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Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 03:58 PM
I suggest you re-watch the game and just watch that guy the entire time...

He was a beast in the running game...

He was the prime reason the Broncos couldn't run the bootleg...he stayed at home and even made a big play on a WR reverse.

I think 95% of you are friggin' complete idiots.

Brock
09-18-2006, 04:00 PM
Well, this certainly merited another thread.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:04 PM
in fact, both ends had terrific games. Allen put pressure on Plummer on several occasion, batted down several balls, and played disciplined football.

and Brock, honestly dude, do you have nothing better to do than stalk my posts and tell me how pointless they are? Are you lonely dude? I'll hang out with you if you want. We can go to the park, you know, pack a little picnic, hold hands...I'M HERE FOR YOU MAN!

Brock
09-18-2006, 04:07 PM
Eh, I doubt I've posted anything toward you more than twice. If that's "stalking", you probably want to up your meds.

Easy 6
09-18-2006, 04:09 PM
It's good to see a little GOOD NATURED smack, not some sort of "DINVRDAN" horsesh*t.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:09 PM
Eh, I doubt I've posted anything toward you more than twice. If that's "stalking", you probably want to up your meds.
Dude seriously, I'll take you to the Olive Garden, we'll fill up on some never-ending breadsticks, I'll pick up the tab, we'll go back to your place, put in a little Mr. Deeds, and just "relax", ok guy!?

jidar
09-18-2006, 04:11 PM
You two should just hate **** to let it all out until the the slow build up explodes again.

I know you stay together for the kids.

jidar
09-18-2006, 04:12 PM
PS, Hali has been a player. Great pick.

Easy 6
09-18-2006, 04:13 PM
You both seem like decent dude's, cant we all just get along?.........well.....nah, f*ck it, go ahead, i'm SO bored!

Thig Lyfe
09-18-2006, 04:15 PM
Tamba pwns.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:15 PM
You two should just hate **** to let it all out until the the slow build up explodes again.

I know you stay together for the kids.
why do you think I offered Olive Garden?! Nothing gets me in the mood more than one of those fantastic never-ending pasta dishes!

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:16 PM
FOUR CHEESE MARINARA SPAGHETTI SAUCE! GOD! I'M WET! AND I'M A BOY!

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 04:16 PM
and Brock, honestly dude, do you have nothing better to do than stalk my posts and tell me how pointless they are? Are you lonely dude? I'll hang out with you if you want. We can go to the park, you know, pack a little picnic, hold hands...I'M HERE FOR YOU MAN!



What would he have done a few years back before Brock mellowed a bit? I remember being a nOOB and having the guy with the orange platform shoes in his avatar blasting away at me and others. He used to REALLY get under GoBo's skin.

Trust me, this Brock is much more reserved than the old Brock used to be.

:)


You still got those shoes Brock?

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:17 PM
But yeah, in all seriousness, after the last 3 or 4 years with Hicks, I can't believe any Chiefs fan is questioning the play thus far of Hali. Ridiculous.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:19 PM
pastormikh...

Here's my question to you, or this gobo you speak of:

(and I know this brock fella is certainly an INTERNET badass, I mean, WOW...)

BUT...

Wait, I forgot what I was talking about...give me a second.

beer bacon
09-18-2006, 04:23 PM
Why are 95% of us "friggin idiots?" Only about .1% of us think Hali has sucked so far.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 04:23 PM
Hootie, the BB in general used to be a lot tougher on the newer posters. Kind of like an initiation. If you couldn't take the smack you left. If you could, you eventually fit in - but you also had respect for those that were here before you after that. I had it light really being a Pastor, something about that kept some from taking shots.:)

donkhater
09-18-2006, 04:26 PM
I'll absolutely doubt Tamba Hali's ability to become a top pass rusher. Call me crazy, but that's what I want out of my defensive ends. He is good against the run and he's got a good motor. He's a nice guy to boot.

Sounds like Eric Hicks early in his career before G-Rob got a hold of him. It wasn't until then did anyone think Hicks couldn't handle the bootleg.

