good belly laugh...I've been called a lot of things in my life but you get the honor of being the first to call me liberal. That is like calling GoChiefs Casanova.Cmon Nap it gave me a belly laugh.

Logical
09-18-2006, 06:16 PM
Herm doesn't HAVE an offense. Besides, Trent Green would fit ANY offense.:rolleyes:

runnercyclist
09-18-2006, 06:25 PM
Yep