He just doesn't have the quickness or moves to push this defense to the next level, which includes creating turnovers regularly and pressuring the QB without blitzing. It's not his fault. He probably WAS the best option this offseason to improve the position on the team.

tommykat
09-18-2006, 04:28 PM
Hootie, the BB in general used to be a lot tougher on the newer posters. Kind of like an initiation. If you couldn't take the smack you left. If you could, you eventually fit in - but you also had respect for those that were here before you after that. I had it light really being a Pastor, something about that kept some from taking shots.:)

It did? Seems I recall something I said.....I about died when I found out that indeed you were a Pastor. At least we have a good friendship. :D

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 04:29 PM
I put this up in donkhater's thread concerning Hali but since it fits here and that thread is slipping off into oblivion, I'll repost here.

Hali has come in, been named starter, got 11 tackles - two less than Allen the team leader in tackles. He's around every play. He's been given a lot of responsibility with moving around the D-Line and has been rather effective IMO. Here's what the other picks in the first round have done. There are some D players that have out produced Hali, but NO D LINEMAN have put up better stats than Hali.

1 Mario Williams, DE Hou the first pick, only has 5 tackles and 0 sacks.
2 Reggie Bush RB, NO backup 72 yards rushing.
3 Vince Young QB Tenn rating of 58 and seen little PT behind Kerry Collins
4 Furgeson T Jets is at the bottom of the depth chart and played in 1 game
5 Hawk in GB has 12 tackles an no sacks at LB
6 Davis, TE for SF has 5 catches
7 Huff, S Oak, has 5 tackles
8 Witner, S Bills has 15 tackles 1 int
9 Sims LB Det 17 tackles
10 Leinhart, QB AR Hasn't seen the field
11 Cutler, QB Den Hasn't seen the field
12 Ngata DT Balt 0 tackles, 1 Int
13 Wimbly LB (DE in college) CLE Backup, 7 tackles, 1 int.
14 Bunkley DT Phi backup 3 tackles
15 Hill CB Rams Backup 4 tackles, 1 Int
16 Allen S Mia backup, hasn't done anything yet
17 Greenway LB Min - not even on depth chard. No game time
18 Carpenter LB Dallas. Backup, hasn't done anything yet
19 Comartie CB SD Backup, 3 tackles
20 Hali
21 Marony RB NE 151 yards rushing 1 td
22 Lawson LB SF 9 tackles 2 sacks
23 Joseph G TB hasn't seen the field
24 Joseph CB Cinci backup 5 tackles
25 Holmes WR Pit backup 1 catch for 5 yards (Pitts plays second game tonight)
26 McCargo DT Bills 1 backup 1 tackle
27 Williams RB Car backup 72 yards rushing
28 Lewis TE Jacksonville 3rd on dept no games (Plays 2nd game tonight)
29 Mangold C Jets 2 starts
30 Addai RB Ind Backup 108 yards rushing
31 Jennings CB Sea 3rd on depth chart 4 tackles
32 Kiwanuka DE Giants Backup 2 tackles

Skip Towne
09-18-2006, 04:32 PM
I'M A BOY!
Couldn't prove it by me.

Count Zarth
09-18-2006, 04:33 PM
We should have drafted Mathias Kiwanuka.

StcChief
09-18-2006, 04:34 PM
So Hali numbers so far....2 games 6 Tackles 5 Assists
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/412000

Skip Towne
09-18-2006, 04:35 PM
Hootie, the BB in general used to be a lot tougher on the newer posters. Kind of like an initiation. If you couldn't take the smack you left. If you could, you eventually fit in - but you also had respect for those that were here before you after that. I had it light really being a Pastor, something about that kept some from taking shots.:)
Yeah , that and the return fire.

donkhater
09-18-2006, 04:38 PM
I put this up in donkhater's thread concerning Hali but since it fits here and that thread is slipping off into oblivion, I'll repost here.

Hali has come in, been named starter, got 11 tackles - two less than Allen the team leader in tackles. He's around every play. He's been given a lot of responsibility with moving around the D-Line and has been rather effective IMO. Here's what the other picks in the first round have done. There are some D players that have out produced Hali, but NO D LINEMAN have put up better stats than Hali.

1 Mario Williams, DE Hou the first pick, only has 5 tackles and 0 sacks.
2 Reggie Bush RB, NO backup 72 yards rushing.
3 Vince Young QB Tenn rating of 58 and seen little PT behind Kerry Collins
4 Furgeson T Jets is at the bottom of the depth chart and played in 1 game
5 Hawk in GB has 12 tackles an no sacks at LB
6 Davis, TE for SF has 5 catches
7 Huff, S Oak, has 5 tackles
8 Witner, S Bills has 15 tackles 1 int
9 Sims LB Det 17 tackles
10 Leinhart, QB AR Hasn't seen the field
11 Cutler, QB Den Hasn't seen the field
12 Ngata DT Balt 0 tackles, 1 Int
13 Wimbly LB (DE in college) CLE Backup, 7 tackles, 1 int.
14 Bunkley DT Phi backup 3 tackles
15 Hill CB Rams Backup 4 tackles, 1 Int
16 Allen S Mia backup, hasn't done anything yet
17 Greenway LB Min - not even on depth chard. No game time
18 Carpenter LB Dallas. Backup, hasn't done anything yet
19 Comartie CB SD Backup, 3 tackles
20 Hali
21 Marony RB NE 151 yards rushing 1 td
22 Lawson LB SF 9 tackles 2 sacks
23 Joseph G TB hasn't seen the field
24 Joseph CB Cinci backup 5 tackles
25 Holmes WR Pit backup 1 catch for 5 yards (Pitts plays second game tonight)
26 McCargo DT Bills 1 backup 1 tackle
27 Williams RB Car backup 72 yards rushing
28 Lewis TE Jacksonville 3rd on dept no games (Plays 2nd game tonight)
29 Mangold C Jets 2 starts
30 Addai RB Ind Backup 108 yards rushing
31 Jennings CB Sea 3rd on depth chart 4 tackles
32 Kiwanuka DE Giants Backup 2 tackles

That may validate his selection, but it doesn't validate his ability.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:44 PM
We should have drafted Mathias Kiwanuka.
he did look real good in preseason...

But I think Tamba is going to be a good player.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:44 PM
Couldn't prove it by me.
are you implying we've fooled around?

Skip Towne
09-18-2006, 04:46 PM
are you implying we've fooled around?
No, I'm implying you're a whiny little bitch. Ooooh, Brock, stop picking on me.

Skip Towne
09-18-2006, 04:49 PM
Hootie, the BB in general used to be a lot tougher on the newer posters. Kind of like an initiation. If you couldn't take the smack you left. If you could, you eventually fit in - but you also had respect for those that were here before you after that. I had it light really being a Pastor, something about that kept some from taking shots.:)
Hey, Pastor, do you remember when Brock was arguing with some guy and the guy said he knew Karate (I think it was Denver Chief). Brock told him to bring his Chinese dancing ass on out to J5. Hahahaha

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:50 PM
No, I'm implying you're a whiny little bitch. Ooooh, Brock, stop picking on me.
So I invite the guy to Olive Garden and this is what I get in return?! **** it, I'm going to Olive Garden myself, requesting a table for 2, and then having my waiter feel bad for me when the mystery 2nd doesn't show, and then I'll make like the movies, go through several cocktails, and then finally ask for the check 3 hours later. BOOM! Sounds like a good Monday night to me!

penchief
09-18-2006, 04:50 PM
I'll absolutely doubt Tamba Hali's ability to become a top pass rusher. Call me crazy, but that's what I want out of my defensive ends. He is good against the run and he's got a good motor. He's a nice guy to boot.

Sounds like Eric Hicks early in his career before G-Rob got a hold of him. It wasn't until then did anyone think Hicks couldn't handle the bootleg.

He just doesn't have the quickness or moves to push this defense to the next level, which includes creating turnovers regularly and pressuring the QB without blitzing. It's not his fault. He probably WAS the best option this offseason to improve the position on the team.

Keep digging your hole. Barring injury, Hali will continue to develop quickly and he'll be the impact pass-rusher you want.

One thing I like about him that nobody mentions much is how he punishes people when he tackles them. He packs a lot of momentum into his tackles. Ball-carriers and quarterbacks tend to hit the ground fast and hard when he pops them. That can help wear an offense down, too.

donkhater
09-18-2006, 04:51 PM
We should have drafted Mathias Kiwanuka.
I like him, too. Too bad for him he's stuck behind two Pro-Bowlers. If he's got a good attitude and work ethic, he should be a good one.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:52 PM
Hey, Pastor, do you remember when Brock was arguing with some guy and the guy said he knew Karate (I think it was Denver Chief). Brock told him to bring his Chinese dancing ass on out to J5. Hahahaha
Wow, that's super hilarious!!!!!

****, maybe I'm too young to get 60 year old humor.

Count Zarth
09-18-2006, 04:53 PM
I bet I could kick Skip's ass.

Short Leash Hootie
09-18-2006, 04:56 PM
I bet I could kick Skip's ass.
You're ****ing kidding yourself! Back in 1934, skip used to do 15 sets of 225 on bench, run 20 miles to school (uphill), and once wrestled a live polar bear to the ground. He also feasts on live animals, which is why he often roams the local petting zoo. Sick, but crazy.

Raiderhader
09-18-2006, 04:56 PM
What would he have done a few years back before Brock mellowed a bit? I remember being a nOOB and having the guy with the orange platform shoes in his avatar blasting away at me and others. He used to REALLY get under GoBo's skin.

Trust me, this Brock is much more reserved than the old Brock used to be.

:)


You still got those shoes Brock?



I like the old Brock better.

The thing with Brock is that while many see him as an internet tough guy, he's no where near your typical ITG. Those people just run there mouths at you, pump themselves up, and some times even threaten you. Brock just degrades you, with but a line or two. That's it, no bravado, just a quick bitch slap.

donkhater
09-18-2006, 04:57 PM
Keep digging your hole. Barring injury, Hali will continue to develop quickly and he'll be the impact pass-rusher you want.

One thing I like about him that nobody mentions much is how he punishes people when he tackles them. He packs a lot of momentum into his tackles. Ball-carriers and quarterbacks tend to hit the ground fast and hard when he pops them. That can help wear an offense down, too.
How am I digging my hole? Will something bad happen to me if I turn out to be wrong?

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to eat crow on this subject. I'm just going by what my eyes (and not my heart) tells me. Go ahead and save the thread and bring it out when ever you want. If he gets double digit sacks this year (or even 7-8), I'll admit I was wrong. If he even has AVERAGE pass rush skills, he should get at least 7 or 8 as much as he'll be playing.

And I'll do it without resorting to name-calling like others feel they need to.

big nasty kcnut
09-18-2006, 05:06 PM
Brock is still a bad ass but he take his shots when it's open.

penchief
09-18-2006, 05:26 PM
How am I digging my hole? Will something bad happen to me if I turn out to be wrong?

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to eat crow on this subject. I'm just going by what my eyes (and not my heart) tells me. Go ahead and save the thread and bring it out when ever you want. If he gets double digit sacks this year (or even 7-8), I'll admit I was wrong. If he even has AVERAGE pass rush skills, he should get at least 7 or 8 as much as he'll be playing.

And I'll do it without resorting to name-calling like others feel they need to.

My reference to "digging a hole" was not meant to be derogatory. I was only commenting on how much effort you were putting into defending your opinion. Explaining your position is a good thing but disecting Hali's skills at this point can get sticky. And it can provide a lot of unnecessary ammunition for those "crow-eating" threads that always come later. That's all I meant.

By the way, I disagree with you completely. I think Hali's going to be a playmaker. And I think he's a potential impact player.

Sfeihc
09-18-2006, 05:41 PM
I suggest you re-watch the game and just watch that guy the entire time...

He was a beast in the running game...

He was the prime reason the Broncos couldn't run the bootleg...he stayed at home and even made a big play on a WR reverse.

I think 95% of you are friggin' complete idiots.


95%........don't you think that is kind of low? ROFL

Easy 6
09-18-2006, 05:54 PM
.....AND, welcome back to scott free's "LivingroomLegend's" and the Infamous Wall of "HUH?" , where our guest Hootie will take your call's, start off ok then disintegrate in a firestorm of self immolation................

L.A. Chieffan
09-18-2006, 06:01 PM
halis horrible. we should have drafted another punter

donkhater
09-18-2006, 06:03 PM
My reference to "digging a hole" was not meant to be derogatory. I was only commenting on how much effort you were putting into defending your opinion. Explaining your position is a good thing but disecting Hali's skills at this point can get sticky. And it can provide a lot of unnecessary ammunition for those "crow-eating" threads that always come later. That's all I meant.

By the way, I disagree with you completely. I think Hali's going to be a playmaker. And I think he's a potential impact player.
That's cool. You're entitled.

I suppose some people worry about crow-eating threads, but in the anonymous world of the internet, it's not really a big deal. As far as rep is concerned, I'm just giving my opinion. I overstated the title of the other thread 'Is Tamba Hali even on this team?', but I do agree he is a solid DE. I merely think he has a low ceiling for improvement and has been AWOL in the pass rush. Others voiced the same concern when he was drafted. So far all he's shown is to be an improvement over Hicks (which IS a relief) so I think people seem ready to take that next jump into thinking he'll become a game-changing force. There's nothing wrong with that. He'll play a long time. I just don't think he'll give the extra dimension this team needs.

penchief
09-18-2006, 06:27 PM
That's cool. You're entitled.

I suppose some people worry about crow-eating threads, but in the anonymous world of the internet, it's not really a big deal. As far as rep is concerned, I'm just giving my opinion. I overstated the title of the other thread 'Is Tamba Hali even on this team?', but I do agree he is a solid DE. I merely think he has a low ceiling for improvement and has been AWOL in the pass rush. Others voiced the same concern when he was drafted. So far all he's shown is to be an improvement over Hicks (which IS a relief) so I think people seem ready to take that next jump into thinking he'll become a game-changing force. There's nothing wrong with that. He'll play a long time. I just don't think he'll give the extra dimension this team needs.

I watched him at Penn State. It takes a lot to really impress me and he impressed me. What others say about him always being around the ball is true. He does have quickness and he combines that quickness with an array of moves and deceptive strength. He hits like a ton of bricks and he plays sideline to sideline. The more acclimated he gets to the pro game the more he will stand out, IMO.

I'll go out on a limb and say that he'll beat Allen's sack total for Jared's rookie season. I think he can still get 10 even though he doesn't have any yet.

PastorMikH
09-18-2006, 08:21 PM
That may validate his selection, but it doesn't validate his ability.



No, it tells me that there probably aren't any of the first rounders that would please you. There are only 3 guys on that list with more tackles than Hali and they weren't available at 20. They were also 2 LBs and a safety - positions we are pretty solid at.

Shoot, everyone is drooling over Meriman in SD and wishing we had gotten him instead of DJ (which would have been hard to do since he wasn't on the Board when we picked). He didn't get his first sack until the 5th week of the season and had less tackles at that point than Hali.

How many people would flip out with ecstasy if we were to trade for Julius Peppers? In his first 4 games as a rookie DE (2nd pick in 2002 draft) he had 10 tackles, 3 sacks that all came against Detroit - Even Hicks could get 3 sacks against Detroit.


My point is, to be disappointed in him right now after just 2 games into his rookie season is a bit premature. Right now he's doing better than a number of Vet DEs playing today. Give the guy a chance.

I wonder, if we had a BB in 89 how many people would be complaining about DT after his first game or two.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2006, 09:57 PM
Tamba is going to be a very good DE. Possible pro-bowler but at very least a very good red chip player.

NJ Chief Fan
09-18-2006, 11:50 PM
Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya Hali Kumbaya

DenverDanChiefsFan
09-19-2006, 06:14 AM
It's good to see a little GOOD NATURED smack, not some sort of "DINVRDAN" horsesh*t.This is great - already talking about me - must be love.

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 07:36 AM
I'll absolutely doubt Tamba Hali's ability to become a top pass rusher. Call me crazy, but that's what I want out of my defensive ends. He is good against the run and he's got a good motor. He's a nice guy to boot.

Sounds like Eric Hicks early in his career before G-Rob got a hold of him. It wasn't until then did anyone think Hicks couldn't handle the bootleg.

He just doesn't have the quickness or moves to push this defense to the next level, which includes creating turnovers regularly and pressuring the QB without blitzing. It's not his fault. He probably WAS the best option this offseason to improve the position on the team.

You're not crazy.

You're stupid.

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 07:39 AM
I like him, too. Too bad for him he's stuck behind two Pro-Bowlers. If he's got a good attitude and work ethic, he should be a good one.

You think Hali is "average" but you like Kiwi?

ROFL

JohnnyV13
09-19-2006, 08:53 AM
why do you think I offered Olive Garden?! Nothing gets me in the mood more than one of those fantastic never-ending pasta dishes!

Brokeback Planet?

Chris Meck
09-19-2006, 09:18 AM
Hali is NOT awol in the pass rush. Have you not noticed that in both games, the opposition-
a)used almost entirely short drops/quick passes (which pretty well make a sack nigh on impossible
b)heavier protection schemes with less people in the pattern
c)were unable to bootleg or sweep with much effectiveness

Hali is doing just fine. You don't roll up huge sack numbers on 3 and five step drops. Even on those plays, we're getting some pops on the QB.

Count Zarth
09-19-2006, 09:40 AM
Hali vs other 1st-round defensive ends:

Hali - 11 tackles, 1 for loss

Mario Williams - 5 tackles

Mathias Kiwanuka - 1 tackle

Kamerion Wimbley - 7 tackles, 2 for loss, 1 sack

Manny Lawson - 9 tackles, 1 for loss, 2 sacks

Hound333
09-19-2006, 09:43 AM
I think 95% of you are friggin' complete idiots.


95% of who? I saw like two people slamming him. The 95% were defending.

donkhater
09-19-2006, 09:56 AM
95% of who? I saw like two people slamming him. The 95% were defending.
Slamming him? Hardly. I've even come around to admit that he was probably the best option for the team to upgrade at the position.

I've been discussing his potential based on the talent that I've seen so far. No one here knows what his potential can be anymore than I do. So how are you all right and I'm wrong? I happen to think he won't develop into a top-flight pass rusher because he has a slow first step and is smallish. While he certainly is an upgrade over Hicks and plays hard, he isn't providing the defense with what it needs badly. A edge rusher than can pressure the QB so that Gunther doesn't have to call a blitz every freakin' time.

Some have suggested that the DT's aren't collasping the pocket well enough and that once we upgrade there, his skills can be better utilized. A valid argument. But mainly posters are just name-calling defensively without even considering the possiblity that Hali will be limted in this area of his game. And it IS a possibility.

Sure he's early in his career. I'm sure he'll post sacks this year. But I don't see how anyone can watch him play and think he has the pass rushing talent of an elite player.

Count Zarth
09-19-2006, 10:02 AM
I don't see how anyone can watch him play and think he has the pass rushing talent of an elite player.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6327/halisackas8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 10:07 AM
Slamming him? Hardly. I've even come around to admit that he was probably the best option for the team to upgrade at the position.

I've been discussing his potential based on the talent that I've seen so far. No one here knows what his potential can be anymore than I do. So how are you all right and I'm wrong? I happen to think he won't develop into a top-flight pass rusher because he has a slow first step and is smallish. While he certainly is an upgrade over Hicks and plays hard, he isn't providing the defense with what it needs badly. A edge rusher than can pressure the QB so that Gunther doesn't have to call a blitz every freakin' time.

Some have suggested that the DT's aren't collasping the pocket well enough and that once we upgrade there, his skills can be better utilized. A valid argument. But mainly posters are just name-calling defensively without even considering the possiblity that Hali will be limted in this area of his game. And it IS a possibility.

Sure he's early in his career. I'm sure he'll post sacks this year. But I don't see how anyone can watch him play and think he has the pass rushing talent of an elite player.

In other words, you've bought into the idea that workouts in shorts and tee's is more important than what a guy does on the field...

donkhater
09-19-2006, 11:04 AM
In other words, you've bought into the idea that workouts in shorts and tee's is more important than what a guy does on the field...
What's he done on the field that should change the opinion that I've stated? Beat a backup tackle in a preseason game?

On the contrary, look at his college 'highlights'. Watch the game (as you all insist I didn't). His pass rush skills are weak.

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 11:30 AM
What's he done on the field that should change the opinion that I've stated? Beat a backup tackle in a preseason game?

On the contrary, look at his college 'highlights'. Watch the game (as you all insist I didn't). His pass rush skills are weak.

I don't have to watch his "highlights" because I watched him play in college.

THAT is what he's done on the field. You said yourself that he was too short and too slow. You didn't want to talk about his production.

At some point you're gonna have to turn around and run, because this backpedaling has got to be hard on you.

donkhater
09-19-2006, 11:49 AM
I don't have to watch his "highlights" because I watched him play in college.

THAT is what he's done on the field. You said yourself that he was too short and too slow. You didn't want to talk about his production.

At some point you're gonna have to turn around and run, because this backpedaling has got to be hard on you.
College production? I guess that's why David Klingler, Andre Ware and Danny Wuerful are all on pace for the HOF, right? No? QB's not relevent to the discussion? How about Andre Wadsworth, Courtney Brown or Jamal Reynolds? Surely their college production had them on the fast track to NFL stardom, didn't it? It didn't? Hmmmmmm

greg63
09-19-2006, 11:51 AM
Hootie, it's been suggested that you and GoChiefs are one in the same. Is this true??

Count Zarth
09-19-2006, 11:58 AM
NO.

DJ_is_the_realdeal
09-19-2006, 12:00 PM
Hali is going to be a player and just think how tough this Defense would be if we would of drafted John Henderson instead of Sims!

greg63
09-19-2006, 12:01 PM
NO.

LMAO

I know dude; I was just ribbin Hootie.

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 12:07 PM
College production? I guess that's why David Klingler, Andre Ware and Danny Wuerful are all on pace for the HOF, right? No? QB's not relevent to the discussion? How about Andre Wadsworth, Courtney Brown or Jamal Reynolds? Surely their college production had them on the fast track to NFL stardom, didn't it? It didn't? Hmmmmmm

For every Courtney Brown, there's a Reggie Hayward.

Keep backpedaling, but make sure to look behind you...you're gonna trip...

donkhater
09-19-2006, 12:18 PM
For every Courtney Brown, there's a Reggie Hayward.

Keep backpedaling, but make sure to look behind you...you're gonna trip...
Oh, Darn. You got me with that zinger. How will I ever counter?

Hey, he's a solid, average player. He fills a gapping hole at RDE where this team has been blind ofr a long time. He's a hard worker and got his head on straight. The defense will be better for it. He just doesn't give this defense what it sorely needs. Especially now since the offense is struggling. Turnovers and QB pressure give teams short fields. This KC defense does not have that dimension.

Am I mistaken or have other threads been started addressing this concern about the defense? How the only way we're able to get pressure is from the blitz or if the QB is stupid enough to hold onto the ball for 6 seconds? Is Tamba immune from analysis/criticism because he's a rookie or just becuase he's better than what was there before?

PastorMikH
09-19-2006, 12:23 PM
Hali vs other 1st-round defensive ends:

Hali - 11 tackles, 1 for loss

Mario Williams - 5 tackles

Mathias Kiwanuka - 1 tackle

Kamerion Wimbley - 7 tackles, 2 for loss, 1 sack

Manny Lawson - 9 tackles, 1 for loss, 2 sacks]



Actually, Lawson is playing LB at San Fran which would help him with sacks if he's being sent on a blitz.

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 12:35 PM
Oh, Darn. You got me with that zinger. How will I ever counter?

Hey, he's a solid, average player. He fills a gapping hole at RDE where this team has been blind ofr a long time. He's a hard worker and got his head on straight. The defense will be better for it. He just doesn't give this defense what it sorely needs. Especially now since the offense is struggling. Turnovers and QB pressure give teams short fields. This KC defense does not have that dimension.

Am I mistaken or have other threads been started addressing this concern about the defense? How the only way we're able to get pressure is from the blitz or if the QB is stupid enough to hold onto the ball for 6 seconds? Is Tamba immune from analysis/criticism because he's a rookie or just becuase he's better than what was there before?

We don't have this magical pass rush you mentioned, yet we somehow managed to play better defense in 2 games this year than in almost any game the last few years.

All without this magical pass rush.

1) You're overestimating the power of a good pass rush and turnovers. We had EXACTLY what you wanted in 2003 and we all saw how well that worked.

2) You're underestimating the power of Allen and Hali.

Hali is not immune from criticism. He's immune from INVALID criticism.

donkhater
09-19-2006, 01:12 PM
We don't have this magical pass rush you mentioned, yet we somehow managed to play better defense in 2 games this year than in almost any game the last few years.

All without this magical pass rush.

1) You're overestimating the power of a good pass rush and turnovers. We had EXACTLY what you wanted in 2003 and we all saw how well that worked.

2) You're underestimating the power of Allen and Hali.

Hali is not immune from criticism. He's immune from INVALID criticism.
1. The run defense is light years better than in 2003. What did we give up, 5.5 yards per carry? The back seven talent has improved tremendously as well. For every interception or sack this defense gave up 2-3 pas plays over 30 yards. Sure, they got turnovers, but they couldn't stop anyone. That was less important since the offense was so dominant.

Now that the offense is going to struggle to move the ball, the defense is going to have to get the ball back in good field position. The elite defenses do this.

2. I am not underestimating them. I wouldn't put them in the top ten defensive end combos in the league. You could nit-pick until the cows come home where they fall in the next 10 or 12 spots. They are average. They are not minced meat. But they are average and since that's light years better than the crap that's been here for a while, I guess people will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Deberg_1990
09-19-2006, 01:18 PM
.

All without this magical pass rush.



A nice pass rush would have forced Plummer into some more bad throws towards the end of the game when he actually doing a decent job of moving the ball. But i cant complain much. This D is lightyears ahead of where it used to be. To hold a team like Denver to ZERO TD's in their own house is damn near remarkable.

Warrior5
09-19-2006, 01:19 PM
69 posts, and I've yet to see the obligatory:




KEEP %$#*ING DOUBTING TAMBA %$#*ING HALI!!!

Inspector
09-19-2006, 01:59 PM
No, it tells me that there probably aren't any of the first rounders that would please you. There are only 3 guys on that list with more tackles than Hali and they weren't available at 20. They were also 2 LBs and a safety - positions we are pretty solid at.

Shoot, everyone is drooling over Meriman in SD and wishing we had gotten him instead of DJ (which would have been hard to do since he wasn't on the Board when we picked). He didn't get his first sack until the 5th week of the season and had less tackles at that point than Hali.

How many people would flip out with ecstasy if we were to trade for Julius Peppers? In his first 4 games as a rookie DE (2nd pick in 2002 draft) he had 10 tackles, 3 sacks that all came against Detroit - Even Hicks could get 3 sacks against Detroit.


My point is, to be disappointed in him right now after just 2 games into his rookie season is a bit premature. Right now he's doing better than a number of Vet DEs playing today. Give the guy a chance.

I wonder, if we had a BB in 89 how many people would be complaining about DT after his first game or two.


Great post!

Easy 6
09-19-2006, 02:08 PM
The secretive, elusive and ever deadly Warrior5 check's in from DEEP behind enemy line's. Here's to hoping for Sit-Rep on the Forty-Whiner's game................................Godspeed

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 03:29 PM
1. The run defense is light years better than in 2003. What did we give up, 5.5 yards per carry? The back seven talent has improved tremendously as well. For every interception or sack this defense gave up 2-3 pas plays over 30 yards. Sure, they got turnovers, but they couldn't stop anyone. That was less important since the offense was so dominant.

Now that the offense is going to struggle to move the ball, the defense is going to have to get the ball back in good field position. The elite defenses do this.

2. I am not underestimating them. I wouldn't put them in the top ten defensive end combos in the league. You could nit-pick until the cows come home where they fall in the next 10 or 12 spots. They are average. They are not minced meat. But they are average and since that's light years better than the crap that's been here for a while, I guess people will give them the benefit of the doubt.

The single biggest reason the run defense has improved so much the first 2 games of this season -- TAMBA HALI.

Count Zarth
09-19-2006, 03:43 PM
I think the new DTs have made a difference, too. I've seen Edwards getting some good penetration a couple times, and of course Reed already has 10 freaking tackles. That's about what Sims and Dalton got in one year.

htismaqe
09-19-2006, 03:44 PM
I think the new DTs have made a difference, too. I've seen Edwards getting some good penetration a couple times, and of course Reed already has 10 freaking tackles. That's about what Sims and Dalton got in one year.

COMBINED.

Count Zarth
09-19-2006, 03:45 PM
The other thing that will make us better is competition. Page got Knight benched last week....Knight played better this week.